BS: I Hate the Beatles

Subject: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Raptor
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:26 PM

There I've said it

I feel better now!

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Beer
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:31 PM

WoW!! , that takes guts. Of course you mean the kind that happens to crawl in your bed at night that scares the shit out of ya before you kill it. Right??
Ad.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:55 PM

Thats odd, I am just now beginning to appreciate them.

D

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: J-boy
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 10:57 PM

Did you have a hard day's night Raptor?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 11:10 PM

Yesterday I was tired of them.

Now I'm OK.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Beer
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 11:14 PM

That is interesting Don. I grew up during their up rising and loved what they did but they never stuck to me like the folk musicians and at that time the country stars of the 60/70's. They were always there and as time went by I appreciated what they did but not in a hype way. Now for some reason I appreciate what they did more than then. Why?? Hell if I know.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 11:24 PM

And some people don't like ice cream,puppies or long walks on the beach either. Go figure. Thanks for sharing.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 11:27 PM

I looked down my nose at them in the 60s, cos I was a folkie purist and I hated all rock bands! But around about 70 or 71 I began to appreciate them a lot more. However, I've never been majorly interested in them, only ever bought maybe 3 or 4 of their albums, but I like them reasonably well. They did some pretty cool stuff, specially in terms of chording and vocal harmonies.

I always liked George Harrison the best.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 11:29 PM

They were better before Paul died.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: J-boy
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 11:38 PM

There is nothing better than walking your puppy on the beach whilst eating ice cream and singing a Beatles song. I'm not even kidding.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 11:41 PM

I have two original 45s and the first cassette copy of Sgt. Pepper's. My ex and I loved them and the Doors...still do, as do my kids and grandkid and my Rog. Guess we are a Beatles Family and I don't mean VW!:-)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Beer
Date: 03 Jan 11 - 11:53 PM

I still have their first vinyl(Twist and Shout). I remember getting on the school bus and a few girls saying, "Oh! look he has his hair cut just like the Beatles". I didn't have a clue as to what they were talking about until I asked around who were the Beatles. I guess they didn't know that Dad wasn't home to give me a piss pot cut as there were no funds to go to a barber.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:15 AM

Gee, is it time again for another "I Hate the Beatles" thread? I could swear we haven't gone long enough since the last one.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,erbert
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:19 AM

He hates them.. yeah, yeah, yeah....

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Skivee
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:59 AM

I was chatting with Ringo last week, and he says that they were very supportive of Raptor's work in the past; but if he's gonna be so snotty, Ringo and Paul tell him to go piss up a rope.
He went on to say that he was glad John and George were dead so that they didn't have to see this sad turn of events.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 01:10 AM

LOL!!!

Raptor has been cut off. I guess that's the end of that planned giant statue of James T. Kirk that was going to be erected on Raptor's land and used to beam cellphone calls and old Trailer Park Boys episodes all over southern Ontario.

Kind of a shame, really....he should've kept his mouth shut.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Slag
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 01:32 AM

A Day In The Life. Ok, I have to admit, that one was great. The rest, BLECK! ARRGH, YUCK, etc. They were amazing though, how they could all eventually hit harmony, OFF-KEY!

That's funny. The last time I ran into Ringo, he said he was glad for the ride but two of the others were idiots. John was bright but a real AH to work with. Good old Ringo. You've gotta love him.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 02:31 AM

All soft sloppy and mushy. Not rock and roll at all.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 04:09 AM

The Greatest group of all time.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: theleveller
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 04:52 AM

"He went on to say that he was glad John and George were dead"

John and George dead? Oh no, not that old rumour. Have you been playing Revolver backwards again?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 04:59 AM

I loved the Beatles and sometimes I didn't, there were other bands that I liked as much. When I was in my teens the Beatles were just about nearing their end and at that time amongst my friends at school then it was considered a 'safe' choice to like Beatle music rather than the Stones Frank Zappa, The Doors, Jimi Hendrix, Janice Joplin or Pink Floyd etc. But now I am listening again and re-discovering the Beatle albums it is enjoyable for me personally to listen to whole albums that have a beginning, a middle and an end rather than plough through tracks of over large CDs of a new band or singer only to find a couple of tracks of anything worth listening to.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 07:15 AM

hi

Living here in the North West we got the very first TV of "this new group from Liverpool".

I just didn't like them or what they were doing.

However like othersd here I have sort of grown to like them more.

Maybe it's just an age thing....

cheers

Mikel2

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:24 AM

I never cared for them either. Of course, I've never cared for any rock "Musician".Now if I can just find a couple of people who give a shit what I think...

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:38 AM

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:51 AM

When I hear that someone hates everything an artist put out - like the massive number of songs the Beatles recorded - I just have to think that they're trying too hard to tell us how cool and negative they are.

And I think their time would be better spent telling us what they DO like. If anything at all. Or is ALL music rubbish?

For the record I don't like Brittney Spears. But is that revelation worth the time it takes to start a thread to reveal it?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:52 AM

I DID NOT HIT THE SUBMIT BUTTON! HONEST! WTF?

What I was going to say is that I didn't care much for the Beatles during the '60s.. Not "heavy" enough. I only owned one of their albums (Sgt. Pepper's) versus everything by the Stones, Hendrix, Cream, etc. But, after a conversion to folk music relieved me of the need for "heavy" music, I found that the Beatles far more appealing. I still don't include any of their songs in my repetoire, but I'll listen to 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Charmion
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:06 AM

I loved the Beatles when they were new and all the rage because I was young and excited by the excitement. I still love their stuff today because I am middle-aged and excited by their amazing creativity and musicianship.

George is dead? Say it ain't so!

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Becca72
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:12 AM

I have always loved the Beatles even though they were "before my time". Like Little Hawk my favorite is George Harrison.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:20 AM

"I am middle-aged and excited by their amazing creativity and musicianship."

We I am not quite middle aged anymore but the rest of Charmion's quote pretty much covers it. None were/are virtuoso musicians but they sure were good at chord structures, harmonies, and tempos.

Ringo is not Ginger Baker but he is a steady and dependable drummer.
And the same could be said about the rest as well, fill in your comparatives. They were promoted as a band and not as a star with a band which was very unusual in Rock and Roll until that point.

Don

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: jacqui.c
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:40 AM

I also count George Harrison as my favourite. I was a fan when they first started out - had every bit of vinyl they put out until about 1966, when my ex husband sold what I had because we were broke.

