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BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film

DigiTrad:
BACK HOME IN DERRY
JOE MCDONNEL
THE WOMAN CRIED
THERE WERE ROSES
YOUR DAUGHTERS AND YOUR SONS


Related threads:
Chords Req: O'Hara, Hughes, McCreesh and Sands (10)
folk radio - Colum Sands (11)
ADD: Whatever You Say, Say Nothing (Colum Sands) (41)
Lyr Req: songs by Tommy Sands (67)
Add: Don't Call Me Early in the Morning (TSands?) (6)
Lyr Req: Let the Circle Be Wide (Tommy Sands) (12)
ADD Come Lay Your Bundle Down (Tommy Sands) (8)
Lyr Req/Add: County Down (Tommy Sands) (17)
2018 Obit: Rosaleen Sands (Ireland) (3)
Lyr Add: Almost Every Circumstance (Colum Sands) (53)
Chords: Your Daughters and Your Sons (6)
Bobby Sands (130)
Chords:Down Among the Bushes of Jerusalem-T.Sands (11)
Bobby Sands, IRA and The Sands Family (26)
Lyr ADD: The Note That Lingers On (Colum Sands) (5)
Lyr/Chords Req: Shadow of O'Casey (Tommy Sands) (17)
Lyr Add: The Music of Healing (Tommy Sands) (4)
Lyr Req: One of These Days (Colum Sands) (3)
(origins) Origins: Back Home In Derry (5)
Colum Sands - Gigs in UK ? (8)
Lyr ADD: Goodbye John Joe (Ben Sands) (9)
Sands Family (5)
Lyr Req: heart's a wonder? / Music of Healing (14)
Who was Bobby Sands? (86)
Tune Req: Farewell to the Town (Ben Sands) (3)
Lyr ADD: Directions (Colum Sands) (5)
Announce: Colum Sands (6)
Colum Sands at The Cricketers (4)
Where's Tommy Sands? (8)
Celtic Colours - Tommy Sands (11)
Lyr Req: The Marching Song (Colum Sands) (15)
Lyr Req: Lookin' the Loan of a Spade (Colum Sands) (9)
Sands Family (6)
Lyr ADD: Last House on Our Street (Colum Sands) (6)
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Gulliver 25 May 08 - 07:58 PM
Jean(eanjay) 25 May 08 - 08:20 PM
Jean(eanjay) 25 May 08 - 08:28 PM
GUEST,Joe 26 May 08 - 04:20 AM
ard mhacha 26 May 08 - 09:12 AM
mark gregory 27 May 08 - 02:00 AM
GUEST,O'Donnell 29 May 08 - 09:46 PM
Big Mick 30 May 08 - 01:21 AM
ard mhacha 30 May 08 - 05:09 AM
KEVINOAF 30 May 08 - 06:44 AM
Jean(eanjay) 30 May 08 - 07:33 AM
goatfell 31 May 08 - 05:24 AM
goatfell 31 May 08 - 05:27 AM
ard mhacha 31 May 08 - 07:27 AM
Den 01 Jun 08 - 08:41 AM
goatfell 01 Jun 08 - 11:47 AM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Jun 08 - 08:01 PM
Den 01 Jun 08 - 08:37 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Jun 08 - 08:44 PM
Keith A of Hertford 01 Jun 08 - 08:56 PM
Den 02 Jun 08 - 12:17 PM
ard mhacha 02 Jun 08 - 05:29 PM
goatfell 03 Jun 08 - 04:33 AM
goatfell 03 Jun 08 - 04:35 AM
goatfell 03 Jun 08 - 04:36 AM
goatfell 03 Jun 08 - 04:42 AM
ard mhacha 03 Jun 08 - 05:16 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 08 - 05:17 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 08 - 05:57 AM
Jean(eanjay) 03 Jun 08 - 06:58 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 08 - 07:12 AM
goatfell 03 Jun 08 - 07:31 AM
Jean(eanjay) 03 Jun 08 - 07:45 AM
Jean(eanjay) 03 Jun 08 - 07:51 AM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 08 - 09:33 AM
ard mhacha 03 Jun 08 - 09:40 AM
Jean(eanjay) 03 Jun 08 - 09:56 AM
GUEST,G 03 Jun 08 - 10:28 AM
Jean(eanjay) 03 Jun 08 - 10:42 AM
Jean(eanjay) 03 Jun 08 - 10:56 AM
Teribus 03 Jun 08 - 12:36 PM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 08 - 12:46 PM
goatfell 03 Jun 08 - 01:07 PM
Teribus 03 Jun 08 - 01:08 PM
goatfell 03 Jun 08 - 01:09 PM
goatfell 03 Jun 08 - 01:12 PM
goatfell 03 Jun 08 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,G 03 Jun 08 - 01:21 PM
goatfell 03 Jun 08 - 01:25 PM
Big Al Whittle 03 Jun 08 - 01:47 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Gulliver
Date: 25 May 08 - 07:58 PM

