BS: Britain tops the yobs league

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 07:59 AM

This is rubbish. Ard mhacha has brought a lot to both sections of this site. He has always displayed good manners and etiquette.
Shields appears to the new pretender to the throne regarding Irish matters on this site.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 08:00 AM

I must say, Ard, although I fully agree that we do have a problem your thread title does now seem to be somewhat misleading. I was unaware until just now of the phrase "On every indicator of bad behaviour - drugs, drink, violence, promiscuity - the UK was at or near the top, said the Institute for Public Policy Research." This is lifted directly from the BBC report. No where does it say yobs, Britain or top. I understand fully that you may be using journalistic licence here but I am begining to appreciate that Shields Folk is not so much disputing the findings but disputing the way you reported it.

No hair splitting, no play on words. There is a world of difference between "France wins the World cup" and "France nearly wins the World cup." Neither I nor anyone apart from yourself knows what your motives were so I am not even going to go there. Can you admit though that your thread title was false? Can you show us anywhere that proves the thread title to be true? Would you be happy to change it to "Youth in the UK amongst the worst"?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 08:05 AM

Thank you DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 08:26 AM

A letter taken at random from one of the many that the BBC received on the problem of binge drinking,

"Part of the problem of binge drinking is down to this country`s horrible culture. We see "getting drunk" and the subsequent vandalism and violence as amusingly funny, but in reality it is quite a serious problem.
Until people are made to realise that drinking isn`t as cool it is made out to be, I don`t believe anything can be done about it. Andy Leeds UK.

The important part of this letter is the reference to drinking being "amusingly funny", a glance through this Thread will confirm Andy`s point.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 08:31 AM

"Binge Drinking" is not mentioned in the summary,alcohol abuse in lower socio-economic groups is. Thats not exactly a problem confined to todays youth is it.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 08:45 AM

Well okay, say we're the worst. Our young people are swine in human form (most teachers will go along with that). Whatever is bad, we're at it.

Now have you any suggestions to improve things, or is this just a general 'by gum! things don't appear to be what they should be, and they ain't wot they once were' sort of whinge?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 08:49 AM

The report by the Ippr appears not to suggest that British youth is screwing up our society but British society is screwing up our youth!

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 09:01 AM

I find it interesting that it seems to be fine to discuss the social ills in the North of Ireland, but a thread that reports on what is a grave problem in Great Britain draws a whole discussion of motives. Parenthetically, I chuckle at the irony of the complainers often being folks that are all too quick to criticize US society.

I thought ard was quite gracious in being very clear in the opening post with the following: "I can tell them that the condemnation in that report also applies to Ireland, all 32 counties".

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 09:05 AM

And you were very gracious trying to insult(perhaps too strong a word)me in a language I do not understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 09:07 AM

Actually, I was not addressing you in that language. I was addressing ard. Then you responded in a way that seemed to indicate that you understood it, so I addressed you in it. Details certainly are a pain in the old arse, are they not?

le gach dea-mhéin,      

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 09:10 AM

You have read the report haven't you Mick?
Tell me what did you think of it?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 09:14 AM

bush league debaters trick, SF. Now that you have been called on an inaccuracy, you attempt to shift the premise off you to me. Won't work. You took a thread that was intended to address an ill in your society and hijacked it to a discussion of the initiator of the thread. I am not going to discuss it with you, as you are not interested in discussion. But yes, I did look it over.

le gach dea-mhéin,      

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 10:27 AM

The thing is my argument is based on the inaccuracy of the thread title. I think it was meant to be inflamatory, if it wasn't ok but it would be more accurate to change it. May I suggest "British society is screwing up our youth"

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 11:39 AM

What about "British mudcatter is screwing the Irish".

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 26 Nov 06 - 11:39 AM

What about reading the report?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Nov 06 - 10:12 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 04:17 AM

Ta an SF, [not Sein Fein], is beyond logical thought, Big Mick I have been following this discussion with interest and was amazed to find so many people ignoring the main purpose, which was sidelined in the interest of nationality.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 05:30 AM

I'm going to duck out here. I agree with Ard Mhacha completely. We do need to address these issues. I agree with Shields Folk that the thread title is wrong. I don't however see what one has to do with the other. It could have been an interesting excercise, maybe even bringing a greater awareness of the issue and possibly even helping but it has been sidelined. Would one of you please give a little? Either -

1. Ard Mhacha requests a title change or

2. Shields Folk starts a seperate thread about journalistic license in thread titles.

Before I go I would point out one thing before everyone else thinks that the UK is bathed in blood, urine and vomit every weekend. It isn't. The vast majority of youngsters are good, law abiding, pleasant people who are fun to be around. The large city centres realy suffer from the effects of the idiots but it is probably a few late hours a week in a small percentage of the land mass. Most times and places are safe to go and fun to be in.

