BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize

Subject: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 06:50 AM

Quite startling, given the length of time he has been in office and the fact that the nomination deadline was just days after he took office.

President Obama Awarded 2009 Nobel Prize for Peace

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: gnu
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 07:31 AM

Gosh!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Stu
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 07:45 AM

Bloody ridiculous.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 08:29 AM

Huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: catspaw49
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 08:29 AM

Let the trash talk begin.....as I see it has.......but for the changes he has brought about in the attitudes of others toward this country after 8 years of xenophobic histrionics, he well deserves it.

While I wish he were stronger on health care and and other things where I was hoping for more change than we're seeing, in this area he is a winner. Perhaps this will help to strengthen his commitment to the real changes we hoped would happen.

Congratulations Mister President........and remember, you couldn't have done it were it not for Dubya!


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 08:39 AM

I don't get it!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,Janie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 08:49 AM

Well said, Spaw. I was completely surprised. When I listened to the clip from the Nobel Committee this morning it makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 08:51 AM

Obama deserves the Nobel Peace Prize "for the changes he has brought about in the attitudes of others toward [the US]"?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:01 AM

I love it if only because it will send HannityLimbaughBeckCoulterMalkinOReilly off the deep end (along with some of our locals I believe). Let the outcry and indignation begin!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Amos
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:04 AM

Wow!! What a pleasant surprise!! And its nice to have what he's changed so far noticed.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:05 AM

Considering the attitude that the Daily Mail - that much admired and frequently quoted source of some posters here -takes to the award, I should wholehearted endorse it but can't help recalling .......

When Henry Kissinger won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1973, the musical satirist Tom Lehrer decided that he could no longer perform.
"It was at that moment that satire died," he said, "There was nothing more to say after that."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:05 AM

Gotta say, I think this is basically something of a strategic PR campaign stylee award. Even so, I hope it works for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Charley Noble
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:21 AM

I'm also surprised, since there was no suggestion of such an award in the media.

In some minds it may make up for the International Olympics Committee's decision to resist his efforts to lobby them to hold the 2012 games in Chicago.

Obama still has a lot of potential for achieving improved international relationships, and the Nobel Peace Prize Committee recognizes that potential.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: bobad
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:21 AM

"he Nobel committee recognized Obama's efforts to solve complex global problems including working toward a world free of nuclear weapons.

"Only very rarely has a person to the same extent as Obama captured the world's attention and given its people hope for a better future," the committee said.

Jagland said the decision was "unanimous" and came with ease.

He rejected the notion that Obama had been recognized prematurely for his efforts and said the committee wanted to promote the president just it had Mikhail Gorbachev in 1990 in his efforts to open up the Soviet Union.

"His diplomacy is founded in the concept that those who are to lead the world must do so on the basis of values and attitudes that are shared by the majority of the world's population," it said.

Bravo Mr. President!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:27 AM

Yeah, great. Now he's up there with Henry Kissinger.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Stu
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:31 AM

"Let the trash talk begin.....as I see it has......"

I suppose that's a reference to me? It's 'trash talk' because I don't agree? Bollocks.

I'm not trashing Obama or anyone except the board who awarded this prize to him. The idea that Obama has suddenly become a panacea for all the world's ills is a delusion the US can't afford to labour under.

This is a feeble PR stunt. Give the prize to the many Chinese dissidents struggling against brutal oppression, the people trying to make the peace process work across communities in the North of Ireland, the lone voices trying to bring people together in Palestine and Israel. Gandhi never received the Nobel Peace Prize but war criminal Kissinger did.

This is political grandstanding pure and simple. Obama might be wonderful (I would have voted for him), but he's in charge of the world's biggest military and a relentless and belligerent Pentagon that has yet to be tamed. He's only been in the job 11 months, we've no idea of his rhetoric will become action.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating and it isn't even out of the oven yet.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Mr Happy
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:39 AM

Shall I add to the overwhelming cynicism here, or hold fire 'til later?


................pondering, .......will he/won't he send more troops...?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:40 AM

I am stunned. I wonder who nominated him? If the reports are true neither Obama nor his staff knew about it until this morning.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: irishenglish
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:50 AM

Sugarfoot, you said "I'm not trashing Obama or anyone except the board who awarded this prize to him." A very valid point, and the committee has made some odd choices, such as Kissinger in the past. Regrettably,I think the talking heads-the Limbaugh's, the O'Reilly's, etc are not going to make the same connection, and will pin this on the man...not a bunch of Norwegians! As if to say-its his fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Mr Happy
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:55 AM

I wasn't aware Norwegians were involved?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 10:51 AM

I will hold judgement.

I am not trashing Obama, I wish him well.

However, if he pulls out of Pakistan and gets peace in the middle east and this allows us in the UK to pull our troops back from afganistan and peace is restored around the globe, I will just like the people who voted for him for The Nobel Peace Prize, kiss his arse.

As S Jack says, there are more worhy people in this world

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 11:12 AM

JaysusHFuckingKeyriced...you all don't want much, do you? The man has done more to change the attitude, no small thing after the shrub, of the world towards the United States, to hope for improved everything and is taking steps to achieve SO MUCH...there is nothing wrong with recognising those efforts NOW whilst he carries on with others to bring so much change about.

Bravo, President Obama!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 11:26 AM

Good for you, Mr. Prez. My very sincere congratulations on winning this very prestigious award.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 11:30 AM

"if he pulls out of Pakistan and gets peace in the middle east and this allows us in the UK to pull our troops back from afganistan and peace is restored around the globe,"

..then he'll be genuinely worthy of a Peace price. Looking forward to it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: pdq
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 11:37 AM

A small correction to the discussion: the Summer Olympics will be in Rio de Janeiro in 2016, not 2012 as stated above.

Good news: they have reinstated golf and rugby for those games after about 100 years without them.

Subject: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize for 2009
From: Genie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 11:47 AM

I would suggest a small but significant change to the thread title (echoing a point I heard on a talk radio show this morning).   The Nobel Peace Prize is "awarded," not "won" in the sense of people having "competed" for it.
To say he "won" it suggests that he was out there campaigning or vying for it (as he did for the US to get the Olympics).
Instead, he, like other Nobel Laureates, was awarded the Prize based on their own considerations of his goals, values, policies, and accomplishments and those of others being considered.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Amos
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 11:56 AM

WASHINGTON — President Obama was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday for his "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples," a honor that came less than nine months after he made United States history by becoming the country's first African-American president.



The award, announced in Oslo by the Nobel Committee while much of official Washington — including the president — was still asleep, cited in particular the president's efforts to rid the world of nuclear weapons.

"He has created a new international climate," the committee said.

For Mr. Obama, one of the nation's youngest presidents, the award is an extraordinary recognition that puts him in the company of world leaders such as Mikhail Gorbachev, who won for helping to bring an end to the cold war, and Nelson Mandela, who sought an end to apartheid. But it is also a potential political liability at home; already, Republicans are criticizing the president, contending he won more for his "star power" than his actual achievements.

In a late-morning appearance in the Rose Garden, Mr. Obama said that he was "surprised and humbled" by the award, and that he did not feel he deserved to be in the company of some of the "transformative" figures who had previously won it.

"Let me be clear, I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments, but rather as an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations," the president said.

The news shocked people in Oslo — where an audible gasp escaped the audience when the decision was announced — and in Washington, where top advisers to Mr. Obama said they had no idea it was coming. The president was awakened shortly before 6 a.m. by his press secretary, Robert Gibbs, who delivered the news.

"There has been no discussion, nothing at all," said Rahm Emanuel, the president's chief of staff, in a brief early morning telephone interview. (NYT)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize for 2009
From: Genie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 11:59 AM

For the record, while I don't yet have a verbatim transcript of their comments, I did hear a clip this morning from a spokesman for the committee that awards the Nobel Peace Prize. He made it pretty clear that the Nobel Peace Prize is awarded as much for someone's vision, policy direction, goals, and inspiration as for concrete accomplishments and that in awarding this honor to Barack Obama they are honoring and applauding what they see as a strong, positive change in direction of US policy re international relations and diplomacy, and nuclear non-proliferation in particular.   They emphasized Obama's work on behalf of nuclear nonproliferation.


In his acceptance speech this morning, Obama framed the Prize as representing just that.   It's not so much an honor for him or his accomplishments as an encouragement of the international diplomatic work he has been involved with along with many, many others.

The Nobel Peace Prize committee is, I think, endorsing what they see as a major shift in attitude and goals by the US that this new administration promises.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: EBarnacle
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:11 PM

What worries me is that the Committee may be rushing to judgement based on fear. I agree with President Obama's goals and methods in general and I fear for his personal future.

