BS: George Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 03:40 PM

It's been a whole fucking thread of whine and bitch. About time you guys took a step up behaved like five-year-olds.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: gnu
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:05 PM

Guest... I have only read 100 posts, TOPS. I could not agree more.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Elmore
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:05 PM

Nah.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 04:48 PM

""Personel attack are fine against any minority here."".....Bearded Bruce

""What a bunch of bigoted, hypocritical, lying pieces of shit."".....Bearded Bruce in the same post!

What was that pompous comment he uses every couple of days about setting standards for others that we don't follow ourselves?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 05:46 PM

Like they say, Don, "He who smelt it dealt it"...

BB has a very bad habit of calling normal people "bigots"???

Funny??? He's the biggest bigot here in Mudcat, bar none...

That's why I ignore 100% of his posts... If I want to read bigotry I'll go to KKK.com...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 07:49 PM

The only cartoon characters around here are Beardedbruce, and that wart he has on his butt, Goofball.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jul 13 - 07:59 PM

I still find the wart amusing, Don...

The butt the wart lives on and everything else attached to that butt, not so...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:13 AM

From the interview with juror 'B29'.
Note her emotions verses the legal aspect...which I was trying to tell you all along!

"Catch Up on all the Details From the George Zimmerman Murder Trial.

Maddy, a nursing assistant and mother of eight children, was the only minority member of the all-female panel. Maddy said she favored convicting Zimmerman of second-degree murder when deliberations began.

"I was the juror that was going to give them the hung jury. I fought to the end," she said.

Her FEELINGS were eventually swayed by the second day of deliberations after she realized there wasn't enough proof to convict Zimmerman of murder or manslaughter under Florida law.

See Reaction to the George Zimmerman Verdict

"You can't put the man in jail even though in our hearts we felt he was guilty," Maddy said. "But we had to grab our hearts and put it aside and look at the evidence."

But her feelings about Zimmerman's actions are clear.

"George Zimmerman got away with murder, but you can't get away from God. And at the end of the day, he's going to have a lot of questions and answers he has to deal with," Maddy said. "[But] the law couldn't prove it."

Sound familiar????????????
Now my two cents worth, AGAIN: It was a series of misreading the moments by BOTH of them, and that led to a chain of stupid actions. Somebody was attacked, and somebody was shot and killed.
Quit fanning it into a racial hate thing. It had NOTHING to do with it!..Says the FBI, Trayvon's mother, and the eyewitness, who saw Zimmerman on the bottom and heard the gunshot.

The juror had to deal with it, but under the law she couldn't convict him, with the evidence. SHE SAID IT!
Now stop being so boneheaded about it, and making it something it wasn't!

Here's the link: Juror 'B29' interview...with other links.

So if you want to form idiotic 'alliances' and base it on something other than the law, from which the case was tried, go ahead....you can suck each others warts and butts!..then you can earn your just reward of being butt-hurt!
And if you are trying to politicize it, you're really a stupid jerk off!..So knock it off, and be rational. If the political activists, who are into the business of capitalization(as in making money) of being professional race-baiters, and making a 'living' of this, to whom you listen to, didn't rush the trial, to be relevant, and make a buck, it WOULD have gone to the Grand Jury, and he would have been charged appropriately! YOUR GUYS FUCKED IT UP ALL THE WAY AROUND! Stop paying attention to them....they're making money of you dimwits!

And that's the way it is!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 04:53 AM

