BS: Let's talk about the US election

Subject: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Neil D
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 02:40 AM

WHAT. JUST. HAPPENED? How could you America? How could you make this sociopathic megalomaniac the most powerful man on earth? Do you no longer love democracy, fairness, civility, humanity? For the world will barely be recognizable in four years. An independent Ukraine will no longer exist. Europe may try to keep her afloat without us but when Trump and his Republican allies (they will win both houses of the legislative and with a 6-3 Supreme Court, they will have a complete hammerlock on our government) not only abandon Ukraine but betray her to the true ruler of America, Vladimir Putin, there is little hope for Ukrainians. When Xi Jinping sees that he will be salivating over conquest of Taiwan, with the US standing back to watch it happen. If you think Gaza is a disaster now, it will get worse. Trump has already stated that he will give Netanyahu whatever he needs to accomplish his goals in Gaza. Bebe's goal for Gaza is complete de-palestination. When we withdraw from all environmental protocols at the behest of the major corporate polluters the rest of the world will have no choice but to follow suit. We were already at the tipping point on climate change. Iould go on but I'm worn out by what I just witnessed.
I feel like I've been hit by a truck. I am confused. sick to heart and terrified. And I've never been more ashamed to be an American.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 02:56 AM

Much as I find Trump a crass personality, is a mistake to judge or pre judge a governments policies,before they have even taken office
What happens next is speculation.
At the present moment in time, Germany is occupied by USA army, the idea that Russia is going to invade Germany whilst the USA ARMY is in occupation is very unlikely, whoever wins the election.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 03:00 AM

If US has ever been worthy of any respect, as far as the rest of the world is concerned, they have just flushed it into the cesspit. Well, if they want a racist, misogynist, criminal as a leader it proves that Americans have not evolved enough to call themselves part of humanity. Lets hope the rest of the world turns its back upon the cesspit and leaves it to rot over the next four years.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 03:07 AM

US has two months to get trump behind bars for four years before it has a chance to take office.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 03:10 AM

SPB racism etc has occurred before in the USA remember McCarthy

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 03:17 AM

Look at some of Trumps promises - mass deportations, revenge, retribution. I suppose back street abortionists will be rubbing their hands with glee. Netanyahu, Orban and their ilk have already expressed their delight, I wonder why?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 03:21 AM

on the other hand if he puts taxes on British goods, it may put pressure on Starmer to negotiate with th EU or even rejoin eu or negotiate trade deals

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:22 AM

The political and economic shock will make the UK economic and social recovery after 14 years of tory misrule and corruption that much harder, no doubt Badenoch is over the moon as this will be something that the tories will no doubt blame Labour for.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:23 AM

There's this debate recently on Youtube going over the arguments for and against Harris and Trump. Conducted by intelligent articulate and relatively peaceful people. There is a lot there. Too bad the original Pres thread has been shut down. Reminds me of what happened to the Washington Post recently when the powers that be decided that endorsement was going too far. Anyhow, this mini-thread can be appended to the original if desired.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:32 AM

I linked to an article in The Economist on the original thread which endorsed Harris but gave what was, to my mind, a fair synopsis of the good and bad points for both candidates. It was poo-pooed but a reread of it gives me hope that not all is lost. It will be difficult to keep the mad dog on a leash for 4 years but, unlike our own Brexit madness, this will be reversed at the next election.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: skarpi
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:38 AM

America voted an Immigrant family to the White House.
An old man 78 years old who is going end up like Biden unless someone take him out like they did with Presedent Biden.

Looking from oustside well then I
Say this, be careful what you wish for
USA no one is what he seems to be.

This is a sad day for Plannet Earth.

Have good day
All the best.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:53 AM

Well said, Skarpi

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:56 AM

We can hope that he now loses interest and goes off to play golf, leaving the grown ups to run the country.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 05:11 AM

Project 2025 is the plan written by a group of conservatives including (I read)former advisors of Trump; he has disclaimed it…

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Neil D
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 05:30 AM

Just because he disavowed Project 2025 while running because of how popular it was doesn't mean he won't embrace it as president. Remember how every single Supreme Court justice stated under oath during the vetting process that they considered Roe vs Wade settled law and had no intention to overturn it. Then the first chance they got they overturned it because they are liars.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:11 AM

Message from Herself:

I write poems which I often recite on the monday mudcat sing around and sometimes I get Martin to post them on the poetry thread. I had an idea for one which I call Riding the Night Mare about the possibility, now reality of a second trump presidency. However I am already starting to self censor and will now only feel safe to share it with trusted friends. This may be an over reaction but I am afraid and I'm not even an American.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:11 AM

In my honest opinion....likely to be as successful as he was in building 'The Wall'

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:22 AM

> unlike our own Brexit madness, this will be reversed
> at the next election

.... assuming he doesn't follow through on his "one last time" statement and have himself declared emperor for life.

--- *Wailie*: now *I*'m self-censoring.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:45 AM

I'm up early, you say? How about I never got to sleep. Every rational person in the United States is horrified.

In the next two months Biden has to pack the Supreme Court with at least two more justices. We know it can be done quickly, look at how Trump added Coney Barrett. And there isn't a rule saying there are only ever nine justices. The House and Senate have been working since Biden got into office to case-harden many aspects of the federal system to avoid the crap that Trump pulled last time.

Trump inherited Obama's robust economy, then trashed it over four years, but I can't believe that as many people as voted for him have no understanding of that - so many mentioned the economy. Gas isn't going to go back down, but inflation isn't a problem right now, and again, they can't tell the difference. And Trump created worse boogeymen with his lying about the conditions of things than Never-Trumpers and Democrats were able to convince people about how scary Trump is with his Project 2025.

Now the place goes to hell in a handbasket. He's going to pardon everyone he can, going to try to take away civil service protection and qualifications for federal employees to turn them into his minions. NATO, Ukraine, it's all a horrible disaster.

No point in reopening the other thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:01 AM

And the electoral college has to go. It's a relic of the time when slave states wanted to keep the power to enslave people. That's pretty much what is happening again, the minority rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:07 AM

My commiserations, Stilly.

I really, really wish you could have posted 'I told you so' here but, sadly, the fears we have voiced over the last few months have happened :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:08 AM

Humor in the face of life's absurdities is more crucial than ever.
A resurgence of newly adapted Stalin jokes may be apropos.

The election confirmed that machismo, misogyny, racism, miscegenation, fear, hate, and the mythical power of the beleaguered hero have won the day in the USA.

The threat to science is also in play at the National Institutes of Health.

It is 1933 in 2024. A normalization of advancing hatred is now without guardrails in the House, Senate, Presidency, and the Supream Court.
A modern fascism will be without some of the key aspects of Hitler's fascism but there is now room for new ones. 1933 was still a time before wholesale murder was the common political practice. 2024 will be transformative but overall a time when freedom is squeezed hard.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:13 AM

How many of Trumps 71 million voters believe that they will be the one turkey pardoned the thanksgiving table?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:20 AM

According to the BBC News website, Trump has said he plans to put billionaire Elon Musk in charge of an audit of governmental waste. It wouldn't surprise me that if Musk gets a taste of governmental power, he could make a bid for President next time round.

If you are worried about what the next four years might bring, be very afraid of what could happen in 2028.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:26 AM

Musk isn't eligible, he was born in South Africa.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:26 AM

Dear Filk, hiding in fear helps no one, not even yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 07:32 AM

In European history we had successions of dynasties - can we now look forward to (dread) a dynasty of oligarchs?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 08:14 AM

In 1986 Ronald Reagan issued a sweeping amensty for all illegal immigrants who entered the US before 1982, part of a reform bill. I wonder if Biden could cobble together something like that ahead of Trump's slime trail arriving at the White House. That would certainly burst his bubble and help save the workforce here.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 08:56 AM

Value of Tesla shares have shot up overnight, looks like Musk may be getting a billion or so windfall then.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 09:51 AM

> Dear Filk, hiding in fear helps no one, not even yourself.

Panic is anger which hasn't had time to drop the clutch yet. And bravery *requires* fear, otherwise it's foolhardiness.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 09:51 AM

> looks like Musk may be getting a billion or so windfall

Only if he can cash in quick before the stock market tanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 10:57 AM

MaJoC the Filk - it was a remarkably fast turnaround this morning, from a horrible morass to a crisp bright anger. I've already set up a monthly donation to the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). This in turn has me shopping around to lower my Internet bill - it has bugged me for ages that they keep raising the price and say its faster but it isn't. So that $20 a month will be a wash when I switch to the lower cost plan and give the cash instead to the folks who do try to protect our liberties.

That's 100+ days out of Kamala Harris' life she'll never get back. I was fine with Biden, by the way, but after that debate (and even though he was always better than Trump), the seeds of doubt were there. The Democrats shot themselves in the foot when the moneyed ones started clamoring that Biden was too old. And if we want to trace this back further, it was a nice gesture that Biden made Merrick Garland the Attorney General, but Garland failed to act in a timely manner - if he'd started those trials back when he should have, this would be moot. (They say hindsight is 20/20, but Garland has annoyed a lot of people by being way too cautious.) Now we get to see who Trump can appoint to go after his very long list of enemies. That probably includes jurors, judges, prosecutors, etc. Though Fani Willis is still standing and still has a case she can now run. Somehow. Better do it fast.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 11:12 AM

Herself's trying to write that poem, but she's too angry at the moment, and that's getting in the way.

.... I would add more, but every time I try to do so I manage to hit *something* on the keyboard and/or mousepad which blanks the entire message. Mebbe it's trying to tell me something.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 11:56 AM

This morning, bureaucratic government is in full goose bonker panic mode. My response was to make peanut butter cookies with pecans.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 12:39 PM

The stock market in the US isn't tanking; quite the opposite today on the election result.
If I'm not mistaken, the Republican party now has the president, vice-president, Senate, Congress and Supreme Court. Think on that.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 12:54 PM

Majoc:

"Panic is anger which hasn't had time to drop the clutch yet. And bravery *requires* fear, otherwise it's foolhardiness.

Is that yours? I want to know who I'm stealing from. Esp. the first part.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 12:56 PM

Thompson, I never fail to appreciate your keen grasp on things.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 12:58 PM

Biden did not help,by making comments about Trump voters

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 01:13 PM

With everything lined up as it is, could he change the constitution so he can stay in power?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 01:30 PM

Yes and no.
The Constitution can be changed with a 2/3 majority vote by each State.
But, with unlimited power, Trump can merely ignore the Constitution or change its function by decree, unconstitutionally.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 02:02 PM

Anger leads to panic, panic leads to fear. fear leads to anguish...
or any other combination of words that might fit in the moment.

Trump has many Goebbels wannabes like Tucker Carlson but he already has FOX as a propaganda branch of his government. For immigrant deportation camps, he has Miller and others to do the dirty work. Trump has more support from the Air Force than the other branches so there may be a purge of generals and admirals. RFK will be in charge of health?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 02:37 PM

robomatic: I can't remember where I got the second part from (possibly Sir Pterry --- it sounds like one of his). I admit responsibility for the other bit, with all due credit to Stilly for inspiring it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: meself
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 02:44 PM

So, the wealthiest and most powerful country on earth has elected as president a vicious, senile, old degenerate who just wanted a way to stay out of prison - and found it. It sounds like the basis for a mid-20th century comedy, but the aspiring president would have to be a loveable rogue and the country a banana republic.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:06 PM

I haven't even looked at the other contests and races
in my area, although I already heard it announced
that our US Senator was elected for another term (Democrat).

When I have my wits about me again,
I will look up those other senators, representatives, and ballot questions
to see what results there are.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:22 PM

The journalistic take seems to be that this election was decided by class - the working class having voted for the Republican candidate and the upper middle and upper class for the Democratic candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 04:47 PM

SRS..
"And the electoral college has to go."
   Of course it does, even though it wouldn't have helped this time. I am totally aghast at the poplar vote.
   Clearly, empty promises, catering to single-issue voters and general ignorance...fed by Fox News...has overwhelmed rationality.
   It will be interesting to see what Biden & Harris manage to salvage in the next few months, but I can only hope (no prayer!)
   Once the first shock was over, I refused to turn to the predictable 'analyses' by the pundits and just retreated into reading an important book about how to think.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 05:53 PM

It is late but it sounds like no one has been drinking.

Biden has some responsibility in this election result but twice as many Latino men voted for Trump this time around.
I would have sold out and chosen a candidate like Gavin Newsome ugh
At least he would not risk a gender gap bias.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:09 PM

BillD, the first Trump administration was a result of the electoral college. That's the problem.

I don't know what kind of a bind Judge Merchan is in, but it would soothe a lot of angry brows if he would sentence Trump to prison time. Even if he never serves it, he sure as hell deserves it.

Subject: RE: BS: US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 06:14 PM

So many people are wishing that M-i-*-t-e-r C-r-o-o-k-* (see Wikipedia) had been a better shot. I never thought I'd be writing that.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 08:23 PM

Look on the bright side. At least Kamala Harris is less likely to be the target now. The shooters can underestimate her while she and Biden work together to make life as difficult as possible for Trump when he slinks into the White House.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Nov 24 - 08:36 PM

Their job is to make the transition smooth (unlike what he did for them) but they certainly will want to reinforce the furniture and have washable paint on the walls in rooms where he has been known to throw food. When Joe and Jill walked to the entrance at the White House on Biden's inauguration they had to wait for someone to answer the door; as he departed Trump had insisted to the staff that they all take the day off. Fortunately some of the staff knew what was up and were ready. Trump also didn't attend Biden's inauguration, as most former presidents have when their successor is sworn in. I'm curious to see if Biden attends (or if Trump makes a fuss and excludes him?) Such a cretin.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 02:14 AM

67,927,989 votes (47.6%)HARRIS
72,623,882 votes (50.9% TRUMP
Here is a link from the financial times, jourmalistic speculation on how it affects Europe
https://www.ft.com/content/34dd1f1c-d8a0-4669-b63f-71fe31f3157b

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 02:20 AM

here is a Link from the BBC, how election result could possibly affect the UK
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cgk132vymm0o
My opinion is that this might POSSIBLY force the uk government to negotiate trade deals With Europe

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 04:46 AM

here are some things he will not do ,socialise the means of production introduce a national health service, nationalise the railways

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 06:17 AM

SRS: Every rational person in the United States is horrified.

That, of course, implies that over 50% of American people are irrational. Perhaps that is the problem, and Trump is just the person to represent them (the majority).

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 07:31 AM

IF that is the case why have stocks and shares gone soaring up after Trumps victory, are shareholders irrational?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Hrothgar
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 07:55 AM

Will he now burn the Reichstag so he can blame his enemies?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 08:08 AM

The German government is rocking on its foundations.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 09:24 AM

DtG wrote: "We can hope that he now loses interest and goes off to play golf, leaving the grown ups to run the country."

