BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!

Subject: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Iarf
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:03 PM

Oh come on you guys (all reference to "guys" automatically assumes non gender specific). I have been lurking since my shameful original appearance on MC. I have since joined as another name (I believe this is a bad , bad thing to do , but as I have only posted as Iarf this once since joining as my other ID I am careless to the objections). I have read with wide eyes the btw Rick Fielding isn't a God thing and the associated threads and decided to come out of lurk to express my complete disgust with the way that GUEST has been treated SINCE HIS APOLOGY.

Give the guy a break. If he/she is a complete **whatever** then at least use the warmth and chemistry of this society to understand and perhaps help mend him/her (please assume him when I write her or her when I write him; it's getting on my nerves too).

Don't give me any of that "we have seen it all before and have had enough" .....we are talking about an individual here not a type. If she had a tough time over December and wrote a posting with a few to many units of alcohol and is now apologetic then let it go.

If he repeats his trespass then try harder to help her.

If , however , you feel you need to rip-off at someone ..then here I am..have a go..my mood is high...I am inflammable and can cope. (should that be unflameable??)

I will not admit to my "real" Id because I would possibly upset another 'Catter and not for any "have you no balls / dick / other male appendage" though why only people with small willy's and no balls are allowed to be pratts escapes me.

Finally to Rick....I have never met you and hope that anything I have said causes you no further embarassment and if it has then please accept my apologies.

I can occasionally be found using my Iarf Id on Paltalk , if anyone feels they want to give me the verbals one to one go right ahead.

I would not use a Kaiser if I had one given to me.;-) I think guns should be compulsory.;-) I think Yanks can't spell.;-)

Should be enough targets there....

Iarf (trying to become an accepted MC'er but will not be shouted down by any Kliques)

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:20 PM

But are you left handed?

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:22 PM

Iarf, you were new, came clean and were instantly accepted and I don't remember anyone causing you further trouble.

The problem with this one is that it has happened before and Rick, who has had to suffer more than most, was again attacked (in a subtle way) and a few of us reacted, perhaps wrongly, but in (I think natural) defense of someone we like and also in anger at yet another attack.

Guest, IMO, got the treatment that anonyous flamers/trollers deserve (although I admit that the best policy is one I failed to follow - ignore) but still has the chance to fit in.

An apology coupled with a name (even a MC one) would probably go a long way to achieving this. I doubt that anyone is going to defend the actions but I believe people would be more sypathetic towards a real person with a real problem.

All I have seen since I last posted in the Rick/God thread (which I left after Rick posting and seeing how embarresd and upset he was) has been further attempts by guest to gain more sympathy and to stir up more shit like this thread.

If he had have been as honest as you were, which is surely the way someone is truely sorry would act, we would all be getting on again.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:23 PM

Well I haven't been reading those threads. But anyone who signs in as GUEST, without even a pseudonym attached can't possibly apologise in any meaningful way, because there's no way of knowing it's even the same person.

That's just one reason why it's a poisonous practice, and I use that word intentionally. A little bit of poison, the body can take it. Too much, and it dies.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:25 PM

Is that the CarolC that can play accordian in any key?...don't tell me you are left handed too?? Oh no......(puts gun to head and finger in opposite ear..pulls trigger)..!!!<<<

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Iarf
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:38 PM

Jon, No ..I wasn't attacked further..I asked for what I got and everyone called it a day. It doesent alter the fact that this guy may need help not acrimony....and if each time he / she tries to be nasty they are welcomed with compassion then the threads would get shorter and the damage less.

Iarf...

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:39 PM

McGrath, can't a guest sign in as anybody? I mean, couldn't our flamer even sign in as me and start flaming/trolling? (If so, maybe I'd better join up, and fast, having given him/her the idea.)

(Iarf, just to give you what you crave: Brits can't pronounce. I mean, Worchestershire? Please...)

Spot, you have a problem with left-handed people? Wanna step out into a Texas alley and "discuss" it?

Sarah

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:41 PM

Iarf, assuming you had the best of intentions when you started this thread, I think it would be appropriate for me to tell you that, technically, this thread counts as an attempt to troll for flames.

Spot the Dog... But why???

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Iarf
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:50 PM

and Jon...this is not a shit thread it was / is a geniune attempt to understand someone who is perhaps where I once was and introduce some construct to the procedings....this way there may be a point to it all.

My problem (and perhaps it may be shared elsewhere) is that the idea of a Klickque sometimes is eay to comprehend. When posting to some threads you have to walk on eggshells and this isn't condusive to open discussion.

and I stick by my Shubb....(Kaisers indeed...!;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Iarf
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:58 PM

I am not about to get involved in another pile of crap...If people see this thread as an attempt to create a flame war then DO NOT POST TO IT. If however they see it as an attempt to "introduce some construct to the procedings" as I have already said then be constructive.

