BS: Dyslexia

Subject: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,Deep Thought
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 05:27 AM

Surely someone with dyslexia would be offended by all the threads containing deliberate mis-spellings? It is either insensitive or sycophantic, either the poster finds spelling mistakes funny, or he is jealous of John from Hull's popularity.

42

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Splott Man
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:05 AM

At the risk of compounding...

How would they know?

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: beardedbruce
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:09 AM

43,

Why should dyslexics be treated any different than anyone else? As a conservative, I am offended by the personal insults given here all the time- so what?

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,Mingulay
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 07:21 AM

I know a number of people with dyslexia who would not take offence at all. In fact most of them would probably laugh along with it. At least they could read it first off.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GLoux
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 07:30 AM

Dyslexics of the world, untie...

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Tinker
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:03 AM

I'm not dyslexic, but I do have a processing problem that makes spelling a less than exact science. It amuses me, and I know that the mispellings cause more discomfort for those who immediately know a mispelled word than they ever will for me. My brain really does consider spelling an exercise in options.

tinker

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:49 AM

How do you know they are deliberate misspellings? There are plenty of people who cannot spell or who never learned touch typing properly. Maybe they just don't have the patience to correct all their errors.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:54 AM

Hey, wait jus' a gol danged minute here!!!

Spellin' ain't half as important as content. Might of fact nondyslexic brain processes information very similar to those of us you have lexdexia.

See, when "nons" read a word they don't read every letter. as long as the first and last letters are in the right place and most of the other letters are between 'um it really don't matter much. The average "non" will get it and not give it another thought, unless the avrerage non is a spellin' taecher 'er one of them folks who jus' likes to be over critical...

But now for the lexdexics. What "nons" do in readin' a word, lexdexics do to an' entire groups of words... You know like paragraphs. We tend to mix 'um up. Sometimes we'll pull down a word from a line or two above or under the line we're trying to read and read it into what we are reading. Lots of times we'll just rearrange them in the line we're readin'... So instead of "The cow jumped over the moon" it becomes "The moon jumped cow"... Now if the line above
what we're readin' is "Blue is the color of my true love's eyes" then we might process something like "The blue moon jumped cow"...

As an adult lexdexic and looking back when I was trying to learn to read it was very frustratin' because what was being presented to me in the printed form did not square with my knowledge of language. There ain't no pills fir it either. One jus' developes little tricks, like using pointer to keep the words being processed in order... I use the pudder arrow when readin' and that works purdy good but I'll jus' confess to passing by posts that are long drawn out cut and paste threads unldess the first paragraph really grabs me because they wear me out...

But, hey, I know folks will joke about us lexdexics but most of us don't care because if we hadn't figured out how to read we wouldn't be here to read 'um... As fir spellin'... life's too short!

Lexdexic and proud of it...

Okay, maybe not proud... but not ashanmed either...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Moses
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:18 AM

Someone sent me this yesterday

Read it fast.

I cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid. Aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn't mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit a porbelm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Amzanig huh? yaeh and I awlyas thought slpeling was ipmorantt

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:33 AM

Send it back they've spelt it wrongly ;~)
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 12:38 PM

That illustrates my point, Moses. If the first and last letters are correct, you can mix and match the innards just so long as the innards are for the most part the correct innards though in incorrect sequence.

Now for "nons". If you look at the above paragraph that Moses has shared and start rearrangin' the words and leavin' out about 25% of 'um you'll have some idea about what lexdexics face without using a pointer and readin' slow compared to "nons"...

Now, here's just another thing that I found as a lexdexic. I can skim an article real well and get a good amount of content from just a quick skim... I've had others who have been blessed/cursed with this condition tell me the same thing... Go figure?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 01:29 PM

Most interesting!

I have read the good readers scan a small group of words, then pause, gazing at a blank space while they interpret what they scanned. Confirmation that we do not read whole words, one at a time.

Another thing I've learned is that the space around print matters as much to us as the printed material itself. That is why we are irritated by print which is too open or (worse)too squashed.

