Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 07:26 PM

Yes, "Greystoke" was by far the most faithful to the legend of Tarzan as presented by ERB. I really liked that one.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Duke
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 05:08 PM

I read all the books that Boroughs wrote and not just as a kid. I was in my twenties. I would still enjoy them today! I loved the Weissmuller movies and if you think about it, that was all we had back then for movies. I also liked Lex Barker and Gordon Scott but not so much. As for closeness to the books, it was Greystoke, The legion of Tarzan.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 04:57 PM

I don't do much drawing these days, Don, but I used to when I was a child and into my early 20s. I drew cartoon stories of a world peopled not by we homo sapiens, but by civilized alligators and crocodiles. Relatively civilized, that is! ;-) They had walled cities and sailing ships and stuff, but they also engaged in a lot of mayhem. Out in the countryside there were numerous dinosaurs and other creatures, so a hunting expedition could involve some very big game and entail very considerable risk, needless to say.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 03:27 PM

Yo, Little Hawk,

I first started drawing at the age of six or so. I was fascinated by "Buck Rogers in the 25th Century" in the Sunday "funnies," and I couldn't wait for next Sunday's episode, so I would take a sheet of my father's typewriter paper, rule it into panels, and draw what I thought it might be. Buck Rogers and Wilma Deering zipping around space in rocket ships and doing battle with "The Fiend of Space" and his army of mechanical men (robots). Great stuff!

I kept at it. And when I moved into my teens, I was drawing my own characters. World War II was under way, and my hero was a fighter pilot who bore a bit of a resemblance to Steve Canyon, winning the war single-handed.

My Dad was very supportive, and bought me "How to Draw" books and the kind of art materials the books recommended. The right kind of paper, pens, brushes, India ink. . . .

I learned the hard way that I'd better write up the continuity ahead of time, or I could draw my hero into a fix I couldn't get him out of. So I would write up the story like a movie script:   a description of the illustration, and the dialog that would appear in the speech balloons. When I was about thirteen or so, I had about twenty weeks of both daily and Sunday strips (complete with color) all drawn up, four times the size they would appear in the papers, ready for reduction and printing.

I fully intended to become another Milton Caniff or Hal Foster or Alex Raymond when I grew up.

But at one point, I had many weeks of "script" written up, and I became so interested in constructing the story that I never got around to drawing the strips. So I stated writing stories.

By that age, I was reading things like Scott's Ivanhoe, Sabatini's novels, Master at Arms, Captain Blood, The Sea Hawk, Scaramouche, et al., various science fiction stories and novels (Heinlein, Asimov, Van Vogt, etc.). I took a creative writing class in high school and majored in English Literature (Creative Writing specialty) when I entered the University of Washington.

It was a few years later that I fell in with Questionable Companions (pretty little gal named Claire Hess, Walt Robertson, Sandy Paton, who lived in Seattle at the time, Dick Landberg, others) and became interested in folk music. A few years later, I was making a good living at it (had changed my major to Music). Educational TV series, coffeehouses, concerts, for about ten years. Then came The British Invasion (Beatles, etc), and folk music oriented venues all switched to rock. I kept right on singing, but gigs were a bit scarcer and I needed a "day job."

When I went to work for the Boeing Airplane Company, my drawing experience stood me in good stead. I was hired for the Production Illustration department where I would take engineering blueprints and do "3D" renderings (draw what the part or piece if equipment would look like when installed in the aircraft). I did drawings for the 707, 727, 737, and 747 before Boeing lost a couple of government contracts (the cancellation of an American SST in particular) and thousands of people, including me, got laid off. But by then, I was working as a radio announcer on a local radio station on week-ends, so I was a bit luckier that a lot of people in Seattle at the time, I moved into full-time broadcasting. Nice to have a back-up plan.

