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BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization??
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Don Firth Date: 05 Jul 11 - 03:27 PM GfS, maybe I'm missing something here. "...wasn't there a 'gay' performance of it, in West Hollywood?..and even the female parts were men.... Both Judy Collins, and Dan Fogelberg did a version of Judi's Fogelberg, 'Since You've Asked' and this is her original version(She wrote it) Judy Collins 'Since You've Asked' ..and the change in the lyrics made it ok..but in opera, not so good...or the age or gender change." A "gay" performance of what? Turandot? I don't know. I never heard of it if there was. And how does this relate to the videos you linked to (beautiful graphics, by the way). If there was a difference in lyrics between the two versions, I couldn't pick it up. Judy Collins' voice is as clear as a bell and her diction is quite precise, but in the Fogelberg video, the musical arrangement, lovely though it was, made the lyrics muddy and indistinct. So if there was a difference in lyrics, I wasn't able to distinguish it. But again. How does this relate? And what do I think Puccini would think of the differences between the Judy Collins and Dan Fogelberg videos? I haven't a clue! Could you clarify a bit? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 05 Jul 11 - 03:21 AM Don, I found it.....the other stuff was going on, so I didn't check for a couple of days....I'm going to think about it....because, just as I was in perfect agreement with you, as far as to a concert versus opera performance,...wasn't there a 'gay' performance of it, in West Hollywood?..and even the female parts were men.... Both Judy Collins, and Dan Fogelberg did a version of Judi's Fogelberg, 'Since You've Asked' and this is her original version(She wrote it) Judy Collins 'Since You've Asked' ..and the change in the lyrics made it ok..but in opera, not so good...or the age or gender change. Hmm, I wonder why............What would you think Puccini would think?..and Why? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Don Firth Date: 04 Jul 11 - 08:35 PM GfS, you've got to learn to read thoroughly. Or at least scan a bit more thoroughly. On 01 July at 5:04 p.m., I responded to a post of Sawzaw's. Then, I inserted a divider (####) and wrote a fairly long and detailed answer to your question about Jackie Evancho's singing of Nessun Dorma and what Puccini may very well have thought of it. Along with some other obsevations. Go look. Actually, I've been waiting for your response to that, and wondering if you'd just lost interest. Why would you think I might not respond to your question? It's hardly one that would be any kind of challenge to me. Opera is a subject in which I am particularly well versed. Don Firth P. S. By the way, Barbara and I have guests coming this evening, arriving in about half an hour, so I probably won't be able to get back to you until tomorrow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jul 11 - 07:44 PM I wonder if Don thinks I don't know why he is not answering my opera comment..... Too much food for thought, eh, Don, and you've got indigestion? GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 04 Jul 11 - 08:34 AM Your blood sugar level must be low, GfinS... B;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jul 11 - 07:24 AM OR...... Bobert: "Yeah, in the words of the late and great Waylon Jennings, "We need a change"..." Still waiting.....?????????? I guess 'Change' was just another bullshit promise, from the same o' bullshit factory! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 04 Jul 11 - 07:03 AM Bobert: "Yeah, in the words of the late and great Waylon Jennings, "We need a change"..." Still waiting..... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 03 Jul 11 - 10:55 PM You beat me to that quote, Don... It was in Ike's farewell address to the nation and I think that given his past that we should have taken his advice... Since then we have be embroiled in war after war after war and gotten nothin' out of any of them... We have shredded trillions and trillions of dollars and wasted the lives of so many people that if the *US* didn't have nuclear capabilities, it would certainly have been implicated in War Crimes... Yeah, in the words of the late and great Waylon Jennings, "We need a change"... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Don Firth Date: 03 Jul 11 - 10:05 PM Good quote, kat! Thanks for posting that. Just in case. For those who fell asleep in American History class or who are otherwise clueless-- Eisenhower was a Republican. He's also the President who warned the nation of the dangers of the "military-industrial" complex. (DAMN, it would help if people paid attention!!) Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: katlaughing Date: 03 Jul 11 - 09:35 PM "spose Ike was psychic?: Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Their number is negligible and they are stupid. - Dwight D. Eisenhower I hope he was correct! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 03 Jul 11 - 06:29 PM To me, a terrorist is someone that uses scare tactics. A person who employs terror or terrorism, esp as a political weapon. A person who terrorizes or frightens others. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 02 Jul 11 - 07:44 PM The Rasmussen Poll is the FoxNews of polling... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Stringsinger Date: 02 Jul 11 - 07:29 PM I looked at the Rasmussen poll and wondered how accurate it was since it didn't specify in what ways Americans agree with the Tea Party. The problem with polls is how they ask the questions. With a slight variation in the question, a reverse result is possible. The term "terrorist" has lost all sense of meaning because it can refer to any violent activity that is done in the name of an ideology, including nationalism or religion. It is a political football to be used to denigrate anyone who holds views that are antithetical to established ones by political officials. Maybe the Tea Party is a terrorist organization as is some of the policies regarding the US role in Afghanistan (Blackwater, Special Ops, and the CIA), Iraq, Libya, Pakistan, Gaza (the Mossad) and if these are called by that name would it apply? Maybe the term "terrorist" is generic and applies to any ideology that is enforced by violence with which someone doesn't agree. I remember when "communist" was the ad hominem term of choice to be applied liberally to anyone who was controversial and not in lockstep with the prevailing pseudo-national propaganda being sold to the public. To claim that the Tea Party is close to what Americans actually believe is really hard to accept as a legitimate appraisal since it's modus operandi is often a shield for corporate America, they, apparently divided on this point by their own members, some who claim a grass roots movement independent of corporate influence. I have not heard any Tea Party member on the media decry the Koch Brothers or their Americans for Prosperity which makes me suspicious that there is any genuine grass roots movement worth talking about. The Tea Party movement is predicated on a distorted view of American history through a misunderstanding of what the Boston Tea Party was about, a rebellion against the East India Tea Company and it's attempt to corner the market on the sale of tea in the Colonies. This is never presented in most history classes in grade or high school. BTW, there were no tea bags then. This underscores the trumped-up symbolism that the organization attempts to market. Also, a final note: counter-terrorism can be seen as a form of terrorism if it uses a violent response by fighting fire with fire. