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BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!

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MGM·Lion 16 Nov 11 - 05:25 AM
Silas 16 Nov 11 - 05:35 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Nov 11 - 05:36 AM
banjoman 16 Nov 11 - 05:59 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Nov 11 - 06:37 AM
MGM·Lion 16 Nov 11 - 06:46 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Nov 11 - 08:41 AM
MGM·Lion 16 Nov 11 - 10:06 AM
BTNG 16 Nov 11 - 10:12 AM
MGM·Lion 16 Nov 11 - 10:23 AM
MGM·Lion 16 Nov 11 - 10:28 AM
Big Al Whittle 16 Nov 11 - 11:06 AM
BTNG 16 Nov 11 - 11:12 AM
MGM·Lion 16 Nov 11 - 12:11 PM
BTNG 16 Nov 11 - 12:20 PM
MGM·Lion 16 Nov 11 - 12:22 PM
Silas 16 Nov 11 - 12:38 PM
BTNG 16 Nov 11 - 12:46 PM
BTNG 16 Nov 11 - 01:06 PM
MGM·Lion 16 Nov 11 - 01:06 PM
Silas 16 Nov 11 - 01:14 PM
MGM·Lion 16 Nov 11 - 01:16 PM
Silas 16 Nov 11 - 01:18 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Nov 11 - 01:18 PM
BTNG 16 Nov 11 - 01:20 PM
GUEST,Emberto Uco 16 Nov 11 - 04:01 PM
Big Al Whittle 17 Nov 11 - 03:36 AM
goatfell 17 Nov 11 - 11:01 AM
Arnie 17 Nov 11 - 11:38 AM
BTNG 17 Nov 11 - 11:54 AM
GUEST,Teribus 17 Nov 11 - 02:57 PM
GUEST,Doc John 17 Nov 11 - 05:25 PM
BTNG 17 Nov 11 - 06:20 PM
Joe Offer 17 Nov 11 - 06:54 PM
Stilly River Sage 17 Nov 11 - 06:57 PM
BTNG 17 Nov 11 - 07:08 PM
Big Al Whittle 17 Nov 11 - 07:50 PM
BTNG 17 Nov 11 - 08:04 PM
Stilly River Sage 17 Nov 11 - 11:05 PM
BTNG 17 Nov 11 - 11:24 PM
Jack the Sailor 17 Nov 11 - 11:42 PM
Big Al Whittle 18 Nov 11 - 11:30 PM
Jack the Sailor 19 Nov 11 - 01:22 AM
Little Hawk 19 Nov 11 - 03:13 AM
GUEST,Teribus 19 Nov 11 - 03:41 AM
Big Al Whittle 19 Nov 11 - 04:21 AM
Big Al Whittle 19 Nov 11 - 04:31 AM
GUEST,Teribus 19 Nov 11 - 05:25 AM
Silas 19 Nov 11 - 05:34 AM
Little Hawk 19 Nov 11 - 06:07 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:25 AM

"hanging from a lampost in Rotherham". ~~ "reign of terror" ~~

Try being a bit consistent at least.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Silas
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:35 AM

The sooner she drops off the twig the better.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:36 AM

No MGM. there was nothing democratic about the way Thatcher acquired power.

As the Spycatcher book made clear. The right wing elements in this country subverted the democratic process. An unholy mix of the security services and Murdoch's evil empire. That's how they ditched Edward heath and captured the tory party. That's how she smeared and defamed the Labour government.

That's why she moved heaven and earth to suppress the book.

One of the most shameful things Blair did was to leave untouched the electoral system that that gave Thatcher nearly 60 percent of the parliamentary seats with less than 40 percent of the vote.

The areas in the the country that weren't voting for her felt the violence of her wrath. You southerners were quick enough onto the streets after a few months of the poll tax. Scotland had suffered that for an entire year already.

One of the most distressing things was to hear the very people , the very generation who had fought fascism, parrotting fascist nonsense - fifty pakis living in one council house all claiming benefits, and filling up the hospital wards. Most tories were bitterly ashamed of what she did to their party. But it was bloody difficult arguing with success. It was like the Germans generals - after Blitzkreig had succeded in toppling France, just a few short years after they had failed for four years.