Wasn't so keen on some of the later stuff - it was a bit too far out for me.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:41 AM

Now I wonder what people will say about the Monkees?! Please do not throw anything at your screen or me....!!

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:54 AM

"Not rock and roll at all."

Nothing that came after 1960 is.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:01 AM

If all those famous groups only recorded what I like they would all starve.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:07 AM

Just got 'A Hard Day's Night' from the local library last week and watched it 3 times. The thing that struck me was that it was flimed, cut and released in 3 weeks. I was able to run back the dvd to pick up some of the phrases I couldn't understand because of the accents. Once I did I realized it was a VERY funny movie. George Harrison came off as the best actor of the 4 though alot of the script focused on Ringo's manufactered alienation.

In reference to their music one can say they're not to one's taste. But to deny their greatness is simply being stupid. Because of the combination of circumstances what they represented HAD to happen. They changed pop culture, completely. When I think of some of their songs,'Yesterday', Nowhere Man', 'If I needed Someone', 'Here Comes The Sun', I'm Looking Through You', 'In My Life', etc. Any songwriter would be glad to have one or two songs of the aforementioned quality. They ended up with a couple hundred.

Hate them or dismiss them if you want. I'm sure George and John's estates, Paul and Ringo's financial advisors will worry about your opinion all the way to the bank. And history's book will certainly make mention of your post(s) in reference to the Beatles. They're sure to show up in the bibliography.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:13 AM

I hate Jell-o

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:18 AM

THis whole thread is a massive confession of abysmally poor taste.

A

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:19 AM

Well, I loved them... They took the concept of "hook" to a new level... Prior to them, hooks were really rare... I'm not saying they didn't exist... I mean, Link Wray certainly laid one down in "Rumble"... Dwayne Eddy had some nice hooks... Even Buddy Holly snuck a couple in but...

...the Beatle's songs seemed to all have their own hook and I think that raised the bar fir songwriters no matter the style...

As for favorites??? When I listen to post-Beatles recordings, George Harrison's stuff, IMHO, was the most interesting...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:36 AM

suddenly got the urge to shovel off my roof, sit on it and play my guitar. don't think I will stop traffic however

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: MikeL2
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:45 AM

hi Dan

Ain't you too old to be out on the tiles ??????

Happy New Year

MikeL2

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 10:58 AM

They were my favorite, from a social perspective, as they influenced (or kick started) a lot of social change, especially in the entertainment industry.

From a musical perspective, they are just ok, to my liking.

George's voice matured well, and I really enjoy his version of Dylan's Absolutely Sweet Marie. Unfortunately, John never really reached his musical peak. I mostly find Paul annoying,(on his own, that is). And, there is Ringo, I dunno about him.

When you have such a dominant influence, in this case music, it sometimes overshadows others. I often wonder what other musical acts would have shined brighter if the Beetles never emerged, and would it have changed the evolution of music?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Beer
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 11:13 AM

Well Raptor has done well in attracting many responses but I don't think he hates the "Beatles". He may dislike some of their songs, but "Hate"! to strong a word for anyone who like music.
ad.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 11:15 AM

Now I wonder what people will say about the Monkees?!

Well, The Monkees did have the good taste to hire Jimi Hendrix as opening act for their 1967 summer tour. From what I understand, he was hired at the band's insistence even though they knew he probably wouldn't appeal to many Monkees fans. They just thought he was a phenomenal musician and wanted to hang out with him.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 11:28 AM

Don't go going off on the monkeees or Chongo will kick your ass

Happy New Year to you to Mike

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 11:39 AM

I don't care for them either. When it comes to rock bands I usually
only like one song per band. The only rock band that I really love is
Runrig. They haven't been the same since Donnie retired, but I still
love their work.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 11:48 AM

Rock and roll was dead by 1962, overcome in a wave of mush. The Beatles didn't ruin rock and roll, they retrieved it from the slag heap, dusted it off, and gave it a second chance.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: frogprince
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:00 PM

When I caught the bus to leave for my hitch in the Navy, my oldest nephew (about 4) was standing on the steps of an old hotel singing "I Wanna Hold Your Hand", which was on the air incessantly at the time. I thought it, and they, were totally over rated crap; never would have believed that by a few years later I would really like a lot of their material. Still can't believe that people voluntarily sat and listened to things like "I Am The Walrus".

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:07 PM

I'm with you, Raptor.

Here's what their voices remind me of:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaw6XzA_UuE&feature=related

(Sorry, the clickifier didn't seem to be working for this.)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: josepp
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:16 PM

We have rap, Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, Katy Perry, Eminem, Kanye West and Taylor Swift taking over the music industry with crap and we could toss Susan Boyle to this unholy mix (you Brits have to take your lumps too). The pinnacle of mediocrity and when I mention them, people go "WHO????"

But you all want to bitch about a band that broke up 40 goddamn years ago. I mean, get with it, people! The Beatles are done, gone, over. At their worst they were 1000 times better than any of the people I just mentioned but you don't even know who these people are that are ruinung the music industry. You want to bitch about a band from the 60s.

I'd be happy to see a band today that could be called anything remotely as good as the Beatles. Stop worrying about yesterday, get your heads out of the sand and tell me what we're going to do about the abysmal mediocrity that's poised to take all the grammys this year. Kanye West already has 14. FOURTEEN!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Charmion
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 12:44 PM

Kanye who?

The thing about the Beatles is that everyone has heard of them, and heard them.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 01:21 PM

You should listen to the sessions for their first album. The vocals are always spot on whereas their playing transforms from truly awful to very tight!!

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 01:49 PM

A Hawk is an Eagle among Crows.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 01:52 PM

they were great... my favorite was Moe Howard,
or was he with the Stooges ?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: kendall
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 01:57 PM

Shemp was funnier.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 02:14 PM

Music is in the ear of the listener and in the wallet of the performer.

That being said, I like some of their tunes and find others absolute assinine garbage. We all live in a... aggghhhh!

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 02:37 PM

They did sing a song about blackbirds with injured wings....a forerunner?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: andrew e
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 03:18 PM

Some say hate and love are very close emotions!

The Beatles had some great songs. Very varied, good harmonies, quite amazing really that such a lot could come from four guys, with a bit of help from George Martin.
We sing some of their songs in the A Cappella choirs I direct.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 03:43 PM

Raptor is just stirring up some shit, people! I know the guy. ;-) Don't take him so seriously.