Why do you think the yobs make the papers so often? Because they are news. No-one ever reports that a crowd of young men and women go out to enjoy themselves, have a few beers, enjoy a dance and some music, then go home happy and without having caused any trouble. Lets hope that whatever we have to do about it the majority win out in the end.

BTW - This has happened since the 50's at least. Who remembers the lawless days of the Ted's ripping up cinemas? Move on to the 60's - Mods and Rockers battling it out at the seaside? Don't think we had anything similar in the last 30 years so they have just re-packaged yesterdays news.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Mick
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 07:11 AM

I agree with the last part of the post. These discussions always cause folks to paint with too broad a brush, and the perception is always worse than the fact. An analogy is the Catholic Priest abuse scandal here in the States. As bad as that scandal has rocked the Church, the worst detractors admit that the number of Priests engaged in such activity is something less than 2%. While the scope of the problem for Great Britain is certainly serious, I would be interested in knowing what percentage of British youth engage in these activities.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 07:16 AM

Is this the report - "Freedom's Orphans:
Raising youth in a changing world"? There's a summary of it on the IPPR site, though not the full report.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 07:16 AM

Well said Dave. The truth will out (but it won't make the papers!).
S:0)

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Den
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 07:42 AM

It has always a sad reflection on our media that bad news equals big news. I remember once talking to a journalist friend who pretty well summed it up. He had been working for a small local paper on a story about a pensioner who at the age of 89 was still living independently, volunteering in her community and generally making a difference in the lives of the people around her. Space was tight for the particular issue and someone brought in a story about joy-riders who had crashed a stolen car. The editor immediately asked if either of the joyriders had been killed in the crash. When he was told no he reluctantly agreed to, "run the old lady story."

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Nov 06 - 10:21 AM

I remember this last point struck me very forcefully that week that they published the forged Hitler diaries. Pages and pages about the Hitler Diaries.

John Keats's diary was published in the same issue of the Sunday papers, it got less than a hundred words. Years of genuine scholarship brushed aside as unimportant to make way for - the vague chance of publishing the memoirs of a mass murderer.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 05:50 AM

So the upshot of all this is as follows:

- No mention of yobs in the report refered to
- No league or tables actually exist
- That if such tables did exist Britain would not top any of them

What a glorious waste of time and energy.

Thanks to Shields Folk for at least exposing the original post as being the utter rubbish it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 10:02 AM

Still a lot of pissheads though....

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Bull Ring Bill
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 10:04 AM

I see the our teenagers are mugging people not for their property alone but for the thrill they get from mugging, two boys were sentenced to 21 years and 17 for stabbing to death a man who was foolish enough to fight back.
The fact that someone will have the nerve to fight back is part of the thrill, they then proceed to kick the shit out of them, now it is definitely not safe to walk the streets, `Brum at night is out for me, no more walking, it`s the taxi now.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Teribus
Date: 29 Nov 06 - 09:12 PM

Hell's teeth weelittledrummer - 29 Nov 06 - 10:02 AM

"Still a lot of pissheads though...."

With regard to drink, compared to what the UK was like in Georgian and Victorian times we could be compared to Puritan/Calvinists.

Oh and GUEST,Bull Ring Bill - 29 Nov 06 - 10:04 AM

"I see the our teenagers are mugging people not for their property alone but for the thrill they get from mugging, two boys were sentenced to 21 years and 17 for stabbing to death a man who was foolish enough to fight back."

"I see our teenagers are mugging people not for their property alone but just for the thrill of it". Really? How many teenagers are there in Birmingham Guest Bull Ring Bill? The abhorent actions of two of them seems to sufficient justification for you to tar them all with the same brush. Absolute crap and you damn well know it. A little piece of advice, inject a bit of realism into your life. If you wish to surrender your freedom of life and movement to the irrational fears you describe here then by all means go ahead, but please don't attribute that loss to anyone else apart from yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 03:52 AM

Calm down Teribus. When you're as old as us, you will start enjoying your paranoid delusions and bleating on about sod all, like we do.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Bull Ring Bill
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 04:00 AM

