BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers

Subject: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Dazbo
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 08:52 AM

Well I enjoyed it (althought the last part was hard going - a grown man crying over a children's book tut tut!!).

As soon as Harry was asked to be god father I knew Remus and Tonks wouldn't survive. Shame about Fred though.

How did Neville end up with Gryffindor's sword? I must have missed that bit. The last I remember is the goblin disappearing with it.

Not much to laugh at in this book though Mrs Weasley going for Bellatrix made me smile.

Nice touch to have one of Harry and Ginny's sons named Albus Severus.

I think I'm going to have to read the last 70 pages again.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Bainbo
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 09:07 AM

A pretty chilling depiction of a country living under Nazi rule, everyone but the elite in constant fear, people being carted off. Good battle scene at the start. Epic, Lord-of-The-Rings-scale battle at the end. And - for those who've accused the books of being anti-Christian - the most explicitly Christian imagery yet.

But why the twee all-lived-happily-ever-after epilogue? I know it's a kids' book, but ... why?

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 09:12 AM

First, JKR has said all along that they are NOT kids' books.

Secondly, why not? It's a series about good triumphing over evil.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 09:20 AM

Haven't read this thread as in common with many others, I have not read the book yet. I think it's a bit arrogant and one-uppish to start this thread at this early stage.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Bainbo
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 09:21 AM

You're quite right, of course, Rapaire. I just felt the epilogue jarred with the tone of the rest of the book, and didn't really add anything. It didn't tell us whether Harry did, in fact become an Auror; or what happened to the Dursleys; or anything we might want to know.

I was simply a bit disappointed that it was something of an anti-climax after the triumphal finale.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 09:32 AM

Harry became an accountant and Ginny a "soccer mom" driving a minivan. Ron became a wastrel and Hermione his mistress.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 09:35 AM

Seriously, there are those who feel that the ending to "Huck Finn" was a "feel good ending." I don't, for reasons too long to detail here.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Bainbo
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 09:37 AM

Ah! It all makes sense now.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Crystal
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 10:35 AM

Anyone else notice that the last word wasn't "scar".
The one truth, announced by JKR herself about book 7 and it was false! I was most upset!
I nearly cried at the Mrs Weasly/Bellatrix fight though, so sweet!
The epilogue was dreadful, twee and very, very dull!

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 11:36 AM

Indeed - since I'd been so sure hermione would die, it was a surprise ending to me! And I was sorry about the epilog, too. Why 19 years later?

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Dazbo
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 11:48 AM

Giok, not trying to be one-uppish but due to lack of work at the moment I've been able to finish it quicker than I would usually and can't discuss it with friends yet as they haven't finished it.

Crystal, JK had said in interviews, prior to the release, in the UK that she had changed it so the the last word wasn't scar anymore.

Whilst the epilogue wasn't the best part it was nice to know that Harry and co (even Draco) had got on with their lives.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 01:04 PM

Even if Harry becomes an accountant, Draco an attorney, and Ron a wastrel.

(There's a new TV show coming out in the fall based on the epilogue, which deals with Ginny, Hermione, and the rest of the gals. It'll be called "Desperate Hogwives."

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: KB in Iowa
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 01:13 PM

I read the last 25 pages last night. It might have made more sense if I had read the previous 4100 pages first but I wanted to know who died. I guessed right, really.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 02:07 PM

"HP7 - Opinions?"

Whew. I thought this was about the sauce and that some turkey in marketing had convinced management to change the recipe. However, it's good to know all's right with the world!

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 02:57 PM

I prefer Whatsthisheresauce?

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 03:31 PM

I likes 'em both.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: DMcG
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 05:22 PM

I saw plenty of predictions who who die, but I don't think anyone predicted the first 'H' to go!