I doubt that this time around the old jackass is going to allow any grownups into the room to say no to him. He's got more than a few criminal types from his previous administration to choose from.
We're not just in for a bumpy ride we're on a rocket sled to hell. Sorry for the negativity but it's all so damn depressing.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 09:25 AM

> IF that is the case why have stocks and shares gone
> soaring up after Trumps victory, are shareholders
> irrational?

In general, it's the margins. From the outside, the effect is that of a bunch of headless chickens; inside, every individual stockbroker (and more to the point, every individual quant's computer program) is attempting to game the system. Playing the stock market is horseracing for posh boys, all with other people's money.

In this particular case, it's party time for the wide boys.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 09:48 AM

The point I was trying to make, gillymor, is that he does not seem too interested in actualy doing the job of running a country. He just wanted to be president to stay out of prison. Now he has achieved that goal I suspect he will let others do the actual management for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 10:15 AM

I got that, Dave. I don't mean to rain on your parade but I'm thinking that the "grown ups" he chooses this time around are going to be far worse than the last batch, some of whom did act like responsible adults and tried to curb his meaner instincts. He doesn't care, he doesn't have to run again, he'll be looking for folks with a high sleaze factor who won't get in his way. There are a few felons out there that he pardoned who will probably be filling out job applications and wind up among those running things while he's out cheating on the golf course. Not a rosy picture.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 10:41 AM

The stock market hit 2 all-time highs before the election and once after. So what.

Rational / irrational are part of the human condition based upon information and choices.



In the simplest possible terms...there are more simple people than complex people, therefore...

Given the choice between electing felon Tony Soprano or a recent woman district attorney, America chose tough guy Tony Soprano for President, which is a tough job.

Kamala did not survive being shot in the ear by an assault rifle.
Trump did.
She did not face 5 indictments.
Trump did.
She did not suffer the trials and tribulations that Trump faced in the minds of the average person.
She did not have a religious wave of Christian nationalism behind her.
Harris was merely a highly educated lawful conscientious servant of the people.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 11:02 AM

Trump was a lousy candidate and Harris was an excellent one. Biden never should have run for a 2nd term or should have exited much sooner, he hamstrung the process. That said, it looks like the electorate moved hard right and Daffy Duck could have run as the GOP guy and won. Inflation, brought on by Trump's mishandling of COVID, may have been the deciding factor. A trip to grocery store is a pretty dismaying event for most folks.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 11:15 AM

The electorate thought differently to you,
the grown up are just the same, big corporations, they have just chosen to back a different puppetThe Man in the Mask

Notes: words and music by Malvina Reynolds; copyright 1971 Schroder Music Company, renewed 1999.






















Come sit down beside me before the big T.V.
And watch the funny pictures they have there to look at,
Shampoo for your hair and the last polar bear,
And the man on the moon who was walking around
Then left, leaving junk on the once virgin ground.

There's old timey movies with old fashioned dresses,
The kidnap of babies and other such messes,
There's football and baseball and guys selling cars,
And then there's The Man in the Mask.

Chorus:
They say it's his face, but I just can't believe it.
It looks like a mask that I saw in the store.
It talks with deep feeling about ending some war
And stopping inflation, and it's so fantastic,
You'll cry while you're laughing, and roll on the floor.

Every four years he puts a new mask on.
Each one is worse than the one he had before,
But the words are the same and the same earnest manner,
About ending inflation and stopping the war.

The sponsors paid out a million of millions
To get him up there with his magic routine,
But it's really a bargain, 'cause there's such a margin
In war and inflation and the big T.V. screen
That gives us The Man in the Mask.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: meself
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 11:17 AM

Trump - "tough guy Tony Soprano"?? That's like calling a yappy chihuahua a "tough dog pitbull".

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 11:19 AM

Ditto, meself.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 12:37 PM

That, of course, implies that over 50% of American people are irrational

Not ness. I heard a lot of interviews in which people says "Yes, he says those things but he doesn't mean them."

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 12:43 PM

You guys are not young men or blinded by machismo.
Trump looks far more different to a 20 year old young man who has an affinity for being badass.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 01:30 PM

> I heard a lot of interviews in which people says
> "Yes, he says those things but he doesn't mean them."

They said that last time, and behold, he did. Never underestimate the power of an overcompensated inferiority complex.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 04:50 PM

In the history of US Presidential elections, the incumbent president's approval rating is what the president will win by or lose by.

Harris broke that rule for the first time in history by getting 8% more than the incumbent Biden's approval rating of 42%.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 06:29 PM

For Black Women, 'America Has Revealed to Us Her True Self'
Kamala Harris's resounding defeat affirmed the worst of what many Black women believed about their country, even as some looked to the future with a wary determination.

Gift article, all should be able to read it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Nov 24 - 07:16 PM

Creating a better society is possible Stilly. It's getting closer.
In the short run a winner has to paint a perception that is both true and will stick in the minds of people who generally can not name their Senator.
Peddling hope is less effective than; agreeing, showing why they are mad, and lastly give a simple clear slogan and lasting solution.

Yeah I call it hypnosis but Republicans are good at it and Democrats aren't. It's time Dems do the best thing for the greater good.

The long run is the stuff of legacy and history. It will write itself if the short run is handled well.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Nov 24 - 03:28 AM

It's time Dems do the best thing for the greater good.
What do you mean by the best thing, Donuel?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Nov 24 - 04:44 AM

Mean while the country occupying Germany with bases is not Russia but America , i think it is unlikely Trump will remove all bases or any. we must wait and see

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 08 Nov 24 - 01:58 PM

Just remember, fewer than 25% of the American eligible voters voted for Trump.

All is not lost.

I fear that some people who voted for Trump will find, to their regret, exactly what they voted for.

Linn

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 24 - 02:00 PM

The best thing may require mind control techniques similar to the Republicans which I consider to be a sacrifice of certain ethics regarding not getting people's permission. Sometimes to achieve a greater good ya gotta do some semi unsavory things.

It is far less invasive and injureous than project 2025.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 08 Nov 24 - 02:55 PM

So what's your plan, Don, are you gonna make America cluck like a chicken?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Nov 24 - 04:10 PM

MAFA make America free again - the antithesis of MAGA

Most civil servants are Schedule C employees that can only be terminated by cause. Bigger wigs are schedule F employees who are appointed by the President and serve at the pleasure of the President, which means 'fired'. Even before project 2025 Republicans want to make most civil service employees schedule F so they can be fired and replaced by the President. It did not go according to their plan but Project 2025 is bringing this process of mass firing back. My family is better off than many government workers since we are under Maryland law which has more protection than Virginia. Project 2025 hopes to destroy the bureaucrats/agencies in three other ways. There will be ongoing fights without a doubt. Elon Musk will be playing his villainous part. He will claim he is improving efficiency and saving money but he will be destroying function. With all the Trump loyalists replacing people who already have experience the learning curve for the replacements and vacancies could take a lifetime.

The other ways to destroy the government are things like starving it out without appropriations. For government workers who see how the sausage is made they are not the enemy deep state that Trump believes we are. We do make inconvenient witnesses to Trump corruption.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Nov 24 - 04:28 PM

Inconvenient witnesses from the last time may be first on his hit list. I fear for the National Archives.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 01:10 AM

WAshington Week with The Atlantic explained some of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 02:21 AM

if the turnip pardons itself, the next president needs to revoke the pardon the day after taking office.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 02:48 AM

Can we make judgements on what he actually does in office and his policies when they actually take place

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 06:12 AM

Can we make judgements on what he actually does in office and his policies when they actually take place

We can, Sandman; but we can conjecture based on his first term, and those who surrounded him in that term and those who now will be his team.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 07:30 AM

we can conjecture...
however theres only so many ways you can spell shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 07:33 AM

You can do whatever you like, The Sandman, but I've seen this shit show before and now that he no longer has to answer to voters and will soon own the DoJ (one of the entities that's trying to bring him to justice) and will effectively be above the law, it's a safe bet that things will be far worse this time around.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 07:57 AM

Planning ahead and being prepared does precede acts by a vengeful person. If you have no skin in the game getting ready ahead of time might seem silly.

Mass deportations are expensive. Deporting Jews from Germany would have been cost-prohibitive. Using Jewish slave labor was actually profitable. It was cheaper to kill them all.

Mass deportation will be quite a boondoggle with money for all involved except immigrants. The family separation will be the biggest tragedy in modern US history in my book. What happens to the children born here by immigrants?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 08:45 AM

What has happened to the USA has been brewing for 40 to 50 years
The concept of a public good has been replaced by a greedy selfishness of SELF concern culminating in Trumpism.
Locally an initiative to not allow ambulance service to those who can not pay was a big issue.

The toxic combination of selfishness, greed, and hatred has become the norm. "My own concerns are all that matter" is the credo of America today. Public good is out the door.

What has happened here is about who we are. Trump did not create this philosophy, we did.

Democrats are still playing the game on a Republican field.
We need to be more honest about who we are, who we could be and why.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 09:07 AM

On the lighter side, if you drive a pickup and drink beer, you won the election. If you drive a Prius and drink wine, you lost.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Rain Dog
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 09:21 AM

I saw this posted elsewhere

Polybius - The Histories Book VI


"When a state has weathered many great perils and subsequently attains to supremacy and uncontested sovereignty, it is evident that under the influence of long established prosperity, life becomes more extravagant and the citizens more fierce in their rivalry regarding office and other objects than they ought to be. As these defects go on increasing, the beginning of the change for the worse will be due to love of office and the disgrace entailed by obscurity, as well as to extravagance and purse-proud display; and for this change the populace will be responsible when on the one hand they think they have a grievance against certain people who have shown themselves grasping, and when, on the other hand, they are puffed up by the flattery of others who aspire to office. For now, stirred to fury and swayed by passion in all their counsels, they will no longer consent to obey or even to be the equals of the ruling caste, but will demand the lion’s share for themselves. When this happens, the state will change its name to the finest sounding of all, freedom and democracy, but will change its nature to the worst thing of all, mob rule."

Polybius (c. 200 – c. 118 BC) 

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 09:24 AM

I drive a pickup and drink beer and my wife drives a Prius (actually it's a Tesla) and drinks wine and we both lost, big time.
I saw a bumper sticker on a Tesla the other day that read something like "Bought it Before I Knew he was Such a Jackass".

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 10:37 AM

The finger pointing right now is going in all directions. Black women blaming White women, White women blaming minorities and men, college educated versus high school or less education, and many other versions of the blame game.

The places we get our news are so diverse and many of them so free of the truth that until there is a conversation about that, it's a cacophony. As long as it benefits the GOP to let big money into politics Citizens United will never be overturned, and after Twitter being sold to Musk there is a huge toxic platform of invective—The New York Times and every other newspaper in the land are not the main source of information for the voters who didn't understand Trump's lies and self-interest in running - to stay out of prison.

There's a lot of work to do to find ways to educate those Trump voters about how the government really works and hopefully a way to reign in the oligarchs. In turn, the Democrats have to pay more attention to the voters who have less education, to all of the jobs in fields and trades that have been overlooked. And to shine a light on the real reasons groceries are expensive and housing hard to come by - investors and corporations. What a lot of them are doing now used to be illegal. Thank Dubya and the Supreme Court for rolling back a lot of the things that kept corporations honest. The court has to be addressed - a binding code of conduct, an Inspector General. And Biden does need to add another justice, though Trump would probably do the same thing just to get even. Right now everyone is probably holding their breaths and trying not to give Trump any ideas.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 10:54 AM

Trump has revealed America, he didn't change it.

The average age of home buyers for our parents was 34.
Today the average age is 54.
Even bad food is more expensive
The middle class has been devoured.
Bleeding them further is murder.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 11:37 AM

> Trump has revealed America, he didn't change it.

Verily. Until today, I didn't know that ....

.... this group of oppositional humans has always existed. It's election deniers in 2024; in 1865, after losing the Civil War, unrepentant Confederates were sent to Washington as senators and representatives.

Congress refused to seat them and drafted part of the 14th Amendment “to perpetuate, as a constitutional imperative, that any who violate their oath to the Constitution are to be barred from public office.”

       --- Rands In Repose, dated 5th November (emphasis in original)

The problem in applying the 14th Amendment now is: Who's left who can bell the cat?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 11:56 AM

Here’s Jonathan Pie talking about the US election in his own inimitable fashion. It’s comedic, of course, but there’s much more than just a hint of truth in there…

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 12:20 PM

MaJoC the Filk sent me a note about a typo - reign vs rein - but I think I'll leave it because think about it. Who wants to reign - it's unintentional wordplay about part of the problem. (If the squiggly red lines didn't show a spelling error syntax goofs often get through.)

A lot of people are trying to figure out where to go next, based upon what happened. Mistakes were made, and while there are a few folks trying to gin up conspiracy theories about the voting machines, that dog won't hunt (it's part of Trump's pack of mongrels, we know how stupid it is.) We have two years to turn the House and Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 01:22 PM

gillymor, I've been telling my Hubby that I want to make up "FEM" stickers to put on Tesla cars i.e. "f*ck Elon Musk", because that's what I say every time I see a Tesla.

DtG, give it a rest please.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Nov 24 - 01:31 PM

You too Helen.

And 100!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 05:26 AM

As Donald Trump won the election, his far-right supremacist supporters sparked a wave of misogynistic abuse

In a tight US election, a gender split emerges as Donald Trump chases the 'bro vote'

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 07:36 AM

What to do:

Your health care is likely to be lost if it is AHC. Get an appointment and demand as thorough a screening as possible. Prices elsewhere will probably rise so document your plan and its usage well. Pre-existing condition restrictions could return so be informed.

Tariffs will make certain items expensive, so stock up where possible.
Walmart, Target, and Costco may lose some price advantages. Some items like cheap electric cars will be unavailable if they come from China.

I don't know the effect on 90% of the economy, but beware of idle gossip; scams may become rampant and grift normalized without consumer protection.