Here's something to consider. Bob Dylan loved the Beatles in the early days. He was very impressed by their vocal harmonies, their chording, and their excellence as a performing band. They were a VERY good band, due to their lengthy, grueling apprenticeship in Hamburg, Germany.

The Beatles loved Bob Dylan. They were very impressed by his lyrical skills, his visceral intensity, and the depth of ideas he was presenting in his songs.

Dylan and the Beatles were each profoundly influenced by the other. Harrison and Lennon were huge Dylan fans. McCartney was recently asked who had impressed him most in the field of music. He thought for a moment and said, "Bob Dylan".

So...if you like either Dylan or the Beatles, that might give you pause for reflection. If, however, you like neither of them, it won't matter, will it? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 04:01 PM

Dylan also liked a lot of other musicians, (such as Johnny Cash).
Using your reasoning,as I understand it, does it follow that one should like the music of everyone Dylan liked (musically or otherwise)? Seems like a bit of a s t r e t c h, IMO.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 05:11 PM

I'm not saying you have to like any of it.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 05:37 PM

We all have our likes and dislikes, an as such we must respect our personal tastes (errm ... that could be a can of worms so I better say artistic personal tastes)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Raptor
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:37 PM

I love George H's stuff especialy as a wilbery but I think that the beatles were the new kids on the block of the 60's and seventies, just watch live footage and compare thier audience with that of a justin beiber audience a bunch of screaming little girls who are more concerned with screaming than the music.
I was and still am a stones fan.

I know none of you give a shit what I like or don't (nor should you) but the sattlelight radio is playing the crap out of the Beatles and Paul songs and I find myself wishing the two serviving beatles were the ones that were dead. John and George had some great music.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:43 PM

The difference is that the Beatles were, ahhhhhh, musicians and Justin Birdpoo ain't...

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:48 PM

I also was and still am a Stones fan. To me, the Beatles had "candy assed" music in comparison. But, I would never wish anyone dead, even my enemies.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:50 PM

I have never heard Justin Beiber sing. I must be listening to the right radio stations.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:55 PM

My only regret is I did not keep the original "dead baby" album ... my gosh the original that wasn't covered up is worth quite a bit of bucks ... Like anything else we throw away things that someday we wish we didn't right. What was the title of that album anyway, I long forgot

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Raptor
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:56 PM

She loves you yeah yeah yeah???????????

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 08:56 PM

Which is another example of the "Americans are stupid" thread

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: olddude
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:27 PM

somebody's got to remember the name of that album, the butcher one with the babies everywhere ... can't remember the title. It was very gross and they covered it up with something less offensive since the big retailers would not allow it past the first or second week of release (why it is such big bucks today) I had one !!! threw it away years ago since the record was all scratched up

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:34 PM

Yeah, Ed T, but at least the Beatles wrote their own stuff while the Stones spent alot of their energy stealin' ol blues guys music and callin' it their own... Hey, don't get me wrong... I like the Stones... No, make that I loved the Stones but they sho nuff stole alot of shit...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:45 PM

Well, as to stealing, are the Beetles not guilty of being influenced, (a polite, legal way of saying borrowing) from quite a few other musical folks (they even admit it in interviews)...and don't I recall George even get caught, doing it (My Sweet Lord)? There are very few originals in this business, under v close scrutiny, that is.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 09:53 PM

How original were the Beatles?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: mousethief
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 11:06 PM

Yesterday and Today.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 11:25 PM

Thanks for that, EdT.

These days, I find myself singing that one...I'm fixing a hole where the rain gets in, to keep my mind from wondering, where it will go..woo-woo-woo-woo-woo

LOL!

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:21 AM

The Stones were a lot grittier than the Beatles, no doubt about it. They also wrote some wonderful songs.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the Stones, the Beatles, Dylan or anybody else building an early career by absorbing all kinds of pretty obvious influences from prior recordings by earlier musicians. That's just NORMAL, for gosh sakes! Virtually everyone in music does it, we all were inspired by someone when we were young and wanted to do music like they did, and it happens naturally, and it should happen. It's the normal process of learning music, and one eventually comes up with one's own unique sound by first learning the chops of more experienced players who have gone before.

The only time people bitch about it is when the one who's doing it becomes very successful and very famous. Otherwise, they couldn't care less.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:29 AM

Slag: "A Day In The Life. Ok, I have to admit, that one was great. The rest, BLECK! ARRGH, YUCK,...."

For what its worth to anyone out there, 'A Day In The Life' and 'Help' have the exact same chord changes! Try it. (Start in 'G')

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: J-boy
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:44 AM

Love them. Hate them. Do as you wish but either way Beatles songs will still be sung and listened to long after they and all of us have turned to dust. Folk music perhaps?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: J-boy
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:51 AM

Shit. Now I've done it.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:18 AM

Yeah, a few of the Beatles' songs will probably become folk music. Why not?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: J-boy
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:31 AM

Why not indeed LH? But even a newbie Mudcatter like myself sees the "What is folk music?" threads and quickly becomes discouraged.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Slag
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:38 AM

Ggfs, a lot of music have that progression. A Day In the Life has a rush, an alternate consciouness and replete with flashbacks, all in the key of G. At the time I thought it was quite creative and I would argue, at the time, it was. I bought the first Who album, at least, I think it was: Happy Jack.

Dylan, Doors, Blues were more to my taste in those days, Cream. I lived in Pacifica CA (16 miles S. of SF) in '67 and did the whole Hashberry scene. Often made it to the Fillmore and the Avalon Ballroom. Man, was I a lost soul but I loved much of the music of that period. It truly was a revolution and evolution. Many things musical were re-defined and insturmentation experimentation boomed. It was a heady time, you might say.

LH, uh, so what kind of "hawk" are you? Buteo, accipiter, falconae? You DO know you are a member of the (say it isn't so)Raptor family? sorry Rap;).

PS I LIKE the Monkeys' work, for the most part (the music, that is).

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:38 AM

Little Hawk..Does this one qualify??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:57 AM

I think it's a pretty neat song, GfS. It might qualify. Great vocal harmony in that song and a neat arrangement. Lennon may actually have nicked the basic tune and chord sequence off Bob Dylan's song "Fourth Time Around", though some people say Dylan wrote "Fourth Time Around" as a parody of "Norwegian Wood".