On a serous note, and a caring note, Bobert, it may seem to you that there is a bunch of people on here, who are all telling you pretty much the same thing, which, just so happens to be, the same truth you see, as it unfolds. I mean, like the irrefutable truth, borne out as the events unfold, and the people who took part in them are verifying...I've been one of those people. I am NOT a Tea Party, KKK, or in any way biased against blacks..matter of fact I've played, and made a lot of music with 'them'. I say 'them' in quotes, because there was no 'them'...it was an 'US'. WE made the music together....nobody was dealing with skin color...just sound...nobody cared...(and by the way, some of it was REAL fucking HOT, but that's another story, for another time)...what I'm trying to tell you, is that there is some truth, in the 'land of the center'..which to you, may seem FAR right....but it's not....you've been programmed to interpret, those truths as FAR right...but they're not. Honestly, man....and in your interpretations, I think you're thinking that those people are 'enemies'...the 'other side'. We're not, man...we're all in this together....and it serves NO practical reason, for others who have that point of view, which many times is really in the center....shit, I'll even go as far, as to say, apolitical, much of the time. Your beating yourself up, over your viewpoint...and it's a bummer, for those of us who love ya, to see you 'losing it'.
The majority..no...the overwhelming majority, of those here in Mudcat-Land, are just not haters of any of their fellow man....maybe different opinions about stuff...but not to the point of hating anybody. So, step back...take a breath..know that you are amongst friends....and just consider..just for a clear moment...there is another side, that will NOT be politicized, and won't be manipulated, no matter how 'noble' the 'cause'...and that is an objective view, coupled with love...and being as love really is the focus, a certain objectivity, stays intact....it has to...because that same objectivity, sees when the need for compassion is needed, to know how to best love our fellow man...and that is best done, by keeping the filter clean of all the negative. It affects, among other things, your music, and every emotion you put into it.
There really isn't any time to be wasted, on that negative shit...even politics. Music unites people, being as all those same people can interpret emotions.
To quote you, "It sounded delicious!"
Now would it?...if we were thinking about all these partisan resentments..caused by artificial agitations, by political agitator/activists...from either fucking side???? Our music is aimed at the center..the center of the listeners heart........not their fucked up thoughts, in an up-tight mind....I,..I'll speak for myself, am aiming at the heart.
My suggestion....(for free, too)...is to take all those injustices you've seen, from years back, roll it into the music...and deliver it, in love, and for love
You too, may begin to wave good-bye to the divisions.....'and they will follow'......
Isn't what this is all about?

Regards, man...

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: bobad
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 06:43 AM

"Quit fanning it into a racial hate thing. It had NOTHING to do with it!"

So you honestly think that events would have played out the same had Trayvon been a white dude wearing a suit. I don't.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 09:52 AM

Lotta KKKers back in their heyday denied being racists, too... That's why they hid their faces and did their dirty work at night...

No, GfinS, you fall squarely into TeaKKK-Nation when it comes down to policies...

That's not meant to be an insult... It's just an observation...

A one million word response from you won't change that...

You spread your hate for Obama before you even knew who he was or what he stood for and now have become Zimmerman worshiper...

I rest my case...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 11:32 AM

""You can't put the man in jail even though in our hearts we felt he was guilty," Maddy said. "But we had to grab our hearts and put it aside and look at the evidence."

But her feelings about Zimmerman's actions are clear.

"George Zimmerman got away with murder, but you can't get away from God. And at the end of the day, he's going to have a lot of questions and answers he has to deal with," Maddy said. "[But] the law couldn't prove it.""

This was the only par of two posts by you that was actually pertinent to the topic.

The juror was right up to a point!!

When she said ""[But] the law couldn't prove it"", she was wrong. Whether she knew it or not, and whether it was about race or not, the law never intended to prove it.

Quite the opposite in fact.

Zimmerman is feeling smug and happy now, and when the dust has settled, he'll be on the prowl again.

It's worked in his favour twice already and he must be feeling pretty invulnerable.