The more you can document now the better off you may be in 4 years due to unforeseen circumstances.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 07:50 AM

btw, ICE agents are to be assisted by the Army according to Trump which is how the Gestapo operated. Trump's plans will be stymied because there is no detailed plan unless Project 2025 holds the details. Just like only a bit of his Wall got built mass deportation may just be for photo op.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 08:29 AM

A :'( is a crying emoji. ;-) is a wink.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 09:30 AM

It's called putting lipstick on a pig, Dave.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 09:35 AM

...and, Helen, Alex says she's gonna drive the thing with a bag on her head.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 09:39 AM

As someone (I can guess who) unilaterally decided to ‘disappear’ my post from this morning, I will repeat it, and I’ll keep repeating it until the offender gets the message and bloody well leaves it alone…

Seen this morning on Farcebook, a post along the lines of… ”Maybe Canada should begin absorbing the US’s Blue states, then they will have health-care. The Red states obviously don’t want it.” ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 10:13 AM

Heed the warning of The Handmaid's Tale: Pay by cash whenever possible, and complain loudly if you can't. Once all money is in bank accounts, cash can be eliminated as a legal medium of exchange, and you're then only one stroke of the legislative pen away from becoming at best a second-class citizen.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 10:59 AM

I bet he does sod all - like last time. He'll be too busy filling his pockets with goodies.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 11:06 AM

I bet he's nicking the lead off the White House roof if you look outside.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 11:12 AM

Go Americans!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 11:14 AM

That's my feeling to, Al. Trouble is all the Trump toadies, like Musk, have wormed their way into his good books for their own agenda. We don't know what that aganda is but you can be sure it will not be philanthropic! At least it will, hopefully, be their last chance.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 11:58 AM

It's not Trump that concerns me, he'll be too busy monitoring cable news to see what they're saying about him and playing golf, it's the neo-facists, White Nationalists and uber capitalist s who are going to be running wild in the West Wing and the new AG who will be dismantling our justice system along with various other extremists. Competency is not required, all he looks for is loyalty and deep pockets.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 05:07 PM

> loyalty and deep pockets

There's a long diatribe there, basically lifted straight from Plato's Republic, starting with democracy being the second-worst method of governing a country, and the search for a Strong Man. Sadly, mankind seems to need to relearn this lesson, the hard way, twice a century or so.

To a lesser extent, the same is true for companies. Boeing is being driven to breaking point by the bean counters in the board room who value share price maintenance over engineering excellence, and indulge in empty-calorie tactics like share buy-back; Intel is discovering that "lobbying dollars offer a better return than engineering dollars" (to quote RISKS-34.48) only gets you so far before you start having to lay off workers. And once the talent's gone, it's *gone*; witness the state of Twitter after Agent X sacked it.*

Spread this across the entire country; add in trade tariffs being passed on to the consumer (Brexit is costing the UK 4--5% a year in GDP), the enormous cost of deporting anybody considered "foreign", and the flight of talent to less extreme countries (which has already started). The 2008 crash will seem like a picnic.

* For some months after the sack, all The Register could get out of Twitter's press e-mail address was a poop-emoji autoreply. I've no idea whether setting that up was the last press officer's last act before turning out the lights, but it was karmically correct.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Nov 24 - 05:50 PM

It used to be illegal to do those stock buy-backs and then money went back into the company. Now it goes to stockholders. That's a huge part of the problem (along with CEO compensation.)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 05:49 AM

2024 HOTTEST YEAR EVER

I am surprised no one has whispered what this means for global WARMING


Imagine if Al Gore was allowed to have all the votes counted and became President.

We have lost over 20 years of climate reconciliation.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 07:38 AM

How could a convicted felon with the speaking skills of a drunk uncle beat a highly educated prosecutor?

The Price of Eggs party beat the woke celebrity party in the game of labels. I don't blame women, Latinos, or others for voting for Trump.

The Democrats could have claimed the high ground of morality, ethics, fairness, and patriotism but they ignored the memory of the high cost of eggs and the shrunken sizes of everything in the grocery store. Taylor Swift, Beyonce, and Oprah didn't outweigh Joe Rogan and the historic price of eggs.

Of course, there are many other reasons, like having no primary and an indignant, recalcitrant elderly Biden unable to see the writing on the wall.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 08:23 AM

Nice synopsis at 07:38 AM, Don.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 09:16 AM

Donuel, by using ones privilege to place oneself above the law?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 09:30 AM

I never heard the Democrats drive home the fact that THEY didn't cause inflation and that the lower price of bread under T**** was due to a better economy under Obama.
Prices rose during COVID and guess who was minding the store then!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 10:09 AM

Privilege (n): private law.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 10:16 AM

Alexander Hamilton was the first to advocate for a central bank in the United States, and his ideas laid the foundation for the Federal Reserve.      
Guess who wants to put the independent Federal Reserve under Trump's control?
Elon Musk ! He says an independent Fed Reserve is unconstitutional.

I'm sure Trump wouldn't mind being able to rob the bank blind.
He could increase the deficit by 9 trillion dollars with tax cuts and his wish list. The Fed couldn't say boo. That's not to say that Trump will. Owning the central bank is still a delicious cherry on top of extreme power. I'm afraid Trump wants to assassinate Hamilton all over again.


PS Have you seen the friendly face of the deportation Czar Tom Homan?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 10:53 AM

For all the reasons people have mentioned here it should be easy to see that once a strongman or King takes control...
getting rid of that system is like trying to put out a blow torch with a squirt gun. Usually the blowtorch has to run out of fuel.

It will take heros of conscience.
be they red or blue.
to apply the brakes
to this ship of State.

It reminds me that if it took a hundred years of climate destruction then it can take thousands of years if not more to recover. Of course a runaway event can turn into millions of years.
Likewise just a few years of a dictator's control can take a nation 40 years to recover. If ever.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 04:52 PM

Trump has already asked the Senate to give up their advise and consent powers for new appointments. Trump wants recess appointments to be the rule that bypasses Senate permission so he can appoint anyone without any possible hearings or criticism.

The Donald also wants new rules to ensure there will be NO MORE FILIBUSTER.

Does anyone else think that deporting 10 million workers will make America go hungry without people to pick the crops? Supply and demand would make a more expensive vegetable. Oh well, Americans could stand a little weight loss.

There is nothing free market about tariffs, but it is too complicated for me to see any advantage for citizens.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 05:05 PM

My only hope now is that he'll fuck things up so badly that it will do in the GOP for a generation or so. It will cause a lot of suffering but may be the only way we reclaim what's left of our democracy. Pretty grim.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 05:30 PM

I've been wondering whether the power-behind-the-throne people, e.g. Project 2025 people, hardline [so-called] Christians, billionaire old white men, etc are very happy that Trump has all of the legal woes because they can hold him to ransom to get what they want. It might explain why he was behaving during the campaign in a relatively civilised manner, compared to his previous behaviour. Susan Wiles could be re-named as the Chief Wrangler.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 05:46 PM

Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) offered his thoughts on Democrats’ losses in this year’s elections in a Sunday thread on the social platform X.

“We are out of touch with the crisis of meaning/purpose fueling MAGA,” Murphy said in the thread. “We refuse to pick big fights. Our tent is too small.”


The Connecticut Senator noted multiple issues he thinks the American left is struggling with when it comes to reaching voters, including having “never fully grappled with the wreckage of fifty years of neoliberalism” and moving “past the way people are feeling (ALONE, impotent, overwhelmed) and straight to uninspiring solutions.”

“We don’t listen enough; we tell people what’s good for them,” Murphy said.

“And when progressives like [Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.)] aggressively go after the elites that hold people down, they are shunned as dangerous populists. Why? Maybe because true economic populism is bad for our high-income base,” he added.

In the wake of the 2024 elections, Democrats from different parts of the party have gone after each other for what they think sunk their chances at the polls, as they lost the Senate, the presidency and possibly the House. Those further to the left have said Democrats didn’t go far enough in their direction to excite the party’s base, while centrists have said the party went too far left and frightened moderate voters.

“Real economic populism should be our tentpole,” Murphy said on X. “But here’s the thing – then you need to let people into the tent who aren’t 100% on board with us on every social and cultural issue, or issues like guns or climate.”

But...
WHEN RUNNING FOR A SEAT IN CONGRESS COSTS MILLIONS OF DOLLARS...
you have to cater to the million or billionaires. Sorry workers.

PS Trump wants Kash Patel as the new director of the CIA.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 05:59 PM

Everything is in motion right now, speculating, suggestions to Trump, the awful people he will put in his cabinet.

Meanwhile some of the pundits have pointed out that there are many people who are somewhat case-hardened to his crap because they live in states with all of the nonsense is already going on, like Texas. Hmmm.

I think trying to read anything into what is going on right now is worse than tea leaves. We're going to have to see what happens.

There was a suggestion this morning that Biden can do one thing to mess up Trump's desire to see the federal death penalty put to use - Trump went on a binge of executions in the last six months of his first term. Biden can commute 44 sentences and put them on life sentences and can tell the Terre Haute folks to dismantle the execution chamber now. That would be a good thing. He has already moved most federal cases to non-death-penalty tracks.

Never mind the million people who died during COVID in the US; many of them would have been spared if he'd had half a brain and let the CDC do their job.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 06:45 PM

What is not tea leaves is that the ACLU stands between the worst promises of Donald Trump, and our basic human freedoms and pursuit of happiness. The ACLU needs our monetary support more than billionaires need a tax cut.

Yes, many of the crazy appointees are known to not last long in Trump's employ. Yes, the devil is in the details of the worst plans and those details are not known to many people. Will summary execution of deported immigrants who sneak back in really be carried out as promised? If it happens who will report it?
It's imprudent to not ask questions.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Nov 24 - 07:38 PM

You're right about the ACLU. I've supported them for years with yearly donations, and last week I changed over to monthly donations.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 12 Nov 24 - 07:14 AM

Biden can commute 44 sentences and put them on life sentences and can tell the Terre Haute folks to dismantle the execution chamber now. That would be a good thing. He has already moved most federal cases to non-death-penalty tracks.

Yes.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 24 - 10:30 AM

If you have learned much about narcissists you probably know they have overwhelming urges to 'get even' by ongoing retribution. Sometimes they go overboard.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: keberoxu
Date: 12 Nov 24 - 01:26 PM

Another congressional race has been decided, in Arizona.
In a tight race, Democrat Ruben Gallego defeated
the notorious Kari Lake (Republican).

It will take a while to sort out Maine, though.
Today Maine starts to look at second-ranked candidate choices on the ballots.
The race between the Democrat and Republican candidates is so tight
that neither one had a 50% majority after counting
the first-choice voting.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Nov 24 - 06:43 PM

There is a second reason why Democrats lost. It is because the left campus fringe became Anti-free speech with their cancel disinvitation culture, safe space, trigger warning, microaggression, and Antifa riots by fascist means.
Yep the right might ban books and history but their cult leader can say anything he wants. The right became the free speech party. The Dems sounded like snowflakes.
The right might not like totalitarianism as much as they thought but remember they like their own speech, they just don't like your speech.

I had a constant critic that sometimes had a well reasoned argument but often devolved to simple name calling. On numerous occasions, I notified moderators to NOT BAN HIS FREE SPEECH. Alas it did not come to pass.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 01:06 AM

Interesting view of the US election by the Guardian's chief leader writer, Randeep Ramesh. Quotes:

While the methods are shared, the goals diverge. The US became the world’s top oil and gas producer in the last decade. Biden sought to cultivate a green economy, while Trump promoted fossil fuels so aggressively that it bordered on self-parody.

**

In 2022, the poorest 20% of Americans spent nearly a third of their income on food, while the wealthiest fifth spent just 8%. Biden avoided emergency price controls, unlike Richard Nixon who implemented them in 1971 – and won a landslide reelection the following year.

**

Whether Trump can mobilise popular discontent over social and economic inequalities without alienating the oligarchs who support him remains an open question… Trump’s aim isn’t to lift all boats, but rather to lift enough to convince voters to tolerate the corruption, consumer scams and environmental degradation that enrich a plutocratic class. This strategy, boosted by a pliant mediasphere, enables him to present a party of private power as the voice of the ordinary voter.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 02:24 AM

The paragraph in that article prior to your last quote is worth repeating…

”The president-elect has abandoned the neoliberal tradition of keeping markets shielded from direct political influence, openly using his power to favour allies and enrich elites. While centrist Democrats support corporate interests by blocking progressive reforms, Trump aligns directly with billionaires, promoting a culture where justice serves the wealthy, prejudice is trivialised and power diminishes equality. This trickle-down bigotry will ultimately create a system where servility to power and social division become normalised, eroding fairness for everyone.”

How ordinary Americans could be so deluded by The Trump Gang into voting directly against their own best interests is totally beyond my comprehension.

It’s 1930s Germany, all over again.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 06:16 AM

all of which is true BWM. However our own record in voting for loonies is not exactly blameless. There was Thatcher who finished off 28% of manufacturing in one year. Then there was Cameron who walked out because the Brexit vote upset him. And I'm not over the moon with Keir Starmer.
I think the trouble resides in the fact that we have a media who misinform us. Trump's victory and Starmers have in common the fact that the overwhelming nature of thevictories seemed to creep up on them by surprise.
This to me, argues that they don't really know whats going at ground level.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 08:06 AM

Al, this thread is about the US Election. If you want to discuss UK political issues, I think it would probably be better from the Mods’ POV to do it on the ‘Brexit and UK Politics’ thread.’

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 10:48 AM

Stay that hand, BWM: the UK's woes (eg the self-harm of Brexit causing a provable 4% hit to the economy) ahould be an Awful Warning for the US. Whether they'll learn the lesson in time is another matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 11:20 AM

Good point, MaJoC, but I’ve given my answer to Big Al’s above post in the ‘Brexit & UK Politics’ thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 12:57 PM

We understand there has been lunacy on both sides of the pond, but we don't need to go into depth here. It also isn't a thread for philosophy.

Appointments are landing like pasta on the wall, Trump seems to be putting every stupid idea out there to see what sticks. Meanwhile the GOP senators seem to have totally ignored Trump's wishes and have elected John Thune as their majority leader, someone who didn't endorse Trump in this election. Interesting. (It was a secret vote.) The talking head on MSNBC right now is talking about him - said "he's always been a decent guy." That's more than was ever said about McConnell.

Biden hosted Trump at the White House - I saw photos and a brief glimpse of them seated to talk - keeping Trump in line is going to be difficult (he has already been giving directives to the parties - he didn't get what he wanted on Majority Leader.) The thing about his wanting to do everything his way, he told the senate he wants them to recess so he can make recess appointments for all of his cabinet folks - Thune won't do it. His various demands are intended to reduce the power of the House and Senate - so they probably won't go along.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Nov 24 - 07:08 PM

Trump wants the DOJ to be his personal KGB police to round up his critics, but Matt Gaetz does not have that kind of discipline, and he is unlikely to be ratified.

How is a Fox News host able to run the entire DOD?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 11:01 AM

My thought. Tiny protest. Only going to restaurants run by and/or owned by immigrants.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Neil D
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 11:47 AM

Deporting undocumented workers (by the way, anyone who turns the word illegal into a proper noun is inherently racist) in the numbers Trump claims would cost us billions and tank the economy. Most Americans have no idea how much our economy relies on these workers. Anthony Bordain said they were the best kept secret of high cuisine and agriculture and manufacturing are also reliant. I wrote something during the first Trump administration and with the spectre of an even more draconian border policy looming in our near future, I'd like to repeat it.
A Christian monk named Thomas Merton said " Into this world, this demented inn
in which there is absolutely no room for him at all,
Christ comes uninvited.

But because he cannot be at home in it,
because he is out of place in it,
and yet he must be in it,
His place is with the others for whom
there is no room.