From today's Irish Times:

THE FILM Hunger received the Camera d'Or award at the closing ceremony of the Festival de Cannes last night.

The award, one of the most prestigious at Cannes, is given to the director of the best first-time feature film in any section of the festival. It was presented by the jury chairman, French director Bruno Dumont, and US actor Dennis Hopper.

The prize was accepted by director Steve McQueen, the British artist who won the Turner Prize in 1999. "I'm very proud for myself and the marvellous cast and crew I had on this film," McQueen told The Irish Times after the awards ceremony. "As we worked on it, I knew that we were making something special. Michael Fassbender [who plays Sands] is a star, as are Liam Cunningham and Stuart Graham, and our young actors, Liam McMahon and Brian Milligan. They are the weight, heart and soul of the film."

Don


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 25 May 08 - 08:20 PM

I'm having problems making a link.

I was trying to make a link to

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5hORSFRS1BYKTDdyFLU_wy8P6uxEQ

"The key to the film was that it looked at the humanity of the story and how this place, Maze Prison, at that time in history, how it was a brutalising place for everyone - be you prison officer, prisoner, orderly or riot guard.

"It was a tragedy for everyone. We looked at what happens when dialogue stops and that has a resonance across the world."


taken from the link I was trying to make.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 25 May 08 - 08:28 PM

http://ukpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5haY84bghgCjBkJ3LrXlYsEgWY6lAlink fairy

This is another link that I would like to have made.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: GUEST,Joe
Date: 26 May 08 - 04:20 AM

The brits and the US are the real terrorists, they just have enough money to get planes to drop their bombs.

God Bless Bobby Sands MP and all his comrades RIP


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: ard mhacha
Date: 26 May 08 - 09:12 AM

And the Mudcat d`Oir goes to Robbie Wilson, congratulations.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: mark gregory
Date: 27 May 08 - 02:00 AM

Bobby Sands got elected to be a member of the House of Commons while he was in gaol in the MAZE where he also proved to be a great songwriter

see Back Home in Derry in Mudcat


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: GUEST,O'Donnell
Date: 29 May 08 - 09:46 PM

Sands (and his family) would have faced far worse than starvation from his 'comrades' had he not gone through with the strike. He was no hero, he was used as a sacrifice for propaganda; they gave him no choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 May 08 - 01:21 AM

Horseshit, O'Donnell. Go crawl back in your hole.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 May 08 - 05:09 AM

Sorry " O`Donnell", no runners up, you are an also ran, only one winner, ROBBIE WILSON.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: KEVINOAF
Date: 30 May 08 - 06:44 AM

