BS: Should foxhunting be banned?

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: IvanB
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 01:58 PM

But, Wesley, going on one's first snipe hunt is a genuine rite of passage. Ban it? Never! Course, I'd wonder about anybody who ever signed up for their second. And, if there's any cruelty to the sniped, it's probably from the danger of them choking to death due to laughing uproariously in the brush while the brave hunters hold their snipe bags at the ready beside the railroad track.

Thread creep alert: I was taught that railroad tracks were prime hunting sites for snipe. Has that been the experience of other intrepid hunters?

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: MMario
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:16 PM

snipe hunts misfire when you live in an area in which snipe exist - yes, it is an actual shore bird - which was not known to a new scoutmaster back when I was in sprouts - he was more then a little surprised when one of the hunting teams actually brought back a snipe! (and two loons...but it was overcast...they should be forgiven for having mistaken them for snipe)

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Maxine
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:17 PM

absolutely...without a doubt fox hunting should be banned. How anyone can find it remotely enjoyable is truly beyond me. I have a fox in my garden, I buy an extra tin of dog food a day especially for it....we've become quite attatched to each other now! The majority of us Brits want it banned, it's just the pompous Peers who won't put the Bill through Parliament. Still, like Rick says, there's always the hope that one of the pillocks will fall off their horse and break their necks, (their own necks, not the horses)!

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Mac Tattie
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 02:54 PM

YES. cheers (or should I save the cheers for after the ban?)

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Cantrip
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:38 PM

Well I'm a Brit who doesn't want it banned. I'm not actually too bothered about foxhunting because there's hardly anyone (in Scotland anyway) who still does it. But I'm dead against the general banning of hunting with dogs, eg including hare coursing, lamping or whatever. Why the hell shouldn't we? and for those who use the argument 'it's cruel', well, no it's not. It's nature. Dogs have evolved to chase and kill. Hares/rabbits/rats etc (and this includes foxes, if we consider that the last wolf in Britain was only killed in the 18th century - not long in evolutionary terms) have evolved to be chased and killed.
And I hate the way antis always paint a picture of how the hare or fox 'is ripped apart alive by a pack of bloodthirsty hounds'. Generally the first dog to it snaps its neck, and it's dead by the time the rest of them get hold of it.
Although I have to say I do mostly agree with J.F.H above - if you want to kill an animal you should be going to eat it or protecting somone or something from it. And I reckon if you're going to eat it you should be prepared to skin and gut it yourself. I think supermarket prepacked meat has a lot to do with why the urban population is so against hunting with dogs.

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Gareth
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:39 PM

Ahhh ! Maxine, nearly my favorite line from that very FUNNY play by Potter "VOTE ! VOTE ! VOTE FOR NIGEL BARTON"

Opening sceen

Nigel Barton & Wife sitting watching Television.

Voice Over By Newsreader.

" The Conservative Member of Parliament for Boresetshire North was killed in a Hunting accident today. His horse had to be destroyed as well"

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Dimple
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:40 PM

No ,have you seen a fox with a snare round it's belly or poisoned,or shot and full of infection with a leg hanging off

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: weepiper
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 03:53 PM

Bugger, Cantrip's post above was actually me. I didn't notice he hadn't reset the cookie

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: gnu
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:04 PM

No comment, except this. Steve Parkes said, regarding the killing of foxes with guns, "The fox will almost certainly not be killed immediately, but will disappear from sight and die slowly and in much pain, possibly over several days, and maybe from starvation rather than its wound."

I find that statement very... uh... misleading, to put it politely. If you have first hand knowledge of such ineptitude, either UK hunters must not know what kind of ammo to use or they're some piss poor shots.

BTW, hunters go deep in the bush and always shoot twice. That's for Guest, Stavenger Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:50 PM

I think Cantrip makes a good point about supermarket meat, I have no problem with anyone killing anything if it is for food, I have personally killed literally thousands of animals! (I am a licensed slaughterman, and have worked in 3 slaughterhouses).Though I would obviously not expect everybody to kill their own food, as for most people this would be impractical.I think animal welfare is important, the consumer would reap the benefits of improvements, as stress before slaughter affects the taste and quality of meat,(animals under stress secrete chemicals that end up in meat), but that's another story, perhaps for another time!john

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Maxine
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 04:51 PM

What was it Cantrip? "Generally the first dog to it snaps its neck, and it's dead by the time the rest of them get hold of it" Well, I feel so much better now. At least I know the poor thing died quickly. The fact that it was running terrified through the woods with a pack of hounds running after it, knowing that there was no escape is neither here nor there....at least it died quickly, eh? I work in a Social Services Dept - I know terrible things happen, but surely this is just one more pointless thing that needn't?