Once I learned that, I realized why I have such a hard time deciphering chords in written music. The note heads are squashed above and below, and they don't have defining white space around them.

A further point - don't use sans serif print if you are writing more than a few words. Sans serif print is "draft print" which lacks the little blocks on the tops and bottoms of the letters. The little blocks help us steer our eyes when reading.

Bobert - I don't read long posts either. I don't think it's dyslexia, I think it's self-defense.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 01:42 PM

Sorry to become pedantic, but letter & shape recognition are only two of the skills used in decoding text. Far more important in these examples are the use of context and prediction.
Underbirths are og! (Les Barker - Irrational newtscene)

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Raedwulf
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:53 PM

Moses - the problem is that, yes, I read that perfectly (ignoring the fact that I've seen it before), but I would have read it much faster had it been spelt correctly, because my brain wouldn't have wasted split seconds sorting out the letter groupings.

When John is disliked, it is not because he's dyslexic (he's not), it's because he A) floods the board with such complete fucking rubbish; & B) because those of us that have hung around here long enough know that he can spell perfectly well *when he can be bothered*. Wading through one of his ha-ha-ain't-I-amusing-look-I-can't-spell-even-though-I-can posts is profoundly fucking annoying. Which is why, for some time since, I completely ignore anything that the waste-of-space posts.

P.S. In case anyone thinks I'm being unfair to John, I'm sure I have seen somewhere (sadly, I forget exactly where) an admission that he deliberately mis-spells to annoy people.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: skipy
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 05:31 PM

I am "b" & "d" dyslexic, if I am writing, not so bad on a keyboard, I have to think "bog / dog" to decide which direction the letter goes.
To do this I imagine a picture of a dog / shit 'ouse.
It works for me, if there is "spelling mistake" above - IT IS A TYPO!

Skipy

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Mudlark
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 05:59 PM

I am dyslexic, transpose many letters, can't tell left from right, (tho I do OK with up from down!), am hopeless with direction, and find reading tablature, music, etc. impossible. None of this precludes a sense of humor, however. And altho I seldom read jOhn's posts his thread names usually make me smile.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Helen
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 08:24 PM

I am dyslexic and as Bobert said, I have also worked out some tricks to help steer my brain in the right direction.

The first was to wear a ring on my left hand so that I could tell left from right quickly, and then my wristwatch took over that function.

A neat trick for remembering b's & d's is to write the word "bed" and see the word as a picture of a bed - bedhead, mattress, foot of the bed. Then it's easy to remember which way the letters face.

The best thing I have done is to go and get diagnosed for Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome for which I was prescribed Irlen lenses, which are mildly coloured lenses in my glasses, and for some reason that helps to stop the print from jiggling about on the page. For me the print has a little shadow-halo around each character and this is made a lot, lot worse by high contrast black on white letters. With high contrast it is a lot harder to stop my brain from picking up words from the print lines above and below the one I am reading, as Bobert also described.

For my computer I have adjusted the Appearance on the Control Panel (PC, Windows) so that the background colour of documents is a neutral beige shade so that the black print doesn't contrast so much and hurt my eyes.

I usually know if I have typed something incorrectly and go back and fix it because I have spent the majority of my life writing, reading, typing etc so it is automatic for me to proof read as I go.

I find it a very conscious experience using a typewriter or keyboard because I learned to touch type about 30 years ago but I still hit the wrong keys by hitting the key with the corresponding finger on the other hand, e.g. instead of an "s" (left hand, ring finger) I would hit an "l" (right hand, ring finger).

Other than that, yes, I do have a sense of humour about spelling, more so than a lot of the pedants, some of whom can appear to have little sense of humour about spelling sometimes. Spelling, as Tinker said, is a little flexible. I tend to make little jokes about it, which sometimes only amuse me, e.g. referring to my former profession as a "lie-bare'-i-an", rather than "librarian" or the "lie-berry" instead of the "library". It tickles my funny bone when pedants pull a cats-bum-mouth face and correct my pronunciation. ;-> Sorry!