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 02 Jul 11 - 04:22 PM "Taking pot-shots" is what Bobert does when he takes a dead guy with a lot in common with him, connects him with the tea party the KKK and the Taliban and chuckles about it as if he has done some intelligent thing that is going to make the world better. When some one refers to a certain individual as a "house negro" or a "porch negro" they are using a racist term as a pejorative. That is the whole idea. To denigrate a person because of their skin color, personal, political or religious beliefs. I do not do that. Furthermore Bobert does it in such a bellicose manner that it seems ingrained in his personality. Then he accuses the Tea Party members of doing the same which #1 he provides no proof and #2 makes believe it is OK for him to do so but wrong for someone else to do so. Bobert is the one that has attacked me and called me stupid insane etc. etc. because I disagree with him. This intolerance for anyone that disagrees with him is bigotry. His hatred for Condolezza Rice and Clarence Thomas speaks of bigotry. Would he using such harsh racial terms on a white person in the same position? Some people think Black people are under their care because they cannot take care of themselves, keep telling them they are victims and they need Democrats to take care of them. When they see one that does not follow their agenda, they can't control their racism and the racial terms appear. I have said umpteen times, we need to forget about skin color but Bobert types have to keep stoking the fire and blaming it on others. His constant statements of "facts" and his refusal to support his "facts" and his brags about his accuracy make me conclude his is a blowhard. He seems to enjoy arguing about his facts that can't support and insulting people in the process. I don't see him holding back on his vicious accusations of other people. "they want to kill so and so, so you need to by guns, they hate anybody that disagrees with them, they will kill them". I don't care who sings or plays what. If someone objects to someone doing something due to skin color it would be a racial matter. I started to post something here about Jackie Evancho and my limited interest in Opera but I did not do so because I thought you would claim I was patronizing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Don Firth Date: 02 Jul 11 - 02:31 PM Just to finish off this libel of yours, Sawzaw. I read the posts that you linked to, and yes, indeed, Bobert used the words you said he did. BUT—I also read enough of the discussion surrounding Bobert's posts to get a good idea of the nature of the discussion. It's called putting the matter into context, Sawzaw, and that can totally change the nature and meaning of what is said. IN THE CONTEXT of the discussions, there is nothing in any of those posts to base an accusation of "bigotry" or "racism" against Bobert. He is talking about specific individuals, not about whole races or groups. I mentioned earlier my being criticized by self-appointed PC Police for singing "Black Girl" because I am white myself. And Richard Dyer-Bennet's being criticized for singing "John Henry," a song about a legendary black man while he, Dyer-Bennet, is white. Dyer-Bennet's answer was sharp and to the point. And I was told by four black friends and co-workers that criticizing me for singing "Black Girl" because it might offend blacks is utter nonsense, and that I should go ahead and sing the song. Bobert sings blues—and there are goof-ball people out there in the world, not black people, who object to white people singing blues because "blues is black music and white people shouldn't be allowed to sing it!" Jazz has its roots in the blues. So where do you draw the line? As to the verbiage that Bobert used in those posts ("porch Negro" and "house Negro"), I have heard black friends, during political discussions, use those same terms in relation to the very same people that Bobert was talking about. Yes, they are pejorative. As was one black friend's use of the expression "shuckin' and jivin'" in relation to one of these same black political figures within the Bush administration. Sawzaw, it's obvious to all that you've got some particular grudge against Bobert and that you are singling him out for special harassment in the form of what is legally libel and slander. Fortunately for you, you are hiding behind a "handle," which allows you to hide your real identity. Taking pot-shots from the underbrush the way you are doing is the sign of a coward! GET OFF BOBERT'S CASE!!! You are making a complete ASS of yourself. Push back from the computer, which you have to be spending all of your time in front of to be reading all the blogs you cut-and-paste from and spending so much time logged on to Mudcat. Go outside. Breath some fresh air. Got to the park. Watch the squirrels. Smell the flowers. For YOUR OWN SAKE, man, GET A LIFE!! Don Firth P. S. END of communication with Sawzaw. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 01 Jul 11 - 10:47 PM Idiot... Stalker... Mentally ill person... What more can I say??? Nothing... And I'm settin' about to say ***exactly that***, as in "nothing", in response to anymore of Sawz postings... Jesus said, "Shake the dust off your robe"... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Jul 11 - 10:16 PM Here ya go Don This is what you asked for. Bobert is going to claim I am stalking him but you are the one that wanted it. Anything else sir? Bobert Bobert Bobert Bobert Bobert Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Jul 11 - 09:27 PM Wasn't it Bobert that said he goes to mudcat and light up a stinkbomb? Isn't it Bobert's transparently vicious attempts at slander when he blames a poor deranged dead guy on the tea party and then coflates it to the Taliban and the KKK? How chickenshit is that? "from a document complaining to the NAACP, demanding that they somehow put an end to black conservatives receiving e-mails containing messages of this type" Try catching your breath and reading it before you characterize it. It was an interview with the NAACP in which condemened the use of the same racist terms Bobert uses. "his observations on the way things ARE" They are his projections on other people of what he claims they are saying when in fact it is what he is saying. He says someone is a "porch negro" and you claim that is the way it is? Then you are calling someone a "porch negro" too. Then you demand proof of when Bobert said it, put up or shut up I did and still you are not satisfied. Why don't you get Bobert to answer questions and support his facts? All he says is somebody is picking on him he is a victim and he does not have to answer. I always attempt to answer questions. i answer yours. Where are his? I am saying we need to put racisim behind us But Bobert keeps wanting to stir it up and keep it going as if he is the last buggy whip maker and wants to keep buggies in production. He just can't let racism go and balmes it on others. He holds "a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America" |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 01 Jul 11 - 09:00 PM I don't either, Don... I have read where computers will kinda tailor their searches to finding stuff you agree with and sawz says that his has nothing on "Dixiecrats"... Mine, I Google Dixiecrats and get 2000 sites about them??? That's purdy bad when your own computer takes over and decides what you need to know... Thankfully, I am curious so I Google up so many different things that mine hasn't taken to feeding me a steady diet of horse manure... No matter... Looks as if Saws is going to stalk Jack the Sailor for a while... Sorry, Jack, but happy to have him on to another person to obsess over... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Don Firth Date: 01 Jul 11 - 08:41 PM My suspicion is that Sawzaw doesn't have much of a life in the 3-D world. Otherwise, how would he have so much time to put lengthy posts here on Mudcat, mostly cut-and-pasted from various Right-Wing web sites. Wading through all that garbage to find the kind of thing he wants to post here has to take a lot of time. I wonder if he's seen the out-of-doors lately—or spent much time recently with people who are actually in the room with him. I go away for awhile, and when I come back, he has another dozen long posts up. Hell, I don't have time to wade through all of that! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 01 Jul 11 - 08:20 PM Works for me, Don... Most of the time I just "turn the radio up"... It's easier to do when sawz-troll doesn't find an accomplice... This time he found GfinS and used her since he could see that me and the GfinS ain't on the same page most of the time... I guess that's why this round has ended somewhat differently from other rounds... The sad part about this is the "needs" that Sawz must have that aren't being met in his real world life (if he has one)... That is terribly sad and it really breaks my heart that there are folks out there who have to resort to cyber-trolling to feel somewhat fulfilled... Like I said on in an earlier post: glad it ain't me... But it still is sad... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Don Firth Date: 01 Jul 11 - 08:06 PM From an article on trolling and flaming on the internet: "One motive (of trolls and flamers) is the desire for attention and for self-entertainment derived at the expense of others. Posted flame-bait can provide the poster with a controlled trigger-and-response setting in which to anonymously engage in conflicts and indulge in aggressive behavior without facing the consequences that such behavior might bring in a face-to-face encounter.The article goes into considerable detail as to the kind of techniques that trolls and flamers are prone to, but it concludes with the best way to handle trolls and flamers. "Follow the oft-given but rarely taken advice, 'Don't feed the troll!' No matter how outrageous or insulting they are being, don't respond.Works for me. Why don't we all give it a shot? Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Don Firth Date: 01 Jul 11 - 07:56 PM This comes from the web site of the The National Leadership Network of Black Conservatives' "Project 21," from a document complaining to the NAACP, demanding that they somehow put an end to black conservatives receiving e-mails containing messages of this type. Since Sawzaw has not made clear what his intent is by posting this material here, from his history, particularly on this thread, it appears to me that what he is trying to do is imply that Bobert is somehow associated with sending these messages. I'm beginning to find Sawzaw's transparently vicious attempts at slander absolutely contemptible. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Jul 11 - 07:13 PM Borelli: "I'm a black, female conservative. I'm often targeted by individuals who call me all kinds of names: racist, an Uncle Tom, a traitor - you name it. I'd like to know if the NAACP will issue a statement condemning those individuals who were doing that." Shelton: "Why, yes, ma'am Just give us some details The very broad answer is yes, we repudiate anybody calling you a bad name in the political arena." Shelton added that the NAACP repudiated past assaults on Bush Administration cabinet members General Colin Powell and Dr. Condoleezza Rice. In 2004, then- NAACP President and CEO Kweisi Mfume said, "attacks on Rice by the radio host and political cartoonists who use stereotypes and racial caricatures are just as bad as those who hide under sheets and burn crosses. This is something the NAACP has fought against for more than 95 years and something we will continue to oppose." Mfume was understood to be referring to WTDY-Madison radio host John "Sly" Sylvester calling Rice "Aunt Jemima," cartoonist Ted Rall calling Rice President Bush's "house nigga," cartoonist Garry Trudeau calling her "Brown Sugar" and cartoonists Pat Oliphant and Jeff Danziger drawing her with accentuated black features and a rural dialect. Sylvester also called Colin Powell "Uncle Tom" on the air. In response to Shelton's request to Borelli for details, a letter from Borelli was delivered to Shelton's office on July 28. In it, Borelli described some racist statements made against her and other Project 21 members and attached a packet of e-mails and postings on the Internet in which she and other Project 21 members have been called "Uncle Tom," "Auntie Tom," "Sambo," "house negro," "treasonous," "black tea-bagging ni**er," "sell out," "retarded," "hypocritical," "coon," "Stepin Fetchit," and a "modern day mammy," "despicable piece of garbage," "black cancer" and "black bitch." Among the samples of emails sent to Borelli and forwarded to Shelton was this: You faggot niggas need to be lynched by the Klan. I pray a nightrider strings up every one of you no count good for nothing niggas, it would serve you right for trying to think that these crackers love you. I hate a house nigga worse than I do a Klansman. Rot in hell you scurvy dogs. I would laugh to see you body strung up. It would save us real brothers the time and trouble to do it. Borelli also told Shelton: As we both seek a more civil debate, I am sure you are as appalled by these statements and the many others like them as I am. And I once again want to thank you for your on-air agreement on July 17 that the NAACP will specifically condemn the slurs made against me because I am an outspoken black conservative woman. We very much appreciate having the weight and prestige of the NAACP behind an effort to stop this unwarranted, unfair and uncivil treatment of people based solely on their political beliefs and skin color. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 01 Jul 11 - 05:41 PM Tahnks, Don... Stalking is exactly what it is... Sawz would like folks to think this is a two way thing... If it was then I'd go back and refresh threads just to attack Sawz when in fact I have never done that... I really don't give a rat's ass about sawz except when he's going thru his little cyber-psychotic episodes... Here's the real deal: check out how many times Sawz has refreshed an old thread just to stalk me??? Dozens... Perhaps a hundred, I donno and don't much care... BTW, before he came here as Sawz he was Dickey (or something like that) and before that he was Old Guy (or something like that)... I mean, he does constantly marginalize himself here with various handles and then has to re-register as someone "new"... Oh well, enough... You an' GfinS knock yerselves out with that "highbrow (lol) music"... I'm just a bluesman and the P-Vine's love slave (lol), I mean, chauffeur & gopher... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Jul 11 - 05:27 PM Dear Me Firth: Take check on how many times Bobert has flamed me and I have resisted flaming him back. And your once only once is incorrect plus BS is separate from the music and tech forums. I have never once called him stupid or ignorant which he is not. I am not the only one that has assailed his "facts" or drew his anger because he could not shut them up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Jul 11 - 05:14 PM "Let a black man become president and it's time for the "revolution" buy guns, lots of ammo and learn to shoot straight 'cause these rednecks mean to kill people who ain't like them... they are out there preachin' violence, people feek empowered to think that violence is perfectly okay. If the rednecks want out that bad then don't let the door hit ya'll on the way out... Ya'll allready have the highest divorce rates, the highest obesity rates, the highest health care costs, the dumbest people, the most per cpaital federal tax dollars returend to ya'll so ya'll becoming a drain on the rest of the country.... Yeah, if ya'll want out then fine with me... I rather live in an ara where people ain't brought up thinking that the government owed them everything while criticizing the hand that feeds 'um... I mean, these people couldn't survive 30 days without the northweat