None of which matters. If you didn't live in the afflicted areas of England - you simply have no idea of the trauma these places suffered. Sneering at the people who saw their communities devastated is not nice. Its like if you went to some earth quake zone - and sneered at the people left trying to pick up the pieces, with no option but living amonst the rat infested ruins.

Doubly so, because these were settled communities that people had lived in for many years and hoped that their children would live in too. Places with their own culture and values. Incidentally also the very places from where sprang many of these ballads and folksongs that you love.

But like I say, it doesn't matter. what is strange is that an aien culture feels that it has a handle on it - when we clearly don't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: banjoman
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 05:59 AM

My greatest fear is about the pomp & lies that will abound when she does finally pop her clogs and is awarded a state funeral.
She has also passed her penchant for evil doings to her son "Sir" Mark Thatcher who is lucky not to be languishing in aan African Jail. I expect Mummy got him out of that one. Also, don't forget that David Cameron is quoted as saying that she will be remembered as one of this country's greatest Prime Ministers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 06:37 AM

Mark Thatcher is the richest arms dealer in the world - with that kind of money, he no longer needs Mummy's help.

Dennis in many ways was the part of the equation that people missed or overlooked. Far from the being the drunken buffoon depicted in Private Eye, he was very rich and very intelligent and masterminded much of the Thatcher success story.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 06:46 AM

Al ~ Show me a PM in the last 60+ years elected with a majority [over 50%] of the total vote. Just not the way our system works. Attempts to change it, as you well know, do not meet with majority support. Either accept the results of our democracy, or, if unable to do so, live with them. I sneer at nobody ~~ sneering is alien to my nature. Or if I was, arguably, aqdopting a somehat scornful tone, it was not at the unfortunate colliers of Rotherham, the instability of whose employment was no fault of Maggie's, but at the bleeding♥-libs like theleveller who try to make political capital out of their unhappy plight. Their all-too-tickle livelihood would have gone whoever had been elected, and you well know it. But it is no good denouncing the clearly expressed will of the people either. Our democratic process was not 'subverted' ~~ it was simply employed in the way it works. If you don't like that way ~~ as you clearly don't ~~ then you are at perfect liberty under it to work for its alteration. But it is just silly to denounce it as undemocratic for not producing the result you would like; which would, in the long term, I repeat, not have saved the jobs of the Rotherham men anyhow.

You can get equally disappointing, to your sort of thinkers, results with the other sorts of system too: see the Palestine thread about what Begin's lot has done to Israel; & he was not elected on any sort of '1st past the post' of our kind, but by one of the Proprtnl Reprsntn pantomimes so many over your side are always agitating for.

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 08:41 AM

The mining industry was perfectly sustainable. As was half a hundred other industries that bit the dust under monertarism.

What really buggered English industry was leadership at every level. management, unions....the lot!

What made the defeat of the mining unions especially poignant was the fact that all the kings horses and all the kings men were assembled to do the dirty on an uneducated sector of society.

as for democracy - it only works if a spirit of fair play is involved. Nixon was impeached for much less than the Thatcher faction got away with.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 10:06 AM

-The term Watergate has come to encompass an array of clandestine and often illegal activities undertaken by members of the Nixon administration. Those activities included "dirty tricks" such as bugging the offices of political opponents and people of whom Nixon or his officials were suspicious. Nixon and his close aides ordered harassment of activist groups and political figures, using the FBI, CIA, and the Internal Revenue Service. The activities became known after five men were caught breaking into Democratic party headquarters at the Watergate complex in Washington, D.C. on June 17, 1972.- wiki
.,,.,.
And you reckon 'the Thatcher faction' ever did anything comparable to that. Your prejudices are in danger of robbing you of the sense & judgment you were born with, Al. Who do you think you are ~~ Jim Carroll?

Democracy - "the worst possible system of government ~~ except for all the others." Now, who was it that said that?

We don't have 'uneducated sectors of society' ~~ not since 1870. How patronising can you get?

~M~


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 10:12 AM

fortunately I've never taken MtheGM seriously so I always have a jolly good laugh at her/his postings *LOL*


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 10:23 AM

We aim to please, BTNG.

