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Worst singing accent.

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GUEST,Corrector of link 03 Jul 18 - 06:22 AM
GUEST,VISIOR 03 Jul 18 - 06:09 AM
GUEST,Nick Dow 03 Jul 18 - 05:12 AM
The Sandman 01 Jul 18 - 12:30 PM
Jim Carroll 01 Jul 18 - 12:05 PM
The Sandman 01 Jul 18 - 11:25 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Jun 18 - 07:05 PM
The Sandman 30 Jun 18 - 04:24 PM
Jim Carroll 30 Jun 18 - 10:21 AM
GUEST,Visior 30 Jun 18 - 09:25 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Jun 18 - 04:39 AM
FreddyHeadey 30 Jun 18 - 04:03 AM
The Sandman 30 Jun 18 - 03:21 AM
Jim Carroll 30 Jun 18 - 02:46 AM
GUEST,Pancho 29 Jun 18 - 04:29 PM
The Sandman 29 Jun 18 - 04:00 PM
GUEST 29 Jun 18 - 06:54 AM
GUEST,LynnH 29 Jun 18 - 03:40 AM
The Sandman 29 Jun 18 - 03:25 AM
Jim Carroll 29 Jun 18 - 03:17 AM
BobL 29 Jun 18 - 02:54 AM
GUEST,Wellsy 29 Jun 18 - 01:22 AM
Joe Offer 28 Jun 18 - 08:44 PM
BobKnight 28 Jun 18 - 08:30 AM
Jim Carroll 28 Jun 18 - 06:05 AM
Hrothgar 28 Jun 18 - 04:26 AM
keberoxu 27 Jun 18 - 12:32 PM
Jack Campin 27 Jun 18 - 11:04 AM
GaryG 27 Jun 18 - 10:50 AM
dick greenhaus 07 Jul 11 - 04:23 PM
Tug the Cox 07 Jul 11 - 11:39 AM
GUEST,Lash LaRue 08 Aug 10 - 04:26 PM
GUEST,DonMeixner 08 Aug 10 - 01:22 PM
GUEST,Wolf 08 Aug 10 - 07:35 AM
Genie 07 Aug 10 - 06:11 PM
GUEST,Lash LaRue 07 Aug 10 - 09:17 AM
Genie 07 Aug 10 - 02:57 AM
GUEST,Guest, Lash LaRue 06 Aug 10 - 07:41 PM
GUEST 05 Aug 10 - 09:13 AM
Genie 04 Aug 10 - 06:52 PM
open mike 04 Aug 10 - 03:59 PM
GUEST 04 Aug 10 - 03:24 PM
Genie 04 Aug 10 - 02:56 PM
GUEST 04 Aug 10 - 01:40 PM
Joe Offer 04 Aug 10 - 03:14 AM
GUEST 04 Aug 10 - 03:00 AM
Joe Offer 03 Aug 10 - 10:44 PM
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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Corrector of link
Date: 03 Jul 18 - 06:22 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGbLjOl6CZE


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,VISIOR
Date: 03 Jul 18 - 06:09 AM

"https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGbLjOl6CZE">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGbLjOl6CZE THE SHEEP STEALER.I nominate Rev Ken Loveless


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 03 Jul 18 - 05:12 AM

Worst singing accent Ewan McColl trying to sing in a West Country accent (The Sheepstealer)


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 12:30 PM

They undoubtedly did it unconsciously, Im sure the performances were not the same every time, however if it is a question of preserving them as a record or museum piece, why not donate them to a historical society or a folklore society or a museum


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 12:05 PM

I'm tlking babout the recordings Dick - not how people should choose to use them
To answer your question - the old storytellers didn't feel the need to change their performances
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 Jul 18 - 11:25 AM

Should performances be preserved,should they not be different every time


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 07:05 PM

It's not a matter of them being used Dick - anybody is welcome to do that anyway - it's a matter of them being preserved as performances.
THey will be archived as part of our collection of course, but it would be a tribute to the memory of the storytellers and especially to their families to see them circulated widely
We used a couple when Malcolm Taylor was Librarian at Cecil Sharp House established a series of Vaughan Williams Memorial Library Cassettes - now sadly discontinued
The first was one of our recordings of Travellers; "Early in the Month of Spring"; then one on British and Irish Storytellers, '...and That's My Story; next, Malcolm and I edited selections from the Fred Hamer collection, 'Leaves of Life', then one of Yorkshire Singers, "Will's Barn" and finally a Fred Jordan Cassette.

