BS: Football World Cup 2006

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 May 06 - 03:22 PM

was it last world cup or the world cup before where Roy went off with the Irish team and then had an argument with the manager and wouldn't play?

I can remember the gig I was doing that night, but I can't remember what year it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 29 May 06 - 03:50 PM

2002.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 29 May 06 - 04:22 PM

I have NO excuse. Of course he is. I guess I was just wishing that he had been in that Belarus game to get a red card and send those bastards a message. Same thing with wishing Rooney had been there. He might be a Brit by birth, but I've seen him give up a good cross to smack a thug in the face and be high fived by Keane upon doing so... so, I conider him "kinda" Irish, if not by name, by action.

Hmmm... seems to me it was an eastern European Rooney "smacked" that particular time I am thinking of. Tall, blonde headed fellow. Nailed him square in the gob with the ball. And, got the throw-in.

When Keane screwed off from the last cup, I suspect it was all about money. Can't blame him, or the "game". Why risk injury if there is little chance of winning?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 06 - 05:46 PM

Gnu I think maybe you should read what the man had to say for himself about the incident here . Money didn't enter into the equation. In truth I don't think it can be said that he screwed off. Things were said that he couldn't put up with and the rest is history. I truely believe with Keane in the team Ireland could have reached at least the semi finals of the last world cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 29 May 06 - 05:50 PM

Oops didn't sign in. The guest above was me.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 29 May 06 - 06:24 PM

This is an interesting article on the German view of the beautiful game and the significance of the World Cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 30 May 06 - 12:36 AM

Den : "I truely believe with Keane in the team Ireland could have reached at least the semi finals of the last world cup."

Well, we'll never know if Ireland was injured.

BTW, don't listen to me. I know very little of this. I just know who I like to watch play. I defer to the experts who have posted here... and I'll try to keep my gob shut.

Thanks for the link.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 May 06 - 02:08 AM

I'm no expert either, but I was in a pub full of Irishmen in Derby that night, or maybe it was the night before Ireland entered the fray. they all seemed to be experts. Some blamed Keane - most blamed the manager, but said he should have played, whatever the justification. Everybody said the Irish team was a weaker team because of his absence.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 06 - 04:39 AM

3,000 English football fans have had their passports confiscated by the police to stop them going to the World Cup !

There are countries who don't even have that many supporters!

Shows the world the unacceptable level of English thugs in football.

When is Colditz opening to accept those that are going over !

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 May 06 - 11:19 AM

Guest, if you going to insist on stirring it, please present the facts. There are a total of 3,826 people in the UK who have been placed on a 'watch list' for football-related mischief (population of the UK is just over 60 million) 200 deemed high-risk in Wales have been issued notices they will have to hand in their passports to police before the World Cup. Wales. You heard of it? It's not England.

more accurate story here

It's a preventative measure. It is intended to anticipate and prevent naughtiness.

I for one am not sorry a lack of violence will ruin your World Cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 May 06 - 11:28 AM

More accurate -- and clickable! -- story here

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST
Date: 30 May 06 - 12:20 PM

TheBigPinkLad So we can look forward to a great World Cup and the English Supporters behaving impecably whilst in Germany?

Thanks that's great news.

Wouldn't call some of the scenes from previous English supporters visits to Europe shown on Yorkshire Television two weeks ago NAUGHTINESS though, seemed a little more, what's the word I'm looking for ?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 30 May 06 - 12:47 PM

Could you id yourself with a name, dude? You can make up a pretend name ... it's just that I wouldn't want to confuse you with a different Guest that was less parochial and had sound logic.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 30 May 06 - 02:04 PM

...or had anything to say.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 May 06 - 05:41 PM

Never worth paying any attention to nameless Ghosts. Why even bother?

As for gnu's suggestion that a defining characteristic of Irish players is thuggery, that's rubbish.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 May 06 - 03:20 AM

I see Peter Crouch scored a good striker's goal against Hungary.

No one seemed to mention the part played in this goal by young Walcott, whose movement created the space for Crouch.

Joe Cole deserves a bit of credit too.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 31 May 06 - 08:17 AM

"Come on Aussie, Come On, Come On!"

