BS: The Jena 6 Controversy

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Peace
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 04:06 PM

MATH QUIZ

"About half the nation's 2.2 million prisoners are black." If that same statistic were applied to non-Blacks, what would the number be?

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 03:56 PM

And the ratio of whites to non-whites in the several States' populations is....?

And the differences in sentancng between whites and non-whites convicted is?

& etc.

A case of lies, damned lies & statistics, it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 02:13 PM

A lot of nonsense is written about African-American treatment in the courts in the South. If one looks at the statistics, compiled in a lead article by "The Black Commentator," African-American incarceration by percentage:
          Ratio of Black to White prisoners
Wisconsin               11.60
Iowa                   11.60
Texas                   5.14
Oklahoma                4.63
Arizona                  5.24
Delaware                6.56
Nevada                   4.29
Oregon                   6.03
California               5.87
Colorado                6.98
For a number of other reasons, the states listed above are considered to be the worst for incarceration of Blacks, in spite of higher ratios in New York and Illinois. Read the article for details, link below.

Mississippi             4.12
Louisiana                5.94
Alabama                  4.50
S. Carolina             4.99
Georgia                  4.14
Maryland                6.8
N. Carolina             6.08
Delaware                6.56
Virginia                6.28
Tennessee                5.08
NEW YORK                9.47
Arkansas                4.48
ILLINOIS                7.53

All eleven southern states lock up noticeably higher per capita numbers of their whole populations, black, white and otherwise, than do New York and Illinois. But southern rates of disparity between black and white imprisonment do not approach those of Illinois at 7.5 to one or New York's 9.5 to one. The article concludes that 'the Old South' is just not a good place to be poor, whether one is black or white.

Ten Worst Places to be Black

In New York, African-Americans and Latinos constitute 25% of the population, but 83% of all New York state prisoners are African-American. Drug convictions skew the NY figures somewhat, but are about 20% of the total.
For New York figures, see New York

Alan Bean belongs with Sharpton and that ilk; much talk, little substance.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 12:57 PM

That's really the million dollar question, Riginslinger--why did the prosecutor do what he did?

Prosecutors often have political ambitions--and there will always be enthusiatic support from some quarters for anyone who takes a "tough" stand on a controversial issue, especially if it is a racial issue. It is probably not fair to jump to that conclusion, but it is Louisiana......

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: pdq
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 12:25 PM

"It was never clear to me why the DA brought charges of attempted murder to begin with..."

It is very common for the DA to file higher charges because:

               1. the suspect is expected to confess to a lesser charge

               2. a judge or jury can always reduce the charges

               3. once filed, the charges cannot be raised, only lowered

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Riginslinger
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 09:21 AM

It was never clear to me why the DA brought charges of attempted murder to begin with, or is that just something the media threw in for hype?

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 12:41 AM

As to PDQs comment--based on eyewitness accounts, it is not clear who struck Justin Barker. The only adult to witness the incident named another individual, Malcolm Shaw, as the assailant--however the defense attorney didn't call him to testify. Other witnesses claim that a person wearing a green jacket, struck the blow. Bell was wearing a black jacket. These points were not presented to the jury--and they might have changed the verdict--

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: M.Ted
Date: 30 Sep 07 - 12:02 AM

Q, I assume that you are referring to the link I posted above. The website is not a "blog"--it is the home of Friends of Justice--it is a criminal justice reform organization, and the group that the families of the Jena 6 turned for assistance when the legal system failed them.

Rev. Alan Bean, a Baptist minister, heads the organization, and went to Jena to observe the trial, to investigate the situation, and to assemble resources. What you read there is the result of on the scene investigation , interviews with witnesses, examination of police records, and an eye witness reporting of the events. It is highly credible.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: pdq
Date: 29 Sep 07 - 10:24 PM

Repeat: Mychal Bell was convicted of aggravated battery. That is exactly what he did. What is the big problem?