But during the time I was at Boeing, in addition to production illustration, I did a lot of cartooning (officially). The P.I. department put out a weekly "newspaper," and I got a chance to do a comic strip. James Bond movies were big then (late 60s, early 70s), so my character was an undercover trouble shooter in the company—Secret Agent 00707 (what else?). Fedora, dark glasses, Dick Tracy chin, trench coat with the collar turned up, and tenny runners.

One of 00707's assignments was to guard a new, special order airplane being constructed for Mukilteo Airlines, to fly between Mukilteo, a small town (real) north of Seattle and Whidbey Island (a twenty minute ride on the ferry). The engineers found, to their amazement, that when they installed the new computer system into the aircraft, it became sentient. It developed prehensile wing-tips—and to everyone's horror, a bad case of acrophobia (extreme fear of heights)!

The strip ran for a couple of months and the people in the P.I. department and a few other departments (including some of the engineers on the line) followed it avidly and thought it was absolutely nutso-hilarious!

But some stiff-lipped executives were not amused. They thought I was poking fun at The Company and they order that the strip be stopped. I wasn't making fun of the Lazy B, I was just following the story where it wanted to go (such as the plane absolutely refusing to fly, but it was perfectly willing to use its prehensile wings to dog-paddle to the island and back).

Sic transit gloria smart-ass.

I still have copies of the department paper with my strip in it.

I do a lot of writing these days. I actually worked for a couple of years as a technical writer for the Bonneville Power Administration (the same agency Woody Guthrie wrote songs for in the 1930s), and I've got about twenty some-odd articles, mostly having to do with folk music, published in various magazines, and a book in the works, almost finished. I don't do much drawing anymore, but I still draw the occasional irreverent cartoon.

You do much drawing these days?

Don Firth

P. S. I had a marvelous experience about twenty years ago. The Frye Art Museum, not far from where I live, had an exhibit called "History of the 'Funny Papers.'" They had prints—and in some cases, the original drawings!—that went as far back as "The Yellow Kid," one of the very first comic strips, up to a lot of very recent stuff.

To me, the real centerpiece of the whole exhibit was the original of one of the "Prince Valiant" strips. I have several compilations of old comic strips in large-format books (Fantagraphics), including Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, and Prince Valiant. And there on the wall of the Frye Museum was the original of one I had in the Prince Valiant collection. Large (about four times the size it appeared in the Sunday paper), pen, brush, and India ink. No color, which would have been added later on a transparent overlay.

I had a chance to stand there in front of it and closely examine the details of how Foster did the drawings—and (most instructive!) the goofs he had made (covered with White-Out), and in one place, where he had cut out a segment of the illustration board in one panel, pasted another piece in, and re-drew that part of the panel. None of which was noticeable in the final printing.

Things I wish I had known when I was hard at it! As I said, MOST instructive!!

Hal Foster was bloody brilliant! More than a cartoonist, his strips were illustrated.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 03:45 PM

I feel your pain, Don. And I share it. ;-)

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 03:00 PM

When Disney Studios had Tarzan retire the vines as a means of travel and essentially skateboard from tree limb to tree limb to pander to a gaggle of teen-agers with skateboards—

—and when Disney Studios had Tom Hulse (a good actor when in his own element) provide the voice for Quasimodo in "The Hunchback of Notre Dame" and had Quasimodo singing and dancing with Victor, Hugo, and Laverne, three gargoyles whose architectural function is to hang out from the eaves of the cathedral and barf rainwater on anyone below—

—and when Disney Studios took "The Little Mermaid," a story that, when we were little, my sisters and I listened to as one of the fairy tale presentations on the radio program, "Let's Pretend" on Saturday mornings and had a thoroughly wonderful cry at the very sad ending—and gave the classic fairy tale a happy ending—

I wrote Disney Studios off as an aggregate of tasteless boobs, pandering to the gods of shallowness and not giving children (or adults, for that matter) credit for being able to handle—and be enriched by—a wide range of emotions. Twits! Making a buck by taking classic stories and works of literature, works that had some real verve and depth to them, and turning them into the shallowest forms of entertainment.