No president has received so many death threats as Mr. Obama. As with terrorism, only one bad guy has to get through to destroy him. In that respect, although there may be an element of prematurity here, I consider it understandable that Mr. Obama should be honored.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: goatfell
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:23 PM

I'm glad that he got it, good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:30 PM

It seems to have come as a bit of a suprise even to the American liberal news website The Huffington Post

"However, in awarding the Prize to the President, the Committee has risked undermining much of the President's momentum on a number of fronts by focusing supporters and detractors alike not on what he has done, but on what he hasn't...

While it is true that he has reached out to the Muslim world in unprecedented ways, reengaged our allies, and helped the U.S. reach a tremendous milestone in race relations, and spoken out on nuclear disarmament, he has yet had the chance to solidify gains on any major policy issue or really have the opportunity to turn his attention to issues of peace.

In fact, as Afghanistan becomes increasingly discussed in many quarters as a war of choice, Obama has had to focus his attention not on peace and diplomacy, but on calculations of war.....


... today many around the world are questioning whether Obama's accomplishments during his short time are deserving of this great honor.
And, at a time when some are feeling disappointed that Obama's promises of change are not being fulfilled fast enough, this award may not be actually be helpful to the President in the way that the Nobel Committee hopes.
Rather, it may shine a spotlight on a lack of accomplishment, even for those who support the President.

So, in addition to having to live up to the hopes that his campaign and election raised at home and around the world, President Obama will have to earn, in the minds of many, this prematurely bestowed award."

The Nobel Prize Committee May Have Done Obama More Harm Than Good

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:32 PM

My first reaction was total surprise. "Huh?" "What for?"

He's expanding the war in Afghanistan, isn't he? He has not withdrawn from Iraq. He has not closed Guantanamo.

On the other hand, I can see the committee's point about how he has shifted world attitudes toward the USA in a more positive direction. It has been a notable improvement over the Bush administration in that sense certainly. But it's a little early to be awarding Peace prizes, I think.

Perhaps the Norwegians are hoping to nudge Obama into changing his policies on the Afghan war?

Oh, well...I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:33 PM

Here's an interesting take on the reasons why President Obama may have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize:

Obama as the pathfinder for a new American leadership
Submitted October 9, 2009 - 8:36 am by Jack DuVall

"...Nobel Peace Prizes have typically been of two kinds -- to an older person, for lifelong achievement, or to a person still involved in a cause, in order to strengthen it. Obama believes he represents a new form of American leadership in the world, less belligerent and welcoming of everyone's views. This is a Nobel award that is actually quite shrewd: For some time, it will coax and remind Obama to consider whether he is living up to that standard. So he'll show us, going forward, the scope of his conscience, the degree of his ingenuity in strategies to end violent conflict and repression, and the extent of political risks he is willing to take for the sake of people's rights and opportunities. The award is an investment in a new direction for America's role in the world.

It is also a rebuke to those who are willing to discard hope at the first sign that the American president may not fulfill their every wish. Presidents don't change the world by making sudden decisions or signing laws. They change it the way it is always changed: to paraphrase Al [Giordano]*, by organizing that change. Successful organizing does not mean calling upon heaven to drop manna on us. It means getting fractious people to shut up and start contributing to the process, in order to bring to bear more than your own personal power on a problem, and it means developing a strategy to present opponents with difficult choices so they end up doing what you want.

We haven't begun to see what Obama is capable of. The Nobel prize will on his mind for quite some time. It's a good thing."

http://narcosphere.narconews.com/thefield/3519/congratulations-dude#comments

-snip-

I very much agree.

Congratulations, President Obama!

* Al Giordano is a journalist who operates the Narco News Bulletin, reporting on the War on Drugs, the political blog The Field, reporting on American politics, and the School of Authentic Journalism [This from his Wikipedia page]

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Rog Peek
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:33 PM

When I caught the news,I was pretty taken aback I have to say, while I recognise that Barack Obama has re-kindled hope for so many in the world, for me, the jury is still out. I am reminded that he is a politician, and this section of the community have not a particularly good record for being true to their word. However, I was very impressed with his acceptance speech which among other things described this award as 'a call to action', so I like so many others will continue to hope that faith in him has not been misplaced.

With regard to the motivation behind this award, I understand that the award is by way of encouraging the present trend towards friendship and diplomacy rather than mistrust and conflict. If it succeeds in this, then what I say is Bloody Hooray.

Rog

Rog

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: michaelr
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:34 PM

This is the man who was elected to end the US' Middle East wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and has failed to do so. Instead, he'll probably "surge" troop levels in the latter contry, and keep permanent military bases in the former.

This is the man who presides over the slaughter of innocent civilians, mostly women and children, through the unmitigated evil of remotely controlled drone bombers.

Peace, my ass.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:39 PM

the nomination deadline was just days after he took office

Surely the relevant date would mot have been the date he took office, butb the date he was elected. By the time Obama actually took office, the positive impact of his election on the world political scene had already been demonstrated.

Maybe the Peace Prize should have been awarded to the American electorate.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: pdq
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:40 PM

"Perhaps the Norwegians are hoping to nudge Obama into changing his policies on the Afghan war? ~ LH

Yes, that may well be the case. The Prize surely isn't for things he has done but for things the committee want him to do in the future.

The Emmys, Grammys and Toneys are also awarded for political reasons, rarely for merit.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:49 PM

Well, at least by my count, it has been awarded to politicians 19 times since 1959 (some years had multiple winners), twice to peace-makers in Northern Ireland, once to peace-makers in Israel/Palestine and once to a military force.    At least twice they apparently couldn't find anyone worth getting the award and rolled the money over.

Far be it from me to try to second-guess the Nobel Committee, but the choice of Mr. Obama is far better than some of the previous selectees, even if it is only for preliminary efforts. I do find the idea expressed above that they gave it to him because he'll be killed before he finishes what he has strarted to be rather depressing. May he carry on as he has begun.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:55 PM

Ditto Magrath.

Seeing as he was nominated a mere two weeks into his Presidency, I reckon it's actually been strategically awarded as a form of international validation, recognition, and indeed encouragement of, the *American people* for voting the guy in.

He's the symbolic figurehead of a process of delicately shifting attitudes occurring in America amongst the electorate themselves. On that basis, Obama as figurehead, is deserving of it as the public representative of the American people as a whole.

That's my theory...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 12:56 PM

Ooops "McGrath"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 01:02 PM

...an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations,

Yes, well said, Mr. President.

Genie, thanks for the info.

The press, most of it, is guilty of Perception Management, i.e. make something up, spin it as if it were true, watch the people believe and take action based upon the lie. The liberals can be as guilty, to some degree, mostly more benign imo, than the conservatives. Right now, the libs seem to keep shooting themselves and Obama in the foot...as if they are afraid electing him might not really work. Maybe they are waiting for the other shoe to fall OR maybe they don't have a creative, i.e. think outside the box and find the real stories, bone in their body and go for the one bone they can all chew on...which bone may not have one shred of Truth attached OR even exist as so much of it is speculation these days, which can create its own "truth" and become self-fulfilling.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 01:02 PM

Well one thing he has done is bring two conflicting sides to a rare accord

"Nothing has changed in the Obama administration's policies from previous U.S. governments, except statements, promises and hopes," said Fawzi Barhoum, a spokesman for Hamas, the Palestinian faction that runs the Gaza Strip.

For Efraim Inbar, a politics professor at Bar-Ilan University near Tel Aviv, the prize shows that "the Nobel judges are unable to distinguish between words and deeds.


The deadline for nominations for the prize, which includes $1.4 million in cash, was Feb. 1 - before he launched initiatives on nuclear non-proliferation and rebuilding U.S. ties to the Muslim world.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Little Hawk
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 01:02 PM

I can't help but wonder now if Chongo Chimp has a slight chance of someday winning a Nobel Peace Prize? My head tells me "Well...maybe."...but my gut tells me "Not a friggin' chance!" ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 01:28 PM

Well, we must encourage our leaders, but mu thoughts are for al the lesser known people who work day and night in dangerous situations to relieve the suffering of others, and work for peace in a largely unlauded way. 15 mins of fame for ome of these wonderful people would also serve to change attitudes.....by example.

Subject: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize for 2009
From: Genie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 02:22 PM

Azizi, that column by Jack DuVall said, better than I could, what occurred to me shortly after I posted my last post.   By awarding Obama this honor they are not so much saying that he "won" a prize based on accomplishments (during or before his Presidency) as they are, in effect, 'nudging' him in the direction he seemed, early on, to be going and reminding him not to lose that focus.

