BS: Europe Bans Seal Products

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: gnu
Date: 02 Dec 09 - 04:58 PM

Bull balls better?

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: gnu
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 02:08 PM

Can we get back to clubbin da fookin seals stead a da Haligonians? Though, mind sure as seal shit is slick, some a dem mainlanders whats gone savage on da sealers oughta spend a wee toime inna outport what's got fookall else ta provide cept what ye can scratch an claw from da rock and da wa'er and da hoice.

Until dem bloods a bitches as stood long side wee pups in da cold salt wa'er ta da waist shovellin caplin on ta da shore wit a hold snowshoe, fook em!

D'ya suppose Sir and er ever ate a raw caplin what was droied on a tar paper shack inna summer sun wit a tousand floies on em? Nare fookin loikely.

Makes me blood bile some awful. Ooooo me nerves

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: meself
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 11:54 AM

And my last comment was addressed to maple leaf boy - I understood the thrust of your remark.

As for Halifax, it is a city of, what? around 300,000 people - how many people took part in the anti-sealing protest - 500 at most? 200? 75? I suppose the rest were too busy whining and not looking for work.

Note as well that Halifax has, at my last count (awhile ago), eleven institutions of post-secondary learning. As a consequence, the city has at any given time a large number of "temporary" residents who as such cannot be said to have had their characters greatly influenced by whatever it is in the water there that turns people into shiftless whiners. I don't suppose any of these short-term residents would have been participating in the protest ...

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Rapparee
Date: 31 Jul 09 - 08:40 AM

Having been to Halifax I can say that I found the people there to be just like people 'most everywhere: hard-working, decent sorts with families and who want to get ahead a bit.

That's not to say that the others don't exist, but I strongly doubt that they are in the majority or even a significant minority. My comments were not addressed to the vast majority of Halifaxes.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: meself
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 11:32 PM

Most people I know in Halifax have jobs, and do no more whining than people anywhere else.

Do you have opinions about other populations of people based on where they happen to live? I'd be curious to hear a few.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Rapparee
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 09:21 PM

Put them to work next winter in Nunuvat -- if a job can be found.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 08:13 PM

I meant twits.
And, I renounced any good feelings I've had towards the city of Halifax.
Those protesters caused a man to kill himself if you've followed this
seal hunt story meself.
A bus driver got out of the bus and clubbed a fake seal. Those anti-
seal hunt crybabies freaked out over it, even though the guy apologized
and said it was a joke and he ended up killing himself over the flack
that he got out of it. The Metro Transit was only supposed to suspend
him, but changed they're minds and fired him at the end of his suspension.
There is always a protest going on in that city. They make a lot of
noise and they clog up the streets. That is why I no longer like it
in Halifax. It's the protest capital of Canada. They should quit
whining and get jobs.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Paul Burke
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 05:07 PM

Sorry, can't type. David Cameron, leader of British opposition, got bad word confused with inoffensive word "twit" on the radio.

I'm prejudiced against seals anyway. When I was little, at Catholic primary school, they made us sing a hymn asking Jesus to "set Thou a seal upon my lips...". I was terrified that if I said a bad word, like 'Cameron', some circus animal would come and bite me on the mouth.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: meself
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 04:44 PM

"Canerons"? Dare I ask ... ?

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: CarolC
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 04:42 PM

I find myself wondering why people consider it the ultimate insult to be called a name that refers to women's private parts. Do people who use the word "twat" as their ultimate insult actually not know that in doing so they are insulting their mothers, sisters, and daughters? Or do they just not care?

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Paul Burke
Date: 30 Jul 09 - 04:32 PM

stupid twats in Halifax

Glad you didn't call them Canerons.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: meself
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:52 PM

maple leaf boy - did you have a bad experience in Halifax or something? Having lived there for a number of years in my younger days, and having family there, I find your characterisation of its citizenry bizarre and offensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 07:30 PM

Europeans took away the life systems of the Arctic Peoples. Pretty much destroyed their culture.

Now they will take away one of the few remaining ways they have to make money.

Either invest in the Arctic Peoples and help them preserve their culture or shut up. You can't have it both ways, not without being an imperialist.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 06:39 PM

Something that doesn't make sense is that those stupid twats in Halifax
are protesting against the seal hunt when they aren't protesting the
hunting of animals in Nova Scotia.
I bet that most people who want to ban the seal hunt besides vegetarians
just want a reason to protest. That's how it is in Halifax. They're
just idiots who aren't happy unless they create a disturbance.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:33 PM

Bit of a thread drift here. But while there (in my opinion - as an openly hypocritical on/off meat eater) may not be any truly 'humane' way to rear and slaughter meat, there is still a *scale* of humanitarian issues around animal welfare in the meat industry, that far more (in fact ALL) meat eaters need to take an interest in, and personal responsibility for.