As I always sign "~Michael~" to at least my first post on any thread, don't get where your "his/her" comes from. Your meaningless initials, otoh, could mean just about bloody anyone? Martian, are you? Epicene? Big Tits No Good? Back To Novi Novgorod? Bottoms To Natalie Gibson?

I think we should be told -

❤♥☺〠~M~〠☺♥❤


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 10:28 AM

Or, anyhow, Novinov Gorod


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:06 AM

Well its a few years since i read the book, but the answer is 'yes'. The people behind Thatch got away with far more than Nixon, and the augean stables of MI5 never gets cleaned. USA is a far more open society - not a better one, but a far more open one.

And I think you have to stress - it was a faction behind Thatcher. You were a teacher when she was Minister of Ed - be honest, did you even suspect her of being very right wing at the time? I was a teacher and i thought she was really moderate compared to Shirley Williams.

And if you were a teacher, you probably know that we spent much of the 1970's begging for the resources, and setting up remedial reading departments for our country's massive illiteracy problem. All that went west, when Keith Joseph inaugurated the national Curriculum, and instead of dealing with the problems under our noses, we made illiterate kids sit in French and German lessons. Thatcher became the PM who insisted the nation follow a 1952 Grammar School curriculum.

Macregor the only Minister of Ed with balls to stand up to her was shipped off to count the bodies in NI, mostly caused by Thatch and Tebbit mouthing off.

I patronise no one, but half the country IS functionally illiterate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 11:12 AM

Being somewhat of the right wing, MtheGM (let's keep in formal,anything else infers something that isn't true) I was at first afraid I might offend you, but if these initials of mine do offend, too bad. Their meaning is actually available on the net, and I have Eliza Carthy to thank for them, she and the rest of The Imagined Village gang that is, so take it up with her, if you dare.

BTNG
(Bollocks To Nick Griffen)
childish but it works!


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:11 PM

Eliza Carthy! Oh, no! I am trembling in my frilly french knickers!

"let's keep in formal,anything else infers something that isn't true" ~

I suppose you meant 'it', not 'in'

and 'implies' not 'infers'

Keep trying: I daresay you might get something right one day. Ooh, look! outside the window! flying piggy!

☠~M~☠


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:20 PM

I speak and write English the way I speak and write English, and have no need of lectures from the likes of you, I don't pretend my typing is perfect, nor do I intend to do anything about it.

and have looked up both infers and implies, both work equally as well

Keep trying MtheGM you might be something one day, but I doubt it, I really do doubt it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:22 PM

"Equally well", not "equally as well".


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Silas
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:38 PM

Oh Dear Michael, be very careful that you don't grab the tiger by the tail here - always a dangerous route when you correct someones spelling or grammar.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 12:46 PM

It's not considered polite either...but I doubt MtheGM knows anything about that, it's all in the breeding, something MtheGM lacks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:06 PM

I wonder what the right are afraid of. I see no problem with making a film about "That dreadful woman" (to quote my mother, who was and is a Conservative). It just seems a matter of who should make the said film.

Just in case there some who haven't seen this:

The Iron Lady/Meryl Streep


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:06 PM

Listen, young man. I don't know what is eating you; or indeed much at all about you. But I gather from context that you are about the age of Eliza, who happens to be the daughter of two of my oldest friends, though both some years younger than me. I am, to be precise, just a few days over 79 & 6 months - 7 years older than Norma & 9 than Martin; so not likely to be around to plague you for too much longer. Meanwhile, just for a little while, go away and leave me to live out what can't be more than my few remaining years in some sort of tranquillity.

If you can't, do not trouble yourself to reply anyhow. Yours, along with very few others, is now added to the list of the Cat-names whose posts I shall not even trouble to read as I know there will be nothing in them worth my while reading.

As to my making something of myself: if you do not know who I am or what my long and distinguished critical and journalistic career with regard to the Folk-scene and the Theatre has comprised, then you had better do some homework. At my age, one tends naturally to be a bit of yesterday's man to be sure. But just try a bit of research.

And, Silas, butt out, you nosy-parkering little nuisance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Silas
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:14 PM

Dear Micheal, you do have a fixation about your age, don't you? Sadly, age does not always bring wisdom. (or manners)


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:16 PM

Maybe not ~~ but at least I can spell your name...