BUT—

If Disney Studios does an at least halfway decent job of the "John Carter of Mars" movie, I might consider altering my opinion a bit.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 12:59 PM

"The woman they have chosen doesn't look like Dejah Thoris to me. "

Agreed - I with that they had gone with the copper colored skin at least.But this girl is as white as they come. Thandie Newton or Grace Park come to mind as better choices.

"It's because we have built up taboos about certain parts of the body that we are frightened by public nakedness. The Martians in ERB's books didn't suffer from that particular phobia."

Certain parts of my body should be taboo...

As for the books - my Grandfather gave me a first printing of the Gods of Mars - the second book in the series. And the artwork from that book shows clothed Martians. The early teens would not have allowed pictures of nekked people - even if they were Martians.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 10:50 AM

The woman they have chosen doesn't look like Dejah Thoris to me. But as for the clothing aspect....this society of ours is too inhibited about nakedness to deal with a mainstream movie that depicts the Martians as ERB described them. That's unfortunate, but that's simply the way it is. The censors wouldn't allow it, and people would think it a threat to children, but it isn't. If you have a situation where everyone in a society walks around naked or almost naked...as in nudist camps, for example, or in various tribal societies that have existed here and there...it presents no threat to children or to anyone else, it's not erotic, it just becomes the norm and no one thinks anything of it.

It's because we have built up taboos about certain parts of the body that we are frightened by public nakedness. The Martians in ERB's books didn't suffer from that particular phobia.

Whether ERB thought he could sell more Mars novels by igniting the prurient imagination of an inhibited population with his descriptive prose, of course, is another question altogether! ;-D

They need a slender, young, brunette exotic-looking type to portray Dejah Thoris. The young Angelina Jolie might have done rather well for the part.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 15 Jul 11 - 07:21 AM

Re the learning to read bit above from John on SC ~~ the original Frankenstein's creation, in the Mary Shelley novel, is sensitive & highly intelligent, & learns to speak, & read, by overhearing & then goes on to read Paradise Lost. Is there perhaps an echo here?

On the racial question, re more innocent, or alternatively more horrible, times: anyone remember the old Wizard comic, which was mainly prose stories for older boys, like Hotspur, Rover, &c, but did have a running cover strip: about a man and a boy shipwrecked on a desert island who have somehow pacified the natives, whom they always referred to as 'the nigs' [can such have indeed been the case during my brief existence!], whom they enlist to aid in various projects. A sort of Tarzan spinoff? Tho overtones of the Ballantyne of A Coral Island [1857] too, perhaps: how far did ERB learn from that tradition, does anyone think?

Rapparee, have you really the privilege of living in Pocatello, Idaho; where Judy Garland's persona in A Star Is Born, was born in a trunk in the Princess Theater. Wowie! BTW Pindah-likoyee is given as Apache in the Flashman books, about which I used to correspond with Geo MacDonald Fraser, but alas he is now dead so I can't ask him about it.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 04:03 PM

Yeah - especially the last part.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 03:36 PM

I would have preferedm that Dejah Thoris look a little more like how she was described in the book:


And the sight which met my eyes was that of a slender, girlish figure, similar in every detail to the earthly women of my past life... Her face was oval and beautiful in the extreme, her every feature was finely chiseled and exquisite, her eyes large and lustrous and her head surmounted by a mass of coal black, waving hair, caught loosely into a strange yet becoming coiffure. Her skin was of a light reddish copper color, against which the crimson glow of her cheeks and the ruby of her beautifully molded lips shone with a strangely enhancing effect.

She was as destitute of clothes as the green Martians who accompanied her; indeed, save for her highly wrought ornaments she was entirely naked, nor could any apparel have enhanced the beauty of her perfect and symmetrical figure.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 03:27 PM

But does she first establish a meaningful relationship with the eggs she lays? That's the question.

That movie looks like it could be reasonably good fun.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 02:52 PM

I wonder if it will address the fact that Dejah Thoris lays eggs?

