BS: Update on Somali Pirates

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Gulliver
Date: 07 Oct 08 - 09:14 PM

"Ain't never saw a pirate
Drive a family from their home"

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Oct 08 - 10:23 AM

The news media is oddly silent about the current situation but then everyone is probably awaiting the arrival of the Russian Navy; they are probably sending the Potemkin.

Charley Noble, on his way back North from Getaway

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 May 09 - 07:21 PM

Here's the latest update on how the Somali pirates are organized: Click here for article!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 May 09 - 03:43 PM

Another interesting article indicating that pirate captures are still on the rise despite more successful enforcement by the international naval force: Click here for article!

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 May 09 - 08:28 AM

Well, it was bound to happen. Columbia Pictures has just announced it will be producing a major film of the capture and rescue of Capt. Philips from the Somali pirates: Click here for article!

Any suggestions as to what actors should portray the major characters? And what will be the love story triangle? And who will play the intrepid reporter who spends the entire film at the China Bar in Addis Ababa, having wisely decided not to parachute into Puntland or onto the captured tanker in the India Ocean?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 May 09 - 08:37 AM

In the meantime, the "good times" for Somali pirates may be drawing to a close, according to this recent interview with Mohamed Said one of the more successful pirates: click here for article!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: gnu
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 01:44 PM

Oopsie-dasiy... my bad.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 02:58 PM

My broker does not recommend investment in Somali pirate enterprises.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 03:24 PM

Gnu-

Nice update to this continuing saga.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Gulliver
Date: 07 Oct 09 - 09:04 PM

Leave the pirates alone! They've got wives and families to provide for, same as everyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 10:29 AM


For instance, Sawzaw, the American revolutionaries in 1775 were terrorists of their time in a legal sense, because within the British Empire they were committing treasonous acts causing property damage and death, and the British considered them as terrorists and traitors and would definitely hang them if they caught them.

Wrong. You're fuzzing up the meaning of the word "terrorist", and not adding any light to the discussion.

Terrorism is a line of action which is basically political psychological warfare (advertising, if you will) with little or no attempt at actual military or geographic gain from the act performed. To set off a bomb in a public market, for instance, is intended to terrorize the populace . The Ku Klux Klan's lynch actions in the American South were terrorism. John Brown's raid on Harper's Ferry, on the other hand, was a military action, intended to seize weaponry and to mobilize what Brown thought would be thousands of slaves revolting and joining a revolutionary army.

The American revolutionaries of 1775 were treasonous, all right, from the King and Parliament's point of view, but not terrorism. The one exception might be the Boston Tea Party, which was not really directed toward military advantage but was political propaganda.

But rebellion and treason and revolutionary warfare are not the same as terrorism, and to call them that damages the utility of the term "terrorism".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: meself
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 11:09 AM

Similarly, it would be a stretch to say the Boston Tea Party was meant to "terrorize" anybody. Although in the post-9/11 use of the term "terrorism", any act of political dissent seems to fit the bill ....

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 12:14 PM

Nor should the Somali pirates be characterized as "terrorists." "Terrorists" generally have a political agenda. The Somali pirates so far have only demonstrated an economic interest in securing ransom for their prizes, and unlike some traditional pirates do not seem to indulge in gratuitous violence. They generally take reasonable care of their hostages (if they don't resist or try to escape) and return them unharmed when ransomed.

They are, however, "pirates."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 01:01 PM

Although in the post-9/11 use of the term "terrorism", any act of political dissent seems to fit the bill ....

As an observation of how people tend to speak today, that's correct. But that's exactly the kind of loose use of language I was complaining of.

However, I admit that an argument could be made that the Twin-Tower and Pentagon attacks had both terroristic and operational/strategic objectives. It seems to me, though, that the terroristic or propagandistic aspect was more central to the motivation. It seems clear to me that, in the event, the end effect on the United States of those attacks was much greater on the terroristic front than the operational/strategic.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: meself
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 01:24 PM

We're in agreement. The term "terrorism" should only be applied to violent acts that have the express purpose of spreading terror for political and/or military ends.

It is ironic that while the 9/11 attacks gave a clear illustration of the meaning of the term "terrorism", the reaction of Bush & co. had the effect of blurring and weakening the meaning of the term, as it came to be applied in a hyperbolic way to any action a user of the term didn't like. (Mis)Users of the term usually being power-holders, or their supporters.

Clearly these pirates aren't terrorists (did someone suggest they were?) - they are not even particularly violent, from what I can see.

