Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Flash Company
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 11:23 AM

I did have an Aran Sweater once, S knitted it with her own fair hand, thing was I hardly ever wore it, I got too bloody hot in it.
(Not Sexually, I hasten to add!)
Still got my Tom Paxton cap though!

FC

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 08:05 AM

That is, if the beard isn't quite of the magnitude to fulfill that function.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 08:04 AM

Or, alternatively, you can wear a bib.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 08:02 AM

the thing about aran sweaters is you can spill gravy down the front for a couple of days - then wear it backwards and spill gravy down the back, then you can turn it inside out, and repeat the process....

I have found.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:59 AM

If you see Mootlefish and Boats (aka the ducklings) at festivals they may well be wearing the matching aran sweaters knitted by my own fair hand. If they have their fingers in their ears too they probably are just ignoring you :0)

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:49 AM

OK...I have two Aran sweaters, one I bought myself and one my daughter grew out of (got smaller, not bigger). So then, why can't I sing?

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:48 AM

I feel we should point out to our listening audience that it is NEVER a good idea to throw your pint over your right shoulder in a crowded drinking establishment. It is not a practice we endorse, the previous anecdote notwithstanding.

Now back to our regular program.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:43 AM

Can you have a blonde haired, blue eyes Aryan sweater? Would they persecute Aaron sweaters?

:D

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: stallion
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 07:40 AM

I have to say one of the funniest things I ever saw was my Boss and his cronies at a High Level Ranters gig all decked out in Aran sweaters, like wearing tucs! I was in a scruffy tee shirt and jeans. I did ask him if he liked folk music, he wasn't really bothered either way but "there was a crowd that went out every friday night and occasionally went to folk do's and he didn't want to stand out in the crowd"
I laughed so much I fell backwards off the stool and threw my pint over my right shoulder.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 05:32 AM

,i>I understand that carpets woven in Islamic cultures always include an error because only god can make things perfect.

The Amish make an identical claim for their patchwork quilts. I asked a patchwork quilt expert whether this applied to Durham quilt makers.

Her answer was that it was virtually impossible to make a perfect quilt anyway (especially when a number of people were working on them at the same time as sometimes happened) so all quilts had mistakes in them. Even when made by one person. I am sure this applies to carpets just the same

Sorry for the thread drift.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Alec
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 04:16 AM

My preference for "Arran" is probably the consequence of having had a highly partisan Clydeside born mother.
Given that Inis Mor is one of The Aran Islands & is also now officially Craggy Island, next question for the room has to be,are genuine Aran sweaters presented in cakes?

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Jim Lad
Date: 10 Mar 07 - 02:38 AM

Jes you can!

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,MC
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 11:40 PM

Quote: I understand that carpets woven in Islamic cultures always include an error because only god can make things perfect.

Can I use that excuse for stuffing up the words?

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Jim Lad
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:30 PM

You're a hoot, Meself.
Giok: I'm not sure if they were wearing Aran jumpers on the cover but I do remember the album.
They were trying so hard to sound Irish, I was embarrassed for them. Fortunately, they outgrew that and created a whole new identity for Scottish Folk.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 04:01 PM

Take your hat off!? At a loss for words!? Even when I am?! Outwit me!? Cap trick!?

My good man, if I were a foot taller, fifty pounds heavier, twenty-thirty years younger, in top or near-top physical condition, and a master of one of the several Oriental martial arts, or were, alternatively, a Golden Gloves boxing champion - or had recently achieved high marks in a vigorous training course in commando-style hand-to-hand combat - why, I'd soon show you who's at a loss for words!

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:56 PM

I understand that carpets woven in Islamic cultures always include an error because only god can make things perfect.

Does this reveal a connection between the Islands to the west of Ireland and Islam?

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Jim Lad
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:45 PM

Well, I'll take my hat off to you, Meself. You're never at a loss for words. Even when you are.
(if I outwit you one more time, will that be a "Cap trick?)

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: fat B****rd
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:33 PM

The movement is alive and well across the Atlantic. Check out Kendall in the photos section. Yours mischievously fB.                   I'll get me body armour.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:23 PM

Did an Aaron sweater have the frilly bit round the neck cut off?
G.

DARFC

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:19 PM

ps Did her posters also mention "beerds", and "fingers in eers", and "sox with sandals", and "Pyooter mugs", and "tweed bunnets" and "pips"? And if not, why not?

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:16 PM

Was the mention of "Aaron sweaters" supposed to attract or warn customers?

Or did you get free admission if you wore your "Aaron sweater"?

Or were you refused admission if you wore your "Aaron sweater"?

