Paying to audition - is this normal?

Subject: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Marion
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 01:14 PM

Hello all.

Somebody who is a active figure in the local pub open mike scene is organizing a TV special to air on a local cable station - sort of a showcase of the area's open mike denizens.

It costs $20 to audition to be on the show, which I'm a little surprised at. Maybe it's to help pay for the production costs, but then wouldn't it be more fair to just ask the people who get in to contribute? Or maybe it's to make sure only "serious" musicians audition.

I'm not asking your advice on whether I should audition - I've already decided, for other reasons, not to - but I would like to know if an audition fee is normal in your experience or if you'd see it as a warning light (sort of like paying to get your poem in some anthology).

Thanks, Marion

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 01:17 PM

........or to have your nob waxed.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 01:33 PM

Sounds a bit of a scam!!

Kris

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 01:35 PM

Can't say as I've ever heard of this one.

Steve

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Gary T
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 02:15 PM

I'm not familiar with how this would normally be done, but it smells fishy to me. I assume there's no compensation for appearing in the TV production, so I see it as paying for the privilege of being considered for the opportunity to play for free. Being on a local cable station isn't quite the same break as getting on the Tonight Show.

Oh, by the way, I'm accepting application fees from anyone who's interested in doing volunteer work. Just send me the money, I'll let you know if any openings arise.

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: SeanM
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 02:28 PM

Big ol' warning light on that one.

Any time I've ever heard of having to pay for an audition, placement, agency fees or what have you - it's a scam. A few locations have managed to institutionalize the scam as "pay to play", but just to AUDITION?

Run. Very far. Very fast.

M

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 02:33 PM

Absolutely not!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: curmudgeon
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 02:35 PM

There's one booking agent around these parts who charges a $10 audition/tape listening fee. He's also the same agent who wanted me to do an afternoon of Irish music in a club with a mechanical bull. In the 20+ years I've known him he's come up with four gigs -- two good ones, a freebie, and one from Hell, not counting the Bull.

Good songs to all -- Tom

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 02:44 PM

It seems to me that the people who are good enough to play these places would take a great big pass on this one and play places that aren't run by scam artists. This would leave the ones who haven't been good enough to make the cut to pay the $20. Chances are, they would then be told that they weren't good enough even after paying their $20. I hate scammers.

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 02:48 PM

Paying to audition, eh? Sounds phishy to me.
Jim

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 02:56 PM

Well, it's about time. This is an idea whose time has come. Just great. Sure, any time they get an idea as good as this one, I'll sign up immediately. I'll let 'em pay me to audition any old time they want to.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: M.Ted
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:01 PM

Marion,

Sounds like a scam--pure and simple--Reminds me of something I ran into years ago--I drove a friend, an aspiring dancer, to one of these auditions--there were beauty pagent runnerups and tap-dancing children, aspiring nightclub singers, and graduates of every sort of voice and dance and talent school--many with clip books, publicity photos, press kits, and, age appropriate stage-mothers--Everybody was glad to tell you how talented they(or their children) were, how they had cheated out of opportunities in rigged talent shows, in biased auditions, by a show business industry that was afraid of real talent---

The promoters were amazed by the talent--on occasion, they stopped the auditions to renew their pledge to force the entertainment industry to take notice of the wonderful and gifted performers who had turned out for the audtions--After hours of sitting, each performer (and, where appropriate, their family representative) was taken into the back, praised to the heavens, given the opportunity of a lifetime and warned that their were many jealous individuals who would fight to keep them from success--My friend, mercifully, was too broke to play the game, but most of the people who came in with us signed up-- and the audition fees were just the beginning!

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:13 PM

I'm with Art on this one! Sign up now. To hell with just music, how 'bout paying for my opinions......on anything. Lets see now, how 'bout:

Baseball....$5

Politics....$5

F chords....$6

Organized Religion...$2

Paying to audition....well, let's negotiate.

Now of course you could go to one of them "discout opinion services" that Catspaw runs, but he probably hires out Cletus at fifty cents an hour.

Seriously Marion, the folks that pay for that can't be very confident in their music.

Rick

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:26 PM

Tell them they don't have to pay you, you only want a fair shot at the gig.

Don

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Steve Latimer
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:27 PM

So it's from a different field, but a valuable lesson. I once read an interview with Mike Liut, a long time goaltender in the National Hockey League. As a teenager he was torn between accepting a University Scholarship and playing Major Junior Hockey. At this point in hockey history approximately 95% of all NHL players had played Major Junior hockey and going to play University hockey in the U.S. was pretty much thought of as giving up on your dream of making the big time in exchange for a free education.