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Silas
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:18 PM

Ahh....yes. Spelling again.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:18 PM

I've always felt that frilly French knickers have an important part to play in the folk revival. damn good idea. lead by example - see if you can get some of the women to follow suit.

As always - we're right behind you Mike. (although not in the salacious sense).


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: BTNG
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 01:20 PM

Do research!!!! You're not worth my time, nor any effort required, MtheGM, and to be less polite than Silas, I don't give a fuck about your age.

Once more I am honoured, nay, overwhelmed, to be on such a select list


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: GUEST,Emberto Uco
Date: 16 Nov 11 - 04:01 PM

My mother is 79

She has suffered enough the real consequences of Thatcher and her sycophantic acolytes blight on our economy and society
to tolerate the like of MtheGM's petty antagonisms;

and she would certainly not be at all impressed by anyone of any age
behaving in such a pompous patronising egotistical manner.

Having said that, she can't stretch her pension far enough to afford the luxury
of computers and internet
to be able to join in this wankfest forum debate
with her more privileged better off silver surfer contemporaries.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 03:36 AM

see what I mean.....divisive!


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: goatfell
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:01 AM

A horror film


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Arnie
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:38 AM

Bring back Spitting Image. The restaurant scene where Thatcher refers to the cabinet as 'the vegetables' will long live in my memory. The team behind SP would have a field day with the present lot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: BTNG
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:54 AM

There'a Two Sides To Everything
and

Idol and The Idol Worshiper


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 02:57 PM

Good heavens all the Lefties moaning as usual.

The great Al who would obviously have been delighted to pay £250 per ton of coal from Markham Main instead of buying it at £8 per ton mined open cast in Australia and delivered. How very nice to support Mr Scargill and keep him in a manner to which he and his fellow trade union bosses could rapidly become accustomed. Unfortunately the knock on effects for British business and the British people would have been disastrous.

Come Al tell us all how great times were in the 1970's - Ah the rolling power cuts, the rubbish in the streets, the IMF hand-outs, the three-day week. C'mon Al tell us all about it.

Let's see now Thatcher was elected to power in a landslide in 1979 - 32 years ago!!! - And you are still wittering on about it??. "Socialist" Parties have formed Governments since 1997 and have done what? (Apart from completely Fuck Up) - Oh of course "They weren't really "socialist" - They never are, nor ever will be you bloody idiots - because they will never work. Every Labour Government that has been elected since 1945 has successively ruined this country leaving it up shit creek without a paddle and the last lot were no exception, in fact they were so inept they even managed to make some of their predecessors look competent in a mediocre sort of fashion. But while mourning your lot remember it was Chancellor Brown (Gordon of Cartoon) who raided the pensions fund to buy votes and it was the same Brown who sold off British Gold Reserves at bargain basement prices, what an astute TWAT he was.

Who was it that pulled us out of the shit we were left in by Wilson, Heath and Callaghan? Margaret Thatcher and a bloody marvellous job she made of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 05:25 PM

I can think of a 20th century dictator who 'pulled their country out of the shit it was left in' and who was democratically elected too. At least we were able to ditch Thatcher before whe went down a similar path.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: BTNG
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 06:20 PM

All Teribus can do is insult, you know the saying..if you can dazzl'em with brilliance, baffle'em with bullshit...and Teribus you do that so well.

Oh, by the way I am not one of your dreaded socialists either, and my mother, God Bless her was and is a dyed in the wool capital "C" Conservative and she loathed and still loathes "That Dreadful Woman" as she referred to The Grocer's Daughter as.

When I think of her, I think of someone who had pretentions above her station in life, and was, in the end, swatted back down the social order, to where she belonged After all, all she was, was a tradesman's child wasn't she?


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 06:54 PM

Here's the article from the Huffington Post:

    'The Iron Lady': Margaret Thatcher's Friends Say Meryl Streep Film Insulting, Inaccurate


    Margaret Thatcher is by far one of Britain's most polarizing figures over the last half century, and so it is no surprise that the upcoming film about her life is already causing debate and anger.

    Starring Meryl Streep as the former British Prime Minister and conservative icon, the film depicts both Thatcher's professional life, including her hold on power between 1979 and 1990, as well as her personal journey, which includes her rise to the top and the years following her exit from office. The film isn't out to the public yet, and only a limited number of people have seen it, but just the idea of it has some of her allies up in arms.