His place is with those who do not belong,
who are rejected by power, because
they are regarded as weak,
those who are discredited,
who are denied status of persons,
who are tortured, bombed and exterminated.

With those for whom there is no room,
Christ is present in this world.

Even though he wrote this 60 years ago he must have been prescient for I feel like he was describing the situation today at our southern border, where desparate people have fled a dystopia mostly of our making (if you would like a list of US military interventions in Central America going all the way back to the Monroe Doctrine it would require another thread. Interventions that had nothing to do with exporting democracy, as if we had any to spare). People who against all odds have made it hundreds of miles to that Golden door, only to have it slammed in their face by an orange -tinted imbecile who whines "There's no more room. We're all filled up." And I would pray that Brother Melton was right, that Christ is indeed present with those people for whom there is no room. I hope he can prepare them a better place in the next world for I fear they will have no compassion, no comfort, no justice in this one. Most Americans claim to be good Christians, including the ones who cheer on the government forces that tear children from their mothers' arms and throw them in cages to sleep on cold stone floors with very little hygene and medical treatment as they sicken and even die in custody. When the Bible says suffer the little children, that does not mean to make the children suffer.
Have these so-called Christians even read their Bibles. How did they miss this passage in Matthew 25: For I was hungry, and you didn’t feed me. I was thirsty, and you didn’t give me a drink. I was a stranger, and you didn’t invite me into your home. I was naked, and you didn’t give me clothing. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t visit me.’

“Then they will reply, ‘Lord, when did we ever see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and not help you?’

“And he will answer, ‘I tell you the truth, when you refused to help the least of these my brothers and sisters, you were refusing to help me.’

“And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous will go into eternal life.”
Did they not read that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get into heaven.
So when you pass tax cuts for the wealthy at the expense of the poor, the sick, the elderly, children, then you have not only forsaken those people, you have also betrayed your God. Would you truly be Christlike? Then drive the moneylenders from the temples of our democracy.
For there have always been two kinds of Christians. In the third century a churchman named Pelegias taught that the church was obligated to care for those downtrodden in our society. He was excommunicated by the Pope. In the 15th century a teenage girl was inspired by God to lead her nations army against a foreign invader. Christian priests burned her alive. In the 16th century Protestants were invited to Paris for a council that would enumerate their rights in a Catholic State. Instead they were attacked in the night by Catholic knights and slaughtered in the tens of thousands, all on St Bartholomew's Day. In my own time an ordained clergyman chose as his ministry nurturing children to cherish themselves and each other. Many of you spent hours of childhood in his neighborhood. At his funeral Christian people showed up with signs saying Queers Will Burn and God Hates Faggots. When Fred Rogers' son went out to them and asked why they were protesting at his father's funeral he was told that since his father did not teach the children to despise homosexuals he was as bad as one himself. Imagine that. Christians condemning a man for not teaching kids to hate.
So if you're a Christian are you like Pelegias or the Pope. Like Jeanne d'Arc or the priests who burned her. Like the French Huguenots or the murderous Catholic knights. Like Mr. Rogers or the Westboro Baptists.
So when You tell me you are a Christian my question to you, the question you must ask yourself is what kind of Christian are you? The kind that loves or the kind that hates.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 12:25 PM

Well said, Neil D!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 04:18 PM

Christian Nationalism inserts its values into the scripture,
PASTORS ARE ADVISED TO CONSULT German theologian Kitell who justified the holocaust genocide with scripture. About half the Christians in America are Nationalists who believe Christ is a tough guy who wants his followers to take over by force and that Trump is the chosen one protected by the lion of God, Jesus CHRIST.

Patriotism is gratitude to the nation but nationalism sees pluralism as a weakness and multiculturalism as evil.

Republicans know donations are dependent on keeping fear and hate foremost in the minds of voters. Christians are educated that their Saints faced great persecution in order to be Christians so they are inclined to believe fear, hate, and persecution. Now that the entire government is white nationalism, who and what is left to hate and fear?
Of course it is the remaining demon Democrats, intellectuals, and leftists.

Of course Neil is correct but the destiny of American white Nationalism is far more dangerous than mere deportations.
It is a war between good and evil, as perceived by each side.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 05:12 PM

So the turnip has appointed an anti-vaxer as health supremo. Roll on the next pandemic, then we will see the folly of this.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 07:27 PM

Every flake he can think of is going into that rickety cabinet of his.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Nov 24 - 07:47 PM

We don't need no education DEPARTMENT
We don't need no DAMN EXPERTS
No more dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teacher, leave them kids alone
Hey! Teacher! Leave them kids alone!
All in all, they're just more sick that's been mauled
All in all, they're just more sick that's been mauled

We don't need no CRT
W? don't need no LEFT AGENDA
No more dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers, l?ave them kids alone
Professor! Leave those kids alone
All in all, Trump's will is all you need at all
All in all, you're just another brick in the wall

You don't need no damn vaccines
You don't need the CDC
You don't need no arms around you
And you don't need medicine at all
I have seen the writing on the wall
Don't think you need any government
No, don't think you'll need anything but Trump

[Chorus]
All in all, you're just another brick in the wall
All in all, you were all just bricks in the wall

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 01:14 AM

…and the US is slowly transformed into Gilead.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 04:06 AM

Will this mean mass unemployment for doctors?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 04:46 AM

I've been wondering, there appear to be so many thing the orange man didn't think of -

adding taxes to imports = his supporters paying more for the goods they want/need! (oops)

kicking out 'illegals' = no one to do all that low paid work (another ooops)

how does he force countries to take 'them' back & who gathers 'them' up, confines 'them' & takes 'them' back to their home country - KKK? Proud Boys?

does the 60% get added to stuff US companies order from Chinese companies? Lots of things here are Made in China, I assume it might be the same in other countries

enquiring minds want to know

sandra

sometime back when trump was talking about someone else changing their race, a letter to the editor said he was once white & now is orange!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 06:07 AM

I am sure that the turnip is misogynistic enough to believe that American Men will just send 'their' women out to do the low paid work that they do not want to do themselves - of course making time to keep the houses clean and put dinners on their tables and other acts of servitude the see fit; all of which seems to be normalised in the turnips narrative and rhetoric. Enjoy your misogynistic patriarchy.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 06:29 AM

I get a distinct impression that the Orange Turnip thinks that, if he imposes a 60% tariff on imports from China, the Chinese will be the ones who have to pay.

I’d say he’s a half-wit, but I don’t think he’s that smart.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 06:51 AM

I bought eggs last week for under $2.50 a dozen.

Benjamin Franklin said we have a Republic if we can keep it.
We had a pretty good run with some close calls but now it's done.
With a moratorium on all infectious disease research.
The four horsemen are running hard and will be put away wet.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 07:10 AM

So how much will domestic goods go up by if their is going to be a 60% surcharge on the cost of supply chain components?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 07:51 AM

I'm somehow envisaging an Underground Railway of secret vaccinators, and investigations run by a vastly expanded FBI (apply for a transfer quick if you're a civil servant) hunting them and tracking them by the areas where children aren't dying of tubercular meningitis, polio and measles-pneumonia.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 15 Nov 24 - 10:03 PM

I just heard this song playing in my Hubby's car and the timing seemed appropriate. (True confession: I'm not a fan of Leonard Cohen and I find it difficult deciphering song lyrics when I hear them. I have to read them rather than listen to them.)

Democracy - a song by Leonard Cohen

When I heard him sing the line "Democracy is coming to the U.S.A" I said, "no it isn't".

But reading the lyrics I can see how relevant the song is at present, even though it was written 30 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 12:53 AM

We began as a racist sexist democracy and are currently a kakistocracy
which is government by the worst.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 03:50 AM

”We began as a racist sexist democracy and are currently a kakistocracy
which is government by the worst.”

Not until 1/20/25.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 04:17 AM

The Coming Era of the Kakistokrats.

One thing is good news, though; among RFK's daffy ideas is one sensible thought - the fact that Americans have learned to eat terribly badly, and Big Food is doing nothing good but only producing Big People.

If he can develop this into cooking-from-scratch nutritious meals produced by students in every school - and every school to have a good canteen and kitchen, of course, this would be good.

If he can develop his thoughts on this further to get all students riding bicycles or walking to schools, and to reduce the use of cars (with its accompanying indebtedness) in towns and cities, America would become a hell of a lot healthier.

If he can also influence whoever is in charge of transport to change American trains so that there are affordable, efficient train services from city to city across the country, there could be the start of real hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 11:08 AM

Right now with the outrageous appointments Trump is testing the House and Senate to see what he can get away with.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 06:44 PM

Each candidate is worse than the prior one which distracts how bad they are. The strategy is Bannon's destruction of the administrative state. Replace with a despot and rid themselves of any inconvenient laws.

Even a blind squirrel finds a nut or two. If Trump lowers credit card interest to 10%, that would be good. If RFK can reduce pesticides in food, that would be good as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Nov 24 - 09:36 PM

But at what cost? That's the problem.

Those of us who worry about helping others have been gutted - those who only wanted the price of gas or groceries to change are probably in for a surprise. Want to stay healthy? Go back to wearing masks because if Kennedy gets in the continuation of new COVID and Flu vaccines may be in limbo for a while.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 01:19 AM

"I can summarise American politics in one sentence. Republicans have no principles, Democrats have no spine" says Allan Lichtman, a forecaster who got it wrong, after condemning Democrats for their blame game.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 08:39 AM

> Right now with the outrageous appointments Trump
> is testing the House and Senate to see what he can
> get away with.

As it happens, after hearing about the latest horror appointment, I remarked to Herself this morning: "He's playing push-the-parent."

> kakistocracy

Bingo.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 09:33 AM

”> kakistocracy”

Ha! I had to look that up to find out what it means. Defines The New Gilead perfectly.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 09:54 AM

I first learned that term during the last Trump administration. What goes around comes around.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 03:23 PM

.... as opposed to "khakistrocracy", which is rule by army officers.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 03:39 PM

Oooo. Good comeback, MaJoC.

For those who are abroad in particular, getting a good left and right view of things is sometimes a challenge. There is a radio show from Los Angeles called KCRW's Left, Right & Center that does hour-long deep dives on subjects. This week (the Nov. 15, 2024 program) the topic is the Trump nominations and what they might mean (and how people can choose to view them). Here is the description of the content this week:

A cabinet full of characters
President-elect Donald Trump announced a handful of buzzworthy cabinet appointments over the past few days. Trump has already announced his picks for the secretaries of State, Homeland Security and Defense. Those picks - Marco Rubio, Kristi Noem and Pete Hegseth, respectively - were controversial enough before Trump announced his choice of Florida senator Matt Gaetz for Attorney General. Gaetz's selection has drawn scrutiny from both sides of the aisle. Was the media meltdown over Gaetz what Trump wanted all along? How will Trump's picks affect his executive governing? Another contentious appointment this week was Trump's announcement of former ICE director Tom Homan as "border czar." Homan has outlined in interviews a plan for mass deportations of migrant families, including people born in the United States. Trump's stance on immigration and border security were major drivers in his election victory. Many in the GOP see voters election of Trump as a mandate on immigration and support for his mass deportation proposal. But after voters in many states supported Trump for President and voted down Democrats on the ballot, is that true? Did voters really want Trump's policies, or just his leadership? Kamala Harris's presidential defeat inspired plenty of introspection from the Democratic Party. Critics say the Democrats relied too heavily on identity politics and not enough on policy for the win. What role did sexism play in Harris's loss? Is it as simple as the United States not being ready for a woman president?

You can listen from the site or get it via Spotify and other Podcast sites. If you can't connect directly to the link use a VPN to get here from wherever you are.

I've heard about half of the program (started in the car, finishing listening in the house) but will go back and listen from the start. I think will help - you might need a BINGO card to keep track of some of the players, but it's worthwhile to understand where we are today with Trump trying to alarm people.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 05:19 PM

Kakistocracy comes from ancient Greece. They must have encountered this problem a time or two to have a word for it.

During election week the top Google search was 'did Biden drop out?'

Stilly, Kamala's turnout among women was low, and even lower among men. I believe she did not do as well as Hillary. shrug

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Nov 24 - 06:23 PM

Listen to the podcast I linked to, Don. They discuss that.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 08:49 AM

For those who are abroad in particular, getting a good left and right view of things is sometimes a challenge,
quote stilly river sage
No, it is not a challenge, it is easier than you think

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 09:04 AM

And cacastocracy is rule by James II of England.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 10:41 AM

> What goes around

*Urgh*: in this context, that made me think of a lavatory being flushed ....

> comes around

.... now it's running backwards.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 12:22 PM

Perhaps I should have qualified it as one that we over here agree with.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 18 Nov 24 - 02:42 PM

A page out of the 3rd Reich is about banning labor unions.
The President-elect has begun the process by stabbing the heart of organized labor in the US. If she wants to Stilly could explain the process or you could Google it yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 02:46 AM

Labour unions? What's this?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 02:55 AM

I am intrigued, The democrats have lost the election, but Biden has just pushed through an aggressive foreign policy with RUSSIA,after his party has been voted out, how Democratic is that, to put the rest of the world at risk of a world war.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 07:20 AM

Biden is still President until January. Do you think all presidential work should have a 2 month hiatus?

To see what Trump did after losing (although not according to him) the presidential election in 2020 there is a list Here

Post election actions start with item 135 in the list.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 02:17 PM

Trump actually said that the wages of US workers are “too high”. He insulted the nation’s workers by insisting their pay is too high because from Trump’s billionaire, pro-business viewpoint, that makes it too hard for US companies to compete. Trump said that workers’ pay was too high even though corporate profits and the stock market were booming at the time.

Trump suggested that automakers in the midwest move some operations to the south so that they could reduce their workers’ wages – the last thing that workers want. “You can go to different parts of the United States.” Trump said that after the auto industry in the midwest “loses a couple of plants – all of sudden you’ll make good deals [to lower workers’ wages] in your own area”.

Trump praised the idea of firing workers who are on strike, even though that is illegal under federal law. In a conversation with his billionaire campaign supporter Elon Musk, Trump applauded the idea of corporations telling their striking workers: “You’re all gone.” “You’re the greatest cutter,” Trump told Musk. “I look at what you do. You walk in and say: ‘You want to quit?’ I won’t mention the name of the company, but they go on strike and you say: ‘That’s OK. You’re all gone.’”

Trump tried to portray himself as a regular worker by donning an apron for a photo op at a McDonald’s in Pennsylvania, but the fact is, Trump has never been a worker and has always been an owner. As an owner, he has always had management’s interest at heart, particularly when it comes to workers. If Trump really wanted to be a worker, rather than an owner, he certainly could have been. Trump, who always wanted to be a billionaire and be in glitzy headlines, insults workers’ intelligence when says he always wanted to be a McDonald’s worker. “I’ve always wanted to work at McDonald’s, but I never did.”