and west coast paying in the bigass $$$s that in turn got dooled out to them... Bunch of ungratefull crybabies as far as I can see... BTW, the US now is 18th in high school graduation rates in the top 24 industrialized countries... Come to where I live an' you'll understand in about 10 minutes... I mean, I never thought I'd see our country so dumbed down... I mean, eat up with stupidity and ignorance and the worst part about it is that the Repubs have lived at the "Elitist (eductaed) plate" for so long that there are entire regions that think that education is stupid???? Gee what a refreshing new humanitarian slant on "reality" First of all Bobert, you do know how education works in other countries don't you? Being so learned you must know that if a student does not pan out academically they are shunted off to Vocational school can never graduate from high school and are not included in those stats of yours. Sometimes they are split 3 ways, high school, general education and vocational. Now suppose you, having learned all about bogus statistcs in a **college course**, add them to the number of people that did not graduate from high school in those other industrialized countries. The US is the only country that tries to force every student through high school and many of them drop out. But I am not going to arrogantly assign you homework and demand that you have to prove I am right. I am actually going to reject blowhardism and back up my facts. The majority of Europeans spend at least nine or ten years at school. It is where they gain the basic knowledge, skills and competences that they need throughout their lives, and the place where fundamental attitudes and values develop. Schools should set their pupils on the path to a lifetime of learning, if they are to prepare them for the modern world. A sound school education system also helps ensure open and democratic societies by training people in citizenship, solidarity and participative democracy. Dang, you know right there off the top, it sounds like over half of Europeans never get past 10th grade. Even less if they count Kindergarten. The United States public school system is so different from public school systems in other nations that comparisons of student achievement almost certainly lack any validity. For one thing, enrollment rates differ sharply. Elementary school education is compulsory throughout the world and enrollment rates approach 100% as they do in the United States. Enrollment rates at the middle and high school levels, however, average a mere 58% in the rest of the world, compared to a rate of more than 96% in the United States, where academic secondary school education is compulsory and universal. Thus, most secondary school systems in other countries are self-selective, automatically weeding out low achievers when they reach the age of 12 or 14 and either sending them off to labor, as they do in thirdworld countries, or to apprenticeships or vocational schools, as they do in the more advanced, industrialized nations such as France, Germany and Japan, among others. The process allows only the academically gifted to remain in academic high schools to compete in international testing with a far more average cross-section of American high school students. The American public school system is unique in that it is the only system in the world attempting to provide universal, academically oriented education to a massively heterogeneous student population of rich, poor, English- speaking, non English-speaking, white, minority, handicapped, learning disabled, hearing or visually impaired, emotionally disturbed and mentally retarded sometimes all in one building or classroom. Average achievement levels rise in schools with relatively advantaged, homogeneous student populations. It is not difficult to understand that the achievement level will be higher in classrooms with students who speak the same language, are equally healthy and wealthy, and from whom all disruptive children have been culled. The chances are nil of achieving the same academic results in a student population without similar advantages. If such comparisons have little statistical validity, they do, however, bring to the fore the question of whether the American public school education system should be doing what it is trying to do or whether it should convert its system to one more akin to those of Europe or Japan. So now perfesser Bobert, you can take the podium and support your "facts" |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Don Firth Date: 01 Jul 11 - 05:04 PM It seems pretty obvious to me that Sawzaw has started a FLAME WAR against Bobert. A quick check shows me that he has been posting on Mudcat since September or 2008, and out of over 2,600 posts, he has posted on a MUSIC THREAD and that was to ask what the difference is between Steeleye Span and Steely Dan. Other than that, what, exactly, is Sawzaw actually doing here on a Music website? Much of the time he has been here, he has fairly obviously been making it a special point to rag on Bobert at every opportunity. It looks a whole lot like STALKING to me! I suggest totally ignoring him. At least until, and unless, he learns to behave like a civilized human being. #### OKAY, EVERYONE! BACK TO YOUR CORNERS! IT'S TIME FOR A MUSICAL INTERLUDE!! Hey, GfS! You still there? My opinion, for what it's worth: I don't think Puccini would disapprove, necessarily, of Jackie Evancho's performance of Nessun Dorma , and he certainly wouldn't be offended. I think he would identify her as a very promising singer, and one to keep his eye on as she grew and developed as a singer. He, and other opera composers, often wrote the parts in their operas with a specific singer in mind. For example, Mozart wrote the part of The Queen of the Night in "The Magic Flute" with a particular coloratura soprano in mind. He wanted the aria to be a show-stopper, and he knew the singer he was thinking of could hit all the high notes he wanted to put in it (practically dog-whistle range, and the highest note for a soprano in any opera written so far!). But as to Jackie's singing that particular aria, I'm pretty sure Puccini would think pretty much as I did. That she did it very well, but other than singing it in a concert situation, she would never really be able to do anything else with it. She certainly couldn't sing it in the actual opera, because she would also have to sing everything else written for the part, wear the costumes, and act the role as well. Not real convincing if done by an eleven-year-old girl. And whenever she sang it in concert or recital (as a regular musical performance rather than being presented as, essentially, a child prodigy, the audience members who are familiar with it (and that would be almost all of them) couldn't help but think, "That's a tenor aria. Why is she singing it?" No matter how marvelously she did it, there would always be a noticable "clank!" there. She would be far better off learning arias that she might actually be able to use later on if she goes into a career in opera. Or musical theater. And there are quite a few songs and arias from both genres that she could sing quite impressively, without having to dip into songs written specifically for a male singer. Puccini wrote operas that are quite popular with opera-going audiences ("La Bohème," "Madama Butterfly," "Tosca," "Girl of the Golden West," and a number of others), and beautiful and dramatic as they are, with a few exceptions, they are generally considered relatively easy on the voices of opera singers. In addition to o mio babbino caro from "Gianni Schicchi" that that Jackie burst into the limelight with, there is Chi il bel sogno di Dorettafrom his short opera, "La Rondine" ("The Swallow"). I think this would be within her abilities, but her voice teacher should be the one to make that determination. Here's one of the world's great divas, Kiri Te Kanawa, singing it: CLICKY. I'm afraid I don't quite grasp the rest of your question. As far as writing songs for a specific gender or type of voice is concerned, I think who should sing the song and who really shouldn't depends on a number of factors. It would be a bit odd to hear a male singer sing Nelly Forbush's song from "South Pacific," "I'm Gonna Wash That Man Right Outta My Hair!" Would kinda make you wonder a bit (but let's not go there!). Or for that matter, a light soprano singing "Ol' Man River." Although I have heard female singers do "Some Enchanted Evening" and bring it off quite well. A lot depends on the song and the context. Don Firth Okay, everybody! Back to your customary uncivilized behavior!