BS: Phrases that don't travel

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 09:39 PM

I'd forgotten the "May I". At school we had to use "May I" but at home things were more relaxed.
I quickly noticed the use of "excuse me" and also the use of "Sir" in America. Here we use "excuse me" for many reasons so that the tone -- as mayomick says -- is everything. It may be a sarcastic comment about being ignored.

Then there's the round-about (?Irish) way of asking for help,
"I'd like to go to Dandenong".
To which the answer should be,
"The Dandenong train leaves from platform 5"
and not,
"Well why don't you, then".
Cheers and thank you for having me here, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 08:28 PM

In the West, the excuse me and please were standard when talking to strangers or asking them for something.
Perhaps a hangover from the days when impoliteness was met with a .45 slug.

We were taught to use may when making a request, can (see Becca, above) was considered incorrect. That seems to have changed.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 02:04 PM

When I worked putting shoes on small people, we offered the newly shod a balloon filled from a pump by the desk. Interesting exchange one day:
    Small boy: "I want a balloon"
    Mother: What do we say when we ask for something"
    Small boy: "Gimmee!"

He was too young to actually whup for it, but his mom was embarrased, and I think he got some tutoring.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 01:48 PM

In the Midwest, I think it's usual to say "excuse me" if you need to address a stranger for any reason, especially if the stranger is paying attention to something else when you approach them.

For practical reasons, you've got to say or do something to get their attention before you begin stating your request. Otherwise, you might be in the middle of your sentence by the time they realize you're talking to them, and they won't have been listening, so you'll have to repeat.

You don't need to say "excuse me" if the person is obviously waiting for you to begin a transaction—say, the ticket seller at a theater.

The whole topic of politeness/etiquette deserves its own thread. I think I'll start one. Give me a few minutes to compose my first message, then look for it. (Please!)

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Michael
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 12:46 PM

Don't know what happened to the above, formatting and words gone walkabout.

The last line should read:
"Can I have a drink?"
"I think you have forgotten something."
"Can I have a drink and a chocolate biscuit?"

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Michael
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 12:36 PM

Joybell wrote:

As children we were trained to say "please" before we got anything. As in -- "Can I have an apple?" "What do you say?" "Please"

One of ours "Can I have a drink?" "Can I have a drink?" 2

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: mayomick
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 10:07 AM

They have different standards of courtesy in the USA so I could understand that assistants might feel confused to hear the "please" at the end of a request in a shop there.

It can be a bit of a mine field . I remember two or three years ago asking a group of subway workers the direction to the platform I needed in the New York subway. I called over to them in the way I would have done in the UK or in Ireland "Which way to the A train?"
One of them called me over and said . It is polite when you're asking for directions to say , "Excuse me, would you tell me the direction to the A train."

In England or Ireland ,insisting on the "excuse me" would be ok ,but considered a bit over-formal. The tone of voice is more important than what you're say . The Australians have the tone thing down to a fine art .

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Becca72
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 10:06 AM

CrazyEddie,

Same in my neck of the woods. The question "Can I have an apple?" would have been met with "I don't know, CAN you?"

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 09:47 AM

I don't see why saying "please" would confuse anyone. Unless they thought you said "cheese."

Brits often say "cheers" meaning "thank you." That might not be understood in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: GUEST,CrazyEddie
Date: 15 Sep 10 - 09:30 AM

Joybell, you were lucky.
If we said "Can I have an apple please?" the standard reply was
"'Can I?' is a question for a Doctor"
Our dad insisted that "Can I?" meant "Am I capable of?"
To request something, we had to say "May I"

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 07:51 PM

We don't use "regular" for coffee here in Aus. Neither :-) do we use "sunny-side up" nor "over easy" -- for eggs.
I use quite a few colourful American phrases just because I like them and True-Love uses many Auzzie ones.
One big difference I noted in the U.S. was the fact that using "please" at the end of my order confused people. Thank you when you got your food was usual.
I'm not suggesting that Americans are any less polite. In fact, if anything, I found them more courteous.   
As children we were trained to say "please" before we got anything. As in --
"Can I have an apple?"
"What do you say?"
"Please"
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 14 Sep 10 - 01:06 AM

'Regular' is one of those weasel Transatlantic-difference words on which we had a thread not long since. To US-ers, it means what we UK-ers would mean by 'normal' or 'ordinary':   'a regular guy', to Americans, means someone who fits in to society in non-eccentric fashion, but to us would mean [or ought to mean if we are consistent] one who is punctual, and unvarying in his habits [or, in a specialist medical sense used in laxative advertising, does not suffer from constipation!].

