BS: VaTam Should I go home?

Subject: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:03 AM

OK here it is. I haven't been contributing to the Cat much because I have been quite low. Seems most of my thought is taken with wishing to move back to Virginia from the UK.

My partner is 60 and could technically retire.

I will be 53 next month and have at least a decade of full time work left in me.

Our main worry is the cost of health care as the sale of our flat would probably buy us a decent little house near the Chickahominy river with only a small mortgage. Sale of our car (it is pretty new) would easily pay for decent car in US.

I have found that there are at least 4 jobs at William & Mary (in Williamsburg a 30 minute drive from where we want to live) that I am more than qualified for. They are full time state jobs and salaried with benefits, so our health care would be covered.
Job will probably leave us with about $2000 a month to live on after mortgage. This is without touching partner's pension or the savings.

Even if I can't get state job, I have had some looks at comparable jobs in private sector in Newport News (also drivable) and could do near as well though maybe more expensive health care.

Partner is willing to work for a short time in US, if he is permitted to (he is English) qualified IT lecturer. I don;t think it will be necessary if I can get one of the jobs I have been looking at.

I think if we wait until partner is 65, I will be less likely to get a decent job in US and I will be stuck in UK until I die. The prospect is making me more and more depressed.

I am thinking I should jump, because there is no guarantee that I will keep the job I currently have in the UK. I work in public sector and we are about to be centralised and restructured and probably sold to the lowest private sector bidder. There will be a great many of us competing for a few downgraded posts. All this happens by mid summer this year.

What do my Mudcat friends think? Am I missing something? Am I not likely to get a job due to my age anyway?

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:27 AM

Go, Tam...and take me with you! ;0)

WHY are you even asking yourself? Just go! Your prospects over there are far better than over here...FAR better, from the sound of it.

Your daughter's there and she needs you, you need her..

I wish you both all the love and luck in the world...and I hope that finally things start to look up for you.

xxx

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:31 AM

I would say it depends..one big thing is if he is a partner or a husband..if you are not married I would be much more inclined to come back, especially with your daughter's health problems. On the other hand, it seems there would be some way she could immigrate to England if she was forced to to get health coverage..but then she is getting married..would daughter qualify for a state job? That would be best for her. I personally would not adjust my life for a non-married partner, but would quite a bit if I were married. Oh shit the tsumani alarm is just coming on. mg

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:52 AM

We were married in Virginia in 2003. I moved to UK 3 months after we married. No chance of us breaking up. We are soul mates and best friends.

So the US will have to recognise our marriage. Thing is, he may not have to work. I think I can earn enough that we can live quite comfortably without dipping into his pension. That can be saved for trips to UK.

The hard part would be, being separated from husband for several months while he sells off and packs up stuff in UK, while I am living in US. I think if I get a job soon, that I could live with my Aunt who is in same neighbourhood as house we want.

Then I only need to dip into savings for flights to US for interviews and move and to buy a cheap runner car.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:54 AM

I think if you move it would be good for him, if he wants to, to keep doing some lectures in England..keep up citizenship and health care and professional activities, unless he is really into relocating totally. I am thinking a few business trips a year, not a long-distance marriage. mg

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: ClaireBear
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 03:45 AM

It sounds wise to come now, but then again, I am not familiar with the job market for women of a certain age -- mind you I am that age, but I've had the same job for 16 years now. The thing is, you are right that the longer you wait, the worse that ageism in the workplace thing is likely to get.

We'd certainly love to see you at the next Getaway...

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Will Fly
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 04:18 AM

Well, it was nice meeting you and your lovely partner, Tam! Do whatever you must do to be happy. I would just add one comment, based on the experience of an acquaintance of mine who is a major figure in the jazz, blues and folk guitar world.

He was born in the US and has lived in the US and in Europe for alternating periods of time - he currently lives in England and has an English wife. He has a couple of health conditions which require regular and complex medication. He estimates that the cost of this medication in the US would be in the region of $50,000 per annum, and that few of the commercial medicare-type companies would sustain that level of cost. Over here, where he works and pays tax and NHS contributions, the medication is provided by the NHS and he pays for prescriptions as do all those under 60.