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:12 AM

Enjoyed the game, although Hungary weren't exactly top opposition they gave England a good work out. Lampard must feel a prat, but let's hope it's not foreshadowing. Peter Crouch. I don't know what to say. He's just ... wrong ... but ...?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:21 AM

Lampard must have felt a prat, but it is a misfortune suffered by many to muff a penalty. Justice was done though, because a better placed referee would have booked Steve Gerrard for the dive, which brought it about. You can't read too much into these warm up games. All the same, there did not look to be much wrong with David Beckham's dead ball kicking last night.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:33 AM

Yes, I think there can't be many better at the dead ball cross than Beckham. I think it could be particularly effective when Crouch is the obvious distraction and Owen is scuttling through the undergrowth. Beckham's precision is up there with Liam Brady from the 70s Arsenal side. He could drop the ball on a sixpence 40 yards away whilst in motion.

The consensus now is that Sven's choice against Jamaica will be the one to start against Paraguay. I still have difficulty figuring the bloke out ...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: GUEST,quarcoo
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:35 AM

soccer is getting so serious these days that for me the game is losing its flavour.

who knows,very soon we might have cloned players,because i just couldn't that rooney is going to be put in a "oxygyen room".(correct me if i am wrong) but can't the guy be allowed to recover naturally.

i hope my country Ghana does well and good luck to all the teams.

Quarcoo.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 11:54 AM

They had tried an oxygen chamber to assist with his recovery but it only lasted twenty minutes. He didn't like it so they stopped.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 31 May 06 - 12:03 PM

I can't remember a time when football wasn't taken very seriously. I think it goes back to the time when Peter Dimmock used to introduce Grandstand. In those days, they didn't have the technology for actually showing sport, so they used to fill the half hour with posh gits in suits talking bollocks in a very self important fashion.

It was a bit like the Radio 4 Today programme, only not so light hearted.

A sports programme with no sport in it. Only the English would have stood for it. Its wonder they didn't make us queue up in our own houses to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 12:04 PM

It's a popular (though unproven) therapy with injured hockey players over here in Canada and the US. The theory is that an oxygen-rich environment helps speed up the body's natural healing process. I believe they took a 'it can't do any harm' approach but as Den says, Rooney didn't care for it at all and they stopped it.

Quarcoo, I'm looking forward to seeing Ghana in action. Good luck!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: alanabit
Date: 31 May 06 - 12:16 PM

All the signs are that Rooney will not be there. He got the injury less than a month ago. A similar injury much longer before the last World Cup afflicted Beckham last time around. Michael Owen had a similar injury just before Christmas. It will be a near thing even for him to get back to the required fitness level in time.
I recall the team of 1986 performing better once they had faced the fact that their talisman of the day (Bryan Robson) was not going to play any further part in the proceedings. It is a blow not having the most exciting striker in the country available, but we do not have a God given right to expect two world class strikers to be available all the time. Portugal 2004 ought to have cured us of that vanity. Indeed, it is very rare for any team manager to have all of their first choice players fit at any one time. Eight or nine fit and in form is a good hand.
At the end of the day, England has the best set of players available since I have followed football. If they all suddenly come into form and gel as a team at the same time, (as happened in 1990)great things could happen. They will need luck, the right weather and to develop that extra something, which turns good players into great teams. That can happen over the course of a tournament. There will be no way of saying how likely that is until the latter stages of the tournament. Let's hope England are there!

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 06 - 01:04 PM

McGrath : "As for gnu's suggestion that a defining characteristic of Irish players is thuggery, that's rubbish."

I agree. That IS rubbish. I never said it or even suggested it. I said I thought the Ruskies (Belarus) were deliberately out to injure the England players and Keane and Rooney would have given them back a taste of their own medicine... as I have seen both of them do in the past.

I called the Ruskies thugs. I call Keane and Rooney fine players who don't take no shit from no man.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 01:32 PM

I agree with Kevin that thuggery is not a defining characteristic of Irish players (quite the opposite), but I wouldn't be so quick to exclude the trait from Roy Keane. However, I would not tell him to his face. ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 31 May 06 - 02:05 PM

The majority of Irish footballers relied on skill, Blanchflower, McIroy,
Best,Duff, Eglington,and numerous others, I don`t doubt Roy Keanes ability as player, but he was undoubtely a thug.
I noticed a dive by Gerrard for England`s penalty, never a mention from the one-eyed TV commentator Jogn Motson, he of course mentioned the Hungarian goalkeepers movement before he saved the penalty, Terry Butcher the former England player castigated Gerrard for the dive.
Motson is one very good reason we are thankful for having Irish TV for the World Cup.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 02:53 PM

Motson's not my fave commentator either. He got his 'big break' commenting on the early 70s match between Newcastle and non-league Hereford when the minnows beat the giants. He must have referenced the game a thousand times since. Very grating for a Toon fan like myself.