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Wesley S
Date: 14 Jul 11 - 01:59 PM

The trailer for the John Carter of Mars movie. 100 years after the first book was released.


John Carter of Mars movie

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 05:23 PM

Yes, Don, Albert the Alligator in Walt Kelly's "Pogo" strip was a real inspiration to me. He was my favorite Pogo character. There was another little comic strip going for kids that had a character called "Mr Gator" in it. It was one of those comics that gives good advice to young minds in a single panel strip that appears weekly. Mr Gator would be advising the best way to handle things like bikes, matches, firecrackers, etc...

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Don Firth
Date: 16 Jun 11 - 12:41 PM

Hey, Little Hawk, it looks like a couple of your characters made the big time!!

CLICKY #1.   CLICKY #2

Congratulations!

Real busy today. Talk to you later.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 09:46 PM

So THAT'S what happened to my cousin Herman! He was a croc, but not a very intelligent one. Lot's of people said, "Herman, that stupid croc!"

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 06:42 PM

A lot of us teenagers dreamed of being comics illustrators, Don. I invented an entire fictional world that was people mostly by intelligent reptiles rather than hominids. The 2 civilized races were the Alligators and the Crocodiles. Unlike real Alligators and Crocodiles, these ones have evolved to being bipeds, thus had usable hands like humans, and they fought wars against each other constantly, built cities, fortresses, and sailing ships, used mostly edged weapons for combat. They also wore simple clothing and light armour now and then. I got pretty good at drawing mass scenes of hundreds of Alligators and Crocodiles locked in fierce combat, and had a number of regular characters that appeared in those stories.

They got into religion some too, each race figuring that they had "God on their side". Naturally. ;-D

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Don Firth
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 05:24 PM

Much to add on this subject (these subjects) because comic strips, the "funnies," and movies were meat and potatoes to me when I was a tad. It was my ambition to become a comic strip artist (like Milton Caniff and Hal Foster--write the story and do the illustrations all myself, not assembly line like Marvel Comics was later done). Pursued this for several years, took art classes, finally gave it up in my teens. But I'd gotten pretty good. Among other things, I could draw a B-25 or a P-51 right down to the last rivet.

Don't have time to add much right now, but I'll be back!

But--this note:   I do not remmember "UNGOWA" from any of the Tarzan movies. What I DO remember is from a movie called Africa Screams! (1949), with Abbott and Costello.

The cannibal chief is looking hungrily at the soft and chubby Lou Costello (charaacter name, "Stanley Livingston"), reaches out and starts pinching his arm, then licks his lips and says, "OOMGOWA!" Which clearly meant, "Hmm! Tender and well marbled!"

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Rapparee
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 04:43 PM

I told an Apache acquaintance once that I knew some Apache. I said "pindah-likoyee" and he said that it sounded like Navaho to him, but it certainly wasn't Apache.

You do know that Tarzan swung both ways, don't you?

ERB once ran a stationery store here in Pocatello, Idaho. There's a monument to it -- the taxi company now occupies the same space his store once did. Somebody remembers this about once every ten years or so and say, "We oughta do something about that."

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 01:04 PM

Someone mentioned "Apache Devil" and "War Chief," and I've always thought those were particularly unusual books for being written by a white man. His treatment of Apache culture and the interaction between the pindah-likoyee and the shis-inday were subtle, and not at all as racist as most 'western' authors.

That is, his Indians were a mix of good and bad individuals, as were his Cowboys. The hero was a white child raised as Geronimo's son, and triumphs over nefarious Indians (Juh) and white men (hmmm... I can't remember the white villain's name, but remember the Indian's; I find that interesting).

I've always wondered how much of his transliterated Apache language is genuine; I suspect most of it is. There would be little need for him to invent a language (a la Tarzan of the Apes) when he got so many of the other cultural references right.

I recommend the two books (they are connected -- read "Devil" first, I think) for anyone looking for more depth on Burroughs as a writer.