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: weepiper
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 05:53 PM

Hello Maxine, it was me weepiper not Cantrip who wrote that, we live together and I didn't notice the cookie wasn't reset for me before I submitted that message.
Well, yes, the fact that it was running terrified etc IS really neither here nor there. I don't really equate a prey animal being killed by a dog with the sort of terrible things I think you must come across in your line of work.
It's not terrible or pointless. It's natural selection at work. What I do disagree with is the practice of stopping up earths and digging out. If the fox gets away that should be the end of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: kendall
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 08:15 PM

To say that shooting the foxes is just as cruel as running them down and letting a pack of hounds tear it to bits is a red herring. Sure they will kill a chicken, but, American foxes only weigh about ten pounds. Hardly a monster. People have pushed the wildlife to the brink. They have no where to go, and they are only doing what nature programmed them to do. Humans know better. Why did I suddenly think of the "Clearences"?

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 08:22 PM

Maxine, you should always be wary of feeding wild animals. Here in Florida we have an environmental uproar going on at the moment over the practice of tourist boats feeding sharks. Apparently the sharks get all uppity when they encounter a human who doesn't feed them titbits.

And I have a couple of possums living in my orchard to whom I have fed potato peelings for over two years. Just realised the little bastards are nibbling at my avocados, so I guess I might borrow a couple of foxhounds ......

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 08:33 PM

endall, there ar urban foxes. On the other hand, I have lived in the countryside most of my life about 26 years of which were in the same Welsh village. There were foxes, we kept hens, ducks and geese and had a few losses but only when we had neglected to shut them up properly. Never lost a cat to a fox in all that time though too much of a risk at least under normal circumstances and I would bet certain stray/roaming dogs would pose far more threat to a cat than the fox.

Other than that, there was little problem with foxes apart from the occasional (annual if that) feeling among some that the fox population was getting too high. A few people went out with guns did the job (yes they did kill them) and that was that - no need for regular hunts.

Fox hunting accounts for comparatively few fox deaths compared total deaths of foxes click here for an alternative pro fox-hunt view to the one offered by a couple here - more in line with Steve Parkes thoughts.

Oh and better just say the link I provided to was to the League Against Cruel Sports. I don't think I share their views on everything - didn't read that far. I have nothing against the person who goes fishing, or shooting and eats what they catch or shoot. I suspect contary to a few a couple of posts here, there would be many anti fox-hunting (IMO bloodlust) people who would be in favour of people allowed to do just that - I'd eat a pigeon or a rabbit even though I'm not a hunter of any sort.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 08:33 PM

There is a bit of a problem here with people feeding pigeons, the centre of Hull is covered in pigeon shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 08:46 PM

Where do you acquire TITBITS Murray? The mind boggles.............

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:26 PM

Sharks GETTING uppity? I thought sharks were ALWAYS uppity!?!?!?!

;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:36 PM

Isn't "titbits" the correct word? Or does one say "tiDbits" in the States? There used to be a weekly magazine in Britain in the late fifties , early sicties, called "TITBITS". I kid you not.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: fox4zero
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:51 PM

I live in the midst of fox-hunting country and enjoy seeing a red fox occaionally, even though one of the buggers killed our pet Muskovy duck "Lucky" one night as she slept in her nest.

I also have been thrilled by the sight of a few dozen foxhounds jumping my stone walls to slake their thirst in Lucky's pond in front of my house. Then run off to the call of the hunter's horns, while Lucky stared at them from the safety of the middle of the pond. This was during the pre-season road walks to limber up the dogs and horses. The clip-clop of the unseen horses hooves was an added pleasure.

The goal of the hunt is an exciting ride and the thrill of the chase. If the fox goes to ground, no one is interested in digging him out for the kill. An escaped fox is one more for the next hunt.

We also pursue hares on foot with beagles and bassets in a chase called "beagling". Its lots of fun to be out in the countryside in the company of a few dozen sneakered enthusiasts ranging from 8 to 80 years. Again, no one really wants to catch a hare...it would be one less for the next Sunday. And there's a great "tea" after the chase.

It's a pleasure to observe something with a little "style" in this world of mediocrity.

Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: toadfrog
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:54 PM

O.k. with me, so long as they do not ban foxhunting songs.