I just hope that the next time he picks on a stranger, the stranger too will be armed, and willing to use a weapon.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 11:33 AM

~~~sigh~~~

Robot: "No, GfinS, you fall squarely into TeaKKK-Nation when it comes down to policies...
That's not meant to be an insult... It's just an observation...
A one million word response from you won't change that...
You spread your hate for Obama before you even knew who he was or what he stood for and now have become Zimmerman worshiper.."

Is this what you get when you cross a robot with a parrot?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 11:56 AM

Don T: "When she said ""[But] the law couldn't prove it"", she was wrong. Whether she knew it or not, and whether it was about race or not, the law never intended to prove it."

It sounds like you are agreeing with the original officers, who weren't going to charge him at all!!

The glitch that screwed it up, was the eagerness to turn this into a racial issue, pressured by Sharpton and Jackson, and the other professional promoters and exploiters.
Don, the FACT is this case should have been reviewed by the Grand Jury First!!...as NORMALLY done, in cases of this nature. Had the pressure, NOT been applied, to DO SOMETHING RIGHT NOW, the prosecution would have charged him correctly, and probably won the case.
The politics of race, is what lost this case.
Now before your head explodes, THINK about what I just said.
The prosecution's case, boiled down to pleading to the jurors to look at it EMOTIONALLY, NOT legally...and THAT is exactly why they lost the case.
They COULD have had him....but they blew it.
..and that is the legal opinion from legal scholars as well, who have called for the prosecutors to be disbarred.
What I just said to you, is without bias, one way or another. It is, in fact, THE fact!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:08 PM

Gnu, if you get the transcript and reach your judgement on the basis of the evidence and court direction contained in it, you will be alone among all the opinionated shit-stirrers who post to this thread.
Good luck, but you may have to visit the County court archives to find it.

In this thread, not one who has shouted "Foul" has any basis for their remarks- no trial evidence is presented by them, only opinions based on their preconceived notions.

Trial transcripts are public, but because of the expense of checking them for publication, usually the only copies are available at the trial court of county archives. Perhaps a qualified person will eventually write a book on the trial, evaluating the evidence, but usually such tomes are written for the purpose of attracting readers and not the presentation of facts.

Also beware of remarks by jurors given to the press after the trial. Usually the remarks are conditioned by the interviewer, and are sieved out to make an attention-catching story.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 12:51 PM

"trial court OR county archives"

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Lighter
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 01:16 PM

What's more, Q, despite someone's recent post, the prosecution had over a year to decide precisely what charges to bring.

At the very last moment - after the trial had been on for days! - they tried to add a charge of ... "felony murder resulting from child abuse"!

Under the circumstances shown at trial, no charge, real or proposed, could have trumped Z's right to self-defense. The evidence showed that M attacked Z (at least twice, if you count the broken nose and the head thumping separately, which the prosecution undoubtedly would have tried to do if M had been the defendant: after all, he could have run away); and Z in the opinion of the jurors, "acted reasonably" when he fired "in self-defense."

In other words, the jury believed that any reasonable person in that situation might be expected to do the same.

All Z knew (even if M wasn't grabbing for his gun) was that he was being attacked by a 5' 11" guy whom he *already* suspected of being a criminal (based on his actions), and that this young man (not "child") had already broken his nose and was "pounding" his head on concrete. The eyewitness used the word "pound" and the pathologist concurred that Z's injuries were consistent with that. Z had no reason to believe that the pounding would stop.

To repeat what few want to hear: the stand-your-ground law never came up in trial. It was irrelevant. Z's alternative was to risk hematoma or death in the hope that the police would show up in time to drag M away.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 05:04 PM

The mug photos of Zimmerman show no signs of a broken nose.

And I've seen about three different photos of the back of Zimmerman's head and they've all been badly Photoshopped. One of the first ones to appear depicted him as covered with blood--and obviously Photoshopped.

I also read the Zimmerman was a good 47 pounds heavier that Martin. Who attacked whom?

And once again, lest anyone forget:   Zimmerman got out of his car and approached Martin after the police told him NOT to.

Something is rotten in the State of Florida.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 05:54 PM

The mug shots are suspect, at best, Don...

Anyone who has been around martial arts knows that if Martin had been on top and been able to do the things that Zimmerman said Martin had done then Zimmerman's head would have looked like hamburger meat...