Bob

(Pindah-likoyee = white men; shis-inday = Indians)

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Wesley S
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 12:56 PM

A big budget John Carter of Mars film is supposed to be released next year. Info here:



John Carter

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 12:25 PM

I agree, John, one must read the ERB books themselves to really know Tarzan. The movies are mostly way off the mark, the comics are a bit closer to the real thing, but still not like the books. Tarzan in the books was a very smart and capable man, nothing less than the brain of an educated English nobleman inside the body of a jungle athlete. He certainly didn't speak in grunts and monosyllables.

This thread, however, was launched as a celebration of the Tarzan comic magazines of the 40s, 50s, and 60s...with particular attention given to the odd Ape-English vocabulary that was used so much in those comics, and which added greatly to the sense of drama...

KREE-GAH!!!!!!! (Look out!)
GOM!!!!   (Run!)
BUNDOLO!!!!! (Kill!)
Histah the snake
Numa the lion
Tantor the elephant
Horta the warthog
N'Kima the monkey (mistakenly referred to as a chimp in my original post at the beginning of the thread)
Mangani (the Great Apes)
Bolgani (the gorilla)

Etc...

I also read all the Tarzan books by ERB when I was in my early teens, simply devoured them. They were fine adventure tales, that's for sure. The thing I liked about the comics was the visual art...and the Ape-English vocabulary! KREE-GAH!!!

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: John on the Sunset Coast
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 11:32 AM

Anyone who knows Tarzan only from comic books and films (especially Disney) does not know Tarzan.

The writing is better than most series novels of today. Burroughs used a wider vocabulary, wrote in complex sentences, and gave the reader a feeling of time and place, things not often done in mass fiction of today.

Obviously some of the premises were far fetched...for instance, teaching himself to read and speak a language he never heard, having nothing to use as a guide, except a few pictures.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 07:57 AM

I like Philip Jose Farmer's take on the Tarzan novel.
His "A Feast Unknown" depicts a much darker, animal-like, Tarzan.
Also, Philip's Tarzan biography "Tarzan Alive" is a must for seeing Tarzan's adventures in their "true" chronological order.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 04:54 AM

A Princess of Mars has now been made as a straight-to-DVD film:


Also, from my childhood
Tarzan swings
Tarzan falls
Tarzan breaks his iron AAAAA-EEEE-AAAAA-EEEEEE-AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

So even then we realised that trailing vines were unsafe!

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 11 - 01:06 AM

...aahh histah the snake and more

I still have 20 of the Dell comics ... I'll look up some more great grey ape talk and feed it back here.

I think I grew up with a rubber knife in my mouth, sneaking around, dropping out of trees, and then John Weissmuller-ing the cry. But the real stuff was in the comics and every month I awaited the monthly subscription in the mail ... cover to cover, over and over.

I guess that was about 1960 (8 years old) and that lead to the books of ERB, whose turn of the century english vocabulary strained my little mind and reading skills. But my passion was fierce and the struggle to read intense. I attribute my desire to make sense of the world now largely to trying to decipher the code that gave me a window into those adventures. And maybe my underlying psyche was established then to later be a gymnast, a diver, a trapezist(?), and climber. I can still watch zoo gibbons brachiating forever. Who knows how deep these early experiences go?

So lastly, with all the nay-saying about moving quickly on diverse terrain, give this a look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDY5PPYG_gY

Makes my heart sing! KREE-GAH!

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: radriano
Date: 16 May 01 - 04:32 PM

Point taken, Midchuck.

I don't mind suspending belief for films but I guess I balk at the way Disney and the movies in general don't portray the characters as written in the original books. While swinging through trees for an adult human is implausible I find it more implausible and perhaps somewhat ludicrous to see (as in some of the films)Tarzan swinging on what is a not too cleverly concealed trapeze.

There were some better made Tarzan films but I don't count either the Disney film or the Weismuller films among them.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 May 01 - 03:57 PM

She needs to be carried off by a berserk ape, that one! Remember the scene in the movie "Morgan"?