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 10:08 PM

I never trust phrases like 'regular'. I always spell out exactly how I want coffee or whether I want a BBQ sandwich covered with ugh cole slaw. Regional idiosyncrasies are just too scary...and I do NOT want onions on my hamburger.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: frogprince
Date: 13 Sep 10 - 06:07 PM

Until a few years ago, I had never known "regular" coffee to mean anything except coffee that wasn't decaffeinated. Then I ordered coffee on Cape Cod, decaf for myself and "regular" for my wife; she takes coffee black or with milk, never with sugar. As some of you will know, her coffee came with cream and sugar. What constitutes "regular" coffee where YOU live?

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 06:08 PM

Thanks, Michael and Sandra. Lots of English expressions were still current in Melbourne when I was growing up. There were more Cornish people in Victoria, Aus. in the 1850s than there were in Cornwall.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 10:06 AM

"Neither he is" might be something those mexicans say!

sandra (who lives north of the border)

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 03:06 AM

"Neither he is" &c used here in UK likewise, just as Joybell describes.

"Rhubarb" here is thought of as the word actors say over and over to give impression of background chat going on behind the main action/dialogue. Could the usage Q describes two or three posts back derive from this, in the sense of a loud hubbub in which the individual words are not all identifiable? [Note also similarity of words 'hubbub' & 'rhubarb', at that.]

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Joybell
Date: 12 Sep 10 - 02:26 AM

Jim -- I used it when we passed the spot where an old man usually waved to us from his porch. He wasn't there and my American True-Love said,
"The man who waves isn't there today"
To which I said,
"Neither he is".

Australians of my age also use
"Neither it is/was" to affirm a negative statement.
"Neither I do/she does."
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 08:24 PM

Cut the last rhubarb of the season today. Reminded me of the word 'rhubarb' being used to describe a heated argument in sports, esp. baseball. Don't suppose it was ever used in that sense in UK.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Sep 10 - 05:53 AM

http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-jum2.htm

"The phrase Jumping Jehoshaphat is first recorded from Mayne Reid's Headless Horseman of 1866, but is probably older." from above link.

I thought I remembered it as a favourite expletive of Yosemite Sam, but can find no proof.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 10:21 PM

OK, how would one use the expression "neither he is"? I assume it's Australian because I've never heard it here in the US.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 08:03 PM

Chips penetrating U.S., been in Canada for a while- French fries is usually just fries, but chips heard more and more.

Of course chips are also those round plastic counters (once pottery or china) used a wagers in poker, etc.
He cashed in his chips means he kicked the bucket, is touching wood (uncommon)- (died).

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Joybell
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 06:16 PM

True-Love and I are bi-lingual ;-) American to Australian and back. With a bit of British thrown in. After over 30 years together we both use a mixture of expressions. "Train station" in place of just station. "Pitcher" as often as "jug". "Blimey Mate" "if I had my druthers". I remember when I first used, "neither he is" and True-Love fell about laughing. He thought it so quaint. I hear "rs" where there aren't any and don't sound them when they are there.
It's surprising how different the same basic language can be both in expression and in the way it sounds.
Cheers, Joy

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 04:13 PM

I thought chips were known as french fries in the States, and crisps were known as chips.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Becca72
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 10:58 AM

Never heard that expression before, Mayo.
Here in the US chips are crisps, not french fries.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: mayomick
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 10:49 AM

Terrier's post about the chippie reminded me of the expression "you've had your chips" . Is it used in the US as over here to mean roughly "you're all washed-up , hard luck" ? I'm not sure whether the phrase comes from gambling or from the eating of chips (french fries).

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: s&r
Date: 10 Sep 10 - 08:30 AM

I heard on Radio 4 "'fess up"

and Brag on is new to me

Stu NW UK

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: GUEST,Bert
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 07:06 PM

I'm too lazy to go back and find the original posts but here's some comments anyway.

"Me arse is making shirt buttons" refers to the style of fart that goes "Pip pip pip pip"

We call an ATM, Auntie Em.

Here the strip between the street and the sidewalk is known as the "Hell Strip" 'cos it is so difficult to maintain.

Fucking A is short for Fucking arseholes.

As for English REAL money...

She'll shag for a Tanner,
she'll shag for a Bob
it only depends on
the size of your knob.

Bob's your Uncle has often degenerated to Bob's your flippin'

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: terrier
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 03:55 PM

In Wigan (UK) I was visiting the local 'chippie' (fish and chip shop) to get some lunch and a customer ordered "pie and chips and a dollop of pea wet"
In Bolton (UK)I found a new word for a certain type of bread rolls, they were referred to as 'tits'.
The first time I asked a passer by directions to a place in Rochdale, he kept mentioning what sounded like 'rorborts'. At first I thought he meant traffic islands, roundabouts, but then realised he was meaning 'traffic lights'.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 08:47 AM

I spent a fair part of my childhood in Watchet in Somerset where the dialect had a detectable difference from Bristolese. Some vowel sounds were definately pronounced as a slur between two sounds. Bist would sound more like bay-ist, while still just being classed as a single vowel.

