BS: Don Imus replacment

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:20 PM

For a laugh that in a way is related to that last point, check this out: White Chicks & Gang Signs.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:15 PM

Can't argue with that. BUT - that boot in the ass has to come from your sister (or "sista", as the case may be). Or one of your brothers with a harder kick.

There is a problematic twist to all this - which is that, from what I understand, it is largely "white kids from the suburbs" that are funding the rap music industry. There are wheels within wheels here ...

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:05 PM

This idea that "I can call them that because they call each other that" is just a weasly excuse for using, or tacitly approving of, offensive and demeaning language.

I didn't say that. But when African-American rap artists and comedians use this sort of rhetoric in a public forum to describe women, and particularly black women, in this way, they are dragging this language and these attitudes out of a dank cellar and into public domain. Hell no I don't condone it! But I think for a guy like Don Imus to say what he did, be called on the carpet for it, issue a public apology, appear on the Reverend Al Sharpton's radio show to do penance, and promise never to do such a thing again...well, to me that should get the public's attention as some sort of atonement.
Then when Busta Rhymes makes a similar statement, he gets repeat airplay on BET and a substantial financial reward? Let's hear Busta issue a public apology, appear on Oprah, and promise never to do it again! Am I the only one who thinks that would be REAL progress?

Let's turn it around...Just because you can't call my sister a red-headed bitch in public, do I have the right to do it? The very least I should get from doing that is your righteous disdain and a boot in the ass from my sister.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:00 PM

" ... references to historical lynching ... "

To elaborate: maybe "historical", but not ANCIENT history - this stuff was going on within the lifetimes of many if not most of us on this forum. Think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 09:09 PM

Here's the link to that column and that comment:

http://www.alternet.org/columnists/story/50407/#comments

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Azizi
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 09:07 PM

See this excerpt of a column written by African American writer Earl Ofari Hutchinson:

"Imus Got His Trash Talk Pass Yanked, Now Yank it for Blacks Who Talk The Same

By Earl Ofari Hutchinson, New America Media. Posted April 10, 2007.

.. [rappers'] contempt reinforces the slut image of black women and sends the message that violence, mistreatment, and verbal abuse of black women are socially acceptable.

Despite lawsuits, protests and boycotts by women's groups, gangster-themed films and rap music continue to soar in popularity. Hollywood and the record companies rake in small fortunes off of them, and so do the rappers.

...enter shock jock Don Imus. He's the latest white guy to be transformed into a racially and gender incorrect punching bag for his Michael Richardsesque racial and gender tirade against a group of young black women. He, of course, has been verbally mugged, battered, abused, and momentarily dumped from his radio and TV show.

Imus has genuflected, no groveled, to the Reverend Al Sharpton, civil rights leaders, the Rutgers women's basketball team, begging forgiveness. Imus certainly deserves the kick in the shins that he's getting. In his very public self-flagellation, even he admitted that he rocketed way past the line of what even by the raunchy and low road standards of shock jockism is considered acceptable.

But again, Imus, as a white man that spewed racial bile, is the softest of soft targets. The same can't be said for the black rap shock jocks. They made Imus possible. They gave him the rappers bad housekeeping seal of approval to bash and trash black women".

-snip-

Fwiw, I very much agree with these comments.

See also this comment written in response to Hutchinson's column:

"Earl Misses-- Again!
Posted by: sincere on Apr 11, 2007 11:59 AM   

...When Michael Richards made his N-word comment, the media (and our guy Earl) focused on his use of the "n-word." What was often glossed over, were Richards references to historical lynching and even sodomy/mutiliation of black males (a time honored ritual in white racial violence). So the context is lost, and it quickly degenerates into a typical white apologist (and their black allies) stance of, "well blacks use it!" Never mind that the n-word is a white racist creation tied to black degredation, slavery, death, rape, oppression etc. and that its continued use by blacks reflects this toll this tormented legacy has on the psyche. Instead, by leaving out Richards allusions to historical real-life racial violence that is synonymous to the n-word, Earl and the mainstream media treated us to a side-show of "it's black people's fault for using it."