    "She was never, in my experience, the half-hysterical, over-emotional, over-acting woman portrayed by Meryl Streep," Norman Tebbit, a member of her cabinet and former Conservative Party head, wrote in the Telegraph of London. She could be difficult and demanding, he acknowledged, but not at all like the woman he has seen in trailers for the film.

    "I do not know whom the makers of the Meryl Streep film talked to. Perhaps Michael Heseltine or Geoffrey Howe, but certainly not me," he wrote; Heseltine was a member of Thatcher's cabinet who resigned and later stood against her in the Conservative Party election of 1990, while Howe was one of her top cabinet members before a demotion led to his resignation. "To judge the film from its trailer, they confined their inquiries to the Daily Mirror and perhaps Tim Bell's public relations firm."

    Bell, however, is also upset with the movie.

    "I can't see the point of this film. Its only value is to make some money for Meryl Streep and whoever wrote it," Lord Bell, one of Thatcher's key PR advisers, told the Telegraph. "I have no interest in seeing it. I don't need a film to remind me of my experiences of her. It is a non-event... It won't make any difference to her place in history of the fact of what she did."

    Streep, for her part, recently told the Daily Mail how honored she was to play Thatcher.

    "It was one of those rare, rare films where I was grateful to be an actor and grateful for the privilege of being able to look at a life deeply with empathy," she said in a glowing piece about the film's depiction of the former Prime Minister. "There's no greater joy."

    Political differences, Streep said, played no part in her portrayal.

    "I still don't agree with a lot of her policies," the Oscar winner said. "But I feel she believed in them and that they came from an honest conviction, and that she wasn't a cosmetic politician just changing make-up to suit the times. She stuck to what she believed in, and that's a hard thing to do."

    Reviews for the film have, thus far, praised Streep while questioning the full integrity of the script and story, a sort of split decision for the admirers of the actress and those personally offended by the the picture's veracity.

    "Streep, it transpires, is the one great weapon of this often silly and suspect picture," The Guardian's review offered. "Her performance is astonishing and all but flawless; a masterpiece of mimicry which re-imagines Thatcher in all her half-forgotten glory. Streep has the basilisk stare; the tilted, faintly predatory posture. Her delivery, too, is eerily good -- a show of demure solicitude, invariably overtaken by steely, wild-eyed stridency."


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 06:57 PM

You're all not getting a great deal of discussion in here about the film in the thread title. Character assassinations, childish arguing, yes - there are some trolls being fed here.

Spelling and grammar is simply another form of "manners" - we agree to do these things in a certain way, but even when not following those rules you still understand what each is saying. Get over it.

And who gives a rat's ass if someone was a "grocer's daughter?"

I expect Meryl Streep will get an earful as she works on this film, but she'll rise above it. I hope this film surprises you all with it's veracity and quality.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: BTNG
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 07:08 PM

"I expect Meryl Streep will get an earful as she works on this film'

exclusive to Silly River Sage: The film is ready for release

The Iron Lady: official website/blog

UK release date: 6th January 2012

The film's depiction of Thatcher has been criticised by her children, Mark and Carol Thatcher, who are reported to have said, "It sounds like some Left-wing fantasy

It wouldn't surprise me in the least if that's exactly what the film is
:-D


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 07:50 PM

The economic problems of the 1970's mainly sprang from the fact that petrol prices rose from twenty odd pence to £1.75 a gallon in a record time - due the OPEC countries getting their collective acts together.

Both Tory and Labour pre-Thatcher governments battled valiantly to save and sustain British industry.

Thatcher let the system go to hell. 28% of manufacturing industry gone in the second year of her first period of office. John Harvet Jones (hardly a red under the bed) called her policies pure insanity.

Teribus - anyone who voted for Thatcher was no patriot - not in my book. Your sneers of derision at the group of English workers who mined the coal that founded England's wealth speaks volumes.