Sign me,
Need to know

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 03:13 PM

The argument on Wikipedia makes interesting reading.

I am reminded of the landlady of a pub who asked us to do some folk nights, but put up posters referring to "Aaron" sweaters. I don't know if she was expecting a klezmer band.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 02:11 PM

Well, Lizzie, while I repeated the grim drowning identification story, I can't say as I ever believed it. I'm sure the stitching IS symbolic, and that women DID weave distinctive designs for their men. I'm think it quite probable a drowning victim or two WERE recognized by their sweater weave, but a young wife weaving a sweater for this purpose is just too morbid to be true. Thanks for the Aran sweater article... very interesting!

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:36 PM

Part of 'The Folker' (Fred Wedlock)

I only sing traditional with me finger in me ear
coz half the tripe I'm singing
I just can't stand to hear
It's a load of cobb-lie-arrrrs
Bar after bar
To the rhytm of an off key Japenese one-string thatched guitar
Yamaha
Yamaha-ha-ha-ha-ha

In Matty Groves I clean forgot the forty second verse
So I sang the twenty-seventh
Twice as loud and in reverse
And no-one noticed
I laughed for hours
Till the tears ran down me trouser leg
And I thought I'd wet me drawers
Lie-lie-lie-lie-lie &etc

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:22 PM

must have been hell when you were a fisherman.

what sort of a fashion statement will I make today - the fishermans smock with espadrilles.......or the arran sweater with a sou'wester hat - and are the thigh high boots too much of a giveaway?

if you're a jolly fisherlad, its a gay experience.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Greg B
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:21 PM

Perhaps Ewan wore his sweater inside, next to the skin.

It would explain his reputation for being cranky.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:21 PM

I have just had a quick Google, but I can't find a piccie, but I'm sure I remember The Corries, and the late lamented Paddy Bell wearing Aran sweaters!
Giok

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:13 PM

A "bunnet"?! Oh, my, Jim - surely you've been on this side of the water long enough to know that only babies and old ladies wear bonnets! If you're going to call it a bonnet, I'll just have to take it back after all! And I won't expect any trouble from a man wears a "bonnet"!

So put that in my pipe and smoke it!


yours feistily,
mslf

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Jim Lad
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:08 PM

Well it's bad enough that The Clancy Brothers & Tommy Makem are singing all my songs but when they start dressing like me too, I have to draw the line.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 01:01 PM

Trouble is, I wouldn't be caught dead in an Aran jumper now and I love them

What's this, a fashion-conscious folkie? Shame on you Jim Lad, you'll bring us into disrepute :-)

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Jim Lad
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:58 PM

It's a Bunnet, ya eejit! Real men don't wear caps. (and what will I do with your pipe?)
Cheers
Anonymous

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:17 PM

(Note to JimLad: you can keep my tweed cap after all - and if you "borrowed" my pipe as well, you can keep it too).

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:14 PM

On the other hand, I can't see why there couldn't have been instances of drowned men being identified by their sweaters, as by other articles of clothing - moreso, really, as the sweater might be one of the articles of clothing more likely to be still on the body, as well as being one of the more familiar, recognizable items.

I hadn't realized that the sweater as a fashion-item was associated with the Kennedys - I always credited/blamed the Clancys, as much as I had ever thought about the matter. Which is extremely little. Might've known, anyway.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:11 PM

I always thought that if you sing wearing an Arran sweater, that it was compulsory that you also sing with your arms akimbo.

Some of these stereotypes are humorous, and noit mean-spirited like all blacks being rapists. More on the order of beatniks wearing berets.

And mimes wearing black and white horizontally striped tank tops.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:05 PM

Or Sweatie Aron.....

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Jim Lad
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 12:04 PM

"In another thread elsewhere - the subject of Aran sweaters as a sort of folk stereotype"

I saw that thread to.
Prior to the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem, folk songs were being kept alive by tenors in penguin suits. "The Rose of Tralee" was then, what "Danny Boy" came to be.
The Aran knits were as much of a statement as the Beatle haircuts.
A very clever piece of marketing, I'd say.
Trouble is, I wouldn't be caught dead in an Aran jumper now and I love them.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 11:57 AM

EJ..I don't want to disappoint you....but....

The story of the Aran/Arran Sweater

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 11:50 AM

I have an aran sweater I bought in Dingle, made by Mrs Mary Kennedy. I haven't seen it in years, but I'm sure its in a box somewhere. Except for skiing, I'm just not a sweater guy because they make me overheat. I suppose if I were a folk-singing Irish fisherman in my wind and rain-swept curragh, it might be just perfect, but the thought of donning one to take the stage and perform in Boston is fairly daunting.
My ex-wife told me a rather grim story about aran sweaters. She said each was woven in an individual pattern so that the woman could identify the body of her if he was drowned. "Here, Michael, see how I've woven ye this knot pattern in yer jumper the better to know ye when ye drown. And I've even woven a wee handle on the back, the better to fish ye out of the drink with."