Does anyone know whether we still have fox hunting in the United States? I think we do. Anyone know whether, if so, it is a political issue?

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 09:57 PM

Larry, your duck was somewhat unfortunately named, I have to observe.

Not to worry, I used to own a Scotch terrier called "Butch". Boy, did we ever name him wrong .....

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 10:04 PM

They certainly still hunt foxes in Maryland and Virginia.

Don't know about other states

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 29 Nov 01 - 11:44 PM

And because of another thread, you all know exactly what I felt and feel about bullfighting. ;-)

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 12:09 AM

Art, why don't you post us a link to that bullfighting thread?> I also have strong feelings about bullfighting, and I hope they coincide with yours.

Working among Mexicans and Spaniards as I do, I have discovered that one sure way to get a violent argument going is to open an innocent discussion about bullfighting.

Not that I would ever deliberately stir up controversy.

Murray

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Blackcatter
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 02:10 AM

The part I like is I've heard that the majority of foxes escape the hunt - all those dogs and goofy people in red on horses and they actually have a pretty low success rate.

And the other thing is that I've heard that the sport has little to do with population control - only a small number of foxes are killed each year. Anyone got the averages, by any chance?

By the way, here in the South, coon hunts still occur - hounds and men with guns. The hounds usually "tree" the coon (and I'm talking about raccoons - not the other type) and then they shoot the coon out of the tree.

Of course, I've also gone cow-tipping when I was a teen...

pax yall

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 03:18 AM

My great grandfather was a collier: that's like a beagler, only with a sheep dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: gnu
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 04:19 AM

Murray... yes, it is spelled and pronounced tiDbits here in America. And we still have a magazine equivalent but it is spelled Playboy.

Course, you've heard about the greatest coon dog ever, Old Blue. After several treeings where the owner would not let the "sport" from the big city shoot the coon but, rather, shook the coon from the tree upon which Old Blue viciously tore the coon apart, thereby saving ammo. In the end, one coon could not be loosed from it's grip so the owner crawled out on the limb with a stick, lost his grip and fell. On his way down, he hollered most emphatically, "SHOOT OLD BLUE !!!!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Cllr
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 04:35 AM

No foxhunting should not be banned. Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: GUEST,fox4zero
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 04:38 AM

Toadfrog

Foxhunting is alive and well in Dutchess County in NY. It is not a significant political issue (especially if you want get elected)

Rabies here is much more significant as a population control in the racoon, fox and skunk populations. Coyotes have increased in numbers and may help reduce the deer herds which are bursting at the seams. Coyotes and fox compete for the same territories, and in the absence of wolves, have no predators other than man and the rabies virus.

Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Gervase
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 05:08 AM

if you want some stats on hunting, you'll find some here.
Yes, I know it's from a pro-hunting organisation, but the waters surrounding this issue have been hugely muddied by both sides, and there's precious little truly objective information around.
I have nothing against vegans who are anti-hunting - they have a perfect right to be. But anyone also who eats commercially-reared meat or who uses any animal product - be it gelatin, leather, wool or whatever - should really keep mum on this, as they are implicitly condoning far worse cruelty than is meted out to the fox by the hounds.
As, indeed, is anyone who owns a cat.
Lord save us from perishing bunny-huggers who would anthropomorphise everything and impose a fluffy miasma of urban sentimentality onto the world.
I blame that bloody Beatrix Potter!

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Tone d' F
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 05:10 AM

Some years ago I lived in the country, and the locl hunt came across my land, I contacted the hunt and told them not to do it again for two reasons 1. the damage they did to my plants 2. they had not caught a fox for months just excercised them

I was also asked by several people if they could shoot the land other than the obvious joke I said they could but only if they eat what they shoot (animals not trees)

Out of 20+ people only one took up my offer every Sunday for 20yrs, my cat did a better job than the lot of them

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: GUEST,Stavanger Bill
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 05:14 AM

Hi Spaw -

Apologies for the delay in responding to your specific queries, hope this is of some help -

The Sable Coated Norwegian Fox:

Absolutely stunning in appearance (Mega Fit), can be naturally blonde, brunette, redhead or artificially all those colours depending on what bottle of hair dye lay within easy reach of their hair stylist last visit.

This variety can most commonly be sighted in cities and although generally considered to be, by nature and habitat, a high cost maintenance item. Is eagerly hunted - normally because sable fur coats tend to be rather warm to wear (Info source - reliable informant, not personal experience) with the result that on entering their selected den for the evening and subsequent removal of coat the foxhunter is normally rewarded with some breast taking scenery and verification that silicon must be an illegal substance in Norway and that most do their shopping at Fantasy Fashions. This process of coat removal has also given rise to another odd behavioural trait governed by the dictum that one should always leave an establishment wearing a better coat than the one you entered it with.