To those (including the writers of SNL) who say he has not accomplished much - e.g., the closing of GITMO or withdrawing our troops from Iraq and Afghanistan --, let's not minimize the opposition he has been facing from the military-industrial complex. (You know, the one Gen./Pres. Dwight D Eisenhower warned us to beware?)    Laws have been passed to prevent any detainees from GITMO to be transferred to prisons in all, or at least most, of the states that have maximum security prisons, and releasing detainees to other countries is highly problematic too.   Obama even has a high level General openly challenging his policies and goals for Afghanistan in the media.   And the Republicans in the Senate seem hell bent on filibustering anything the Dems try to do that isn't exactly what they would do (and even some things they might otherwise approve of -- just because they want the Obama administration to fail).

In terms of why he was nominated so early -- as were many, many others -- let's not forget that he did have a record of policy stances and votes before the 2008 election. As an Illinois state legislator and as a US Senator, and even as a community organizer, much of what Obama worked for was equal rights, cooperation among groups, and peace.   Go back and listen to Obama's keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention.   Its focus was on bridging the gap and healing the often artificial yet increasingly hostile divide between regions, factions, and parties in the US (and around the world).

When the US was attacked on 9-11-01, for a brief moment the world was with us. Remember the French newspaper headline that translated "WE ARE ALL AMERICANS?"
But the Bush/Cheney administration, instead of seizing that moment to unite people of good will around the world against fanatical terrorism, basically poured fuel on the fires of racial, ethnic, and religious intolerance and of chauvinism and US supremacism.
Those who see war as an avenue to political power and wealth stepped into the breach and set us on a dangerous and unsustainable path.   
No, Obama, hasn't "turned the ship of state around full course" yet. We have a long way to go. But at least I think he and the Democratic Congress have begun that process.   And they need to be cheered on for that and prodded to go further.
I think that may be a lot of what the Nobel Peace Prize Committee had in mind.

Subject: Barack Obama awarded 2009 Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 02:29 PM

McGrath of Harlow responded to this comment :   "the nomination deadline was just days after he took office"
by saying this:

"Surely the relevant date would mot have been the date he took office, but the date he was elected. By the time Obama actually took office, the positive impact of his election on the world political scene had already been demonstrated.

Maybe the Peace Prize should have been awarded to the American electorate."

I agree with that last statement, McGrath.

But who says the Nobel Committee considered only what Obama had done or worked for after he was elected President, or even only after he entered the race. Since when are only heads of state or major political leaders nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize?
Since when is that prize awarded only to such leaders?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: DougR
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 02:34 PM

I'm not surprised. EVERYBODY loves the messiah! He won it by championing a cause that will never be achieved: the total elimination of nuclear weapons.

DougR

Subject: Barack Obama awarded 2009 Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 02:34 PM

Emma B, "The deadline for nominations for the prize, which includes $1.4 million in cash, was Feb. 1 - before he launched initiatives on nuclear non-proliferation and rebuilding U.S. ties to the Muslim world."
That's true.
But the VOTING as to who will be awarded the Peace Prize happened very recently, after he launched those initiatives.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 02:36 PM

Odd, I have never heard anyone but right-wingers call him the Messiah. And, they do it a lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 02:38 PM

I am sure that cancellation of the Bush plans to install missile sites in Poland and the resumption of talks with Russia about decreasing the number of missiles and decreasing tensions was strong in the minds of the jury.

The war in Afghanistan is not just by the U. S. but includes NATO countries and thus has their governments' approval; a change in Western policies in the region may be slow in coming.

It my mind, diplomacy and incentives should replace armed conflict, but only a minority of Western leaders see it that way.
On home ground, Obama would have to oppose a majority of the elected Congressmen in both the House and Senate.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 02:38 PM

Why people are nominated is an interesting conundrum - for example, that well-known peacemaker Vladimir Putin was nominated in 2008 and our beloved former President George W. was nominated in 2002.   Clearly, though, an individual's accomplishments after the nomination is made are considered when the prize is awarded.

Subject: Barack Obama awarded 2009 Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 02:51 PM

Doug, if you think "everybody" loves Obama, you haven't been paying attention to the TV and radio media.   The amount and intensity of outright hatred for and vilification of this man is so out of proportion to any of his faults, failings, misdeeds, or misguided plans that it defies credulity.

There have been 400% more death threats against this President than against any other US President in US history. And a lot of this vilification began long before he took office, even before he was elected.

Obama has never presented himself as a "Messiah" type. His message is "we," not "I." And, in fact, a major reason his 'liberal' base has been so disappointed so often is that he insists on trying to "work across the aisle" and forge "bipartisan" solutions to problems (despite the apparent unwillingness of the Republican Party to work with him even on "centrist" legislation).    I actually wish he WOULD act more like a "leader" sometimes and less like a mediating "community organizer."

The "Messiah" epithet is just one of a slew of negatively-charged labels that Obama's opponents try to pin on him to gin up that hatred.
He's a "fascist" and a "communist." (Now, there's an oxymoron for ya.)
They call him a "racist" and a would-be "Messiah" and a "dictator" -- based on what?

If the world at large "loves" this US President more than they did George W Bush and Dick Cheney, maybe that's because this President doesn't think the US and its citizens and the multi-national corporations are all that matter in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Amergin
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 03:23 PM

Yeah....things have become so peaceful under Obama....we're no longer in Iraq or Afghanistan.....and no more of our men and women are being murdered for corporate greed....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: bankley
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 03:45 PM

$1.4 million is a lot of dynamite....

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 03:54 PM

What Genie said...

Fox and friends call him:

"Liberal Nazi Socialist Communist Dictator Racist Halfrican Godless Muslim Messiah"

Now are they really as stupid as all of those oxymorons suggest?

No, its just a string of epithets that they hope will stick in weak, scared, small minds.

And they do.

Subject: Barack Obama awarded 2009 Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 04:10 PM

Amergin, if the Nobel Committee used your criteria -- we have peace, no more genocide, nobody dying because of corporate greed -- nobody would ever have been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. : )

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: SINSULL
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 04:17 PM

I really have mixed feelings about this. When I first read the headlines, I thought I misunderstood and moved on to another story. When I came back to it, I shook my head and had to ask "Why?" I have read all the coverage, understand the message but honestly I don't see it. I voted for Obama, support him, will vote for him again. I am thrilled that a US President has received the honor. But...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Amergin
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 04:21 PM

No, Genie, my criteria would be for him to actually do something....like bring our troops home...and instead of spending billions on weapons, spend the money on education, and health care, and to rebuild the infrastructure of our country, Iraq, and Afghanistan...

I am still waiting for the changes he promised.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Amos
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 04:25 PM

WASHINGTON/OSLO (Reuters) - Barack Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday in a stunning decision that honored the first-year U.S. president more for promise than achievement and drew both praise and skepticism around the world.

The bestowal of one of the world's top accolades on Obama, who has yet to score a major foreign policy success after nearly nine months in office, was greeted with gasps from the audience at the announcement ceremony in Oslo.

Describing himself as surprised and deeply humbled, Obama said he would accept the award as a "call to action" to confront the global challenges of the 21st century.

"I do not view it as a recognition of my own accomplishments but rather an affirmation of American leadership on behalf of aspirations held by people in all nations," he said in the White House Rose Garden.

The Norwegian Nobel Committee praised Obama for "his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples," citing his fledgling push for nuclear disarmament and his outreach to the Muslim world.

Obama, a Democrat who took office as the first black U.S. president in January, has been widely credited with improving America's global image after the eight-year presidency of George W. Bush, who alienated both friends and foes with go-it-alone policies like the 2003 U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Crow Sister (off with the fairies)
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 04:30 PM

This thread's been interesting. Especially some of the contributions describing the amount of opposition Obama faces in furthering Peace, from within America itself.

As an 'investment in the future peace of the world', I jolly well hope this symbol of international support for his intentions (if not his actual achievements to date), supports Obama's ongoing much needed work towards initiating and consolidating, some of the peace promoting policies that he's currently got opposition to, at home...

Maybe it wasn't such a bizarre choice after all.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 05:17 PM

He could shoot the right wingers in the foot--lemme rephrase that because they usually have their feet in their mouths and shooting them in the foot would mean shooting them in the head if ya know what I mean. Anyway, at first I thought this was a joke thread. I am surprised it is fact.

Congratulations to the American people who voted for the man. And to Obama, too.

Back to the right wingers: he could shut 'em up by donating the money from the NPP by donating it to charities. Let them bitch about that!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Emma B
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 05:20 PM

The White House has already announced that the money will be donated to a charity

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 05:20 PM

Amergin, I'm still waiting for a lot of the same things. But I've seriously never seen a new President face such opposition, both in Congress and in the media -- and such resistance from the military, from the outset of his administration.   The way the Republican echo chamber treated Clinton from the outset was bad but it's far worse this time.

