BS: The Drugging of our Children

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 31 Oct 10 - 07:15 PM

There is increasing research showing that most of our health problems can be directly attributed to toxins in the environment.

A close friend eliminated her own bi-polar symptoms by eating good quality food.

Her son was poisoned by an organophosphate in school and became learning disabled as a result.

She has studied and learned how to help people de-tox and get their lives back - her son and I are two of her first line successes. Without her help I would still be a couch potato - or dead. Another close friend would still be in bed most of everyday instead of being able to lose 50 pounds, work outside the home and have a life. Clear the toxins, clear the body and mind - and spirit!

Read - Why David hated Tuesdays.

Watch - Waiting for Superman - I was on the verge of tears throughout - I wrote a paper on that addressed many of these issues in 1971.

I have seen kids damaged by the schools - bad teachers and toxic buildings. Toxic environments clearly cause behavioural problems - and then the kids are further damaged by being punished for the behaviour caused by the failure of the school, or parents, to provide a safe environment.

Is this an over simplification? Look for the research yourselves. It is crystal clear for anyone willing to see it.

We are allowing our children and ourselves to be made ill and, sometimes, behaviourally dangerous as long as we allow our governments to continue to allow the multinationals to pollute our air and water.

Often the first sign of environmental poisoning is anger. I have experienced it in myself and learned to avoid as much as possible but the toxins are omnipresent.

And, yes, our education needs to address the needs of each individual and not just the 20% who fit the system.

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 03:27 AM

yes to what Dorothy is saying..

toxins in the food and the surroundings. When I was in school the desks were made of wood.

What kind of chemical cocktail is in MDF? Phenol formaldehyde in there definitely. What is in carpet fibre and upholstery now? In some nonflammable clothing. All baby clothes are treated.

The sheets we sleep on too. I always wash a new set of sheets and pillow cases 5 to 6 times before using.

We do not use those plug in air fresheners. What kind of mix in smelly shampoos, bath gel, body lotion?

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 01 Nov 10 - 04:44 AM

And all day long under fluorescent lights...often trapped in classrooms with vast window space, letting in the burning sun..and many windows in schools aren't opened very much for 'health and safety' reasons ('cos they worry about the kids falling out, or throwing themselves out?)

In Sidmouth College the poor things even have to ask *permission* before they can remove their hot, synthetic, sweat-inducing blazers, or overly warm jerseys... ?????

The sooner we throw out all bloody control freaks from schools, the better.

If these sorts of things took place in offices, there'd be an outrage, but apparently, our children have to be 'trained' to be 'obedient'...

Knickers! to that loads of b*llsh*t!

The sooner we start LIKING our children, showing them respect, thought, kindness and compassion, the sooner it will start being returned by the children towards their teachers..and the sooner they will WANT to learn as much as they can, rather than being *forced* to learn things they have no interest in.

But to end up drugging kids who sometimes are simply playing up, bigtime, because they are bored rigid and fumingly angry at being controlled or treated in such an appalling way, is just beyond belief..and it shows how 'toxic', to use Dorothy's excellent word, the entire school system has become in many places.

I do however appreciate that there are some great schools out there, but it's my belief they are, sadly, very much in the minority)

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 06:48 PM

more Ken Robinson on the ADHD epidemic

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Kent Davis
Date: 05 Nov 10 - 10:42 PM

There are many excellent points in this thread. However, some posters seem to think that ritalin and similar drugs SEDATE children. They do not. They are not, and indeed cannot, be used to sedate. Ritalin and similar drugs are stimulants. There is an idea that they work as stimulants in "normal" people, but sedate people with ADHD. This idea is false. They work as stimulants in everyone.

Why then do people THINK that they sedate? Because under-stimulated people behave a lot like over-stimulated people.

Here's a thought experiment for you:

Imagine that you are driving alone, late at night, through western Kansas. The road is straight. There are few other cars on the road. You are seriously under-stimulated. Your attention wavers. A couple of times, you weave across into the other lane. What do you do?

You fidget in your seat. You roll the car window up. You roll it back down. You turn the radio on. You change stations. You turn it the radio way up. You turn it off and start singing. You sing louder. You begin dancing in your seat. You are trying to relieve your under-stimulantion. If other people could see you, they would say that you were hyperactive. If they saw how you were weaving about, they would say you were inattentive. Up ahead, you see a truck stop. You pull in and buy a cup of stimulant (coffee). You drive away, not weaving, not fidgeting, no longer under-stimulated. What just happened?