The last book depended heavily on book 1 and book 6, but I'm not so sure books 2-5 played that much part in book 7, apart from introducing more characters.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 05:31 PM

The Whatsitcalled Sauce reminds me of my late X's favorite pianist, Ripsercorsetoff.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Amergin
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 07:15 PM

Yeah, I would like to know what Harry Potter did after all this...I don't think he became an auror though...I think he had had enough of that crap through the years of fighting Voldemort and his goons...and yes I saw alot of parallels between what was going on in his world and Nazi Germany....and while it owuld be interesting to find out about the Dursleys and Hermione's parents...they really had nothing to do with the book...and so in the end would have been irrelevant...

I think the 19 years later part was to show that every one else got on with their lives and had families of their own....but one thing I don't get is how come if it was 19 years later Teddy is still going to Hogwarts? Shouldn't he have been out of school by that time?

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 09:42 PM

Held back a few years, I'd think....

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Peace
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 10:33 PM

Yeah. But he did very well in spelling I heard.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 11:18 PM

I wondered about Teddy too. Something about the math didn't seem to work right there.

The flaw in the diamond....

Warmly,
Dan

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: bfdk
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:49 AM

Nah... it's not flawed. Teddy wasn't on the platform to *travel* to Hogwarts, he was there to see Victoire off..

" '-and he said he'd come to see her off!', page 605 :-)

Best wishes,

Bente (who enjoyed the book tremendously)

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Megan L
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 05:05 AM

Well this contained no spoilers for me I started to read the very first book got so bored I gave it away.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 06:31 AM

I would have liked more detail about what had happened to everyone else as well. If you're going to bother with an epilogue, might as well do it properly (unless, of course, you're simply setting the scene for a new series of "next generation" books...)

After Harry's experiences with Dumbledore's Army, I thought he might become a teacher...

I knew Snape was a good guy. But I thought Ron was going to die.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Rapparee
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 09:15 AM

Everyone died except Moldy Voldy. He's now the US VP.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: MMario
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 09:32 AM

I'm thoroughly enjoying the book so far, though a little upset with the first death. The burial at Shell Cottage really got to me though.

As far as Tonk's parents didn't POTTERWATCH announce Ted's capture and death?

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: alanabit
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 11:58 AM

Yes. That burial scene caused some blotches on my copy! I did not forsee the moost important death at the end though. Great book though. Enjoyed every page.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Cluin
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:13 PM

"NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH!"

I think JKR forgot she was writing a kid's book. Whatever her declarations that the HP books aren't kid's books, they certainly were in the beginning and she knows damn well that kids all over the planet are gobbling them up.

I found it a bit disappointing after the build-up. Can't fault the author for that though. But I think the backstory on Dumbledore could've been better done; it was kind of anticlimactic.

And I think we all knew Snape was really a double-agent so no surprises there, though his death again was anticlimactic.

But all-in-all, a good weekend's read in the deck chair with a few cold beers.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Cluin
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 04:21 PM

...like I wasn't gonna read it anyway, whatever was written in it.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Cluin
Date: 24 Jul 07 - 08:26 PM

But I was waiting for a credible explanation of exactly why it was that Wizarding families were so damned ignorant of what went on in the Muggle world. Would they really not have televisions or electricity? Cars, I can see. I hate the fact that I have to own one, myself.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 04:10 AM

Neville got the sword from the Sorting Hat, the same way Harry got it when he slew the basilisk in Book 2.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Dazbo
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:27 AM

Thanks Cluin, I'd re-read the ending and saw that bit. Must have not registered when I read it the first time

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 06:58 AM

I've always thought that too, Cluin. The wizarding world is chocka with Muggle-borns. If you were going to run a Ministry, would you appoint people like Mr Weasley when they haven't got a bloody clue? Appoint a few Muggle-borns, who can change a plug and even know how to operate a microwave. Problem solved.

It's one of those places where the conceit unravels a bit for me...