It was a great series - Malcolm got no credit for it and 'them upstairs' finally sat on the project.   
If we can't get a book of these stories published - that type of thing would do just as well.
THere doesn't seem the interest in the U.K. nowadays
We'll see
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 04:24 PM

are there any other story tellers who might use them pete castle for instance


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 10:21 AM

"Why not donate the recordings to Eddie Lenihan"
Not really
Eddie is a performer who 'populates' folk tales raher than keeps tham as they are
He is, of course, welcome to use them when they go on line, (soon, we hope) but our aim is to issue them as examples of traditional storytelling
In my opinion, Eddie'over-edits' what he publishes.
It should be noted that some of thee tales are long - up to an hour, in some cases
Thanks for the suggestion though

There is a chance that our local Traditional heritage group Oidreach an Chláir (O.A.C.) will publish a collection of songs and stories as examples of local culture, but over here, unless you can get a grant or find a sponsor you have to raise the money yourself
O.A.C. struggles to pay the rent on its headquaters
Jim


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Visior
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 09:25 AM

Why not donate the recordings to Eddie Lenihan


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 04:39 AM

There is a problem with all accent when you consider our chosen form of artistic expression and musical pleasure comes from all over Britain and Ireland - each part having its own distinctive accent and vernacular
Back in the early sixties, not long after I'd first got into folk songs
I went with a couple of mates to the Edinburgh Festival and we were drawn to a new production of MacBeth - the main attraction (apart from the three witches dressed in diaphanous, see-through robes) was that Matt McGinn was cast as the Gatekeeper
We didn't understand a **** word!
For years I loved the sound of Jeannie Roberton's singing, ut it took some time and a fair amount of reading to understand what she was singing about

MacColl made a point of introducing ballads into the revival, eventually he breathes life into 175 Child Ballads, many in multiple versions
Personally, I'd be more than happy to forget the occasional iffy Scots pronunciation for that

WE are now faced with a problem of what to do with around fifty Irish traditional stories we recorded from elderly Irish storytellers
We can publish transcriptions, but the printed word is very much inferior to the spoken versions
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 04:03 AM

I cringe and feel awkward when I hear what I consider a "wrong" accent.
Sometimes, I think, I'm justified because it is a middle class Cheshire singer-songwiter singing about meeting his love on the Derbyshire Moors singing in(what sounds to me like) an American accent.

But it's my loss. The singer is happy. The rest of the audience is happy. I wish I could relax and enjoy it.

Other times I feel awkward but I'm just wrong.
There was a BBC radio drama recently and one actor had the most awful and peculiar Scottish accent.   Bad enough that I felt I needed to write to complain.
But I thought I'd better go with some evidence. It turned out that the play was set on Skye and the actor was born and bred in .... Skye.

Accents with one label can vary widely.
JC will probably concur that in Liverpool you can hear the word 'book' as 'bewk' or 'buch'(ch as in loch). Depends which estate your family lived.

I don't particularly like Ewan MacColl's Scottish accent but it was 'his' Scottish accent and I'm content he had enough immersion in Scottish accents that we should accept it as such.
And as JC said our own accent can change as we move round the world. I find it difficult to go on holiday without starting to talk in my version of the local accent. Same with singing songs I've heard and try to sing.
I try to start with an apology especially if there is someone in the audience with the genuine thing.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 03:21 AM

Ewan always had a poor Irish accent when he used it - if he'd continued to do so it would have been a problem nowadays it's only an issue to people who want it to be. quote
like yourself and your friends here
I'm always intrigued by the conversation at local singing sessions here in the West of Ireland when a visitor who has sung in an 'oirish' accent departs - "gently condemnatory" usually sums it up.
I doubt if they would repeat their efforts if they had remained as 'flies on the wall'
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Jun 18 - 02:46 AM

"a Scottish mother and an English Father, "
Ewan's father was from Falkirk (maybe that't moved to Oxfordshire!)
"one area where you take a different line from Ewan MacColl,"
How is that Dick (apart from the fact I disgreed with Ewan on many things while he was alive and we argued about them on several occasions - but you wouldn't be expected to know that?