You had been tired, bored, and sleepy to the point that you developed a (temporary) deficit of attention. You treated the deficit with a stimulant. That is what stimulants do for under-stimulated, inattentive people. That is how ritalin works.

It does not sedate.   

Kent

P.S.

So why not treat ADHD with coffee or tea? I DO treat ADHD with coffee or tea. It is sometimes hard to get the dose right (too much of any stimualant increases anxiety, and increased anxiety decreases one's attention span), but caffeine often helps. So does good nutrition, a balanced diet, plenty of exercise, and an enriched (but not chaotic) environment. Avoiding toxins helps. Homeschooling, if done right, is practically curative. I have found, however, that sometimes I have to prescribe a stimulant.

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 02:06 AM

Er - children (and other animals) DO have to be trained to be obedient. The failure to do this is the root of the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Kent Davis
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 02:45 AM

Richard Bridge,

Yes, children do need to be trained to be obedient.

There are some children who become rebellious because they are frustrated by their own failures, and those failures are sometimes caused by impaired attention. Improving the attention span of those children can help them succeed, thereby reducing their frustration, and indirectly reducing their rebelliousness.

Other children have rebelliousness and inattention as two separate issues. Improving their attention problem just makes them better-focused rebels.

This past afternoon I had a 9-year-old patient who wouldn't listen to her father, unless her mother was at home. He thought she needed a medication adjustment. I had to point out that, if she obeyed her mother, and obeyed him when her mother was around, then the problem was not her attention span, and the solution was not medical.

Some people forget that ADHD is an impairment of attention, not an impairment of obedience.

Kent

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 04:05 AM

"You had been tired, bored, and sleepy to the point that you developed a (temporary) deficit of attention. You treated the deficit with a stimulant. That is what stimulants do for under-stimulated, inattentive people. That is how ritalin works."

Maybe you're just bored at school because it's boring? I have absolutely no interest in learning *anything* which does not interest me. I literally just switch off and take my mind somewhere else, inside my head...

Richard, children need to be taught that obedience is only good if those who are trying to bring about obedience have your best interests at heart, respect, care and love for you.

Any other form of 'obedience training' should be questioned by everyone on the planet....but it won't be, because SO many are now SO 'obedient' to their Corporate Obedience Masters who've had this one sussed for many a long year...

Children should also be trained in Rebellion so that they understand where and when to use it, because hell, are they going to need THAT in years to come!

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 04:15 AM

"I have absolutely no interest in learning *anything* which does not interest me. I literally just switch off and take my mind somewhere else, inside my head..."

THat is why you are a waste of space.

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 04:56 AM

Society depends on diligence, perseverance, and responsibility for its functioning. It's no wonder you can't keep a job.

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 05:09 AM

>>>> Me: "I have absolutely no interest in learning *anything* which does not interest me. I literally just switch off and take my mind somewhere else, inside my head..."

Richard:"THat is why you are a waste of space. <<<<<


5 Down - 4 Across :0)

Quite the opposite...it's why I'm so happy, most of the time, because I have nothing to prove to anyone. If I ain't interested, I ain't interested and that's that. If I am, then...I WANT to learn..

Part of the reason so many kids are being drugged to their eyeballs is so they can no longer disrupt a class of 'good obedient mind-controlled children' purely because they're simply bored out of their brains by being FORCED to learn things they don't want to, in hot, stuffy classrooms, where they're supposed to sit down for the majority of the day, when the whole point of being YOUNG is that you're fit, healthy and very, very active....

School is still based, in many instances, upon Victorian outlooks of 'Children should be seen but never heard!'

It was a bullying, cold, unloving concept back then, it is even more so today when you'd expect us to have moved forwards. But nope, it's 'business as usual' in most schools...and that's about 'control' rather than mutual respect and far more laid back methods of learning..

Chill out...

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 09:13 PM

I tried to drug mine somewhere but they gotted away!

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Smokey.
Date: 06 Nov 10 - 11:49 PM

Harrumph.. waste of good drugs..

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 06:41 PM

Lizzie, what can you actually do that is useful? Saying "pretty sky, pretty flowers" really is even less use than picking up dole money and smoking crack.