From wickipedia:

Lennon acknowledged being strongly influenced by Bob Dylan during this time period, and the rather opaque lyrics of "Norwegian Wood" seem to reflect this. It is commonly speculated that Dylan responded with "4th Time Around", a song with a similar melody, subject matter and lyrical delivery. Rock journalists and ostensibly even Lennon himself felt it to be a rather pointed parody of "Wood" (some even went as far as to think the song's closing line—"And I, I never took much/I never asked for your crutch/Now don't ask for mine"—was directed toward Lennon), though Lennon later told his biographer that he considered Dylan's effort to be more a playful homage. Lennon's paranoia in this matter[10] is wholly expected if one takes it as fact that Dylan played "4th Time Around" to The Beatles prior to "Norwegian Wood", as explained by Dylan to Al Kooper.[11]

They'e both interesting songs. The Beatles song is more lush and tuneful sounding, while Dylan's song is more stark, visceral, and a lot more edgy. Norwegian Wood was released on record in 1965, I think, and "Fourth Time Around" in 1966, but it's not certain which song was written first.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 05:31 AM

The thing that peeved me with the Rock or Pop stars of that particular time was the false glitz of it all with the Lennons, Jaggers, Ferrys and Bowies etc. parading around at parties completely remote from the real world unless making the odd appearance with chat show hosts i.e. Michael Parkinson allowing us to take a bit of a glimpse. I didn't feel that I could relate to any of them at all. Not really.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Will Fly
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 06:18 AM

Popular music always travels in waves of convention killed by breakthrough becoming convention killed by breakthrough.

Those of old enough to recall the times will remember the 'shock and awe' of early Elvis in the mid '50s and those that followed. That music, once taken over by the A&R men and the industry, because mushy. Then the freshness and drive of the first Beatles singles hit the scene - "Please Please Me" and "Love Me Do" - and things started to sound fresh again. Whatever Macca may say now about his greatest influence, it was very obvious that the band owed a huge early debt to Motown - "Chains" (the Cookies) - "Please Mr. Postman" (the Marvelettes) - "Anna" (Arthur Alexander) - and also to Chuck Berry and Buddy Holly.

Then, after a suitable period, along came punk...

And, by the way, one of the first singers to be screamed at was Frank Sinatra back in the '40s, followed by Johnny Ray.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 06:53 AM

As to screaming ~~ think of the Rudolf Valentino phenomenon in the mid-20s. He was admittedly a film star not a singer: but the 'screaming·at·your·idol' convention was well established when Sinatra inherited it in 1940.

What I did like about the Beatles is that, despite their name, melody took precedence with them over rhythm to a far greater extent than with many of their contemps. The baleful influence of rock, it always seems to me, is that, though there are some good tunes among all the dross [& I am merely adapting Theodore Sturgeon's indispensable Law Of Science Fiction, "90% of sf is crap because 90% of everything is crap" rather than venturing a critical judgement], it was when the beat, the riff, that constant ostinato rhythm took priority over the melody, with Presley & Haley & from then on in ~~ that was the true "day the music died".

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Dani
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 07:12 AM

OH Thank GOD someone's said it!

I've always felt like a pariah. Whenever I say it, a hush falls over a group.

Not much different from seeing an artist's work at the National Gallery, and appreciating, or wondering, why it's hanging on a wall there.

I can see why people thought they were good at stuff, and they wrote some great songs. But the PHENOMENON? Just never got it.

Still think some of their songs are way better as covered. To wit, Aerosmith's Come Together: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klvWtrtIRyI

Dani

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 07:31 AM

Take yeah, yeah yeah out of their songs and what is left?

What I like about folk music is that it informs as well as entertains. I've never learned a thing from a Beetles song, or from any other rock or rap song.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Raptor
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 07:39 AM

aparently
I'm not alone

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 08:34 AM

I agree LH, music evolves, and few can claim much originality. It was the point I was trying to make.

Getting back to my earlier statement, IMO, when one assesses the music of the Beatles, it's important to eliminate the social aspect of the band from consideration, and to focus on the music. Few people do that. I'm not saying they were not a great band musically and historically. However, ignoring the influence of others to their music success (before and during their career) is foggy thinking. Considering the bands success (social and musical), it is interesting to look at others who "held their own" on the charts when the beatles were storming the worlds music scene.

What I found interesting in the Aerosmith video is the reference to money in the props. Not sure if it was intentional, but IMO it sums up money's influence in today's music and the main stream "music crowd" today.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 08:35 AM

the White Album on clinical LSD is highly entertaining
Rock on Mother Nature's Son ....

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 08:58 AM

Geeee, how many songs are there out there written around a G progression??? 10 million???

I don't hold that against anyone...

It's how one puts the little twists in them that makes them memorable, or not...

If ya' strip the blues down to the basics, there ain't a whole lotta different songs... I mean, a blues player go anywhere, find the local blues jam and fit right in... Ain't rocket surgery... Folk ballads are even more predictable... And don't even get me started on country music... Talk about formula??? I don't think there are but 3 country songs... Just different words...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 09:23 AM

"I don't think there are but 3 country songs... Just different words..."

Does that include "The Rodeo Song"? What Beatle could come up with such rym'in lyrics...we'll maybe Ringo? OK, since y'all asked, here is my favourite song part:

"Well it's 40 below, and I don't give a fuck, Got a heater in my truck"..(kinda reminds me of gnu, and his new truck)


:)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 09:43 AM

Talking of predictability I have always thought that about Burt Baccarac (not sure of the spelling) although some of the tunes were pretty and easy on the ear there was something so predictable about them and thought that he was a tad overrated, the singers made the songs or perhaps the songs were so simple they were great for any up and coming singer (if you like that kind of thing of course). It would have been interesting to see how the Beatles might have sounded covering some of BB's stuff like Oasis did. It might have sounded awful or possibly better for Paul.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bobert
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:19 PM

Well, Ed, if you take the heater outta the truck you got a blues song;~)

Reminds me of a verse from one of my old songs entitled "Iced In Blues":

Can't find no dry wood
and the Ford won't crank a lick (X2)
It's so cold in here
My clock won't even tick

B~

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 12:47 PM

Of COURSE you're not alone, Raptor!

First of all, there's that wacky little dog who runs around your place in a frenzy all the time.

Then there's the giant blue rabbit who watches TV with you, and you always put a full glass of beer out on the little table for him when the two of you are watching the football games together.

Remember? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:04 PM

Bobert,

Pack a little heater in your pocket, and it has the mak'ins of a Rap truck song (50 cent, at that):

Back seat of the Caddy truck or Tahoe
Back seat of the Benz truck or Expo
Back seat of X5 or Range Rov'
So when I pick you up, you know how this shit go - hoe....