Thank God for free debate! in my opinion the troubles in northern ireland were caused as aresult of th e british trait of walking into anothers country and trying to take control ,,a long saga of imperialism supported by flag - waving patroitic cretins spawned in this island from the time of the angevin empire to presnt day Iraq . before I get the expected feed-back I have all ready chosen to go else where ,and have no plan to even retuurn to the ISLE OF SHITE unlessI can borrow a B-52!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 30 May 08 - 07:33 AM

link I tried to make before

It is the wording looked at the humanity of the story that touches me and I try to think of that when I think of the British soldiers, the hunger strikers, their families and all the people of Ireland. The British government left a lot to be desired then and it leaves a lot to be desired now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 31 May 08 - 05:24 AM

I copied this from a website

Soldier

    * (Harvey Andrews)

      In a station in the city a British soldier stood
      Talking to the people there if the people would
      Some just stared in hatred, and others turned in pain
      And the lonely British soldier wished he was back home again

      Come join the British Army! said the posters in his town
      See the world and have your fun come serve before the Crown
      The jobs were hard to come by and he could not face the dole
      So he took his country's shilling and enlisted on the roll

      For there was no fear of fighting, the Empire long was lost
      Just ten years in the army getting paid for being bossed
      Then leave a man experienced a man who's made the grade
      A medal and a pension some mem'ries and a trade

      Then came the call for Ireland as the call had come before
      Another bloody chapter in an endless civil war
      The priests they stood on both sides the priests they stood behind
      Another fight in Jesus's name the blind against the blind

      The soldier stood between them between the whistling stones
      And then the broken bottles that led to broken bonmes
      The petrol bombs that burnt his hands the nails that pierced his skin
      And wished that he had stayed at home surrounded by his kin

      The station filled with people the soldier soon was bored
      But better in the station than where the people warred
      The room filled up with mothers with daughters and with sons
      Who stared with itchy fingers at the soldier and his gun

      A yell of fear a screech of brakes the shattering of glass
      The window of the station broke to let the package pass
      A scream came from the mothers as they ran towards the door
      Dragging their children crying from the bomb upon the floor

      The soldier stood and could not move his gun he could not use
      He knew the bomb had seconds and not minutes on the fuse
      He could not run and pick it up and throw it in the street
      There were far too many people there too many running feet

      Take cover! yelled the soldier, Take cover for your lives
      And the Irishmen threw down their young and stood before their wives
      They turned towards the soldier their eyes alive with fear
      For God's sake save our children or they'll end their short lives here

      The soldier moved towards the bomb his stomach like a stone
      Why was this his battle God why was he alone
      He lay down on the package and he murmured one farewell
      To those at home in England to those he loved so well

      He saw the sights of summer felt the wind upon his brow
      The young girls in the city parks how precious were they now
      The soaring of the swallow the beauty of the swan
      The music of the turning world so soon would it be gone

      A muffled soft explosion and the room began to quake
      The soldier blown across the floor his blood a crimson lake
      There was no time to cry or shout there was no time to moan
      And they turned their children's faces from the blood and from the bones

      The crowd outside soon gathered and the ambulances came
      To carry off the body of a pawn lost in the game
      And the crowd they clapped and cheered and they sang their rebel song
      One soldier less to interfere where he did not belong

      And will the children growing up learn at their mothers' knees
      The story of the soldier who bought their liberty
      Who used his youthful body as a means towards an end
      Who gave his life to those who called him murderer not friend

Susannes Folksong-Notizen

    *

      [1972:] If you can con an ordinary man into protecting your interests, he gets done when the crisis comes, not you. Many soldiers are not professional killers, they're kids who couldn't get a job, and as unemployment has soared, recruiting for the army has increased by over 60% in three years. The average soldier is unimportant in the final analysis, it's the ones who shelter behind him that count [...] and they always seem to survive! (Notes Harvey Andrews, 'Writer of Songs')
    *

