Danny Boy banned in pub....

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: DannyC
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 06:26 PM

Sean: Thanks for having the laff with me.   I was hoping for Pulitzer consideration by virtue of the Harry Chapin quip.

Tattie: That Rory Dall must have been some fierce man. Here's a bit more about him from Capt. O'Neill (my edits):

    RORY DALL O'CAHAN

It is doubtful if any harper of any age was so renowned as Rory
Dall... The O'Cahan's were a powerful clan in the portions of
Antrim and Derry called the O'Cahan country... born in 1646, was
nicknamed Dall after losing his eyesight... he early devoted himself
to the harp... travelled into Scotland attended by the retinue of a
gentleman of large property... he seemed to have traveled in the
company of noble persons...

Proud and spirited, he resented anything in the nature of trespass
on his dignity... Lady Eglinton commanded him to play a tune.
Taking offense... O'Cahan refused and left the castle... her
ladyship sought a speedy reconciliation. This incident furnished a
theme for one of the harper's best compositions, "Tabair Dam Do
Lamh", or "Give Me Your Hand".

... the fame of the composition induced (King James) to send for
the composer. O'Cahan accordingly attended the Scottish Court, and
created a sensation. His performance so delighted the royal circle
that King James familiarly laid his hand on the harper's shoulder.
When asked by one of the courtiers if he realized the honor thus
conferred on him, to their consternation Rory replied: "A greater
than King James has laid his hand on my shoulder." "Who was that
man?" cried the King: "O'Neill, Sire!" proudly answered Rory
standing up.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 06:12 PM

Would yer man in the new York pub ban this version? (probably older than Danny Boy), same tune, also a wee bit sentimental, but IMHO, a preferable set of words. (Is this the one you meant, Skarpi?)The tune itself may be up to 4 centuries old: Sibelius attribute it to Rory Dall O'Cahan (1560-1660)

LONDONDERRY AIR (IN DERRY VALE)
W.G.Rothery

In Derry Vale, beside the singing river,
So oft I strayed, ah, many years ago,
And culled at morn the golden daffodillies
That came with Spring to set the world aglow.

Oh, Derry Vale, my thoughts are ever turning
To your broad stream and fairy-circled lea,
For your green isles my exiled heart is turning,
So far awa-a-ay acro-oss the-e sea.

In Derry Vale, amid the Foyle's dark waters,
The salmon leap above the surging weir,
The seabirds call – I still can hear them calling
In night's long dreams of tho-o-ose so dear.

Oh, tarrying years, fly faster, ever faster,
I long to see the vale belov'd so well,
I long to know that I am not forgotten,
And there at ho-o-ome in pe-eace to-o dwell.



And Giok is right about the "Wild Rover" and the Middle Bar at Sidmouth; £5 fine for singing it. Last time I remember someone getting caught it was a somewhat nervous Antipodean singer, who was cajoled into singing, and said he would do the only song he could remember. Another singer got away unfined after singing the chorus in German.(Nein, nicht, nieber)
I'm tempted to try out the trad version of Wild Rover (minor key and none of that no, nay, never, no, nay, never no more nonsense)to see if they'd notice, or impose the fine.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:42 PM

"we knew where to draw the line....."

on the pavement(sidewalk to our North American friends)when you wanted to play hop-scotch.....

Charlotte (still plays when she thinks no one's looking)

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Stringsinger
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 02:36 PM

Often known as the London Derriere. (Derry aire)

A maudlin song if there ever was one though the tune is pretty. Frederic Edward Weatherly (1848-1929) penned it. Edwardian, Victorian and Georgian poet.

"And I will hear though I am sleeping".......I don't think so, it's a bit much.

This theme does crop up in Irish popular music though. Sentimentality reminiscent of
"Mother Machree" and "My Yiddische Mama". (Don't cry in the Green Beer).


Frank

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 01:46 PM

He closed the first half playing the accordion and kneeling down as in prayer and yodelling Abide With Me. he was received with wild applause.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 01:44 PM

I once did a support gig at Oswestry Conservative Club with a guy who played Danny Boy on the accordion whilst yodelling the melody.

His Dad was roadying for him, and he told me: he's very talented our lad - he makes colour televisions as well.......

Very strange how sometimes you think you must have dreamt it, but you didn't....!

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Peace
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 01:05 PM

Sentimental pap?