In this case, Imus is called to the carpet for using "nappy headed-hos." And as quickly as someone can say FOX News, white apologists were out en masse screamin bloody murder at the hypocrisy of black use of the term "ho" in music, etc. And Earl continues in this. What he and the media leave out, is the lager context of Imus's statements. Right after this offense comment, his guest McGuirk alludes that the Rutgers women are "Jigaboos" going up against "Wanabees" from the Spike Lee film School Daze (which they mistake for Do The Right Thing). And he and others and Imus go on to talk about the lack of femininity of the Rutgers players.

Of course, this larger context brings up an entirely different angle...that what we have here are several white men indulging in an age old intersection of sexism and racism that posits that black women are either sexually exotic or physically unattractive--at least in comparison to white women. The use of the term "Jigaboo" is probably more offensive than the "nappy headed hos." But it's left on the media cutting room floor. And so the conversation is simplified into, "well don't rappers use ho' too?" Because the white apologists (and Earl) would have a hard time talking about the use of "Jigaboo" in rap music.

So here we are, having a simple argument, because the media is lazy--or willfully lazy--and it seems, so is Earl".

-snip-

For what it's worth, I also very much agree with these comments.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Amos
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 08:46 PM

MSNBC Says It Will Drop Imus Show

The cable network said on Wednesday that it will no longer
simulcast Don Imus's radio program.

Read More: http://www.nytimes.com/?emc=na

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 08:35 PM

To quote that Lonesome EJ further up the thread: "If I hear you and your brother referring to your sister as a red-headed bitch over and over again, and neither you nor she seem to take it as an insult, there is only one thing that prohibits me using the same term : I'm not a member of your family."

We can all understand that. Insomuch as these objectionable terms and language are used by Black people to and about Black people (primarily), then it's within the family ... This idea that "I can call them that because they call each other that" is just a weasly excuse for using, or tacitly approving of, offensive and demeaning language.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 08:26 PM

I would be happy if these goons listened to (C)rap with headphones.

Blasting their hate-speach in my face at 120 dB should be grounds for justifiable homocide.

Many old people live in poor areas and cannot afford to move. They are subjected to (C)rap as a form of sonic assault and suffer health problems from the stress. Loud rhythmic thumping noise can also induce irregular heart beat in some people.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 08:07 PM

Good people who are honestly concerned about the use of racist and miscegenist slang terms shouldn't just rest on their laurels after forcing Don Imus into losing his job. The following is a list of companies who sell and sponsor such slander for profit on a daily basis. Why not demand they drop these terms? Better yet, because of the depth of their past transgressions, demand the resignation of their CEOs!

Def Jam (4)
dir.yahoo.com/.../Rap_and_Hip_Hop/Def_Jam

Stones Throw Records
Featuring hip-hop artists from the Bay Area and beyond, including Peanut Butter Wolf, Rasco, Lootpack, and Rob Swift.
www.stonesthrow.com

Roc-A-Fella Records
Jay-Z's label, frontin' artists such as Jigga himself, Kanye West, Memphis Bleek, DJ Clue, and more.
www.rocafella.com

Hieroglyphics Imperium Records
Featuring underground hip-hop artists including Casual and Del Tha Funky Homosapien.
www.hieroglyphics.com

Definitive Jux
Rap and hip-hop label. Features news, audio and video clips, artist and tour information, and more.
www.definitivejux.net

Bad Boy Records (3)
dir.yahoo.com/.../Rap_and_Hip_Hop/Bad_Boy_Records

Rhymesayers Entertainment (3)
dir.yahoo.com/.../Rap_and_Hip_Hop/Rhymesayers_Entertainment

Shady Records (2)
dir.yahoo.com/.../Rap_and_Hip_Hop/Shady_Records

Quannum Projects
Artists include Lyrics Born, Lateef, Gift of Gab, and Blackalicious.
www.quannum.com