      [1973:] Written from newspaper clippings. (Forces Folk 11/73, p 10)
    *

      [1975:] Hugh [Fraser] has a friend, an officer in the Brigade of Guards, just back from a tour of duty in Northern Ireland. While they were there forty of his men bought themselves out of the Army, as their wives would not have them being shot at in Ireland. Meanwhile, partly because of the boom, but partly because of Ireland, the recruiting figure for April this year was half the number for April 1972. (Cecil King, Diary 1970-1974, July 3rd, 1973, p 297)
    *

      [1979:] His next major song, however, inadvertently created a controversy which, for a while, clearly damaged Andrews' standing and viability. 'Soldier', in spite of an unambiguous sleevenote, was widely interpreted as a pro-establishment glorification of military heroism and, therefore, by left-wing logical extension, of authoritarian violence; whereas in fact it was a simple (if lyrically somewhat overwritten) story of a young man caught in an impossible situation. The song was neither for the British authorities nor against the Irish rebels; it was about the senselessness of violence, applied on a personal level. [...] Harvey Andrews' Belfast song ('Soldier') was not a lasting success (though it remains popular, for obvious reasons, with army audiences in Ulster and Germany). (Woods, Revival 115f)
    *

      [1990:] In Northern Ireland, this song written in 1972 by a professional songwriter, Harvey Andrews, has become very widely known among soldiers, and at the same time divorced in classic folk-song style from its author. (Palmer, Lovely War 18)

      In 1971 in Belfast a soldier called Sergeant Willis cleared a room of civilians because of a bomb. As he went to close the door afterwards, the charge exploded, and he was killed. [...] Harvey Andrews, was so struck by the incident that he wrote the song to make the point that soldiers, too, are human. (The incident of the soldier's embracing the bomb was poetic licence.) Broadcasts of Andrews' record were banned for some time by the BBC lest feelings be exacerbated in the nationalist community of Northern Ireland. The Ministry of Defence advised (and still advises) soldiers not to sing the song in pubs where it might cause trouble. Some have interpreted this as a ban. Nevertheless, they sing it 'all the time', according to one source, on military transport and in messes and canteens. It has been said that some units require newcomers to learn to sing or recite the song before they become fully accepted. Andrews' authorship is not widely known, and many different stories about the song's origin circulate. [...]

      The text has appeared in the 'Soldier', the 'Methodist' magazine, and the 'Manchester Evening News' (where in 1988 it won a poetry competition for a youth who sent it in over his own name). (Palmer, Lovely War 199)
    *

      [1997:] Someone told me my song was banned in the army, so I thought the ones to know would be the Ministry of Defence, and asked them. [...] They even had it in their files that the song was 'written by Harvey Andrews, who'd been in 2nd Para'. I never was in the army in my life! (Harvey Andrews, pr. comm.)
    *

      See also http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=28801


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 31 May 08 - 05:27 AM

i copied this one aLast Night I Had The) Strangest Dream

    * (Ed McCurdy)

      Chorus:
      Last night I had the strangest dream
      I never dreamed before
      I dreamed the world had all agreed
      To put an end to war

      I dreamed I saw a mighty room
      And the room was filled with men
      And the paper they were signing said
      They'd never fight again

      And when the paper was all signed
      And a million copies made
      They all joined hands, bowed their heads
      And grateful prayers were prayed

      The people in the streets below
      Were dancing round and round
      And swords and guns and uniforms
      Lay scattered on the ground

      (as sung by Iain MacKintosh & Hamish Imlach)

Susannes Folksong-Notizen

    *

      english [1965:] [This was already] some years old when it caught on as an expression of commonsense hopes. (Notes 'Spotlight On The Spinners')
    *

      english [1966:] In 1950 young Ed McCurdy came up to the hotel room of the Weavers [...]. He sang us [this] which he'd just made up. The song has never been on the top forty, but has gradually spread throughout much of the world. (Notes Pete Seeger, 'Waist Deep In The Big Muddy')
    *

      german [1977:] Das Lied schrieb Ed McCurdy zu Beginn der Ostermarschbewegung in England. (Liederkiste 43)
s well