And, as always, it is the spirit in which the joke is made which makes all the difference.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: InOBU
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:01 PM

I have a learning challenge similar to dislexia, I have problems sequencing, and therefore can't spell... still got into law school, for those who don't know me... LDs shouldn't hold ya back. I don't mind jokes about it, I DO get a wee bit sick of fellow catters (I supposed new ones who don't know me...) using my spelling to counter points I make in discussions, more than my spelling, my graduating a top 3 law school in the US says more than my ability to spell, but I am off the point, no, I think it is cute.
Cheers
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:08 PM

Guest- thanks fpr your concern [it is apreshiated]
howwver, nowadays i don't give a flying fuck waht anyone says about me [as long as they use their regiular mudcat name].

a while ago, i got offendeed at people cometning [i think ive spelt co#menting wrong, but i dont care!]
about my spelling mistakes, [wehen i first joined here in 2000, thereb was Murray Mclreod and Skipjack K8 , that felt it nessersary to comment on my bad spelling, at that time i felt outcast, and posted to the main forum., [and PM'f them both], ie "sorry if my bad spelling anoys you, i'm dislexic, if you prefer, i'll stop posting here, and just read the threads"

there reply was="don't be daft john, we like you, and want you to stay here"

At the time I thought Skipjack8 was a complete wanker, and more interested in spelling than music=

I have since met him, and nothing could be further form the truth, he is an all round good guy, and an exelent musician, [fiddle, accordian etc], in fact, i've forgotten all about him taking the piss out of my spelinng, and ive booked him and his band for a gig in hull!

I don't give a shit waht anyone says about me, if they are good musicans, i'll do waht i can to get them a gig.

There was a thread a while back, [some arguing shit],
skipjack posted, saying=
"dont forget why we are here"
he means = we are here fore the music, ie see wahts happeningf in your area, se waht festivals etc etc"
any extra stuff, is not important, its just cit chat and bullsit,
ok some of it is important, [worlfd issues etc], or funny.
but the main thinhg here is music.

and-
a while ago, i posted that i'm starting a folk club in Hull, =
Murray Mcleod posted to it, saying=
"good luck wihth it john, i will go, next time i'me in hull"

to all people=
this whole thing is about music, if you spell bad= it doesent matter,
make a folk club, or start a session or wahtever, but wahtever you do, make sure you keep live musc going.


john

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:10 PM

Danged, Helen... That was one of my old tricks with the ring... Back when I was in military school I was the guideon (Company flag) bearer, which meant I didn't have to carry an M-1 rifle. Good you'd think. But I did have to walk in front of the comapany and during ceremonies would have to do some purdy intricate things with the guideon bearers of the other two companies. I would us a rubber band on my left ring finger and make it tight enough so that I knew it was there.... The reason, which you will understand, for the left hand is that left is considered the "wrong way" so I purposely used the rubber band to create enough pain in the finger that I always associated pain and left...

Now a days left is nothin' more than my "other right"...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Bert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:33 PM

Hmmm, some interesting discussions.

I don't worry too much about spelling. I can quickly read Moses' paragraph above and understand it and see every mistake. When I was in my teens spelling was a bit of a problem so I decided to do something about it. It turned out that there were about twenty words that were giving me a problem. I learned them and haven't worried about spelling since.

The problem here at Mudcat, is that we have one or two delightful dyslexic mudcatters who are put off from posting because of the insensitive assholes who make fun of them.

I also have a dear friend who is dyslexic and the ring trick doesn't help because when she looks at a 'b' she SOMETIMES SEES IT as a 'd'.
If it was consistent she would be able to compensate but the letters keep changing.   The teachers at her school were useless and called her stupid. She had to teach herself to read as an adult.

So if you are dyslexic or have any kind of problem with spelling or grammer, don't worry, we don't care, we love you anyway and want to hear from you.