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 01 Jul 11 - 10:42 AM BTW, Sawz... You a a LIAR of the HIGHEST ORDER!!! You are so ignorant that you are clueless as to just how eat-up stupid you are and the worst part about it all is that you... ...are proud to be eat-up ignorant and stupid... Get off your high horse and learn something, man... Take a course in "race studies" and until then just SHUT THE FUCK UP!!! People here don't need to see you act out your stupidity, your ignorance, your obsessive compulsive disorder and what ever other mental problems from which you suffer... Have a nice day, LIAR of the HIGHEST ORDER!!! B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Jul 11 - 04:33 AM Still not finished with that last post. Because Democrats believe they "own" black people, they get blinded with rage when they see a black person that does not fit into the stereotype they have created for black folks, dumb, incapable of running their own life and devoted to Democrats who take care of them. When they see a Condi or a Clarence Thomas whom they consider off the reservation, uppity negros, not following their rules for blacks, the racial slurs come out and their racism is exposed. Right there is your institutionalized racism. in the Democratic party. LBJ: "I'll have those n***ers voting Democratic for the next 200 years" Tea Party Member Kevin Jackson: "As a black man, I love it when ignorant white women like Janeane Garofalo speak for all blacks. It's thrilling to me that Janeane would take time out of her busy Hollyweird life to protect me and my peeps-the downtrodden, the oppressed-the lowly Negro. For her efforts, I thank Garofalo, and anoint her Janeane Garofalo: White Chick Protector of the Lowly Negro. Who better than she to offer such protection? Garofalo, after all is an American hero! And I bet you were wondering who could possibly replace the likes of Barbara Streisand or Susan Sarandon-Madonna? Garofalo is so in touch with the black condition, that she is uniquely qualified to assess and understand my people's "condition." Her intimate knowledge of blacks allows her to interpret how blacks think, and then translate "black-think" for the rest of America. "Cuz Lawd knows, we kaints do dis for ourselfs." One source of Garofalo's insights into the black community, ergo the "black condition" is no doubt from Hollywood, as she is a product of that culture. Garofalo probably has in her movie collection films like Cleopatra Jones, the black heroine who is oppressed by the man. What 'White Chick Protector of the Lowly Negro' collection would be complete without Superfly. Talk about learning how to stick it to the man, Superfly is the boilerplate, dare I say the 'White Chick Protector of the Lowly Negro' roadmap on how to stick it to the man. Further, Ron O'Neal, the actor who played Superfly, the black protagonist of the movie could easily be the predecessor for our first half-black president. Who can argue that Obama is indeed 'sticking it to the white man?' The irony of Garofalo's comments is that they point directly at her own racist party: The Democrats! I am always amazed at how well Democrats argue the tenets of racism'against themselves. The party that founded the Ku Klux Klan has the nerve to proselytize to Republicans about racism. Democrats have done nothing, repeat nothing for blacks, except to exploit blacks for Democrats' own racist agendas. If you don't believe me, look at, well'Janeane Garofalo! Garofalo is a failed comedian, a hack of an actress, a failed radio talk-show host, and essentially has been out of the mainstream since making B-movies that had the viewership of an Olbermann segment on MSNBC! I get more views on my YouTube videos of racist Democrats picking lent from their navels and eating Cheetos. Admittedly those are funny, and the hit count is rising. In typical racist Democrat elitist fashion, Garofalo feels the need to meddle in the black community. I can't imagine a life where I wake up in the morning and say something like, 'I think today I will read an article on [insert oppressed here], and then go on [insert oppressed here] TV to protect those pitiful, stupid, weak [insert oppressed here]. Kevin you are a wonderful man for caring about these people who obviously have no spokesperson, and can't protect themselves! I love me some ME! Such is the life of a racist Democrat elitist. Protectors of the World oh, and their own agendas! Here's the wrap: Black people should be up in arms over the idea that Garofalo thinks we are so weak, that we cannot defend ourselves. A group of people who survived slavery and the institutionalized racism of the Democratic Party, but we need the White Chick Protector of the Lowly Negro. Further we should be offended that she is meddling not for us, but for her own benefit. She thinks we are stupid enough to support her lame attempt to exploit us. Are there not real black issues on which Garofalo could have been working in the black community that could have positive impact? I doubt it, since five decades of blacks voting Democrat have fixed all of the black community's problems. Finally, and perhaps most absurd of all is Garofalo actually proves herself to be not only a racist, but the worst kind of racist an ignorant racist. She obviously knows nothing about the overwhelmingly racist history of her own party, and its decimation of black people. Black people, wake up. What you have here is a no talent racist hack arguing for you, when there is no real issue. And it doesn't take a genius to connect the dots on this one. Garofalo is the prototypical elitist, who believes blacks to be weak and stupid. With those perceptions of blacks, she is the perfect representative of the racist, elitist Democrat Party. How did we survive without them?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 01 Jul 11 - 03:53 AM "This thread is about the terror-istic tactics of of the Tea Party" It is about Bobert's terror tactics to try to discredit the Tea party using a person that had nothing to do with the Tea party. Bobert was the originator of the racist comments. He was not quoting anybody. He uses racist terms and is therefore a racist. His comments are in direct conflict with obama's comments do either Bobert id full of shit or Obama. Which is it? I am going with Oabma. I don't always agree but I am able to to say what I agree with and what I don't agree with unlike the tribal thinking Bobert. Bobert is too chicken shit to say Obama is wrong or to admit he is wrong. He beleives he can over ride the opinion of a black person with his own "superior" thoughts. Right there is the proof of racisim. Democrats act as if they "own" black people because they "saved" them from slavery by opposing the Republicans when in fact they fought to keep them in slavery as long as they could in opposition to Republicans who voted in Civil rights laws and then enforded them in opposition to Democrats. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 01 Jul 11 - 12:04 AM Gosh look what happens, DURING A COMPETITION, when these two, and you see it, begin to blow off the fact that they are competing, and just sing TOGETHER!! I saw them do it live, and it blew me away!! remember now, only one could win..and look what happened! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 30 Jun 11 - 08:50 PM Again, Don hits the nail on the head... This thread is about the terror-istic tactics of of the Tea Party... Much of what they have done or have threatened to do goes back to the KKK... It is entirely appropriate for me to talk about race because I have a perspective that I doubt anyone here in Mudburg has which includes: 1. Coming from a family that was engaged in civil rights very early... My mom's first demonstration was in 1961 and her first arrest in 1963... 2. Having a black kid brought into our family and live with us as a brother and family member... 3. Attending an inner city college with black people... 4. Organizing anti-war and civil right demonstrations in the 60s with black folks, SOC, the Black Panthers, the White Panthers (Free John Sinclair), SCLC, etc... 5. Worked one year during college for the local CAP (Community Actipon Program) as a community organizer in a black housing project... 6. After graduation from college working 3 years in an inner city drug rehab half way house and working in as a jail house GED teacher in the Richmond City jail... (Note: In both of these I was a lone white face...) 7. Working the next 14 (or so, might have been 13 or 15 years) years as a social worker working with predominately black clients... 8. During most of these years I lived with or among black folks... 9. Since then I have lived in and around mountain people, hillbillies & rednecks... 10. But also since then I have made several pilgrimages to Mississippi where I met and learned to play blues from the older black musicians and put in 7 years (every Saturday) as a regular at Archie Edwards barbershop in NE Washington D.C playing music with black blues players... Bottom line??? All of my life's experiences have given me a perspective on race that I'd dare say few white guys my age have any idea of... Yeah, sometimes I do take shortcuts in my explanations of how things are because I think I am talkin' with folks who have some level of understanding about race, civil rights, our own history, including slavery, Jim Crow, Brown v., Plessy v., the 14th amendment, the Civil Rights Act, Dixiecrats, the Southern Strategy, nooses in high schools, ect., etc... I lived and worked and partied and loved almost exclusively with black folks, including my brother, the late Joesph Washington who lived as part of our family for almost 30 years and when things changed there I continued my relationship with black people with with my music right up until now... But it isn't what I have done but what I have learned and read and internalized... I mean, with very little work I could probably teach "race studies"... Maybe without any work... These are the things I have brought to Mudcat, a lily white folkie website where the single black person who ventured in ventured back out... I keep in touch with her and she knows just who I am... That is something that a lot of white folks don't get... There's a rhythm and a look that I learned way back when that is part of me... When I see black folks who I don't know (especially with the folks who remember the terrorism of Jim Crow and the KKK) and make eye contact there is a little nod (secret handshake) between us that lets us both know that we ***were there***... I wouldn't expect sawz ot too many folks here to understand what I am talking about but any professor in "race studies" could talk about it... It's a non-verbal connection that we both understand what has gone down... This is the last post I am going to post on my past and why when I talk about race I am actually talking about the kinds of things that any "race studies" professor would be talking about... Yes, I do use language that people might find offensive... You can't teach "race studies" without stepping on some toes and offending some people... It is impossible... Lastly, I stand behind everything I have ever written here or on any website... Taken out of context, yeah, it can be twisted much the way the right wing creep twisted Ms. Sherrod's statements about her initial reactions to trying to help white clients... That was twisted to serve a political point... I don't care about political points... They will win you battles but won't win any wars... They are temporary... What I offer is from my soul and my history... It is of value to anyone who is willing to push aside their egos to score points and has any interest in learning things about race and civil rights that they missed along the way... Too bad that the Tea Party has so overtly filled in where the Klan left off... It's bad for everyone... Bad for America... I can't change that... All I can do is offer my knowledge in the hopes that someone (any one) gets it... Enough said... There won't be a repeat of this testimonial... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jun 11 - 07:51 PM Listen to the WHOLE commentary . The last part was interesting..for MSNBC! GfS Hey Don??..No comment about the 'Nessun Dorma' post?? |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Don Firth Date: 30 Jun 11 - 06:04 PM Sawzaw, much of what you are citing as evidence of Bobert's "racism" are his observations on the way things ARE, whether we like it or not. Some people might be offended by some of the terminology he uses (quotes), but I find it interesting that most of the people who seem to get their noses out of joint over what they perceive as "racism" are white. Examples: I used to sing a song called "Black Girl" (or "In the Pines") that I learned from a Lead Belly record. And I've heard other white singers sing it as well. Some, out of fear if possibly "offending" someone, have castrated the song by changing "black girl" to "little girl." I'm not inclined to do that sort of thing. Within recent years, I've had people come up to me (wearing their PC Police badges) and display various degrees of outrage for singing a "racist" song, telling me at the very least that, as a white man, I have no right to sing that song. ALL of these people were WHITE. I sang this song for Lynn and Rosetta, both young black women, one of whom I worked with for over eight years, and for Harold and Verlon, two black men of my acquaintance, and they told me that they found nothing offensive about the song, nor did they feel that the race of the singer made any difference whatsoever. "By all means, go ahead and sing it," Rosetta told me. "It's a very touching song." Richard Dyer-Bennet was criticized once for singing "John Henry," saying that this was a "black song" and that he, as a white man, had no right to singing it. Dyer-Bennet responded by informing his critic that John Henry was a legendary black man, and that by singing the song, he (Dyer-Bennet) was a narrator telling the story of John Henry—and that the racial or ethnic background of the narrator is irrelevant. I have heard Condoleezza Rice referred to as a "house Negro" (and even as a "house nigger"—and you will note, Sawzaw, that like Bobert, I am quoting, and this says nothing about MY views at all) by blacks themselves, many of whom considered her something of a sell-out. Sawzaw, DO toss your PC Police badge in a drawer and get some perspective on the real world. And instead of dodging the issue by going off on ad hominem attacks, try sticking to the point. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jun 11 - 01:58 PM Bobert: "See???" What is this?..blind leading the blind??..OR.. ' Take the beam out of your own eye, before trying to remove the splinter, out of your brother's'....