Scargill and the TUC leaders of the 1970's weren't overbright. Any fool could see Thatcher's plan and how it would and ensnare them. She outwitted them easily. But they were bloody geniuses compared to you mate. At least they knew that the essence of making a business profitable involved keeping it in existence.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: BTNG
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 08:04 PM

It also appears teribus is all for "farming out" to countries outside of Britain, now that's NOT very patriotic is it, teribus? And you call yourself British!! HA!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:05 PM

BTNG, get a life. Change the tense. She got an earful. Big deal. Every thread where you participate soon falls apart from the intended topic as you abuse everyone who you don't agree with, turning it into a mud-slinging slug-fest that ends up about you. People will catch on eventually and stop feeding you - the troll.

SRS


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: BTNG
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:24 PM

and this thread is about the film The Iron Lady. Go ahead, disagree with me, that's your democratic right.

You're right, Al The TUC leadership of the time were definitely not rocket scientists, and Thatcher saw them coming, and took full advantage, history has shown the results. It appears that the whole confrontation with the miners is not in the film, I've checked cast lists and there is no one listed as playing the role of Scargill. They might get mentioned through others, of that I have no idea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 17 Nov 11 - 11:42 PM

BTNG from the trailer, it is not hard to see why their family is upset. They are portrayed as whiners who did not want her to be Prime Minister.

From what I have seen she is portrayed as a strong willed woman who bravely did what was necessary to keep the unions and liberals from ruining Britain and the world. Reinforcing tea party ideal and the myths created about Reagan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 11:30 PM

At this stage of the game, I really don't think we can afford to worry about the Yanks and the Tea party.

there are two questions facing the country.

1) Do we persist in the 'red in claw' policies which means we let businesses got to the wall, privatise wherever and whenever we can or do we prime the pump and try and help our few remaining businesses survive.

2) Do we tell America to get stuffed when it embarks on daft military adventures like the French do,. Or are the French being cheese eating surrender monkeys, and evading their responsibilities. Remember poor Harold Wilson who expressed some qualifications about the wisdom and practicality of the Vietnam war and got our economy turned into a punchbag for his temerity. Is our bread buttered better by letting them kill a few of our kids in uniform in some pointless altercation with people who have evaded education and civilisation for 600 years?


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:22 AM

Seriously Europe and Canada, militarily you are fucked. If the USA elects a Republican, you will be forced to spend a fortune on a huge treasure wasting war to make Iran "Democratic." (ie a wholly owned subsidiary of Exxon) or if Obama stays in you will have to pay your share of NATO as if it were a real military alliance instead of a paper tiger where the US pays to protect you in exchange for "prestige." The US is in debt. It will no longer pay for prestige.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 03:13 AM

Sounds fairly accurate to me...only, we might get a huge treasure-wasting war with Iran even IF Obama stays in office. After all, that may be what his corporate bosses want him to do. And it would also be a marvelous way for him to utterly scupper the Republicans and ensure his re-election in 2012 by depriving them of their treasured favorite issue by scooping it right out from under them.

Don't underestimate such a possibility. Either of those 2 parties is stupid and greedy enough, in my opinion, to start such a disastrous war in order to get themselves elected. (Not that I'm implying Obama is stupid. He's not. But that hardly matters if the power structure around him decides to have him do something stupid...and we've already seen some examples of that.)

Americans tend to re-elect presidents who are engaged in hot wars (Afghanistan doesn't work anymore, cos it's lasted way too long and everybody's fed up with it now...but a BRAND NEW war with Iran would be a real rally-round-the-flag booster...for awhile) Why, it would be disloyal to abandon the "commander-in-chief" in such a crisis situation. (sarcasm)


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 03:41 AM

So neither BTNG or Big Al can or want to attempt to tell us all how magnificent and great everything was before 1979. Having lived through those times I can assure you that there was nothing great about them at all.

By the bye Doc John, Hitler was never "elected" Chancellor of Germany - he was appointed by Hindenberg

Both agree that the likes of Scargill and the Trades Unions Leadership were no rocket scientists, both seem to consider them as what they actually were - downright buffoons. Yet they both seem to have been quite happy with this collection of clowns dictating to the elected governments of the day and wanted that practice to continue - Margaret Thatcher put an end to that game and thank God she did.

All down to petrol prices was it Al? so why did the same thing not happen about eight years ago when oil hit $145 per barrel. Someone else I think MtheGM stated quite rightly that British Industry was stuffed years before Margaret Thatcher came to power.