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Sep 07 - 10:18 PM

To repeat, Bell was on probation, and had been convicted of previous assaults and property damage. Only his football ability was keeping him out of custody.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Sep 07 - 08:32 PM

Assault and battery is not a crime?
Only one was imprisoned, not six.
The blog is just that- without credibility.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: M.Ted
Date: 29 Sep 07 - 06:27 PM

A fairly good case can be made that the Jena Six were charged with a crime, imprisoned, and prosecuted as a retaliation, by the prosecutor, for leading protests related to the "noose" incident--and in fact, that is the fundamental issue here. Check the link that I posted above for more information on what happened, and didn't happen, at the trial.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: fumblefingers
Date: 29 Sep 07 - 01:35 AM

When I lived in Jena, LA the locals called the place Jean uh.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 05:45 PM

Jena was named for the place where Napoleon won victory. But these names adopt either French or English pronunciation in Louisiana, depending on which group is dominant.
Originally it would have had the French pronunciation, or Jheh-na, not the German of the city near which Napoleon won (Yeh-na). I have not heard reliably how it is pronounced now. Irish, English and German ancestors are probably most prominent among the townspeople now.
It is in LaSalle Parish, named for Rene Robert Cavelier, Sieur de la Salle.
LaSalle Parish Court is in Jena.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Bobert
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 05:24 PM

Well stated, Greg...

Until the grown ups start enforcing civil rights laws the underlying message to everyone, regardless of race, is that Jim Crow is just peachy dandy with those who have the power... Especially in the rural South...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 03:52 PM

I only know opacity. Obtusity is too geometric.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 03:38 PM

Thanks. I don't always recognize obtusion when I see it. obtusity. obtusiveness?

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 03:21 PM

Lonesome EJ,

No, you were not being obtuse. Obviously I was, because the point I was making was that others were being purposely obtuse to not have gotten the point you were clearly making.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 03:05 PM

I have no wish to get involved in the main issues that are driving this discussion, but...

I can't help but note that the town's name, Jena, is being pronounced "Jeena" by people on the news. "Jean-ah".

Strange, because I think the name came from a place in central Europe near where Napoleon fought a big battle with the Prussians, and the people there pronounce it "Yay-nah". The "J" is pronounced like we pronounce a "Y", the "e" is pronounced like "eh". YAY-NAH.

Of course, Jesus wasn't really called "Jesus" back then either. He was probably called "Yeshua". And the Spanish-speaking people nowadays call him "Hay-SOOS", while some other people call him "YAY-SOO" and others prefer to think he never even existed. Well, these things tend to change in translation as they move around, right? ;-)

That's it. My one and only comment here about Jena. You may now all continue debating.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: M.Ted
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 02:52 PM

Here is an article written immediately after the trial last summer. It refutes some of the "facts" posted above, but, more importantly, it gives a detailed picture of what has happened, and why. What Blane Williams should have known

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Greg B
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 01:09 PM

John Hardly, how can anything be an INJUSTICE TO THE CIVIL RIGHTS
MOVEMENT OF THE 60S, as you shout so loudly? It was a movement, not a
person. Why should that even be a concern?

There is a parallel to that period, in that the fight here is about
institutionalized racism and the practical racism of public officials
in the American South.

There's another parallel in that the 'movement' of the 60's had
both pacifist and violent undertones and overtones.

There is a difference between now and the 60's in that the racism
which is currently at issue is not set down in law. In fact, the
law seems to forbid it.

Where Civil Rights movements have failed, and continue to fail, is
in resolving the sort of insidious racism (and the faulty conscienses
which underlie it). In Jena, we have the perfect examples:

1. That in this day and age there should be permitted in a school
   a culture where such a thing as a 'white tree' could exist.
2. That in this day and age ANY young person of high school age
   should believe for one moment that the presentation of a noose
   in a tree to an African American isn't a crime.
3. The institutional racism that had the school board not just
   reinstate the expelled culprits, but actually reduced the
   punishment to little more than a slap on the wrist.
4. The institutional racism that has the Jena DA finding ways
   to justify not prosecuting a clear hate crime while 'throwing
   the book' at a young African American man who, by all appearances,
   was caught up in the aftermath of the hate crime
5. The institutional racism which has an African American Bush
   Administration official unwilling to go out on a limb (you'll
   pardon the pun) to prosecute the noose-hangers.

Jena makes it clear that, for all the trappings of equality, the
hearts and the minds of the white population have not been won,
at least not in places like Jena. That although the laws have
changed, those who uphold it aren't willing, for various reasons,
to do so.

That is the tragedy of Jena--- and it belongs on the front page
with Al Sharpton standing on the courthouse steps and calling it
what it is.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 12:23 PM

Was I being obtuse, John? That's usually not one of my traits.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 11:24 AM

Seems some people can't quit being purposefully obtuse. The point Lonesome EJ seems to be making (as I see it, anyway) is not that it wasn't a royal screw-up with racist undertones. The point is that this is not the equivalent of the behaviors OR intent of the 60s civil rights movement and it is a terrible and irrational INJUSTICE TO THE CIVIL RIGHTS MOVEMENT OF THE 60S TO CLAIM ANY PARALLEL.