He was leaning towards the Major Junior route, which at that time usually meant that you had to drop out of school due the schedule. He was discussing it with his father who was in favour of the scholarship route. His dad finally said to him, "Son, if you're good enough, they'll find you". That convinced him to go the university route and of course his dad was right.

I think this advice applies to most things.

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:40 PM

I recently rented the movie "Bowfinger" in which Steve Martin (who also wrote the script) plays a sleazy, low-rent film director who will do anything for a buck, or to save a buck. He charges actors to audition for him!

It's a good movie. I highly recommend it.

But I never expected life to imitate art to this extent.

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Marion
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:49 PM

Wow, this is one of the most unanimous threads ever! So I can't resist offering a dissenting voice.

Whenever you play for free, aren't you effectively paying to play? After all, it costs you time, energy, maybe gas money or parking or babysitting, wear on your strings and so on.

If you're volunteering because of the cause (a benefit, or for the happiness of the audience) you could be said to be making a donation. And if you're volunteering because you want the exposure, you are in a sense buying the exposure, although the costs you incur are more subtle than handing some cash over to the organizer.

I ask this because the same day I got a call asking if I wanted to audition for this TV thing, I got a call from my sister asking if I would play violin in her church sometime. Thing is, going to her church would involve about four hours on the road. So the question before me is whether I'm willing to pay that amount of time and gas to play there, which is not totally unlike the question of whether I'm willing to pay for the TV audition, though it certainly seems less crass.

Marion

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Fortunato
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:50 PM

Sing with/for your family and friends. Join a session, record your music and share it. Travel to the festivals, jam and share. But boycott those people, Marion. Clearly they serve themselves, not the music.

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:53 PM

PLAYING............$25.00/Hour
NOT PLAYING........$45.00/Hour
AUDITIONING........$30.00/Hour
NOT AUDITIONING....$50.00/Hour
PRACTICING.........$45.00/Hour
NOT PRACTICING.....$95.00/Hour

Spaw

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: sc
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 03:55 PM

guess somebody needs to do the devil's advocate thing. so when one elects to 'audition' for some very well known events, there is indeed a fee. Seems like they charge ya a thirty dollar fee to audition via tape to play free at the Kerrville Folk Festival NewFolk concerts. I suspect the same is true at Newport. But this is certainly not the same as a penny-ante cable program.

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Marion
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 04:02 PM

I'm confused, Spaw: is that what you charge for your services, or what you pay people to put up with them?

I wonder how much Kendall paid to be on the Tonight show.

Marion

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 04:03 PM

Nearly all of my playing is playing for free and I don't view it as paying to play. I do of course want to get enjoyment out of it which to me is a good atmosphere, no real pressure to perform and fun with the people there - and of course the odd pint of beer helps...

I get nothing out of people just listening to me, paid or otherwise - I'm just do it once in a while, usually with someone else as I hate doing that sort of thing alone as I feel too exposed . I just do it for the craic.

Jon

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 04:08 PM

I should clarify my nothing. I'm not pretending I don't like applause, just it rarely compensates for the nerves, etc. I am feeling.

Jon

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 04:46 PM

It's wrong. Please don't do it. An audition is not an item that should be for sale. If we set this precedent, it could be very damaging for anyone who desires a career in music.

Also, as a practice, it's indefensible.

Frank

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 05:18 PM

sc - Is this fee applied to name groups like Doc Watson, Dan Crary, or to unknowns that are competing for the space?

Steve

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: sc
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 05:53 PM

Steve, this fee is to audition for the NewFolk Concerts. It is not the main show events. Peter Yarrow originated the Newfolk concerts to provide exposure for deserving performers that are not so well known. Many have turned the tide and went on to become well know songwriters and entertainers after winning the Newfolk competitions. So while there is an audition fee, there is so much to gain.

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: SeanM
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 09:44 PM

The only reason any place gets away with charging to audition is because WE let them. No matter how much 'exposure' they give, to charge just for the 'privelege' of auditioning is WRONG.

Paying to play is a fight for another day. But if enough people politely informed these 'shows' precisely what could be done with their audition fees, then they'd go away - either the fees, or after enough time, the shows.

M

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: sc
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:00 PM

Sean, ain't that what you're doin when ya take an add in the paper to sell your home or your car? You know ya got a good product and you're tryin' to get it out in front of the people who may be interested in buyin' it and it don't matter if it costs you a little bit. Unless, of course it's junk and you know it won't sell.

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:01 PM

I used to belong to the Central New York Bluegrass Association. Each month they would have a Jamboree and it cost $4.00 to attend . The price was to raise money for the CNYBA as operating capital. A price I would pay. Then I was asked to perform at the next show which I said I would. The next Jamboree i went to the gate to play and I said who I was. They checked the performers list and saw I was there. I said great. They said $4.00 please. After a moment of contemplation I paid and then I played.