....Beep the air horn, hop in turn the heat on
Pick you up off the streets get your feet warm
She giving sex cause the Lex truck takes unleaded
Big thick thighs, eyes browner than Sahara deserts
Deuce-Deuce, bitches, yeah they caught your eye
And them loud system full of bass and highs
You see that X5 BM
Packed with Puerto Ricans
Bad mommies on the low, just creepin...

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 01:21 PM

Jeez, Kendall, I hope you are only joking...I never had the time or money to get into the personalities of the Beatles, other than John when I got a little older, but
There's some great music written and performed by them. I'd hope you'd give them a listen, at least. I love what the younger folks are doing with their stuff, esp. Jake Shimabukuro on Uke. ( I know it's Harrison, but still a "Beatle."

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: John P
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 03:06 PM

I've always like the Beatles' music. Good melodies, good arrangements, well played. George Harrison was never counted as one of the great lead players, but he was one of my favorites because of his individual voice. He didn't really sound like anyone else. When I first heard Paul's first solo album it was weird -- Beatles songs with a "normal" sounding lead player. Even though his playing was probably technically superior to George's, he didn't have any individuality.

Aside from likes and dislikes, though, I was fascinated to see how pervasive they still are. At a company party a couple of years ago we started a Beatles sing-along and everyone in the room -- from five-year-olds to eighty-somethings -- knew all the songs. This from a band that made their last album 40 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 03:17 PM

Kinda evolving into a `` What is The Beatles`` thread. Could go on forever.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 03:26 PM

I liked and still like much of their material.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 03:34 PM

This just in: Raptor is being besieged with angry phone calls and letters from enraged Beatle's fans all over the place. A flaming 8 foot wood and marshmallow dildo was placed on his lawn last night at 3 AM by persons unknown. The local police have warned that they may not be able to protect him. This could get dangerous.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 03:34 PM

katlaughing,
Thanks for the link. I really enjoyed the music.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 03:38 PM

My pleasure, EdT, thanks.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 04:32 PM

Well, not so much hate but just weary. I grew up in Liverpool when the Beatles were rising. They were everywhere: you couldn't escape the records, the photos, the books, the magazines, the articles, the cardboard cut outs, just about bloody everything. Guys in silly suits with sillier haircuts - all manufactured, designed to appeal to the record buying teenagers. Jolly tunes but the words were hardly significant to say the least. OK for screaming girls but proper men - like we aspired to be - were more into Kid Ory and Big Bill Broonzy at that time: these were men who been it, seen it and they could play not just plank slap. I'm sorry John Lennon was cut off before his time as he was developing into something worth listening to. Paul MacCarney is desperate to be taken seriously as an artist - witness the symphonies, the poems, the photographs, the paintings (I think)- but he just wrote some jolly tunes long ago and won't accept it until he has the Nobel Prize for something. He's humourless too if you read Private Eye.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Jan 11 - 09:23 PM

Kendall: Take yeah, yeah yeah out of their songs and what is left?

This shows how many of them you know anything about. They've got yeah yeah yeah in exactly one song. Oh yeah oh yeah in another. Oh yeah (just once) in a couple more. 5 songs, maybe 6, out of over 200.

What I like about folk music is that it informs as well as entertains.

Oh yes, I learned so much from The Banks of the Ohio (people kill other people) and Foggy Foggy Dew (people do mysterious things that are wrong but don't say what they are). Need I go on?

If you never learned anything from rock music it must be because you stopped listening after the 6th Beatles song.

I understand not liking the Beatles. They did a few things and not everybody likes those things. But there's no need to employ nonsense to defend your position just because you think it's unpopular.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: J-boy
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:04 AM

Whoa. You're pretty harsh mousethief. I love the Beatles but I don't understand why you feel the need to defend them with such vehemence. They certainly wouldn't.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 03:39 AM

I remember being with my mom, driving on our way Christmas shopping in L.A., when the D.J., comes on, and announces a '..new group from England..'. My first thought was, "What do the British know about rock and roll?". Then, 'I Want to Hold Your Hand', came on. I thought it sounded pretty good, and considering they were Brits! a lot better than surf music, rehashed doo-wop, songs about cars, predictable blue based pop hits, and novelty songs.

Being as I already played both guitar, and piano, I was particularly interested in the SOUND and tonality of their guitars..quite different.
I even, 2 1/2 years later, went out and bought brand new, a 'Gretsch Country Gentleman' just like George's...by the way, a GREAT ax....but more guitar than I was ready for, at the time.

I think that no matter what style you play, The Beatles helped influence, or forwarded a wave, we all came in on, one way or another.

Through time I got tired of hearing their songs..once in a while one pops out sounding refreshing.
I was fortunate enough, when I had my recording studio, in L.A., that a guitarist gave me a copy of Beatle outtakes gleeped from Apple's vault, when they were breaking up. The songs were different, that the versions that made it to the radio, and some I prefer a LOT more than the commercially released ones. These were NOT the ones released as the latter albums, of 'unreleased'..these were rehearsal sessions...and some acoustic versions, that might even qualify as 'folk'. 'I'm Looking Through You' for instance, was acoustic, and the tempo different, and frankly, a lot better.

Like any musicians, some were better than others..some great..some not, some, just because it was them.

Years later, our son worked with McCartney(about4-5 years ago), and previously I did some stuff for Ringo, on a production..who would have thought?

Also, managed to get a signed 'Double Fantasy' from John, just shortly before his death. (signed: "John Lennon _'80"). It just sits in a plastic case with a lot of other stuff. (also got some early albums (vinyl) of theirs in Russian covers...said to worth a lot, and some Russian early Stones, and a couple of Russian McCartney, albums). All of them have never been played.

All that, and I'm still not exactly a Beatle Koo-koo....but some stuff is cool...some, not as cool. Big Deal!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 08:41 AM

Well, it must be a new year 'cause I agree with GfinS...*g*...

I mean, yeah, yeah yeah (sorry, couldn't resist, Capt'n) music had become predictable with surf music and Mo-town... Not alot of hooks in either tho some of the surf music had memorable ones ("Wipe Out" being one)... Seems that the Beatles were able to shuffle the chords just right so that almost all of their songs had a hook... That was very refreshing... And they we're ashamed to let the guitar do alot of the talkin' with some very creative (for those times) intros ("Paper Back Writer")...