Further, these thugs stand for NOTHING that any civil, rational person would wish to stand behind.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Greg B
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 11:15 AM

The cost of having the school groundskeeper remove the
nooses represents a dollar-value, if the prosecutor
wanted to see it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Janie
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 01:29 AM

Well Beaubear,   

I don't think it is as simple as that, and I don't think we are on exactly the same page on this one. However, I am also realizing (again) that this is the wrong forum (small f) on which for me to be writing. (I just deleted another one of my too long posts on which I have spent way too much time editing and reworking.) I have no mastery of the 'pithy comment', insufficient wit, and no musical expertise or talent sufficient to give me enough 'stock' to reasonably expect others to put up with them here. There are many lively discussions on a number of social issues that occur here, and for a long time I successfully resolved to read them with interest and keep my windbag mouth shut. I ain't as bad as the Shambles, but I am as rambling, and I am definitely not as impervious, so I'm gonna shut my trap and renew my resolve to stay off of these threads until I fergit again.

Later gater.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Sep 07 - 12:16 AM

Not the way I read it, Q. It just says what the punishment should be according to dollar amount of vandalism, defacement, and/or "otherwise damaging" such property:

(1) When the damage is less than five hundred dollars, the offender shall be fined not more than five hundred dollars, or imprisoned for not more than six months, or both.

Higher dollar amounts, more punishment, the way I read it.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 10:37 PM

The way I read that statute is that there must be a dollar value to the vandalism.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: M.Ted
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 10:05 PM

There is a law in LA, Louisiana Statute RS 14:225, which makes institutional vandalism a crime, and it was specifically intended to deal with defacing of schools, churches, and other institutions with hate symbols--Given that decorating a tree with toilet paper is considered an act of vandalism, it is certainly arguable that hanging nooses in a tree is an act of vandalism as well.

A different prosecutor might have interpreted the law much differently than Mr. Walters did. Perhaps, if he had known that this would become a national issue, he would have interpretted it differently, as well.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 09:29 PM

'cept hangin' nooses....

Nobody has a right to do that, especially in the South where it is equivelent to burnin' a cross in yer front yard...

Come to think of it, other than trespassin', burnin' a cross in someone's front yard ain't illegal in most Southern states...

This is what I mean by "hate crimes"... If more Southern prosecutors had the balls to bring charges agianst the Jim Crowists then alot of the Jiom Crow stuff would eventually stop... But they aren't... They are elected and worried about getting re-elected and that means letting white folks do what ever they want lond as no "niggers" ain't actually killed.... And if a "nigger" is killed then better cover your tracks...

That's the way it is in the South...

Talk about a War in Terrorism... It oughta be fought in the Soputh before trying in out elsewhere....

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Greg B
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 09:18 PM

Heck, Bobert, law enforcement can prosecute just about anybody
they want, particularly those who have limited rights and resources
to fight them.

They just call it 'disorderly conduct' (which, insofar as I can tell,
amounts to doing anything a cop doesn't want you to do, including
things you have a perfect right to do).

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Bobert
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 04:26 PM

Mick,

You must not live or worked in rural South or you would know that presecutors, unless there is some high level of scrutiny do purdy much what ever they like...

Here in Page County a black kid was arrested for wearing a mask while driving a motor scotter... Is there such a law against it??? No, but the commonwealth's attorney held the kid for several months until it fianlly made the news... Kids are arrested for all kinds of dumbass things that adults never thought needed to be codified...

The prosecutor ***could*** have found something to haul these white kids in on and threatened to prosecute them with a statement that in his or her opinion these actions were at the very least hateful... Actually, I believe that the noose represents a "battery" in terms of most law...

Janie,

Yeah, I've made the same point as you have about the situation in Jena being an opportunity... Problem is, if things in that area are like things around here, there is no will by the white adults to have the schools do much in the way havfing a discussion on race... Plus, I know several local teachers and these folks just wouldn't have a clue...

But at least some of the adults here are making an attempt to have this discussion becuase it is long overdue... What I am afraid of, however, is that most white adults really would rather it just go away... Plus, the right wing has hammered programs aimed at leveling the playing field that alot of white adults think it's perfectly okay not to have the discussion...

But one thing one can take to the bank and that is that Jenas won't just go away 'cause Jim Crow ain't dead yet...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Greg B
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 02:13 PM

A terribly flawed analogy if I've ever read one.