I mean, these so called injuries looked to me like Zimmerman went out and pounded his own head to break a little skin to support his made up version of the murder... I mean, the doctor who checked him out said the injuries were superficial and not in need of an stitches... Anyone who believes Zimmerman here probably is the kind of person I'd like to sell a bridge to...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 05:56 PM

Grasp any straw you can, and if you can't find one..just make one up, huh?
Here,.. Is this link 'guilty' or 'innocent', 'right' or what's 'left'?
Be careful, listening to this link could cause brain damage, to robots and parrots!

Let me know...by the way, we're still waiting for those KKK'ers, and White Supremacists to show up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 06:58 PM

Those are not "straws," Goofball, that's what, in a sane, just world, is called

EVIDENCE
Even if the court ignored it.

I know it's hard for you, but DO try to keep up.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 07:06 PM

Oh! And those KKK'ers and White Supremecists you're asking about? You're following right on their coat tails (In fact, I recognize you there under your sheet and pointy hood).

By the way, the reason the KKK wear those pointy hoods is because they fit their pointy heads.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 07:19 PM

Yeah, the modern day KKKers don't see themselves as the new Klan but they very much are...

They still support the murder of innocent black people...

Martin went to the fucking store for candy and ended up stalked and murdered by an older, larger and armed man...

Only a KKKer would defend the killer... Only KKK...

GfinS may see himself differently but those of us who grew up in the South know his type...

Ain't no robot here, GfinS, but good try...

You need to check out your values, dude, 'cause you don't have a clue just how you are seen when you write this crap...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 07:29 PM

Really, Goofball, you're in grave danger of committing suicide with the same weapon that Samson used to kill a thousand Philistines.

Think about it!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: gnu
Date: 27 Jul 13 - 08:00 PM

Q... trust you to be a voice of reason... "Gnu, if you get the transcript and reach your judgement on the basis of the evidence and court direction contained in it, you will be alone among all the opinionated shit-stirrers who post to this thread."

I am gonna leave this thread for good until I get that full transcript but I have to say something before I leave.

How dare you! How dare you interpret the meager evidence you have to make ANY judgement about either of these men? WTF is wrong with you? I am absolutely appalled by your behaviour. Any true and honest man would shun you. Shame on you. Shame!

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 12:59 AM

Yell all you want...you guys are nuts!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 05:40 AM

Dork First: "Those are not "straws," Goofball, that's what, in a sane, just world, is called
EVIDENCE
Even if the court ignored it."

They are straws, just like your whole bullshit argument based solely on your fucked up opinions...which happen to be detached from reality.
What do you need 'EVIDENCE' for??..Going to court??? It already went to court...and there wasn't enough 'EVIDENCE' that you approve of, to convict him...mostly because what you consider 'EVIDENCE' is just your wannabe political conjecture!
You really are fucked up...and you seriously should seek professional help..even though it would be a waste of time and money!

The two of you guys come off like Abbott and Costello. I'm sure you can't see it...but you sprinkle your 'seed', and knock this chick up..split..the chick goes on welfare....and Robot is a welfare worker!..Perfect!..You NEED somebody to pick up your slack!..Only thing is, it ain't washin' here, and you ain't fooling anybody, but your welfare worker!..who is already predisposed to think everyone is a KKK nutcase!!.......Good grief!!

Froth: "EVIDENCE
Even if the court ignored it."

They didn't ignore it. They ignored idiotic opinions, such as yours, and acquitted Zimmerman of grounds of self defense..not race...not getting out of his car...not profiling...self defense. He was on the ground, (eyewitness testified), getting hit...and shot the fucking punk! Tragic? Yes. Stupid? Yes. Fucked up trial? Only because it was rushed through to appease political asshole big mouths like you! Ignored 'EVIDENCE'?? That's why they NORMALLY convene a Grand Jury FIRST!
So stuff one thumb in your mouth and the other in your ass..maybe it will keep the odor of your opinions where they should be.

We're done...You and Robot, are too blocked, and fucked up, to digest reality!..and so you make up your own....but lack common sense....Wait a minute...where did I just read that?...Oh yeah...

Proverbs 6:8 "A young man devoid of understanding,
8 Passing along the street near her corner;
And he took the path to her house
9 In the twilight, in the evening,
In the black and dark night."

Proverbs 6:14 "with perverted heart devises evil, continually sowing discord;"

,,and here, pick a translation..English Standard Version (© 2001)
He who commits adultery lacks sense; he who does it destroys himself.

King James Bible
But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding: he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.