On the other hand, what about Ireland's 'Old-Onion-Bag' Smithy? How would you like to be trapped in a room with the two of them? ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 02:58 PM

Keane a thug? Now lads that's a bit strong. How about intense, can we compromise?

The Hungarian keeper can move to his heart's content as long as its laterally along the goal line. Gerrard should be ashamed of himself. Does he have no understanding of the concept friendly.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 04:29 PM

I might be alone in this but I'm fairly sure Gerrard was clipped. I taped the game and have watched the incident a dozen times. As an expert of the Francis Lee School of Getting a Bogus Penalty, I can assure you the body language didn't indicate a classic dive. That's not to say he didn't clip ,i.himself mind ...

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 31 May 06 - 04:38 PM

Have you been talking to Motson?.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 05:28 PM

Only once, in the social club at Airesome Park in 1975 ... what did he have to say about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 31 May 06 - 06:16 PM

My favourite "Keane" of all times was late one game when the lads were down by a goal. A throw-in, to be taken by Keane, was delayed because one of the opposition kicked the ball away from him, off the pitch, as he about to pick it up. He received another ball and promptly threw it as hard as he possibly could, perhaps harder due to the circumstances, and nailed the offender kitty-corner in the side of the head as he was walking away. Lovely red card, in my opinion. But, I am of Irish decent.

For those that would say it was a sillyenalty, given the lack of time left in the game, I might agree. On the other hand, given that the offender was not penalized and time was not added for obvious poor sportsmanship and for delay, I might have considered nailing the ref. After all, not only am I of Irish decent, I am also Canadian.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 06:26 PM

The incident you are referring to Gnu was a game against Newcastle United and the one he nailed with the ball was Saint Alan Shearer who would have to shoot someone to be sent off and the referee would still have to confer with his assistants. You're memory of events is close to being right. There was about three minutes left in the game United were down. Keane went to take a throw-in and as he brought his arms back to throw the ball Shearer knocked it out of his hands. Whereupon Keane picked up the ball and nailed Shearer on the side of the head. Now why oh why if the referee is following the laws of the game. Why was Shearer not booked atleast?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 31 May 06 - 06:49 PM

Piss-poor memory both of you! Keene didn't throw the ball, or otherwise make contact. He got suckered into taking a swing, which Shearer stepped back from. One of my favourite red cards. Well deserved. ;o)

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 06:50 PM

There's footage here of the incident just after Shearer knocks the ball out of his hands. Like I said he's intense.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 06:57 PM

BPL between us we're right. He got the red card for taking a swing at Shearer. He did nail him with the ball though. But what about Shearers innocense in all of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 May 06 - 08:49 PM

I didn't take anything gnu wrote as intended to be anti-Irish, but that wasn't the point.

It all depends how you define thuggery. "A taste of their own medicine" would fall within my definition. It might sometimes be possible to excuse it as a weakness, but never to applaud it as a strength, let alone to present it as a national characteristic.

Being complimented for a fault can be worse than an insult. Doubly so when you don't actually have that fault - and I would think that Roy Keane is about as characteristically Irish in this as he was in his petulent treachery when he let Ireland down so badly by deserting his teammates.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 31 May 06 - 09:31 PM

Yeah but McGrath that's kind of how we're portrayed in the media. You know "fighting spirit" and all that. "The lucky Irish, we're just glad to be here".

I think that was Keane's point and takes into account his fight with McCarthy. We're here because we qualified, we're not here to make up the numbers. We're a team that has to be beaten.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 12:34 PM

Talking of great Irish players, remember Kevin Sheedy? He could make the flight of the ball bend really dramatically. I never saw anybody do that as well as him.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 01:12 PM

Portrayed in the media? That would include being drunk, dirty, stupid, murderous and unreliable. Wouldn't it be a great idea to try to live up to that sparkling image?