I don't think the President - any President - has the power to do all the things Obama said he wants to accomplish. I'm still waiting for Obama to follow through on a lot of what I believe to be his goals, but I don't think it's fair to say he's accomplished nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Donuel
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 05:22 PM

My first reaction was that he won because he was not George Bush.

Later I engoyed the way Gibbs put it. "Its actually a prize for the millions of us who have hope for a better world and have worked very hard to make it possible."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 05:23 PM

Peace, Obama has already announced that he is donating the entire $ prize to charity.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 05:28 PM

Thanks, Emma and Genie. I figured he would but hadn't heard he did.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 06:01 PM

Absolutely ridiculous. 1. Obama opposes Kyoto. 2. Obama's military buildup in Afghanistan. 3. Obama buildup in Guam. 4. Obama supports AIPAC to destroy Gaza.
5. Obama lied about getting out of Iraq.

These are not peace actions.

Who cares if Pete Seeger gets that prize? It is meaningless.

Kissinger got it. That should tell you something.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Stringsinger
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 06:13 PM

Zoya from Afghanistan should get it. Barbara Lee could have received it.

There are so many more qualified candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 06:38 PM

I believe it was very important for the world and for those of us in the USA who DO have hope, that he got it as a demonstration of good faith in his and our abilities to carry on with the plans he promised. It would be NICE if EVERYONE would, Democrats included, remember that the President cannot do anything without Congress. If you don't like the way things are going, bitch about Congress and write/call your reps and senators and tell them to WORK WITH THE MAN...the WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING and Full of Hope.

I reckon if Americans could actually get it together, we'd get back that huge amount of support from the world which was just waiting for us after 9/11 when the shrub fucked things up so badly we lost it all. wow, what must that be like. Does anyone remember...before the long eight years of...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 06:47 PM

AMEN, sistah Kat!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Peace
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 06:59 PM

Ditto that.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: DougR
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 07:06 PM

Uh, Amos: What has he changed? Note: I didn't say what has he TALKED about changing.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: DougR
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 07:10 PM

Peace: I think it is admirable of Obama to contribute his winnings to charity, so long as he doesn't give it to ACORN.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: pdq
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 07:15 PM

Perhaps he should first pay Tony Resko for the adjacent property that Obama has exclusive use of.

After all, the neighbors might talk.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 07:31 PM

Could a clone be kind enough to change the title to say Awarded instead of Wins?

Thanks,

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: artbrooks
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 08:25 PM

Genie, I'm on several military sites and blogs, and I've heard of no opposition to the President. Military retirees, of course, have the same right to express their opinions as any other citizen.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 08:40 PM

Nobel Shock shows America oblivious to its reign of terror
by Nashville fan
Fri Oct 09, 2009 at 04:34:51 PM PDT

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/9/791680/-Nobel-Shock-shows-America-oblivious-to-its-reign-of-terror


"I find it truly mind boggling how very insulated and oblivous most Americans are to the sheer hell we have put the world through over the last 8 years.

President Obama deserves the Nobel Prize for bucking the conventional wisdom in BOTH political parties and charting a course for PEACE.

- Because he ended the policy of pre-emptive war, which basically stated that the United States can do whatever the hell it wants.

- Because he ended the mindless policy of not talking to our enemies. If you won't talk to someone, how can you make peace with them?

- Because the world was weary of America's capricious selection of enemies based on our economic interests. A wink and a nod for China, our banker, and bombs for everyone else.

- Because after a war based on lies which killed THOUSANDS if not MILLIONS of Iraqis, America has been smeared by the blood of all the innocents whose only crime was to be living in the wrong oil rich country at the wrong time.

- Because he ended the policy of torture and secret prisons and lawlessness that saw agents of OUR country terrorizing people around the globe.

These changes were not small ones and not to be belittled. . . we came within 7 percentage points of World War III, with Senator McCain wanting to take Georgia into Nato and go to war with Russia AND Iran.

Those folks cheering in the streets around the world weren't cheering for the "first black President". They were cheering for an end of tyranny and oppression from the "shining beacon on the hill".

We take all these things for granted, because the bombs don't blow up here, the carnage doesn't fill the streets here, President Bush said it plainly - we fight them over THERE so we don't have to fight them here.

So we Americans are oblvious and shocked at the impact our President has had on the lives of billions of people around the world, who once again can view the stars and stripes as a sign of a friend, and not a foe.

President Obama EARNED the Nobel prize by ignoring the "conventional wisdom" that said negotiating is weak, admitting error is weak, working in alliances is weak and finally recognizing that ALL PEOPLE are precious in God's sight, not just Americans.

Well done, Mr. President. Well done."

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Alice
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:08 PM

No, they are not going to Hardin, Montana. That's an old rumor.

Alice in Montana

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: robomatic
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:13 PM

I had the radio on through the night and for some reason I awoke about 2 am Alaska time to hear the Bill Bennett program "Morning in American" talking about what Obama should do with his Nobel money. It seemed like a fantasy but it was just weird enought for validity so I turned to our local NPR station which plays, wait for it, BBC programme-ing all through the wee hours, and the Beeb confirmed. So this morning I made an effort and tuned to the start of the Rush Limbaugh program just to hear his head explode, which made less of a hollow popping sound than I expected.

A thoroughly enjoyable Fridam morning.

As to whether Obama deserves it, I can hear loud and clear what the world is saying to us...."He deserves it because he ain't 'W'!"

And even though I'm also hearing a lot of 'left' Democrats who are not totally sure of that, the world is still optimistic, so it is 'morning in America' across a lot more than our vertically aligned continent.

(still laughin' in 'laska!)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Peace
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 09:16 PM

Article about Hardin, Montana' s Two Rivers Detention Facility.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Riginslinger
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 10:25 PM

Pretty amazing, Peace. It continues to amaze me when people want to use punishment as a source of enterprize. When I lived in California they called it the California Prison Industry.

                     I did a paving job in Stockton one time, next to what they called the "California Juvenile Authority, and we saw bus loads of black children coming and going all the the time we were there. The guards stood in the isles of the buses with loaded M-16's, while the kids rode along with blank expressions on their faces chained to the backs of the seats.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Peace
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 10:28 PM

I hear you, Rig, and I trust you're doing well.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Janie
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 10:32 PM

This thread is really interesting to me, and reflects in microcosm all the different opinions and povs I have been listening to and reading in the media today.

The Nobel committee articulated very clearly their reasons for awarding the Peace Prize to President Obama. It is their perogative to award any of the Nobel prizes to whom they will.

I don't know that they have done Obama any political favor in awarding this to him. However, I think the Nobel committee has a long view, and their decision represents support and advocation of a process that holds promise for improved global negotiating and effectiveness over time. Woodrow Wilson was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for his work in conceiving and promoting the League of Nations. The US legislature voted against the League of Nations anyway. A couple of decades later, however, the United Nations did become a solid reality. While not as effective as most people would like, the United Nations represents a significant step forward.

I think it unlikely the Obama administration will accomplish many of it's ambitious and often lofty goals in the 4 or 8 years that may be allotted. However, I do think it likely this administration will nudge the country and the world along a few inches in an effective direction. The fruits of those nudges may not be harvested until long after Obama is gone.

Change on the level of society, be it national or global, is slow and is incremental. I see the Obama administration as planting seeds, some in fertile and some in infertile ground. Who knows which of those seeds will sprout now, and which of those seeds will lie, seemingly dormant, for years or decades, then germinate.

Regarding whether he correctly accepted the award or should have declined it, after reading this thread and following the news, he was clearly damned if he did, and damned if he didn't. Having no reason whatsoever to think he would be accorded this award, he also did not have much time to contemplate the appropriate action. My impression is he accepted it on behalf of a country and a world in which a number of people, whether a majority or a significant minority, see the need for a paradigm shift, even when we are not sure what the final result will be.

One last thing. All these different points of view are the reality of the human race. I try to not make judgements (and am often unsuccessful) when some one else's pov differs radically from my own. I try to keep in mind that pov is about belief, paradigm, needs, wants, and rarely about fact or actual reality. Two things that impress me about Obama is his acceptance of reality, and his ability to understand and respect the validity of differing povs.

Well, two last things. Bill Clinton was on The Daily Show last week, and made what I consider a wise observation regarding health care reform. It was something to the effect of "we need to just stumble forward."   That is what I call radical acceptance of reality.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Azizi
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 10:35 PM

Wow, that must have been painful-having faces chained to the back of seats...

**

But I know what you meant. And probably I'd put on a stoic face if I was being transported to one of those juvenile prisons.

I hope those youth-now adults are doing as well as they can.