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: ard mhacha
Date: 31 May 08 - 07:27 AM

Sorry Arran there is no runners up medals, Robbie Wilson passed the winning post, a long time ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Den
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 08:41 AM

You're crackin' me up Ard, up Armagh!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 11:47 AM

i don't know if Den has said sorry but I have many times Arran (prevously knowbn as Guitar)


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 08:01 PM

Mick, after your magnanimous appology, you do it again.
O'Donnel expresses a view and instead of challenging it, you dismiss it as shit and tell him to "crawl back in your hole. "

You could have pointed out that the strike was opposed by PIRA outside prison.
They feared either a loss of credibility if it was not carried on to the bitter end, or massive losses if it was.

What they feared most actually started to happen. Attendances at funerals began to dwindle after the first couple, and they were haunted by the spectre of a funeral with no support at all.
It was a probably a relief when the families of dying men started to insist that they be treated and revived.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Den
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 08:37 PM

Arran what do I have to apologise for exactly? Please enlighten.

Keith would you mind citing your source/s.

In the words of the man himself:
Comrade, Just some worrying thoughts that are in my mind. As you should know, I don't care much to entering any discussion on the topic of 'negotiations' or for that matter 'settlements' but what is worrying me is this: I'm afraid that there is a possibility that at a crucial stage (which could be after death) the Brits would move with a settlement and demand Index [Prison Chaplin, Fr Toner) as guarantor. Now this is feasible, if a man is dying, that they would try to force Bik to accept a settlement to save life which of course would be subject to Index's interpretation. And we know how far that would get us. It wouldn't make any difference if it were he and Silvertop [Assistant Prison Chaplain, Fr Murphy), the same would occur. I've told Bik to let me or anyone else die before submitting to a play like that. Well that's what was bugging me - silly old fool aren't I!! . . . I was wondering (here it comes says you) that out of the goodness of all yer hearts you could get me one miserly book and try to leave it in: the Poems of Ethna Carberry - cissy. 'That's really all I want, last request as they say. Some ask for cigarettes, others for blindfolds, yer man asks for Poetry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 08:44 PM

Den, you ask for my "sources"
This suggests that you doubt the veracity of something I have said.
Tell me exactly what and I will verify.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Jun 08 - 08:56 PM

BS's election victory has been mentioned a couple of times now.
Let us put it in perspective.
Ordinary decent Nationalist people would not vote for Sinn Fein.
Everyone knew that the claimed separation of Sinn Fein and the IRA was just a lie.
Untill the violence stopped they preferred to vote for SDLP who sought political change but opposed violence.
But for the bloody and futile "armed struggle" they would have achieved all we have now and more decades ago.
When Bobby Sands stood for election, the SDLP candidate withdrew his own nomination at the last minute.
I wonder why he did that.
I expect he wanted to remain alive and wanted the same for his loved ones.
The Nationalist voters had the choice of voting for Mr. Sands or not voting at all and allowing the Unionist to win.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Den
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 12:17 PM

Yeah this for a start,"You could have pointed out that the strike was opposed by PIRA outside prison.
They feared either a loss of credibility if it was not carried on to the bitter end, or massive losses if it was."

Further more. I voted for Sinn Fein, does that make me something other than "an ordinary decent Nationalist", and if so, what exactly because I've always thought of myself as one.

"I expect he wanted to remain alive and wanted the same for his loved ones." Speculation and damaging speculation at that, or is that what you were going for Keith?