Jive Records
Home to contemporary pop, R&B, and hip-hop artists.
www.jiverecords.com

Cash Money Records
Hip-hop record label.
www.cashmoney-records.com

Loud Records
Features artists such as the X-ecutioners, Big Pun, Funkmaster Flex, Mobb Deep, Xzibit, and more.
www.loud.com

Aftermath Music
Featuring artists such as Dr. Dre, Eminem, Busta Rhymes, 50 Cent, and Ice Cube.
www.aftermathmusic.com

Star Trak Entertainment (3)
dir.yahoo.com/.../Rap_and_Hip_Hop/Star_Trak_Entertainment

Giant Step
Concert/event promoter, record label, and marketing company reaching out to DJs and tastemakers.
www.giantstep.net

Groove Attack Productions (GAP)
Hip hop, future soul, and nu jazz. Artists include Karma, Cali Agents, and Vikter Duplaix.
www.grooveattack.com

Bomb Hip Hop
B-boyin', turntablism, aerosol art, MCing, beatboxing, and more.
www.bombhiphop.com

Duck Down Entaprizez
Home of the Boot Camp Clik, featuring Buckshot (formerly of Black Moon), Cocoa Brovaz (formerly Smif-n-Wessun), Heltah Skeltah, and O.G.C.
www.duckdown.com

Murder Inc. Records
Home of artists such as Caddillac Tah, Ja Rule, and Ashanti.
www.murderincrecords.com

Battleaxe Records
Canadian label with artists such as Swollen Members, Moka Only, Buck Fifty, Mr.Brady, and Abstract Rude.
www.battleaxerecords.com

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 07:40 PM

Alright! A conspiracy theory! I knew there was one thing this thread lacked!

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: pdq
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 07:37 PM

There is more here than meets the eye.

A few years ago, Imus was invited to speak at a banquet for Bill and Hillary Clinton.

Imus pulled no puches. Clinton was not happy. Clinton never forgets and never fails to draw blood when it's 'payback time'.

The last thing the Hillbilly Mob needs is Imus making fun of them during next year's presidential election. Hillary believes the nomination is hers for the taking.

Imus had to go. They just waited until he said something the could blow into an incident. The Clintons, Jesse, Sharpton and the news media allies were ready to pounce. Clinton-style character assasination at it's finest.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: kendall
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 07:22 PM

MSNBC canned him Good.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,282RA
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 05:56 PM

There's no censorship is Imus is banned from radio as long as it is not government mandated. If the individual station owners simply decide to ban him, it is their right to do so and it is perfectly legal and constitutional.

But should they? I don't know or care. It's up to them.

What I don't get is why Imus even apologized at all. Why? He's never apologized before. I listened to one of his shows and it was appalling. This was several years ago. I heard several comments that I couldn't believe no one complained about. Now all the sudden he's humble and apologetic.

Maybe his station came down on him but they'd only do that if he wasn't garnering a listenership. But I would think they'd just cancel his show instead trying to turn into the Mr. Humility Show.

Maybe all his years of pandering to a racist audience (I can't imagine who else would listen to it on a constant basis) caught up to him. I don't know.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 05:20 PM

No one's saying to throw this guy in jail - they're just saying, Fire his ass. There's a difference. His employers will keep their eye on the bottom-line - if it looks like they'll lose enough advertising dollars, they'll fire him. If it doesn't, they'll keep him, and enjoy the free publicity.