American Standard Version
He that commits adultery with a woman is void of understanding: and lacks common sense. He who does it who would destroy his own soul."

In other words, you've been nuts and fucked up for a LONG time. That's why you NEED a lackey...to validate yourself to your self.

In reality, you are not taken, or to be taken seriously.

Good Night, Gracie!

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 12:16 PM

"Only KKK"

You have no respect for the jury system. You have no respect for North Carolinians. You condemn anyone who does not share your hate of the South and Southerners.

Why should anyone listen to you?

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 12:28 PM

Self hatred??? He lives in the South.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 12:49 PM

Goofball, "Judge not, lest YE be judged!"

And remember:   You are judged for the judgments YOU make.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 01:20 PM

Goofball, your above post is a real outpouring of ignorance and hatred. You tell ME to seek professional help when YOU are spitting vitriol like that?

Despite your tenuous command of the English language, that's one of the most eloquent of your posts so far. But it tells us more about YOU than what you apparently think you're talking about.

YOU ARE REALLY ONE SICK PUPPY!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 01:50 PM

Are you capable having a discussion, that doesn't rely on your inane name-calling??
Though you 'claim' to have a command of the language, how come you say virtually nothing? You fuck up facts, you refuse them when they are presented, you insist on defending your stance on decadence, you interject your thoughts, as to what people post..then, argue with the words you interjected, that was NEVER said by the poster, to whom you attribute it to.
Somehow, you think Zimmerman getting out of his car, is a crime, even if the cops ADVISED him not to..and then disregard that Martin assaulted him, had him on the ground beating him, when the shot was fired. You insist that it was all racial, when the FBI, his mother, witnesses, the jury, all are saying otherwise...but to LOOK like a 'concerned'(?) wannabe activist, you insist that it was all racial...and REFUSE to consider that the jury only acquitted Zimmerman, because they didn't get to hear your stupid, fucking, ignorant opinions!!!
Not only that, your 'teaming up' with Robot, has completely minimized any 'opinions' he has, and made him sound like a complete moron!
Both of you, are LITERALLY beyond belief!! You've turned your political, nonsensical rantings, and believe them as actual facts!..(but then you're known for that--see above). You'd lynch Zimmerman for getting out of his car, and forget the rest of what happened!!?!!
Frankly, your and Robot's rants have just about bored people to tears, so much, that if they never heard the names Martin and Zimmerman again, for the rest of their lives, it wouldn't be too soon!
Here, you and the Robot, sniffle because Trayvon was an innocent kid, just on his way back from the store with Skittles and innocently got shot....and turned it into a interracial crusade, because this poor little sweet black kid was shot by a 'white/Hispanic' bigot, RIGHT??? It didn't matter that self defensed is how the jury called it, and the state couldn't proof otherwise...YOU GUYS want to champion the poor little kid from being killed because of race????? COOL ....CHAMPION THIS...YOU HYPOCRITES!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 01:51 PM

I looked into it gnu and the kind of document you are looking for must be obtained from the court. You cannot find it online. The video is available all over the web.

Btw, GfS, I listened to your piece on the tavern thread. Very nice bit of keyboard wizardry. Now, shut the hell up :-)

This is not rocket science here. In any violent encounter, there is a primary aggressor. Stalking and confronting is aggression. There's no question that George Zimmerman was the primary aggressor. In order to acquit George Zimmerman, you'd have to believe that Trayvon Martin attacked him. You would only be willing to accept something like that as a given means that you harbor deep seated notions about the criminality of young black men. Otherwise you would realize that the absence of Zimmerman DNA logically indicates that Zimmerman injuries were the direct result of him trying to subdue someone who was fighting being subdued. A good head butting would have caused a bump on the nose. It was no aggressive punch. If you are trying to take down somebody who is fighting it and you are not up to the task, you're going to get hurt. Period. And then of course, because you fancy yourself a cop, you shoot. And I'm not convinced that the gun wasn't already out prior to the final moments. He was Joe cop. You gotta remember that.