Maybe. But I can never listen to "Amazing Grace" by the Royal Scots Dragoon Guards without getting tears in my eyes. It fosters thoughts of Thermopylae, Dieppe, Ia Drang Valley, Juno Beach, Anzio, Ypres, Dien Bien Phu: places where people have given all they have to give for others simply because their leaders--their countries--asked them.

I despise war; I venerate courage. When I listen, I sometimes wonder if I would have what it took for them to do what they did on behalf of their friends and comrades. And I pray to my God that I will never have to find out.

Youtube.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Beer
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 01:01 PM

Yes I dop remember it very well Jim. Mum use to sing it along with Danny Boy as Dad played the piano.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 12:55 PM

Errr, if you can't hit the note, why not just change the key? (or is that just a naive statement from someone who has practically zilch music theory?).

That Wetherley stuff was interesting, took me off on all sorts of tangents...... hence, does anyone have a link to an mp3/listenable file of Stonecracker John, whose lyrics were written by him? (tune by Eric Coates). It appears to be on some EC albums, but not to listen to.

Sue

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 12:42 PM

It appears it was only banned for the month of March, something to do with that other sentimental waffle, St Patricks Day

Charlotte (does not drink green beer)

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Ernest
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 12:30 PM

Actually Danny Boy is banned already.

But since the usual places (Australia, Tasmania) already had been fully occupied (by Mrs. Mathilda Waltzing) the only place left have been the Oirish Pubs of the U.S. of A.

;0)
Ernest

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's unplugged Apprentice
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 11:59 AM

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Rockin' Reeler
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 03:36 AM

Danny Boy should be banned everywhere. Sentimental waffle."

The pro-censorship crowd must absolutely adore you

Charlotte (the Saturday view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Jim Lad
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 11:43 AM

Beer probably remembers that!

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Jim Lad
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 11:42 AM

Before Danny Boy became popular, "The Rose of Tralee" was the song that had to be sung.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Big Mick
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 11:30 AM

That Amstel commericial linked to in JTT's post is absolutely brilliant!!

Mick

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Brakn
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 10:51 AM

Wetherley's father was born in Ealing and his mother in Bristol.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Seán Báite
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 07:18 AM

DannyC - hilarious anecdote, very well recounted too :->
Didn't that McGuigan bout you mention take place at the Loftus Rd football ground in London ? I've never understood how a song mentioning an 'Ave' came to be seen as a source of reconciliation between the Orange and the Green - maybe that it was the 'Londonderry Air' to begin with ??
I agree with most around here that it tends to be overdone but as to banning it, a bit much... especially when we can get versions of this sort of authenticity, artistry and indomitable Irishry :
Danny Boy - The Leprachaun Brothers

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 05:28 AM

The Derriere was once a lovely song, poignant and moving. But it's become a whinge.

It always reminds me of the tour of Ireland book written by an English clergyman during the Famine. (Can't remember the name of the book, but it's quoted in one of Cathal Póirtéar's books of contemporary writing brought out for the anniversary of the Great Hunger.)

The man at first found the whole business rather amusing, and giggled to himself in print in a London newspaper about two grey-bearded brothers he saw embracing each other over and over and crying inconsolably as they waited by the dock where one was taking ship.

But by the end of his tour of Ireland he was incandescent with rage, and writing from a very different point of view.

Incidentally, I don't know anything about Weatherly, but with many people identified as English, there's an Irish mother or grandmother/s lurking in the background.

As for the unicorn
...

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 03:49 AM

Perhaps all those in favour of a ban would like to give us a list of the things we mustn't do, say, or sing, to avoid offending their sensibilities.

It's a tad arrogant wouldn't you say, to insist that anything should be banned, simply because YOU don't like it?

Personally, I can take it, or leave it, but that doesn't give me the right to impose my views on anyone else, and my respect for the audiences who listen to me because they enjoy what I do, causes me to think very carefully about where the next gig comes from, when considering ignoring a request.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Folk Form # 1
Date: 08 Mar 08 - 03:36 AM

Danny Boy should be banned everywhere. Sentimental waffle.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 11:03 PM

'Rather than try to hit the note and botching it, I skip it.'

How do you mean, exactly? Do you substitute another note? You can't just leave a moment of silence, can you?

Of course, it may depend on how many beers the patrons have had...

