BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way

Subject: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:13 PM

Has anyone noticed the revolutionary method the Republican party has devised to deal with those pesky subpoenas? They simply refuse to accept them.
The latest in a long series of these, starting with the White House's many refusals, is Gov. Palin's orders to her staff to do the same when confrnted with subpoenas from a "partisan" investigatory committee (composed of three Republicans and two Democrats).

I wonder if I could get away with that if the occasion arose.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:17 PM

MR GREENHAUS YOU ARE HEREBY ORDERED TO APPEAR BEFORE YOUR CONSCIENCE.

It is mandatory you adhere to this court order unless you are Republican.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Amos
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:35 PM

Well, it works like this--even those who are above the law have to give some kind of lip service. But the ground truth is that some animals are more equal than others and we need to respect that.

(Pardon me for being a bit sarcastic.)



A

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 01:50 PM

I do not excuse my satire.


ground truth
the buzz in the board rooms
in reality
those in the know
the bottom line



beware of anything following those phrases when uttered by men in $1,000 suits.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:14 PM

It was a unanimous vote of 14-0 to investigate in the first place and completely bi-partisan. This has Chaney and Rove's hands all over it.

An excerpt from THIS at the NYT:

Among the five lawmakers who filed the suit was Representative Wes Keller, an elder in Ms. Palin's church whom she appointed to his seat.

The reaction among their Republican colleagues was mixed. The House Speaker, John Harris, asked the Legislative Council to convene a meeting within the week to discuss the status of the investigation. "What started as a bipartisan and impartial effort is becoming overshadowed by public comments from individuals at both ends of the political spectrum," Mr. Harris said in a letter to Mr. Elton.

State Senate President Lyda Green, a Republican who has frequently clashed with Ms. Palin over policy, said the lawmakers who filed it were all "step-by-step followers" of Ms. Palin.

"The McCain campaign is the one that has made this partisan," Ms. Green said. "This was 100 percent bipartisan effort on the part of the Legislature to ask questions that deserve to be answered."

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:16 PM

First page of THIS from Newsweek:

A former top Justice Department prosecutor now working for John McCain's presidential campaign has been helping to direct an aggressive legal strategy aimed at shutting down a pre-election ethics investigation into Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

The growing role of Edward O'Callaghan, who until six weeks ago served as co-chief of the terrorism and national security unit of the U.S. attorney's office in New York, illustrates just how seriously the McCain campaign is taking the so-called "troopergate" inquiry into Palin's firing last summer of Walt Monegan, Alaska's Public Safety Commissioner.

O'Callaghan emerged publicly for the first time this week when he told reporters at a McCain campaign press conference, in Anchorage, that Palin is "unlikely to cooperate" with an Alaskan legislative inquiry into Monegan's firing because it had been "tainted" by politics. That new stand appeared to directly contradict a previous vow, expressed by her official gubernatorial spokesman on July 28, that Palin "will fully cooperate" with an investigation into the matter.

But O'Callaghan (who resigned from the U.S. attorney's office at the end of July to join the McCain campaign) is doing more than just public relations when it comes to "troopergate." He told NEWSWEEK that he and another McCain campaign lawyer (whom he declined to identify) are serving as legal "consultants" to Thomas Van Flein, the Anchorage lawyer who at state expense is representing Palin and her office in the inquiry. "We are advising Thomas Van Flein on this matter to the extent that it impacts on the national campaign," he said. "I'm helping out on legal strategy." A McCain spokesman said Wednesday that, while Van Flein was originally hired last month by the Alaska Department of Law to represent Palin and her office, that arrangement has been changed over the past week and he is now being paid only by Palin and her husband — not state funds. He has not billed the state for his work, the spokesman said.

The investigation revolves around allegations that Palin fired Monegan, the state's top cop, because he rebuffed intense pressure from the governor and her aides to dismiss Mike Wooten, a state trooper involved in a messy custody battle with Palin's sister. Critics, including Monegan himself, have accused Palin of being obsessed over the Wooten matter—sending him repeated e-mails about it—in an attempt to use her public office to settle a private score.

