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BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 18 Dec 13 - 11:01 PM No, my back is not against the wall. It is patently obvious that you are not asking for information, you just want to argue to puff yourself up. I GIVE you the information, and then you move, not only the goal posts, but the whole damned field. Obvious tactics of a troll. CLICKY. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST Date: 18 Dec 13 - 10:09 PM Firth: "P. S. And, no, "troll" is what you are. You've been a troll ever since you came on Mudcat. I'm waiting for you to go the way of "Martin Gibson," who made himself so obnoxious his IP number got blocked." I guess the folks who ran out of answers, and whose backs are against the wall, then turn to the use of the word 'Troll'. So, is troll another word for, "I give up, you are just agitating for no reason!..Don't tell anyone that I ran out of answers!" Get serious! You sound like your back is REALLY against the wall!!! Hey, guess what? Your 'Liberal Fathers' are weak 'Johnny come lately' versions of the real thing.... This happened as a result of........ of something that made THIS alive! ..and for those who 'got it' it lives within them....not something to co-coerce OTHERS TO DO! ...so profiteers can rip you off, and keep you poor and needy! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 18 Dec 13 - 06:17 PM Those who corrupt Liberalism in the name of Liberalism are not really Liberals. You can call yourself a Liberal 'til hell freezes over, but if you act like Attila the Hun, you ain't no Liberal. That does not invalidate the principles of Liberalism. I have given you "salient points" all through this discussion, but you are either too thick-headed or mean-spirited to get it. Don Firth P. S. And, no, "troll" is what you are. You've been a troll ever since you came on Mudcat. I'm waiting for you to go the way of "Martin Gibson," who made himself so obnoxious his IP number got blocked. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 Dec 13 - 03:26 PM Speaking of 'PROCESS'...then why aren't you objecting to those who subvert 'liberalism' because of their CORRUPT practices??...especially in the name of 'Liberalism?' It's not any less corrupt than the 'so-called Conservatives' manipulating 'patriotism', for their mindset(which, BTW, they had defined FOR them)..just like liberals are having their mindset defined for them by corrupt party 'leaders'...just so they can get away with their criminal cons!!! Example: Kissinger trading Saudi Arabia a moratorium on domestic drilling, as long as Saudi Arabia buys our bonds.....and then selling the idea to the 'environmentalists',(through Carter) that it was all about the environment????? That was no Environmental victory....it was a con!...and as soon as Saudi Arabia gets under attack, from any number of(our?) supported groups, we drill here, leaving the 'old regime' holding a bunch of worthless bonds...meanwhile, SOMEBODY makes off with the profits(being as they won't have to be paid back)...and do you think THAT is going to find its way into the hands of the needy????? .....and Carter was USED to pull it off, under the guise of 'liberal' causes. I'm telling you that BOTH sides are working in tandem...and to be very careful on also being used! (Actually, it's a rather slick maneuver by some very powerful people..with FORESIGHT!)....but it's not 'Liberalism' OR Conservatism'. And one more pertinent note: When 'Racist' and 'Bigot', and other stupid name calling gets thrown around, I guess the folks who ran out of answers, and whose backs are against the wall, then turn to the use of the word 'Troll'. So, is troll another word for, "I give up, you are just agitating for no reason!..Don't tell anyone that I ran out of answers!" Get serious! You're not fooling any one with your mutual 'pats on the backs'. If you have a salient point..put it forth, and talk it over like your point has a point! YOU might find out that you've been manipulated, and if the point is made CORRECTLY, the person you are 'debating' with might learn something as well.......that is, if there is something REAL to be taught! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 18 Dec 13 - 02:27 PM And a very slow learner, if at all. I EXPLAINED QUITE CLEARLY, you dunce, that Liberalism is a PROCESS, not a goal, per se. The end goal, if it can be said that there IS an end goal, is a Liberal Society, in which everyone has a chance to realize their best potential, and the sick, disabled, and elderly need not worry about how they're going to manage--on top of all their other difficulties. Wait a minute! I think I said all this before. But Goofball doesn't really care. He just wants to be snotty. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 Dec 13 - 02:06 PM You think?? YOU're the one who alluded to 'liberals' goal is never reached....like it's their job to keep bitching forever...but have no set goal..just go back and read your posts. What I asked from you, was, "Tell us what the end 'goal' of liberalism is..and/or how Obama's policies, that you defend as liberal, are steps in that direction." You keep dancing around..until(sorta) you posted, "There is no "end goal" to a policy of Liberalism. "Liberal" should be thought of, not as a noun, but as a verb." Now, that being said, Has it occurred to you that there are those(corporations, political groups, government etc, etc.) that has gone on to exploit 'liberalism' just to stuff their own pockets, or use it for paybacks...while under the guise of 'helping people who need it' are really exploiting them, for a fast LARGE buck??? Wouldn't you call the 'SO-CALLED liberals'??..and whom have done more to hurt TRUE liberal causes than even those 'Right Wing Conservatives'??? .......and what's really the pisser, is when the parrots defend the rip-off artists, all in the 'good name' of 'caring'!!! NOBODY NEEDS to believe their lies!!....So why repeat them?? (maybe it's just a bad habit)....and as far as the need to bitch more, to get something done...shit, just listen to a post-menopausal spouse!(or in your case, be one)!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 18 Dec 13 - 01:53 PM Well, yeah, Greg, he's got the art of trolling down pretty well. But when it comes to exceptional trolls, we have an exception troll right here in Seattle, in the Fremont District (said to be the Center of the Universe). He resides under the north end of the Aurora Avenue (Highway 99) bridge. Fremont Troll. Whereas, I believe Goofballupagus is more THIS species of troll. Or perhaps THIS? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Greg F. Date: 18 Dec 13 - 01:23 PM Let's face it, he's nothing but a common troll! I beg to differ - he's a rather exceptional troll. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 18 Dec 13 - 12:54 PM Thank you, Gillymor. I keep making the mistake of assuming that Goofy is actually interested in the country's politics when all he really wants to do is bitch and complain, express hate for President Obama, and trash me and a couple of others. Let's face it, he's nothing but a common troll! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,gillymor Date: 18 Dec 13 - 12:17 PM Goofy, Your little dog and pony show designed to ridicule Don Firth is pathetic. Believe me, people on this forum see right through it. Mr. Firth hardly needs me to defend him as he is an intelligent, well informed and thoughtful poster who articulates his positions very clearly. You could learn a lot from him if you didn't have your head up your ass. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 18 Dec 13 - 11:57 AM WHAT????????!!!!???? I thought we were having a useful exchange, for once.......(though I don't totally agree with everything you put forth Firth). Actually the last 3-5 posts are VERY telling. You seem to be pretty fragile, in the emotional department. You just flew off the handle for no reason. GfS P.S. See From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 Dec 13 - 10:10 PM .........Last two sentences! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 17 Dec 13 - 11:43 PM Well, there it is, folks. Goofball isn't interested in discussing matters of political philosophy. He just wants to attack me personally. Well, I'm not going to play that game. (And I know what he's going to say in his next post.) Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 Dec 13 - 11:28 PM What's wrong with you?? There is nothing in my last post that is inaccurate, or that takes a poke at you....Oh, and thank you for pointing the direction to John Locke. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 17 Dec 13 - 10:44 PM Goofball, you're an idiot! I mentioned John Locke as one of the early advocates of Liberalism, BUT, that there were many things to be worked out yet. And I emphasized John Stuart Mill, even recommending his book, On Liberty, which you obviously ignored, choosing to fasten on Locke's mistakes. In the same sense as Athens being the first home of Democracy, it made many mistakes to begin with. But it was the FIRST, and there were wrinkles to be ironed out. Are you deliberately misconstruing what I said or are you really that much of a fool? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 Dec 13 - 10:10 PM Oh good grief!..here we go again..the one trick ponies frothing about racism just exactly like I just pointed out in my previous post! HEY Bobert! You can thank John Locke, the 'Father of Liberalism' for that!! Here is an excerpt of my response to Firth, who referred me to John Locke, as the 'Father of Liberalism'.... "..and John Locke had a few good ideas..but considering slaves as property wasn't one of them....even Karl Marx clocked him for being a hypocrite for that! (Maybe that's why you like him so much). Funny, that Bobert probably didn't know that about your idol, being as Locke was also a huge investor in the 'Royal African Company' The MAJOR slave traders. He also was a participant in drafting the 'Fundamental Constitutions of Carolina' (Bobert country)which established a feudal aristocracy and gave a master absolute power over his slaves...AND was quoted in the Constitution(well almost)..his phrase 'life liberty and the pursuit of property', was changed to 'life liberty and the pursuit of happiness'....because in Locke's version 'property meant slaves!!" Gosh, did you know that?? No wonder the South is so absorbed with liberalism and prejudice! Food for thought.....don't get indigestion...after all it was Firth that has been carrying on about Locke and liberalism... Personally I think Conservatism/Liberalism and/or party politics is just a mental disorder......sorta like schizophrenia....you can't distinguish reality from fantasy, and illusion! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 17 Dec 13 - 07:42 PM I'm sure Bobert is right! I'm an old geek and I've been around since FDR's administration. There are damned few presidents who have had to fly through as much flak as he did—Conservatives really hated him because he used the power of government to benefit, not their interests, but the interests of the entire nation, which was undergoing a major depression at the time--25% unemployment! Yet, as nasty as the attacks against Roosevelt were ("He's a Jew who's trying a Jewish take-over of the United States. After all, his name is really 'Rosenfelt!'"—not true, incidentally. "He's a Socialist, he's a Communist," (we didn't know for sure in the thirties what a Nazi was, but they called him that too, despite the fact that many who hated him were Nazi sympathizers—interestingly enough!!). But as bad as it was, it wasn't as bad as some of the hateful attacks being made on President Barack Obama. Now, just why might that be, eh? What's "different" about President Obama? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Bobert Date: 17 Dec 13 - 07:07 PM Yup, Amos... When asked about specific beefs about policy the haters can only come up with very generalized criticism such as "Obamacare is a failure"??? Well, that say nothing at all... This is 100% about Obama being black... Here he went and pushed a very Republican health care reform bill and is now being criticized by the Republicans for doing so??? No, this is all about race and racism... Not policies... Just pure disgusting racists acting out like their daddies and grand daddies did in the Klan... I have seen it all before... This ain't imagined... This is the real deal... The Tea Party is the new KKK... Period!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 17 Dec 13 - 06:17 PM Goofball, what the hell are you blithering on about? I never said that I am a member of the Democratic--or any other party. I am a Liberal, which is not the same thing as a Democrat. Although the Democratic Party is a lot closer to Liberal ideals than the Republican Party is. Nor did I ever say that I was all that enthralled with Barack Obama. But come election time, he was the best candidate who actually had a chance of winning--against a really bad alternative. I think Obama's heart is in the right place, but he simply doesn't have the charisma it takes to ram his ideas through an obstructionist Congress. The last truly effective Liberal president this country has had was Franklin D. Roosevelt. He was very effective--for reasons I haven't time to go into right now. Later. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 Dec 13 - 05:52 PM Firth: "There is no "end goal" to a policy of Liberalism. "Liberal" should be thought of, not as a noun, but as a verb. It is a process of establishing and maintaining the freest possible society consistent with good order. In a Liberal society, everyone is free to seek to realize his or her own potential." Then, if that's the case, you would be calling attention to the CORRUPTION that has been a cancer in the body politic...regardless of party...being as both have been corrupted...wouldn't you say?? It is through that corruption of both our politicians and basic Constitution(remember, that new set of rules put in place by those VERY progressive founding fathers) that make it possible to choke off benefits for those who may be in need, just to stuff the pockets of the manipulators of crooked agendas, and corruptors, blurring the lines of the boundaries...which were originally set in place, to insure fair play for everyone. How can one say they are against the policies of one party or another..and then do so by employing lies, deceit and misinformation...custom made, to suit one party or the other??? For some reason, the 'so-calleds' (either party or 'mindset') seem to promote corruption...if it comes from their respected party..and blast those from the 'other', when the 'other' is merely pointing it out?? How can ANYONE look at the present Obamacare program and not see it as a scam and/or a hotbed for scammers..whether it be the Government? the insurance companies, healthcare providers, big Pharma, or just your favorite identity thief?? I would have been in favor of the government spending their time an resources cleaning up the old system from it's corruption.....except what stood in that way, was the corrupt pieces of shit who obstructed that process...from BOTH parties. Aetna insurance(on the 'Exchange') with 50 million+ insured rejected Obama's 'fix', by letting those cancelled programs be reinstated....My my my, how 'patriotic' of them...Why????....They aren't going to consider people or their well-being over their ill gained profits!!..Are you kidding me??!!...Their bullshit corruption help form the ACA in the first place, to benefit themselves..why would they want anything fixed???...but if you or I point that out, some 'political parrot mental midgets' start jumping up and down frantically frothing, shouting 'Racist..bigot' and other such nonsense....and the root of the problem gets