If he gets fired, he can go stand on a soapbox in the park and have all the free speech he wants.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 05:12 PM

Ban Imus from radio? Go ahead! You can pressure anyone to do anything you want them to do. But government censorship is NOT the answer. Bruce is right on this one. Like the wiretapping of phone lines, many consider censorship perfectly fine as long as the target is others. The problem is that a government can apply those powers as they see fit : To solve crimes, control racist behavior, or repress dissent and religious or other freedoms.
You want Imus to lose his job, you use what's known as a boycott. You don't listen to him, you picket his studio, you refuse to buy his advertised products. But anyone who says the law should be applied in this case is way off base, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:45 PM

"He wrote something stupid, a bunch of words that say something we don't agree with. It's only words and ideas, it's not like he beat someone up, he's not committing violence or hurting people, he's simply saying something offensive that we do not want to hear because we don't like it. If we suppress ideas we don't like, the proponents of those ideas will probably fester in secret societies and explode in double-plus ungood ways and we will like those results even less. If we allow people to see their ideas, and we ignore them, they've had their chance and they don't have to feel cheated about not getting exposure. Or if we really don't like their ideas and really need to keep them from convincing other people to believe in them, the answer is to tell people why and they'll learn. But you can't just beat people up because you dislike their stupid opinion. If we go that route, then anyone who is willing to use force can suppress any opinion they don't like, and maybe support opinions we don't like. Then what you get is a society of brutality where it isn't the best ideas that are seen by others, it's only the ideas that have the most vicious thugs to back them up. And it becomes very hard for people to be willing to express any opinion if someone can just pop them one because they say something someone else doesn't like." - Supervisor 246 in Paul Robinson's Instrument of God.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:43 PM

"I am all for stifling free speech in this case and others I can think of."

The problem is that it is NOT the cases YOU can think of that will be stiffled- or if so, there will be those you agree with that are stifled as well.


"The price of freedom of religion, or of speech, or of the press, is that we must put up with a good deal of rubbish." Robert H. Jackson


"The principle of free thought is not free thought for those who agree with us but freedom for the thought we hate." US Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes in United States v. Schwimmer (1929).

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:25 PM

There is something missing in what I have heard and read...well, gee these women are obviously scholars and athletes so obviously it is incorrect to call them that...yeah...well, it is bad to call anyone that, including women who might be doing that to make money. They have lives of horror, beatings, risk of disease..make that guarantee of disease...disgusting men....it's not a life that should be made fun of or used to intimidate or insult other women with...and what it has done to the athletes is the tip of the iceberg...what it does to young teens and children is the worst of it. What it does to older people of a more respectable behavioral mindset having to hear that sort of thing on the bus, in public spaces, on public airways is horrible.

I am all for stifling free speech in this case and others I can think of. I think there should be laws, and when there are, people like Imus should be fired. For now let him twist in the wind. This is a phrase, or a word, that should be cut out of polite society forever and no apologies or explanations made for its use...mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Charley Noble
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:20 PM

Perhaps, what is best is to let the Rutgers women basketball team have the final verdict on what to do with Don Imus. He plans to meet with them. Maybe they'll be more humane they he was, or maybe they'll use him as a target for free-throw practice.

Racist and sexist statements should disqualify someone from the broadcasting business. I'm surprised that some here seem to consider it "free speech" and therefore protected from punishment.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: beardedbruce
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 04:07 PM

From today's Washington Post:

Let the Idiocy Be Heard

By Michael Meyers
Wednesday, April 11, 2007; Page A15

Defending Don Imus's on-air racial idiocy is impossible -- but defending free speech, even in the form of sick humor, ought to be considered anew in the wake of a storm of protest from censorious activists who are demanding that Imus be fired.

There is an audience out there that is hungry for the ribald and the offensive. It is an audience that will not go away and cannot be boycotted. Does labeling those listeners and the shock jocks they adore and emulate as racial dunces or "un-American," and making the shock jocks unemployable (for daring to say what they think), advance the dialogue about racism or sexism? I don't think so.

Ours is supposed to be a nation that prides itself on free speech -- let a thousand tongues wag, we say, and the truth will be uncovered. But the censors and activists who are so readily offended by idiocy on radio have discovered still another truth: that the First Amendment does not apply to radio shock jocks. And so they want the advertisers and networks to ban the I-Man and toss him off the air. They don't want to hear from Imus, and they don't want anybody else to hear him, either. If the censors and pressure groups succeed, what will become of our culture of free speech, especially with such gabbers as Al Sharpton curiously demanding action from the FCC?