EJ, the fact of life is that we have to deal with how people
actually behave, not how we would have them behave. It does no
good to, for example, rage against the Rodney King rioters after
you allow the LAPD to, for decades, get away with beating on
people of color, then move the trial of a group of conspicuously
guilty ones out to a white suburb, and acquit them.

If, as the more powerful group, you do all the things that create
interracial rage, you don't get to go 'tut tut tut' when, as
surely as night follows day, that rage gets expressed in awful
and even unjust (by your rules) ways.

So whatever side you come down on regarding Mr. Bell's behavior
or his guilt or innocent, you've failed miserably if you don't
take a hard look at the conditions set up by those in power which
contribute to the creation of angry young men.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 12:46 PM

Or as the man said as he beat his wife "sorry honey, it ain't me doin' this. It's all the other women that done me wrong."

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Greg B
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 11:55 AM

I'll rise to the challenge to comment on Reed Walters (the Jena DA's)
apologia in the New York Times.

Mr. Walters strikes me as making an excellent closing argument,
doing a fine job of presenting himself as a well-meaning public
officials whose hands are tied by law and regulation.

A regular hero of jurisprudence.

Who gives new meaning to the term 'self-serving.' He, and his
colleague in the US Attorney's office.

I'm sure that Messrs. Sharpton and Jackson would point out that
whereas the KKK did their work with burning cross, noose, and
shotgun, any number of Southern public officials have done theirs
with a sheaf of papers, an off-the-rack suit, and an air of genteel
Southern civility. While passing literacy requirements, poll taxes,
and so forth. Whether it's Jim Crow, or James Crow Esq. JD, though
it's all the same. It's just that some thugs have paneled offices.

I don't by Walters' argument isn't a 'hate crime.' A hate crime
is committed, at the Federal level, when someone "by force or threat
of force willfully injures, intimidates or interferes with... any
person because of his race, color, religion or national origin and
because he is or has been" attempting to engage in one of six types of federally protected activities, such as voting or going to school."
(See Wikipedia)

It seems fairly clear to me, by simple inspection, that the hanging
of a lynching noose in response to an African American sitting under
the 'white tree' at his high school pretty well fulfills that
provision of 'threat of force' and it's enumerated that going to
school (with full freedom to participate in everything and be
anywhere any other student can be) is a protected activity.

That, as Walters states: "the United States attorney for the Western
District of Louisiana, who is African-American, found no federal law
against what was done" makes it fairly clear why this particular US
Attorney was spared by Gonzales purge. Apparently the defendant isn't
the only one who was found useful for his ability to play ball. That
he's African American says less about his credibility than it does
about his inability to remember just how it was that an African
American ever was able to rise to a position such as his.

The whole scenario is a classic, one used by racist or sectarian
governments everywhere: you ignore injustice after injustice
perpetrated upon the group who are the objects of persecution.
The inevitable outcome is that the group, or individuals from
that group, will retaliate. Either in some organized way, or
in some sort of angry outburst.

Now the outburst may be against a member of the 'elite' group
who turns out to be innocent. Everyone decries that--- but then
again does it ever occur to those who steeple their hands and
cry 'foul' that those to whom injustice was routinely dealt
were probably just as innocent? No.

And the perpetrator of said vengeance may have a checkered past--- he
may be 'an angry young man.' Of course, guys like DA Walters will
tell you that it's not their job to look at how the community
which they've served have spent 15 or 20 years manufacturing
those 'angry young men.' No, they're supposed to 'uphold the law,
and nothing but the law.'

Never mind that they and their cronies been running the "angry young
man" factory themselves, via selective prosecutions, via 'not finding' any violation of civil rights laws in threats of lynchings, via
turning expulsions into slaps on the wrists, and on and on.

We can find thousands of examples, from the roots of American
Independence, and Irish independence, to the Rodney King riots
in LA and those that went before in Detroit, Watts, Newark,
and so on.

The law is beautifully civil and articulate both when it turns its
back on society's second- and third-class citizens, as well as when
it prosecutes them when they respond with the kind of violence and
injustice which has been done to them.

As Woody Guthrie once said "Some will rob you with a six gun---
and some with a fountain pen."

Or as the Who said: "The men who spurred us on, sit in judgment
of our wrongs."

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Janie
Date: 27 Sep 07 - 12:50 AM

LEJ,

I am a bit stunned at the rancor of your response to my post. If my post sounds sanctimonious to you or to others, I apologize. that is not my intent. However, the post was not directed to you or anyone else in particular. The post reflects my own thoughts and reactions to the over-all thread to that point.