So keep posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:34 PM

Raedwulf-you can fuck off and kiss ,my big fat hairy arse.

your obviousyly as thick as pig shit,
note i don't give a flying fuck waht you [or anyone else] thinks of my spelling.

tell me=wehn have i ever said that that i miss spell on perpos?
your making it up, and your full of shit, and trying to make trubble.


note=wehn i possted to this thread, i had not read weird wolfs post, i was replying to the first message on this thread.


Readwolf- pm me your addres, and i'll send you my school records.


do you think that somene would pretend to be bad at spelling for 4 years?
if so, why?

[click on my name in any thread, after one of my first posts-
someone said "you spelled that wrong",
my reply was, ="so waht, i thought this was a music site, not a spelling site?

anyway=fuck off.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:44 PM

Weird wolf-I just read your post again, and you really are full of shit!

How the fuck would you know wether i am dislexic or not?
you a quailified dislexia examiner then?
[i dont think so some how!

Yesterday was the first time ever that i have mentiomed my dislexia on this website, a day later you tell me and the rest of the members here, thst i am not dislexic, thank you for your diagnosis!


just a thought, perhaps you can tell me if i am partially deaf, shortsighted, and suffer from arthritis?

thats if you are in any way medically qwalified?
if so, you must be a good doctor, to be able to diagnose someone without even seeing them!

if your not medicaly qwalified, i sugest you shut the fuck up.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:44 PM

Hear, hear, jOhn... Well stated an' a tribute to lexdexics everywhere... Or jus bad spellers.... Like you said, its a music site, fir gosh sakes...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Bert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:46 PM

Yer right Bobert, I might disagree with you about rats and squirrels but it's a MUSIC (and BS) site.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:04 PM

raedwolf-your a fucking jerk, and waht has my speeing got to do with you anyway?

anyway-i know someone that has met you, [at yorkshire gathering last year],
he said your a right fucking weirdo, and you look like a pufter.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:06 PM

ps, allegidly you were puff clothes and you got a puffs beard.

so i suggest you shut the fuck up, weirdo [alegidly]

and i bet you don't know shit about folk music, [or dislexia].

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Bert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:07 PM

Er Sir jOhn, that should be "poofter". *GRIN*

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:11 PM

poofter [weird wolf],

anyway =Richard Branston is dislexic, so if you think dislexic people are thick, then fuck off.

he is one of richest men in the world, and he got loads of big companys,=
virgin music, virgin phones, virgin cosmetcs, virgin planes, virgin trains, etc etc etc.

waht weird wolf got?
fuck all, thats waht!

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Bert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:14 PM

Uh Oh! Sir jOhn, I DIDN'T say that! ('cos it ain;t true). Read my posting of 10:33pm.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:24 PM

Heloo Bert,
I came here to learn about folk music,
wehn i first came here some people moaned about my spelling ["you spelled that word wrong etc".

i was going to leeve, but i stayed,
now weird wolf is moaning, he can kiss my arse,

i won't take no shit from weirdo like him.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:24 PM

But does he have any virgin virgins, jOhn??? Hmmmmmm??? Din't think so... Lotta that going 'round... Bout the only way to find a virgin is tyo go to the Middle East and blow yerseff up and get 38 of 'um... 'er 45. I donno how many but lots....

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:36 PM

I was not bothered about people making funny threads about spelling etc, [and i'm still not],
[people can take the piss out of me if they like, [dislexia, deaf, wear glasees, high blood pressure, bad heart, or any of bloody thing the fucking think of],


but radewolf piss me off, becase he doesent know waht hes talking about, and just talking shit.


and anyway=is true i heard people saying he looks like a poof, he weres poff clothes, got a poffs beard, and talks like a poof.

[so he'ed better just fucking shut up then [pufter[.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:44 PM

"whicjh is why for some time, i ignore anything the waste of space posts".

how dare you call me a waste of space?

and wehn addressing me, kindly call me Sir, you ignorant sack of shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Bert
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 11:57 PM

Hi Sir jOhn, you came here to learn about folk music.