Trump insulted the nation’s factory workers by saying their jobs are such a cinch that children can do them. By saying that, he showed he has very little understanding of blue-collar jobs and how hard, exhausting and sometimes dangerous they are. In a recent speech to the Economic Club of Chicago, Trump talked about auto assembly plant jobs as if they’re as simple as a child assembling Lego. “They [workers] don’t build cars. They take’em out of a box, and they assemble’em. We could have our child do it.”

Trump said he hates overtime pay. In a speech last month in Pennsylvania, he revealed how stingy he is toward workers by saying he tried to minimize what he paid his workers by always making sure he avoided paying time-and-a-half overtime pay. “I hated to give overtime. I hated it. I shouldn’t say this, but I’d get other people in. I wouldn’t pay. I hated it.”

To win support from workers, Trump, after driving past several closed factories and steel mills in Ohio, made a marvelous promise. He sounded like the pied piper when he told thousands of workers in Youngstown that all of Ohio’s lost factory jobs would be coming back with him as president. Trump even told Ohio workers not to move, promising them that the jobs would come back. But the truth is that hardly any of those factory jobs came back. Indeed, General Motors closed its giant assembly plant in nearby Lordstown not long after Trump gave his Youngstown speech. “Those jobs have left Ohio. They’re all coming back. They’re all coming back. “Don’t move. Don’t sell your house.”

Shawn Fain, the president of the United Auto Workers (UAW), is one of the country’s most successful and respected union leaders. Fain led a major strike last fall that won 25% raises from GM, Ford and Stellantis/Chrysler and the restoration of cost-of-living adjustments, plus 68% raises for new workers. Despite Fain’s huge successes, Trump said at the Republican convention that Fain should be “fired immediately”. Why in the world was a presidential candidate saying that such a respected, inspiring union leader should be fired? That’s improper interference in union affairs, and what Trump was calling for would seriously hurt the UAW’s huge momentum and successes. “The leader of the United Auto Workers should be fired immediately.”

Trump lied to the country’s workers and insulted their intelligence when he said he always paid contractors and workers on time and what they’re supposed to be paid. Before he became president, he was notorious for paying construction contractors and workers late and for refusing to pay them the amount he had promised to pay; sometimes he would pay tens of thousands of dollars less than he was contracted to pay. Hundreds of contractors and workers had sued Trump after he failed to pay them or after he insisted on paying them far less than what the contract called for. “We pay everybody what they’re supposed to be paid, and we pay everybody on time.”

Trump actually told union members that they shouldn’t pay their union dues. By saying this, Trump was essentially seeking to sabotage the country’s labor unions. If workers refuse to pay their union dues, that would greatly weaken unions and their ability to fight for higher wages, better benefits, improved working conditions. Profit-maximizing corporations would love it if workers stopped paying their union dues and that undermined unions’ ability to battle for better things for workers. “I’m telling you, you shouldn’t pay those dues.”

Steven Greenhouse is a journalist and author, focusing on labour and the workplace
https://www.afge.org/article/the-secret-white-house-memo-inside-trumps-plan-to-destroy-unions/
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/23/trump-anti-worker-union-statements

---

You linked to AFGE but actually copy/pasted from the Guardian. In future use a small amount of the article and post the link with the article. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 04:44 PM

Thompson, what Donuel may have hinted at regarding labor unions
concerns the National Labor Relations Board, or NLRB.
This entity was affected by the first Trump administration,
apparently not in a good way for union workers.
Then there is the presence of Elon Musk,
who is ... not pro-union.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 07:44 PM

The TV doctor Mehmet Oz appears to be headed to the cabinet. No surprise there - anyone who Trump has seen on TV is a candidate for his insider group. He's pushed as much or more crackpot stuff as Kennedy.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 11:16 PM

Trump's new best buddy Musk is in cahoots with Putin. How can we tell?

An undersea communications cable between Lithuania and Sweden has been damaged in the Baltic Sea, public broadcaster LRT reported on Nov. 18.

Andrius Šemeškevicius, the chief technology officer of Lithuanian telecommunications company Telia, stated the cable was cut on Nov. 17, around 10 a.m.

“The systems immediately reported that we lost the connection,” LRT quoted Šemeškevicius.

“Further investigation determined that it was damaged.”

The damaged cable is one of the three that connect Lithuania to the internet. While overall data traffic throughput capacity has been reduced, connectivity for Lithuanian users remains stable, he added.

He also told CNN that the disruptions were likely caused by physical damage to the cable itself.

“We can confirm that internet traffic disruptions were not caused by equipment failure but by physical damage to the fiber-optic cable,” Šemeškevicius stated."

It's handy that Musk has a starlink satellite service he can sell to those folks whose cables are damaged. Does Trump care? Probably not. Does he know what Musk is up to? Who can say. But letting Musk tamper with the US Government operations doesn't bode well for anyone except Musk. If photos could post here I'd put up an image of the fox guarding the hen house.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 19 Nov 24 - 11:30 PM

What a sad mess.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 12:58 AM

Just saw a photo of the lads on the plane eating McD's. Does this mean that RHK has been chosen to be the boy that everyone bullies and laughs at?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 02:30 AM

Nigel, since when has Trump been an arbiter of what is morally right. The democrats were defeated overwhelmingly, the voters rejected them and their policies, in my opinion that means they no longer have a mandate to make important decisions, the same would apply if trump had been in power and lost the election.
A sad reflection of the morality of USA Politicians, Biden was funded billions by armament manufacturers so he had to do their bidding , never mind the voters who no longer gave him a mandate,so much for democracy

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 02:45 AM

Nigel is absolutely right - although the election was in November, the Term of Office begins on 6th January. Until then, Biden is the POTUS, just as Trump continued to be the POTUS from the election on 3rd November 2019 until Biden’s Term began on 20th January, 2020.

Nothing difficult to understand there.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 07:51 AM

you appear NOT to understand my point, about what is morally right and representing voters not corporations,the voters rejected the DEMOCRATS AND THEIR POLICIES, Nothing difficult to understand there

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 08:37 AM

There’s no need to SHOUT. Shouting is for rude, aggressive people, and does you no credit whatsoever. If you feel the need to emphasise a point, try underlining, emboldening, Or italicising the words.

And you appear not to understand Nigel’s point and mine - that Biden is, in every respect, the POTUS until Trump’s inauguration on 20th January, and it is both his right and responsibility carry out his Presidential duties until that date, making whatever decisions he feels right and necessary.

Did you read the list Nigel linked to, of Presidential actions taken by Trump during his interregnum period? If not, you should, it might open your eyes a little.

I recommend that you educate yourself by reading this piece from The Economic Times.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 11:04 AM

Sandman:
Nigel, since when has Trump been an arbiter of what is morally right.

That is something I never claimed.
In school many decades ago, we were taught 'comprehension' which meant reading something, and understanding its meaning. It did not include shading what you read depending upon your own pre-conceptions!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 12:56 PM

Democrats weren't defeated overwhelmingly. The numbers are coming in - it's the electoral college count that matters (still, for now anyway, if we can't get rid of it.) Trump’s win has been described as resounding. It was closer than you think
The vice president improved on Biden’s margins in some swing states, but Trump swept them all

Despite the popular vote, Harris could have won the 2024 — or at least made it significantly closer — if she had just maintained Biden’s figures in a few key states such as Pennsylvania and Michigan.

This year, Harris lost to Trump by only 780,000 votes in the swing states, compared to 3.2 million nationally under current vote counts. So it would have taken the VP flipping just under one million votes into those areas to be the president-elect today.

It's that win the popular vote but lose the election thing - the electoral college put Trump in the last time. It would have been ironic if it had put Harris in this time.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 01:18 PM

780 thousand is a fair majority.
He won.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 05:33 PM

SAD MESS? Dr. Phil is probably suffering from clinical depression over the cabinet appointment of Dr Snake Oil OZ.
After all, Oz had more daytime Emmys than Phil.

Telecommuting is to be banned. Zoom meetings have been SOP since the pandemic.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 05:45 PM

Big Al, it is only a win if the electoral college says so - and if that particular batch of voters had gone to Kamala even if she didn't have the popular vote he would have lost.

Also he didn't have 50% of the vote (as the numbers continue to be firmed up) so his claim of a "mandate" is nonsense. He's going to fuss about that.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 20 Nov 24 - 06:10 PM

I find it a bit odd that Dr Oz is so whacky as a potential politician. When I was teaching at adult education colleges I had different classes at different times and places and I happened to be able to watch his daytime show for about a year. I usually found him and the topics covered fairly sensible and factually accurate, as far as I could tell. He was able to relate to the mostly female studio audience and guests on the show without negative biases - again, as far as I could see.

I was very surprised to learn of his political aspirations.

Life is full of surprises, in this day and age.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 05:04 AM

SRS:
This year, Harris lost to Trump by only 780,000 votes in the swing states, compared to 3.2 million nationally under current vote counts. So it would have taken the VP flipping just under one million votes into those areas to be the president-elect today.

To overturn a margin of 780,000 votes doesn't need one million 'flips'. It's less than half that figure.
Each vote 'flipped' would reduce Trump's votes by 1, and increase Harris's by 1. so 390,001 'flips' would do the trick. (adjust to allow for weird voting systems)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 05:21 AM

flippin' heck!

Look! You've got to face facts. Many , too many people have voted for this Trump plonker.

Something has gone wrong with your educational system. Something has gone wrong. Perhaps several things.

We feel sorry for you, but its only you that can sort this out. We have our own problems.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:40 AM

Speaking of education, McMahon of Worldwide Wrestling is the new Department of Education director.

Oklahoma will be purchasing Trump bibles for their students.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:47 AM

”Oklahoma will be purchasing Trump bibles for their students”

If that’s true, then they clearly don’t ‘get’ irony in Oklahoma. It’s obviously lost on them that Trump is the personification of The Seven Deadly Sins - envy, gluttony, avarice, lust, pride, sloth, and wrath.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:56 AM

God is not going to sort this mess out. America has to do it for itself.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 08:13 AM

We're definitely transitioning into an Idiocracy.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 11:04 AM

Big Al, YOU keep bringing it up. I just described the numbers game that gets played here. Dick, stop sending PMs.

We know what happened, but the difference in votes is about 0.05% that would have turned the election. If half of one percent of all of those voters were in those swing states, Harris would have won even without the popular vote (it's how Trump won the first time). It's a screwed up system based upon colonial Southern landowners in slave-holding states. It means Harris connected with a lot of people, she wasn't out of touch, but they didn't figure out how to get past the outright lies told by the Trump campaign to working people who didn't know that their news sources are like FOX as Trump parrots or like 'influencers' on disconnected social media. And don't doubt that Russia influenced a lot of those disconnected folks.

The party chairs in each state will sum up the results in their states and the party will choose a new leader and maybe in two years the Democratic opposition will break through that news/sound barrier.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 01:19 PM

Here's something to cheer about:

Donald Trump's choice for US attorney-general, Matt Gaetz, withdraws, from consideration

"Donald Trump's controversial pick for US attorney-general, Matt Gaetz, says he has decided to withdraw his name from consideration.

"The US Congress's House Ethics Committee had been considering releasing a report into allegations Mr Gaetz had engaged in sexual misconduct.

Mr Gaetz denies the allegations, which include that he had sex with a 17-year-old girl."

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 01:32 PM

Democrats consider themselves the adults in the room, not falling for conspiracy theories and say the elections are sound. Then articles like this one come along: Cyber-Security Experts Warn Election Was Hacked
'Musk is guilty as fuck'

Cyber-security experts across America are raising the alarm of wide-scale election fraud securing Trump’s victory — and the data is compelling.

Two open letters penned by computer scientists and hacking experts have detailed how the USA’s election software was compromised and the relatively simple hack which could have then been used to fix the results in the seven swing states. They are calling for an immediate hand recount in key precincts which, they say, should swiftly show that a number of these ballots never existed.

There are already numerous articles online stating that this is a left wing conspiracy, and Elon Musk himself has warned that those raising concerns about the “hoax” will face “the hammer of justice”. However, the articles debunking these concerns have only focused on the claim that Musk used his internet service Starlink to steal the election. As detailed below, this is not what the cyber security experts are warning of — although Starlink may have played a role.

The Data

The key data raising concerns that a hack may have been deployed is the number of bullet ballots which exist for Trump in swing states. Bullet ballots are when voters vote for one candidate—in this case the President—and don’t fill out the rest of the ballot. Every year, in every state—including in the past two elections Trump ran in—the percentage of bullet ballots is around 1%. This trend has stayed consistent in the 43 non-swing states in the 2024 election. However, the percentage of bullet ballots is not just anomalous in swing states for Trump this year—it is off the charts.

According to one of the open letters, in Arizona, Trump’s percentage of bullet ballots totaled 7.2%. In Nevada, 5.5%. In comparison, bullet ballots for Trump in Oregon, Utah and Idaho—the three states which border Arizona and Nevada, with equally fervent Trump voters—count for less than 0.05% in each state.

The same pattern continues across the other swing states, with an astonishing 11% of votes for Trump in North Carolina being bullet ballots.

Follow the link for the rest of the article. The part that makes this seem most creepy and yet most plausible is the lottery that Musk ran - the description of the information needed to enter that he could then manipulate. In that instance. (I'm not there yet as far as what happened, but the swing states need more examination for this as one of many reasons.)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 01:32 PM

There's a long litany of sleaze on Gaetz, without his connections and influential father he'd be doing time right now so he does seem like a logical pick for a Trump administration AG as having sexual predation on your resume appears to be a plus.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 02:34 PM

The funny part about Gaetz as well is that he resigned from his role as a Congressman in Florida just before Trumpty-Dumpty announced that he was putting Gaetz forward as the AG nominee. Damn & double-damn, Mr Gaetz! LOL

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 02:38 PM

Yesterday a news article on National Public Radio more than suggested two significant undersea data cables were deliberately cut, the apparent culprit being a Chinese vessel. Here is
the Newsweek version but it is in several European online pubs.

Curious to me why it would be so obvious, but we already know we live in strange times. Suggests to me another book for the New Era Club.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 03:34 PM

Gaetz has pulled out of contention for AG. Now it's time to worry about the next submission.

I learned long ago that whenever you feel relieved that some sob has left the stage, there's room for worse.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 03:52 PM

Well, robomatic, one of our balanced political commentators on Oz TV's Planet America said that Gaetz could have been proposed as a "stalking horse" so that the next person nominated gets in with less fuss and less scrutiny.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:17 PM

So WHO could he be a stalking horse for . . . Kanye West?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 21 Nov 24 - 06:24 PM

Hmm! They mentioned someone else but the name escapes me. I can look it up. Maybe Mike Lee?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 05:56 AM

Bondi. She was Donald's defense lawyer.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 09:33 AM

Gaetz methinks wasn't a stalking horse. His was a sacrificial appointment (he may or may not have been instructed to fall on his sword at the appropriate moment), to distract from the previous appointments' unsuitability for their respective posts. As I said above: "Push The Parent".