Everything that sociopathic son of a bitch said is a lie. He is a liar. I don't know how that business of lying to the court about the donation money escaped everybody. I would never lie to a court, would you? It speaks to his character. Anybody who would lie to a court over money, is certainly going to lie to save his life! Get a grip all of you who say it was a worthy verdict. I think the first juror, the wife of the lawyer who answered all the questions correctly (but dishonestly) because she wanted on that jury dazzled the rest of them with her legalese and led them in that direction. You can any small group like that together and the most dominant personality surfaces. She was solidly in Zimmerman's corner from the start. If the second juror really felt that way, then she should have held the jury up instead of allowing the other members to bully her into the wrong verdict. I would have sat there until hell froze over and and shook my head and said, "Uh-uh, manslaughter." I do think it was murder with a depraved mind, however, the evidence supports manslaughter.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 03:23 PM

Guest,SJL has the right of it.

Goofball, everybody who reads your stuff knows that you are a hopeless moron. Why don't you stop embarrassing yourself and just go away!??

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 03:30 PM

Sorry, Q, Bobert doesn't hate the South or Southerners.(nor do I, for that matter) Bobert IS a Southerner, born and bred. What he hates is the persistent racism in this country and the legacy, still very much with us, of Slavery and Jim Crow.

More to the point, why should anyone listen to YOU denying these issues exist and brushing them aside as "hate for the South and Southerners"???

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 03:39 PM

SJL, I do not think Zimmerman is blameless in all this. What I've been trying to point out, repeatedly, is that because there was a rush to turn this into a racially charged motivated issue, so much, that they screwed up the legal process, circumvented the Grand Jury, instead of doing it correctly...THEN they want to bitch, and blame everybody for being racists, when in reality that was NOT the issue at all. THEY were the ones, in their eagerness to turn it into one, that sabotaged the whole thing! I've said, previously, that Zimmerman could, and should have been charged and tried appropriately, but it was the race baiting, for profit, bigots that derailed it all. Now they are trying to shift the focus, when in fact it was them who caused it to happen, Fair enough?

BTW, glad you liked the piece. Every note was played 'live' with no pre-programming of sequencers or parts. ...and just a little over 86,000 notes!

Ok..you get to shut up, now....(wink)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 04:11 PM

I do not deny that the racist issues exist.

But the blanket application of the KKK brush and denial that justice for Blacks in the South is possible, is stupid and sickening.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 04:39 PM

No-one is saying that justice for Blacks in the South isn't POSSIBLE, Q - It is. But its certainly, shall we say, a great deal less than universal.

And as for the Klan and the Klan mentality - absent the robes and rigmarol e- it is very much alive and well, if in fewer numbers than heretofore.

That someone would deny both of these facts is ALSO stupid and sickening.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 04:44 PM

Your posts over a long period of time are the evidence of your reverse bigotry.

I will say no more.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 04:50 PM

Greg, yes, you are correct...the numbers thank God, are really down. What I strongly object to, is wannabe activists, are accusing people on here, in Mudcat-land, of being KKK, so on and so forth, and then proceed to trash them out, based on their completely erroneous accusations...and when that happens, you bet I'll get in their faces about it!
Frankly, the Zimmerman/Martin case has taken on the role of beating a dead horse.

BTW, nice to see a post from you that goes beyond your 'normal fare'.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 04:56 PM

There are some solidly established facts here.

The town of Sanford, Florida has historically been a hotbed of KKK activity, including the town's refusal to let Jackie Robinson, the first black baseball player hired by the Brooklyn Dodgers, to participate in spring training in Sanford.

The line between Jackie Robinson and Trayvon Martin points to how institutional and systemic racism has actually always been in Sanford. Institutions change only when they are confronted and challenged. In Sanford, racist institutions took root and stayed.

Those are provable, indisputable facts.

Zimmerman was the aggressor in the confrontation with Trayvon Martin. He disobeyed police, who told him to stay in his car and NOT try to confront him. But he was a wannabe cop, he had a gun, and he wanted to use it. A black teenager wearing a hoodie was a perfect target!

Who, in a town with a history--and set of attitudes--like Sanford's, would question him?

I am not in favor of capital punishment. BUT absolving Zimmerman and releasing him back onto the streets again—and giving him his gun back!—is just giving this trigger-happy thug permission to do it again!

But that's the way it is. In Sanford, Florida.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 05:04 PM

Quoth Q: I will say no more.

You WILL say no more, or you've been caaught out and CAN'T say any more in substantiation of your ridiculous charge?

And yes, I know, "Some of your best friends are Negroes."

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 05:07 PM

Your posts over a long period of time are the evidence of your reverse bigotry.

And by the way, Q, its a shame we can't have Azizi's commentary on that statement or the commentary of other Black folks..

Gotta remember, MudCat is an all-White forum.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 06:31 PM