"Enlightened" meat eating, is often not acknowledged by serious vegetarians/vegans, because ANY meat eating, simply doesn't accord with their personal ethics. Yet, it's average meat eaters attitudes and buying habits which must be addressed if any serious progress in animal welfare is to be made: average meat eaters who will never become vegetarian, but who may be gently nagged into simply making a better informed and more 'humanitarian' choice when surfing the supermarket.

Like Peace, I swap most of my meat consumption for vegetarian and vegan alternatives (can't EVER give up cheese though folks!). I've also been vegetarian for some years in past. I'm on a vegetarian diet at present. Yet my own meat consumption over the years, has been what I consider to be 'enlightened', in other words I make an intentionally informed choice & take full personal responsibility for my choices. Thus, when I purchase meat, I choose game or free-range meat.

I also believe game and free-range meat industries are the only choice any fully informed meat-eating individual, can ethically take. I'd also happily fish or hunt with birds, dogs & guns (though trapping is beyond the pale for me). And in that respect, I fully support Rapaire, as I think it's the most personally responsible choice any meat eater can take.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 03:09 PM

Will this ban pertain to O-rings, gasket materials, etc?

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:46 PM

Ahhh... don't get me wrong. I am the only guy I know that constantly complains to the big supermarkets that their lobster tanks are inhumane and truly sickening. I have asked them to at least move them into "the back", so that the drooling hoards that walk by the tank every minutre don't put more stress on the lobsters.

Of course, they say, "I will bring that up for consideration." or whatever, all the time eyeing me as if I was a tad off my nut.

But, the seal ban is plain and simple crap.

Tell every farmer in the world you will stop buying animal "products"? Maybe I am missin sommat...

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:31 PM

TSO: I quit hunting and trapping years and years ago. Not that I never would again. Even ate horse meat as a kid--it was cheaper than hamburger. BUT, having met some horses and got to know them a bit, I could no more eat one now than I could eat human remains. Raising one's consciousness is a long process. I don't doubt you are more advanced than I am. My meat consumption today is about maybe a pound a month. As I find foods to replace the meat protein (I was a vegan for two years way back), I eat less and less meat. Perhaps soon I will be able to stop.

Keep well. FWIW, meself is one really neat guy.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:31 PM

Peace - I've not been *in* an abatoire, but I have watched quite a few films of animals being processed and slaughtered in them. I must say, it doesn't tend to disturb me that badly. I do accept it as part and parcel of the industry. Though the mass production element, can generate greater disregard for welfare.

A friend of mine used to rear goats and regularly had them slaughtered at a small family run business. I think that the meat industry at all ends of the process, is best in the hands of small businesses of similar kind. Yes, no doubt the animal will get stressed, but at least with a small firm with a local reputation to uphold, the likelihood of abuses, will (IMO) be greatly diminished.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:25 PM

PS That wasn't directed at you, CS.

As another btw, meself has been in places where Indians (North American variety) live and hunt. I think he might agree that by and large they are no more respectful of the environment than most other folks. However, we all like to give it lip service.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:22 PM

Folks who feel so smug about meat-eating should see a present-day slaughter floor. When it comes time for the killing, it's never pretty. It's never nice. And it's never humane.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: TheSilentOne
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:20 PM

Gnu, there have actually been continuing campaigns against the treatment of veal calves for many years in Europe, most particularly by UK-based animal welfare organisations. Various "improvements" have been made but it remains a pretty vile industry. Many people seem to find it very easy to remain oblivious to the provenance of the food they enjoy.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:18 PM

And for the record, I agree, there are FAR worse industries which are far less humanitarian than seal clubbing. Pig farming is one of the worst offenders IMO. Just fucking horrible. I make my fella only buy British pork, which at least has some relatively decent standards.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:14 PM

I don't believe that 'consistency' is something to be expected or demanded, in all humanitarian issues. That would be an impossible standard and impractical to set. It *is* something however, to be striven for and worked at, but not expected, as it's currently impossible.

What we can hope to achieve is gradual improvements in some industries. Yes, some industries will 'appeal' more strongly to the masses and are thus likely to garner greater support (not brilliant, but true). But ideally when certain *precedents are set* in some industries of greater interest to the public, then the momentum gained by increased general awareness of such issues, will eventually have a constructive influence on societal awareness of and attitudes towards *other* possibly inhumane industries.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 02:05 PM

So... when can we expect the ban on the inhumane treatment of bovine calves raised in penstocks for veal?