Lookin' back, they certainly raised the bar and cleared the way for the Stones, Kinks, Doors, Zeppelin, Yardbirds, Cream, etc..

I think back thru my journey in music from starting out playing a 3 piece drum kit usin' brushes on the snare doing 50s stuff (remember those days) to playin' Dylan music on an old acoustic in the 60s to a Tele by the end of the 60s and, and , and... I mean, music has definitely been evolutionary and there have been these bands/musicians who over the years are/were the steppin' stones to where we are now...

Sure, thanks to the Beatles the 60s had its fair share of stepping stones... As did the 70s... The 80s (IMHO), not so many but then another generation of musicians came along in the 90s to rescue us from disco/musac...

So, like them or not is a matter of personal choice... But no one can deny they impact they had on music... We really owe most of everything that came after to them...

Well, that's the way I see it...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:56 AM

j-boy: [b]Whoa. You're pretty harsh mousethief. I love the Beatles but I don't understand why you feel the need to defend them with such vehemence. They certainly wouldn't. [/b]

You're right. I'll bow out of the discussion; I'm probably taking it too personally. With apologies to all, and especially Kendall.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:57 AM

Made yer Best move and never regretted it I guess.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:36 PM

The Beatles were fab....gear!

Possibly you had to here in England. the excitement of record shops not being able to get enough copies. Record factories simply couldn't keep up enough production.

The style....

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:55 PM

"another generation of musicians came along in the 90s to rescue us from disco/musac"...

Who will rescue us from RAP? Or, is it dwindling already?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 12:56 PM

And, I did not mean Mudcat Rap...but, now that I think of it......

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Doug Saum
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 01:17 PM

Someone who knows Raptor should tend to him. This is a clear cry for HELP! Doug Saum

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 01:30 PM

I know him. He's beyond help! ;-) But he IS happy...and that's more than I can say for some of the people who post regularly on these threads...

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 02:55 PM

I resemble that remark, LH! I demand an apoplexie.

Easily administered with playing Yellow Submarine more than once... about 1.000001 times, actually.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 04:15 PM

Many people don`t like what they refer to as `not my kind of music`. For example, they like folk so rock doesn`t appeal to them. Or they`re rock and orchestral music doesn`t appeal to them. Or they`re jazz and folk doesn`t appeal to them. Such is life. Some people have very narrow vision and well-entrenched prejudices. I guess all people have a little of that in them. We will learn before we die, or not. If yer scratch pad is less than a half inch wide . . .

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 04:35 PM

Whoa! What an opportunity. Okay, since Spaw isn't out of hospital yet to make his kind of rejoinder to that, I will speak for him...

"Or your dick less than half an inch long." ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: olddude
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 04:55 PM

I liked more than a few of their songs for sure. They changed everything I think. Loves you yea yea yea really reminds me of fishin. It was on the radio constantly when we would go to the old fishin hole. Funny how music brings you back to a certain time and place. Today I tend to not listen when it comes on the radio. Not that the songs were not great, just heard them so many times in the nearly 50 years it has been -that I don't get into them anymore as much.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Bobert
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 05:10 PM

Well, that's good, oldster... I know lotta people who just listen to "The Fox" (Clear Channel) classic rock station... I mean, after a few days of it it get really old... Too bad they never did play the underground bands on many stations... We had one in the DC area, WPGC, that went for that music and it was great... I mean, bands like Ten Years After, Spooky Tooth, Humble Pie, Climax Blues Band, etc... Yeah, now I could listen to alot of that today and be very happy for quite some time...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Slag
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 05:18 PM

Yes, GGfS, I will readily concede that point: The Beatles answered the question "Where could music possibly go next?" Their roots were in American Rock 'n Roll but they spawned an explosion that is still ongoing. Imitators and the truly inspired took off in a myriad of directions in ways that seemed inconceivable before their advent.

I would argue that the Moody Blues' Days of Future Past was a really gigantic leap also: something more than three guitars and a drum set. It demonstrated that Rock and Pop were more than kids' stuff. Rock began to grow up.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 05:34 PM

I think rock started growing up lyrically...and in the sense of what themes were expressed in those lyrics...primarily due to the overwhelming influence of Bob Dylan on the entire scene from about 1965 on. The Beatles and the Stones were very much influenced by Bob, and they started writing songs with more serious themes. That was about the time the Beatles began moving away from "silly love songs" and exploring all kinds of other things in their songs.

It was also, perhaps not coincidentally, about the time that the audiences began to shift away from a mob of screaming teenage girls and into the more modern rock audience. The days of the screamers were fast running out by '66.

My old pal Johnny Death told me that he first saw the Stones in '65 at Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto. The first song they played was "Lady Jane". He said that the noise all around from screaming girls in the audience was so deafening that he could barely hear the band!

Thank God that period has passed. Modern rock audiences are fairly noisy...but nothing even comparable to the lunatic hysteria that was standard back in '64 when bands like the Beatles or the Stones played a live concert.

When Dylan brought the quiet folk audience and the noisy rock audience together in '65-66, and played songs that made you think, that was when the whole scene started to grow up a bit.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 06:13 PM

Dylan's transition from "folk" to "electric" was not that smooth, among the folk following fans...I seem to remember he was "booed" off the stage on at least one occasion,

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 06:28 PM

HELP! Over 6 million served. Put that in yer bank account!

Rock and rollllllll

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 06:31 PM

About half of them hated it, and the other half loved it. That's a pretty good average when you're introducing an unexpected change in your style, but it's the complainers who always make the most noise isn't it? ;-) Maria Muldaur was there watching when he played at Newport, and she loved it, and she says a lot of the other people did too, but that the sound mix was very bad, so it was hard to hear a lot of the words.

What really upset the crowd the most that night was (1) the lousy sound mix onstage during the brief electric set and (2) that Dylan played such a short overall set. They were expecting him to stay on a lot longer. As I recall, he played 3 electric songs...to a very mixed reaction...then played 3 acoustic songs...to rapturous applause...then left the stage. People felt let down that he didn't play longer than that. The media then got hold of the "booing" incident and publicized it everwhere, and it gathered steam from that moment on, building to the famous "Judas!" shout in Manchester and Dylan's "You're a liar!" response to same. It seems to have been (some of) the English folkies who were most deeply upset about Dylan's supposed "sellout". Methinks they took themselves and their whole pretentious political shtick a wee bit too seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 06:39 PM

Don't worry... it'll be alright.