There ought to be no sympathy in any quarter for any shock jock's racial prejudice, but there has to be room for apologies that are offered in earnest. Moreover, there ought to be space on radio for dialogue and for racial impoliteness, too. When a radio shock jock makes a quip that offends, that's no surprise. There is no captive, fragile audience or hostile environment such as the workplace or schoolhouse to worry about -- just the robust radio world, full of gabbers, some of whom want to be taken seriously, some of whom try frantically to use words simply to entertain -- and who screw up -- and others who use satire and devil's-advocacy to push us to think. Besides, what's to distinguish Don Imus from the haters on black talk radio who regularly praise and play Louis Farrakhan tapes?

If we prize freedom, we should let the radio talkers talk. Let them be perfectly understood, and let the pressure groups answer when the talkers veer off reason with their inane hatreds. But we should not allow pressure groups to drive from radio people who say the darndest things and those whose views they don't like. I say that if you don't like what you're hearing, turn the dial. If you want to call in and talk back to the jockass, do so. But we can't talk back on the radio if the censorship crowd gets its way -- if the sound of morning drives is bland conformity with the peculiar and narrow tastes of those who don't want us to hear what they themselves don't like.

The writer is executive director of the New York Civil Rights Coalition and a former assistant national director of the NAACP.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 03:51 PM

If the members of the Rutgers team can show that they do not listen to or own rap CDs, I will take their "hurt" seriously. I have, always , been offended by the term "ho" and I have never understood why black women have put up with it, all these years. I might add that Don Imus (who I find, both, unamusing and unedifying) was not, seriously calling the basketball players prostitutes, If he had meant to do so, he would have said "whores" or "harlots" or some other Eurocentric slur. One of the players said that she was permanantly scarred by Imus's insult. Does she, really, think that an eccentric talk show performer has more influence than a rapper?
Imus is a shock jock and, not even the most outragious. He, howard Stern and their wannabes are meaningless blips on the culture screen.
We have real problems in our cities, in our nation and in our world. Our Arican-American community has bigger fish to fry than wasting energy on clumsy banter. Black on black murder has robbed the inner city of its neighborhoods. Teenage pregnancy is epidemic and the inner city schools are arenas. In my city, 50% of the, available, workforce is unemployed and the percentage of scholl dropouts is embarrassing, and , now, everyone wants to lynch Don Imus for quoting rappers. There is a folksong about this very thing, I am sure.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:12 AM

Jeff Greenbaum said that having Sharpton as the spokesman for antiracist solutions and retribution PROVES that God has a sense of humor.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:07 AM

So - we should all be going around talking like that bozo?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Apr 07 - 10:03 AM

Having listened to the ladies on the basketball team, there were several who were insightful and articulate and one who spoke in Ebonics (unless she meant she was literally going to 'axe' Don Imus)
I did not hear the 2 white players speak. The coach was compelling.

No doubt their feelings were hurt. No one ever put that hurt in perspective and compared it to the hurt inflicted in Darfur. Too bad, with the national stage before them they could have focused our national attention to a larger agenda than just personal feelings.

These comments may be seen as racist by some. That is OK. I have learned that there is not one among us who is not racist - particularly the people who claim they are not racist. Thomas Farmer taught me that white people with good anti racist intentions STILL have taken advantage of the racist structures in which they live. For that reason they can not claim that they are not racists simply because they have participated in racist society.

The worst racism is the silent racism.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:08 PM

Yeah Sins.....I don't think Sharpton has ever paid up or apologized after being found guilty has he?   Sharpton is a lot less than the ideal spokesman for anything including racism. You couldn't help but laugh at him interviewing Imus........birds of a feather.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: SINSULL
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 09:41 PM

I am amused at Sharpton's "holier than thou" stand. Does anyone remember Tawana Brawley?