And yes I know this is off topic but not really.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Alice
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 10:45 PM

Hardin's story is a sad one. The town is on the edge of the Crow Indian reservation. Jobs are scarce. It is near the Little Big Horn Battlefield (Custer's last stand). The people were duped into thinking the prison building would be a good idea. They were recently duped again by a con artist, a convicted felon, who claimed he would run a for-profit jail in Hardin. news from today's Billings Gazette
... but this is off the thread topic.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Wins Nobel Peace Prize
From: Naemanson
Date: 09 Oct 09 - 11:17 PM

Speaking to my fellow United Statesians only:

You may not see it but the rest of the world sees us as a bunch of self centered clowns with too much power and ego and not enough humility and team spirit. Obama may have changed that a little. I certainly hope so.

If he can do that then I say go for the gold, Barrack.

By the by, my knowledge of what the rest of the world sees in us is founded on a spread of contacts similar to those many of you Mudcatters have. The difference is that my spread of contacts is family who are not averse to sharing and showing their opinions. The countries I am speaking of are England and Japan, with a few friends from Taiwan, and the islands of the Pacific. And my daughter's friend from Ethiopia. The universal opinion of the USA is that we have more money than brains. We are like the proverbial bull in the world's china shop.

Subject: Barack Obama awarded 2009 Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:23 AM

Doug, if you are demonizing A C O R N, you've been drinking too much of the right wing Kool-Aid.   

(There's a bill in Congress now to defund and refuse to do give govt. contracts to ANY organization or business that has had any of its subsidiaries or representatives convicted of defrauding the govt. If that passes, ACORN will look almost saintly compared to, say, Blackwater, Halliburton, KBR, Pfizer, etc., etc.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:26 AM

Azizi, thanks so much for posting that! Bravo!

Subject: Barack Obama awarded 2009 Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:32 AM

Rig, you are so right. The "military-industrial complex" that Eisenhower warned about has now expanded to the military-insdustrial-prison complex -- and beyond. And it's one of the main things that is destroying our country.

Thing is, I don't hear Obama touting the idea that we need to lock more and more people up -- whether as "detainees in the war on terror" or because of street gang activity or drug offenses. I'd say it's the right wing that is pushing that agenda. And, really, the muscle behind it is the power of those who make the big bucks by locking more and more people up.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:36 AM

I skimmed this thread on my way down the the reply box. These may have been said, maybe even by the same person. Pardon me if I repeat the view:

To me, it looks like there are two main things going on here.

He received it because he ISN'T George W. Bush. This was a way the rest of the world has of saying thank you for being yourself and arriving when you did and we wish you the best after 8 hellish Bush years.

They're paying it forward, urging him to keep up the work he has started, despite all of the fiscal distractions he's trying to clean up after Bush.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:41 AM

This from the horse's mouth:

The five-member Norwegian Nobel Committee – four of whom spoke to The Associated Press, said awarding Obama the peace prize could be seen as an early vote of confidence intended to build global support for the policies of his young administration.

They lauded the change in global mood wrought by Obama's calls for peace and cooperation, and praised his pledges to reduce the world stock of nuclear arms, ease U.S. conflicts with Muslim nations and strengthen its role in combating climate change.

"Some people say – and I understand it – 'Isn't it premature? Too early?' Well, I'd say then that it could be too late to respond three years from now," Thorbjoern Jagland, chairman of the Norwegian Nobel Committee, told the AP. "It is now that we have the opportunity to respond – all of us."

Jagland said the committee whittled down a record pool of 205 nominations and had "several candidates until the last minute," but it became more obvious that "we couldn't get around these deep changes that are taking place" under Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:41 AM

You can disregard my posts about Hardin, because I was replying to a Guest's conspiracy theory messages about Hardin that have now been deleted.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:42 AM

Oh, and well said, Janie.

Subject: Barack Obama awarded 2009 Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:04 AM

Stilly, I think you're onto something.

Here's an interesting history and analysis I came across via AOL online:

-----------------

Obama's Win Fits With Nobel History

By ANDREA STONE, Senior Washington Correspondent, AOL News
10-9-09

WASHINGTON (Oct. 9) -- Mother Teresa. Nelson Mandela. Elie Wiesel. The Dalai Lama. Barack Obama.

The stunning decision to add Barack Obama to the pantheon of Nobel Peace Prize laureates is the latest head-scratcher from the Nobel committee, a secretive five-member panel appointed by Norway's Storting, or parliament. This year's committee, which leans left in a distinctly Scandinavian fashion, consisted of four women and a chairman, former Norwegian Prime Minister Thorbjorn Jagland.
"If you look at the history of the Nobel Peace Prize," Jagland said, "we have on many occasions tried to enhance what many personalities are trying to do."

Few would mistake recent Nobel winners with beauty pageant contestants aspiring to bring world peace. Yet University of Minnesota political scientist Ronald Krebs said the Nobel committee does reward good intentions by "seeking to promote peace by giving the award to those they thought were going along the right path. Barack Obama represents the extreme end of that element."
Others aren't so sure. The reaction of Lech Walesa, who won the 1983 Peace Prize for founding Poland's Solidarity union and defying the Iron Curtain, was typical: "Who? What? So fast?"

Critics called the honor an embarrassment.
"Outrageous," said Jay Sekulow of the conservative American Center for Law and Justice. "Who gives awards to a president in office for nine months?"
In Norway, the local chapter of Amnesty International said the prize shouldn't go to a sitting American president overseeing wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
But Stein Tønnesson of the International Peace Research Institute in Oslo noted, "The Nobel Peace Prize has always been politicized. It was once even given to President Teddy Roosevelt."

Roosevelt was the first of three sitting U.S. presidents to win the prize, taking the honor in 1906 for negotiating the end of the Russo-Japanese War. He is better remembered for charging up San Juan Hill during the Spanish-American War and sending the U.S. Navy around the world in a show of military might.

More than a century has passed since Alfred Nobel, the Swedish inventor of dynamite, endowed his fortune to start a prize for peace in his name. According to his will, the Peace Prize was to reward those who had "done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."

Over the years, the emphasis shifted. The first winners were often organized peace group activists. Later, politicians seeking peace were chosen. More recently, the idea of peace has been broadened to include promoting democracy and fighting climate change.

Since 1901, when the first award was given to the founder of the International Committee of the Red Cross and the head of a French peace organization, winners have ranged from the iconic -- U.S. civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. -- to the obscure -- Carl von Ossietzky, an anti-Nazi German journalist whose 1935 prize was meant as a message to Adolf Hitler.

Obama is the 21st American to win the Peace Prize and the third African-American, after United Nations official Ralph Bunche and King.
He isn't the youngest -- Northern Ireland peace activist Mairead Corrigan was 33 in 1976 when she won.
He's not even the first Chicago community activist. That honor went in 1931 to Jane Addams, who ran Hull House to help the city's poor and immigrant community.

The president's resume of accomplishments may be short, Tønnesson said, but this year's prize is meant to "encourage his further work for peace" and finish initiatives he started. Among them: a "return to respect for civic and human rights," rapprochement with the Muslim world, Iran and North Korea and withdrawing troops from Iraq. "Then a big question is if he can find a way to be peaceful also with relation to Afghanistan."

Obama was chosen over 204 other nominees, including 33 organizations, the highest number ever. He didn't help end a Cold War like Mikhail Gorbachev. He didn't topple apartheid like Nelson Mandela. Nor did he launch a "green revolution" in agriculture that saved millions from famine like American plant scientist Norman Borlaug, who died last month.

What he did bring, said J. Paul Martin, director of human rights studies at Barnard College in New York, is a change from George W. Bush and a diplomacy that often saw America go it alone on the world stage.

"It's a vote for peace and a vote of confidence," Martin said. "The view of Obama outside the United States is not appreciated inside the United States."

___

I'd say amen to that last point. Especially amid the egocentric, ethnocentric right wing extremists who dominate the Fox cable network and talk radio. They have so devalued the rest of the world that they not only discredit the opinions of those beyond our borders but seem to be oblivious to them.

When the US was passed over for the 2016 Olympics in favor of Rio De Janiero (the first S. American city ever to host an Olympics), some media on the right were quick to proclaim (all too gleefully) "WORLD REJECTS OBAMA."

I'd say this Nobel Peace Prize award reinforces this: I think not.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: LostHills
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 04:39 AM

It's a farce, and there is no way to spin it that makes it right. This man is making war against people in three different countries and is responsible for more deaths in the world than any other person. Giving a peace prize to a warmonger is disgusting, really, but they gave one to Rooseveldt and they gave one to Kissinger. Shows how much they really care about "peace," doesn't it? It just gives encouragement and legitimacy to a man who is leading our country in the wrong direction. The war should have ended in January, and that's the only way he would deserve this prize.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 09:33 AM

On the same day that President Obama met with his war council yet again to consider sending up to 40,000 more U.S. troops to Afghanistan he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize

It's difficult to know whether this confluence of events was some fluky irony or a bravado attempt by the five judges to highlight to a global as well as a domestic audience the president's decision to potentially further escalate the war in Afghanistan or not.