He can't afford to live in the US. If you're health is good and your partner's health is good, then life could be good there. Bad health can be problematical - and I'm sure you know this already, but I thought I'd just mention it.

My sister, who is a nurse who lives in Tucson, has related a number of interesting stories to me about the US health system and money - "interesting" in the Chinese sense of "may you live in interesting times". However, home is where your heart is - and your heart is clearly back in the USA!

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:02 AM

Tam, whatever you decide and do please have my very best wishes for your happiness.
fB Charlie

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Richie Black (misused acct, bad email)
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 05:29 AM

There are a few factors to take into consideration here.

There is nothing more important than a child, if you feel in your head and heart you have to be with her, then go.

The employment situation is no better over there than it is here. If you can afford to go on a holiday/fact finding trip, please do that first.

Being with the ones you love is important, being able to live in comfort with financial ease of mind is VERY important.

As we all get older, time seems to pass quicker, either plan and act now, or settle yourself into your comfort zone and bring your daughter over here.

Thoughts with you right now, I hope you find peace of mind over this soon.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 09:38 AM

Home is where the heart is, and lots of yours has been with your daughter. I don't see that there's much more I can add.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 09:41 AM

Having suffered through three long-distance separations due to job moves, I can tell you that it isn't easy. It does, however, make or break the marriage -- ours became stronger each time. There should be decent health insurance through the employer, and you would probably be vested by the time you retired so that health insurance would be part of your retirement. William & Mary would be a Good Deal if you can land it...and I THINK (ask Jacqui) that he would become a US citizen because he's married to one.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Becca72
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:27 AM

Citizenship still has to be applied for, Rap. He would become a Permanent Resident/Spouse or something like that...
Ask Jacqui. Or if you have specific questions about immigration I can ask my ex, who works as an adjudications officer (he helped Jacqui fill out the forms)

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:58 AM

Tam - you need to check out what would be required for your husband to become, at least, a permanent resident in the USA. It cost us over $3,000 for the legal stuff to get my green card and immigration can be tricky. We had to provide a lot of proof that we were in a genuine relationship - for some reason they think that EVERYONE is desperate to live in the States. Assurances will be required that you can support your husband and that he will not become a drain on the USA.

You may also find that, unless you present a fait accompli with your husband living in the States, that they may refuse him entry until they have made up their minds to give him a temporary green card, which lasts for two years, after which you have to apply for the permanent card (lasts for 10 years and then must be renewed). i didn't even try going through the American Embassy in the UK - at that time it cost just to phone them and everything was SLOW.

PM me your phone# and I'll give you further info.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:40 PM

Jacqui - He would have pension and not need to be supported by me. I could probably get work that pays enough that we don't need to use his pension except for special stuff.

One thing we worry about is how much the US will tax us on his lump sum payout on his pension. If indeed it is 35% then we can't move. End of!

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:53 PM

Whichever road you take, you may always wonder if the other road would have been smoother. Is there someone here in the US who can answer your tax question? Maybe you could do 10-year income averaging if that option still (or ever did) exist? I think I remember hearing about it some 40 years-or-so ago. I think there may also have been a 3-year income averaging option.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 02:56 PM

The Tax Reform Act of 1986 repealed income averaging.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 03:00 PM

Another Income Average
Another form of income averaging exists for certain people who close out a tax-deferred retirement plan such as a 401k or traditional individual retirement account by taking a large lump-sum distribution. According to SunTrust.com, people born before 1936, who have been in their tax-deferred retirement plan for at least five years and who take out the entire balance in their plan in a single distribution, may be able to use 10-year income averaging to spread the tax bite over a 10-year span. The IRS would assume the account balance was paid in 10 equal annual installments and set the annual tax liability accordingly.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 04:55 PM