It is from this trait of coat shedding that the English coined the phrase, describing a woman as "Having a fur coat and no knickers" - originally this was purely an observation, between collected hunters viewing the gathered vixens to select the easiest target. This phrase was later carried back to England, where it's usage was corrupted to describe a woman as being a "Dead Cert who is quite prepared to use what she's got to get what she wants". The degree of corruption of the meaning of the phrase, on reflection, is generally considered to be slight.

Ages vary from early twenties to late forties, the upper end of the scale definitely fitting into a category best described as being considered "In damn good shape for a veteran!!"

While ravashing, enchanting and delightful in appearance, it must be remembered by prospective foxhunters that, in the horizontal position, these are wild, dangerous animals - best kept at arms length after the initial, enjoyable, hopefully protracted, close quarters engagement. They might not be sly and cunning - but you can bet your ass they know a lawyer who is.

Degree of edibility is more than adequately verified by Norway's international reputation as having the finest seafood in the world - and they ain't talking about fish.

Gnu's advice given above;

"...hunters go deep in the bush and always shoot twice."

Is extremely sound and should be rigidly adhered to, but to it I would add the cautionary note for prospective foxhunters not to take the first part of Gnu's advice too literally as the majority of them shave.

Yours, in the hope that I have done my bit to boost trans-Atlantic air travel.

Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Cllr
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 07:35 AM

Gervase, Spot on. Cllr

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 08:04 AM

As gervase says, issues are muddy and I don't believe either side is playing exactly straight but click here to see a contrasting view to the statistics.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 08:17 AM

Gervase, that is another red herring. Animals in a slaughter house are killed instantly with a shot to the brain. Foxes are torn apart alive. there is no comparison.Are you in the dog food business?

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Gervase
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 08:29 AM

Er, Kendall. ever worked in a slaughterhouse or in the food processing industry?
I've seen calves and turkeys being prepared, and believe me, they ain't enjoying the process. They're often not even dead when the cutters and stickers get to work. At the plant which processes the turkeys of a well-known Norfolk'n'good food baron, I've seen birds regaining consciousness on the racks after they've supposedly been electrocuted, while even a captive-bolt pistol needs skill in application if it is to incapacitate an animal cleanly and efficiently.
Personally I won't eat non-organic, non free-range meat. I'm far happier with a pheasant of pigeon I've shot myself than with even ethically produced meat, because you don't know how it's been prepared.
None of which is much to do with fox-hunting, but...

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Rolfyboy6
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 08:31 AM

Various members of the wannabe upper crust started fox hunting here in Northern California. It didn't last. The coyotes regarded it as a swell way to eat a dog and have fragrant tasty broken legged horse carcasses left in inaccessable spots. I think the solution is clear: import coyotes into the British Isles. This will solve your problems with excess sheep too. After all, you've already got coyotes in your urban areas.

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 09:47 AM

Mucked my link last time. Click here for the alternative views to Gervase's link.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: robinia
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 10:11 AM

Right on, Terry, for your Welsh Miners Club! I hesitate to add more words on the hunting topic, which I think is a town/country split -- a matter (if we're honest about it) to which logical argument is simply window dressing. How do you "explain" or "justify" any primitive joy to someone has never experienced it?

But one comment does seem apropos. People who disapprove of hunting as sport usually think it's fine if you're hunting for the pot. Do it if you have to, but don't enjoy it, right? Or maybe you can enjoy it only if you're doing it for the right reason? Which sounds an awful lot like what a radical rightist might say about sex, but then, that's a joy that city-dwellers do understand. Just imagine if you had to explain it to them ...

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Raptor
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 10:49 AM

Do ya figgure god was shitting us when he threw in the do not kill part in the comandments?

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Gareth
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 06:24 PM

Cllr - Are you aware that "Vote Vote Vote for Nigel Barton " was set in Bedford ??