Maybe that eye roll speaks volumes

Emerging from the White House on Tuesday Reid put his arm around Pelosi to announce that "everyone" would support "whatever" Afghanistan policy the president produces.

Nancy Pelosi reflects the views of many anti-war voters who gave the Democrats the majority and of the progressives who elected her as speaker,

Some reports have speculated that 'if President Barack Obama decides to send more troops to Afghanistan, he risks setting off an internal party struggle on a foreign policy issue that may well define his performance as commander in chief.'

Premature?
Time will tell!

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 09:39 AM

Well, Lost Hills, the Nobel Committee obviously has their own goals, rules, and standards in awarding the Peace Prize, and they are different from what you would have were you awarding something called a "Peace Prize."

It's a bit like the never-ending quarrels over Time Magazine's "Person Of The Year" award. It is supposed to be the person most newsworthy or who generated the most news (not the most honorable or admirable person), but every year there are those who quarrel with Time Mag's choice on the grounds that the POTY isn't all that admirable.

I think the Nobel Committee made it pretty clear what message they were sending in awarding the Peace Prize to Obama (and to former recipients such as TR, Woodrow Wilson, Kissinger, Jimmy Carter, Al Gore).   And Obama accepted the award in keeping with that meaning and message. If you want to dismiss the Peace Prize as worthless, fine. But it's really not up to you or me to redefine what it is supposed to signify.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Riginslinger
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 10:45 AM

Yes, it's pretty obvious the committee has its own political agenda. Some of the awards for Literature really seem to come from Never-Never-Land.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Alice
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 11:01 AM

Front page news in Bozeman is the disappointment that Greg Mortenson did not get the prize (Three Cups of Tea, building schools for girls in remote areas of Afghanistan & Pakistan). Mortenson's home and HQ is Bozeman. Here is a quote from him regarding the award to the President.
"The Nobel Peace Prize decision was very interesting," said Mortenson, whose Bozeman-based Central Asia Institute builds schools, especially for girls, in remote areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan. "This is a mandate that puts tremendous pressure on a really young new president who has yet to commit to some resolve and action in the world.

"Obviously the prize is being given with the hope that it might give Obama leverage as he begins his peace efforts in the world," Mortenson said early Friday morning.

the rest of the article here.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 11:45 AM

I have never heard anyone but right-wingers call him the Messiah. And, they do it a lot.

About what you'd expect from assholes, no?


...donating the money from the NPP by donating it to charities. Let [the right-wingers] bitch about that!

Oh, they will, Bruce, threy will - just give 'em a chance. Gobshite Erick Erickson has already said " I did not realize that the Nobel Peace Prize had an affirmative action quota..." These assholes know no shame - and they keep sayinf that it "isn't about racism".

Yeah, right.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 11:48 AM

100

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 11:51 AM

You missed, Terry.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: bankley
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 11:58 AM

what they didn't tell the Prez was that the 'Peace' prize is Bruce Murdoch

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Stringsinger
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 12:41 PM

If the Nobel Committee is giving Obama the Prize to encourage him to make peaceful
decisions, who can argue with that? But supposing there is more buildup in Afghanistan,Pakistan and Iraq's troops are not brought home?

This might have the adverse effect of giving Obama the right to do what he wants in terms of military buildup. They might rubber-stamp his war effort.

It's a political calculation that may have positive or negative ramifications.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 01:09 PM

Glenn Greenwald, who has acted as a constitutional law and civil rights litigator in New York, criticises a top Democratic National Committee official for describing some Republicans of having "thrown in its lot with the terrorists" and putting "politics above patriotism" because -- just like the Taliban and Hamas they objected to the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to President Obama.


"That the domestic political opposition party would echo the sentiments of one of our nation's fiercest enemies is truly striking. The global community honoring the American President with one of the world's top awards should be a cause for national celebration, not cheap political games.
One could expect this reaction from our nation's enemies, but it is unseemly and downright unpatriotic coming from American political leaders."

Greenwald argues -

"What's particularly bothersome about yesterday's attacks is the premise that it's improper, unpatriotic and even Terrorist-mimicking to do anything but cheer -- have a "national celebration" -- when Obama is awarded the Nobel Prize.

Whether Obama is actually pursuing policies of peace happens to be an extremely legitimate topic of debate.

The same is true for whether he's done anything meaningful yet to merit the award.

Numerous liberals in good standing objected to Obama's award -- from Ezra Klein ("It is undeserved. It is a bit ridiculous") to The Nation's Richard Kim ("I woke up, read the New York Times website and thought I had come to the Onion instead . . . Obama doesn't deserve the prize, yet") to Naomi Klein ("disappointing, cheapening of the Nobel Prize"). While there are arguments to make in his favor -- I even made some myself yesterday in the first two paragraphs of what I wrote -- there is something unquestionably bizarre about awarding the Nobel Peace Prize to a leader who did not merely "inherit," but is advocating, actively prosecuting and escalating, a major war that is killing large numbers of civilians with no plans to stop, while at the same time building prisons to house people who will have no due process.


Unquestionably, those are and must be legitimate topics of debate."

full article

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: pdq
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 01:28 PM

repeat: "...a top Democratic National Committee official...describing some Republicans of having 'thrown in its lot with the terrorists' and putting 'politics above patriotism' because -- just like the Taliban and Hamas they objected to the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to President Obama.

That the domestic political opposition party would echo the sentiments of one of our nation's fiercest enemies is truly striking. The global community honoring the American President with one of the world's top awards should be a cause for national celebration, not cheap political games. One could expect this reaction from our nation's enemies, but it is unseemly and downright unpatriotic coming from American political leaders."


Again, this divisive crap came from a top member of the DNC and is, for practical purposes, the official position of the Democratic Party. This country is more divided now than anytime since the Civil War. That is not by accident, it is intentional.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 01:48 PM

I am an unabashed supporter of O'Bama but it is quite clear to me that he was nominated simply because the rest of the world sees some hope now that Bush is gone. He won it because he is not bush. Period.As far as acomplishments go, well,he's trying to quit smoking.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:59 PM

I hope that if President Obama has not read Greg Mortenson's "Three Cups Of Tea" and/or met with Greg, he will do that soon.   And if Mortenson has had the President's ear, either in person or by way of the book, I hope Obama will give serious thought to the approach that Mortenson describes in the book.


I'd like to think that if Mortenson had been awarded the Peace Prize the US might have taken serious notice of that and the reasons for the award. But in all probability, if anyone as relatively unknown as Mortenson had received the Nobel Peace Prize, the award would have been mentioned only in brief blurbs on page 37 of most newspapers and totally ignored by radio and TV (except perhaps for shows like The Daily Show or Rachel Maddow or Thom Hartmann).

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:59 PM

You are right, pdq, that the divided nature of America has not happened by accident, but is intentional.

The easiest way for a shadow government of huge finanical interests to disempower the general public is to set them at each other's throats through divisive partisan politics and divisive issues of all kinds. It also provides a good excuse for heightening domestic surveillance, increasing police powers, and reducing civil rights.

The shadow government I am referring to controls both the Democratic and the Republican parties (through the power of lobbying and funding), and they use those 2 parties to keep the public's attention diverted...and divided. Meanwhile, the real game goes on behind the scenes, and the real game is all about money.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 03:04 PM

Well, the UN Peacekeeping Force got it in 1988.   Of course, that was several years before the blue hats stood by silently as thousands of Muslems were murdered in Bosnia and hundreds of thousands of Tutsis were abandoned to their fates. I guess that was premature too, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 03:05 PM

Bankley: What a great idea! Bruce could be a big help to Obama. Ah, the conversations they could have!!


FROM the White House:
This morning, Michelle and I awoke to some surprising and humbling news. At 6 a.m., we received word that I'd been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009.

To be honest, I do not feel that I deserve to be in the company of so many of the transformative figures who've been honored by this prize -- men and women who've inspired me and inspired the entire world through their courageous pursuit of peace.

But I also know that throughout history the Nobel Peace Prize has not just been used to honor specific achievement; it's also been used as a means to give momentum to a set of causes.

That is why I've said that I will accept this award as a call to action, a call for all nations and all peoples to confront the common challenges of the 21st century. These challenges won't all be met during my presidency, or even my lifetime. But I know these challenges can be met so long as it's recognized that they will not be met by one person or one nation alone.