As for the American Revolutionaries - someone who knows their history better may correct me on this, but it is my impression that there were both Loyalist and Revolutionary guerilla bands operating off the beaten track who engaged in what we would today call, legitimately, terrorism.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 08 Oct 09 - 04:41 PM

Meself-

I think it would be a correct statement that Loyalist and Rebels both indulged in terrorist acts during the American Revolutionary War, and so did the British soldiers as well.

As for the Somali pirates, I think most people who contributed to this thread now understand that they are primarily economically motivated, rather than politically. No doubt being captured by a group of Somali pirates is no picnic, and may even inspire terror among the captives. I say, "Steer clear of the Red Sea!", unless you are in a well-armed or well-guarded ship.

Charley Noble, safe at home in his armchair

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 11:22 AM

Chalk up another major capture for the Somali pirates: click here for story

This time they've captured a huge Chinese bulkcarrier:

"The De Xin Hai was carrying about 76,000 tonnes of coal from South Africa to India when it was seized by gunmen yesterday about 700 nautical miles east of the Horn of Africa."

The Chinese are threatening to mount a rescue operation. The pirates are threatening to kill all the crew.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 03:28 PM

The papers this morning also reported that piracy is on the upswing in spite of increased defense.
Be interesting to see what the Chinese do.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Royston
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 06:22 PM

If they've any sense they will take the French approach: Special forces assassinate as many pirates and as few hostages in a overwhelming use of deadly force to recover the ship. If a few hostages get caught in the crossfire then so be it.

The French have done this. French ships get left alone. Ruthless but effective.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Peace
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 07:08 PM

Ditto, Royston.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Oct 09 - 10:31 PM

Well, that may work. But the owners might not be too happy if their ship is also blown up by the pirates. The pirates do hold a strong hand.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 08:31 AM

Meanwhile the pirates have snagged another ship:

"Pirates have struck again in the waters off Somalia, hijacking a Panamanian registered cargo ship.

NATO's anti-piracy mission, which has warships patrolling the seas off Somalia, has confirmed that a Panamanian flagged cargo ship has been seized by pirates.

The ship's 26 crew members have been taken hostage.

Most of the crew are believed to be Indian.

An Italian bulk carrier also came under attack from pirates in the waters north of the Seychelles, but it managed to avoid capture.

The Somali pirates are holding six commercial carriers.

Earlier this week a Chinese cargo ship with 25 crew members was hijacked and the pirates threatened to execute their hostages if China attempted a rescue operation."

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: M.Ted
Date: 22 Oct 09 - 06:37 PM

It will be interesting to see how China responds, particularly because there are many who feel that Chinese authorities and even the Chinese Navy have been complicit in piracy in the South China Sea.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 09:28 AM

This morning a third bulk carrier, the MV Al Khaliq for those keeping score, has been successfully seized by Somali pirates: Click here for report!

Clearly "Pirate Futures" are on the rise in the lowlands sea!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: M.Ted
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 12:47 PM

Sooner or later, they're going to run out of room.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Peace
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 03:20 PM

IMO, the only other alternative is to completely ignore the pirates and their demands. "Sorry, nobody home."

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 03:38 PM

Peace, that leaves the pirates with three solutions; kill a hostage or hostages, scuttle the ship or withdraw. The pirates will try the first two methods before giving up. Professionals have moved into the business; that makes piracy even more difficult to combat.

Since there is no universal convention on response, each ship owner must decide the best way to answer the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: meself
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 03:50 PM

Maybe an international bureaucracy should be set up to deal with the ransom demands as they are submitted - that should at least slow them down. Considerably. Imagine the forms that would have to be filled out, the reports, the assessments, the panels, the consultations, all the standing-in-line, the judgements, the appeals, the reviews, the investigations, the hours on hold being subjected to muzak and feel-good messages ....

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:01 PM

meself-

I like the way you think!

I was thinking along similar lines but having some Hollywood producer approach them for the exclusive rights to a major motion picture featuring "Real Somali Pirates." Of course that could result in one group of pirates eliminating their competition, in a battle for the survival of the fittest.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: meself
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:26 PM

Hey, that would be a good idea for a reality TV show. Of course, we'd have to arrange for a few blonde-haired, blue-eyed, large-breasted, piratessess. "Pirate Survival: the First Episode".

Meanwhile: "If you have captured a tanker and taken hostages, press 1. If you have captured a tanker but taken no hostages, press 2. If you have captured a smaller vessel and taken hostages, press 3. If you have captured a smaller vessel and taken no hostages, press 4. If you have captured the wrong vessel, and now want to know what to do with it, press 5. If you are a hostage seeking information on how to escape, please stay on the line and a representative will be with you shortly."

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Oct 09 - 04:54 PM

And if you blundered and tried to capture a naval vessel, press "Too Bad!"