Dork: "...town's refusal to let Jackie Robinson, the first black baseball player hired by the Brooklyn Dodgers, to participate in spring training in Sanford."

IN 1945!!..About 70 YEARS ago!!...I think the South has made 'some' strides since then, don't you think?...ooops, maybe you don't.

Dork: "The line between Jackie Robinson and Trayvon Martin points to how institutional and systemic racism has actually always been in Sanford. Institutions change only when they are confronted and challenged. In Sanford, racist institutions took root and stayed."

You've asked them?? That part of your post is an opinionated ASSumption, or something you gathered from Robot, who thinks we're KKKers, too.
Not really super reliable, there.

Dork: "Zimmerman was the aggressor in the confrontation with Trayvon Martin. He disobeyed police, who told him to stay in his car and NOT try to confront him."

Do you think that the police may have had suspicions of Martin, as well?...being as they ADVISED Zim, not to confront him?..AND, getting out of his car, and following him, is not quite exactly 'aggression'.
Maybe 'curiosity' or wanting the unfamiliar face, to know somebody has an eye on him, but your JUMP to being 'the aggressor' is a bit of an overreach, don't ya' think???......Maybe not(it's easier for some people to speak BEFORE they think it through...

Dork: "But he was a wannabe cop, he had a gun, and he wanted to use it."

Oh???...HE WANTED to use it???...That's quite a JUMP there..and who told you that???...were you in his brain??....(maybe so, he did do some stupid things)

Dork: "A black teenager wearing a hoodie was a perfect target!"

A 'perfect target'?? For who?? You?? Robot?? a neighborhood watch guy with NO history od racial bias...in fact, if you would have done your homework beforehand, you'd know that Zim, worked with 'minorities' long before this stupid shit took place...look it up...but that might require some thinking, and harder yet, some reasoning!

Dork: "BUT absolving Zimmerman and releasing him back onto the streets again—and giving him his gun back!—is just giving this trigger-happy thug permission to do it again!"

The jury found him 'not guilty' AS CHARGED, so releasing him is usually what they do...especially if he was out on bail in the first place...and being 'not guilty' AS CHARGED, they have to release his propert back to him..but don't worry, the DoJ held it up, and now they still have the gun. Think Holder will sell it to a drug cartel??

Dork: "...is just giving this trigger-happy thug permission to do it again!".

Trigger happy?? Thug?..If he was either of those, he would have shot him, before he was on the ground, with nowhere to go but being punched out.
THESE are trigger happy thugs, which you quietly skipped over, not a peep!

Why don't you and the Robot, actually go into your local ghettos, and DO something to make life better, all the way around??
Answer: Because other than on here, trying to be the spokesman for the black community, I don't think either of you give a shit, except on here, to try to impress the other wannabe 'so-called liberals' that you're 'more deeply concerned about them'...just so long as it doesn't mean you have to get down WITH them!
Phil Ochs nailed you lightweights, years ago!..Maybe if you wave your arms and frantically stomp around and make a fuss, nobody will suspect you of not giving a shit, anyway!
...I mean, you didn't give a shit about your kid, now you want us to believe that you've wrapped yourself in blankets of deep concern for your fellow man????
Give me a fucking break!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 07:00 PM

What I wrote are not MY assumptions about Sanford, Florida, the information was culled and distilled from a number of news stories and histories of both Sanford, Florida, the attitude prevalent in Sanford since the Jackie Robinson incident, and Zimmerman's personal history. There was much more there that I did NOT include, that's just as indicative of the kind of place Sanford is and the kind of person Zimmerman is.

Goofup, the foul-mouthed and ill-conceived nature of your post reveals your own racism, prejudice, and general lack of intelligence. I've heard smarter things from a Southern-born schizophrenic with Tourette's Syndrome.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 07:14 PM

As for the KKK???

Hey, they hated black people and mu7rdered them...

Zimmerman made a statement to the dispatcher about "these people always get away"... These people???

Then Zimmerman murdered Martin... And folks here worship Zimmerman and defend his actions...

What exactly am I missing here???

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,SJL
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 07:59 PM

GUEST, here's what I think. We have to argue or there would be no point to any of this. Then it would be like facebook where you post a pic of a cute kitty and everyone says "Awww." On the other hand, when you have argued your position 12 x's over, and you have still failed to persuade your adversary, the only sensible thing to do is agree to disagree. So I concede, and I like hanging out with you.

Don, he really is a goofus, isn't he?

And Greg, it really is a shame that we don't have the kind of diversity that would lead to a better discussion all around. I agree.

So now there's three of you. Q must be the wizard :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Jul 13 - 11:03 PM