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Beer
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:51 PM

I'm curious.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Beer
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:50 PM

Jim Lad,
I curious. Why would you want to ban John McDermott? He's a good Scotsman and I've seen him sing Danny Boy and I'll be damn if I would say he doesn't have the voice for it. So what gives. Is it because he reminds you of a Glen Campbell in his sparkle suit? Or maybe just the media blitz that he has received. Surely it can't be his voice.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Bert
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 10:15 PM

Amazing Grace is another one Beer. So many great songs. Let's all be small minded and ban the lot of them.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Beer
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 08:49 PM

I agree Bert. Like it or not it is one of those songs that will live forever. Amazing Grace is probably number One but I think Danny Boy is a close second.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Bert
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 08:33 PM

Oho!!! Great one.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Peace
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 08:24 PM

Reminds me of the old saw about the student who said he didn't think "Hamlet" was a very good play because it was full of quotes and Shakespeare could have at least tried to be a bit more original.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Bert
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 08:19 PM

Why the F**k do they think clichés exist. Same as Danny Boy. It is popular because it is a great song and will still be being sung long after that particular bar owner is dead and forgotten.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Bert
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 08:16 PM

Ban something because it is popular!!! The logic escapes me. Perhaps the bar owner knows something that I don't.

Kinda like the time I went to a songwriters workshop and they said "Don't use clichés".

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 08:11 PM

I know Danny Boy - he is a disreputable character.

If I had a pub, I would ban him as well. there is too much laxity in modern life - parents spare the belt and the cigarette end and see what happens.....

I remember a time when you could leave your doors unlocked, you could shit on the carpet (cos we liked a laugh) - but we always went to Sunday school and we knew where to draw the line.....

It all went wrong in the 1960's when folks started taking drugs and stopped listening to decent music. Under the Bridges of Paris,,, that was my sort of music.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 08:02 PM

It's just a pop song that's easily over done. I prefer my songs rare.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Connacht Rambler
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 06:08 PM

It's the singer(s), not the song.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:55 PM

"FREE BIRD"
"FREE BIRD"
"FREE BIRD"

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Peace
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:49 PM

"another lovely song I've played on occasion and will probably play again regardless of what others think"

Fuckin' right. So you should! Casablanca. Play it again,.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Maryrrf
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:33 PM

Rather than try to hit the note and botching it, I skip it. I only sing Danny Boy when it is requested but I feel as Jim Lad does, if I'm being paid a fee to entertain then within reason I will do what the audience wants to hear.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: The Mole Catcher's Apprentice (inactive)
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:32 PM

"Canada had Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne". Great song--killed by its own popularity. "

another lovely song I've played on occasion and will probably play again regardless of what others think.

Charlotte (the view from Ma and Pa's piano stool)

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:22 PM

'I'm recording Danny Boy in "C". Nice and easy.'

Do you have a range of an octave plus a fifth? Because that's what it takes.

I've never liked the song, even before I knew the words. I've pecked it out on the keyboard, and the first phrase moves up to the sixth of the key. (In D, the high note on 'THE pipes are calling...' is a B.)

I have never liked the sixth. I'm beginning to suspect that on keyboards, the sixth is out of tune (even temperament and all that.)

Try minimizing that note, singing it very softly, almost skipping it. How important is 'the' anyway?

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Peace
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 02:06 PM

Canada had Leonard Cohen's "Suzanne". Great song--killed by its own popularity.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: PoppaGator
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 02:00 PM

Would I be correct in concluding that "Danny Boy" is done-to-death in the US, but less so in Ireland and Britain, while "Fields of Athenry" is overdone much more thoroughly in the old world than in the new?

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: GUEST,Val
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 12:53 PM

Guest leeneia wrote:
(I believe the words were written by an Englishman during the era known as the Celtic Revival.)

It's probably been noted in another thread at some point, but here is a site with a fair amount of research on the history of Danny Boy

I keep meaning to learn the tune Bunting transcribed for Aisling An Oig-Fhir, but haven't quite gotten that proverbial round tuit.

I do occasionally mess about with playing the Derry Aire as a bouncy march, similar to "76 Trombones" by Meredith Wilson (from "The Music Man"). Adding the Danny Boy lyrics to such an arrangement would be downright sarcastic, but the melody is very pretty and can be fun to play with.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Mar 08 - 03:08 AM

Wonder if they will ban 'I'll take you home again Kathleen', 'Forty shades of green' and 'Dirty old town' by the same token. I can't see anyone taking them off the money spinning 'Celtic Collections' CDs though.