Britain's wealth made on coal?? You are joking aren't you, at best it was a component part of the equation no more, other countries had far more coal than the UK at the time and they had neither wealth or Empire. If there was ever any one thing that you could attribute Britain's wealth to, one thing that Britain had that no-one else did, then that one thing was her Royal Navy, if you doubt that then look at Britain's change in fortunes from 1694 onwards. The Navy secured the country from attack and allowed our merchants to trade unhindered, which fuelled both the agrarian and industrial revolutions which allowed our industries to flourish.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:21 AM

I suspect Teribus, it was down to which seats you were sitting in as to what you thought of the show.

If the Thatcher era was a good one for you, or even a tolerable one - I suspect you were not living in the eye of the hurricane. Try working in a slum school, and thenhaving that status taken away from you by you're wife getting disabled. then having the index linked allowances that you'd paid a huge fraction of yoour tiny salary eroded and taken away from you.

Then getting sneered at a Tory party conferences for being a scrounging bastard by Peter Lily in a Gilbert and Sullivan parodies

Then you get home, go to a folk club, and some middle class bastard tells you that your folk music isn't folk music any more.

That was how the 1970's and 1980's played out for me.

Like I say, if you got better seats to the Thatcher show - well done.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 04:31 AM

Oh yeh and on top of that some bloody Dave Spart character was telling you weren't a real socialist -so what he was going to do was stop Callaghan giving any election speeches by aggressive heckling - thu ensuring Thatcher's victory.

Sometimes I used to wonder if that nutcase running the TUC and the leftie eejits were MI5 plants. Lets face it Tricky Dickie was doing that sort of stuff across the pond in CREEP.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: GUEST,Teribus
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:25 AM

Would that be the same Callaghan as the Jim Callaghan of "What Crisis" Fame?? Al.

Every bloody "socialist" i.e. Labour Government that the UK has suffered has left the country poorer and in worse condition than it was when it came to power - The last period of Labour Governance under Blair and Brown was the worst of the lot, they succeeded in totally destroying the United Kingdom, and anyone who voted for them should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.

Oh Doc John, In 1982 Thatcher despatched British Troops in response to an attack and invasion of our territory by a foreign power. Blair committed British Troops to conflicts that lasted longer than the First and Second World Wars combined not to defend our country or our interests, but purely to support our position in NATO and the UN, his Chancellor and successor ensured that they went there under-funded, under-equipped and totally under-resourced. So if anyone was ever in danger of leading us down the path that you were talking about in your post it most certainly was not Margaret Thatcher.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Silas
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:34 AM

Well Teribus, good policy that, not allowing the facts to mess up a good rant.


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Subject: RE: BS: Yanks make a Thatcher film!!!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 06:07 AM

It is true that Hitler was not elected Chancellor, but appointed to that position in a parliamentary coalition:

"After two parliament elections—in July and November 1932—had failed to result in a majority government, President Hindenburg reluctantly agreed to appoint Hitler chancellor of a coalition government formed by the NSDAP and Hugenberg's party, the German National People's Party (DNVP). As a concession to the NSDAP, Hermann Göring, who was head of the Prussian police at the time, was named minister without portfolio. So although von Papen intended to install Hitler merely as a figurehead, the NSDAP gained key political positions.

On 30 January 1933, Adolf Hitler was sworn in as Chancellor during a brief and simple ceremony in Hindenburg's office. Hitler's first speech as Chancellor took place on 10 February. The Nazis' seizure of power subsequently became known as the Machtergreifung or Machtübernahme.

As chancellor, Hitler worked against attempts by his political opponents to build a majority government. Because of the political stalemate, Hitler asked President Hindenburg to dissolve the Reichstag again, and elections were scheduled for early March. On 27 February 1933, the Reichstag building was set on fire,[134] and since Marinus van der Lubbe, a Dutch independent communist, was found in the burning building, a communist plot was blamed for the fire. The central government responded with the Reichstag Fire Decree of 28 February, which suspended basic rights, including habeas corpus. Activities of the German Communist Party were suppressed, and communist party members were arrested, forced to flee, or murdered.[citation needed]

Besides political campaigning, the NSDAP used paramilitary violence and spread of anti-communist propaganda on the days preceding the election. On election day, 6 March 1933, the NSDAP increased its result to 43.9% of the vote, gaining the largest number of seats in parliament. However, Hitler's party failed to secure an absolute majority, thus again necessitating a coalition with the DNVP.