- LH

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: GUEST
Date: 16 May 01 - 03:45 PM

Lets not forget that ERB wrote these books and stories to be serialized in magazines as exciting cliffhangers to get the reader back month after month. His primary plan was to earn a living, something he hadn't done consistently until he began writing.

His audience was largely people who were willing to suspend disbelief and be entertained with the mental popcorn Burroughs was willing to supply. Very often ERB's readers were unsophisticated folk who viewed Apes as powerful monsters who could tear a tarmangani limb from limb. The reader didn't know or care that the apes were shy,and at times, gentle folk who also could tear a tarmangani limb from limb. They were just fodder for ERB's story telling. Remember that Africa was still an unknown land in 1900. It was the time of explorers who came back from the wild places with trophies and tales of amazing sights.

Tarzan's vine swinging wasn't likely are even possible I suppose but so what. Heroes were and are required to be amazing.

I go to the movies to be entertained. I love The Mummy films. I have a relative that sits through the movies and tells all who will listen why that just "Isn't possible." But then she could suck the fun out of the circus given a chance.

Don

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Bill D
Date: 16 May 01 - 02:50 PM

made as much sense as Superman flying or Gene Autry leaping from his horse to drag the villian off HIS!

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 May 01 - 02:39 PM

There actually was just such a convenient vine hanging at the edge of the old ravine when I was a kid, and my and my friends used to swing out over the ravine on it each spring. We'd been doing this for 3 or 4 years with great success, when the vine suddenly broke one day as my friend Greg swing out on it. He plunged about 30 or 40 feet down into the ravine and disappeared into a huge pile of logs and branches at the bottom. Fortunately, he survived the experience, but our vine-swinging days were over after that.

I'm afraid there is simply no way an adult human can travel through your average deep jungle swinging on vines. Not possible. But it does make a good story, doesn't it?

- LH

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: GUEST,Midchuck upstairs
Date: 16 May 01 - 12:44 PM

The way Tarzan moved in the Disney film, sliding along tree trunks and the like, was based on the movement of skateboarders and snowboarders. Seeing as Tarzan had bare feet this method of movement is ludicrous.

Yes, but: the way Burroughs conceived of him traveling is the way monkeys and small apes travel. He could never have done it because, first, he was too heavy and would have broken a branch and fallen to his death in the first few jumps, and, second, that mode of travel depends on having gripping hands on all four limbs, as well as a prehensile tail. And of course, in the movies, there was always a handy vine that was connected to something only at the upper end so he could swing on it, but still wasn't dead and rotten from not having any roots at the ground end. So the Disney version is ludicrous, but no more so than the books or the prior movies - and visually more interesting.

I don't see anyone complaining about the aerial antics in Crouching Dragon, whatever, being ludicrous. Double standard?

Peter.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: InOBU
Date: 16 May 01 - 11:41 AM

I think you guys are on to something here... We need a mudcat language, something that identifies our tribe... So, I will start a post... and lets get some words down, very useful when political discussions start witht casual guest, eh, when one needs to yell Ungowah Bwana! Cheers, Larry

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: radriano
Date: 16 May 01 - 11:12 AM

I beg to differ. The way Tarzan moved in the Disney film, sliding along tree trunks and the like, was based on the movement of skateboarders and snowboarders. Seeing as Tarzan had bare feet this method of movement is ludicrous.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: DonMeixner
Date: 15 May 01 - 06:00 PM

Hollywood would definately screw up a John Carter/Mars film. I'd like to see Jennifer Connolly as Deja Thoris, Imagine the voice of James Earl Jones as Tars Tarkus, body by ILM, A slightly younger Liam Neeson as John Carter.