What's not rock and roll and what's not a statement... Lady Madonna? Who can call them bubblegum and vaccuous?

And who can deny them their value to entertaining the human condition? 6M hits on one song? On You Tube. 6M hits on one song!

Of course, I am still pissed that Sir Paul doesn't like seal flipper pie but I forgive his stupidity as he really isn't all that smart as a human.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ron Davies
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 09:19 PM

First of all, I suppose we're registering our displeasure with the Beatles by having this thread below the line.   It clearly appears to be about music.

Secondly, Mousethief may have been a bit vehement, but he makes some good points.

What exactly have Mudcatters learned from folk music (that they did not know before, of course)?

Seems to me that if you learn anything from a folk song, it's virtually always a very slanted bit of information (usually left of center, with some exceptions-- e.g. : where on the political spectrum do you put Sam Hall?)

Slanted, just as when people think they can learn about history from a movie (e.g. Oliver Stone movies).

It pays to be skeptical of anything you "learn" from a song--or a movie--unless it's confirmed elsewhere.

Which is of course in large part true about any single source.



The Beatles were great fun and made good pop music.   Until people--and maybe the Beatles-- felt the songs had to have a deeper significance.   Just why was it ever a burning issue who was the Walrus, by the way?   Or who Lucy was? Etc.   And why did they have to try to twist every dial in the studio?

That was when the music lost a lot of its charm.

But the early stuff--before they retired from touring-- is still great--on its own, undemanding, terms.

Boiled down, I suppose this means I agree with the earlier poster who said they were a lot better before Paul died.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 09:47 PM

This thread is below the line because it is bullshit. It's just fun. It's just banter. It's just what some do... even muscians post inane crap now and then for FUN. NObody really hates The Beatles. Just some of their music I expect.

Excepting a few seal pups that Paul scared the shit out of when he and the crazy bitch terrorized the poor buggers. (NO! I will NEVER let that crap go. NEVER. That poor seal pup in the photo op will never forget either. Unless it was eaten by some hungry Newfie child that Sir Paul didn't invite for a hot meal on his fookin yacht.)

Sorry. But there it is.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 10:03 PM

Gnu, I suspect you have blown a seal, or two, off Shediac in your life (a seal in your snow mobile, that is)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 11:09 PM

Dan, grandbabies love the Beatles. You'd better tune up a few of theirs along with your own, of course.:-)

LH, Night Owl wouldn't agree with you, from what she's told me about Newport. She was there and there were a bunch of Americans, like her, who were NOT happy about him going electric. Ya can't put that off on just the Brits.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 05:57 AM

Yes, Kat, I'm well aware that some of the Americans at Newport were very upset with Dylan for going electric. (According to Maria Muldaur, about half the people there didn't like it, and the other half did like it.) My point, however, was that the negative reaction of the folk community in Britain, overall, was more extreme than it was in most of the USA. There was one outdoor show that Dylan did at Forest Hills, I think it was, in the USA where the audience was extremely hostile to the new music. It got so bad for a bit that the Band's famous drummer, Levon Helm, couldn't take it anymore, and he quit the tour, and somebody else filled in for him after that (Mickey Jones?).

Amos was at Newport in '65, though, and he seems to have enjoyed Dylan's electric set just fine. I think many others there enjoyed it too, though opinions were sharply divided on that.

I probably would have objected to it strenuously at the time, because I was still a folkie purist in '65 and I had utter contempt for electric rock bands on principle. However, I didn't really start listening to old Bob himself till about 4 years later, and the first stuff I really tuned into then was the electric albums, and they really blew my mind. I loved them. It was definitely time for a change, Bob just got there about 4 or 5 years sooner than I did, that's all. ;-) He got there sooner than a whole lot of people did.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 07:00 AM

"What really upset the crowd the most that night was (1) the lousy sound mix onstage during the brief electric set?

I was at a Dylan concert a year or so ago, this could describe that concert also. I am not really sure if he ever really "got" the electrical stuff? Or, maybe he is just maintaining the tradition?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 07:40 AM

Perhaps it's a case of the green-eyed monster, here in the West Country at that time apart from the Troggs (of crop circle fame)it wasn't really happening here, in Bristol anyway, my older cousins told about the jazz clubs and coffee bars in Bristol but nothing as far as I am aware that successfully topped the charts.

London and the Northern cities could just have well been as far away as the USA to us. Our neighbours in Wales produced Tom Jones but unfortunately he didn't really do it for the pre-teens and teenage girls of that time who regarded as him being mainly for the 40 something housewives right until the 80's, infact until he started to collaborate with some of the modern bands of now from the 90's onwards I hadn't really taken very much notice of him until then. If we had been lucky enough to produced something for the city like the Beatles it might have been a different story.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 11:16 AM

I don't know, Ed. I've been to about a dozen Dylan concerts since '74, and the sound has been great in all of them. As for Bob's performance, it was great in most of them, but not all that good in 2 of them. He has his off nights now and then.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 11:05 PM

Don't get me wrong LH, it was good to see him, and his singing was fine with me. Just the music.

But, it was far better than a year or so when I went to a Neil Young concert. You couldn't even hear his voice or lyrics through the music. I guess just bad mixing. I experienced the same thing at a David Bowie concert...if I hadn't known the lyrics of his songs, I wouldn't have understood em with the overloaded music. All the above concerts were inside (different places)....it's maybe a factor. And, I understand thay are often trying to put a new sound on old songs. Oh well...I like tham all anyway. But, its their voices and lyrics I like best.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,jeff
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:24 PM

When my son was five we were talking on the telephone. I was was a non-custodial parent at the time. He's 25 now.

At one point he says, "Dad, do you know who my favorite band is?" "No, who is it, Owen?" "The Beatles."

The other day we were talking on the phone. He lives pretty far away from me. He says, "Dad, you know what cd I just bought w/part of the money you sent us for Christmas?" "No." "The Beatles' BBC cd set."

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Genie
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:41 PM

And this thread is in the non-music-related section why?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 04:16 PM

Genie... ahhh... it's been discussed in the thread already. I'd post it for you but I think you might find it more interesting to read the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Genie
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 03:47 AM

Not really, Gnu.   I scanned the thread and didn't have time to read all the discussion carefully. (There's no way to do a quick word search to find the placement topic/issue.)