I played because I was advertised and on the list. I played because friends came from out of town. And I played because I was prepared. But when I finished I questioned the policy with the CNYBA Pres. He said everyone pays because they just do. I asked if it didn't cheapen the music and the art I was willing to give away to a worthy cause by asking for money on top of it? I told him i spend twice that on Coffee, Oatmeal cookies, and cheese cake. He said everyone pays.

I will give away my time because I choose to. I will donate jewelry because I am glad to help a cause. But I will not pay to play a benefit because I'm told too. If the benefit is worthy enough I'm likely to donate more than the entry fee anyway. But to require me to pay to play for free cheapens what I do.

Don

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:04 PM

The Chicago Bears picked Cade McNoun as a first round pick. Then they wined and dined him to the hilt and paid him extra millions of dollars to "please come and audition for us????!!!"

He failed in his "audition". I.E. his playing stunk up the place. Then they had to get rid of the guy.

But he got to keep the cash. WHAT A COUNTRY !!!

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Mark Clark
Date: 09 Oct 01 - 10:34 PM

Marion, I think the reasonableness of the audition fee depends on what they'll charge to actually perform. Say the fee to perform is $200, well the audition fee is a full 10% of the performance price. Now suppose they wanted to charge you $2,000 to actually appear on the program, well then the audition fee is only 1% of the performance charge... hardly worth worrying about.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: SeanM
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 01:19 AM

I don't see the connection between paying for an audition and paying to advertise, to be honest. Paying to advertise IS part of the game - but it's a part that results in benefit to you, the band. Paying just to audition is being asked to surrender money without ever being certain you're going to get something in return. Last time I checked, that was called "gambling", not "musicianship".

As to paying the door fee - for me, it would depend on the event. I've worked an event where they charged us all the door fee - then demanded that we not mingle with the crowd afterwards, just head back to the green room until the next show. We raised a stink about it. If I'm paying the gate fee to be at a show, I'm damned well going to enjoy the benefits that the rest of the paying customers get.

I guess it comes down to how desperate you are. So far, I've managed to find enough places where at the most I was volunteering (though the Renaissance Faires I work at eat up a huge budget, that's from paying inflated camping fees and costumes), and usually getting at least a pittance (food, drinks, or money if it's a really nice gig) in return for my performance. Then again, I'm also not burning to be the next Doc, or the next Brittney Spears, or the next what have you - I'm happy to work in relative obscurity, as long as I perform and don't have to deal with too many indignities in doing so.

M

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 01:49 AM

It sounds like a rip off to me, a few years ago when I was out of work and skint, I saw an ad in the paper advertising for extras in tv shows and films, it said you could make loads of money and to send for a free information pack.I got the informatiom pack and it said I had to pay a 65 pounds registration fee, bollocks to that I thought as I threw my free info pack in the bin.

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 02:01 AM

If they can guarantee that you'll be on the show, and that you'll get plenty of paid gigs as a result, then pay. But get the promises in writing.

Seamus (who has never auditioned for anything, let alone paid for the "privilege.")

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 03:08 AM

There are lots of things we do for free, like benefits, jam sessions, and those other things that just have too many perqs to turn down, but auditioning is a different thing altogether. A very valid form of "paid" auditioning is the process that takes place regarding the Folk Alliance (and other similar) Showcases. You send them albums and money, and then hope they'll ask you to perform...for FREE! Many think it's worth it. Just as many (me included) don't. On the other hand, I do a folk music radio program for free (actually it costs me four bucks for parking every Monday night) for the last 14 years. What makes it worthwhile is that I've NEVER been told what to play (or more importantly what NOT to play). If I were on salary, I'd have to follow certain rules. That's a trade-off I can live with.

By the way marion (should have mentioned this in your other thread) Hugh's Room's open stage is a good way to get some Toronto notoriety, likewise the Free Times cafe. They don't pay...but they don't charge ya either.

Rick

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Grab
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 09:46 AM

Glad to hear you've decided not to do it, Marion.

On the advertising analogy, the advertising is you appearing on the show. But would you place an ad in a paper if they said, "You give us your money, we roll a couple of dice, and if we get a double-six then we'll post your advert"?

Graham.