Why don't you read 10 men dead by David Beresford if you really do have an objective interest in this period of Irish history and then rejoin this debate.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Jun 08 - 05:29 PM

Stop sucking lemons Keith,why did those foreigners give the prize to the Bobby Sands film?, likely they were without your bias,and for your further enlightenment read free on the net, Interment and The Guinea Pigs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 04:33 AM

From: Den - PM
Date: 18 May 07 - 10:47 AM

Well, well, well. Just dangle the carrot and out come the bigots. Just who did Bobby Sands murder? Several posters (for want of a better title) have called him a murderer. Produce your evidence, put up or shut up. It never ceases to amaze me the ammount of vitriol directed at this young man. I think a lot of you need to educate yourselves. I know for a few that's asking a lot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 04:35 AM

but i don't want to start that rubbish again, the guy ran away from the police while his friends were being shot, some friend eh!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 04:36 AM

but let bygones be bygones

I just don't like him or his pals or his Loylist counterparts either.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 04:42 AM

I'm a Scottish Natinallist, but i just don't think that it's right for anyone to kill anyone else to get freedom, not matter their politics are.

like Sinn Fein IRA because that's exactlay who they are.

but that is up to you.

oh I'm coming over to Northern Ireland at the end of July, and idon't care about Prtestants or Catholics because both are just as bad as each other.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:16 AM

Simple question, why did those foreign chappies vote for this film? Scottish nationalist?, I have met many Scot nats and their opinion was very much different to yours.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:17 AM

Bloody hell Arran ....calm down. Talking to yourself is bad enough (I do it!) Having an e-mail debate with yourself....well its disturbing to watch.

we could all end up like that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 05:57 AM

Ard, foreign chappies are always giving awards. Every year they used to give the Golden rose of montreux to some tv programme, and when they showed it - you could hear a collective gasp of bewilderment go up over Europe.

What I'm saying is. It may be a good film. But don't build your hopes up too far.

PS Enjoying the The green Fool - I'll get back to you soon.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 06:58 AM

Steve McQueen won the Caméra d'Or for the best first feature film and quite rightly according to Melissa Anderson. Time Out New York

Although the film stems from politics Steve McQueen is not interested in the politics. He looks, unjudgementally, at the effect the conditions in the prison had on both prisoners and prison officers. It sounds as if some people will have difficulty watching the film because of the brutality, the conditions in the prison and the fact that they will be watching the realistic portrayal of someone starving themselves to death.

It is irrelevant what people feel about the politics. There will no doubt be scenes in the film that I will have to close my eyes to but, like Steve McQueen, the hunger strikes had a marked effect on me. I remember sitting in the back of our car in early May 1981, with my two young children, on a day out. My husband was driving and the news was reporting the hunger strikes. My father was in the British army (not in Ireland) and was "picking up the pieces" with families of soldiers who had been killed and injured in Ireland. I felt so sorry for the British soldiers and their families. I felt so sorry for the hunger strikers and their families. I felt so sad that Bobby Sands had made his mother promise that the family would not intervene when he went into a coma so it was clear before he died that there was no hope. I felt frustrated that the British government was so inflexible.

This is an important film for some of us. Other people have the option of not watching it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:12 AM

'unjudgementally, at the effect the conditions in the prison had on both prisoners and prison officers.'

I'll believe it when I see it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:31 AM

I just don't terrorists that is all unlike some Northern Irish nationalsts, perticulary those the vote for a prty that backed terrorism, the SNP don't back terrorism but Sinn Fein IRA do.

but that is up to them

as I said I just hate any terrorist of any politcal thought.

republicans and loylist terrorist in Northern Ireland and just evil people.

but you still get people that back them.

but let bygones be bygones lets agree to disagree.

anyway what has this got to do with a film about a man the killed himself anyway to some he was a terrorist and some a freedom fighter a maytor


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:45 AM

The film is about the humanity of the situation and not the politics. Steve McQueen is trying to show that everyone inside that prison suffered in one way or another and we don't always consider that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 07:51 AM

I'll believe it when I see it.

Whether or not, as individuals once we have seen the film, we feel that Steve McQueen has achieved what he set out to achieve, the people who gave the award to the film and the critics certainly feel that he has.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 09:33 AM

Forgive my cynicism.

But I think film is a much more lightweight artform than the symphony, or the novel, or the poem.


