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BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix
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Subject: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 18 Nov 11 - 02:30 PM So today I found out by email that technically I am worth more dead than alive. My job is going away and they didn't even have the decency to tell me in person. Feeling pretty sorry for myself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: maeve Date: 18 Nov 11 - 02:40 PM Singing for you in Maine, Tamara. It's pity me, my darling... |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Richard Bridge Date: 18 Nov 11 - 02:49 PM I am very sorry to hear this. But you expected "decency" from a conservative council? |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: SINSULL Date: 18 Nov 11 - 03:01 PM A crappy cowardly way of handling it, Miss Tam. But you are worth more to us alive than dead. Hang in there. Something better will come along. It always does. Keep your eyes and options open. Mary |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: LilyFestre Date: 18 Nov 11 - 03:03 PM Ugh. How rude! So sorry VT. :( XOXOXOXO Michelle |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Joe Offer Date: 18 Nov 11 - 03:08 PM That stinks, V.T. I hope you come out on top in the end. All Used Up by U.Utah Phillips might be a good song for you right now. Spit at 'em! (But remember that we love you) -Joe- |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: katlaughing Date: 18 Nov 11 - 03:25 PM Yes, we do and yes, they are snivelling, sniggering, snidely, yellow-bellied sidewinders so you don't need them in your life! Good riddance to them. Now you can look onward and upward as Art Thieme always says. Something better is yours. luvyakat |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 18 Nov 11 - 03:43 PM Awww lovely people. Need to figure out how to fake my death... Get 3X current annual salary sent to my darling honey. Has to be better than 18 weeks redundancy pay. Wish the people downstairs would quit screaming at each other. This weekend ain't startin out so good. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: jacqui.c Date: 18 Nov 11 - 03:44 PM Sending good thoughts for something better in very short course. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: EBarnacle Date: 18 Nov 11 - 03:48 PM Regrettably, we are valued either for our muscle or our brains. It's bad when they value our space more than they value us. Are you being replaced or just excessed? Do you have seniority rights? The union forever! |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Stilly River Sage Date: 18 Nov 11 - 03:49 PM So sorry to hear this, VT. I wish there was a way to offer strategies to consider for the next job, but the system over there in the UK is a bit of a mystery. Good luck in finding a new job very quickly, and let's hope it's with nicer people and they pay much better! SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: gnu Date: 18 Nov 11 - 04:00 PM Fired by email? I'd like to say a lot of things but I am TRYING not to do that anymore... and it's tough. Hang in there darlin. One door closes, kick another one down. I wish you good luck and little stress in finding your next adventure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 18 Nov 11 - 04:03 PM They are restructuring all business support into one entity which will deliver from a catalogue of services. In the restructure all posts are being redefined and many tasks are going away because new business services will not deliver them. Much of what I do is not in scope but my post is. There will be a rude awakening at my work when they realise they cannot get the same service. So there are X number of posts and Y number of people. All put into a pot with a matrix of selection criteria. My specific job is gone. I might succeed to another post, but it is doubtful. Even so it will likely be lower band, reduced hours or so far away as to make commute expensive or a combination of all 3. Fun days. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 18 Nov 11 - 04:10 PM I say it is doubtful I will succeed to another post, because we have seen this scenario played out in other service areas. My two band 2 colleagues put in for voluntary redundancy (they are 60 and 63) and were rejected. We know in other service areas, the older women who asked for VR were kept on while the younger ones who needed the job were let go. The older women ended up quitting due to the added pressure. I am 12 years away from retirement age. It would be expensive to put me in a band 2 post under band 3 protected salary for 18 months. My redundancy is only 18 weeks of pay. The cheaper option is to let me go and pay the 18 weeks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: fat B****rd Date: 18 Nov 11 - 04:32 PM I really wish I could say - or do -something magic for you, VT. But,if you will excuse the vulgarity my late Dad would say to me "Keep buggering in, son" Best regards from Charlie. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Little Hawk Date: 18 Nov 11 - 06:31 PM I'm sorry to hear of your job loss. But keep your eyes open, because the ending of one thing (job, relationship, etc) is usually an opportunity for an opening to the beginning of the next thing, and you never know...the next thing might turn out to be better. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Janie Date: 18 Nov 11 - 07:27 PM That's hard, VT. All of it. What LH says can turn out to be true more often than people realize - but the knuckles sure can turn white waiting to see. Sending best thoughts. Remember to breathe. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: KT Date: 18 Nov 11 - 08:04 PM What little Hawk said. Try to stay hopeful. Believe there is something better waiting for you and all you have to offer. BELIEVE! Wishing the best for you! KT |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Bobert Date: 18 Nov 11 - 08:24 PM This sucks big time, VTam... Sometimes these things work out for the betterment... Gotta think that way... Meanwhile, just get you a "Super Soaker", fill it with permanent ink and go empty it on the bosses... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 18 Nov 11 - 08:43 PM Return to America.