Clubbing seals PROPERLY is far more humane than the treatment of veal calves. But, seal doesn't get served in fancy European restaurants.

Peace makes the point... it is truly two-faced bullshit. And, a lot of HUMAN children won't have any of that veal or new shoes this fall.

Pauly and the Greenies can yap all they want about the seal hunt being replaced by other revenue generating avenues... but I don't see any of those bloods-a-bitches coming up with any of the coin they are raking in to shod wee Garge in Freeze-Me-Arse-Off Cove. If there REALLY is any coin to be made, why are THEY not kicking seed money for these great wealth generating ventures? THAT is TRULY putting bullshit before logic. That is BEYOND two-faced.

Instead of Sir Stunned and the missus crawlin up to a seal pup and scaring the crap out of it (illegal, and rather inhumane, BTW) and it's mother for a fookin photo op, they shoulda visted the HUMAN families that depend on the seal hunt for FOOD, CLOTHING and SHELTER.

But... that's the two faced part personified... they don't give a shit about the humans or the seals and neither do the Green Mega-beggars. They just care about making more money. If they did care at all, they would put their money where their mouths are. Pauly alone could do it... if it could be done.. but he is not doing it... he can't even read a fookin map!

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:59 PM

No country is.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: TheSilentOne
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:58 PM

You're right, there's no direct relation there, I was just trying to give some indication of where I'm coming from, i.e. animal welfare, and also show that I don't think the UK is blameless in matters of animal welfare.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:53 PM

I'm having difficulty with the concept of "humane slaughter". FWIW.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: meself
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:50 PM

By the same logic - yes. However, I was simply following the logic of the previous poster. If you don't like that conclusion, then find some way to frame the argument that doesn't involve "freedom of choice" (as you have done).

I don't see the relation between this issue and "inhumane live animal exports". If you were campaigning against any kind of animal product being exported from the UK, then your position would be consistent. Your vegetarianism, on the other hand, seems consistent with your postition, assuming that it reflects a disapproval of the killing of animals for human use.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:45 PM

I certainly see your point of view, Chris.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: TheSilentOne
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:40 PM

meself said:
"Yes - but you wouldn't need a ban if you didn't want to take that choice away from your fellow-citizens who might not make it the same way as you would".
But that's how democratic decision-making works, you know? When the majority considers something sufficiently abhorrent, it gets banned.

Do you, by the same logic, think we shouldn't have banned ivory imports?

(Speaking personally as a long-time vegetarian and sometime campaigner against inhumane live animal exports *from* the UK, I am very pleased to see the decision made with regard to seal products.)

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: gnu
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 01:34 PM

RATS!

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 12:48 PM

It was a good PR move on the part of the seals to have such big eyes wasn't it?
I mean if it was rats they were killing, who'd complain?

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:24 AM

Horses are intelligent creatures. They are slaughtered too. In Europe. I am sick of this two-faced bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: meself
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:14 AM

We are all aware, are we - that the hunting of baby seals was ended many years ago? No? Oh ...

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 11:03 AM

I won't get into the "don't eat meat" controversy as that is a matter of choice. I have said elsewhere that my ideal in that regard is that you would only eat what you grow or hunt yourself.

However, the clubbing of the baby harp seals (in the movie) was disproved years back by the Dutch government investigation into the matter. FAR more efficient to shoot them at a distance, and the kill is as quick and humane as possible. The Inuit and the Yupik adopted firearms for hunting everything as quickly as they could, simply because of the efficiency.

Some years ago the Norwegian Tourist Minister suggested (as I remember) a "seal hunt" where tourists could brain seals with pickhammers. I don't believe the idea went anywhere, but the Minister did.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: meself
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 10:48 AM

"we are entitled to exercise our choice not to associate ourselves with the products ensuing from them."

Yes - but you wouldn't need a ban if you didn't want to take that choice away from your fellow-citizens who might not make it the same way as you would.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 10:35 AM

That is the sort of labelling we could do without. I do not eat animals and would quite happily obstruct a fox hunt. I also believe that there are plenty of Canadians - if not actually a majority - who would not dream of bashing a seal pup's brains out with a club. The issue is not whether we have the right to interfere with practices in someone else's land. We do not. However, we are entitled to exercise our choice not to associate ourselves with the products ensuing from them.
I also detest the continued slaughter of humans in Afgahnistan and Iraq. However, I do not believe that even my strongest opponents have any intention of involving themselves with any of the direct products of that bloodshed.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 10:14 AM

No fear of a shortage of self-righteousness anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 29 Jul 09 - 09:56 AM

That's rich.. from a part of the world that hun't foxes, force feeds geese and has fished the oceans to death..hypocrisy in spades..yes ?