But Palin, while acknowledging her chagrin that Wooten was still on the state police force (she told ABC's Charlie Gibson last week that the trooper was engaged in "dangerous and illegal activities" and had "threatened to kill my dad") has said she never directly told Monegan to fire the trooper. Palin and her lawyers have also said that she had other reasons for firing Monegan, including a dispute over the state public-safety budget and actions her lawyers have depicted as "insubordination." (Wooten has denied Palin's charges that he threatened her family and contended he has already been appropriately disciplined for his wrongdoings—including Tasering his 10-year old stepson—as a state trooper.)

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: emjay
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 02:27 PM

And now the Palinistas are attempting to smear Monegan. Front page of the Anchorage Daily News yesterday, (Sept. 16) "'Rogue' Monegan accused of insubordination. The article mentions an "escalating pattern of insubordination." Go to adn.com to read more.
She seems to be doing just what she did as mayor of Wasilla, going after those who don't do what she wants when she wants. A well-qualified executive works with those who don't always agree with the executive and learns from them. And perhaps makes supporters of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Amos
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 04:04 PM

Well, it's hard to drain the swamp when you are surrounded by all these haters, you know. Goodness, she's just trying to steal win the election for her team. It's not like truth matters very much in the long run, after all!! Let's be mature--what matters is who ends up in control of the power, not the turh about how they got there!! Whassa madda you, people?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:04 PM

How dou you spell accountability?

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Rapparee
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:25 PM

Or "P-E-R-S-O-N-A-L R-E-S-P-O-N-S-I-B-I-L-I-T-Y".

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: curmudgeon
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 05:59 PM

"It is self-evident to us all, I hope, that we cannot overlook, dismiss or diminish the obstruction of justice by the very person we charge with taking care that the laws are faithfully executed. It is self-evident to me.."    - part of John McCain's excuse for voting for impeachment.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Donuel
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 06:13 PM

Rachel Maddow did a great piece on this Palin investigation and the people they sent up there last July to deal with it.

The guy McCain got to spear head the cover up was a heavyweight in the anti terrorism Homeland Security Office. (which means little when you think of atta boy Brownie) but he is a lawyer.

This is what they have done:

They filed a motion that the State Legislature can not oversee this investigation and that it should go to the State Disciplinary Board in which Gov Palin is the Chairperson.

Then (THIS IS RICH) they filed a motion with the disciplinary board to investigate... (GET THIS) and then waited a couple weeks and filed a second motion for the Disciplinary Board to not review the Palin case and dismiss the whole thing.

POOF the snake swallowed its tail

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: GUEST,Don Firth (computer still in the shop)
Date: 17 Sep 08 - 07:15 PM

Jeez! Palin can tap dance better than Ginger Rogers!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 04:54 AM

""unlikely to cooperate" with an Alaskan legislative inquiry into Monegan's firing because it had been "tainted" by politics."

Hey that Guy who was the President of Iraq tried that line too 'the USA invaded my country and appointed you as a puppet Govt, so I refuse to recognise the authority of this court'.

They hung - right after the 'fair trial'...

Oh then there was that other guy in Europe...

This is, of course, ABOVE POLITICS, as all criminals think that way too...

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 06:52 PM

On the news just now they said that Palin's husband was going to ignore a subpoena issued to him in one of these investigations.

And did you notice, McCain is now claiming that were he president now he would fire the head of the Security and Exchange Commission. Like he can scape goat this guy for the cascade of banks and other financial institutions that began in the Reagan administration (remember the Savings and Loan crisis?) and that Bush finished (everything else). All of this money didn't go away--it vanished into the pockets and off-shore accounts of everyone from the mortgage brokers (got one in the family--business down the toilet) and compilers of mortgages into securities to sell, and to those who bought those lighter-than-air (no substance) securities, etc. A lot of folks got rich, and now the taxpayer is asked to replace the cash, not the folks who are responsible for skimming it off in the first place.