I have a flight sim I can play all on my own going round and round....I just thought perhaps....foolish of me I expect!! Iarf

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 07:59 PM

"McGrath, can't a guest sign in as anybody? I mean, couldn't our flamer even sign in as me and start flaming/trolling? (If so, maybe I'd better join up, and fast, having given him/her the idea.)"

You've got it - so sign up pronto, if you can. Sometimes there are reasons people can't sign on as members, because their computers won''t allow it or something like that. But, apart from when thta is the case, I feel people who stick around and intentionally don't become members are acting a bit unfriendly. (For example any disagreement has to be conducted out in public - which is what helps turn things nasty sometimes.)

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 08:07 PM

Nah, not unfriendly -- just shy...(try not to hurt yourself laughing).

Sarah

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 08:56 PM

Sarah--

I'm a bit withdrawn myself; I lurked for several months before I joined. But membership really does have its privileges.

Bill

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: okthen
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 09:00 PM

Sarah,

you have been/are, so constructive in your replies,please join us.

cheers

bill

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: GUEST,Just Sarah
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 09:06 PM

Okay.

(The form would let me be just Sarah, so...)

Sarah

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: GUEST,Just Sarah
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 09:09 PM

Okay, so why am I still coming up as a guest? The member form said I'm "now operating..." and it reset my cookie (which felt good but is probably fattening), so what's the deal? Am I a reject? Is it all a trick question? Wanna see me pout?

Sarah

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 09:27 PM

Sarah, if you look up at the top of this screen or the forum home screen, way over to the right you'll see the word help. Click on that and explain your problem in the help forum. I'm pretty sure someone will help you if you bring it to their attention there.

Carol

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 09:39 PM

Sarah, Carol is right as the Help forum (or the FAQ to read first) is the best place to ask. Have you tried going to Membership, logging out and then resetting your cooike?

If you have and that has failed, please do post to the Help forum, letting us know what is happening and one of us will help you.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Alice
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 09:57 PM

On a lighter note... if there is a light note here..., an illustrator who does excellent caricatures of the many internet personalities that act out on forums is at this site:
Flame Warriors defined and illustrated. If you have been on the internet for any length of time, you will recognize these characters.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:00 PM

See...this isn't a bad thread after all. It got Sarah on board. Some good comes of all things...Now if Guest would climb up I could go back to lurking and my Flight sim.

Iarf...

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:03 PM

Damn that flight sim...Blown my cover.....

Stop that Dog.....Iarf.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:12 PM

Hi IARF - Nice to hear from you again! I am delighted to hear that you prefer the Shubb Capo.

I also LOVE flight sims! My favourites were: Red Baron (remember that one?), Pacific Air War (an oldie now, but still pretty good), European Air War (ditto), and lately European Air War...which is absolutely great!!!

I tried out the new Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator recently, and have been having a hard time liking it very much. It doesn't seem nearly as good as EAW to me, and it's a year or 2 newer. What the heck? Have I got it configured wrong or something?

Any thoughts on this? Which flight sims do you prefer?

Oh, yeah, what did you mean that guns should be compulsory? Compulsory for what? Just wondering...I prefer to confine my shooting to the computer screen...so I don't hurt anyone, you see.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:13 PM

Spot=Iarf?

Sorry. That's just not funny. Nice try, though. Now we know what you're really like.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:16 PM

Well this has been a riot hasn't it? Hope you get your problems worked out Sarah, glad to have you!

Alice, that's a funny site. I love the guy!!

Combat Flight...WWII, Europe......I'm a killer in the F-W. B-17's dropping like flies!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:21 PM

Hey, Spaw, the Fw190 is my favourite as well. What a beauty of an airplane! The D-9 Longnose version is neat too.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Alice
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:25 PM

Spaw, did you see them all? Which one did you like best? He is very clever in matching his illustrations to the personality descriptions - like Rat, Crybaby, Lonely Guy... Propeller Head... lots of internet forum characters.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: GUEST,Just Sarah
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:28 PM

Unless this miraculously posts as a member, Spaw, no, I didn't. I jumped through all the hoops, but I'm only semi-literate on the computer, so I may need hands-on help. I posted to the Help thread and will wait with my usual patience to see what happens. Checking every 5 minutes or so.

Then I need to I'd figure out how to change my "nickname" 'cause I really don't feel like "just" Sarah: how can I join a clique if I'm Just Sarah? Back to the bottle for more inspiration, I suppose.

Sarah

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Alice
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:29 PM

Sarah, try going up to the Quicklinks pull down menu and choose "Reset cookie".