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Peace
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 11:25 PM

So, Europe will ban products 'from inhumane slaughter'. Does this mean all European countries will no longer be bringing their war-dead home?

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 08:34 PM

Seal, caribou, and other furs were and are used by traditional Arctic peoples because of the properties of the furs. Were I able to afford such a parka (and they go on over your head, they do not button up front) I would want it with the furs used as they are traditionally: wolf (I'll take coyote though) for the ruff, wolverine for the lining of the hood, seal for its water repellency, caribou for the windstopping qualities, etc. I would of course want pants, mittens, and boots to match.

It gets COLD here (below zero F.) and sometimes windy as well. But I have no place to use such an outfit and therefore would not own one even if I could afford it.

So I'll make do as I have been, with wool and fibers both natural and unnatural.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 08:17 PM

Nice post, Gnu. I wouldn't be surprised if mccartney didn't know where
Newfoundland is. He isn't that bright.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 01:25 PM

I believe this post from another thread may be applicable here, as well....

Iss da fookin seals eh wha?

All da seal huggin yuppies what gets da ban on da seal hunt is causin a spoike in da seal population. More seals eatin cod an salmon an shellfish ana loike an fartin, what den causes da roise in yer temperature a yer bay, see? Not ta mention yer green gas what fooks wit yer ozone. Now, dem cod and yer loike is after livin in cold water fer a long many years and dey don't spawn so good when da bay is warm. Less fer yer whole food chain ta eat, what stunts yer growth of yer under da water plant type life and den iss loike a dog chasin ees tail I tell ya.

True sure! Iss da fookin seals, buddy.

Well, iss da yuppies what gets sucked in ta donatin coin by yer global Mega-Beggers loike yer Green Pieces who use yer stunned as me arse neo-ecological old hippies loike yer McCartneys fer frontmen. Imagine da loikes a dat pair globe trottin in jets and cruise punts and couldn't even find Newfoundland on a fookin map!! Jaysus! Wonner Danny b'y didn't go out fer a wee chat wit his nibs in person and give n a smack.

At least get a fookin GPS so's ya knows where yer to eh, Pauly. I mean, it's nare loike ya can't afford one... and maybe a yuppie to read it for ya. Good ting dey weren't walkin, eh? Prob'ly woulda got lost sure... had ta club a baby seal fer sustinence eh wha? Nothin out on ta ice fer ta make a club with though. Wonder what dey coulda used?

Some folks is stunner n fookin seals. I mean, ya don't even have no never mind the roise in da level a da bay from yer global swarming… put a seal in yer washtub an see if yer floor gets wet.

Iss da fookin seals!

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 12:29 PM

Seals, no. Veal, yes. Unreal deal.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Emma B
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 12:10 PM

Legislation was introduced in Scotland a couple of years ago to protect endangered species like otters, whose fur used to be favoured by sporran makers.

The law already applied to other vulnerable animals
BBC News

Although white sealskin from pups was once used for sporrans it was banned to protect young seals, Duncan Chisholm, chairman of the Kilt Makers Association of Scotland was reported as saying

"I could agree with the ban on using baby seals because of the way they were killed.
I felt that was something that in the interest of animal welfare was a good idea
However, with the grey seal there is a cull of them from time to time and these skins are fairly plentiful"

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 11:48 AM

It also includes pills that contain seal oil, and sporrans are also
made from seals.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Emma B
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 11:27 AM

As I understand it the EU ban on seal products will exempt those derived from traditional hunts conducted by Inuit in the Canadian Arctic, along with those of native people from Greenland, Alaska and Russia; in such communities there is probably as much reverence for animals in the average hunter as there is in any animal rights activist.

The wording of the European legislation specifically bans products from inhumane slaughter.

You will have to cross the border for your parka Rapaire, the US banned the trade in seal products in 1972.
In recent years, 11 other countries have banned their trade in seal products or announced their intentions to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Rapparee
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 09:54 AM

I'd buy a sealskin parka -- assuming that it was from a spotted (ringed) or harbor seal, of which there are plenty.

Subject: RE: BS: Europe Bans Seal Products
From: Stu
Date: 28 Jul 09 - 06:46 AM

What seal products are being imported here?