I have gone back and read the post several times now. It still reflects my wholistic impression and reactions to the thread to that point. I must note that I did not call you or anyone else a racist, nor did I say anything to make any attempt to imply that. Niether did I assert that the 6 black kids in Jena, or Mychal Bell in particular, are courageous volunteers. Nor did I sulk or pout.

I do wish I had said "....Black or white, none of us are consciously racist." Perhaps that is why you interpreted the post as sanctimonious. Perhaps that is what you are referring to when you accuse me of calling you a racist.

After reading Q's linked article, my view is unchanged. In my view, the phenomenon of The Jena 6 is a sociopolitical entity where the sum is greater than the parts. The people of Jena must feel like roadkill on the turnpike headed for that somewhat mythical terminus of real social justice and equality regardless of differences in race, class or ethnic group. I can sympathize. I have personally been roadkill on the same highway, and shared that story a while back on a different thread about affirmative action, or a similar topic. Individual justice and social justice are not always mutually inclusive. That simply reflects the realities of the tension of the the interdependent relationship between the individual and society.

Mick, there have been a number of opportunities for 'teaching moments' in this. I think it is necessary to ponder why all those opportunities were missed. I don't think it likely anyone involved made like Johnny Depp in whichever Pirates movie it was and said, "Ah yes, I just love those moments. I like to wave to them as they pass by." Your perception (and mine, and probably the perception of most people who have posted to this thread) is that those opportunities were 'shoulds.' It might be more fruitful to reframe them as 'coulds.'

The Jena 6 is now at the level of national discussion, I believe, because of both the reality of institutional racism and also the perception of institutional racism. Perception is every bit as potent as reality. And that perception has to be dealt with on a societal level.

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Dogwhistle
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 11:07 PM

Indeed, as Peace has stated, red-line on the tachometers.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Peace
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 10:56 PM

Gentlemen, you have started your engines. But the motors are over-revving.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 10:51 PM

Bobert, take a pill. And you are hardly one to talk about being preachy. I am tickled to death that you are "in the streets". I hear that all the time from you. Funny, I never see you there. Perhaps you could come on out and give me a hand with ICE. We could always use another body with these Homeland Security boys.

As to "sticking to the letter of the law", perhaps, in you're brilliance, you could figure out how the prosecutor could prosecute someone for breaking a law they didn't break. I agree that what was done was hateful, and should be a crime. It just isn't, and you can't make one up. If we allow that to be done on these knuckleheads, how do we stop it when they do it to us?

As to my opinions being better than yours, sounds like a bit of envy to me. I have never contended my opinions are anything more than just that. My opinions, offered up for the scrutiny of all here. Your reading something more into that speaks more about you than me.

And you have a nice life too. But do me a favor, see if you can do it with a little more of that phoney country boy accent. I do so enjoy that.

Why I let guys like you suck me into this shit, I'll never know. Gotta go now, the street calls. Hope to see you there.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 09:58 PM

Mick,

We have a governemnt thaqt has suspended some 700 years of accepted law here in suspending habeas corpes... If our copuntry can do that then, by golly, the white ***adults*** can figure out a way to stop white kids from practicing Jim Crow...

Yeah, stick with the "letter of the law" all you want... It's comforting for folks who don't have the balls to stand up to racism and Jim Crow...

I'm bored with yer brand of politics as I'm sure you are with mine...

And I don't need no "Big Mick Testimonials" about just why your opinions are better than mine... I've been in the streets, too... So spare me...

And lastly, have a nice life... You have become the new "Dickey" in my life...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 09:24 PM

Perhaps it is you that needs to do a little research before you make pronouncements, Bobert. What these young folks did isn't classed a hate crime. You are mixing what seems right, with what the law is. Hate crimes in the code can only be used to enhance a violation of the law, and hanging a noose from the tree isn't a violation of the law.

And I find your suggestion just as ludicrous as the suggestion that this all popped up months later and the black kids are just thugs. Neither of those suggestions would do anything to break the cycle that is going on here.

This community had it in their power to resolve this in a way that would have had a positive effect. But they didn't have the will or desire. Shame on them.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 08:38 PM

You know, this situation wouldn't have grown into what it has become if the "noosers" had been been charged with real crimes... "Nooser" are hatefilled people and that is why we have a "hate crime" laws on the books...

It isn't at all helpfull when black kids see that white kids aren't prosecuted when they do dumb stuff... It reaffirms the same story that their parents and grandparents have have told them about how unjust American is...