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 10:55 AM

With the "audition fee" for every "deserving performer" who gets a chance, there are a couple hundred people who apply but are not good enough--so the promoters mostly take money from people they know will never even be considered--

SC, I would be really interested to know how many people that the New Folk operation gets money from, as opposed to how many they allow to play--The thing that kills me is the people who run these events are the same ones who complain about how crooked and corrupt the music business is--well, at least with Payola, when you pay, you get played--

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 12:52 PM

Any artist/craft type people around have to go through the same process to get into a "Juried" art show. It is a "subjective" way of sorting the wheat from the chaff. The public who then go to the show are then assured of a certain level of quality. You, as an artist at the show can claim a level of expertise, in that you were accepted for the show. This means that you can probably charge more for your product, with the people attendind these shows probably being more inclined to spend money. I was trying to make my living this way a few years ago and paid my $35 Can. to hopefuly get into this one particular wholesale show. I was accepted, I then had to pay my booth fee, another fee for an electrical hook up, I did get free parking though and did not have to pay to get in. I then had the opportunity to display my work, which was well received and I took almost 5K in orders. So would I pay for an audition, in this case remembering 1) this is a totally subjective process, you are at he whim of whoever the judge is. 2) am I going to make a hell of a lot more money out of this opportunity. 3) Will my acceptance mean more prestige/ ability to charge more for my product (in this case music) 4) Is it going to present me to a receptive audience who might want to Book me or buy my CD's. In this case, I doubt that you are really getting more than any freebie anywhere in the world could get you. Sorry, I don't normally ramble this much in the written word. JohnB

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 01:41 PM

Observations of a geezer who has been around the block a few times:--

In reputable, professional auditions, (actors, dancers, opera singers, tuba players, folk singers, etc., etc.) the producers do not charge. Reputable producers realize that performers willing to audition for them are giving them the opportunity to chose from a talent pool, and they could reduce the size of that pool (and thereby miss a potential star-performer that would make their fortune for them) if they were to discourage people by asking them to pay to audition. In fact, I don't think it would even occur to a reputable producer to charge. Open, free auditions are a matter of rational self-interest on the part of producers. You could actually make a perfectly good argument that the producers should pay you for the opportunity to decide whether or not they want your services.

I would not audition for producers who charge to "let" performers audition, and I would spread the word to others to boycott them. The only times I sing without getting paid for it are:-- 1) at parties, hoots, song circles, some folk festivals (where everybody else is performing for free), or other events where I am having fun and I consider that to be my pay; 2) charitable events of my choice. I will not pay to perform, ever! And if someone else (other than a charitable organization) is making money because I'm performing, I must have some of it. [Nor do I submit any of my writing to publishers who charge a "reading fee." The vast majority of reputable publishers don't.]

I have confidence in my own abilities, and I refuse to grovel. This is not ego talking, it's a matter of self-respect -- and self-preservation. Believe me, there are plenty of opportunities to perform without pay, and I'm quite sure there would be many, many more if you were willing to pay to perform (or to audition). I learned that the hard way, way back when.

Charging you to audition is a rip-off.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: M.Ted
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 01:41 PM

Personally, I have a couple cousins that I called, and for a few bucks, they offered get me some bookings in AC or Vegas that pay real money--and they have some friends in Houston who would make those"friggin' nobodies at New Folk" an offer they couldn't refuse--I said, "Hey, you friggin' garbage brain! These are nice people, not those scum you hang around with!" And they said,"Shut up your face, are you friggin' Willie Nelson or what? A payoff is a payoff--a shakedown is a shakedown--take care of the judge and you don't need to worry about the jury!" I declined the offer, but I forward their comments, for what they are worth--

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 02:23 PM

John B.

I set up my jewelry at several shows each year. When I send in a booth and electrical fee it is to rent space. The one show that I have done where there is an application fee that is required with photos for the jury is added to the booth fee if accepted. If I am not accepted the $5.00 application fee is used to cover the postage and handling of my photos so they can be returned. If I rent the space I will run the risk of making a profit out of that space. It is certainly cheaper than owning a storefront.

I have never compared a booth fee to an audition fee before and I'll have to give it some serious consideration as I think about it. If I am donating my time for cause however I will not pay to do so.

Don

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 05:25 PM

It's a scam. I've heard of these kind of so-called "auditions" before. Crooks is what these people are.

Rick - I think you could get more than $2 for your religious opinions. Don't sell yourself cheap!

I am personally willing to provide auditioning opportunities for an introductory course at the WSSBA (William Shatner School of Bad Acting) for a mere $25 Canadian or $18 US. Now that, folks, is a DEAL!!! Just show up at Rombo's in Orillia any time, and talk to "Vinnie". :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: hesperis
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 10:42 PM

WHAT??! There's no "Vinnie" at Rombos... but wait... you said "Rombo's", didn't you? AHA! Hanging out with loose characters again, eh, Hawk?