Well me too.

And any time you post about folk music I'll listen. And I don't give a monkey's about your spelling or grammar. (I'll also listen to a certain amount of BS too, 'specially from you)

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Helen
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 12:34 AM

Bert,

The changeovers from left to right perception happen with me too, but if I use the wristwatch = left trick, and write a straight line first and then add a circle to the bottom of the line, furthest away from the left (i.e wristwatch, and then the e and then the d then it works well.

My crossovers often happen with up/downs as well as left/rights so my major problem is 2 & 5. If you make a mirror image of the 5 by holding the mirror along the straight line at the top, it almost looks like a 2. It's still the one that gets me most of the time so if I'm reading out a list of figures or entering data with lots of figures I have to double check them. I know as soon as I have said it or typed it that it is wrong but unconsciously I will almost always do it wrong.

I remember getting very frustrated by a teacher in 3rd class who belittled me in front of the whole class because I was having trouble with 2's & 5's, z's & s's, etc and I asked her "how do you know which way is left?" Her reply, ever helpful, was "left is just left!" In all other ways she was a nice teacher and a good teacher, but that answer made me sit there and keep my questions to myself. And no matter how hard I tried her comments about my work were 1) I wasn't trying hard enough and 2) my writing was really messy.

That was in 1963 so she probably knows about dyslexia now, but not then. I only heard about it 20 or so years later, and I didn't get the Irlen lenses until a few years ago. Meanwhile I had been struggling to get through a lot of years of study, including my MBA. So I echo Larry's sentiment, in saying that being dyslexic doesn't mean that I am incapable of learning or studying.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 12:42 AM

Anyway- Deep Thought-I reckon your exactly right, [but b#don't call me surely].

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:14 AM

Heloo,
i just got a PM calling me "sharp and abrupt", not really sure waht shes on about,
but i tell it like it is.

and saying [forgot exacy;y waht but like=],
maybe best not to say that etc=
bollocks, i'll say it how it is, and i wont post as guest, or use different name=
if i got something to say= i'll say it.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Cluin
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:27 AM

You're dyslexic, jOhn? I just thought you were pissed most of the time when you posted here.

My sister is dyslexic. She worked hard against it to the point where she now enjoys reading very much. I am proud of her.

Anyway, here you go.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:39 AM

Raedwolf-in this thread about homosexuals you spelled offence wrong
Click.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:48 AM

my link doesent seem to work, however , the thread is called "Homophobia in british folk music"
its were you are talking about your queer freinds.

if your going to comment on other peoples spelling, i suggest you leatn to spell yourself, otherwise you just end up looking like a prick.

no offence.

john

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 02:01 AM

PS=
weird wolf- don't bother coming to Hull, we'll all tie you up then piss on you.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 02:02 AM

then, throw you in the river.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 02:39 AM

AS a soul BLESSED (discussed in other threads) with dyslexia - I appreciate the postings of others. It is as-if we are a localized community, we know what we have.... and have learned to embrace the view.... that seeing the world differently.... airn't such a bad thing.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 02:45 AM

I agree.
best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Gurney
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 04:54 AM

Well, Deep Thought, I guess that if you've read down this far, you've learned that jOhn doesn't need anyone to look after him.

I've taken the piss mildly when one of his 'individual' spellings has put me in mind of a double enterdre, but he never came back at me. Hope he never does. Like him, I'm here for amusement, entertainment, enlightenment, and the fellowship of people who like the sort of music that I do.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 05:01 AM

I personally, I'm sick of "guests" coming in here and posting messages they don't seem to know anything about. They read a few posts and they think there's a bunch of old Folkies in here, and they decide to start shit with them. They should be ignored at the very least OR should not be able to post unless they actually give a name, so they can't hide, like the slugs that they really are...