Early in his career Ewan, like everyone in the revival, were singing in a 'Rainbow Nation' of accents - both Ewan and Bert indulged in the mid-Atlantic American ones occasionally
Alan Lomax appeared on the scene, took them all by the scruff of the neck and demanded to know why they weren't singing their own songs in their own accents - they began to do just that
MacColl was no different than kids from Irish families born in London - his accent was formed from what he heard at home and what he heard in the street - he was (according to a contemporary I once spoke to, Eddie Frow) a mixture of both, depending who he was with.
His parents spoke, their own dialects they had Scots neighbours and friends and they took in a series of Scots lodgers
I lived with Ewan Peggy and his mother, Betsy for a short time when I moved to London - when Ewan and his mother were in deep conversation his accent thickened to much you may as well have been sitting with a Bangladeshi mother and son at times.

Maccoll loved the Scots ballads - he was found singing them to a cinema queue in Manchester by a BBC employee during the Depression
From a report of his first being discovered in 1931.
Prospero and Ariel, G D Bridson.

"MacColl had been out busking for pennies by the Manchester theatres and cinemas. The songs he sang were unusual, Scots songs, Gaelic songs he had learnt from his mother, border ballads and folk-songs. One night while queueing up for the three-and-sixpennies, Kenneth Adam had heard him singing outside the Manchester Paramount. He was suitably impressed. Not only did he give MacColl a handout; he also advised him to go and audition for Archie Harding at the BBC studios in Manchester’s Piccadilly."

MacColl and Bert took it on themselves to popularise the ballads and made the groundbreaking 'Riverside' albums
Ewan's training as an actor taught him to utilise his familiarity with an accent he was well used to to make the ballads and Scots songs accessible to a British and American audience
In m opinion, it was far more genuine than most of the attempts at American accents you still hear in clubs today, which somehow never make it further west than The Isle of Man

I was brought up in a working class area of Liverpool with a broad local accent that everybody took the piss out of when I left home
I moved to Manchester and my accent changed, the same when I moved to London - now I live in the west of Ireland it's changed again - but it has never lot its earlier influences and it broadens when I phone home (I'll bet E.T's did too!)

Ewan always had a poor Irish accent when he used it - if he'd continued to do so it would have been a problem nowadays it's only an issue to people who want it to be
He had a not bad Liverpool accent when he sang sea songs in the early days - he never kept that up.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Pancho
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 04:29 PM

Know what you mean, Sandman but what about his "Irish" accent re The Galway Races? Third rate stage Irish.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 04:00 PM

I love the Scots ballads, but I wouldn't dream of attempting them in a Scots accent.Jim Carroll.
Remarkable, one area where you take a different line from Ewan MacColl, who was born in Salford had a Scottish mother and an English Father, and IMO only got the Scottish accent, half right.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 06:54 AM

As I have lived on both sides of the Atlantic, I sometimes find myself singing a couple of words in the "wrong" accent. Nevertheless, I am happy to report that a fellow friend and singer (who is a stickler for authenticity) does give me a bit of slack for my hybrid deliveries.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,LynnH
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 03:40 AM

Just about anybody trying to sing in a foreign language - some can do it, a lot can't.
I live in Germany and have, in the recent past, recorded english voice-overs for various companies etc. A lot of companies here specify that mythical wonder 'Mid-Atlantic' english. Nobody has ever been able to convincingly demonstrate to me what that is and what it sounds like when it's at home.

Lynn


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 03:25 AM

Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jack Campin - PM
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 11:04 AM

I have yet to hear any British or American singer do a convincing Australian accent (except Eric Bogle but he doesn't count as British any more)
have a listen to Gerry Hallom, or Martin Wyndham Read


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 03:17 AM

" In every music venue we walked into in the West of Ireland"
You must have gone to Doolin Joe - full of Yanks wearing stetsons
In our part you can't get into the pubs for youngsters playing that **** diddley-di on pipes, concertinas, flutes and fiddles
Unfortunately, singing is still a bit thin on the ground, but it's getting there gradually
Hopefully, when it does, it'll come without that dreadful Mid-Atlantic drawl

Seriously, most of the good traditional songs and ballads transmit into a fair, neutral accent with a little work
I love the Scots ballads, but I wouldn't dream of attempting them in a Scots accent
The ones that don't without losing the beauty of the vernacular should be left to those who speak the language
Jim


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: BobL
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 02:54 AM

"Nothing is guaranteed to bring tears to the eyes of a native speaker so much as a Yorkshireman trying to speak Welsh"


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Wellsy
Date: 29 Jun 18 - 01:22 AM

Wow, we Australians have escaped remarkably unscathed in this thread. Didn't anybody think of Rolf Harris ? Now that would annoy the pants off anyone ..... errrr, sorry. Wrong metaphor.