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: sophocleese
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:32 PM

Alice, I'm having fun looking through all those types that you led us to. Kind of fun matching some of the mudcat persons to the net types.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:38 PM

Spaw, are you trying to tell us that you are Spot the Dog and Iarf?

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:46 PM

What??? uh, Carol.........No, I was just enjoying the way this one has run its course. The only other posts to come from this house have been from Cletus, Paw, or Cleigh O'Possum and I try to keep them awqy from the keyboard as much as possible!

Alice, I'm still going through all of them. What a great site. I bookmarked it so I can go back and use it occasionally and also keep up with anything new the guy adds. Some of them are just priceless!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 10:59 PM

Sorry CarolC....Like one of your ? Presidents..I can tell a lie but don't like to...I am Iarf and Spot the Dog. I have never hidden the fact that I joined as Iarf in a very naughty and unpleasant manner and then realised I rather liked the cafe and the members (all of them...no exceptions) and rejoined as another id. I hoped to avoid ever posting again as Iarf but got annoyed at the "hounding" (good eh) of another poor soul and thought if people wanted to kick someone to death why not me (Iarf). While doing this they would leave Guest alone...He was sounding desparate in his apologies and some of the members of the cafe were unrelenting and unforgiving.

They forgave (relatively) Iarf and so they should forgive Guest. He may become a benefit to the cafe. He may not but that as the cabby of Emerald City said is a horse of a different colour (color).

Complex isn't it this life of ours.

I am truly Iarf and Spot the dog ( I rather hoped someone would have noticed the connection....arf arf)...

Oh...could I have just one more say before the net police come and confiscate my P.C. and remove my ID forever. This is really sometimes an unforgiving and inexplicable cafe....sometimes I call ....have a (logical) cofee and listen to such heartwarming events and tales of support and love and comfort that not infrequently I have been moved to tears , and this is not intended to be funny or sarcastic but collegues think I have hay fever in winter coz my eyes fill up.

This is then followed by vicious and unrelenting punishment of any offender who steps out of line....and would you believe the people who offer the most support and comfort are the ones who dish the heaviest fines for non compliance.....Go ahead...Kill..But look you first hard and long at what you have , like the Penguin Cafe the Mudcat Cafe is a concept not a building and ALL inside that concept are the cafe. If entrance is unrestricted then so is the concept. If you restrict the entrance then you limit the concept.

Phew...I think I understood most of that..I know what I meant to say and if my powers of argument are poor it doesent mean I am wrong.

Spot the Iarf.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:07 PM

Sorry...Flight Unlimited II is the sim...I am flying a P51 Mustang...damn Yank aircraft...doesn't handle like the good ole Spitty or Hurricane but fun nontheless.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:09 PM

Spot the Iarf, if you went back and read the thread, you would find that even Guest suggested being PM'd by Bert and acknowledgement by Guest that Bert knows who this person is. This is not a newcommer but a regular Mudcatter.

Forgivenes is still possible but the situation is different to the one you are imagining, especially in the light of repeated attacks.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Sarah2
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:13 PM

Hey, Jon, thanks! Your "Help" advice helped.

Sarah

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:20 PM

Glad you finally made it Ms. Sarah; Welcome!

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:22 PM

Hey Spot, you been doin' fine and I'm glad you like the place so stick around as Spot, you have some fine posts.

Jon said the other "Guest" was a different situation and it is. matter of fact, there are a couple of members playing this game and for the life of me, I truly cannot figure out the motivation of it at all. The idea that by taking a shot at someone they know will somehow gain them anything isn't something I can easily understand. I suppose there is some relationship to the old saying that we are never completely happy with the success of a friend, but I'd hope that at some point on the maturity scale, we'd cope with it.

Hang around Spotty, just don't piss on the carpet huh?

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:24 PM

I think I understand that Jon. My argument still stands. If we help and encourage him / her every time he / she has a go then the cafe will benefit. It's painfull for the guy who is getting the flack (Rick) but he also has the Cafe to support him and we quite obviously do.

Spot the Iarf ...(getting slightly more confident but still frightened of the Cafe Hit Squad)

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: DougR
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:30 PM

Iarf: In my opinion, it matters not how difficult a day one is having, how difficult a week or month one is having, that does not justify one belittling, or casting aspersions on a fellow Mudcatter.

It's immaterial that it was Rick. It could just as easily have been you, me, or any other member of the community that he/she chose to attack.

It's just not right, and saying, "I'm sorry," will not ensure that it won't happen again.

A flamer is just that. They get their kicks out of flaming, and as far as I'm concerned, they don't deserve any sympathy at all from any of us.

I'm sure all of us have our own problems, but most of us find some way to cope with them other than attacking others.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:35 PM

Spot the Iarf, no one is going to hit you for being fair and reasonable about things which is what you are being.