As for Roy Keane - he did his best to to make sure that the Irish team would be beaten. Never to be trusted again, I hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 01:39 PM

Yes he certainly let down the Irish team in their hour of need, and I can recall that vicious assault on Alf Harrland of Man City, Alf still removing Keane`s toe-nails from his shattered knee.    Saint` elbows` Shearer another player who could dish it out but whinged when he had a taste of his own medicine, he got away with kicking Neil Lennon in the face and met his match when he tangled with Grimsby`s sentre half, who could forget his crying to the ref after taking a well aimed elbow.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 02:17 PM

I feel I have to defend Keane somewhat again. Have any of you read his interview with the Irish Times or seen his interview on RTE. McCarthy accused him of feigning injury after the first play-off game against Iran, in front of the whole team. That was when the dam burst and the rest is history. Keane has maintained if his talk with McCarthy had taken place privately none of this would have happened.

The Irish team flew coach to Japan while officials from the FAI sat in first class. When they got to their training camp there was no equipment. No balls, no uniforms, no boots and none of the specially made fluids that they needed to drink to help them acclimatize. The training pitch itself was in a disgraceful condition. Hard as a rock and patchy grass. McCarthy hadn't even checked into the training pitch before they left Ireland. When the equipment eventually arrived two days later. In the meantime some of the players had been out partying because there was nothing to do. McCarthy hadn't called for a curfew. Keane said he wasn't pleased with that either but he was willing to give those players a break.

Three players injured themselves on the first day of training because of the pich surface. Keane said he felt it was his duty as captain of the team to speak out and he talked to McCarthy privately about it. He said McCarthy's attitude seemed to be "oh well we got here lets have a bit of fun". Keane said that this seemed to be the overall attitude of the staff and officials. He said that wasn't good enough for him. He felt that the Irish team deserved to be there and that they could compete. He said he was there to win. He was interviewed over the phone by a reporter from the Irish Times and spoke candidly about the shoddy conditions the players had to endure. McCarthy read the interview took acception called a players meeting and made his accusations to Keane.

Now do you think that that is the way the England team eg would prepare for the world cup? Do you think they'd fly coach? No they fly on a private jet. Do you think that Erickson would have his players train on a pitch that hadn't been closely scrutinized months in advance?

Since Keane's outburst things have certainly changed at the FAI so much so that he came out of retirement to play for Brian Kerr.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:15 PM

So how many players followed Keane home?.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: gnu
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:32 PM

McGrath... Point well made. Thank you for clarifying. I understand your point of view. I agree that "stooping to another's level" degrades oneself. I agree that generalizations are just outright wrong.

On the other hand, I also believe that one should never allow another to take advantage, bully or injure. The fact that Keane and others have sometimes taken on the role of what we Canucks call, in the game of ice hockey, an "enforcer", I applaud. Of course, I do not speak on the part of anyone else, and my inference was incorrect and untoward. My apologies.

I realize that I have said what may appear to be conflicting statements regarding "stooping" and "enforcing". I believe they are not in conflict. It is one thing to "stoop" and clearly another to "stop".

Anyway, I hope I haven't offended anyone too much. I am looking forward to some exciting football. I just hope the ref'ing staff stay on top of things.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 03:39 PM

How many of them were called liars by McCarthy?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 04:24 PM

OK, I won't have a word said against McCarthy ... he did a bang up job at Sunderland! ;o)

The refereeing should be good, gnu, as the officials are all seasoned fellas. The problems is they are seasoned in leagues of vastly differing quality so there will inevitably be some cock-ups. I suppose each of us will find fault with the bastard that gives a crappy decision against our team.

There's usually an over-the-top enforcement of rules in the first round, just to show everyone they'll not be f*cked about with, then they relax a bit in the later stages.

The Irish lads will remember the ref booking Jack Charlton (the Ireland coach) for giving a mouthful to the fourth official. Classic Jack.

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 05:48 PM

Even if all that was true, and if there wasn't any other side to it, it wouldn't excuse Roy Keane deserting his team. And how can anyone trust the word of a man who would do that?

Subject: RE: BS: Football World Cup 2006
From: Den
Date: 01 Jun 06 - 06:42 PM

He didn't desert the team McCarthy sent him home.