Oh, and Aussie bush band singing is an acquired taste. I love it meself, but I know it would make some of you sensitive Brits come out in boils.
As for Eric Bogle, whom Jack Campin mentioned: sorry Jack, Eric doesn't come within coo-ee [ viz, a long way] of an Aussie accent. His affected twang is deliberate, and good!, comic relief.

But to put my 2 bob's worth into the argument - a couple of contenders as yet unmentioned I think: Rita and Sarah Keane ( of ethnomusicological worth only), and .... sorry to speak even more ill of the deceased ... Margaret Barry ( just torture).


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 08:44 PM

My first trip to Ireland was about 2000. In every music venue we walked into in the West of Ireland, people were wearing cowboy hats and singing with a twang. They sounded very much like singers in the American Southwest - but singers in the U.S. Southwest don't sound very authentic, either.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: BobKnight
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 08:30 AM

Being from Aberdeen, and having a quite distinctive accent, it amused me no end to hear an Australian singing one of my songs, written in Scots/Doric. (Doric is the Aberdeen/shire variant of Scots.)He was making quite a decent job of it too, until I coincidentally entered the room behind him and everybody started laughing.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 06:05 AM

I'm always intrigued by the conversation at local singing sessions here in the West of Ireland when a visitor who has sung in an 'oirish' accent departs - "gently condemnatory" usually sums it up.
I doubt if they would repeat their efforts if they had remained as 'flies on the wall'
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Hrothgar
Date: 28 Jun 18 - 04:26 AM

My teeth are on edge when I hear somebody with an Australian accent singing a Scots song pronouncing the words as spelt - as in the "Twa Heids Are Better Than Yin" mentioned above - without any vestige of a Scots accent.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 12:32 PM

Fogerty also Hoid It T'roo de Grape Vine.
And I wanted somebody to sit on him. Hard.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 11:04 AM

I have yet to hear any British or American singer do a convincing Australian accent (except Eric Bogle but he doesn't count as British any more).


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GaryG
Date: 27 Jun 18 - 10:50 AM

Fogerty's accent has to be contrived. He grew up in El Cerrito, one town over from Berkeley, and speaks in a normal California accent. The weird accent only appears on some songs, Proud Mary, Green Rivah, Born on the Bayou, Keep on Chooglin, etc. Great music for sure.

Concerning Dylan, I think he tried to cultivate an Okie accent due to his admiration for Woody. It is a small matter considering his genius as a writer.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 04:23 PM

If you want to get an idea of where MacColl's Scottish accent came from, give a listen to "A Scottish Garland" (CAMSCO 702) which consists of songs sung by Ewan MacColl an Betsy Miller (his mother). Some good stuff there.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 11:39 AM

This is from Wiki. Of course macColl's scottish accent was based on deep immersion in scottish culture....not faked.

MacColl was born as James Henry Miller in Broughton, Salford, Lancashire to Scottish parents, William Miller and Betsy Miller née Hendry. Both of his parents were socialists and William Miller was an iron-moulder and militant trade unionist who had moved to Salford with his wife to look for work after being blacklisted in almost every foundry in Scotland.[1] They lived amongst a group of émigré Scots and Jimmy, their only surviving child of four, was brought up in an atmosphere of fierce political debate interspersed with the large repertoire of songs and stories his parents had brought from Scotland.[1]


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Lash LaRue
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 04:26 PM

Good timing, Genie. Those were among the best years for living in Hogtown. I was there then, too; had an apartment on top of Switzer's Deli (gone) on Spadina across from the Victory Theatre (also gone).

Grossman's Tavern is still there. And, thank goodness, Kensington Market, too; most of the Jewish shopkeepers have been replaced by Jamaicans and Vietnamese. I used to see the wonderful Bob Snider busking in the doorways to keep out of the rain.