It is going to take you a while to find a job, perhaps start it. He has things to wind up over there. Would tax situation be better after 2012 starts and it is a new tax year? Presumably he could keep a residence in UK and still visit etc. mg

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Janie
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 09:02 PM

VT the job market here is still really tight, and ageism is real when you go looking. I don't know what your field is. Be aware that public universities in the USA are undergoing severe budget cuts. They are cutting programs and professional staff, divesting themselves of degree programs with low enrollments, enlarging class sizes, finding that research grants are drying up, etc. I don't know what your area of expertise might be. If it is highly specialized and there are few people in the job market with the knowledge, skills and expertise, you might be all right.   Otherwise, don't count on being well qualified to land the job for you. Competition is fierce. From the standpoint of employers, it is a "buyers market" right now.

I have fairly recent experience looking for other work opportunities after age 50, and very recent experience with hiring new staff.

Regarding the vacancy I just filled, the applicant pool was incredibly deep. I began the process worried that I would not get qualified applicants at the wage and benefit package offered. Instead, I ended up with 6 applicants I thought could hit the ground running, and another 5, if the 1st 6 had declined, that I felt pretty confident could quickly grow into the position.

My understanding is you have some significant health/medical issues. If you move back and do not line up work quickly, will you still qualify for health care benefits in the UK, and will you have the means to fly back to the UK to access those benefits if you need them? If so, that might make the move more feasible than it might otherwise be, should you not quickly find work here.

Not trying to discourage you at all. Were I in your shoes I would be absolutely aching to be near my child, and willing to contemplate considerable sacrifices in other areas of my life now or in the future to do so. Just do your homework. Research. Network. Like you are doing now. There is no wrong decision. Just do what it is within your scope of power to do to make an informed decision regarding the potential costs and benefits.

All the best,

Janie

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 10:26 PM

The tax treaty between the US and the UK seems to say that lump-sum pension benefits are taxable only in the UK: "Article 17, 2.Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 1 of this Article, a lump-sum payment derived from a pension scheme established in a contracting State and beneficially owned by a resident of the other contracting State shall be taxable only in the first-mentioned State. However, I am neither a tax expert nor an expert in international law. The complete text of the tax treaty is here.

It is 10 years since I retired from HR work, but I'd caution you that the fact that there are jobs that you think you are qualified for doesn't mean that you'd be selected for them, or even that the people at Wm & Mary even plan to fill them.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Janie
Date: 11 Mar 11 - 11:15 PM

Art says in a sentence what took me 3 paragraphs....

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 02:04 AM

I live not far from where you are thinking of moving. I'm in Mechanicsville in the vicinity of the picturesque Chicahomminy swamp….Here are my thoughts. You could definitely be happy and make a life here but….
I don't think you can ever really "go home" again. You've changed, and it has changed around here too. The culture shock from returning "home"can be worse than the culture shock of moving to a completely new place. I lived in Europe for seven years and got the itch to "go home". It was great for a couple of months, then reality set in and I felt like a foreigner in my own country – a truly awful feeling, I can assure you. It took me years to adjust. That's something to look out for. You won't like the prevailing political and social mindset around here, and there isn't much folk music. There's plenty of bluegrass and country music, but no folk clubs in the sense that they have them in the UK.      
I don't think the job prospects are impossible, but I doubt it will be easy. There's still a lot of unemployment, and I know a lot of qualified people looking for jobs, and those in their fifties are having a hard time of it. The other thing to keep in mind is, even if you get a job and can get health care coverage for yourself and your husband, you're only a layoff away from losing that insurance for both of you. And given your ages and preexisting conditions, if you ever have to buy health insurance on the open market it'll be very, very expensive. I think under the new legislation (if the republicans don't succeed in getting it repealed) they can't deny coverage for preexisting conditions, but they can and do charge an arm and a leg. Another thing to check on , will your husband be eligible for Medicare when he's 65? It's almost impossible to get anything but Medicare supplements after age 65, so if he doesn't qualify for Medicare he could end up with no insurance, as a lot of companies drop coverage at that point, figuring that Medicare will take over.
When you are down and things are not going right, it's all too easy to fall into "the grass is greener" mentality, but this is definitely not the promised land. Frankly I've never seen things so polarized and unstable, and the economy is still weak.
I know you have some powerful reasons to want to move, chief among them being your daughter. You also would probably be able to afford a nice house here for what you'd sell your flat for in the UK, given the relative housing values, and it's a good time to buy right now. Plus as you know, Virginia is beautiful – beaches, mountains – it has it all. I've managed to have a fulfilling life here, and you could forge one to. But definitely try to get in a frame of mind where you're not looking at it with rose colored glasses, and weigh the pros and cons very carefully.