Some other words were different.

Fred Wedlock's problem with the caravan would become something like,
"Thee's got theick wur thee cassan backun assun?"

All the old character who spoke this lingo have gone now as far as I know.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 09 Sep 10 - 06:49 AM

>Glad to learn from Guest,PATSY, above, that "thee bist" for "you are", which my late first wife used to quote as previous generation talk for "you are" in the Forest of Dean area of Gloucestershire on the borders of Wales, where she was born in 1935, is still apparently current in not-too-far-distant Bristol. That same old neighbour who used it in her childhood would also say "Old Butt" or "Old Buttie" as a vocative where others would probably say "Mate".

~Michael~ <

I know the Forest of Dean it is a lovely place and have had many a family picnic. It is not far to travel out of Bristol for the change of scenery and it is especially good in the Autumn.

She was right, 'Thee bist' etc. was from a previous generation of Bristolians. Especially in town areas like Old Market, St. Phillips Marsh, , Newfoundland Road, Bedminster etc. Where the old Bristol families remain it can still be heard but less though now, with new generations setting up home elsewhere and people from other areas moving here you don't hear the broad dialect as it was. Sometimes back then my mother accused me of becoming a little Bedminsterite if I came out with an expression that was just a bit too Bristoleaze. I don't know why but in the 60's it became something to be ashamed of and my mother even sent me to elocution lessons which was great but if I lost my temper or got a little bit tipsy out it would come! A bit like a WestCountry Eliza Doolittle I suppose!
Farming people in the rural parts such as Winterbourne have more of a wurzely dialect for example when talking about 'Our mother' they would say 'R Ma' rather than 'Muh.' As a Bristolian you can usually tell what part of Bristol someone hails from just by the slight differences of dialect. Now though it is mostly used in light heartedness and in an affectionate nod to Bristol culture, both with young and old as well as being a greeting.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 11:43 PM

Here are some local expressions from Minnesota. Some of them are dying out, and only used by old-timers.

Rubber binder = rubber band

Semaphore = traffic light

Dinner = noontime meal
Supper = evening meal
Lunch = between-meal snack (or bedtime snack)

Boulevard = the grass strip between the sidewalk and the street

You're so good to cook. = You're such a good cook.

Do you want to come with? = Do you want to come with me? (or us)

Oh, for cute! = Oh, how cute!
Oh, for dumb! = Oh, how dumb!
etc.

Uff-da! = Oy veh! = How awful!

Ish! = Yuck!

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 11:23 PM

Glad to learn from Guest,PATSY, above, that "thee bist" for "you are", which my late first wife used to quote as previous generation talk for "you are" in the Forest of Dean area of Gloucestershire on the borders of Wales, where she was born in 1935, is still apparently current in not-too-far-distant Bristol. That same old neighbour who used it in her childhood would also say "Old Butt" or "Old Buttie" as a vocative where others would probably say "Mate".

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 10:53 PM

We lived in New Orleans for 3 years, and my Mother was confused when our neighbor asked if she could "carry you somewhere". All it meant was that she was offering a ride in her car.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 10:26 PM

Then there are the local, sometimes very local, US words and phrases:

"He's in eruption"
"Bodacious" is pretty well known, as is "consarned!!"
"fetch up" meaning to arrive at someplace
"fat up": to gain weight
"hifalutin'": beyond your status, such as hifalutin' ideas
"bullyrag": to try to intimidate someone
"forty-rod": cheap whiskey, so called because after a drink you could only walk forty rods (about 50 feet)
"palaver": talk
"rondy": rendezvous, gathering.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 06:04 AM

In Bristol as I am sure is similar in other UK counties we can buy guide phrase books to familiarise visitors and tourists with the local sayings and spellings. In the local shops around here we have t-shirts now which are selling really well with popular Bristoleaze phrases like 'Theym ginorrmous' (They are extremely large) 'Theyze me dapz mind' (I am only wearing casual sneakers, I would love to come if you don't mind my casual dress.

For a laugh I will send the odd Bristolian saying or greeting to my younger son like 'Ow's Bist me ole babby?' or 'Right me Cocker?' who has so much fun explaining it to his Madagascan girlfriend.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: LadyJean
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 12:30 AM

I know about redding up in Western PA, and jaggers, instead of thorns, and slippy for slippery. Redd up and slippy come from Scots dialect. I'm not surprised that gum bands is German. We have plenty of them in this part of the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Sep 10 - 12:25 AM

It was a pansy, or maybe a clematis. Or bougainvillia. One of them botanical things.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 08:21 PM

"Odd thing to say" well, I am just as odd as any of us!

purely in the interest of scholarship, gnu...There is no contest and no prize. I agree that your local version is quite common now. I KNOW how folk songs and folk sayings are processed. Hey...it's a forum where we share ideas & knowledge.