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 08:22 PM

"Lizzie, what can you actually do that is useful? Saying "pretty sky, pretty flowers" really is even less use than picking up dole money and smoking crack."


Well, I'm quite 'useful' for getting you to show yourself up all the time. ;0)

I was saying that many children are being drugged up to the eyeballs because they simply don't give a darn about scientific math or the in's and out's of grimmer grammar or some other subject which they have no interest in.

I have a mind that thinks very differently to yours, (phew!), but that does not make me better or worse than you, simply 'different'.

I would not expect you to be interested in the way the sun is shining on the leaves, or the colour of flowers, or the beauty in someone's wrinkles, yet you expect me to be interested in all that YOU are interested in.

Why?

I understand that many children NEED to wriggle and jiggle and giggle.
You, I think, do not.

I understand that children are not meant to sit down all day long...let alone study, study, STUDY!

I understand that we are all born free and have the right to remain so throughout our lives.

You feel, I believe, that we are put on this earth to be 'obedient' and the earlier we learn to be so, the better.

I realise that many children who have no interests in certain subjects whilst at school, often go on to revel in those subjects at a later date, once they're freed from the constant stress and strains of exams, which turn so many kids off learning.

Chances are, you'd advise, were you my teacher, that I should be drugged to the eyeballs because I do not agree with you, nor obey you, nor show interest in the things you love.

That does not make you right.

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 05:34 AM

I don't care what you are interested in Lizzie. Do what needs to be done, whether you are interested or not. Can you not get it through your head that duty diligence and perseverance are necessary for life? Have you never read or heard "The ant and the grasshopper"? You think that you are entitled to attend to what interests you and to ignore the rest. That way cuddly little animals die in the Serengeti.

I would not waste drugs on you. I'd simply expel you.

Incidentally, I don't believe we were "put on this earth". We just happen to be here, and we need to make what we can of ourselves. Wasting the opportunity to learn greatly reduces your chances of an enjoyable life later on. Irresponsibility usually comes back to bite you on the bum.

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 06:06 AM

But I don't waste the opportunities to learn. That's the entire point your missing. What *wastes* opportunities, and is causing untold distress to many children and young people is this crazy idea that you must *force* people, for instance, to be a scientist, when every bone in their body belongs to an artist...

If a child is able to learn the things that interest them, they will take off in many ways, bringing in all other forms of learning about so much else along the way.

By 'forcing' you are turning off the *natural* instinct of learning that we are all born with.


"I don't care what you are interested in Lizzie..."

No, I'm well aware that you don't. I however know that law, legal matters come naturally to you..as does the pedantic mind which is able to retain so many facts and figures.

Sadly, so often, those kinds of minds are also unable to understand that not all brains light up in the same areas that theirs do.

And so, intolerance occurs....

And the emotional, creative people, who's brains are EQUALLY as important, are battered and bruised, both verbally and emotionally, by brains that cannot feel empathy, and refuse to believe anyone but their own minds.

That damage is so often seen in angry children, disruptive children...who go on to become the alcoholics, the drug addicts, the homeless, the Big Issue sellers....and yet many of them have the most creative, incredible imaginations...

When they are taught by teachers with similar brain patterns, they thrive..because each brain pattern understands the other...and so their teacher encourages them in the arts, in writing, in reading, in music, sport and dance, because they understand where the strengths of those people lie.

Many geniuses are written off by their teachers....because they already think for themselves, way beyond the capacity and ability that their teacher may have. They also wriggle, jiggle and sometimes giggle..and probably are pretty much a real pain in the arse to 'teach' and 'control'...and so they get expelled...or these days, drugged up to calm their minds down, purely because the very people who deem themselves to be MORE intelligent than others, cannot cope with minds that race ahead of theirs and who are not interested in knowing things which their teacher may literally LIVE for.

Perhaps it's time to climb down from your Chair of Arrogance?

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 06:27 AM

Here ya go, take a listen to this man...a man who could only keep his world 'still' by moving all the time, much to the huge annoyance of his teachers...

Of course, he couldn't read either, so he was called a retard, and he went through absolute hell at school....

The man is a genius, of course.