Have a look at this website - there is a forum that might be of help:
Dive Into America

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: eddie1
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 07:01 AM

Dear VT

My heart bleeds for you. You're facing some very difficult decisions.

It's a parent's job to look after their children and one you never retire from.

Having done a fair bit of pond-hopping, I agree with Jacqui's comment above that the powers that be seem to think that everyone is desperate to live in the US! Errr well, NO, actually!

I hate to throw something else into the mix but you need to check that there are no residential requirements attached to your partner's pension which I assume is from a previous employment or a private pension scheme.

What is certain is that the UK State Retirement Pension that he will have paid for by dint of his National Insurance Contributions, presuming he has spent most of his working life in the UK, is not payable to anyone resident outside the EU.

This is going to be the subject of a re-organisation but will probably be payable when he reaches 65/66 and looks like being increased to £140 per week. A not inconsiderable sum.

One thing you can be sure of is that wherever you are, UK, US or Timbuktu, your Mudcat fiende will still be reachable!

Lots and lots of Love and huge hugs!

You will make the right decision.

Eddie

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: eddie1
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 07:33 AM

Oooops! That should have been "Mudcat friends"!

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 07:45 AM

Been thinking about it and yes, we could probably afford it. The UK state pension does transfer but we would want to keep an account with some money in the UK. The main worry is me getting and keeping the job with benefits. All hinges on that and it seems too big a risk in the current climate.


My problem for the last couple of months I have been tempted by this house a short walk from my Aunt's house where I spent my summers as a child.

http://thebestlight.net/beech/photo_unbranded.html

Sigh... it is so lovely by the Chickahominy River.

I have been so incredibly down for a number of reasons:
1. worry about my daughter
2. worry about my job
3. so little sunshine since October
4. loss of the winter sing around session in Kent
5. in full rheumatoid arthritic flare
6. miss not having a proper house and garden

But things are getting better.

1.   daughter is getting health sorted and is now engaged to be married. She is being looked after.
2.   I don't like the job so if I lose it, is it a big deal? I will find some way to make income. if note I will do volunteer work.
3.   sun has been out a lot this week and today it is nearly warm as well.
4.   folk sessions in Kent and elsewhere are more prevalent in UK than they will be in Williamsburg
5.   I will get steroid injections in June which will make the summer a bit more pain free
6.   We are fixing up the 1970's kitchen and building a garden in the 2 metre floor to ceiling lounge window this summer.

If I can hang on until TheSilentOne retires in 4 to 5 years, then we will buy a house in Kent and plan extended holidays in US to appease my homesick. Maybe hire campervan part of the time and go around October through November. In the meantime I need to deal with the long grey winter months. So maybe we will do short weekend breaks in sunny Spain during Feb midterm. Cheap, change of scene to break the doldrums.


Sorry I worried you folks with my problems.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: jacqui.c
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 09:10 AM

Tam - that's part of the Mudcat thing - we can come here and tell our 'family' what is going on and, even if all we can do is sympathise, just the telling can often crystalise issues in our own minds.