------------------------------------

Ebbie... the Carter lyrics as well as others. We had 3-4 LONG threads debating possible variations, with botanists speculating of type of flower.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: gnu
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 07:53 PM

Bill D... ``...but no one will ever convince me that 'fuckin A' was the origin of any of them.`

Odd thing to say. Dunno why you would say that. A is the first letter in the alphabet... it`s tops. It`s a local saying, as I THOUGHT I explained, which is what this thread is about.

It`s not a contest. If it really is, you win... on accounta I really don`t give two fucks from Tuesday... another local saying.

I`d give your post a fuckin F. And a WTF for good measure. Who shoved a bug up yer arse anyway eh.... who pissed in your coenflakes... does THAT travel...

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 06:59 PM

First verse of Wildwood Flower, Bill?

I sing it:

I will twine 'mid my ringlets of raven black hair
Roses so red and the lily so fair
The myrtle so bright with its emerald hue
And the pale aronatus with eyes of bright blue

Or are you thinking of the ludicrous A.P. Carter lyrics? :)

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Rapparee
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 06:52 PM

Out hyar in The West, I've heard it said that someone was "madder'n a just cut bull."

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Michael
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 05:17 PM

We have slightly different versions:

'It's as noisy as two skeletons riding in a biscuit tin'
or:'It's as noisy as two skeletons shagging in a dustbin'

'She's as mad as a bag of spiders'.
or:'She's as mad as a box of frogs'.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 05:02 PM

gnu... that is one phrase I should have mentioned, as it is one of my pet peeves.

The original was fucking AYE!, (or 'fuckin' aye). I have posted about it before on Mudcat. '

Saying 'A' makes little sense, but 'aye', meaning yes or sure or right is obvious. But, I suspect that there are those who saw the phrase in print, or had no idea where 'aye' came from just flatly mispronounced it.

There are more 'scholarly' theories, and the truth may be a combination of several origins, but no one will ever convince me that 'fuckin A' was the origin of any of them.

If I think, I can come up with other names and phrases that are misheard or mistaken versions of something. (like the confusion over the 1st verse of 'Wildwood Flower' or any of many Mondegreens'0

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: terrier
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 04:58 PM

Some years ago, I remember Telly Savallas being interviewed on UK Radio talking about golf. He stunned the interviewer to silence by saying he'd hit the ball and struck an onlooker on the fanny. Oops!

I guess the nine bob note would be payment for the services of the Irish Tenner (old joke).

I'm just about old enough to remember purchasing goods at the local shop and 'putting it on the slate'. Did that one travel well?

'It's as noisy as two skeletons riding in a biscuit tin' reminds me of the Aussie song 'Rye Buckshearer' that has the line "with a voice like a Billygoat dancing on a tin" :)

Wasn't it Pa Kent who's favourite / favorite saying was 'Jumping Jehosaphat', where did that one come from?

If you ever find yourself in Liverpool (UK) city centre and ask for the hole in the wall, your more likely to be directed to the pub of that name than to an ATM.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Anne Lister
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 04:57 PM

Rapaire, the word "tramp" as used here in the UK is the usual word for a person of no fixed abode as you describe ...but can be used to describe a walk. So there's an old, old response to "I went for a tramp in the woods" with the old chestnut "Why, what did he do to you?"

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 04:51 PM

Hi Becca72,

Thanks for that.

I'm fascinated to learn that you have a similar phrase in your part of the world!

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: gnu
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 04:32 PM

A while back, in a PM, I said to Max, "Fuckin A!", which means, in these here parts, "Fuckin A number one!" or "That's great!" or "Thanks!" or...

His next PM was to the effect of, "Why did you call me a Fuckin Asshole?"

I roared laughing and replied quickly with the explanation.

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Amos
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 04:02 PM

During the worst dust-storm in history in the Depression years (known as Black Sunday), one old timer said that the sudden onset dust-storm was blacker than three midnights in one jug.

That was the same storm that inspired Woody to write the apocalyptic "So Long, It's Been Good to Know You". He was working in a burger stand or something like that the day it hit in the Oklahoma panhandle.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Phrases that don't travel
From: Becca72
Date: 07 Sep 10 - 03:58 PM

Shim,
Around these parts (Northern New England) the phrase is "queer as a 3 dollar bill". Same meaning.