Hollywood would give us Cher, Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Arnold Schwarzenegger. {Yawn}

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: texastoolman
Date: 15 May 01 - 04:05 PM

disney's version of TARZAN exhibited just how tarzan moved through the jungle in a way the movies haven't been able to do as of yet i've always been very disappointed in nearly all the portrayals of tarzan outside of the books

what the movies did to "the land that time forgot" was just appaling that guy should have stayed with "wagon train" or talk show comedy what lousy movies and i watched everyone of them a couple of times or more just to make sure ERB created so many cultures,locales,and societies htat the possibilities are just limitless does anyone remember "the war cheif" and 'apache devil" what a departure for a white writer in the early 20th century tex

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 15 May 01 - 03:00 PM

The Disney treatment of the Jungle Books has indeed been a gross offence to anyone who grew up reading the originals. Predictable, but still horrifying. Ditto for Winnie-the-Pooh. Maybe we should be glad that John Carter of Mars has remained obscure enough to escape Hollywood's attentions thus far.

They would probably cast Julia Roberts as Deja Thoris....or maybe, dare I say it, Britney Spears!!!

- LH

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: radriano
Date: 14 May 01 - 07:48 PM

Burroughs was certainly ahead of his time in many respects. In the Mars series, for example, one of the books deals with brain transplants.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: DonMeixner
Date: 14 May 01 - 06:22 PM

ERB also did an excellent one shot book that was serialized in two stories called Beyond The Farthest Star. Basically a foretelling of things to come with the Second World War, an Americain Aviator flying for England or France in 1939 gets shot down over Europe and is killed. But like John Carter, he reawakens healthy on a distant planet and becomes the ERB everyman. Like John Carter, David Inness, Carson Napier, Barney Custer and most every other man in the pulp fiction canon he proceeds to set the new world right. ERB was clueless about flying and sword fighting but he was able to write an exciting story using these devices. (How often was something refered to as a hurtling engine of destruction. Zitadars, Thoats, Rhinos and elephants got the same ERB treatment.)

ERB was certainly derivative but at least he was an original and derivative of himself. With the possible exception of The Mad King which was everything that The Prisoner of Zenda should have been and wasn't.

Don

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Peter T.
Date: 14 May 01 - 06:04 PM

While we are trashing Disney, let me take this opportunity of vilifying Disney's assault on The Jungle Books. I could go on through the list of great childrens books trashed, and I have done, but this may be the worst. On the other hand, there is the Little Mermaid....and Winnie-the-Pooh....oh god.
yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 01 - 04:49 PM

You're right, Mario, I wasn't being entirely fair to the original Jane in the books...

It's Hollywood that created the ditz in the torn dress.

- LH

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: MMario
Date: 14 May 01 - 04:42 PM

In several of the books Jane was shown to be a stong self-reliant character - in fact, as I recall, in one of them Jane and her daughter in law rescue Korak and Tarzan...

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 01 - 04:38 PM

LEJ - nice description of some of the essential elements of the Tarzan movies. Jane was an utter ditz in the movies...the most quintessential dumb blonde of all time. One wonders what the apeman saw in her, but he had led a rather sheltered life, after all, and he did seem to enjoy rescuing people. With a partner like Jane that would be a job that was never finished, I suspect. Those poor crocodiles, lions, etc. were just trying to improve the human gene pool...

Jane in the comics was a far more mature woman, as I recall, and took to wearing some pretty classic African garb. She looked well adapted to life in Africa.

Jane in the books was a bit more like the movie version, always in need of rescuing, really good at screaming and not much else.

The one movie Jane who had some maturity and intelligence was in (again) Greystoke...well, and also in Disney's recent animated flim which was pretty good, actually.

- LH

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 01 - 04:22 PM

Yes, I remember Bomba the Jungle Boy. It was really truly atonishingly bad. I don't think anyone could write a worse jungle adventure series if they honestly tried to. Bomba also had a hapless black native boy who pal'ed around with him and was always needing to be rescued, but I cannot recall his name at the moment. I suspect that the Anacondas actually had a union contract which guaranteed them X number of scenes per book. Bomba was what McDonalds would come up with if they marketed jungle stories instead of burgers. YECH!

Happy reading, Peter! And may you dream of Deja Thoris...