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bee
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 09:40 PM

If Imus said such a thing in a Canadian workplace (note I'm not talking about 'entertainment' or public media), he would be hauled off for sensitivity training, and if he persisted, he likely would be fired, for poisoning the work environment.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 07:38 PM

You make some good points Frank. I do think Imus cut his own throat, and I would not offer him a bandaid.

There is one problem I have with your points. One is that I do not think this is the same as yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. Yelling "fire" is a huge problem is because of the danger it creates - you do not know who is yelling and if the problem is real. In the case of Don Imus, he has a history of using race, religion and politics as the source of supposed humor. These type of remarks were not new.

Please don't misunderstand - I am not supporting what he said. I think he deserves to be boycotted. I draw the line at calling for his firing. If I sit in the front row at the whale show at Sea World, I know I am going to get wet. I can't sue Sea World for having my clothes ruined. Don Imus did not suddenly decided to use the word "ho" that day.

Perhaps there is a heavy bias on AM, and other outlets. I blame the FCC and deregulation for that. Stations no longer have to present equal time on issues and they can get away with the garbage that is spewed. While I firmly believe in free speech, I thought the original regulations allowed for more diversity and sharing of ideas.   Sometimes it is not good to get what you wish for.

At times like this I think of Lenny Bruce, who could use words and show us the stupidity and danger - and still make us laugh, but not at the expense of others.   Don Imus is not Lenny Bruce.

Thoughts need to remain free. We enter a dangerous situation when we make laws that determine who and what can use the radio airwaves. I don't think people realize how much freedom they would lose.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Stringsinger
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 06:47 PM

Ron,

I think your point about free speech would be OK if there were equal time given to all points of view. There is a heavy bias in favor of racism, sexism,etc. on all the major AM outlets. However, to fire Imus would be an example to others that this nasty stuff is not allowable on major media when it's definitively "hate speech", which it was. This kind of stuff crosses the line into "yelling fire in a crowded theater". People are hurt by this kind of talk and it's "not just sticks and stones that can break your bones."

"Cheap little rhyme to cheap little tune,
Is sometimes as dangerous as a sliver of a moon.
Cheap little tune to cheap little rhyme
Can cut a man's throat, sometime."
---Langston Hughes

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 06:28 PM

"The parent has the responsibility for determining what their child listens to."

It's not the children with parents who take on their responsibilities that we're worried about. Newsflash: there are a whole lot of parents down at the bar right now, there are a whole lot of parents behind bars, there are a whole lot of parents working somewhere far from home, there are a whole lot of parents trying to scare up their next fix, there are a whole lot of parents who barely speak English and are working two or three jobs to make ends meet, there are a whole lot of parents who don't even know what their kids look like - believe me, those parents aren't spending much time "determing what their child listens to".

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Mike Miller
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 06:27 PM

Well, let's see if Greg F is correct about the rampant racism in the Jewish community. Synagogues and the ADL have been active in the civil rights movement since before it was chic to be. I can't count the many Jews who were involved in the voting registration efforts in the South, some of whom, like Andy Goodman, gave their lives for black rights. I don'r recall many black protesters when Jews were attacked, when Jews were discriminated against, when Jews were slaughtered. That's OK, though. I don't remember many white Christians stepping up to bat, either. There is no Jewish equivilant to Louis Farakhan. No respectable Jewish "leader" could get away with the comments of a Jesse Jackson or a Spike Lee. He would be villified by the Jewish community. Jackie Mason has been criticised for stereotyping, in his act, but Chris Rock has not (nor, should he be). There is a world outside of this forum and, in that world, there is real danger and real evil. If we are to survive, we must learn to get our priorities straight. Words can be hurtful but, so long as they are not slanderous, they can not harm us. Freedom of speech means having to hear a lot of things that may be offensive. It is one of the costs we incur for living in a free society. So, I have to listen to the drunken ravings of Mel Gibson and you get to tolerate someone you find disgusting. Like the teatotaler, being served a coctail in his hotel room, you have to take the bitters with the suite.