Ron Davies on Dyslexia


We are *still* not fully aware, not fully understanding, not fully WILLING to believe that we are ALL different....and the dreaded National Curriculum which demands that all learn the same things, pretty much at the same time, throughout the USA and the UK is doing terrible damage to many wonderful, beautiful young people...and I mean 'Beauty' of the Soul.

Ron Davies again - A Little of his Story - Part 1

Richard Branson on being dyslexic, how he had no understanding of school whatsoever, how he'd have failed IQ tests..AND...listen to him say that if he's not interested in something, then he simply cannot grasp learning about it..

Trust me, Richard, THAT is EXACTLY what happens inside the mind of many people..I am one of those people...That does not make any of us Dumb.

Listen again to him telling the story of how he never understood the difference between 'net' and 'gross' profits, until very recently, when an empathetic person told him to think of it in pictures...PICTURES!! You see, our minds think IN ***pictures***, we know no other way, I cannot imagine thinking in words, it's beyond my comprehension to do that, but...I UNDERSTAND that many people DO think that way..

Sir Richard Branson - TED talk about Dyselexia, ADD and ADHD


Just think, you'd have probably expelled Richard Branson as well as me.. :0)

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 11:08 AM

Lizzie, the ones who succeed despite "slanted intellects" are very very very very rare (and hugely frustrating to work with - I have had interactions with Branson: I bet you don't remember Virgin's music contracts with large nominal advances that often were less realised than hoped for - I'll say no more, there was litigation about a related expression). You do people no favours at all by letting them play in stead of working.

And I'm not a one-dimensional person - I didn't let myself be one. My first degree was in Mechanical Engineering, my second in Law - because I took the trouble to learn to do different things. I was captain of squash. I was the individual debating champion. I am (well, after a fashion) a musician. When I was at university people told me I was a dancer. I can cook a meal (an easy one), or fix a computer (well, sometimes). I can do lots of different things - because I bothered to, not because they came easily. I can't sew or knit - because I never bothered to. They'd be useful skills now, so maybe I should have bothered.

Don't make excuses.

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 11:17 AM

Sigh.........................

I give up, Richard.   You go your way then....but just remember, many folks out there have been severely damaged due to stunted, blinkered, arrogant outlooks, and that damage often lasts a lifetime...

What the fook is a 'slanted intellect', by the way?

Is it one which doesn't match up to your idea of what an 'intellect' should be, by any chance?

Yeah, geniuses are often hard to work with, ain't they...That's 'cos their minds are precision engines, working 24/7, no servicing ever needed, no oiling required...barely resting, thinking, thinking, thinking....way ahead of what you could even imagine, Richard...

Hey, go and watch Temple Grandin's inspirational TED talk called 'Why The World Needs Different Kinds of Brains'....you might just learn something........

.....but then again...... ;0)

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 11:30 AM

Actually, I think you'll find that LOADS of entrepeneurs failed miserably at school, couldn't wait to leave it and do their own thing...

My brother who's severely dyslexic, is going to leave a treasue map and a spade when he dies... Ha!   He tripled the size of his Somerset cottage, all paid for in cash...He can turn his hand to anything, restore anything back to its original state..Spends his time with those folks on rubbish dumps, picking through bits of this and that...They're all the same, can't read, can't write...

Ted, who used to be in charge of our local dump when we lived in Somerset couldn't sign the log book when he bought our old car, merely signed his X on the spot, but....Ted designed and built his own house, slap bang in the middle of the Somerset Levels, where foundations alone beggar belief...

Pig-ignorance has never impressed me, espcially when it comes from those who deem themselves well educated folks, who love blowing their own trumpets...whilst shoving damp cloths into the trumpets of others...

And nope, I've not inherited my brother's gift for making money, although I tend to regard it as a curse, 'cos it dominates his life somewhat, but...he's successful and happy with his lot...Each to their own..

But at school he was told, constantly, what an idiot he was, how lazy he was, because he wasn't interested. His mind was away with ancient coins, which he collected..rare books, junk shops and making a profit..and he did exactly that, right from when he was a little boy..

I've letters from us both, back home to Mum and Dad, when we stayed up in Wales with our grandparents....He was around 9, I was around 6. His letters were very formal, filled with facts about the coins he'd bought, how much he'd paid for them, how much he hoped to sell them for etc...what he was looking for next..My letters were filled with Paddington Bear, what he and I had been up to on our holidays (steady boys!)..and fun, humour and excitement about going to town with my Granny, on the top deck of the bus, where I could drink in all around me far better...