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: maire-aine
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 12:45 PM

I finished it at 2:00AM this morning. I was pretty satisfied with the ending, but I sure wish I could've had a "Potter encyclopedia" at my side. A lot of the details ran together after a while. I suppose I'll re-read the series again-- some time when I have free time. One of my favorite scenes was when Kreacher arrived with all the house-elves.

Maryanne

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Amergin
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 02:55 PM

I would have liked to know what happened with George...with Fred gone...did he carry on with the business?

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 25 Jul 07 - 11:23 PM

Apparently a Potter Encyclopedia is in our future, and all of these loose ends will be tied up.
Here's a link.

Dan Schatz

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: harpmolly
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 12:33 AM

Loved it. Hated it. Loved it, hated it, lovedithateditlovedithatedit...

OK, as you can tell, I'm a little conflicted. ;)

Lots of amazing moments--the Harry/Ginny kiss (not to mention the LONG-awaited Ron/Hermione connection), Neville slaying Nagini, Dobby's funeral (sob!), the return of Percy, Molly vs. Bellatrix, and of course the Snape denouement.

On the other hand...the last few chapters seemed rushed to me. I would much rather have had another scene in the immediate aftermath, instead of the abrupt shift to 19 years later. And Ginny really got the shaft--for someone who has been described by the author as a "powerful witch", she didn't get much to do. I suppose I should just be grateful JKR didn't kill her off! ;)

And speaking of killing people off...Fred completely broke my heart (I really want to know how George coped and whether W.W.W. continued), but at least Fred's death had some weight to it. Lupin and Tonks seemed sort of gratuitously tacked on the end, like "Oh, and incidentally...". From a literary perpective, it was deeply unsatisfying...no details on how/when/who. I think Lupin deserved better.

But I'm not obsessing. Really. :P

Molly

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: diesel
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 11:35 AM

At last !

Freedom to talk about the ending, I hogged the book and finished it - only to find not being able to talk to my teenager son after it - he's getting there now though.

I don't think the epilogue was too bad, in fact probably relieved as the battle scenes had me exhausted. Knowing that life continued on is, I think, the important bit. To detail out the post-battle I think would have been to much. Better to skip to the future and close.

I'll want to re-read the books again to tie the looser ends together -
but probably never will. Instead I'll just be happy that the book was worth the wait.

Not for kids ? It started for Kids who have now grown up...but yes the language of 'Bit*h' and 'Basta*d' I found though understanable, for a young adult to use - was no need for it in a book that younger kids will read.

AS for HP - Order of Phoenix film - Didn't like the inclusion of the NIKE stripe on Dudley's top - Ouch gone all commercial now....A pity

rgds

Diesel

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 12:14 PM

I think I would have had a little less "apparating about the countryside looking for mushrooms to eat because we didn't think to bring any food" -- that portion seemed to drag on forever and more time spent both in the final battles (very rushed) and the epilog...

and I think Percy should have been the Weasley to die - sure , let him redeem himself and return to the bosom of his family - but through a self-sacrificing death - which would have fit with the whole "love conquers all and redeems all" theme.

My opinons, of course, YMMV

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Rasener
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 12:17 PM

Quote from harpmolly
>>I really want to know how George coped<<


Here is the answer George

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Dazbo
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 12:38 PM

I expect he had one of his extendable ears permanently attached now he's got room for it:-)

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Cluin
Date: 26 Jul 07 - 11:12 PM

Personally I don't think Rowling writes battles and big action scenes all that well, at least not as well as she handles the yarn-spinning and character development. I saw no need for the big finale battle scene at Hogwarts. Figure she was influenced by the movies there, wanting to compete with/imitate LOTR. Would have preferred less big battling and more story

Agree the flitting about the countryside, not accomplishing much dragged on, too. After they finally destroyed the locket horcrux, I looked at the position it happened in the book and thought "Shit, that was half the book! They still need to get 4 more horcruxes and still kill Voldemort too!"