                     Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:50 PM

"we handled it before and were none the worse for it."

That is highly debatable. It could be the reason why we are in such a current mess.

I don't buy the arguement about what children hear. The parent has the responsibility for determining what their child listens to. Airwaves can be blocked at a parents discretion so that they do not hear something you do not want them exposed to.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:18 PM

I personally do not say fire him. Certainly hold his feet to the fire and likewise anyone else who uses phrases such as that on public airwaves...go back to censoring...we handled it before and were none the worse for it. Have laws that say certain things can not be said, especially when children can hear it..and that goes for what is said on public transportation..where people are victims of all sorts of foul and racist and hateful language. Throw them off the bus, in the middle of a snowstorm. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:15 PM

It's not only college women. I bet that unless steps have been taken in most middle schools in America that a whole bunch of 13 year olds are hit with that phrase. It will be new to many of them. I think most college women at Rutgers can probably handle themselves when they hear a phrase like that, at least I hope so...and should cut off communication with any man or woman who utters it..but a 12 year old? Think it isn't happening? mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg B
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:12 PM

Interesting how folks who defend to the death their right of
freedom of expression in one situation all pile on to the
'Fire him! Shut him down!' wagon when it's someone with whom
they disagree or by whom they are offended by (or more correctly
'have decided that they should be offended').

It's one thing to say (rightly or wrongly) 'that's offensive.'

It's quite another to say 'deprive him (or her) of his living
or use of the public forum since I don't like what he says.'

It's amazing how many folks who would hate to have that standard
applied to them, or to those they agree with, are quick to apply
it to those whose ideas they find inconvenient.

This thread is, in general, an illustration of just how few
freedom of expression adherants are really left.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bee
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 02:03 PM

Never heard or seen him before today. Just saw the captain of the team making a statement that Imus and the team have agreed to a private meeting to talk it out.

Nice to know that freedom of speech includes 'men' like Imus calling young college women nasty names on air.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 01:54 PM

Let's speak plainly. The phrase "nappy headed ho's" is no worse, and probably more tasteful, than the lyrics to half the rap songs you'll overhear. I would go so far as to say that the phrase was an allusion to rap lyrics. Does this justify his comment? In no way. Does the fact that BET, the cable showcase for black culture, runs rap music everyday that displays young black men using such remarks justify Imus' words? No. Does the fact that Imus is white and 50 Cent is black make a phrase that could easily be used by either of them, equally contemptible? Apparently not.

I will say this. If I hear you and your brother referring to your sister as a red-headed bitch over and over again, and neither you nor she seem to take it as an insult, there is only one thing that prohibits me using the same term : I'm not a member of your family. Common sense tells me it's not appropriate. So is Imus' remark a manifestation of racism, or a failure of his common sense? I suggest it is the latter.

Racist and sexist language is endemic in our culture, among both blacks and whites. Until we address that problem, our solution will be punishing certain individual high-profile violators for crossing a line, while overlooking the roar of racist messages that blare from numberless sources.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 01:27 PM

Imus was 'slapped on the wrist' much as famous athletes are when they do something stupid. He is 'interesting' to a lot of people, and he makes money for the network, so they cut him a lot of slack.

Maybe there is room for him on satellite radio with Howard Stern.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: dwditty
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 01:23 PM

If Imus had any moral character (or balls, for that matter), he would simply recognize just how wrong he is and resign.

dw

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 01:09 PM

"I don't know why comments like this are allowed on public airways at all. It is not just demeaning language, but it has a very threatening component as well. I hope FCC comes in and puts in some or enforces some rules. There are some "rights" of free speech I am quite willing to trample."

That is just plain wrong. The reason we have free speech in this country is to stop persecution and allow the sharing of ideas. The downside is that we sometimes hear things that make us very uncomfortable and angry. No one is telling ANYONE that they should listen or support Imus.