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:52 AM

great name for a punk folk rocker....Aron Sweaters, or if he was a German blues singer........ Aron Schwetters!

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: leeneia
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:46 AM

I belong to a church choir to which anyone can belong, either singer or instrumentalist. I can amble in and find myself competing with piano, organ, French horn, drums, guitars, clarinet, bad singers and brash singers. One day I realized that I had no idea what sound was coming out of my own mouth. So I cupped my hand over my ear (the ear not facing the congregation), and discovered that I could indeed hear myself that way.

(Our director does draw the line somewhere. She says she will never tolerate a trap set.)

The people who ridicule the hand-behind-the-ear thing probably don't make music enough to realize what it's for. Either that, or they're so tone deaf they can't conceive of what the problem might be.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Scrump
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:29 AM

Aye, the pipe used to be as obligatory as the tankard, the beard, the sweater, the sandals and the pink polystyrene dummy hand clipped onto the side of the head. I suppose the new anti-smoking laws will put a stop to that particular 'avenue of pleasure' (to quote Basil Fawlty).

AFAIR, most of these people didn't actually smoke the pipe, they just used to have it as a prop like the other items above. But I wonder if that will count with the Smoke Police - maybe having the equipment will count just as badly as if you are smoking with it?

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:28 AM

<>

Follow Seth and Show of Hands...and you'll not go far wrong I reckon! ;0)

Or as Cara Dillon would sing.."Black is the colour of....."

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:22 AM

Uncool? UNCOOL? You mean, my Ar[r]an sweater, beard (not to mention closed eyes and finger in ear) just don't cut it with the kids these days? How 'bout the pipe and tweed cap - I suppose they're out too ... ? No wonder the gigs have been drying up these last thirty years ...

Fashion advice welcomed.

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:08 AM

Lizzie, perhaps he is waring a short sleeved, dark Aran with a very low profile?

But:

"Folk music has had a bad rap over the years, in the past any mention of the genre would elicit sniggering jokes about men with beards wearing Arran sweaters. But this is set to change, the increasing popularity of folk-influenced musicians such as KT Tunstall and David Gray has shown that folk doesn't have to be uncool."

This from the site mentioned by Lizzie. It's a great relief to know that we don't have to wear that uniform any longer. Where would we be without the music press?

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:04 AM

Well Bernard I must admit you had me flummoxed, but when I clicked on the links on the page you point out, it took me straight to Aran sweaters made in Ireland. The only thing I can find is this from the Scots Isle of Arran, and that seems to feature designs by a named person on said island.
I shall keep looking, but as a child I spent holidays on the Isle of Arran, and I never yet saw an Arran sweater in the sense of a traditional design, as per the Aran sweater of which we scoff.
Giok

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Flash Company
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 10:03 AM

A quantity surveyor in the Public Bar did sit,
He wore an aran Sweater (the great big chunky knit!)
He supped a nervous pint of ale because he knew e'er long
He had to sing the Folk Club in the Public Bar a song,
Hi me roo collapsem roarem,
Hi me roo fa lay oh
Fol dol riddle diddle diddle iddle ay do
Quantity surveyo!

Not guilty! Richard Stilgoe.

FC

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Lizzie Cornish
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:55 AM

Ooh LOOK!

I just googled 'jokes about Arran sweaters' ....and I got THIS!!

Seth Lakeman & Arran Sweaters

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:32 AM

I would say that anyone who unnecessarily invokes McColl invokes much wrath ......................

................ but on this occasion, whilst the tongue may be in the cheek, the fingers are behind the ear!

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: Bernard
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:29 AM

Sorry to be a party pooper, Giok, but BOTH spellings are correct - there are two locations, one Irish (The Aran Islands are located at the mouth of Galway on the west coast of Ireland) and one Scottish (the Isle of Arran which is the largest island in the Firth Of Clyde) - the Irish one is spelt 'Aran', and the Scottish one is spelt 'Arran' - and both lent their names to uncannily similar woollen jumpers.

Shame on you as a Scot!!

;o)

Admittedly, the tendency is to use the 'Aran' spelling - but not because 'Arran' is wrong!

Here!

Subject: RE: Aran Sweaters - Long Lasting Stereotype
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 09 Mar 07 - 09:26 AM

Okay, he's got the beard, the eyes closed, the finger suspiciously earward - but where's the Ar[r]an sweater?