Take that Bodyline film, where all the English cricketers were ugly as sin, and the Australian batsman (who in real life had a face like a pissed off bulldog) looked like a filmstar (and a very good looking one too!)

Mentally, you prepare yourself for all the IRA men looking like languid poet/philosophers and all the Brits and prison officers having bad breath, shit personalities, sadistic meaness and being richly deserving of their summary executions.

Mind you, we had it coming after depicting Germans in such a bad way in the WW2 movies.

Achtung!


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 09:40 AM

Arran speaking of bigots if you are coming over here to the wee sick, do us a all a favour and leave your Ibrox Park buddies behind, we seen and heard a festival of bigotry when your Rangers fanatics were in Manchester.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 09:56 AM

weelittledrummer, you've made me smile with the way you put it - especially the bulldog/filmstar bit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: GUEST,G
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 10:28 AM

Achtung in deed WLD. I don't think the Sands film is about terrorists. It's about one guy devoted to his principles. Maybe they could make one about Arthur Harris and the bombing of Dresden if audiences want films about terrorists.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 10:42 AM

The film is not about terrorists. Steve McQueen did a lot of research before making this film.

The following is taken from guardian.co.uk

McQueen and Enda Walsh, with whom the artist co-wrote the script, interviewed a number of people affected by the events of 1981, including former prisoners, a priest and a prison officer - an experience that McQueen described as "overwhelming".

He said, "It's not a film about Bobby Sands in some ways; it is film that questions our own morality." Though he started work on the film before the outbreak of the Iraq war, he said, the contemporary parallels have become unavoidable. "It is history repeating itself, in a sense. The body as a weapon for people who are not being heard."


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 10:56 AM

I think the important words are people affected by the events of 1981 and a lot of people were affected, people both inside and outside the prison.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 12:36 PM

"I don't think the Sands film is about terrorists. It's about one guy devoted to his principles. Maybe they could make one about Arthur Harris and the bombing of Dresden if audiences want films about terrorists." - Guest G

I believe that it has already been done, although for teevision, with John Thaw playing Arthur Harris, from memory it was very good.

As for the "terrorist" label there is this taken from a very good book entitled "Tail-End Charlies":

"Perhaps the final word on the subject of the bomber war should be left to one of those most greatly affected by it, not an airman, a military leader or a politician, just a civilian. Mrs Joan lamberts, a Dutch woman, lived five years under the heel of a cruel conqueror. When the war was over, she wrote from her home in Arnhem to the RAF: 'During the occupation, the throb of your bombers overhead at night sounded like music in our ears. It was an anchor to which we clung in the dark days.'

As to the effectiveness of the assault on Germany that Harris was ordered to deliver here is what Albert Speer told his interrogators at Nurenburg. He told them that "there had been a shortage of manpower for armaments factories because so many workers had to be diverted to building air-raid shelters and clearing up the damage after attacks". It was Speer's opinion too that, had the Hamburg Blitz of 1943 been quickly followed up with attacks on another six German cities - as Harris had wanted to do but did not have the resources at that time - it would have crippled 'the will to sustain armament manufacture and war production, and brought about a rapid end to the war'. After Hamburg Speer knew that Germany had lost the war, that message was sent courtesy of "Bomber" Harris and the 125,000 men under his command of whom 55,573 aircrew paid with their lives. In the aftermath of war when everyone and his dog were receiving pats on the back and awards, Bomber Harris's "Old lags" got nothing, even though for four years they along with the US 8th Air Force were the only force that were taking the war to Germany. Harris was offered honours, but refused to accept any until the efforts of his men had been formally recognised.

To liken the work and effort that this man put into defeating what was without any shadow of a doubt the most evil regime on earth and to infer that this in some way was worse than the activities of some PIRA prat beggars description.

Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Harris, far from being a terrorist was probably one of the most capable and effective commanders of a fighting force in the Second World War.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 12:46 PM

Well maybe so, but I bet it didn't feel quite that good if you were in Hamburg or Dresden getting bombed to buggery.