Well, like Heinlein said, "When I'm done writing, I wash my hands"...

Robot: "Zimmerman made a statement to the dispatcher about "these people always get away"... These people???"

Your ASSumption is that he meant black people. He could have meant prowlers, taggers, burglars or any number of would be crooks.

Robot: "What exactly am I missing here???
If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck..."

Try substituting ANY of the above aforementioned for the word 'duck'...you can add a 'stranger in the neighborhood, walking close to the apartments', as well...now couldn't you??
You fault Zimmerman for profiling, but you've profiled Zimmerman as a racist 'nigger killer', just itching for the moment to pull it off...aren't you?...aren't you?? Let's be fair here, and make the same mistake that Zim, Martin, the professional race baiters, and the prosecution made..and that is jumping to conclusions, without the correct information. Hey, Rachel was telling Trayvon, that the guy following him, was a 'homosexual rapist'..and guess what?? NOBODY WAS RIGHT!...and someone died that night because of it...and of course, as I've had to say several times on here, 'History teaches us that man never learns from history!'..We can, without bias, allow for the 'benefit of the doubt'...BECAUSE NOBODY on the Forum, nor news media, was actually there that night, now were they?..and MY, I'm floored at how many cocksure 'expert witnesses' have showed up since!..and of course, bringing their personal biases with them!!

SJL: "And Greg, it really is a shame that we don't have the kind of diversity that would lead to a better discussion all around. I agree."

A great backhanded compliment!..Well done!

SJL: "GUEST, here's what I think. We have to argue or there would be no point to any of this."

Sometimes when people have unreasonable ASSumptions, and FAIL to persuade, the 'less than gullible', maybe they, the promoters of divisions and hostilities, might just catch themselves running out of bullshit to spread...then maybe, it might just cause them to re-examine themselves, and where there coming from..and maybe even 'why?'. Then maybe, they can discipline themselves to think first, before the sew discord, based on their personal problems.

We, as musicians SHOULD be taking a higher stance with us, and give it to those who listen to us play. Music can inspire...why just regurgitate the crap on the news, reinforcing the biases that have been especially prepared to deceive people???

Oh, and that's 'Mister Goofus' to you, ma'am.
Wink!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 01:56 AM

That goofus remark was just a joke. GfS I was just kidding.

You know what, I'm thinking that George Zimmerman is a true sociopath who just wanted to kill somebody and he chose the right victim. Am I right Don? Am I right Greg? You guys know it. There are throwaway people. And there is something wrong with that man. Am I right or am I right? We don't need him. We have police who do not normally want to play cop, so to speak, and shoot somebody. They just check things out, and once everything checks out, everybody goes their way. No problemo.

Something wrong with that man. Don, you know it and Greg, you know it too. We're hoping he won't hurt anybody else. At the same time, we know that he is entirely capable. He got away with murder once. He'll stay quiet. In a way, that's the hard part. Sociopaths are smart. He won't try the same thing twice. So perhaps we won't have the satisfaction of seeing him punished as he deserved. But I don't think that was our objective in the first place. We just wanted to right and wrong ackowledged. We already have that in ourselves. We need no confirmation from the outside world.

Let's make a pact to go on our merry way, make our singular contribution in the world and forget that poor excuse for a human being. Not worth our time. But let's keep our eyes open. Cuz if he ever fucks up and we are around to see it? We'll celebrate amongst ourselves.

What goes around comes around.

Subject: RE: BS: Zimmerman defense-' Evidence withheld'
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Jul 13 - 02:47 AM

Yikes!!
I guess it's like a matter of 'free will'....
Speaking of which, I was asked one time if I believed in 'free will'...
..to which I answered, "Do we have a choice?"
But one thing I do know..as we press on to finish our existence here: 'As we get older we should also be getting wiser...because the end product of anyone of us being here, is to make the place better. Therefore your wisest decisions come from when we are happy. Happiness is not a 'goal' and never should be...it is a state of being, from where we exist and operate.. Therefore, the wisest decisions, to raise the level of the collective happiness, must come from a place that sees us as one. If a brother has fallen, lend a hand up...if you see them going in a wrong direction, point the way home...because that is where the place is, where there is Love....and that points the way to, our greatest, wisest decisions, that create a peaceful, happy existence. Your wisdom rests in always making those decisions, in Love, to promote Love, and in doing so, we are all raised together.
Now that can't be THAT hard, can it?

I guess it's like a matter of 'free will'....
Speaking of which, I was asked one time if I believed in 'free will'...
.. "Do we have a choice?"

Now, off for a late night/early morning practice session.

G'Night,

GfS