(You recognize that don't you?).. Absolutely no offense intended! Here, re-read this and consider it deeper..... From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jun 11 - 03:21 AM Oh, and just a thought, being as the tone is who is a bigger 'racist', "One man's ceiling is another man's floor! Love for your fellow man is really quite color-blind. The degree in what level you're at, may have something to do with your 'peer environment'...If that it part of the problem, make adjustments, and move forward..taking whatever wasn't 'love for your fellow man', and just throw it away....make the correction, and thank each other for pointing that out, for each other, because it might be better to be a racist, who corrected, than stuck with denial, and arguing about it!!...besides, it is limiting as to gaining higher intelligence!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 30 Jun 11 - 12:30 PM Ho Hum="anything new is the enemy that must be dispatched" You are welcome to present some facts cherry picked or not if you can back them up. I find Obama's words on racism uplifting. I find Bobert's disturbing and depressing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 30 Jun 11 - 08:07 AM See??? More cherry picking by our resident screwball... Ho hum... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jun 11 - 04:42 AM Don, Allow me to re-phrase: Oh, and Don, I still want to ask you a couple questions about your opinion on Jackie's performance of 'Nessun Dorma'. One question, would be, Do you think Puccini would disapprove or be offended, of her, or a female vocalist performing it...even after hearing that performance? Same question to you....I have written some pieces that a friend suggested the same, and I've considered it because I write for both male and female vocalists...just that some were suggested to be sung by the other, than which it was originally created...but I wanted to know YOUR opinion. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jun 11 - 03:21 AM Oh, and just a thought, being as the tone is who is a bigger 'racist', "One man's ceiling is another man's floor! Love for your fellow man is really quite color-blind. The degree in what level you're at, may have something to do with your 'peer environment'...If that it part of the problem, make adjustments, and move forward..taking whatever wasn't 'love for your fellow man', and just throw it away....make the correction, and thank each other for pointing that out, for each other, because it might be better to be a racist, who corrected, than stuck with denial, and arguing about it!!...besides, it is limiting as to gaining higher intelligence!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 30 Jun 11 - 03:11 AM Sorry, I got the 'linky' working.....UI was going to correct it sooner.. Meanwhile, back at the ranch.................... GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 30 Jun 11 - 12:30 AM In true Bobert style he claims someone else's "mind closed down a long time ago and so he is stuck with a Value system that cannot be changed no matter the circumstance... In other words, he is a reactionary meaning that anything new is the enemy that must be dispatched..." when it applies exactly to him. When has Bobert put forth any proposal on how people can come together and get along peacefully? Is that in his value system? Any solutions to racism? Are racist statements in my value system? Is racism in my value system? You are welcome to point it out. I agree with the guy that said" I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy. For some, nagging questions remain. Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely - just as I'm sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests, or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed. But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren't simply controversial. They weren't simply a religious leader's effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country - a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America; a view that sees the conflicts in the Middle East as rooted primarily in the actions of stalwart allies like Israel, instead of emanating from the perverse and hateful ideologies of radical Islam....." Notice where it says "a profoundly distorted view of this country a view that sees white racism as endemic" Is that my view or Bobert's view? Amen Mr. Obama. People who keep making everything into a racial issue are the racists and bigots. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 29 Jun 11 - 11:10 PM http://www.2012theawakening.com/?p=1459 Oh, and Don, I still want to ask you a couple questions about your opinion on Jackie's performance of 'Nessun Dorma'. One question, would be, Do you think Puccini would disapprove or be offended, of her, or a female vocalist performing it...even after hearing that performance? Same question to you....I have written some pieces that a friend suggested the same, and I've considered it..but I wanted to know YOUR opinion. GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 29 Jun 11 - 11:09 PM "Go back and find the posts where Bobert said these things and link to them, or note the date and time when he is alleged (by you) to have said them, so that we can go to them and read them ourselves." I already have but here it is again: Subject: RE: Minority Ignorance From: Bobert - PM Date: 17 Feb 03 - 05:40 PM First of all, I do find the term Negro offensive and patronizing. With that said, I too am concerned about the continued variance on educational and emplyment between blacks and whites. I believe a national discussion on "race" is long overdue and America very much needs to not dance around *slavery*. Slavery still haunts our society some 140 years after the Emancipation Procamation. We also need to refocus resources that will provide hope to the inner city population, black and white. We are not doing a very good job on the. I remember when the "summer jobs" program was funded somewhat adaqutely and it had a level of success. We also need to spend oney on a PR program that offers some alternatives to the "cool" to be either *less cool* or *more cool* depending of ones defination. I think that people who feel disenfranchised are not going to walk the extra mile for acceptance. I'm not say that some won't but the most won't. Unfortuately, we're not going to move on creating a more hopeful society under the current administration. Not that the last one was all that great, but it was way beyond the current administration. Bobert From: Bobert - PM Date: 20 Feb 05 - 09:12 PM I don't consider Condi a "token Negro" but very much a "house Negro" I consider Condi squarely in the "house Negro" category. No racism here [writes himself a pass]... Just fact [another Bobert "fact"]... Condi Rice would be no safer in some of the nieghborhoods I know down in D.C. than Bush, Boss Hog or George Wallace, fir that matter... [does this mean the people in those areas are violent racists?] Bobert From: Bobert - PM Date: 22 Feb 05 - 08:28 AM In a world dominiated by *white guys* it's highly unlikely that a person of color will ever rise to power. Whitey [a pejorative] jus' has the deck stacked against that ever occuring. Oh sure, he'll promote lots of folks to the position of "House Negro" but you can be sure that these folks won't get any higher than that position, Condi being Exhibit A... Bobert From: Bobert - PM Date: 22 Feb 05 - 06:58 PM First of all, Dougie, I know my way around a dojo, so neither House Negro Condi of House Negro Colin scare me in the slightest. If either or both of 'um make a move toward me you'll be helping them up off the floor.