First it was a bare boob on television which opened the door to allow the FCC to determine what is indecent. Now, because one radio host acted like a jerk, you want the FCC to alter rules to stop his speech - because you feel angry.    Where does it stop? This will soon turn into Nazi Germany where we will be told what to listen to and watch.   You don't fight racism by chipping away at our right to free speech.   

If the employers of Don Imus decide to take him off their air (they do own the license, not Imus), then so be it. If you look for the government to step in and do it - you are asking for the end of this country as we know it.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 12:34 PM

Yeah - I can't stand it when they go around looking all mopey and sorry for themselves, or getting all uppity and complaining. What's the matter with them? Must be that preacher that's been comin' 'round, puttin' all kinds of notions into their heads - you see? That's what happens when these go-gooders start lettin' them learn how to read. They were perfectly happy before, and that's how I like them.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: mg
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 12:30 PM

I don't know why comments like this are allowed on public airways at all. It is not just demeaning language, but it has a very threatening component as well. I hope FCC comes in and puts in some or enforces some rules. There are some "rights" of free speech I am quite willing to trample. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 12:15 PM

It's time for people to suck-it-up and deal with reality. Black leaders love an incident like this so they can draw an audience and strut their stuff. I doubt if the everyday black citizens even thinks twice about it.

                People are just too thin-skinned sometimes.

                Imus apologized--it looked like he meant it to me. The rest of us need to just get on with more important things.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: GUEST,tolerance
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 11:29 AM

"Comedians however deserve a pass. Once a society loses its sense of humor and free speech it will replace laughter with bloody beatings."

The problem is everyone thinks they are a comedian.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: dwditty
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 11:13 AM

I second your emotion, Spaw. I tuned into Imus this morning to see who had replaced him. Not only was he there, but people were calling in supporting him with backslaps and chuckles. Bill Maher (sp? - the guy with that show where he would get a few celebrities together to talk about "issues") called in to offer his support, saying, bad as Imus' joke was,people should just get over it. He just landed in the asshole pile with Imus.

Two weeks suspension - what a joke.

dw

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:23 AM

While you can't change Don Imus you CAN at least limit the exposure given to him and others who say it is humor when in point of fact, it's hate. I am also bothered that there seems to still be an attitude that there is less racism in the "north" than in the "south."

Back during the Missing and Murdered Children investigation in Atlanta a couple of drive-time DJ's said that the murderer had been found......it was "a 'gator hiding in a watermelon." Within about 45 seconds they went unexpectedly to a commercial break which ran for several minutes past what was normal. When the live broadcast came back, both of them were missing and were never heard from again around Atlanta.

Imus gets a 2 week suspension? The veiled and "cute" hate language of a Don Imus is far more a detriment to race relations than the more open and obvious. They should have fired this asshole on the spot.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:20 AM

I would like to thank Kendall for instructing me, and my fellow Jews, as to the limits of racism. If he believes that there is not rampant anti-Semitism in the African-American community

No more so, I imagine, than the "rampant" anti-African American sentiment in the Jewish Community.
Pots & kettles........

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:16 AM

Actually, I have to feel sorry for Don Imus.

His remarks are no worse than the vomit spewed daily by the rest of the "shock jock" gobshites: Stern, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Leykis, Schlessinger, Coulter, Hedinger, Schlafly & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on & on........

They all going to get the axe? I think not. Audiences love 'em.

And THERE'S the REAL obscenity.

Subject: RE: BS: Don Imus replacment
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 10 Apr 07 - 10:04 AM

mesoginistic = misogynistic = a pathological hatred of or discrimination against women. The hatred and discrimination against men is called misandry.

Misogynists may hate all women, or may just hate powerful women. Many workplace bullies who find it impossible to take orders from a higher ranking woman are misogynists and take it out on women of equal or lower rank.

In the film 'Mrs Doubtfire', the main character makes a comment about meeting the 'misogynistic bastard' who invented high heels.

LTS