You say you had trouble understanding the French-Canadian joual spoken in Montreal? Coliss! Tabernak!

Lash LaRue


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 01:22 PM

Thanks Wolf, I appreciate the information regards dialect and accent.

Don


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Wolf
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 07:35 AM

I would like to apologize to Old Hippie for the posts I directed at him/her. In retrospect and upon closer inspection, the tone and choice of words I employed, while impassioned, only diminishes myself.

Thanks for your understanding.

Wolf


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 06:11 PM

Early '70s. Then one summer in Montreal (where the "French" Canadians don't sound anything like the French I learned in school - LOL).


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Lash LaRue
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 09:17 AM

Nothing "wrong" about it. It is what it is. Ya gotta admit it can be, shall we say, a tad "humorous" at times.

When I hear "unusual" pronunciations and speech patterns,
I am intrigued and try to ascertain the possible origin and/or place of raising of the speaker/singer.

Was recently stumped by my oral surgeon's curious accent. Just couldn't place it and was thinking perhaps umh, working-class Baltimore?

Turned out he as a transplanted French-Canadian from Quebec. It was his English surname that threw me.

I heard every conceivable mish-mash of accents and dialects growing up
in an area of working-class immigrants. I find the many ways English is spoken thoroughly fascinating. Listen to Willie Nelson and Toots Maytal singing "Still is Still Moving to Me" for an unusual pairing
of accents.

So, Genie - what years were you living in Tronna?

Peace,

Lash LaRue


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 02:57 AM

Well, DK if Fogerty's 'accent' is affected or natural, but it's not all that unusual for someone (like me) who has lived all over the place to end up with a real 'mongrelized' accent. When I spent a year in Texas in my teens, I probably came away with an accent that was a little bit central Texas, a little bit remnants of Newark, and a lot of central Illinois.    Then when I later spent 3 years in Toronto, I added more than traces of that to my speech patterns.
Why not Biloxi and Brooklyn?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Guest, Lash LaRue
Date: 06 Aug 10 - 07:41 PM

(Have tried to register as a member 3 times unsuccessfully.)

Worst singing accent?
John Fogerty. A combination of Biloxi and Brooklyn:
"Big wheel keep on TOININ
Proud Mary keep on BOININ"

(Rollin', rollin', etc . . .

Lash LaRue


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 10 - 09:13 AM

Old Hippie writes BOTH that someone "loaned" him my CD and that (Heaven forfend!) he didn't buy it, but it was "gifted" to him and it was "unintelligible." He also said it "went straight into the trash." Who would do that with a loaned copy?

Here's what I think: Old Hippie got a hold of a burned copy with no cover or liner notes and Old Hippie thought I was supposed to be singing in English . . .

Transmigrations: Gilgul (Tzadik Records) is sung entirely in Yiddish.
The cover alone would have made that pretty clear, not to mention the
extensive liner notes.

Now, Old Hippie, I am waiting for you to tell us you are a fluent Yiddish-speaker and found me singing in my my native language "unintelligible." LOL.

Peace and Love,

Wolf Krakowski
www.kamea.com


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 06:52 PM

Oh, I know why the directors (e.g., DeMille) used different accents, Guest. I just think it's interesting that they chose "The Queen's English" to represent the Romans (except for the lower-class ones) and American English to represent most of the non-Roman central characters (e.g., Ben Hur, Moses, Jason, Odysseus, etc.)


Anyway, if you guys want to hear a gawdawfully embarrasing faking of an accent and dialect, check out
Nelson Eddy singing "Shortnin' Bread."

Yeah, I know, Al Jolson and others did that sort of thing too, but I think this one takes the cake (or the sho't'nin' bread, as de case mebbe).


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: open mike
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:59 PM

When performing My Fair Lady in Sweden I hear that the Cockney accent is portrayed as the speech from Skane, in southern Sweden.

(i originally read the thread tittle as "worst singing accident"
which thread I will now start....)


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:24 PM

Genie:
Good point, hpwever, not the one I was hoping to make.
In those movies, the different populations were made to speak
as they did purposely to facilitate the audience's perception
of specific groups.