Obamma's mamma has embraced the poor....and is offering defaulters more.
Sincerely, I feel your pain, let me explain, the UK stopped loaning to Spain, and your personal debt has made you a slave. BR, PH, SP, CH, GR, might now welcome you in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Gurney Date: 18 Nov 11 - 09:17 PM The last time it happened, I finally got fed up trying for another job and started my own business. It lasted me to retirement and it was more interesting than any job that I ever had. Also busier, more complex, more engrossing.... less well paid. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Sandra in Sydney Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:48 AM big hug from me, Tam & best wishes for getting to the better thing awaiting you asap sandra |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:54 AM I see Gargle is helpful as ever. Believe me darlin, if I could get a job that had decent family health insurance, I would be there like a shot. I have some ideas for charities I would like to start to benefit vulnerable adults. I have friends in my current job who know how to write grant proposals and business plans. Maybe I will start working on these, though I don't see how this will add to my pension and pay for a trip to US once a year, much less allow me to help my family in US. At least it will keep me doing something useful. Thank you all for the good wishes. Feels wonderful knowing there is this background of virtual friends. BTW Gargle, I have never in my life had welfare benefits of any type though by all accounts there have been times that I was entitled, including now given my disability. I prefer to pay my own way and if I can, I will. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: GUEST,saulgoldie Date: 19 Nov 11 - 07:08 AM VT, I am very sorry to hear this. I wish I had some good advice or words of deep wisdom. I hope for the best for you. Saul |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Dave the Gnome Date: 19 Nov 11 - 12:50 PM Hey VT - Make the most of ANYTHING you can get off the government. You have paid them enough. It isn't begging or scrounging of other people. You have done your bit - Let them help you out! DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Jack the Sailor Date: 19 Nov 11 - 01:49 PM Worth repeating, full sized... I have never in my life had welfare benefits of any type though by all accounts there have been times that I was entitled, including now given my disability. I prefer to pay my own way and if I can, I will. VirginiaTam |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: ChanteyLass Date: 19 Nov 11 - 02:31 PM Aw, I hate reading bad news. Hugs and hope that a better job comes your way soon. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Dave the Gnome Date: 20 Nov 11 - 06:56 AM I did read that JtS - and what I am am saying is forget it. VT - you ARE entitled to it. Especialy so in your case - it is the very ruling party that have put you in this position. Get something back off them. Principles do not pay the rent. I am lucky enough to have had only 2 x 3 month stints of unemployment in over 40 years - and I did not claim anything either time. I wish I had. Good luck whatever you decide. DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 20 Nov 11 - 08:35 AM I am not intimating that anyone claiming benefits should be like me. I have just been raised be uncomfortable with asking for help. You can ask TheSilentOne, how I will stubbornly continue at physical tasks which cause me such pain as to make me cry. Yet I will not ask for or even accept help when it is offered. I refuse to be cowed by the disease which is deteriorating my joints. How much more I am determined not to seek assistance from the government even as a last resort. I am not built that way. It would be different if I were asking for someone else. I could easily be an advocate for someone else. Is this pride? Is it a sense of undeserving? Is it the need for self-sufficiency? Probably a mix of all of the above. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Nov 11 - 09:22 AM Claim your benefits. You have earned them. You have paid for them. You deserve them. You are entitled to them. Religious self-flagellation is not called for. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 20 Nov 11 - 12:09 PM Sigh... DLA and blue badge forms part completed... I just dread interviews and examinations. I cannot help but put on the brave face in such situations. So why put myself through that degradation? I will register at Job Centre when time comes because of National Insurance and pension thing. I will actively seek jobs that I can physically do and will not cost me more than they are worth in transportation costs. The job thing is why I am applying for DLA and blue badge. I suspect I will be done for not accepting a low wage shop assistant post 15 miles away if I don't show some official evidence of disability. I feel too old and tired for all this. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Nov 11 - 02:32 PM All singers can act. Act to turn the brave face off. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Dave the Gnome Date: 20 Nov 11 - 03:20 PM I will register at Job Centre when time comes because of National Insurance and pension thing. I will actively seek jobs that I can physically do and will not cost me more than they are worth in transportation costs. Perfect, VT. A lot of people have a very negative view of job centres, and quite often for good reason. They are however, in my experience (2 daughters and a son registered at one time or another) staffed by helpful and sympathetic people. Son #3 is currently on the dole (I made him redundant - how cruel is that!) and he has been on an excelent computer course so far. His assigned worker at the job centre is like a friend and does his best to place him in a suitable job. There is no stigma involved at all. Go for it gal! :D tG |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 20 Nov 11 - 03:26 PM Good grief... I hope they don't put me on a computer course. I could teach anything to at least intermediate level MS Office apps. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Richard Bridge Date: 20 Nov 11 - 06:24 PM Go girl! You might get your trainer's job! |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Dave the Gnome Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:04 PM Son #3 worked on 1st and 2nd line Unix support for 2 years amd made a good job of it. Still didn't stop him from learning something new from a government sponsored computer course! Go into to anything new with an open mind and you may learn something. Close your mind and you never will. Just play the game amd you will not go far wrong. I know it sucks, VT, but just pretend that you are interested in learning and they will pay you! Odd innit? :D tG |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: GUEST,999 Date: 20 Nov 11 - 07:53 PM "RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix" Hi, VT. I have been following this thread since its inception and have wanted to say 'bullshit' for quite some time now. From many people the need for recognition and empathy is obvious. From you what is evident is your independence and anger with an unjust situation. This thread is not about pity and neither is it about your need or want for any. You are speaking as you always have, and speaking well. It is not my place or right to make suggestions, but I will and I'll live with your wrath. 1) Take what you need from the institutions available. When you don't need them anymore, stop. It is not charity, it is recompense. Social 'blankets' are something you paid for. If you can't take it yourself, you must have felt a superiority when you provided for others, and knowing you from our various exchanges, I just don't believe that of you. 2) This thread differs substantially from others of its 'kind' because you are not specifically addressing your problem, but more one faced by many people every day. It deals with injustice and because it IS injustice, a subject that must resonate within the thoughts of people who care at all about what presently addresses you and you in turn confront with courage and equanimity. 3) In the words of the Prophet, fu#k 'em. You are a strong person, and just be what you are: a strong person. You don't need sympathy or 'I'll light a candle for you' or 'I'll raise a glass'. You already have what you need: guts. Once the gloom passes, be yourself. You are a damned good gal, and defeat ain't a word in your vocabulary, imo. BM |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Dave the Gnome Date: 21 Nov 11 - 05:52 PM Well said, Bruce. D. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 22 Nov 11 - 03:32 PM well well well... Been putting together some thoughts on a non profit linking artists with vulnerable adults that I would like to get rolling. Make use of empty shop space in busy town centres. Good for landlords, good for artists (who tend to stick to very large city centres like London), good for VAs who will receive art tutoring, display and sales experience and working with public and good for the communities as it provides support for VA to get out in community, brings culture into barren places (empty shops). Talked to Arts Dev manager who put me on to one of her team who writes grant proposals and works with arts projects. Got a couple of friends / former colleagues (one also about to be let go from council job) who are keen on this idea. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 29 Nov 11 - 04:41 AM I have a question? I am in the throes of the worst rheumatoid arthritis flare I have ever experienced and it appears to not be responding to treatment (increased MTX). Feel utterly crippled by pain and the inflammation in bloods is very high. Is it possible that the threat of losing my job is so stressful that it is impacting the disease? Have to say I have been quite terrified by the prospect of not having a job. Afraid I won't have funds to visit home once every few years. So scared that I have been going into work when I really shouldn't. When the pain is so bad that it makes me weep, makes me sharp tongued, etc. I am in the final wave of selection now. By 12 to 15 December I will either be offered a job (possibly one I can't accept) or compulsory redundancy. What recourse do I have? |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Richard Bridge Date: 29 Nov 11 - 04:51 AM I think your scenario (about stress) is very plausible. If you mean "recourse" as in "legal remedy", well, if the redundancy has been properly handled (which is likely) only redundancy pay and the award is calculated on age and duration of service - but a local authority will probably be paying more than the minimum. If it has not been properly handled (and I'd have to think about how the Equality Act fed into the equation - it definitely applies in the field) then you have a shot at an unfair dismissal remedy - the compensatory award is calculated like redundancy but there is also a potential compensatory award (which, er, compensates) capped at about £65,000 and given the difficulty you face in getting another job I'd have thought you could have been shooting for big numbers on that. Have you talked to a lawyer (doh!)? |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 29 Nov 11 - 06:18 AM Richard I am certain it will be handled by the book to cover the collective council ass. My worry is the fact that I will not be able to find out how my supporting statement was weighted against others. What I do know is that most band 3 posts are going away and there are too many band 3 and band 2 people for the number of FTE posts left. Also impossible to find out if someone was chosen over me because it was cheaper to keep them than to keep me. I will be at the top of my pay band in April. It would be cheaper for the council to make me redundant than to pay me protected pay for 18 months. At my age and due to disability I am unlikely to get another job outside the council. If the council offers me a job where I must travel long distances by public transport I don't think I will be able to physically cope. So if I do not accept whatever they offer me, which could be reduced or shift hours and far away from where I now live and work, then I have sacked myself and they pay me nothing. Not even redundancy. This is causing me a lot of stress. I am not the type to go off work with stress. I am not built that way. But I am home from work yesterday and today with unmanageable pain. I am working from home so not taking sick days. I also regularly carry over more earned flexi time than I can technically take per pay period. So the council is getting extra hours of work out of me. This cannot be counted in my favour though. The whole ordeal is making me feel wretched. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: theleveller Date: 29 Nov 11 - 06:23 AM Sorry to hear of your problems VT. Your idea for linking vulnerable adults with local artists is an interesting one. Recently, mrsleveller, in her roles as an organiser with the Workers' Educational Association, organised just such a venture in association with the local authority Gateway scheme, which supports VAs. A local mosaic artist was commissioned (paid by the WEA) to work with a group of people who had physical and learning difficulties and stress- and depression-related issues to produce a mosaic mural on a theme decided by the group. The result was amazing, created a huge amount on local and media interest and now hangs in Selby Town Hall. It was also of immense benefit to all those involved, giving them confidence and communication skills which are sure to help in their lives and with seeking employment. There's probably a local WEA branch near you and it might be worth contacting them and discussing it. The problem now, as you no doubt know, is that schemes like this, and especially those set up by local authorities to help VAs are being axed because of government cutbacks. Mrsl would like to run another one but simply can't get the funding. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 29 Nov 11 - 07:07 AM Thanks leveller.. will look into it if or when the time comes. What I don't understand is how specific tasks I am responsible for are going away? In the new scheme there will be no filing by business support because the council is supposed to be moving to paperless and everyone is to be responsible for their own filing. The STRIPDEX (system managing over 8300 legal contracts and correspondence pertaining to archived material which must remain in the building for legal reasons) cannot be managed by the archivists. It needs one person creating new files, generating next numbers, weeding out duplicates and putting in cross references. It doesn't make sense to take an archivist out of the business of accessioning new deposits, cataloguing current archives and answering inquiries to do filing. Who will collect and report on the statutorily required statistics. I suppose the archivists and manager will have this dumped down on them as well. This is where I feel the Archive Service Manager fell down in relation to explaining what the service needs. The building will still need someone to enter complaints into the RESPOND system. I am the only one trained to use this system which is also required by council. I do Marketplace orders and INNTEL bookings both of which are also band 3 according to the new catalogue, though they do not have to be done by someone in the building. Most of my job will still have to be done by a band 3. So how does this make my post redundant? |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Bonnie Shaljean Date: 29 Nov 11 - 08:27 AM Huge sympathy from this quarter - I agree with Bruce, this is not a matter of self-pity but plain fact. Not that it helps any, but the admirable Steve Yates posted this on Facebook awhile ago and it's worth a share (trust he won't mind): "Those who are too smart to engage in politics are punished by being governed by those who are not." - PLATO |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Richard Bridge Date: 29 Nov 11 - 09:05 AM The obligatory consultation process should have clarified the criteria for redundancy. Your union rep should have the details. I am not an employment law specialist but I know that much! |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: YorkshireYankee Date: 29 Nov 11 - 10:09 AM VTam, my heart goes out to you. I know what it's like not to have enough money to get "home" every year -- and I don't even have kids over there, which must make it so much harder for you. I have no advice to offer -- only heartfelt wishes that you will somehow end up in a happier situation when the |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 29 Nov 11 - 10:18 AM Just to add my best wishes to those already offered. I know you are not the type to want pity really. It is not the same as the sympathy we are all feeling for you. keith. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: GUEST,mg Date: 29 Nov 11 - 07:22 PM Absolutely the stress will make everything worse...have you read up on tumeric etc.? I would not worry in advance about everything. Just solve a problem at a time. Air fares can be very reasonable in off-seasons. Perhaps $400 from England to somewhere on East Coast...if you end up laid off there are still ways you can earn $400 in one month without hurting yourself...we can brainstorm when the time comes...mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: We need a 'pity me' prefix From: VirginiaTam Date: 30 Nov 11 - 05:15 AM Thanx for the lovely thoughts, everyone. And MG thank you for helping put things in perspective. Very true I could possibly do occasional office type jobs for small businesses, sell crafted items (I have loads of supplies) maybe even busk in good weather, to raise funds for a visit home. Yesterday during my health check with practice nurse I mentioned the probable job loss. She said they had just filled 2 part time posts in the surgery yesterday. Advised I put a CV in because there is a frequent turnover in support and reception staff. That is a mixed message, some hope on the horizon re a potential job and what's wrong with the surgery that they leak support staff? |