I now thoroughly understand why the old Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times" is a curse. And a really nasty one, at that.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:11 PM

Ya' know it wouldn't be as bad if these folks just didn't want to testify but what really makes this a very sticky situation for historians is that these folks want all their correspondances also kept secret... What this does, in essence, is create an 8 year void in the history... Yeah we know about the decisions but unlike former administartions we don't know anything, or very little, into just who was doing waht in making these decsions...

This is a very dangerous precedence...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: olddude
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:51 PM

If he tasered his 10 year old, then do you really want that creep on the payroll as a state law enforcement officer ... Good Gosh I am no fan of Palin but this guy is a creep people. Who does that to any kid especially your own ... Good Grief ... dislike her or anyone else you wish but he is dirt and deserved a whole lot more than being fired. Heck if I were the governor his job would have been his least concern.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: EBarnacle
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:53 PM

Donuel, re post #2, this thread, One of the rules is that if you wish to air for high office as a Republican, you leave your conscience at the door to the campaign/party offices.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 07:53 PM

I still think that IF any subpoena is 'ignored', whoever does the ignoring should face the consequences. ANYBODY. Show up and plead the 5th, whatever...but ignore at your Peril.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Alice
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:31 PM

I saw trooper Wooten interviewed on tv about the charges. He explained the taser incident, stupid, but not a full on tasering.. the family was hanging around in the living room after Wooten got back from training in tasering and his son wanted to know what it felt like. He did not use a charged taser, but put some pillows around and then let the boy have a little shock from it, like touching a low voltage electric fence, he said, and the family all laughed and goofed around about it. So, when I first heard "tasered his son" I thought of something more extreme than what he described. YES it was STUPID, but the Palins have certainly milked it. And Wooten was disciplined for all he did wrong and the case was investigated and closed after the discipline.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 08:39 PM

Oldude-
Irrelevant. He may be a total shit, but ends don't really justify means. Abuse of power is abuse of power. And refusing legally authorized subpoenas is hardly the proper way to act (present administration apparently excepted).

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: olddude
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:11 PM

dick your point is well taken

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Neighmond
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:17 PM

When dodging subpoenas, take care
And in matters of ethics, beware
No sleazing and crooking
While the whole world's looking
It's better to just play it fair.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 09:24 PM

Can I just say 'Village Idiots' here?

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Rapparee
Date: 18 Sep 08 - 10:46 PM

1. Hold off until January 2.
2. Testify like hell before Congress.
3. On January 19th, the President pardons you for all your misdeeds.

What's the problem here?

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 12:11 AM

How high up in the Republican party do you have to be before you can ignore subpoenas without getting arrested? Mr. Palin isn't even a candidate.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: kendall
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 05:01 PM

Why are the media not all over this?

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Alice
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 06:38 PM

Because the economy is in a big crisis... ignoring the subpoena news, yet there is some news today about how Mr. Palin, called "First Dude" by Sarah, is called the "Shadow Governor" by others in Alaska, and participates in state government meetings, gets cc'd on her government emails, etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 19 Sep 08 - 11:44 PM

I don't see how anyone can be expected to respect a government that fails to obey its own rules. Some folks, though, seem to manage.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 12:52 AM

Ya know, yesterday, Rachel Maddow on MSNBC, said this investigation had been buried by the Republicans. Tonight, she retracted that statement, quoting an official in Alaska who said it WILL continue and there will be a report by Oct. 10th. She also pointed out that the special investigator already has access to a bunch of statements by the people who are now refusing to testify. Apparently, the Attorney General's office did its own investigation and has deposed a bunch of them. Those depositions are available to the special investigator, so he may not need any of them (the Subpoena-Refusers) in order to file his report.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 11:25 AM

It would be nice if Troopergate were resolved. But the question of ignoring subpoenas without adverse consequences is still a serious matter, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: Dealing with Subpoenas--the Repub Way
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Sep 08 - 03:00 PM

habeas corpus...gone.

"Activist judges"......gone.

Privacy on the phone:.....gone

Right to demonstrate peaceably.....gone

Right to any opinion officially other than what the Adminstration endorses....gone

Subpoenas? What's that?