D.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 10:48 PM

Chords?
What chords?
... oh bugger!

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Bert
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 10:17 PM

Hah! It was Down in "Noo Joisey", Annamill had arranged a session in her local boozer and all of us Mudcatters got a turn to sing.

When my turn came around some guy at the back of the bar kept calling for Danny Boy. Well there was only one way to shut him up and that was to sing it. 'Corse, I didn't know the chords. So I asked him why was he asking an Englishman to sing Danny Boy; Put my guitar down on the floor and got on with it and sang it.

So, the appropriate time to sing it is when somebody asks for it.

It may have been overdone in places, but it is a great song and I enjoy singing it. One day I will learn the chords.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 08:28 PM

LOL Jim Lad,
PM me for my address. I will buy it.
Mary

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Jim Lad
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 08:25 PM

That's it!
Tonight, I' recording Danny Boy in "C". Nice and easy. No bum notes and positively no falsetto!
Then I'm going door to door 'til I've tracked every one of yous down.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 07:43 PM

Guest Acorn4 said above 'don't you just DREAD that top note in situations like this?'

I dread it all the time.

The melody for this song was around long before the words 'Danny boy' were penned. I doubt if the melody was intended for voice at all. It was probably written for an instrument such as harp or violin.

(I believe the words were written by an Englishman during the era known as the Celtic Revival.)

Either that, or this possibility. There used to be a tradition where a man sang one part of a song in his normal voice and then leapt to falsetto-countertenor [whatever you want to call it] for the next. That may have been what the composer had in mind for this song. But in that case, why are there no original words?

============
I have a suggestion for those singing the song. Our church choir had a visit from an expert, who pointed out that it is perfectly possible to come to a high note and sing it SOFTLY. I had never thought of that before. However, I've practiced it, and is possible to sing a high note and sort of 'aim it at the floor,' minimizing the effort and the impact. I believe this would work for Danny Boy.

How important is the word 'here' anyway?

Fortunately, my crowd doesn't do music like Danny Boy. We are not into Victorian.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 06:59 PM

I've heard some surprisingly good renditions of "Danny Boy" over the years, most recently from Tommy Sands. One of my favorites was the one Joan Baez recorded many years ago.

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 06:46 PM

Jeez, and here I always thought it was about a plumber -- "the pipes, the pipes, are calling".

There've been requests for it in our circle, but very seldom done. Back in the old days when former Portsmouth mayor (and husband of another Portsmouth mayor) John Foley was alive, he'd get up during the band's break St. Patrick's night at The Press Room and sing "Danny Boy" in at least 4 or 5 different keys (all at the same time). The only person who had the nerve (and skill) to try to accompany him was Bob Frost -- on banjo, yet.

We're also very fortunate that "Fields of Athenry" has not only not been overdone at our sessions, but I don't think it's actually EVER been sung in 25 years. (I may possibly be wrong; I've missed a couple sessions over the past 25 years, but not many.) The parody HAS been sung -- when Micca's been in town.

Linn

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 05:22 PM

....... promised a free Guinness to patrons who sing any other traditional Irish song at the pub's pre-St. Patrick's Day karaoke party ...

A karaoke party says it all. That would certainly not be the place to be singing Danny Boy.

Songs like Danny Boy, Carrickfergus, She Moved Through the Fair, are all at their best when played or sung by someone who can bring out the magic in them. My husband has played Danny Boy for years on chromatic harmonica and still gets requests for it at all the bookings he does - you could hear a pin drop when he plays it. There is a beautiful version, on the Eva Cassidy CD "Imagine".

Subject: RE: Danny Boy banned in pub....
From: Rapparee
Date: 06 Mar 08 - 04:53 PM

I agree with Mick. In the right setting, at the right time, DB is a lovely piece of music. Same thing with "I'll Take You Home Again, Kathleen." Or "Spancil Hill."

They get tiresome after twenty or thirty times in the same night, however, and so does a bunch of bleary-eyed drunks trying to roar out "A Nation Once Again."

I think that I'll just hole up and sip my Bushmill's 16 on the 17th. Or I could go up to Butte. More Irish-Americans up there per capita than anywhere else in the US.