This award -- and the call to action that comes with it -- does not belong simply to me or my administration; it belongs to all people around the world who have fought for justice and for peace. And most of all, it belongs to you, the men and women of America, who have dared to hope and have worked so hard to make our world a little better.

So today we humbly recommit to the important work that we've begun together. I'm grateful that you've stood with me thus far, and I'm honored to continue our vital work in the years to come.

Thank you,

President Barack Obama

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,Astro
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 03:06 PM

Just a few corrections...the Peace prize is voted on by a Committee selected by Norwegian parliament...so there is possibly some political overtones here. Certainly, they not only had the small amount of time that Pres. Obama was in office but the long period of time between his announcement of running for office and when he was elected.

This prize was awarded out of the blue for the Pres. Instead of bashing him as often and everywhere that is possible...maybe, for the world's sake, we should say Congrats! and do well! It seems that there is sour grapes continually by those who oppose his positions and therefore lets gripe at anything.

There is difficulty in many of the things which Obama faces, such as Gitmo...It is too bad that both sides of this conflict could back down, but the last that I heard, that has not happened. It would be nice to duck our heads in the ground and believe everything will be all right, but it'll just end with our asses being blown off...!

The best we can do is to support the democratic processes in other nations and to do what Obama has done, which is to see that we are in a mult-power world and therefore international cooperation is necessary. Obama has proceeded to do that early. Much different then the conservatives did when they were in power here.

As for those who are toiling away in those forgotten places doing wonderful work. We are so thankful that you are there. This particular prize typically is given to much higher profile individuals and groups for political aims, but that does not reduce the work done by these courageous folks.

So hurray for the President and we can't wait what will happen in the future with you!

Astro taking things in stride...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 03:18 PM

Obama's own response to receiving the award is, as usual, very well-spoken.

Part of the problem is that Obama cannot do it all by himself...needless to say, I hope! He's not a dictator, he's a constitutional president. He must have the support of a majority in Congress to pass legislation. If he can't get the support of enough people in his own party to bring in a comprehensive universal healthcare plan...because those people have been bought off by the health insurance companies...then he's helpless to bring in the plan, isn't he?

If he can't get the support of enough members of Congress to close Guantanamo, then it stays open.

He must have a progressive congress to enact progressive legislation. Looks to me like he has a corrupt congress that is simply doing "business as usual" just as they have in the past....meaning they're bending over to the major lobbyists. If that's the case, then his hands are tied.

He will get the blame, but it won't be his fault.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 03:19 PM

Well said, Astro!

Dorothy, thanks for posting that.

It amazes me that the same people who voted for eight years of the shrub and have been rabidly against Obama from the start are now denigrating Obama for not have UNDONE all of the terrible, terrible mistakes the shrub made over eight years. It reminds me of when a woman is pregnant and may weary of her swollen body wondering if she will ever "get her figure" back. She is told, it takes nine months to get that way; allow nine months to return to "normal." So...by that reckoning, Obama ought to have eight years before the far right, etc. get after him, esp. as they are the ones who gave the shrub carte blanche to ruin the world, so to speak.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Peace
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 03:20 PM

The NPP has not often awarded because one created peace. It is usually awarded because one is working toward peace. I am surprised but happy that it went to Obama. He is worthy of the honour.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: DougR
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 07:03 PM

Peace: What do you suppose the reaction of the awards committee will be if Obama approves sending General McCrystal the 40,000 additional troops he said would be necessary to bring peace to Afghanistan?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 07:42 PM

DougR, it may depend on what those troops are used for.   If they blow up villages and treat the Afghani people as enemies, that will obviously be at odds with this "Peace Prize." If they serve more in ways that help rebuild Afghanistan while using espionage, etc., to find and destroy Al Quaeda, the "war" there may be over (or at least we may be able to withdraw) sooner.

Little Hawk is right.   There is not a lot that Obama can do to work towards peace as long as the big corporations who own our courts and our legislatures see war as good business.
And as long as the military is so heavily indoctrinated by right wingers, Obama may not have the kind of cooperation he needs from them.

Little Hawk - PM
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 02:59 PM

You are right, pdq, that the divided nature of America has not happened by accident, but is intentional.

The easiest way for a shadow government of huge finanical interests to disempower the general public is to set them at each other's throats through divisive partisan politics and divisive issues of all kinds. It also provides a good excuse for heightening domestic surveillance, increasing police powers, and reducing civil rights.

Obama himself does seem to have a whole different attitude towards the value of other nations and their people (and cultures) and towards how to work towards peace than the previous administration did.   At least, unlike Dubya, I don't think one of his goals or main strategies is "to be seen as a war President" for political capital.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: kendall
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 07:43 PM

It's a case of damned if he do and damned if he dont. He can not win this one.

I keep wondering if any of these people know any history.
Alexander the Great, the greates general in history was stopped in Afghanistan, the British were defeated there, the Russians left with their tails between their legs, so what makes the war mongers think we will sucdceed?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Emma B
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 08:03 PM

Robert Fisk is an English writer and journalist; he has been based mainly in Beirut for more than 30 years.
He holds more British and International Journalism awards than any other foreign correspondent.

today he observes....

'No way are they going to win.
The neocons say that "the graveyard of empire" is a cliché.
It is.
But it's also true.
The Afghan government is totally corrupted; its paid warlords – paid by Karzai and the Americans – ramp up the drugs trade and the fear of Afghan civilians'

Whether or not consensus can be achieved inside the White House, there are doubts across the political spectrum about the wisdom of sending more troops.

The word 'peace' is not used instead there is
'what it takes to get the mission done' from John Kerry, Democratic chairman of the Senate foreign relations committee

But, as he adds.....

"But the question is, given the absence of governance in Afghanistan and the fact that Al-Qaeda has been largely driven out of Afghanistan, exactly what that mission ought to be."

Peter Galbraith, the former United Nations deputy special representative to Afghanistan, who was sacked last month after speaking out on the election fraud, drew parallels with 1963, when Kennedy faced his dilemma over Vietnam.

"Obama clearly has doubts about sending more troops," he said. "It's his Kennedy moment — a young, untested president being pushed by all his military to send more troops and I hope he will make the same decision as Kennedy not to send more.

"How will you have success with a corrupt, ineffective government that most Afghans view as abusing power, and now compounding that is the illegitimacy of its election"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 08:31 PM

I think you're right, Kendall. Especially where Afghanistan is concerned, Obama is in a no-win position, thanks to the previous administration.
(We should have treated the "war" on Al Quaeda as an intelligence and police operation from the get-go -- starting, for instance, with not kicking fluent speakers of Arabic and Farsi out of the military for being gay.
I think Bush and Cheney, and their cohorts in the "war industry," felt it would be just fine if we were "stuck" in Afghanistan indefinitely.   More money for the defense industries, more fear on the part of the voters, more power to the Republicans, so more money to them and the other kinds of industries they are in bed with.
(And, yes, too many of the Dems are in bed with the same industries.)

Unfortunately, though we now have a new administration, getting out of this quagmire is no simple matter.   And if the Obama admistration could just order all of our troops home and then Al Quaeda regrouped in Afghanistan and, heaven forbid, pulled off another major attack on the US, we would soon have the same kind of Congress back in power as we had from 2000 to 2006 and another hawkish administration would be back in power in 2012.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: pdq
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 08:40 PM

"How will you have success with a corrupt, ineffective government that most...view as abusing power, and now compounding that is the illegitimacy of its election..."

Note: by leaving out one word from the esteemed Mr. Fisk's statement, it now applies to every country in the world. I mean every country including Canada, the U.S., France, South Africa, Cuba, Nicaragua, Iran...

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 08:58 PM

If Al Quaeda had the ability to pull off a major attack on the USA (such as 911), they would not necessarily need to do it from a base in Afghanistan. They could just as well do it from some other hidden location(s) in some other countries in Asia, the Middle East or Africa.

Occupying Afghanistan does not stop Al Quaeda. Al Quaeda is not a movement tied to any specific nation or government. It's a political movement.

Furthermore, I doubt that Al Quaeda even was the primary organizer of the 911 attacks. I think the primary organizer was much closer to home.

Anywy, if they weren't, then there never was any real reason to go into Afghanistan in the first place...that is, no real reason that the US government is openly telling you about, I mean.

It's much easier to start a war (or any kind of a fight) than it is to end one's involvement in it. All you have to do is start shooting or throw the first punch.

The 911 attacks were not an act of war, because they weren't committed by a foreign government or a nation's armed forces or a revolutionary army of any kind at all. They were committed by a secret cabal, a secret group of well-organized conspirators. As such, it was a criminal matter, not an act of war, and it should have been dealt with by international police work, not by war.