On 21 March 1933, the new Reichstag was constituted with an opening ceremony held at Potsdam's garrison church. This Day of Potsdam was staged to demonstrate reconciliation and unity between the revolutionary Nazi movement and Old Prussia with its elites and perceived virtues. Hitler appeared in a tail coat and humbly greeted the aged President Hindenburg.[136]

In the Nazis' quest for full political control—they had failed to gain an absolute majority in the prior parliamentary election—Hitler's government brought the Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enabling Act) to a vote in the newly elected Reichstag. The legislation gave Hitler's cabinet full legislative powers for a period of four years. Although such a bill was not unprecedented, this act was different since it allowed for deviations from the constitution.[136] Since the bill required a ⅔ majority to pass, the government needed the support of other parties. The position of the Centre Party, the third largest party in the Reichstag, turned out to be decisive: under the leadership of Ludwig Kaas, the party decided to vote for the Enabling Act. It did so in return for the government's oral guarantees of the Catholic Church's liberty, the concordats signed by German states, and the continued existence of the Centre Party.[137]

On 23 March, the Reichstag assembled in a replacement building under turbulent circumstances. Several SA men served as guards inside, while large groups outside the building shouted slogans and threats toward the arriving members of parliament. Kaas announced that the Centre Party would support the bill with "concerns put aside", while Social Democrat Otto Wels denounced the act in his speech.[138] At the end of the day, all parties except the Social Democrats voted in favour of the bill—the Communists, as well as several Social Democrats, were barred from attending the vote. The Enabling Act, along with the Reichstag Fire Decree, transformed Hitler's government into a de facto dictatorship."


So, the Nazis in fact never did get a majority mandate from the German people. What they did was to take over the government from within by clever political maneuvering and intimidation, and then establish a dictatorship.

******

It is also true that the Royal Navy was THE essential instrument in securing Britain's overseas empire and the wealth of the nation. If you are the dominant sea power in the world, you are also securely positioned to quickly move armies where they are most needed, to dominate trade and commerce, and thus enrich yourself. A number of other nations had a vigorous attempt at doing the same thing...Spain, Holland, Portugal, Sweden, and France, for example, but Britain superceded all of them in that game. After 1588, the Spanish never regained their former naval position of strength. After Trafalgar, no one could seriously challenge British dominance of the sea.

The next really serious threat came in the early 20th century, when the Kaiser of Germany attempted to build a fleet to rival Britain's, and that was probably the key factor in Britain eventually going to war against the German Empire in 1914. Britain won that naval conflict quite handily...and went on as the top naval power...but was having great difficulty affording to maintain such a navy. And the USA was rapidly overtaking Great Britain in that regard...and could afford to do so.

This led to an international naval agreement in the 20s to limit construction of capital ships (and to constrain the ambitious Japanese, who were also building a large fleet of new warships). Those agreements rebounded mainly to the benefit of the USA, as far as I can see, giving the USA naval parity with the UK, but they also gave the British some relief from having to participate in a frightfully costly naval race. The people who were most troubled by the agreement were the Japanese, and they began seeking ways around it (such as converting some new battleship hulls to aircraft carriers...which turned out to be one hell of a good idea...and secretely violating the treaty by concealing the real tonnage and other technical knowledge of some of their new ships).

In any case the naval race presently started up again in the 30s and the British soon found themselves in another world war, one which ended Great Britain's premier position as the greatest naval power in the world, utterly destroyed the very dangerous Japanese Navy, and passed the torch of Number 1 Naval Power to the prosperous USA.

And so it has remained until now. British economic dominance was not ended by the scrapping of most of the British fleet...the fleet's glory days were themselves ended by the decline of British financial power in the wake of 2 terribly costly World Wars, and the USA took over Britain's former role, in effect.

The Pax Britannica of the later 1800s had given way to what might have been termed the Pax Americana...if it had only been more peaceful...but it wasn't, as it involved an almost 50-year Cold War between the Western Alliance and the Communist Bloc.


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