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Justa Picker
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 11:21 PM

I will be providing a course on the fossilization of Jimmy Dean pure pork sausages, which when fossilized through my patented, accelerated process, provide excellent mantle decorations, paperweights, and male clothing enhancements.

There is no charge for the course, but you have to provide your own J.D's.


On a slightly more serious note, it absolute bullshit to PAY to audition for ANYTHING, especially when you are not being paid a dime to appear on a local cable show. The convenors of this show have got it all bass ackwards.

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Big Mick
Date: 10 Oct 01 - 11:55 PM

No, JP, they have it just right..............they know there are a bunch of saps that will help them to underwrite the folks that they really want to play.........its the saps who have it wrong.........package of JD's pure pork is on the way

Mick

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: sc
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 12:18 AM

Well folks, I have a lot of trouble believing all this negative attitude toward the New Folk Concerts. When ya cut a CD ya never know how well it's gonna sell but ya put the money out cause ya believe in yourself and your music. You don't question how much the studio and the duplicators and the engineers and the printers are making! So why do you question the promoters of the greatest folk festivals we have? By the way, the submission fee is only $16. (A Lot cheaper than a cutting a CD). They accept only the first 600 entries and they select thirty two acts to perform. There are awards, rewards and perks not to mention a very impressive bio entry for those selected. And the industry prestige associated with winning the event (and thus your future earning power) would certainly be more valuable than selling a few hundred CDs. So it's not exactly performing free and the main thing is that these events help propagate folk music to the masses and enrich us all in the process. Peace! -sc

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 12:28 AM

I was such a sap way back when I was maybe 22 or 23. This outfit in Toronto advertised as an agency that would help get gigs for local musicians. All you had to do was register with them, and describe the type of music you played (folk, rock, blues, klezmer, etc.). There were about 185,000 young musicians looking for a gig in Toronto at the time, so these guys hit a nerve. Registering cost...I don't remember...$20...$30...something like that. They registered hundreds and hundreds of musicians and bands, including me. Hell, they may have registered thousands, for all I know.

Did anyone get a gig? I don't know. Possibly a mere handful did, in order to provide a shred of legitimacy to this lousy scam. I know I didn't. I never even got a phone call. Nor did some friends of mine who were as gullible as me.

Scams are aimed at the hopeful and inexperienced. We live and learn.

Hesperis - Vinnie is NOT loose! Matter of fact, he's tight most of the time...it's his women who are loose. Sorry, I mispelled Rombos...I thought it hads an apostrophes, buts I shoulds haves noticeds thats the owners is a Greek! And so Rombos ends in "S" with no apostrophes. By gollies I won't makes that mistakes again!

- LH

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Marion
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 01:13 AM

Here's another example of an "audition fee" that seems more acceptable. To apply to the music therapy program at a university, you have to fill out an application form which includes "essay questions", do an interview, and perform an audition. And there is a fee to apply - I think around $50 is typical for universities.

Does this example seem unreasonable to you? It seems more reasonable to me, because the universities have to do the work of evaluating the application forms, conducting the interviews, and listening to the auditions.

Also, I think the cost of applying (the fee, and the bother involved in writing essays and arranging interview and audition) would serve to narrow down the number of applications, and that this could be in the university's interests. Only people who have a certain level of confidence in their skills and who think that they will probably enroll if accepted will be willing to go to the expense and trouble of applying - and it's in the university's interests to only have to process serious applications.

Marion

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 01:20 AM

sc, producing and promoting your own CD (or concert) and paying to let someone decide if they want you to sing or not are two entirely different things. I turned down plenty of "opportunities" back in the Sixties, and I did okay. I sang almost every weekend -- for pay. Coffeehouses and college concerts mostly (I made a living at it). I was offered numerous "opportunities" of the "grease my palm and I'll make you a national star" sort and not one of them ever led anyone anywhere.

Reputable producers don't ask you to pay them, they pay you. That's kinda basic.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Paying to audition - is this normal?
From: Marion
Date: 11 Oct 01 - 01:24 AM

And I think sc and Rick have a point about there being some situations where paying to audition might be more acceptable - where the potential reward (getting to play to a large audience of good connections at a more respected venue) makes the gamble of the entrance fee seem worth it.

The situation I described in my initial post, on the other hand, is clearly not worth it - a 15 minute slot on a small cable company's show isn't a very big deal, unless one is star-struck by the prospect of being on TV. I'm not, and this isn't something I'd be interested in doing right now, even if it didn't have a fee. But if it were a gig that I really wanted, I'd probably be able to rationalize gambling an audition fee on it.

Marion, more interested in getting good than in getting discovered