I'm visual, you see...
He's factual...

All fascinating stuff..to me at least...and the reason why I get so damned fed up with the crap things happening in some schools, even to this day...

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 12:58 PM

Not sure I am really following you after all Lizzie.

I do think much could be made more interesting in school and I am aware of differences in teaching and areas. Singing together for example helped give me a love of music but my Skinners time in secondary school even though I got as far as O level before failing to turn up for the exams as riding a motor bike was more interesting could have knocked music out of me but I suppose I was in my own rebellious stage there.

Some things educationally, I regret now.


Some things I was forced to do I am grateful for. The simplest example being forced into the kitchen by mother. Although circumstances may be entirely different, I think I wind up in a similar state to Richard on this. I got very basics, I can do a roast (made myself a Christmas dinner with all the trimmings once when I was on my own) a start with get some oil, fry some onions, etc. and make a mince meal, stew or whatever is familiar. I would never have to be dependant on shop bought microwaves or takeaways. I learned enough. I am far from sure I enjoyed it at the time but I am glad I was made to learn "survival cooking".

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Mrrzy
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 02:45 PM

School isn't supposed to be fun, anyway. That's an American spoil-the-kids-completely thing, stems from the generations of no discipline or you'll stifle the poor little one's naturalness...

Poppycock. Civilization is all about squashing nature. It bugs me no end when educators talk about how to make science or whatever Fun. This is school! Fun is for after school!

(Sigh. I wish I could turn back the clock and raise my kids in Europe.)

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 08 Nov 10 - 03:02 PM

Not sure I agree there Mrzzy. Would you for example chose and ram down some Bartok piece I could not relate to down our throats (although it was in the O level corriculum) or have me learning singing with others? Would you rather I came the person who my teacher, Mr Harris was quoted as saying "he is the only person I have ever hoped fails his exams" or recognise that for many times in my life I have sung and if well enough would go back to being an active (Irish) session player?

I will not say my own attitude to education at many times could not of been better. I will not say that I did not go through a rebellious way that very much got in the way.

On the other hand, I might question the schools failure to properly recognise I genuinely had an interest (which has proved lasting) in music.

Subject: RE: BS: The Drugging of our Children
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 10 Nov 10 - 01:03 PM

>>>"School isn't supposed to be fun, anyway. That's an American spoil-the-kids-completely thing, stems from the generations of no discipline or you'll stifle the poor little one's naturalness...

Poppycock. Civilization is all about squashing nature. It bugs me no end when educators talk about how to make science or whatever Fun. This is school! Fun is for after school!

(Sigh. I wish I could turn back the clock and raise my kids in Europe.)"<<<


Actually, it kinda sounds as if you wished you'd not had children in the first place. What a shame you think your children should have been 'educated' with their nose to the grindstone, spending the vast majority of their waking hours 'tied' to desks, being 'forced' to learn things they have NO interest in.

IF adults were treated in the office/work world in the same way that children are so often treated in schools, there'd be national uproar and law suits whizzing back and forth enough to keep lawyers even richer for the rest of their days..

Why on EARTH should children NOT be *happy* at school? Why on earth should they not have fun? Why should they not be allowed to move, talk, wriggle, laugh, jiggle, drink, go to the bathroom when they need to...?   

The Controlling Ones have been in control for way too long...and you know what, The Controlling Ones don't actually *like* children in the first place. They don't understand them, don't relate to them, they're all about facts and figures and exams and pass rates and tick boxes and........obedience.

The wonder and joy of being a child has been taken away from so many...

Here, from a man who does understand, not only children, but the entire Corporate Education System, because he taught in it for over 30 years, as an Award Winning New York teacher..the wonderful, John Taylor Gatto..look his videos up on youtube and you may be astounded by what you start to learn...Read his great book 'Dumbing Us Down' and you'll learn even more...

"Whatever an education is, it should make you a unique individual, not a conformist; it should furnish you with an original spirit with which to tackle the big challenges; it should allow you to find values which will be your road map through life; it should make you spiritually rich, a person who loves whatever you are doing, wherever you are, whomever you are with; it should teach you what is important, how to live and how to die." - John Taylor Gatto

Taken from this site:
John Taylor Gatto quotes