Teribus I am unaware of where you live but take my advice if you are ever in the area of `Brum and find yourself slighty tipsy, please do what me and my mate does and ring for a taxi.
It is a few years now, from I walked home from my local, the streets around my area of`Brum are definitely no go after dark, and more so at the weekend, there must be the odd person on this site who is familiar with Birmingham,tell me if I am wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 04:42 AM

If you live in Tamworth, take a taxi. Its a long way.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 03:20 PM

If you live in Tamworth, take cyanide. It's the ONLY way! LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Bullring Bill
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 04:54 PM

No, I don`t come from Tamworth and there is nothing wrong with Tamworth, manys the good hamshank came from the home of the Tamworth pig, a much more respectable animal than some of the young holligans now stalking our streets.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Teribus
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 07:22 PM

"You can always judge a man by the company he keeps
And the Pig got up and slowly walked away."

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 07:29 PM

Meant to post that myself Teribus!

Isnt it "You can tell a man who boozes by the company he chooses, etc" though? I suppose yours works just as well though...perhaps we are both right?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Nov 06 - 07:45 PM

Was that a pig or a bore who wrote that reply ?

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Bullring Bill
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 05:37 AM

You are right about the company I keep in `Brum, I do my best to avoid them, but when they mugged some friends I NOW know to stay well clear. Who is Teribus and where does he live, he seems to know a lot about Birmingham.
The Brummies on this Site could inform him of the weekend no go areas, in our dear old town

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 07:09 AM

Me, Guest?

Well, I have been called both.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Balham the builder.
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 07:38 AM

He's from Balham, not Birmingham Bill. Mentioned in another thread here. South London.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 04:11 PM

You could take him to 11 route bus stop in Erdington. Get him to take the circular tour, and say - anywhere in that circle - keep out of, to be on the safe side.   Although it would leave out the strife torn Erdington High Street, and the bomb cratered byways of West Brom - the living hell that is Stourbridge, and Morrisons car park in Redditch.

Go safe out there, Bill.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Bullring Bill
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 04:47 PM

Drummer boy you know your `Brum, and not forgetting Aston it is close by my home, hells half acre.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 05:09 PM

My wife used to teach at Manor park School in Aston. A fine semi rural location, near to spaghetti junction for a quick getaway.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Teribus
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 06:08 PM

Sorry, not from Birmingham, or anywhere close. Not from Balham, I couldn't even tell you where that is, although someone does fervently belive that I once wrote something derrogatory about the place with some connection to a builders yard. When asked to cut and paste what I had supposedly written he/she declined to do so and another 'catter pointed out a search of my postings revealed no such reference to Balham. Still inspite of the most compelling evidence people will believe whatever it is they want to believe, with particular reference to this thread

Ard Mhacha - There is no such thing as a Yobs League Table
Ard Mhacha - Even if there were Britains youth would not top that table.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Dec 06 - 08:56 PM

Jesus Christ mate, Ard finds something that we're good at - something at which we excel....and this is the thanks he gets.

I don't feel you have the right to reject the trophy without consulting the rest of the team.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:46 AM

Anyone seen todays BBC news now it is not safe to travel by bus,drivers are asking for help from the polyce. street crime up by 85%,

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 05:52 AM

Just had another look at the BBC news 24 hours report on inner city crime, all of the people interviewed said they would not walk home, taxi was the preferred transport, don`t believe me have a look.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 11:35 AM

Funny that nothing from Britain is to be trusted apart from the BBC news isn't it?

Look, will people just accept that there IS a problem with street crime and anti-social behaviour in the UK (The WHOLE of the UK that is). Can no-one see that the press will always make it seem worse than it is because that is what sells papers and TV.

If we believe nothing we hear and only half of what we see we may start to make some headway. Oh yes, and accept that nothing on an internet forum should be taken at face value.

Now, excuse me while I walk into town and take a bus back later. I don't expect you will see me again...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Barnacle Bill the Sailor
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 12:12 PM

We interrupt this programme to announce that Tamworth have reached the 3rd round of the FA Cup, look out the big boys, and a happy old Blues fan says we are on our way to the Premier, now back to the studio.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Den
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 02:50 PM

Stay safe Dave and don't accept any sweets from strangers.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: GUEST,Bullring Bill
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 03:22 PM

Dave Careful I wouldn`t take the chance and I am no dwarf.

Subject: RE: BS: Britain tops the yobs league
From: Shields Folk
Date: 02 Dec 06 - 03:30 PM

Is your information anecdotal or was it based on actual research ard?