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 09:49 AM

I think Gaetz was exactly the kind of toady Trump wanted at DOJ. A true believer who would undertake all manner of unethical and possibly criminal actions against the nation that he's envisioned (including quashing all the federal investigations against him) without question.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 10:15 AM

Newsmax is to the extreme right of Fox News.
TDS is their story as well as the no climate change 'good' news.
Elon's X suppresses URL links outside of X.
Thats why Blue Sky (another version of twitter without Elon's interference) is attracting people who actually want conversation and not another echo chamber.

It seems the usual suspects don't look at media outside their own comfort zone. The seed of this modern US religio fascism goes back 55 years ago to the John Birch Society. Getting the big picture involves going to some VERY unsavory places.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 11:40 AM

It sounds like Gaetz may have been the stalking horse - he was a really smelly candidate whose stink was so much worse than Bondi's. Trump didn't have her in the first cabinet because they had a financial history (not looking it up this morning - but whatever was a problem before is barely a blip this time around.)

The count is continuing and Trump's margin was very small and his take under 50%, but he'll still shout "mandate!" from the top of the White House.

And still looking closely at those swing state counts to see if there was mischief.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 12:52 PM

In my opinion, if there was ever going to be election interference, it would never be by the Democrats. The Trumpian Republicans could/would have interfered to help their own cause in both elections if they had a chance of getting away with it. It would be poetic justice if it could be proven that Trump and his minions, including his Russian friends, had rigged this election.

Bondi's name was not mentioned in the initial list of possible AG's so either he had her in mind all along and was playing a sneaky game, using Gaetz as bait, or she came into his view later and he dropped his previous list and focused on her.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 22 Nov 24 - 01:06 PM

Here is a link to a YouTube video of the (Oz) ABC TV show Planet America in the episode a couple of days ago where they discuss Gaetz's nomination for AG.

I'll have to listen to it all to find the exact moment when the "stalking horse" comment was made. I've listened up to the 7 minute mark so far, at the conclusion of their interesting comments about Gaetz.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 05:30 AM

Who are these usual suspects, Don? Accusing people of something and then dehumanising them by giving them derogatory names seems very Trumpian to me.

The usual subjects do not...

Immigrants are not...

Jews do not...

Don't have a go at fascist tactics then use them yourself. If you want to accuse anyone of anything individualise them and provide some reference

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 06:10 AM

well I suppose the weirdest thing (and there are many weird things going on) is the way you are viewing this, and thinking of what to do.

The election is a fait accompli - votes have been cast. By the rules of the game Trump has won. Its his turn to have the big cars, secret service men, steal all movables, and screw the interns.

In England we thought Trump was such a plonker that no one would vote for him. I was quite surprisedwhen American friends told me that all their families back home would be voting for Trump.

Rather than calling Republican voters names , or thinking that there has been a procedural error - maybe there was somthing in the Trump manifesto that sensible people did respond to.

Then all you have to do is pretend that its your idea and promise it will be your top priority, even if you think its a lousy idea and you have no interest in or intention to enact the policy.

Thats how it works in England.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 08:05 AM

Vought was an author of project 2025 and has been named to head the Office of Management and Budget.


Folks in the government know you don't get paid unless the OMB and Treasury Department agree.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:15 AM

ACLU has been studying the Project 2025/Plan 47 stuff and probably has documents being drawn up if they aren't finished already. The states will do a lot of heavy lifting to push back against Trump crap.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:34 AM

When it comes to staffing his new administration Trump seems to have a type-19thnews.org/2024/11/sexual-misconduct-allegations-trump-cabinet-picks

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Rain Dog
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:49 AM

"It seems the usual suspects don't look at media outside their own comfort zone."

I would say that the vast majority of us do not look at media outside our comfort zones. It is not just those who disagree with us.


"In my opinion, if there was ever going to be election interference, it would never be by the Democrats."

That comment made me smile.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 10:55 AM

Tammany Hall is an antidote for that idea (this time around).

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 01:05 PM

I'm glad I made your day, Rain Dog. LOL

To be more specific, in my opinion, if there was ever going to be election interference, it would more likely be by the Republicans than the Democrats.

Sorry, my perspective is from Oz, one person one vote, no electoral college mayhem and with a rigorously protected democratic system. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 01:56 PM

well said Big AL

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 03:11 PM

Trump is an American version (to some extent) of Silvio Berlusconi, who was a three times Prime Minister of Italia. Trump has way more power, but there are similarities in his media background and personality. There are significant differences in personality and the complicated and varied politics of the changing United States.
Today National Public Radio did an article on the leaps made in the Hispanic community by the Republicans this election, which are going to be credited to Trump and are likely to be lasting.

I've been ignoring a lot of the blame shuffling going on but I think that article is a keeper.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 03:27 PM

In this world which is getting more and more closely interconnected, we have to learn to tolerate each other. We have to learn to put up with the fact that some people say things that we don't like. We can only live together in that way, and if we are to live together and not die together we must learn the kind of charity and kind of tolerance which is absolutely vital to the continuation of human life on this planet.”
— Bertrand Russell, BBC Face to Face Interview (5 March 1959)

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 23 Nov 24 - 05:39 PM

"loser"
- young TRMP

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 12:04 PM

Election interference/cheating is in the Democratic Party historic playbook as much as the historic Republicans. They often called it an equality of cheating this State for that State but since the W Bush administration it is largely a Republican game. The shenanigans after the civil war was a complex and nefarious mess. The Democratic party rode the coat tails of racism into 1900.

I define 'usual suspects' as those who do not see or report the real world but more often see the world from within their own craven hearts which is a dank and hateful place. Their embarrassment is usually unseen by themselves. They behave like an ass and call that freedom.

The Republicans may end up proving how well government actually works after they rid the country of valuable services and fair justice.
Right now they want government so small they can drown it in the bath tub.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 12:18 PM

The Democratic party in 1900 was essentially the Republican party today. Many things have reversed over time.

Right now they want to pour the cash from government coffers into the pockets of the uber rich. While somehow convincing people that they are behaving this way for their benefit.

There are a lot of tall silos around that are echo chambers of their own material. Not participating on places like Twitter/X now but not deleting it so there is a view into that world is part of the discovery process.

The main qualification for selection on the 2025 Trump cabinet seems to be "As Seen on TV." But to be aware of the thoughts of those citizens who voted against their own self-interest, we need to look far beyond the broadcast channels. And listen to AM radio - it's all right there.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 12:30 PM

Trump called Harris a socialist, very wide of the mark and inaccurate

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 01:35 PM

I define 'usual suspects' as those who do not see or report the real world but more often see the world from within their own craven hearts which is a dank and hateful place. Their embarrassment is usually unseen by themselves. They behave like an ass and call that freedom.

So, who are they then? These craven sub-humans who are beneath you?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 03:06 PM

”So, who are they then? These craven sub-humans who are beneath you?”

Well, Dave, I’m sincerely hoping that none of us who contribute to this thread fall into Don’s list of ‘Craven sub-humans’. I don’t see anyone here behaving ‘like an ass’ and calling that ‘freedom’.

But who knows? Don’s posts are so often a diatribe of unintelligible gobbledygook, it’s seldom possible for us mere mortals to be sure of what he speaks.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 03:44 PM

I am reminded that I made the D&C paper in an interview for calling the analysis of the CIA gobbledygook. This was right before the Russian Whitehouse was attacked, much to our surprise.

that was back during my 15 minutes of fame;^/

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 03:53 PM

I could Google it of course but where is the fun in that?

I have no idea what the D&C paper or the Russian Whitehouse are...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 04:16 PM

Democrat and Chronicle.
I did radio and TV in my 20s. The only media training I had was to not swivel in a swivel chair on air, but instead of defining me how about defining the Trump voter.

I would say 20% are just dopamine addicted to Trump. 20% are influenced by repetition or friends. 30% are WCN religiously told to vote for Trump and another 30% who are up for grabs depending upon the opponent.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 05:33 PM

https://afsa.org/crisis-russian-white-house-1993

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Nov 24 - 06:33 PM

We don't need the esoteric gobbledygook, Don. I'll delete this stuff if you keep it up.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 09:27 AM

Strangely I think, things have changed. When elections were about the mass media - remember that thing about Nixon? Would you buy a car of this man?   he looked shifty (as though he hadn't shaved, some people said) compared to Kennedy's clean preppy look.

It was like Stereo - Kennedy coming out of one speaker - Nixon the other.

Compare that to today - whilst the internet has given us avenues of expression, somehow the voices are not as clear and authoritative.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 11:17 AM

”do not know why you feel a need to please unreasonable ad hominem voices.”

Dave has asked previously, and I’ll ask again - who are these ‘unreasonable ad hominem voices’ of whom you speak? Unless you’re prepared to grow a pair of cojones and identify those you accuse, they might as well just be ‘voices in your head’.

”Why threaten me?”

Because it’s your unintelligible gobbledygook?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:46 PM

Back to the topic:

Donald Trump's criminal prosecution for election subversion and mishandling documents to be discontinued

"US prosecutors have decided to drop two criminal cases against president-elect Donald Trump.

"Special prosecutor Jack Smith has told courts in Washington DC and Florida he is discontinuing the cases, which related to alleged election interference and mishandling of classified documents.

"In a motion filed in Washington, he cited a longstanding Department of Justice (DOJ) policy not to prosecute a sitting president.

"'The government's position on the merits of the defendant’s prosecution has not changed,' the motion says."

"But the circumstances have."

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:48 PM

Sorry, the quote marks went haywire:


"'The government's position on the merits of the defendant’s prosecution has not changed,' the motion says. 'But the circumstances have.'"

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 04:57 PM

So Trump is not guilty.
and Trump has won the latest election.
we cannot change it

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 05:30 PM

He is neither guilty nor innocent, Dick. The case not being tried proves nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 07:25 PM

Smith hasn't said whether he will retain the case to be tried later. The State of Georgia still has a RICO case and that will wait till 2029.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 08:21 PM

Whether he gets convicted in the earthly realm is one thing, but he will be assessed and "sentenced" by St Peter at heaven's gate, and I'm guessing St Peter won't be swayed by human intervention, either by Trump himself or his minions. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 10:03 PM

I don't think St. Peter will have any transactions with Mr. Trump. Do you? He's got a fast track to the hot place.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 25 Nov 24 - 11:21 PM

Well everyone has to be vetted at the border, don't they? And I think it would be heavenly justice for Trump, who claims to be a Christian, to be told in no uncertain terms to head for the down escalator, no correspondence will be entered into. :-D

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 03:17 AM

how about Trumps policy to stop drugs leaving china?
He has said an additional 10% tariff will be levied on China until the government there blocks smuggling of the synthetic opioid fentanyl from the country.
is this a good or bad policy

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 05:46 AM

> an additional 10% tariff

If your only tool is a hammer ....

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 06:59 AM

I do not know if opioids are State sponsored by China to poison the USA. I am sure China remembers the British opium wars well. China may be sending drugs only for profit or maybe just for death and destruction, or both.

The Mexican/Columbian drug cartels were losing money due to the fatal doses of Fentanyl so they have reduced the Fentanyl content and recently fewer deaths are reported in the US due to drugs. Some say NARCAN is responsible for the drop but only slightly. The southern drug cartels are all profit motivated.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 07:03 AM

Dave. the usa justice system
Presumption of Innocence; Proof Beyond a Reasonable Doubt

It is a cardinal principle of our system of justice that every person accused of a crime is presumed to be innocent unless and until his or her guilt is established beyond a reasonable doubt. The presumption is not a mere formality. It is a matter of the most important substance.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 08:44 AM

Now that Trump has received further assurance that he's above the law expect his criminal behavior to kick into a higher gear. His packed SCOTUS and weeny GOP congress aren't likely to offer much resistance.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 08:54 AM

That is only applicable to cases that are tried, Dick. If they are not tried the burden of proof does not even enter into it.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 02:11 PM

Regarding China and drug trade:

I was once bicycling in Eastern Massachusetts and stumbled upon a small museum (of the American China Trade) that was being maintained in a sea captain's former house. The docents there were very hospitable and in telling me of the nefarious trade where the British and Scottish companies sold Opium to the Chinese, one of them bent low towards my face and said: "WE had 10% of that trade!"

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 03:27 PM

The presumption of innocence is not as fundamental as some believe!

The presumption of innocence is considered "reversed" when a legal provision shifts the burden of proof to the defendant, meaning they must actively prove their innocence instead of the prosecution having to prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt; this is often referred to as a "reverse onus" clause and can be seen as a violation of the principle of "innocent until proven guilty.".
Key points about a reversed presumption of innocence:
Reverse onus provisions:
Laws that explicitly state the accused must prove their innocence on a specific element of the crime, often requiring only a "balance of probabilities" standard instead of "beyond a reasonable doubt."
Impact on fair trial:
A significant concern with reversed presumption of innocence is that it can undermine the fundamental right to a fair trial, as the accused may be convicted even if there is reasonable doubt about their guilt.
Strict interpretation:
Courts generally scrutinize reverse onus clauses carefully, and will only uphold them if they are deemed necessary and proportionate to the crime in question.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 26 Nov 24 - 04:12 PM

There are more martial law exceptions as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 04:43 PM

Herd mentality and herd immunity has its costs.
Let me count the ways;
Measles, polio, small pox, dengue fever, covid, women's health...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: keberoxu
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 06:26 PM

robomatic, I saw that America/China museum back in the day.
My most vivid memory is of a portrait of a woman with bound feet.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 27 Nov 24 - 07:20 PM

I remember very elaborate 3 dimensional wallpaper.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Dec 24 - 10:17 PM

The Trump folks had been going after Hunter Biden during the first Trump term, and when Joe Biden was elected he did the presidential thing and let the courts handle the essentially stage-managed case against his son (the special prosecutor in that was a Trump republican but he let it run its course). Now that Biden's leaving office Trump will continue to try to make an example of anyone who displeased him. Joe took the matter out of Trump's hands by pardoning his son, after saying he wouldn't. But as he was saying it I think no one imagined that Trump would be coming back to the White House and all justice is forgotten. I hope Biden is privately writing pardons for all of the Congressional folks who handled to January 6 hearings, because Trump has said he'll go after them also. Make it a pocket pardon - kept under wraps unless it becomes necessary to reveal it. I'm thinking Liz Cheney, Adam Schiff, Cassidy Hutchinson, and others.