- LH

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Peter T.
Date: 14 May 01 - 04:10 PM

Tars Tarkas!!!!! OmiGOD. Oh Hell, now I have to go back and read them. God I loved those books -- thanks for this Little Hawk, I am again indebted to you. I would have kidnapped Deja Thoris at the drop of a sabre. I have to go and get these, I hope they aren't terrible now....
Anyone remember the other really trashy jungle book series (was it Bomba the Jungle Boy?) -- all I recall is that he kept getting trapped by anacondas. It was like the Annette movies, when it got too boring, people said "Surfs Up". In Bomba, they hit him with an anaconda.

yours, Peter T.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 May 01 - 04:00 PM

Agreed, radriano, most of the movies were utterly dreadful, and did no credit to the character. One exception was Greystoke, with Christopher Lambert, which was pretty good, and treated the subject matter seriously (as pointed out already by DonMeixner).

It was always astonishing to me what a shoddy treatment the film industry gave to Tarzan, considering the wealth of possibilities for some really spectacular films that could have rivalled Indian Jones, had they bothered to try. And that's to say nothing of the Mars series, which could have been even grander, but has not even been attempted.

UNGOWAH! Yes, an extraordinarily useful phrase (which appeared absolutely nowhere EXCEPT in the movies, as far as I know. Here's what it really meant:

Scene 1: Tarzan is in deep trouble. He's been captured by (a) vicious native trive (b) vicious white hunter up to no good (c) vicious Arab slave traders (d) vicious Nazis unaccountably lost in Central Africa (e) all of the above. Just as they are about to deliver the coup de grace to the helpless apeman, he utters that strange ululating cry popularized by Johhny Weismuller...AAAAA-EEEE-AAAAA-EEEEEE-AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!

The baddies fall back momentarily in superstitious fear, and look around nervously at the jungle. (Little do they know that "AAAAA-EEEE-AAAAA-EEEEEE-AAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!" means "All elephants are motherfuckers!!!".

Scene 2: Tantor the elephant is grazing with his herd. Suddenly he hears the cry, recoils, and trumpets in fury. The herd starts to move...

Scene 3: The gloating leader of the bad guys informs the Lord of the Jungle that his silly yelling isn't going to accomplish anything, and that he should say his prayers instead and prepare to meet his maker. Tarzan gazes stonily past his left ear and ignores him. The bad guys move in for the kill. But suddenly they hear a rumbling sound approaching...

Scene 4: 500 enraged elephants burst through the foliage into the clearing. As the bad guys freeze in terror, Tarzan nods or gestures in their general direction and yells "UNGOWA!!!" ...which means, in Elephantese, "THEY SAID IT!!!"

Scent 5,6,7: The elephants massacre, trample, slice and dice the bad guys with extreme prejudice. Tantor grinds their leader's head under one massive foot. Great closeup of foot coming down and bad guy screaming...

TARZAN TRIUMPHS AGAIN!

Strangely enough, the elephants never seem to catch on to this oft-repeated gambit...lucky for the apeman.

Thanks for the link, Bill D! And you too, Giac!

- LH

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: radriano
Date: 14 May 01 - 11:05 AM

I enjoyed Burroughs' books very much, especially the Mars series. Most of the Tarzan movies were abominable, especially the early ones - I absolutely hated Weismuller. In the books Tarzan was intelligent, spoke several languages and, to date, has never been portrayed accurately. The most insulting thing the movies did was take up Weismuller's yodel as Tarzan's yell - that was never in the books.

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: DonMeixner
Date: 14 May 01 - 07:23 AM

Right you are Seamus, Just saw Big Jake and had Bruce Cabot in the memory banks.

Drop me an EMail, I have some questions for you.

Don

Subject: RE: Tarzan comics & 'Ape-English' memories..
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 14 May 01 - 01:57 AM

Don, I think it was Bruce Bennett (Herman Brix). Bruce Cabot was in King Kong.

Seamus