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 01:58 PM

You guys years too late for that reality show idea to be a wicked satirical comment on contemporary media. The fact is that every news event, no matter how terrible, is simply fodder for the entertainment industry, and they are more than willing to create the news when they need to-it isn't even old news::Crime Show Host Arranged Murders

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Riginslinger
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 08:40 PM

Didn't they mistakenly challange a French warship last week, or has that topic already been covered?

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Peace
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 08:59 PM

You're right, Q. I was being somewhat facetious.
Actually, I think the answer is fairly simple. Lots of ex spec ops people are looking for work. Trained personel backed up with the weapons necessary to give an attacker a very bad day.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: M.Ted
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 09:09 PM

The closest I've come to dealing with pirates is when the City of Philadelphia impounded my car because I'd left it parked under a tree in front of my apartment building for longer than two weeks(I was away for a month). The fees for towing and storage were more than the car was worth, so I let them keep it. They didn't have any hostages though.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 09:48 PM

Away, hey! Haul 'em away!
The parking lot pirates are we!
From the Hill to the Ferry,
There's none that's so hairy
And we always collect our fee!
To me way, hey! Haul 'em away!
We plunder the streets of your town,
Be it Edsel or Chevy,
There's no car too heavy,
And no one can make us shut down!

After Steve Goodman

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Charley Noble
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 10:14 AM

Soon on view at a theatre near you: click here for story

PIRATES OF THE INDIAN OCEAN

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 01:39 PM

I understand the even if one of our Royal Navy ships catch a pirate boat going about their unlawful activity, the captain must first get permission from the Admiralty in London before any decisive action can be taken. Naturally the Admiralty sits on its` hands, procrastinates,(human rights, political correctness and all the rest of it) and the moment is lost. Vive la Belle France et la Russie!!

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 03:42 PM

The pirates aboard the Chinese bulk carrier De Zin Hai have threatened to kill the 26 crew members if a rescue is attempted.
Chinese foreign minister spokesman has said his government had "actively started rescue operations" but gave no details.
Observers said they expected a 'diplomatic resolution'.

Although a considerable value rests on the coal and ship, I would like to see what reaction a torpedo would bring.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 04:25 PM

There's another side to all this.

Today's BBC news had an item about how local Kenyan fishermen are benefitting because the activities of the Somali pirates have led to a departure from Kenyan waters of another variety of pirate - the illegal foreign fishing boats which had moved in to the area in recent years, as reported in this story last year - Pirate fishing boats target Africa:

According to today's story things have got a lot better since then, and the Somali pirates are in high regard among Kenyan fishermen, and no doubt by Somali fishemen as well. In fact it appears that many of these pirates used to be fishermen, who turned to piracy when the foreign "pirate fishing boats" wrecked their livelihood.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: gnu
Date: 25 Oct 09 - 07:28 PM

Youse just gotta 'ope the b'yes ou' a Tickle 'arbour don't get a mind ta go after da Nort' Atlantic shippin traffic er dem Parchageese fishin ships what's fuckin wit' da cod off'na shore eh buddy?

Dem lads can knock a seal bobbin in a tirty sea wit a tree ot tree wit yer iron sights from a dory aff salted. Yer 'igh tech snipers wit dem fancy roifles wouldn't even phase n fellas.

Ever ere a any pirates messin wit nare a dory? Not fookin likely. I say, send the Newfs in and let the dories loose on the bastards.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Peace
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 02:55 PM

Jaysus, Gnu, after reading Q's post and before reading yours, I was about to say, "There will be shit flying when the Newfies hears of this, me son."

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: gnu
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 06:09 PM

Well, me zon, me zon.... ain't no torpedoes required nor advised if ya sends in da lads see? Fact is, two Newfs in a dory could innocently row up alongside and surround the buggers. Screwed as a June bug at dawn on a lone spruce in a bog them buggers.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Peace
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 06:10 PM

I shall quote you on the "Common Language" thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: gnu
Date: 26 Oct 09 - 06:20 PM

Don't forget to mention the ravens.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: folk1e
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 02:51 PM

BBC news has it that a British couple are the latest victims of the pirates.
Their yacht has been found following a distress call and a spokesman for the pirates has admitted they are holding 2 Brits ...... demands for a ransom are to follow!

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: folk1e
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 12:45 PM

The pirates are demanding £4.3 Million!
Something about this one just doesn't seem right to me.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: gnu
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 01:32 PM

Nuke em.

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 03:29 PM

Rachel Chandler worked with people I know. She and her husband put all their money into the boat.   Fingers crossed for a safe return.....

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: Update on Somali Pirates
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 01 Nov 09 - 03:59 PM

Chandlers' kidnap and ransom demand story here

Kitty