But it is my opinion that the 911 attacks were launched for one and only one purpose: to enable war to begin. So you have to ask yourself who wanted such a war, and why? And what was the objective? And who stood to profit? Who needed a "Pearl Harbor" level event to enable the USA to go to war?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: artbrooks
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 09:12 PM

And how many conspiracy theorists can dance on the end of a pin?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 09:19 PM

That would depend on the relative size of both the pin and the theorists.

The people who put together the official 911 report are also conspiracy theorists, by the way, but their particular conspiracy theory is full of gaping holes...and omissions.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 09:22 PM

Oh, LH, I totally agree with
your last post,
but for the very reasons you outlined therein, if Obama were to rapidly withdraw troops from Afghanistan -- especially against the advice of his Generals -- and we were to be attacked again, the Right wing and their lapdog media would surely use that to convince the populace at large that it just proves that Democrats can't "keep us safe."

(The fact that the Bush administration managed to convince so many people that they had "kept us safe" when the 9-11-01 attacks happened on their watch - that boggles the mind.)

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Oct 09 - 09:45 PM

Yes, Obama's in a very tricky spot in that sense, Genie. I don't believe he can win that war, but he is more or less obliged to somehow make it look like he has won it...at some point. I would not want to be stuck with that job.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Peace
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 12:13 AM

"Peace: What do you suppose the reaction of the awards committee will be if Obama approves sending General McCrystal the 40,000 additional troops he said would be necessary to bring peace to Afghanistan?"

I don't know what they'd say, Doug. Speaking as a Canadian, I'd say, "Thanks for the help!"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Emma B
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 07:41 AM

Although not a member of NATO Australia has 1500 troops stationed in Afghanistan; as Australians point out, their lives and the billion-dollar bill to support them - hinges on what the Americans decide.

One recent Australian report sums it up as -

…. polls show an increasing number of Americans want out.

The disenchantment is fuelled by rising violence, increasing US deaths, a perception that the US is not winning, and that the Afghan Government is inept, corrupt and inefficient.

At issue is whether the US should send more troops (US commander General Stanley McChrystal is reported to want between 10,000 and 40,000) and where they fit into a strategy aimed at shoring up an Afghan administration so it can ultimately provide security and some form of coherent government.

The primary aim is to prevent Afghanistan again becoming a base for al-Qaeda terrorists'

Along the way, the Taliban have re-emerged, using tactics taken from Iraq, exploiting the failings of the Afghan Government and the inability of foreign troops to provide security, and feeding on anger over civilian casualties inflicted by allied air strikes'



Officially, Washington "will not tolerate" the Taliban returning to power in Kabul despite their investment in Hamid Karzai who has encouraged Taliban political participation

It has been reported in the American press that Obama administration officials are signaling a slight shift, emphasizing the importance of the U.S. fight against Al Qaeda and its global ambitions while defining the group's Taliban allies as an indigenous movement.

However discussions on preventing a resurgent Taliban from "giving renewed sanctuary to al-Qaeda in Afghanistan" clearly forget that al-Qaeda had voluntarily left Afghanistan for Pakistan where there is a far greater aversion to foreign occupying troops than to Al-Qaeda

According to the Huffington Post some U.S. military and civilian officials in Afghanistan are now trying to negotiate with Afghan Taliban fighters to encourage them to "reintegrate."

Although Robert Gibbs said last week that if the ultimate goal is eliminating Al Qaeda, the Taliban is still a target. other U.S. officials made it clear that they are willing to consider some role for the Taliban in Afghanistan's government.
Asked whether the administration would tolerate any such role for the group, the State Department said it would be up to the people of Afghanistan.

"I think this is ultimately a decision for the Afghans," said P.J. Crowley, a State Department spokesman. "You solve insurgencies through political processes and reconciliation."

If militants are brought into the political system and choose to be part of it, "that would be a positive development.
There are a wide range of groups within the label 'Taliban,' tribal figures that are used to changing sides depending on what is happening at any particular time,"

So what is the war for?

And is the demonstration of additional force for -

'We need to show visible progress so that OUR publics at home know their sacrifices have not been in vain.

OUR citizens need to know that we are making progress toward our essential goal of defeating the insurgency and supporting the Afghans in their effort to secure and govern their own country.'
IVO H. DAALDER
U.S. Ambassador to NATO

And….......when did the intent of defeating the 'terrorists' become a war against indigenous insurgents?

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Little Hawk
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 09:23 AM

The sad truth which our governments will never admit to the public is that the deaths of our soldiers in Afghanistan have been in vain...as is so often the case with such wars.

The Soviet deaths there were likewise in vain.

And so were the British deaths there long before.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Peace
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 12:39 AM

True, LH. The single thing that bugs me most about Canadian troops being in Afghanistan is this: When we refused to join the 'Coalition of the Willing" (US, UK, Spain and Bulgaria--recall that sad scene with four people, one from each country on TV) for the invasion of Iraq, we got our peepees slapped big time by the USA and that sonuvabitch Bush. Cost our economy about five billion dollars. I think the trade off was that we send a few thousand soldiers thereby releasing a few thousand American soldiers to then go to Iraq. That pissed me off.

I do not think we should be there, either. However, we ARE there. Give the troops a mission they can do within a few years. NOT some vague "We are helping the Government of Afghanistan--what f#ckin' Government of Afghanistan?--to learn to rule themselves."

Soldiers need to be trained for peace-making. It does NOT come naturally to soldiers. It come from training.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 02:51 AM

Good points, Peace.

Oh, and Rachel Maddow made what I think is a very good analysis and evaluation of Obama's being awarded the Peace Prize, with some historical perspective.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMJuEOaF84o&feature=channel_page

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Arkie
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 01:10 PM

Objections to Obama's Pulitzer recognition is just one aspect of a dangerous state that exists in America today. Rachel Maddow's analysis of the award is excellent and based on identifiable evidence. Genie, thanks for posting. While I do not expect all Americans to agree on Obama's action and policy I would expect a great majority of Americans to be honored that the elected leader of this country would receive a prestigious prize for world peace. Obama has shown no indication that he believes he is "a panacea for the ills of the world" nor any sign of "ego" as a result of this award. He put the award in perspective and displayed a sense of humility that is not that common among powerful leaders. I would also like to see the foreign involvement in Afganistan come to an end, but that does not mean that country's problems will come to an end. Nor did American involvement in Afganistan create the problems in that country. Obama has not achieved peace in his own country but he had made great effort in that respect. He made overtures to the Republican Party to establish a non-partisan government. He offered to work with Republicans in establishing health reform. His efforts have been refused even though the American people would best be served by the country's leaders joining together to work out solutions. I for one am proud to have a President with high ideals and high expectations for himself, the country, and its people. Even those people who show no respect for him or his office.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 01:44 PM

Thanks for the link Genie.

In the clip, Limbaugh on the Chicago Olympic bid loss reminds me of the Palestinians dancing in the streets on 9-11. Bet he wouldn't like that analogy.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 02:04 PM

TIA, the way "El Rushbo" has been acting recently, I'm not so sure he wouldn't embrace his similarity to those who cheered on 9-11.    Conventional wisdom says "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."   So isn't it kind of a corollary that "The friend of my enemy is my enemy?"   If so, I'd think Limbaugh, Beck and their ilk would think twice before bloviating about having the same reaction as the Taliban, Hugo Chavez, etc., to Obama's being awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: Genie
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 02:16 PM

Thinking of the reactions of the far Right bloviators to both Chicago not getting the 2016 Olympics and to Obama's being awarded the Peace Prize, this thought jumps out at me:

When Chicago (the US) was passed over for the Olympics (on the first ballot), a huge headline ran in Right-wing newspapers (echoed by Limbaugh, Beck, etc.):
WORLD REJECTS OBAMA

(The subtext, of course, might include "The world rejects diplomacy, liberalism, egalitarianism, populism, etc. in favor of US exceptionalism, militariasm, Christian theocracy, etc." I.e., "The world is sorry that Obama/Biden defeated McCain/Palin in 2008 and would prefer a continuation of the policies of Bush/Cheney.")

I'm not sure exactly when the Nobel Committee voted - was it after the Olympics committee did? - but it really does kind of seem like the Nobel Peace Prize Committee was replying (to that ridiculous headline:

"OH, YEAH!???   THINK AGAIN!!"

Subject: RE: BS: Obama Awarded Nobel Peace Prize
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Oct 09 - 11:01 PM

I remember a President saying "you're either with us, or with the terrorists". So, those who are against the President are either with the terrorists, or monstrous hypocrites. Their choice.


Note that I am not saying that anyone who opposes the President is a terrorist. But, I was called such for doing such. But the bloviators memories are as short as their greed is long.