I still think that there are limits as to how often nastiness can be accepted from the same person and that anonymous flaming/ trolling is not an acceptible way of going about anything. There are other places but I remain convinced that there would be plenty of support here if this person wanted to come clean an start afresh. Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:41 PM

Spot the Dog/Iarf, I think I know who you are now.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:43 PM

Piss on the Carpet.....Piss on the carpet..Just what kind of a dawg d'yer think I am....some bloody Yank hound....I am a thoroughbred English Lancashire Tripe Hound. Sometimes known as a Manchester Clitlicker. I have never ...er.. passed water on a carpet in my life and don't intend to start now. I wouldn't think that you (as a Cat type of person) would understand but house training is very important to us dogs. As is acceptance and unconditional love. and while I am 12 units to the wind....do you know just how much influence you have on the Cafe as Catspaw49? I bet you don't realise just how much....and that is not flattery (it's not agression either) just statement of fact.

Curious. Spot (the very house trained) Dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 06 Jan 01 - 11:58 PM

Snip "but I remain convinced that there would be plenty of support here if this person wanted to come clean an start afresh. Jon " Snip

Perfect. Jon I could not have said it better. I tried with a coupla hundred words...You did it in 20 something.

The Cafe is there to help not hurt..(or am I a newbie speaking out of turn and pissing on the carpet?)

Now we need the Cafe residents to ask Him / Her to come clean and feel that unconditional acceptance.

It's hard for a stiff upper lip English Lancashire Tripe Hound being this open and bonding type of thing but sometimes we just need that tea tax.....!

Tosp.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 01:36 AM

UArf, you dog, you!

I, for one, don't have a problem with your new newspaper on the floor. There's been a time or two in my life when I desperately needed people to accept me and go on. Luckily for me, they did. I wish you the same luck.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 01:58 AM

All this politics is too much for me. My head is swimming.

Flight Unlimited II, you say? What's that? The Mustang is a pretty good all-round fighter, but it seems to lack personality or something. Also, I've noticed that most American fighters fly like a truck with wings attached. They're fast, tough, and have good firepower, but they still fly like a truck. The P-38 Lightning is an exception, however. It's a remarkably useful aircraft.

The Spit and the Hurricane are beautiful fighters, specially the Spit...a deadly little machine.

Japanese fighters all fly like a dream, but they're mostly too fragile...except for the Hayate, which could hardly be better in any way...and the Ki-100 is darn good too, and the Shiden as well, come to think of it...they were late war fighters, and the Japanese had learned by bitter experience to build more rugged planes.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 09:00 AM

I still don't know how you can tell GUEST from GUEST from GUEST...

But Flame Warriors is great stuff. I've got a folder in my favorites for Mudcat, with the various alternative Mudcat addresses and related sites, for when the gremlins are messing ariound and making access difficult. I've now added this one in there, so if that happens and I'm missing anyone here I can go and look at their alter-egos.

I haven't as yet worked through them all by a long way - but I am inclined to think we are probably all in there somewhere...

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: GUEST,Noreen
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 10:11 AM

Well, Monsieur le chien boutonneux, now that you've 'come out', do I get the prize for recognising you?? And when are you going to make a foray into 3-D Mudcat world- I'd be interested to meet a dog of such impeccable breeding... and you can sit at my feet...

And btw, don't take Spaw seriously, no-one else does! :0)

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Dave Wynn
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 11:24 AM

Cor Noreen...I just love it when you speak French....and Mr 'Spaw deserves to be taken seriously...I rather like him...(oops...Sycophant in Flame Warriors)..

Spot.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 11:49 AM

Noreen, bet you a pint you have met him, or at least been in the same room as Spot. (Manchester)

I've enjoyed Spot's company and singing in PalTalk, as well as his presence here. Spot, I think you took the "getting off on the wrong foot" far more seriously than anyone else did because you have a conscience. I have doubts about the consciences of others who intentionally start trouble on a repeat basis, but I'm not concerned enough to dwell on it. I'd be more inclined to think of self-editing as giving Mudcat a break, rather than the person who started the mess. The comments people make affect far more people than the intended target.

Subject: RE: BS: Iarf Rides Again.............!
From: John Routledge
Date: 07 Jan 01 - 01:19 PM

SPOT: When are 3D people going to hear you arf'g.

Both the Jolly Angler (Mon) and the Ducie Arms (Wed) await. I went to Ducie Arms for first time ever last week and had a wonderful welcoming evening. The Jolly is also wonderful (I have been twice just before Christmas).

Both start around 9.30pm and are singaround format - generally unaccompanied - if you're not already aware.

I am sure that you will get as warm a welcome as I did at both venues. Looking forward to meeting you even if I don't realise that you are Spot. Cheers John