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: kendall
Date: 30 Nov 01 - 07:34 PM

Actually, I did work in a slaughterhouse , briefly, and it wasn't pretty. I never saw an animal made to syffer, but, I still couldn't take it. Did you ever read The Jungle? It was an expose' of the meat packing industry at the turn of the century. There is no question that the animals that are unlucky enough to taste good have a rough go of it, but, it still does not justify the NEEDLESS cruelty to foxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 01 Dec 01 - 01:42 AM

as a spokesperson for coyotes, "You think FOXES have it bad? NOBODY loves the coyote. The only reason WE'RE still here is were smarter than humans. If a bunch of suburbanites wearing red coats came after us, we'd probably die laughing! Foxes should wise up, learn to climb trees like our cousins the Grey Fox does. Then they could pounce on the hunters from above, spook their horses and cause no end of improper frivolity."

CB

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 06:02 AM

Foxhunting is illegal in Scotland, from today.

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 14 Feb 02 - 07:34 AM

It is easy to rally support to ban anything which is a minority pastime. Many people who enjoyed pistol shooting had to give up their hobbies, basically as the result of a public knee-jerk reaction. Dunblaine and Hungerford (years earlier) were both regrettable incidents, but the number of deaths from legitamately licensed hanguns over the years has been tiny compared with those from other sports. Now if we were to look at the number of fatalities caused by football.... but we couldn't ban that because it's a big industry with a huge following.

Let's put hunting in perspective. It does kill foxes in a way that is probably not the most humane, but then shooting and poisoning them is not neccessarily that painless either. Ask any poultry keeper just how humane a fox is when it gets into a chicken run - it doesn't just kill the odd one or two. If anything, I'm more worried about the number of horses that get injured in the sport. (BTW the term "Sport" has referred to hunting in it's various forms for many centuries - it's only recently that it's been applied to "Games" like football).

Foxes, probably due to urbanisation, are now in much larger numbers than ever before - definitely not in decline. They are not even performing a useful job of keeping other animal populations down - we currently have too many rabbits as well.

The fox has only ever had one serious predator to keep it's numbers down - and that is MAN. These days we are still managing to cull the numbers of young foxes with a modern (and much more efficient) method than foxhunting - the motor car. I am willing to bet that the total number of foxes that will be run over by cars driven by the opponents of foxhunting will be tens of times greater than those killed by all the hunts combined.

The other year I saw a fox hit by a car driver who didn't stop. The fox was not dead, but writhing in pain with probably a broken spine. Ignoring two female pedestrians who were trying to phone a vet (at 11.30pm !) I drove over it's head to put it out of pain - cries of horror from pedestrians.

If a bill was suggested to impose a speed limit of say 20mph on all rural and suburban roads at certain times of the year to protect young foxes it would be vigorously opposed by many of the same people who are now opposing foxhunting.

I say that if people want to hunt foxes - let them, but try and make sure that any cruelty (exept to the odd hunt saboteur) is kept within bounds. I have ridden fast accross country (never to hounds) and it is a wonderful experience - I wonder how many anti-hunters are equestrians.

Oh BTW - Don't forget that Folk Song, Music, and Dancing are all minority pursuits that a large percetage of the general public are not particularly interested in.......

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Ringer
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 09:26 AM

Having sorted out all other problems with the Health Service, Education, Crime, the railways, the London Underground, traffic congestion, Gibraltar, with impeccable timing the Government is about to re-introduce a bill to outlaw hunting!

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: GUEST,harvey andrews
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 11:14 AM

when all is said and done I wish to live in a civilised country and I'm ashamed that England allows this barbaric practice to continue. I campaigned for the Labour party in the full belief that it would do what it said it would do. It hasn't done it yet and if it dodges the issue of banning foxhunting again it will have shown itself to be less moral in its beliefs than the Thatcher government. Our lives should not be all about money, getting, grabbing,etc. We should try to leave the world a better place when we go than when we arrived and I feel deeply that banning foxhunting in England would make the world a somewhat better place.Well done Scotland, come on England!!

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 11:44 AM

OK Harvey, would you like to see angling banned as well, or is that OK because a lot of working class people enjoy it. Perhaps we should just ban posh people from salmon fishing on expensive private locations etc.

And as I've mentioned in an earlier thread, hundreds (or possibly thousands) of times more foxes will be run over by cars than will be killed by hunts this year. How many drivers will get out of their car to check that the fox isn't injured and in pain. And would you be willing to observe the draconian speed limits that would be required to limit the slaughter. I don't think the fact that a fox is killed by carelessness and not deliberately really absolves the perpetrator from blame.

I'm not part of the fox-hunting lobby, but I am anti the anti-foxhunting lobby.

Subject: RE: BS: Should foxhunting be banned?
From: Les from Hull
Date: 28 Feb 02 - 04:59 PM

It's not often that you see foxes chased over hill and dale by people in cars intending to kill them, though.