Other things he could do to really piss off Trump: commute the sentences of all of the federal death row prisoners and destroy the federal death house. Trump made a big deal of putting a lot of folks to death in his last six months. Biden could step down and make Harris the 47th president of the United States, if only for 2 months. Wouldn't Trump blow a gasket over that!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 07:42 AM

One of the things Biden could do is to make a really big deal about handing over office in a dignify manner really laying into the lack of dignty when he too office himself on the turnip's part.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 10:31 AM

More negativity

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 12:40 PM

”More negativity”

And that is itself a negative comment. How about you give us some positives?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 12:59 PM

Can a president commute the sentences of death row inmates, or can he only pardon them, which could see them freed?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 01:04 PM

A link from the Guardian exposing the corruption of the Bidens that this is coming out is a positive
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/01/joe-biden-pardons-hunter

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 06:18 PM

Oh phooh! Hunter Biden WAS convicted on counts that would get just a fine if the Rpubs hadn't pushed it for politics.
   Trump has already promised to pardon all those' "patriots" from Jan. 6th.
   Read Joe's complete statement.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 02 Dec 24 - 07:38 PM

Other things he could do to really piss off Trump: is silly talk.
If this isn't sarcasm, it is rare that Stilly doesn't resonate with me.

America reminds me that 'winter is coming' in a very Game of Thrones manner. The biggest difference is that there will be no global unification to oppose the foe be it; global climate, nuclear wars, or oppressive punishing fascism.

Idiocracy may involve an assault by loyal sycophants to defund the FBI, let loose epidemics of measles and other controllable virus, and intentionally blinding Intelligence agencies to things like Putin waiting for a Trump White House to use nuclear weapons out of desperation of monumental losses. I expect the ground to shift under the feet of NBC, CNN, CBS, and independent journalists.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Dec 24 - 11:34 AM

Meanwhile, the pundits are going round and round about the Hunter Biden pardon. There is some virtue signalling from a few Democrats who think Biden should have stuck with his pledge not to pardon his son, because "Democrats are better than this." Those same Democrats are delusional if they think Trump would have left Hunter alone after Joe leaves office. But Jon Stewart has simply suggested the timing was the problem.
Jon Stewart Thinks Biden Could Have Timed That Pardon Better
“Normally, you drop a controversial pardon like the way you buy porn at a gas station: in a flurry of other distracting purchases,” the “Late Night” host said.

“Thanksgiving! I knew it! Perhaps I can explain the way this pardon went down in my new one-man show, ‘Can You Get Hunter to Stop Looking at Me Like That?’” — JON STEWART

“He’s an 82-year-old man — he doesn’t want to spend the rest of his life visiting his son in prison.” — JON STEWART

“Hypocrisy isn’t illegal, nor is it particularly unusual in politics. It’s not like he’s ever going to run again, so why not take care of your kid, even if you said you weren’t going to? I respect it. I don’t have a problem with it. The problem is, the rest of the Democrats made Biden’s pledge to not pardon Hunter the foundation of their defense of America.” — JON STEWART

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Dec 24 - 12:39 PM

I do not think Trumps isolationist policies will work.
I also think that his policies re drug smuggling might incur the wrath of the mafia
I predict he will be assasinated

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 03 Dec 24 - 01:01 PM

To a liar, the most dangerous individual is the person who catches lies but doesn't say anything about it. Then the liar isn't sure which lies are compromised.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 03 Dec 24 - 06:34 PM

James Carville says that these lightning rod appointments are the brainchild of Tucker Carlson, not Bannon. They are deliberately designed to be abnormal and wrath-inducing.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Dec 24 - 03:06 AM

Matilda told such Dreadful Lies,
It made one Gasp and Stretch one's Eyes;
Her Aunt, who, from her Earliest Youth,
Had kept a Strict Regard for Truth,
Attempted to Believe Matilda:
The effort very nearly killed her,
And would have done so, had not She
Discovered this Infirmity.
For once, towards the Close of Day,
Matilda, growing tired of play,
And finding she was left alone,
Went tiptoe to the Telephone
And summoned the Immediate Aid
Of London's Noble Fire-Brigade.
Within an hour the Gallant Band
Were pouring in on every hand,
From Putney, Hackney Downs, and Bow.
With Courage high and Hearts a-glow,
They galloped, roaring through the Town,
'Matilda's House is Burning Down!'
Inspired by British Cheers and Loud
Proceeding from the Frenzied Crowd,
They ran their ladders through a score
Of windows on the Ball Room Floor;
And took Peculiar Pains to Souse
The Pictures up and down the House,
Until Matilda's Aunt succeeded
In showing them they were not needed;
And even then she had to pay
To get the Men to go away,   
It happened that a few Weeks later
Her Aunt was off to the Theatre
To see that Interesting Play
The Second Mrs. Tanqueray.
She had refused to take her Niece
To hear this Entertaining Piece:
A Deprivation Just and Wise
To Punish her for Telling Lies.
That Night a Fire did break out--
You should have heard Matilda Shout!
You should have heard her Scream and Bawl,
And throw the window up and call
To People passing in the Street--
(The rapidly increasing Heat
Encouraging her to obtain
Their confidence) -- but all in vain!
For every time she shouted 'Fire!'
They only answered 'Little Liar!'
And therefore when her Aunt returned,
Matilda, and the House, were Burned.
© by owner. provided at no charge for educational purposes

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 04 Dec 24 - 06:37 AM

Ah, now.
Matilda is by Hilaire Belloc. Give a writer his credit!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Dec 24 - 05:47 PM

MY Apologies

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 10:46 AM

A reasonable person adapts to the world.
The unreasonable person wants the world to adapt to them.

Hmm, now which is Trump?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 11:01 AM

The Winner.He won the election

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 11:10 AM

Yes he's a winner, as in the kid's expression "pick me a winner".

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 02:01 PM

Exactly the day after 9-11 Donald Rumsfeld announced that the financial audit of the Pentagon could not account for 2.3 Trillion dollars. It was essentially missing. Rumors claimed that it was just an accounting error. If it was, it was monumental.

Musk and Ramaswamy want to reduce waste and redundancy in government spending and remove regulations that slow down billionaires' projects.

Perhaps they only want to tweet about waste and missing money. Going after the black budget of the Pentagon seems like a naive thing to do.
I believe that putting the squeeze on the military would be a fool's errand. But what if they succeed and find the missing money beyond $500 toilet seats?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 04:22 PM

he might have won but not much will change, he is just another puppeton a string

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 05:59 PM

Win or lose he's still the biggest P.o.S on this planet.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 06:10 PM

Not sure about that gillymor. Putin fits the bill. On a lesser scale, Farage is a complete turd as well. It's just a question of which sociopath can do most harm.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 06:17 PM

Exactly, Dave, he's going to be the leader turd of the free world again.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 06:19 PM

On a more serious note, does Trump really think that the other power hungry creeps (yes, Elon, you at the top of that list) will do his bidding? They all have their own agendas and will stab him in the back in a flash. I think that in a year, maybe two, we will see some pretty major meltdowns. Hopefully they will destroy each other before they can do too much damage.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 06:30 PM

He does have a long history of screwing over his associates sooner rather than later.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 07:22 PM

It's a race to the bottom with those folks, who will shaft the other sooner. My money is on Trump dumping the others.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 05 Dec 24 - 08:16 PM

I read a short, thought-provoking article by Laura Dobberstein on the website called The Register on the possible outcome of the alliance between Trump and Musk. This is the first few paragraphs:

Musk and Trump to fall out in 2025, predicts analyst:
Differing China tech policy agendas will send bromance into 'it's complicated' status

"The CEO and founder of channel-centric analyst house Canalys has predicted that the alliance between president-elect Donald Trump and aspiring oligarch Elon Musk will unravel in 2025, putting Tesla's ability to execute on full self-driving vehicles at risk.

"Speaking at the Canalys APAC Forum, Brazier said the recent US election saw 'two people elected' – the second being Musk, not vice president-elect JD Vance.

"Brazier thinks Trump and Musk will fall out over China, because the former's proposed trade war against is at odds with the latter's reliance on China as a market for Tesla, as well as a source of batteries and other supplies.

"Trump's promise to implement 60 percent tariffs on all Chinese goods therefore hurt Musk and Tesla.

"Brazier also pointed out that Tesla's biggest factory is in Shanghai, and that Beijing gave the EV-maker the very unusual concession of not requiring it to operate a joint venture with a Chinese company. Tesla has also received subsidies from the Chinese state, and remains keen to expand its energy storage business there.

"'Tesla needs batteries from China, or it cannot operate,' commented Brazier.

"'But most critically for Tesla in China, they need to offer full self-driving, or they'll fall behind the innovation of the Chinese industry.' But to deliver that feature, Tesla will need to navigate China's laws around cross-border data-sharing and assure US authorities any agreement doesn't represent risk for stateside buyers.

"All of this is at odds with Trump's modus operandi of 'picking fights everywhere possible as tariffs come in on China,' Brazier explained."

......

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 24 - 03:23 AM

The problems do not begin and end with Trump
you have had an election that gAve you a choice of two puppets who are owned by different corporations, it reminds me of a book called The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: keberoxu
Date: 06 Dec 24 - 09:00 AM

Incumbent Democrat Jared Golden won his Maine district
by the narrowest of margins (there was a recount).

His "progressive conservatism" is worth a closer look.

I've forgotten how to make a blicky (two tries - two failures),
otherwise I would link to the Portland Press Herald that interviews him in depth.

In a nutshell: progressive politics, conservative culture
is what he practices.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Dec 24 - 11:17 AM

Being progressive like beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Dec 24 - 12:04 PM

Whatever that link was Dick it was mangled and no one is going to want to go to a Google mail link for it. Try another route. If you were headed for The Monroe Doctrine as your note suggested, this links to the US National Archives.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Dec 24 - 12:17 PM

PSA for anyone wanting to post links - here is a virtually foolproof resource kindly provided by DaveRo.

I use it all the time, very easy to use.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 06 Dec 24 - 12:19 PM

> Being progressive like beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Verily; and one man's red tape is another worker's safety measure. Give the Oikerati their heads, and we'll see the return of phossy jaw.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 24 - 11:26 AM

Suppose a 60% tariff on Chinese goods is done. What would happen to Walmart, Target, Costco, Dicks, and all the other big box stores?
This is how giant black markets arise via different source organizations.

You can bet retail wouldn't take this lying down.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 07 Dec 24 - 11:42 AM

Selling tariff waivers to big retail could enrich government criminals.
Picking winners and losers is a plan that could be used against Bezos' Amazon by simply NOT selling him a tariff waiver. A war among billionaires could erupt somehow. Crazy?

Not as crazy as a Dr. Fauci needing a presidential pardon for protecting America from HIV deaths and viral infections.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 08 Dec 24 - 07:27 AM

It turns out that Walmart, Amazon, and Temu are protected since Chinese products under $800 are exempt from tariffs.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 08 Dec 24 - 04:25 PM

UKRAINE Trump meets with Zelensky, Zelensky requests negotiations. a promising start
https://www.rte.ie/news/ukraine/2024/1208/1485308-ukraine-trump-zelensky/

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Dec 24 - 05:30 PM

Trump is putting his presidential cart way out ahead of his term in office.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Dec 24 - 07:55 PM

Trump will serve dessert first on day one and pardon the Jan. 6ers.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 05:55 PM

Trump has appointed 11 FOX NEWS hosts and contributors to his cabinet.
The one in charge of ATF, alcohol, tobacco, firearms and explosives is a big fan of the Unibomber like the United Healthcare CEO killer.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 10 Dec 24 - 06:11 PM

In preparation for the next four years, I'm just about to start re-reading a book written by Aaron James called Assholes: A Theory

Not surprisingly, Donald Trump features in the book and the documentary.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Dec 24 - 02:44 PM

Among science nerds, there was something called Maxwell's demons, which made certain experiments seemingly violate the laws of thermodynamics.
https://www.britannica.com/science/Maxwells-demon

I wonder if Trump is full of Maxwell's demons.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 Dec 24 - 04:56 PM

The FBI director says he's going to step down. Darn (and he was a Trump appointee before - go figure). Let's hope the fed chair is made of sterner stuff.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 09:05 AM

RFK is having his lawyer start the process to stop using the Salk vaccine that ended the polio epidemic in 1955.
RFK is a dangerous ultimate quack.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 11:18 AM

Sources, Donuel, please. I've heard the opposite - that he and Musk want to look at the science but haven't made statements about anything so precise as that. RFK is a quack, but keeping track of the facts is still helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 11:25 AM

So after I wrote that a meme popped up on Facebook from Steven Beschloss with nonsense about the polio vaccine. From one day to the next how do you make up stuff like this. But Kennedy's lawyer in the Biden term will just have to wait his turn to be stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 12:42 PM

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/dec/13/rfk-jr-aaron-siri-polio a link from the guardian newspaper
quote
Kennedy, a leading vaccine sceptic, has insisted he has no plans to revoke vaccines should he be confirmed by the US Senate for the health secretary position

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 01:59 PM

Yes RFK made early statements to placate vaccine advocates but my source is MSNBC this morning. Do your own research before you climb on my back or claim I am lying to you. However, I am highly curious about the MSNBC story.

Trump is anti-edifying, horrific, and fun. ding ding ding. While his cruelty to the poor can be horrific his goodwill to billionaires is beyond compare.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 02:05 PM

There is nothing "fun" about Trump and letting RFK Nutbag Jr. anywhere near public health policy is criminal.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 02:15 PM

AH c'mon Trump has a lovable nutjob side as well as a dangerous psychopath who lives by whim, chaos and egotistic gut feelings as long as there is something in it for himself.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 02:22 PM

Sorry, Dude, this tragedy hasn't turned to comedy for me yet and probably never will.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 03:21 PM

what has RFK got against vaccines?

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 03:38 PM

It goes back to a fraud study committed by a British doctor who claimed childhood vaccines caused autism. Conspiracy theories spun out of control of the facts. Dr. Brainworm has gone way down the rabbit hole.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 03:51 PM

WHILE HUMOR DID NOT WIN THE DAY with Stalin or Trump, leave the door open for humor to be a weapon. The HUGE number of Stalin jokes still works for authoritarians TODAY.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 04:59 PM

I am not saying you are lying, i am quoting a link in the guardian. here is the quote
Kennedy, a leading vaccine sceptic, has insisted he has no plans to revoke vaccines should he be confirmed by the US Senate for the health secretary position.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 05:52 PM

Yes, homeboy, it's a laugh riot.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Dec 24 - 06:33 PM

No problem Sandman, Stilly is sometimes haughtily strict.

If RFK thinks all vaccines are federally mandated he is totally misinformed. Its the States that have the final say on vaccines.