In attempting to elucidate the origins of stage Yiddish, I was
hoping to try and get you to picture, let's say, three brothers
(raised in the same home, etc.) being portrayed by actors with
wildly different dialects.

Peace,

Wolf
www.kamea.com


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 02:56 PM

[[Imagine casting a play with actors from Liverpool, Jamaica and Mississippi and allowing them all to speak in their native dialects. ]]

You mean sort of like those old Hollywood epic Biblical movies where the Jews sounded like middle America, the Roman soldiers & nobility spoke with an upper-class English accent, and the Roman peasants sounded Cockney? ; D


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 01:40 PM

You are correct, Don.

A DIALECT refers to REGIONAL speech and includes particularities
in GRAMMAR, VOCABULARY and ACCENT.
An ACCENT refers to PHONOLOGY, - eg. STRESS & INTONATION and SOUND PATTERNS.

In Yiddish, there are four main dialects. But there are overlaps.
People whose exposure to Yiddish is only from performance (and not family, community, education) should note that, in the Yiddish theatre, dialects were "standardized" or melded to create a workable "stage Yiddish" so that the actors would all sound like they originate from / inhabit the same place. This is the Yiddish most people find familiar.

Imagine casting a play with actors from Liverpool, Jamaica and Mississippi and allowing them all to speak in their native dialects.


Peace,

Wolf
www.kamea.com


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:14 AM

As I suspected, Wolf, your accent has authentic roots. My training is in German, which I've spoken most of my life; and I picked up Yiddish by listening to a lot of recordings - many from singers who came from Poland and Lithuania. I think my Yiddish accent is pretty good, but probably heavily influenced by German.
But authenticity aside, I have my Judy Bressler fantasies. I love her voice, despite her New York/New England Yiddish accent.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:00 AM

Hi Joe:

Yiddish is my first language; I am a native-speaker, born and partly raised in Europe. Yiddish was spoken in the home and used as the language of instruction in =kheder=. What confuses you is my particular =poylish= (Polish) DIALECT, not often heard on recordings. Only the culturally disadvantaged would make a thoughtless statement claiming that his Yiddish "is no better," but you'll have to forgive me for not having the time or space to adequately school you. That said, I have never played klezmer music in my life, but of course, you, like many others, are mistakenly under the false impression that anything Yiddish should be classified as "klezmer." NOT. Klezmer is the INSTRUMENTAL party music of East European Jews. My VOCAL repertoire is drawn from Yiddish SONG - folk, theatre and popular and re-animated as country-rock, rhythm 'n blues, reggae, etc. Not enough space to explain Judy Bressler's Yiddish, but can say it is either second (most likely third) generation American/Litvish/theatre Yiddish. Enjoy your fantasies, Joe & zaa mir gezint, Wolf. PS Read my reviews @ www.kamea.com


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 10:44 PM

Hey, Wolf Krakowski isn't your usual Klezmer band, but I like his Transmigrations CD. Maybe I don't mind his accent, because my Yiddish is no better...Wolf, what language were you raised speaking?

Judy Bressler you ain't, Wolf. Judy Bressler gives me fantasies. I'm rather glad you don't.

-Joe-

P.S. Wolf, if you performed at Gainesville, does that mean you know John Johnson and the 24th Street Klezmer Band?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 10:07 PM

Hey, Old Hippie:

Thanks for a novel and humorous way of plugging my (first Yiddish) CD.

Originally self-produced and self-released (Kame'a Media 1996) it was re-issued in 2001 on Tzadik Records (and followed in 2002 by "Goyrl: Destiny," also on Tzadik Records. Got a couple of videos up on YouTube of the Lonesome Brothers and myself in performance at University of Florida (Gainesville). We're all old hippies . . .

and still rockin', baby!

Peace and Love,

Wolf Krakowski
www.kamea.com


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 11:39 AM

I am a person from the middle of New York State. The idea that I would talk like a New Yorker and sing like and irishman or a Scot when I do Irish or Scottish songs seems wrong to me. That being said I will sing in a "Voice" if I am doing a comedy tune like Henry The VIII. But were I to sing "Carrickfergus" it would come out like Don Meixner singing "Carrickfergus".

Are we splitting airs but isn't singing in an accent different than singing in a dialect?

Don


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Jan Burda
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 10:10 AM

I take it no one has heard Tom Waits.


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