Does this make the schoolyard fight right???

Well, no...

But let's keep this in some perspective here...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 04:45 PM

Well said, Mick. I think that is the point... things we all need to do in our daily lives to address this problem. The lady I mentioned, the one who was in the Little Rock 10, was very articulate. She went back to the school on the 50th anniversary and was asked how she saw the whole issue of integration, looking back. She said "I'm shocked and surprised. We thought a new day was dawning back then. We thought that schools would be filled with eager, happy children, anxious to learn, black and white together."
We should know by now that dreams can come true. But it takes a hell of a lot of work.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Peace
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 04:23 PM

Thank you, Mick.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 02:58 PM

Yes, Bruce, it is mine. And you may use it any way that you deem fit.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 02:57 PM

Ernie, my comments go to a much earlier moment in all this. Had this been handled as it should have been, by the school, and the community, we wouldn't be having this whole debate. The second those nooses appeared, it should have been a red flag for people that truly care about the young folks of both sides of the racial divide. There is no excuse for the handling of this. While I completely understand the District Attorney's position, his is locked into the moment of the beating as it must be. But in the larger analysis, the most important analysis, the analysis of what happened and how and where do we go from here, this is a monumental failure on the part of the folks that are charged with teaching so much more than just reading, writing and arithmetic. It is a monumental failure by the parents of all concerned. It was an exquisite opportunity to make this town, and these young people, better citizens and human beings.

The real lesson of Jena is that we are not where we need to be in the struggle to respect and understand one another. Those that act like racism, whether benign or overt, is a thing of the past are in a state of denial. The hanging of those nooses should have raised a flag in the minds of decent white folks and parents that said, "We must deal with this". Those that thought it just a harmless prank are reprehensible and lie at the root of the problem.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Peace
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 02:44 PM

"If someone deserves to go to jail, it is those who failed in a sacred obligation to use life's rough spots to teach the next generation to be better than the last."

If that's yours, Mick, may I quote you?

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 02:43 PM

For the most part, I agree with you Mick. But read the "Justice in Jena" link provided by Q several posts up. The Prosecutor sounds like a guy who is painfully persevering in trying to do his job. I don't think his house deserves a pox.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Big Mick
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 02:38 PM

What a wasted opportunity this whole fiasco is. There was an opportunity to take an incident of incredible stupidity, and a moment when the racial incidence was at the friction stage, and turn it into a teaching moment. You might have caused an epiphany. I remember watching, earlier in the year, an episode of Oprah where this organization held an assembly at a school, and through the use of "crossing the line if....." they taught the young folks how badly they were making each other feel. Bullying, whether racially based, or on the basis of body image, or religion, was exposed for what it was. There were epiphanies in the lives of virtually every kid that attended that session. In Jena, they had such an opportunity, but no one chose to take it. The friction escalated to smoking embers, smoldered, and erupted. Now we are faced with a bunch of self righteous poms on both sides of the argument more interested in defending their positions, and using the incident to gain self serving publicity, than getting to the bottom of a sad situation. A fucking pox on all your houses for the wasting of a magnificent chance to effect change in the hearts and minds of these young folks. I am disgusted by all of this, and by the attempts to justify the actions of the kids that did the beating, and the kids that fostered the racial hatred that led to the beating. There is no excuse for the beating. And there is no excuse for allowing and justifying the racially charged hanging of the nooses. The fact that months went by isn't justification for condemning the black kids. Rather it serves up proof that the racial tensions were allowed to fester and erupted in this act.

As I said...... a pox on all your houses. The young folks are being poorly served by those charged with teaching them values. If someone deserves to go to jail, it is those who failed in a sacred obligation to use life's rough spots to teach the next generation to be better than the last.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 02:29 PM

Thanks to Q for the comments of Reed Walters. He sounds like a man motivated by duty and a sense of what is right, and he sounds like he won't be cowed by the pressure put on him. If the facts are as he states, more power to him. I challenge Peace, Bobert, the 2 Gregs, Janie, and whoever else argues for the overarching nature of prejudice as justification for Bell's actions to read it and comment.

Subject: RE: BS: The Jena 6 Controversy
From: Peace
Date: 26 Sep 07 - 02:13 PM

The principal and the vice principal may have been the only people to have acted correctly in this fiasco. The principal's decision to toss the kids OUT of school for putting nooses in the tree was over-ridden by both the superintendent and the school board, so instaed they got a tap on the wrist and that most stupid of all punishments--a three day in-school suspension.