However, On September 9, 2021, the Biden Administration implemented Executive Order (E.O.) 14043. This E.O. required federal employees to be vaccinated against COVID-19 by November 8, 2021, or risk removal or termination from their federal employment. (Republican version of truth)

In September 2021, the employees of all federally-funded Medicaid and Medicare-certified healthcare facilities, and Head Start program facilities, were required to be vaccinated, as ordered through the United States Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). (Democratic version of truth)























9

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 03:36 AM

I'm reading, fascinated and horrified, about the US health insurance system, including claims that insurers charged $11,000 for Covid tests that cost $8 (surely this is a myth?) and reports of people losing their homes to pay for medical treatment that would be an affordable cost in Europe…

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 03:46 AM

If Kennedys appointment results in stricter testing of vaccines , imo that is good.Yesi had the polio vaccine and i am not against vaccination, but bearing in mind that the pharma industry is about making profits, the more vaccines are tested properly the better. IF kennedys appointment results in that then, i see no harm.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 04:10 AM

to clarify. it all depends on what exactly Kennedy does

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 09:12 AM

You've noticed how trickster Trump uses labels. He learned this from Roy Cohn. “the essence of tricksterism is change, contradiction,
adaptation, surprise”. As a trickster, Cohn not only redefines labels,
but plays with a multiplicity of Jewish stereotypes and tropes in Kushner’s “Jewish
Fantasia.” Utilizing the item that estranges him from “American” culture—his Jewish identity—Cohn consolidates and preserves his power. Yet, what separates Cohn
from a schemer, for instance “Tricky Dick,” is that the trickster, even a malignant
one, operates from a marginalized position in society. And by operating from the
sidelines, he nevertheless accumulates his power while deftly navigating competing
loyalties alongside the impossibility of assimilation.
By first interrogating categories that threaten to contain him, Cohn successfully creates a space in which he can freely transform, evade, and even redefine identities. Kushner plainly illustrates Cohn’s proficiency in the subversion of labels—an absolute necessity for a trickster.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 09:26 AM

Another surprise and trick would be the elimination of FDIC so that runs on Banks would create a desperate population and nationalization of banks so that the powerful could steal while blaming the banks.

FDIC has worked perfectly since 1930. Ask yourself why Trump wants to get rid of it now when it would only make poor people penniless.
https://nypost.com/2024/12/13/business/trump-aides-mull-abolishing-fdic-as-part-of-deregulation-spree/

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 10:00 AM

Neil D... I no longer follow the news closely. There are people who are paid to keep track of the daily excruciating details of this travesty, but my daily browsing headlines gives me all the information I need.
   If something positive happens, I will gladly read it... after all, there are people whose calling and job it is to struggle against political entropy. My congessman, before I moved was Jamie Raskin, and there are many others who will chip away at this mounting idiocy.

   It won't take long for 15-20 million fools to realize they've shot themselves in the metaphorical foot.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 10:59 AM

"It won't take long for 15-20 million fools to realize they've shot themselves in the metaphorical foot."

Are you sure about that? They didn't seem to realise the last time Agent Orange was in power, and they voted him in again...

Never underestimate the capacity of the foolish to repeat their foolishness over and over...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 12:23 PM

Correct, they might vote next time for the democrats, tweedledum and tweedledee

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Dec 24 - 03:32 PM

All the news is speculation about what could or might happen.
Deliberate destruction of civil rights is nearly assured.
Treason laws regarding the 'King' or Fuerer may return.
Just like climate change is outpacing evolutionary adaptation. the changes in the federal government could fail to mount a defense.
Trump has charmed huge corporations the same way Hitler did.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 15 Dec 24 - 05:00 AM

At the moment, Robert F Kennedy seems to be, in a phrase I heard somewhere, standing back and standing by; we can't know what he'll do until next month when (hell breaks loose), sorry, when the new electees are installed. It's all conjecture right now; conjecture and reply to conjecture. An example, from a piece about 77 Nobel winners signing a letter urging the US Senate to reject Robert F Kennedy Jr as Donald Trump’s nominee for health and human services secretary:
Richard Roberts, winner of the 1993 Nobel prize for physiology or medicine, said scientists had felt the needed to respond to attacks by Kennedy and others.
“These political attacks on science are very damaging,” he told the New York Times. “You have to stand up and protect it.”
In response, a spokesperson for Trump’s transition team said: “Americans are sick and tired of the elites telling them what to do and how to do it. Our healthcare system in this country is broken, Mr Kennedy will enact President Trump’s agenda to restore the integrity of our healthcare and Make America Healthy Again.”

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 15 Dec 24 - 07:32 AM

Good for you Thompson, RFK is indeed Junior. If your uncle and dad were both assassinated under suspicious circumstances you might be broken too. RFK Jr. sounds broken, has a broken brain, memory, and is not a paragon of health. He overdosed on Ambien and drove his car into the white house fence. He claimed he was asleep. There are many accounts of his aberrant behavior about town that accumulate if you are a resident here.
I should always refer to him as 'junior'. Calling him Kennedy is misleading but technically accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 07:59 PM

Donuel:

you just writted:

You've noticed how trickster Trump uses labels. He learned this from Roy Cohn. “the essence of tricksterism is change, contradiction,
adaptation, surprise”. As a trickster, Cohn not only redefines labels,
but plays with a multiplicity of Jewish stereotypes and tropes in Kushner’s “Jewish
Fantasia.” Utilizing the item that estranges him from “American” culture—his Jewish identity—Cohn consolidates and preserves his power. Yet, what separates Cohn
from a schemer, for instance “Tricky Dick,” is that the trickster, even a malignant
one, operates from a marginalized position in society. And by operating from the
sidelines, he nevertheless accumulates his power while deftly navigating competing
loyalties alongside the impossibility of assimilation.
By first interrogating categories that threaten to contain him, Cohn successfully creates a space in which he can freely transform, evade, and even redefine identities. Kushner plainly illustrates Cohn’s proficiency in the subversion of labels—an absolute necessity for a trickster.

Please provide a source or link for WTF you are trying to say? Who is 'Kushner' in this screed? Are you quoting someone or is this original thought of some kind?I'd guess but I don't want to intrude on your independent mind.

BTW, Roy Cohn died 38 years ago in 1986.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 08:47 PM

Cohn was Trump's lawyer. He taught Trump that power is fear. He passed on the trickster process of labeling. He taught him never to abandon a lie. Kushner, no relation to Jared, wrote Angels in America which featured Roy Cohn's evil but ignored his Jewish heritage. Roy Marcus Cohn was an American lawyer and prosecutor who came to prominence for his role as Senator Joseph McCarthy's chief counsel.counselhttps://muse.jhu.edu/pub/60/article/265620/pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 09:15 PM

Jared's father is now ambassador to France.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Dec 24 - 09:26 PM

We should all provide links to sources.

Angels In America by playwright Tony Kushner. Though I don't see the work that Don refers to, so maybe not this Kushner.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Dec 24 - 11:04 AM

Backwoodsman..the last time he was in power, he was just muddling around and pretending to actually do things, especially about migration. Now he is out for revenge and making threats and plans and appointing seriously incompetent people to important jobs. This is a lot more dangerous than his 1st trip.
IF he and his sycophants attempt and/or succeed at half of what they threaten, I predict that many of those who voted for him will be shocked when they are suffering.
   Just to go out further on a limb, I predict another attempt at impeachment.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Dec 24 - 11:25 AM

But that will only happen if Democrats take back the house and the senate. Two years. Two long years to work for that goal, but by then people should be extremely motivated.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Bill D
Date: 17 Dec 24 - 04:10 PM

Well, it can be introduced, but of course it wouldn't go anywhere as long as REPUBS hold both houses....unless The Donald manages to scare some of them also. Impossible? Nawwww...

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 17 Dec 24 - 05:57 PM

Well, I watched PBS Washington Week With The Atlantic on the weekend and I caught a glimmer of hope that there could be enough anti-Trumpian Republicans in the Senate and Congress to vote against some of his proposals, along with the Democrats. Just a glimmer of hope, but....

They'll probably watch and wait intially, but then they might decide to vote for the right and the good instead of a Trumped-up small man with too much power and not enough brain capacity and no moral compass. We can only hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 17 Dec 24 - 06:18 PM

The election of TRMP and the triumph of the Republican party has put paid to a lot of Democratic tropes. On multiple fronts. It has not changed some persistent misreadings that I think are dangerous:

TRMP has personality challenges that make him unreliable as a leader and as a reliable actor. If we ignore those weaknesses they will come back to bite us where and when we're vulnerable.

Related to the above, TRMP doesn't so much LIE as BULLSHIT. There is a difference. And the difference needs to be recognized and played as such.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Thompson
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 04:59 AM

The effect of the next four years depends on people's reaction; if there are mass deportations with children separated from their parents, if people like teachers, doctors, journalists are taken away in waves of arrests, for instance, this can be polarising ("They deserved it!") or people can work together gently and kindly…

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 06:34 AM

You’re right, Thommo, but there’s nothing ‘gentle’ or ‘kind’ about Agent Orange, nor his VP nor, I’m guessing, about most of those he’s selected for posts in his government.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 12:58 PM

theres a difference between lies and bullshit....?

its a tough choice.
I'll vote for the liar.
No! In my family we always vote for the bullshitters!

In the land of the free, the lying bullshitter is king.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: robomatic
Date: 18 Dec 24 - 02:19 PM

A bull****er does not respect the truth enough to lie consistently.

TRMP is not 'just' a liar.

"The only thing worse than a liar is a liar who's a hypocrite."
-Tennessee Williams

"You have no sense of responsibility to anyone or anything. A tragedy in a man and a disaster in a President."
-Gore Vidal

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 24 - 05:54 AM

I do not see Musk wanting to be the speaker of the house and show up everyday but speaker Johnson is on his way out. The next speaker will probably be a Musk puppet.
A government shutdown is due tomorrow because Trump tweeted he wants a debt limit increase to occur in the Biden administration and not in the Trump presidency. That blew up the agreement that was made to continue the government through Christmas. Musk has more power than the speaker. Elon can't be President because he is an immigrant.
The TrumpMUSK Presidency is the next best thing for billionaires.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 24 - 07:19 AM

What has Musk gotten so far?
Between Space X government contracts and Tesla getting tariff help to ban Chinese electric cars and a ban on any data collection on the deaths caused by self-driving cars. As a result, Elon has doubled his wealth by a quarter trillion dollars or 250 billion. Yesterday he made over one hundred tweets to kill the bipartisan agreement to keep the government open.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 19 Dec 24 - 10:18 AM

btw There is a new movie called The Apprentice all about what Roy Cohn taught Trump some 35 years ago that has served Trump to this day.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Dec 24 - 11:09 AM

Now that's a film to go look for!

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 24 - 06:56 AM

Puppet Masters? BS
These billionaires are puppet amateurs.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 20 Dec 24 - 11:24 AM

Trump Musk Cologne the smell of bottomless need and greed.

Pathological greed is like cancer of the brain's simple feedback message, which says, "I need more."
For everyone, it is food, water, or minerals like salt and potassium.
For particular people, they need more of what they already have too much. Maybe it's alcohol, drugs, sex, or money. Many would wonder how you could have too much sex, but it happens.

Woefully Real Estate King Trump has sought respect and aristocratic nobility.
He has a son named Baron which typically denotes an aristocrat who ranks higher than a lord or knight, but lower than a viscount or count.

Musk is a Doge. Formerly it was the chief magistrate in the republics of Venice and Genoa. judge, jurist, justice. A public official authorized to decide questions brought before a court of justice.
Now it is an invention of an imaginary Department Of Government Efficiency unaffiliated with the actual government except by Presidential decree.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Dec 24 - 11:29 AM

To follow up on what I said a couple days ago, Republican house members are already defying the Trump-Musk plans:

I watched this live on C-Span

Lawrence explains

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Dec 24 - 11:43 AM

Sorry, Bill D, but your link to
The Last Word with Lawrence O'Donnell doesn't work.

---

Link fixed. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Helen
Date: 20 Dec 24 - 12:23 PM

I read this ABC (Oz) article yesterday and I don't fully understand how the US political system works so I was a bit confused, but my previous comment about a glimmer of hope was definitely sparked:

US Congress rejects Trump-backed spending plan leaving government on brink of shutdown

"In short:

"A day before a potential government shutdown, the US Congress resoundingly rejected president-elect Donald Trump's new plan to fund operations and suspend the debt ceiling.

"Democrats blasted the bill and 38 Republicans voted against it too, with one representative saying he was 'sickened' by the package.
What's next?

"Speaker of the House Mike Johnson advised the US to 'stay tuned' and said 'we will come up with another solution'."

I get really confused about the option to shut down the government, which includes not paying Federal government employees for a month. Why? What's the point or benefit of even considering doing that?

I also watched the short video on Bill D's link, with the heading "'Government is for grown-ups and Republicans are children': Musk, Trump spark chaos on spending bill". The commentary on that was good, in my opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Dec 24 - 01:10 PM

MSNBC is my go to source for careful analysis of current events. I watch it live on TV, and then do to its website for reminders. Lawrence O'Donnell worked as a Senate staffer years ago and in my opinion does the best clarification of the issues. He often has Andrew Weissman and Neil Katyal on to really dig deep on constitutional issues.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Dec 24 - 07:54 AM

Robert Riech says the 2 trillion dollar spending cuts will come from Social Security, Medicare, removing regulations of safety and health, removing anti-trust measures, lower taxes on billionaires, and labor laws for unions all to serve the interest of billionaires and free up money to be divided by the wealthy.

Musk will shield Trump from the blowback regarding the cuts in these third-rail issues that began with FDR. Time will tell if Musk makes much headway beyond tax cuts for billionaires. Defense spending is probably excluded from the 2025 DOGE plans.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 21 Dec 24 - 02:27 PM

I wish you Yanks would speak English. WTF are ‘third rail issues’? We don’t all speak in your secret code.

---

The "third rail" is the electrified one in the subway that will kill you if you step on or touch it. It is to the far side of the track from the platform, and is in view in any subway station you're in, but if anyone gets down on the tracks, it must be avoided at all costs. ---mudelf

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 21 Dec 24 - 03:45 PM

The third rail of a nation's politics is a metaphor for any issue so controversial that it is "charged" and "untouchable" to the extent that any politician or public official who dares to broach the subject will invariably suffer politically. from wiki

Backwoodsman, i have no idea if this is what donuel means

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 21 Dec 24 - 06:20 PM

From what I understand (which isn't much) resistance to the Trump juggernaut will be pretty much impossible, futile even.

I'm uncomfortable with the labelling of Trump voters as stupid.

Can that many people be stupid?

Someone said to me, who had never voted tory in their life when Thatcher kept getting elected.
Maybe its the government we need at this point. I didn't see it at the time. Not sure I do now, but the future seems quite imponderable.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 22 Dec 24 - 03:47 AM

Never underestimate the power or stupidity of the mob, Al. Especially when the media are winding them up.

Subject: RE: BS: Let's talk about the US election
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Dec 24 - 04:19 AM

I would prefer to wait and see what his policies are, to do otherwise is making a prejudgement