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 05:18 AM

I hate to intrude on all this fun, but I feel bound to mention that dyslexia does not mean reversing letters, or not being able to spell. Dyslexia is a specific reading disability. People with dyslexia by definition have scores on a reading achievement test that is 15 points or more below their IQ score. (A reading achievement test measures, among other things: letter-word identification, reading fluency, passage comprehension, word attack, spelling, vocabulary, phonology, and rapid naming.)

Dyslexia represents a problem with how the brain processes language, not with vision or motor skills. It is most likely an inherited condition, which is associated with specific differences in the structure and function of the brain. Most commonly affected is the ability to separate words into "phonemes," their basic building blocks.    The sine qua non of dyslexia is difficulty with reading aloud. Children who later turn out to have dyslexia commonly have delayed onset of talking (first words after 15 months), prolonged "baby talk," persistent mispronunciations after 5 or 6 years, and difficulty repeating rhymes.

Many people with dyslexia do have problems with spelling as well. Letter reversals are a common developmental trait in normal children. Some people, including people with dyslexia, have persistent problems with left-right discrimination, but that is not the main problem that leads to difficulty reading.

Interestingly, many children and older people with dyslexia do not have language problems when they sing. (There, I knew I could make this a musical thread!)

Aloha,

Mark

PS If this sounds a little pedantic, it's because I'm busy studying for my Board certification exam in Developmental-Behavioral Pediatrics, which I take on Monday in San Francisco.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: GUEST,Deep Thought
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:09 AM

Well chris nightbird perhaps you should re-read the original post, it was intended to provoke a little thought from those who post without thinking of others. It certainly elicited some wonderfull responses in among the predictable shit, and I for one have learned things about reading disabilities than I never knew. I am not a passing flamer but someone who has been around as long as Sir Jo9hn, and appreciate his contributions to the Mudcat (mostly)
Sometimes peoples response to a post is conditioned by the person making it, and the Pavlovian instinct takes over, thus the response is not truthfull. That is why I chose to adopt a pseudonym.

Subject: RE: BS: Dyslexia
From: Helen
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 07:43 AM

Thanks for the definition Mark. On reading it I still see dyslexia as the same. The letter reversals are not a vision problem, they are the way the brain processes what is seen. The image is the same but my brain puts a different spin on the image and chops and changes that spin - admittedly in a fairly predictable manner, e.g. left-right reversals or up-down reversals.

I do mispronounce words, I do have terrible trouble "finding" the right names for things. I hate reading aloud, which is a terrible affliction for someone who chose to be a teacher, because what I see and what I say - because of the way my brain processes the written words - do not match up all the time. It's kind of like a strobing effect which switches between one interpretation and the other.

I hate people in the street asking me the time because I look at my watch and have to think consciously about what time it is likely to be to decide whether it is 10 past 1 or 10 to 11 - have I had lunch yet? Yes. Then it must be 10 past 1. It happens with analog watches, but it is worse with digital watches because those damn numbers look just as confusing backwards as forwards.

To me the letter reversal is one of the most obvious symptoms of the underlying dyslexia. It's easy to talk about too. A lot easier than trying to describe the brain functions and brain shifts, especially to people who have never experienced it and especially to the people who arrogantly assume that their normality is the whole of the universe.

Perhaps people think that because I spell properly and have few typos that I am not really dyslexic, but I have learnt to consciously watch every single letter I type to make sure that I put them in the right order.

If you have a higher than average level of intelligence then you have more capacity to create useful ways to compensate for the difficulties or to try to bypass them. Maybe a lot of the studies of dyslexia focus on the middle levels of intelligence, or on people who don't have the innate or learned drive to study and learn and do well at school. So then they get frustrated with learning & studying and find other, more preferable diversions.

If I type witout thinking about the correct spelling I can show you haw it works. I am concsiously not correcting my spelling although it is hare not to to it becuase I am so used to doing it.   Usually when I type I am backtracking as I go, and corecting my spelling as I realise it is wrong. I am tyring to let myseld do it and not corect it but it is not so easy to go back to how I could still be, when I have spent so mayn years leanring how to do it properly.

Helen