I'm just generally of the opinion that when a thread topic is music -- as opposed to, say, the political views or personal lives of musicians -- it belongs in the music section. It's confusing when music-oriented threads are relegated to the "non-music" section. I did read through a lot of the posts, and they seemed all to be about the Beatles' music.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Genie
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 05:53 AM

gnu,
I've now read the entire thread to date, and the issue of why this music-related thread is in the non-music-related section isn't addressed until after the 100th post.

(Even at that, I don't buy your rationale, as many music-related threads here are equally chit-chatty, snarky, and full of bullshit. They're just bullshit (or "breeze shooting") about music — and often about music that's no more "folk" than a lot of what The Beatles did.
(I've never accepted the custom of labelling a group "rock" and calling the genre of all their songs "rock" just because SOME of what they do falls into that category. I think The Beatles were far too eclectic in their styles and influences to be pigeonholed as "rock musicians.")

But the main reason I didn't wade through the whole thread before posting the Q about why it's in the BS section is that, by putting the thread in the BS section, you signaled me that its content wasn't about The Beatles as performers, songwriters, instrumentalists, or vocalists.   I don't open a lot of BS threads, and placement of the thread here suggested to me that the content of the thread was something quite different from what it actually seems to be for the most part.

So now do we need 3 separate sections? One for "serious discussions of folk music & blues," one for non-music-related topics, and a third for "Other kinds of music and/or casual banter about music or musicians?"

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 06:05 AM

No.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 06:22 AM

===This thread is below the line because it is bullshit. It's just fun. It's just banter. It's just what some do... even muscians post inane crap now and then for FUN. NObody really hates The Beatles. Just some of their music I expect.===

In fact, gnu, for all your saying, this, as Genie says, is mere assertion, inconsistent with the usual reasons for threads being BS, & explains zilch. Like Genie, I have wondered all along why this is a below-line thread when it is so self-evidently music oriented, & as related to folk and as serious about its subject [who sez it's just 'bullshit' & 'banter' & 'FUN', apart from you?] as many other above-line threads.

I presume it is BS because that is what the OP, Raptor, chose. But he hasn't been back to explain why.

I think we should be told.

Please...

~Michael~

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 07:45 AM

Patsy, for high-gloss feel-good American music, it is the secret of success that it sounds "self-evident" in hindsight without really being predictable. Bacharach is its classical master, in a sense comparable to Mozart. The Beatles, in a different genre, actually managed to expand the range of what was considered to sound good, which is their historical merit. For parallels in classical music, Beethoven and Schubert have been named. Unfortunately, a large part of what the Beatles published was indeed either predictable or just weird, in other words mediocre.

Well, they're history now, and the only rightful cause of "hatred" about them is the commercialist necrophilia encountered in today's media, as mentioned above.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 10:35 AM

You haven't been told yet today? >;-)

Raptor knew what he was doing. Me too. LH too...

Of course, I wouldn't put it past him to return and ask for it to be moved. Perhaps someone shoud start a PM petition so he can be persuaded to mend the error of his ways. Maybe we could hold a plebiscite on starting a petition.

I, for one, do not think any discussion of The Beatles should be allowed at all as they "are not folk"... or are they?

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Ed T
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 10:45 AM

""many music-related threads here are equally chit-chatty, snarky, and full of bullshit.""

The question may also be, are these not "below-the liners", or really, "above-the-liners"?

OK, is someone new attempting another BS thread take over scheme?
:)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Raptor
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 06:36 PM

This thread is below the line because it is bullshit. It's just fun. It's just banter. It's just what I do... even muscians post inane crap now and then for FUN.

If responding to stuff in the BS section is beneath you stay above. I find the banter down here less serious and more entertaining. Also My opinion about the Beatles is not musical its incidental. My opinion about whom I like or hate should not matter to anyone but me.

Also I thought less people wopuld chime in with critisism because they feel slighted by the fact that I think the beatles are a shitty boy band from the sixties(like they are personaly involved in any way with the beatles aside from being one of millions of people who like to listen to them.)

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: gnu
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 08:29 PM

Raptor... I was at Zellers today on accounta it is a nice place to take Mum for some exercise in her old age as there is hardly anyone there most days so she can easily wheel around a cart. I saw a half dozen young lads with Just In Beaver haircuts and it reminded me of The Beavers back in the 60s. Mop tops all. Looked as stunned as me arse but a lad will do anything to alleviate a hard days night eh.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,seth in Olympia
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 10:47 PM

--Kennedy killed,Viet-Nam takes off, Beatles arrive- many things turn upside down don't get turned about. Liked the Beatles,still can't stand to hear " Magical Mystery Tour" 'cause it has too many Viet-Nam connections for me.......

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Clontarf83
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 01:23 AM

Trying to figure out a folkie version of "across the universe:---that is one amazing song...

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: Genie
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 01:35 AM

Grishka, since the advent of recorded music, no artists who have produced records, tapes, CDs, etc., are really only "history." Bands disband, musicians die or for lesser reasons stop producing new songs and compositions, etc., but the music lives on.

For that matter, are we to say that Beethoven is simply "history," just because he left only sheet music and has been de-composing for centuries? How about Child ballads?

I see no reason why the discussion of someone's music is less valid or important just because they are "history."


Oh, and as that comment - like most of this thread really IS about music, it's annoying that the thread has arbitrarily been relegated to the BS section -- where people wanting to check out only music-related threads will not open it.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 05:24 AM

Genie, of course history should be discussed about - if I thought otherwise I would not do it so often myself. Discussions can be controversial and even emotional. But hatred is an emotion reserved to present conditions. Therefore, in our case, I think the objects are not The Beatles, but phenomena in our current media.

Ethnic hatred is often based on undigested bits of ancient history, wrongly projected to current grievances. Fortunately, this thread is not meant that seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 06:13 AM

A negative legacy that the Beatles left is the 'boy band culture' wherever you look at every turn up pops another one.

Subject: RE: BS: I Hate the Beatles
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 10 Jan 11 - 08:14 AM

Discussions like this is really more of how it influenced your life in general not so much the music more of what you were doing or what tastes you preferred at the time. Even if you hate them it still gets one heck of a response. It is more of a milestone like Bill Haley, Elvis, Kennedy, The Beatles, Twiggy, The Stones, The Sex Pistols, Nirvana. Mostly what I remembered about the Beatle era was having a great family time, the music is memorable mostly because I was young and happy then and I equate it with that.

It would be interesting to see threads about different popular bands or artists (or animated characters) just to see the response.