overshadowed, forgotten and rolls away on the wheels of, 'Because he's in the 'other' party'. ....and YOU can't deny that you've been innocent of that yourself! Perhaps it's one's own transgressions into corrupt behavior, that causes those people to think they have to cut some slack. The whole argument about Conservative vs Liberal is so much bullshit, anyway....It creates the atmosphere for the corrupt manipulators to get away with virtually anything they want, never satisfying either 'group', while they open and shut doors to their own purposes, at will....and get away Scott free, while the 'so-calleds' are pointing fingers and screaming at each other!! Do you think that the people who caused the problems in the first place are just going to jump up and 'fix' them???..Fuck no!..That means they'd have to admit they were wrong, and have to cut their ill gained profits, that they're making to correct the error....why do that, when you can just blame another group. Example: Bobert still blames the Republicans for Bill Clinton signing the bill repealing Glass-Steagal!...meanwhile the villains got away Scott free with massive profits damaging lives of MILLIONS, and fucking up economies across the world!!...and as long as we're blaming everybody BUT those culpable, AND NOT HOLDING THEM RESPONSIBLE, they are just laughing all the way to the new bank their building! This Obamacare bullshit is another one.....forced to sign up to pay more money, to the people who don't even know you signed up, less benefits, and penalized for not signing up..onto an unsecured, inefficient, nonworking website!...with a deadline or face fines! What a fucking Win-Win scam for everyone but the people needing healthcare!!! Do you think that the lobbyists nor the people they're giving blowjobs to, give a rat's ass about anyone who is going to die, because of it???? Fuck no!....just blame it on someone else...let the parrots pick up the cause!....."Call room service, I need a softer pillow.." GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 17 Dec 13 - 03:55 PM There is no "end goal" to a policy of Liberalism. "Liberal" should be thought of, not as a noun, but as a verb. It is a process of establishing and maintaining the freest possible society consistent with good order. In a Liberal society, everyone is free to seek to realize his or her own potential. But not at the expense of others, such as the employer who reaps huge profits while paying his employees, who make all this wealth possible, less than a living wage. And then, who ships all his profits to a numbered Swiss bank account or to an account in the Cayman Islands to avoid paying his fair share of taxes. Liberalism also seeks to provide a safety net for those who are simply unable to make it on their own, such as the disabled, or the elderly who are no longer able to earn a living. It also seeks to make certain that people are not subject to a burden of debt for medical expenses should they need health care. In many other countries, health care is free to the patient, paid for by the government, which also makes certain than charges for various aspects of health care are not exorbitant (such as a durable health care equipment company charging $675.00 for a pair of power wheelchair batteries when a pair of the exact, same batteries should cost no more than $150.00!). It's a simple enough aim. But there are those who want to profit from the efforts of others, and who will exploit them, given the chance. That's a much oversimplified view, but that is the basic idea. The rest is refinement and commentary. Naturally, those who would exploit others do everything they can to bad-mouth those who hold an ethical philosophy of Liberalism and who work to frustrate their efforts to prey on others. They call them "so-called liberals" or "loony liberals" and generally try to denigrate them. But just remember—you are only one virus--or one auto accident, or one false step on a stairway from finding yourself needing that safety net that the "loony liberals" are fighting to make sure is always there for you, should you—when you—need it. So, think twice before participating in—The Big Lie. And a part of that "Big Lie" is that "today's Liberals are tomorrow's Conservatives." What about Ted Turner, who built a sports stadium in Atlanta, Georgia on his own dime! He didn't try to get the taxpayers to pay for it, he paid for it himself. Then, when he gave away $1 billion to charity, and received savage criticism from several of his fellow billionaires (they felt he was "setting a bad example" [inadvertently shaming them by doing so]), he responded by saying, "Who in the hell NEEDS that much money, anyway!??" And billionaire Warren Buffet, who has given away billions. On CBS's "60 Minutes" a couple of weeks ago, he made the statement, along with Bill and Melinda Gates, that if the billionaires in this country would give at least half of their wealth to charities or other good causes, they would essentially end poverty in this country, and many other countries as well, but it would leave them enough to maintain their manor houses, fleets of limousines, and yachts. "You can only spend so much money," he said, "and the rest of it lays idle, doing nothing!" Bill and Melinda Gates have given away a vast percentage of their wealth, much more than half, and said that they are determined to eradicate polio and several other diseases from the earth. There, Goofy, are your "loony liberals." What have YOU done lately? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 17 Dec 13 - 04:24 AM ....like John Locke's influence of the 'progressives' of the day....broke away from the church/state tyranny?....made people sovereign, instead of the church/ state(Second Reich) and was rather revolutionary in concept....and while people tried to escape from the church/state's bondage, they found a place, across the sea, where they could get away from the elitist control freaks, to do and live the way they wanted...without the fucknut state/church/government fucking with them, and keeping them poor with heavy taxation, the feudal system, and control of the money.....YEAH!!..let's get the hell away from those jerk-offs.....and they came here.....and they wrote those rules to insure that shit wouldn't happen again...fought a couple of wars, too...and the got together and wrote the new rules...an extremely progressive and ballsy concept.....it was to be the rule of the land. But first, they had to serve notice to everything that controlled them from their old countries....and called it a Declaration of Independence.....and then drew up the Constitution...COMPLETELY RADICAL.....but even then, there were those who saw ways to make profits, and hustle unsuspecting people and companies..and to do that, they looked for ways to control the money....just like what they fled from...but to pull it off, the hustlers had to get around the new rules....and buy politicians to look the other way, and to even get the public convinced that it would be in their best interest, to give up their money and freedom...and entrust it into the hands of the hustlers...."Now if only we could get around those damn rules!!" There were even hustlers who promoted their con game, by convincing people to believe that THEIR group are the ones who believed in those radically progressive rules.....but alas, they also sold the people a bad bill of goods, just to fleece them, and conned them into getting the people, to allow them to do their thinking for them....while of course, fleecing them too.... As I posted previously....today's Liberals are tomorrow's Conservatives........just ask anyone who wants to hold on to those earlier radically progressive rules! ;~P GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Dec 13 - 11:50 PM So, when they get to the 'end goal', what next?....write new rules?? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 16 Dec 13 - 10:14 PM The "end goal," as you so quaintly put it, is inherent in the overall goals of the Liberal philosophy, which you will find laid out clearly in John Stuart Mill's On Liberty. As I keep saying, why should I spend my valuable time trying to educated you when the answers to your questions are laid out clearly by one of the major founders of the school of thought, easily available from any library for you to read for yourself. I'm sure President Obama has read it quite thoroughly. It's a tad more difficult than My name is Dick.but it's not a great, thick tome. My copy is a paperback and it runs maybe 100 pages. YOU might be able to finish it in a year or two. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Amos Date: 16 Dec 13 - 10:02 PM It strikes me as odd--if not obscene--that the most virulent critics of Obama's presidency seem incapable of identifying specific sins with any detail, and resort instead to sweeping descriptions that are asbout as clear as the middle of a frenetic squall in a dark night. My impression, backed up by a lot of charts and statistics I have seen, is that the overall condition of the country is improving in spite of heavy obstructionism and almost psychotic reactionary stopping. Here are a number of telling statistical charts that paint the picture. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Dec 13 - 07:28 PM Well...she should...she raised him... Now... back to this: "Tell us what the end 'goal' of liberalism is..and/or how Obama's policies, that you defend as liberal, are steps in that direction. Simple...you even brought it up. Tell us what you meant." the other one wasn't so bad, now was it? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 16 Dec 13 - 07:14 PM ". . . knew. . . ." Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 16 Dec 13 - 06:09 PM When Barbara Bush first heard that her son George was running for President, her response was to stand there for several seconds with her mouth open in amazement and horror. Then she rolled her eyes. I think she new something the rest of the country was to find out the hard way! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Dec 13 - 05:04 PM ...and if you want to see Babara Bush....look at the picture of George Washington on a one dollar bill!!!..Hold them up, next to each other.. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Dec 13 - 05:02 PM .....but Marylin and Jackie????..come on now! As a side note, Bill Clinton has absolutely NO taste.... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 16 Dec 13 - 04:43 PM The times and the foreign and domestic situations were quite different between their administrations. Each dealt with quite different circumstances and acted in a manner appropriate to the situation. A basic knowledge of recent (twentieth and twenty-first century history) history should tell you that. And although Jackie was a very beautiful woman, Michelle is gorgeous! Even Vogue Magazine thinks so. CLICKY. (Unless, of course, you have a prejudice against girls with nice tans.) Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Dec 13 - 04:28 PM Oh, I forgot...in October of '63 he(JFK) signed a directive, reducing any military in Vietnam and called for our un-involvement in what was termed(at the time) as their 'civil war'...(those pesky oil companies knew that there were huge oil deposits in the Gulf of Ton-kin...you mean those same oil companies who had the supply ship for the Bay of Pigs....Zapata oil, and the freighter 'Barbara'...Zapata is owned by the Bushes, and the 'Barbara' was named after George Herbert's wife, as he also named his planes during WWII..... Did you know that? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Dec 13 - 03:56 PM Oh, stop acting so snobby(it's unbecoming)...you aren't as educated as you try to make off. Here, I'll give you one...(almost)...Social Security and Medicare (though Obamacare has in it the shrinking of funding for both Medicare and Medicaid over time...) Taxes? nope..JFK thought that cutting taxes was good for the economy..in fact Reagan was criticized (or praised) for his 'Reaganomics' as not being original, but a repeat of JFK's policies. Size of government?..Check out some of the quotes from JFK and you tell me... "I don't believe in big government"—Kennedy-Nixon Presidential Debate, 1960 "I believe in the balanced budget"—Kennedy-Nixon Presidential Debate, 1960 Would you ever hear those words come out of the mouth of Obama? Pelosi? Biden? Wasserman-Schultz? NASA?...Obama cut NASA JFK made it a priority. Foreign policy?...Any 'preemptive strikes' or other such, such as Libya? Afghanistan?..BTW Obama promised to be out of Afghanistan BY 2014...don't know if you noticed, but we're still there...(must be that opium trade, huh?) Cuba??..No invasion support for the Mafia and oil corps/intelligence community for that one..but a blockade to keep the missiles from being delivered...which ended with us having to remove our missiles from Turkey as part of the negotiated settlement. The 'Bay of Pigs' invasion was correctly NOT supported by JFK..and as a result, he wanted such operations UNDER the military and Commander in Chief, instead of 'private groups'...causing him to commission the SEALS for such covert ops..putting them UNDER the military...(more on that, if you'd like)... Syria??..Well JFK gained the respect from the world for standing up to the Soviets..Obama was a puss with his 'Red line' rhetoric, and Putin had to come in and he gained respect. Allies??..The trusted us then...they don't now....in fact they are leery of us. Monetary policies?..He wanted to abolish the Fed. Obama is married to them. .....and more, but those are pretty major ones that if he were doing those today, you'd label him a 'Conservative'. Unions?..He was NOT anti-union, BUT, he was anti corruption in the unions....(some people can't tell the difference). Did I think JFK was a GREAT president?..Not all the way, he was considered weak in the first two years, but he did step up to the plate....and, though I didn't/don't agree with his morals, at least he had better taste in his women! On that one, you and I should agree! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 16 Dec 13 - 03:21 PM There are dozens of web sites outlining the parallels between Kennedy and Obama. Anyone who has been at least half-conscious of American political history knows these similarities and parallels. Why should I be responsible for YOUR education? You want to fill in the blanks in your (lack of) education, YOU look them up and read them. They're out there for anyone to check. Or bloody-well remain ignorant. It's up to you. Don Firth P. S. If I say, "The earth is round and water is wet," things that everyone with a brain knows, why should I waste my time arguing with you about it? Sooner go have a barking fest with my neighbor's nasty little Yorkshire terrier. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Dec 13 - 01:25 PM There are??? You look it up...I'm not responsible for your spins. Name one. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 16 Dec 13 - 01:08 PM Plenty of similarities in their policies. But I am not responsible for YOUR education. Look it up yourself. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Dec 13 - 11:05 AM OK....just wanted to make sure you nailed it down. So now that we've arrived at that, can you show any similarities in their policies that would reflect that Obama and Kennedy had in common? That should be easy....you'd think....if they both reflected the same outlook on that position. What were they? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 16 Dec 13 - 01:46 AM John F. Kennedy was a Liberal. HE said he was a Liberal. Can you comprehend this? Or is this too complicated for you? I posted this on 14 Dec 13 - 06:40 PM, above. READ it!! Here. I'll post it AGAIN. "If by a 'Liberal' you mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people—their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights and their civil liberties—someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies, if that is what you mean by a 'Liberal', then I'm proud to say I'm a 'Liberal.'"And I agree wholeheartedly with Kennedy. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 16 Dec 13 - 01:09 AM Well, if I were a Buddhist, and someone wanted my opinion on something perceived as 'spiritual'....umm..I'd probably say, "Have you heard of Buddha?" OK..Diversion over.... In you post you gave yourself wiggle room to spin either way, whether you thought JFK was a liberal, or not...call it...was he?..or wasn't he?? OK..Your turn.....and stop evading....Tell us what the end 'goal' of liberalism is..and/or how Obama's policies, that you defend as liberal, are steps in that direction. Simple...you even brought it up. Tell us what you meant. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 15 Dec 13 - 11:02 PM I did NOT say that Locke was my hero. I made it specific that Locke was on the right track, but he was early and the ideas had a long way to go You would LIE when the truth would fit better. Or is it that you have a reading disability? If so, sorry about that, but it would explain your difficulties in understanding plain English. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Dec 13 - 10:34 PM Don't worry, you are not the guy I'd ask to "Besides, I could give you the answer to all the Secrets of the Universe and you'd STILL claim that I'm evading a response." First of all, who could trust your answers or explanations?!?! ..and John Locke had a few good ideas..but considering slaves as property wasn't one of them....even Karl Marx clocked him for being a hypocrite for that! (Maybe that's why you like him so much). Funny, that Bobert probably didn't know that about your idol, being as Locke was also a huge investor in the 'Royal African Company' The MAJOR slave traders. He also was a participant in drafting the 'Fundamental Constitutions of Carolina' (Bobert country)which established a feudal aristocracy and gave a master absolute power over his slaves...AND was quoted in the Constitution(well almost)..his phrase 'life liberty and the pursuit of property', was changed to 'life liberty and the pursuit of happiness'....because in Locke's version 'property meant slaves!! Enough about Locke, your hero....In you post you gave yourself wiggle room to spin either way, whether you thought JFK was a liberal, or not...call it...was he?..or wasn't he?? OK..Your turn.....and stop evading....Tell us what the end 'goal' of liberalism is..and/or how Obama's policies, that you defend as liberal, are steps in that direction. (Maybe he read Locke, and thought of turning the whole country into slaves was a great idea!) Waiting...stop evading! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 15 Dec 13 - 05:33 PM Kennedy identified himself as a Liberal. Learn to read! Not everything, but then one must judge for oneself. And NO, I'm not going to give you an analysis of John Locke. He was early on, and there were a number of things that needed thinking out yet. And no, I'm not evading a response. I want YOU to do some of the work yourself--for your OWN enlightenment and edification. Besides, I could give you the answer to all the Secrets of the Universe and you'd STILL claim that I'm evading a response. You're not really interested. You want to just keep ragging me, and I won't play that game. Get back to playing in the traffic. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Dec 13 - 04:48 PM Besides the evidence showing that you are still evading a response,let me re-phrase a part of my last post...and also give you an opportunity to clarify your position...OK? Re-phrase: "So far, you say that Kennedy was a liberal...and you identify with that(?)." Do you agree with the whole of John Locke? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Dec 13 - 02:41 PM Don, you are evading the question. What is YOUR vision of liberalism completing it's goal??? ..and you can stop talking down your nose at me...if I was so fucking stupid, a simple answer from you should be able to 'blow me out of the water'. So far, you say that Kennedy was a liberal...and you identify this that(?). GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 15 Dec 13 - 01:33 PM Oh, I have plenty to say, and obviously I know one helluva lot more than you do. I have things to do in the 3D world, Goofball, and I'm not going to waste my time in a futile attempt to educate you in matters of facts and principles that you would have learned in high school if you hadn't spent all your time doping off. So educated yourself!! I'll start you out with a guide: Read the works of John Locke, considered the father of modern Liberalism, and John Stuart Mill, particularly Mill's On Liberty. Then, read Barack Obama's The Audacity of Hope to see how his ideas and political concepts square with the principles of Liberalism. You should be able to get these books at your nearest public library. It would take me far too long to list the various Liberal measures that President Obama has tried to implement, but he has had to fight an obstructionist Congress, hell-bent on seeing to it that his administration fails. And in addition, he's had to deal with the horrendous mess