I'm going to put this thread in my 'trace' file - there's a lot of good info here that might be handy in the future.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: olddude
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 09:42 AM

Whatever you decide to do my friend. Please know that I will always be thinking of you and are here to help anyway I can

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 09:59 AM

We had a cold, depressing winter here too, VT! Your idea of waiting till your husband retires sounds like the best of all possible scenarios - then you could spend plenty of time visiting the folks at home and still have your place in the UK. How often do you get to visit nowadays? Five years goes by fast and then you'll be in a much better position.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 11:54 AM

Last visit to US was summer 2007 I think. I have had Hilary here 2X since then, which helps. Before that it was 2005 when Andie passed.

Maybe next summer we can go to US. We are tied to school summer holiday until TSO retires. After that we can go when flights are cheaper (ha). I really want to be in Virginia for autumn colours and around family for Thanksgiving.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 11:55 AM

BTW... you guys are brilliant. Some of you very dear to me even though I have not met you face to face.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Maryrrf
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 01:39 PM

Give me a holler next time you're in Virginia and we'll get together for a drink and maybe a sing!

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 12 Mar 11 - 01:59 PM

What a great thread! As I read it, my inclination was: pros and cons really don't make it for me. What matters most is that feeling inside of us that will tell us what we are meant to do, if we listen. However, the discussion seems to have helped in the clearness process.

That's what friends are for!

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 01:40 PM

Well the house we love has been reduced by another $7000 and so I thought I would have another look at the job market in the area. Found and applied for a job in Toano, only 18 miles form the house we want.

Now waiting to see if Lumber Liquidators feels I am a possible fit for Human Resource Admin Asst. II vacancy.

Watch this space.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 01:42 PM

Best wishes, VT.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: maeve
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 01:55 PM

I'll be hoping for a happy new adventure for you, Tam.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 02:06 PM

Tam - all best wishes!

Even if you do decide to go home, I hope to see and hear you in Sidmouth first?

Kitty
xx

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 04:04 PM

Kitty

We are stewarding this year, so should be around, unless forced into super speedy house move.

Which venue does your group usually meet?

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 14 Jun 11 - 05:21 PM

Tam - Fringe (so free) morning sings in the Royal York's Faulkner bar (entrance from Esplanade or Fore Street), from 10.30 to 12.30, Sunday 31 July to Friday 5 August. We'll have a festival collecting tin for contributions from people who've enjoyed what they've heard (or sung!)

Kitty

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: SINSULL
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 03:15 PM

Is this the silver lining to the upcoming cloud?

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Paul Burke
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 05:47 PM

You could be right. By the time Cameron's finished with the NHS, you'll be as well off in the US. One thing the US has going for it: if it's not exactly the Land of the Free, it's very often the Land of the Fairly Cheap, so you could sell whatever you have in Babylon, buy a shack, and live off the change.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 06:12 PM

Once you retire, will your partner get healthcare?

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: gnu
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 06:45 PM

I see a post 14 Jun 11 - 05:21 PM. Then a post today. I am lost.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Janie
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 07:50 PM

I was for a bit also, gnu - then opened this thread..

wishing blessings for you, VT.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Gurney
Date: 18 Nov 11 - 09:29 PM

When your partner reaches 65, his pension will still be paid, no matter where he lives, I think. I receive part of my pension from the UK Government and I haven't lived or worked there since 1974.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 03:28 AM

But in the USA will you get any decent healthcare? Sure the UK NHS is being sold down the river by the conservatives, but am I not right that the Repuglicans or at least the Tea Potty are working hard on the same (or a worse) fate for elderly Americans and their limited present rights.

Subject: RE: BS: VaTam Should I go home?
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 19 Nov 11 - 05:18 AM

Wow! I didn't expect to see this thread this morning. I wish it were so, Mary. You don't know how much.

I think JacquiC has explained it is very difficult for mixed nationality couples in the US.

TSO is only 61. I am 53. He has 4 more years before he can retire. I have never been able to put any aside for retirement except through the local government pension scheme the last 8 years I have worked in UK.

I simply can't afford not to work if I want to visit my family back home in Virginia or bring them here to visit me.

One thing is for sure. If I cannot get a job, I shall have to default on my Sallie Mae loan.

Thank you all, for your good wishes.