Terrorist maybe not - but his work certainly inspired terror. And not in the hearts of Himmler and Hitler.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 01:07 PM

ard mhacha,

I am not a supporter of either RANGERS OR CELTIC as a matter of fact I'm not that keen on football, I like rugby I support Scotland and if I did like football I wouldn't supprt any of those bigoted teams anyway, I just don't like Rangers or Celtic, and I not a protestant or a catholic either I'm a Christian I follow Christ. So who is the bigot now.

I never was and never wiil be a bigot, and anyway who mentioned football anyway I just don't like football or soccer, I support as I said Scotland, Australia, and The Fremantle Dockers (Aussie rules football team).

I have never been to Ibrox or Celtic park and I wouldn't go there I had a choice.

Rangers and Celtic and there supporters well some of them are bigots.

so there you go.

facts wrong again I think ard mhacha, get yer facts right, I know that i have said some stuipd things but I have never been called a bigot, if I was why would I sing Irish rebel songs along with loylaist songs, I mean a bigot wouldn't do that sort of thing, and the wee band that'm in has both protestants and catholics in in it, I just see human beings and reglions.
SO GET THE I'm A BIGOT' OUT OF YOUR HEAD RIGHT NOW.

Just because I have a different view from you that makes it all right to say that I'm a bigot, where is you proof that I have said anything that is bigoted anyway.

but knowing you ard mhacha, you'll find something that I have siad that makes me a bigot.

but as i have said let bygones be bygones.

you have you views and I have mine.
Arran (not Rangers or Celtic supporter)

Oh and by the way I love to sing fields of Athenry, and because of that people think that I support Celtic along with my late father, wh also didn't support rangers or celtic he supported any scottish team.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Teribus
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 01:08 PM

Possibly not WLD, but maybe they could compare notes with people from Guernica; Warsaw; Rotterdam; London; Coventry; Plymouth; Portsmouth; Clydebank; etc; etc.

As he walked round Coventry, the morning after the attack, Churchill swore that it would repaid a thousand times over - "Bomber" Harris and his "Old Lags" delivered.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 01:09 PM

I was brought up as an athiest, so how can I be a bigot If I didn't support God.

and When Rangers where in Mnchester I wasn't there and I could give a damn wither they won or lost the same goes for Celtic when they where in europe.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 01:12 PM

Well to tell the truth, I support any Scottish sports team/star no matter what their religion is. I just don't support terrorist either LOYIST OR REPUBLICAN.

now do you think that rangers bigot wouls would say that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 01:19 PM

I support God and Christ, who you support, just because I don't support any terrorist group on either side republican or loyalist doesn't make me a bigot.

so let bygones be bygones


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: GUEST,G
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 01:21 PM

Terbus why are supporting this action ? The bombing of Dresden by the RAF 12 weeks before the surrender of the German army (not after Coventry as you say) remains one of the most controversial actions of the Second World War. The raids saw 1,300 heavy bombers drop over 3,900 tons of high-explosive bombs and incendiary devices in four raids, destroying 13 square miles of the city.

Estimates of civilian casualties were between 24,000 and 40,000.

Dresden was a cultural landmark of little or no military significance, the attacks were indiscriminate and not proportional for the commensurate military gains.

In the first few decades after the war, some death toll estimates were as high as 250,000. It constituted a war crime. The raids continue to be included among the worst examples of civilian suffering EVER.

YET AGAIN TERIBUS YOU EXPOSE YOURSELF AS THE ULTIMATE ASREHOLE OF MUDCAT.


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: goatfell
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 01:25 PM

anyway what has two bigoted teams got to do with a bloody film?


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Subject: RE: BS: Bobby Sands hunger strike film
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 03 Jun 08 - 01:47 PM

You see Teribus - exposed as an azure hole.

Try not to feel blue about it........


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