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Les B
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 12:43 AM

The final duel between Harry and Voldemort seemed to be intentionally written with iconic cinematic elements - the final shootout of a western movie for one thing, and although I was surprised at Molly Weasly's language - (NOT MY DAUGHTER, YOU BITCH !) - that seemed to come straight from of one of the strongest scenes in the "Alien" films, where Sigourney Weaver gets in a robotic machine and fights the alien predator, using almost the same words, "GET AWAY FROM HER YOU BITCH!"

Although I haven't seen it confirmed anywhere, my daughter claims she heard that J.K. Rowling may start a new book with the words to the effect of - "After nineteen years, Harry's scar mysteriously began hurting again...."

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Cluin
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 12:58 AM

Yeah, I flashed on "Aliens" at that point too, Les.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Rowan
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 01:53 AM

Daughter number one got her copy at 9am (Eastern Standard Time in Oz) and, despite playing one netball game, coaching another and watching an hour of Dr Who. managed to finish it 16.5 hours later. The only laugh I heard I asked her about and she quoted the Potterwatch comment on "moving faster than Snape confronted by shampoo". She thought it a good read and, without letting me in on the contents, mentioned that "everything was explained by the end."

I suppose I'm so inured to the use of language inherited from Anglo-Saxons that Mrs Weasley's expostulation didn't faze me at all. I recall hearing some literature critic (who reportedly writes for the Guardian) being interviewed on ABC Radio National and describing the Potter series as one-dimensional writing. Well, to my mind, there's a place for esoteric literature and there's a place for ripper yarns; for me, the Potter series is a great sequence of ripper yarns. Having been around the traps for a while I could, if I so chose, read all sorts of resonances and meanings into them and I dare say there'll be more than one PhD on the published texts, let alone any drafts that may come to light. Good luck to such people; I don't need to go there.

Cheers, Rowan

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Dazbo
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 06:33 AM

As to it not being literature all I can say is that I've had my nose in books since I was about 8 and if there is one thing that's guarenteed to put me off a book is it being described as literature! I want a book to tell an interesting story that grips me, not what some lah-di-dah, up-yer-bum critic says is a fine piece of art. I learnt my lesson the hard way: most of the lauded books I've tried have been almost unreadable!

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Ruth Archer
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 06:40 AM

I also thought the deaths of Lupin and Tonks were not well developed. Nor was the death of Hedwig, or at least Harry's response to it! And yes, Ginny was a disappointment as a character...so much potential, but never really developed.

I think Rowling is quite hit-and-miss as a writer. The books are good entertaimnment, but have some pretty significant flaws. I'd partially agree with the Guardian writer who said that they are one-dimensional - in some places, and with regard to certain characters, they definitely are. But on balance, the story has kept me gripped and there were enough satisfying bits to have made the journey worthwhile.

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 10:11 AM

I have to say there are some parallels with Terry Pratchett. When TP got a contract with Gollancz to publish a certain number of Discworld books in a certain number of year (I think it was one a year for 7 years), the quality went down considerably. There are a group of 3-4 books in the middle of the series that are really not as good as they could be and are just vehicles for one very VERY bad pun. As soon as the contract ran out, there was a 2-3 year gap between books and the quality improved tremendously.

I have a strong suspicion (and experiences) that 'writing to order' puts unfair pressure on an author which results in work that may not be as good as previous pieces. Great gaping holes in plots may escape an author when they're writing against the calendar. Although I have loved every single one of the Potter books, I can't help but feel there is material enough for another couple of books, just filling in all the gaps in the first 7 - a bit like 'The Silmarillion' and 'Unfinished Tales' does for 'The Lord of the Rings'. I for one would love to hear more about the original Order of the Phoenix and the first rising of Voldemort.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: HP7 - Opinions? Contains Spoilers
From: MMario
Date: 27 Jul 07 - 10:19 AM

And I'd love a 'Historical" couple of books set around the founders of Hogwarts.