that the previous administration left him, including the totally unnecessary war of attrition that George W. Bush got us into in Afghanistan. And, of course, the hate-filled Songwrongers of this country who want him to fail for reasons of their own, which have nothing to do with his political principles, but more to do with the amount of melanin in his skin! I was an eager kid in high school and I enjoyed history and American Civics classes, taught by Carl Lawrence at Seattle's Roosevelt High School. I even stayed over after school once a week to participate in a group discussion with other students on current events and politics, with Mr. Lawrence acting as our advisor. At the University of Washington, in addition to my major, first in English Literature and Creative Writing, and later, Music, I took elective courses in Philosophy, Ethics, and Logic. I recall reading the results of a national survey in which 4% of the respondents couldn't name the current President of the United States and over 50% could not name either of their Senators. Asked basic questions about the Constitution, they showed an abysmal ignorance of the entire document, especially the Bill of Rights! Horrifyingly enough, this survey was conducted among college students!! And things have gotten one helluva lot worse since then!! I took responsibility for my own education. So YOU—take charge of YOURS! GO READ A FEW BOOKS!! Gotta go now. Company coming in a little while. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Dec 13 - 01:09 PM Waiting....... (maybe you don't have anything to say..because you don't really know) GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 15 Dec 13 - 01:18 AM Firth: "I am pointing out that there is nothing "so-called" about following the Liberal philosophy." My use of 'so-called' refers to the phonies that hide behind a liberal philosophy...as in saying one thing that sounds cool, but not really being 'liberal'...so, with that in mind, feel free to explain how the Obama administration, and it's devotees, are following the 'liberal philosophy'...as long as we're going to keep it 'on topic'. Furthermore, explain how Obama and crew are being consistent with your version of 'The Liberal Philosophy'....care to give it a shot? ...and while you're doing it, leave out the 'spin', nor justifying deceit or disinformation...after all, honorable things and ideas usually don't need those things. Give 'er a whirl.... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 14 Dec 13 - 11:15 PM YOU are the one who is off-topic, Goofball. YOU insist or referring to "so-called liberals." I am pointing out that there is nothing "so-called" about following the Liberal philosophy. But I don't expect YOU to be able to comprehend that. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Dec 13 - 10:37 PM typo correction. delete the other one When are you ever going to stop turning every post that your misrepresented rap is up against the wall and start talking about yourself, and stick to something even near the topic? We know what a liberal is. We know what tyrants are. We know what dictators are. We know what corruption is. We also know what concerns parents have in raising their children. Maybe if you would have raised yours, you could have gotten this shit out of your system, and stop acting so condescending to those who DID take care of 'first things first'....after all, why should anyone pay any attention to a self absorbed fanatic, who wasn't concerned with dealing with the nuclear fabric of any society??? Don't confuse the love of and from a family, with the notoriety of 'being somebody'! ......especially when you've been asked to provide your vision of what how you see your perfect political world.....and can't seem to cough it up. You either got it...or you don't....and all we get is lofty rhetoric that points back to your overly inflated opinion of yourself. Comprende?? Sincerely, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 14 Dec 13 - 10:33 PM When are you ever going to stop turning every post that your misrepresented rap is up against the wall and start talking about yourself, and stick to something even near the topic? We know what a liberal is. We know what tyrants are. We know what dictators are. We know what corruption is. We also know what concerns parents have in raising their children. Maybe if you would have raised yours, you could have gotten this shit out of your system, and stop act so condescending to those who DID take care of 'first things first'....after all, why should anyone pay any attention to a self absorbed fanatic, who wasn't concerned with dealing with the nuclear fabric of any society??? Don't confuse the love of and from a family, with the notoriety of 'being somebody'! ......especially when you've been asked to provide your vision of what how you see your perfect political world.....and can't seem to cough it up. You either got it...or you don't....and all we get is lofty rhetoric that points back to your overly inflated opinion of yourself. Comprende?? Sincerely, GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Popular Views: the Obama Administration From: Don Firth Date: 14 Dec 13 - 10:18 PM I posted them twice, but I still have serious doubts that Goofballupagus will get it. Don Firth |