[physical threat] No brag. Just fact. Secondly, if they were standing right here, right now in front of me, yeah, I'd confront 'um. They are House Negros. Study a little "History of the South". I took it in college. And that was in Richmond, Va., the capitol of the Confederacy. C & C are very much House Negros in that they do the massa's bidding... They are not folks in power but probably less powerful than the average guy on the street since they have both sold out to whitey [a pejorative]... That's what House Negros do... Sell out... Problem I have with Clarence Thomas isn't that he's trying to get along but with whom... His decisions are not world view decisions... They are, excuse me, "Uncle Tom" decisons... He is, IMO, what was once know as a "Porch (house) Negro" Well danged, pdc, shes a lot easier on the eyes than the other porch negro, Colin Princeton wordnet: whitey, honky, honkey, honkie ((slang) offensive names for a White man) If you are refering to these: "Is you their black-haired answer-mammy who be smart? Does they like how you shine their shoes, Condoleezza? Or the way you wash and park the whitey’s cars?" "Blacks and Hispanics are 'too busy eating watermelons and tacos' to learn how to read and write." "Kiss A Nigger Good Morning." I did not attibute them to Bobert. I merely asked him to tell us if they were left or right wing racist statements. Of course anyone with a modicum of computer savvy can go to Google and put the phrase in quotation marks and usually find out where a quote came from. Not always true with mudcat content but sometimes it works. And while you are Googling up who said what, find out where I have ever issued a racist remark or called Bobert ignorant. I have always said we should drop all references to race so we can put racism behind us. I have always said we need to find thing we agree on so we can have a return to civility. I have always treated Bobert with respect for his view points unless he is claiming (projecting) hateful racist viewpoints on others. Bobert is not an evil person. He thinks he is doing something good and he has a lot of zeal but it is misguided. He promotes the very thing he claims to hate, racism and he cannot detect a fact from propaganda. Nor can he back up anything the asserts. He just makes a wicked assertion. refuses to back it up, attacks anyone that dares to ask him to back up what he says and moves on to the next assertion. The most amusing thing is he does exactly what he is accusing other people of doing but he grants himself the right to do so. Note that in Feb 03 Bobert makes a great humanitarian speech about how racism is wrong but by Feb 05 he is rolling in it like a hog in mud. |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jun 11 - 10:52 PM Okay, Sawz, the ball's in your court. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity Date: 29 Jun 11 - 10:45 PM Jeez!! GfS |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 29 Jun 11 - 10:15 PM Thank you, Don... I have repeatedly asked Sawz to keep things in context... That is exactly why I felt that if he would run off a copy of all of my statements regarding race and take them to a real college professor who teaches "race studies" that maybe, just maybe, Sawz would actually learn what I am talking about... Hey, Bill Clinton tried to get tghis conversation started back in '96 and America wasn't up to it... With our history and our here-and-now we owe it to ourselves to have this conversation... But I am preaching to the choir with you, Don, because you are fully aware of what I am talking about here... Sawz??? No so... He is clueless... The problem with Sawz is that his mind closed down a long time ago and so he is stuck with a Value system that cannot be changed no matter the circumstance... In other words, he is a reactionary meaning that anything new is the enemy that must be dispatched... When I said that it is "sad" I meant it from the depths of my heart... It is sad when ever people kick their lives into nuetral, accept everything that think they know as the "truth" and are unwilling to learn new stuff... Paul Simon got it right in "Sounds of Silence" when he wrote "Sealed dead in my armor, I touch no one and no one touches me, I am a rock, I am an island"... Very sad... Will Sawz take you up on your proposal, Don??? No, he won't... He is an "Ah-hah-gotcha" ballgamer and my body of work here (and elsewhere) regarding race doesn't play into his ballgame and even if he were to put together my entire body of work he has so marginalized himself that no one would read it... That's his problem... Not mine... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Don Firth Date: 29 Jun 11 - 09:48 PM Sawzaw, I have not followed all of this thread. It's getting more and more tedious, and my hip-waders are being repaired. But as a historical thing, I've been on Mudcat since late 1999, and Bobert arrived here about two years later. I've read a lot of his posts. He has a colorful way of expressing himself. But I think I know him well enough to know that he is, in no way, shape, or form, a racist. In fact, he characteristically shows care and concerned for all people regardless of race or circumstances. But he does not suffer fools gladly. Nor, for that matter, do I. Now, you often do not answer questions he puts to you (you keep accusing him of the same thing, so that's a wash), but you DO have a history of being very insulting to those who have the temerity to disagree with you. AND of trying to divert a discussion that you find a bit uncomfortable by throwing accusations. So I put your own question back to YOU:"Does A real intellectual person make personal attacks instead of supporting their assertions with any facts.[?]" I must confess, I have not read all of Bobert's posts. Nor do I generally read yours, because by now, I already know pretty much where you are coming from and what you are going to say—and, for that matter, where you got what you say. But as one who has been accused often of being things I'm not or believing things I don't by people such as you (those who, when backed into a corner without a good answer, pull out the red herrings and start firing accusations), I am asking you to provide solid evidence for your accusations. Go back and find the posts where Bobert said these things and link to them, or note the date and time when he is alleged (by you) to have said them, so that we can go to them and read them ourselves—and if he actually DID say what you say he did, we can read the context within which he said them (that can make a huge difference) and determine for ourselves whether YOU are telling the truth or if you are following your frequent practice of dodging an issue by slandering someone else. In short, Sawzaw, put up or shut up! Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Bobert Date: 29 Jun 11 - 08:42 PM Hey, GfinS... My computer still don't want to play any music but keep firin' my way... I'll get a teenager to fix it soon enough and then go back and enjoy 'um all... B~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: The Tea Party a Terrorist Organization?? From: Sawzaw Date: 29 Jun 11 - 08:18 PM "You may want to see a doctor, or apply for a disability pension." Or stand up for the truth. Bigot: a person who is intolerant of any ideas other than his or her own, esp on religion, politics, or race. Now please show me where Bobert has shown any understanding or tolerance toward anyone who has a different opinion? He calls them ignorant, mentally ill, evil, they don't understand what he said, liars. Does A real intellectual person make personal attacks instead of supporting their assertions with any facts. I understand Bobert's position. He is a product of his environment. He can have any opinion he wants. What I object to is his constant false claims about other people's position including mine. He hates him. They want to kill so and so. I can determine such things on my own and I don't need a self righteous racist stoner 'shine guzzler drumming up racist ideas and statements and attaching them to others. Bobert keeps claiming racism is so prevalent and it is getting worse etc. yet he is the one promoting it. If it is getting worse it is because of people like him that can never get it out of their mind. Racism will never die with racists like Bobert perpetuating it. I think he needs a new hobby horse to ride. Something else to make him feel important and better than other people. Something else to feed his ego. Just read right here in this thread how many people have told him he is wrong. And how many have agreed. |