BS: Christian Persecution

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 06:50 PM

"Greg, by ancient communities I meant communities that have existed since biblical times.
Like the Christians in Syria, West Bank, Iraq, ..."

Like the Cathars of central Europe?

I see that you are quite happy to encompass the distant past as long as the Crusades, the Inquisition and the destruction of the Druids are disallowed from the discussion.

You are one of the most biased people in existence.

A man out of his proper time and place, which would most likely be Germany c. 1933.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 06:39 PM

And that is what you are suggesting is right Bobad, which tells us a lot about you!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 06:38 PM

"Yeah but Keith. being anti-abortion is the equivalent of beheading, don't you know?"

It is when a woman is left to die when a termination would save her life.

That is what is being advocated and that is what is being carried out in supposedly civilised countries which are hag ridden by religious fundamentalists.

And that is what is being proposed by the Christian Right/Republicans in the USA.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 04:47 PM

You bet, Keith - but what has all that BS got to do with the modern communities of today that we are discussing in light of what is occurring NOW?

Absolutely nothing.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 12:47 PM

The first Christian communities in Roman Palestine were Aramaic speaking Messianic Jews and Latin and Greek speaking Romans and Greeks, who were in part descendants from previous settlers of the regions,

The Christian communities of Syria, which comprise about 10 percent of the population,[1] spring from two great traditions. On the one hand, Roman Catholicism and Protestantism were introduced by missionaries and a small number of Syrians are members of Western denominations. The vast majority, on the other hand, belong to the Eastern communions, which have existed in Syria since the earliest days of Christianity.

Christianity was brought to Iraq in the first century AD by the Apostles Thomas and Addai (Thaddaeus) and his pupils Aggagi and Mari. Thomas and Thaddeus belonged to the twelve Apostles.[4] Iraq's Eastern Aramaic speaking Assyrian Christian communities are believed to be among the oldest in the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 12:38 PM

Wrong Greg.
You are as ignorant as your muppet mate.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 12:10 PM

...Like the Christians in Syria, West Bank, Iraq, ........

Ah, but Keith, those are in fact very modern communities. Or do you mean to only deal with communities mentioned in the Bible and other fairy-tales?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 12:04 PM

It is not my stance that no-one can, but no-one has.
So please give us some.
The very worst ones you are aware of.

I have been following the sectarian strife in CAR.
What point are you making about it?

Greg, by ancient communities I meant communities that have existed since biblical times.
Like the Christians in Syria, West Bank, Iraq, ........

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 11:39 AM

Err. Yes Keith.

It gives no pleasure whatsoever in shooting you down with facts because the situation in Central African Republic is awful. Both sides on the conflict are committing atrocities and they are divided on Christian v Muslim lines. The Christian rebels are believed to have beheaded children as part of trying to regain parts of the capital.

I have just been listening to BBC Radio 4 news whilst driving home. Presumably you can read it before conceding I am not a liar?

Your stance above that nobody can provide evidence of Christians committing atrocities is absolutely fucking outrageous.

What is the difference between a Christian and a Muslim? What makes one more likely to commit atrocities than the other ?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 11:03 AM

drives ancient communities into extinction Oh! is THAT what its about? Ancient Cultures? Like Atlantis you mean? Or the Hittites?

Precisely which ancient cultures are you talking about specifically?

by murder, torture, imprisonment, rape, forced conversion and the destruction of homes and places of worship. Are you aware of any Xtians doing that?

Are you telling me you're NOT aware of any?

Jesus is still weeping.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 10:27 AM

We could discuss that on another thread, and you would find I share your views.
This thread is about the kind of persecution that drives ancient communities into extinction by murder, torture, imprisonment, rape, forced conversion and the destruction of homes and places of worship.
Are you aware of any Xtians doing that?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 10:14 AM

anti-abortion is the equivalent of beheading

It is, BooBad, when the mother dies in favor of a clump of cells.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 09:41 AM

Here's some info on the "Christans"[sic] who do the persecuting in the U.S. by among other things shoving nonsense down the throats of impressionable children and by forcing others to live according to the tennets of nonsense.

Just 43 percent of self-identified Republicans in America believe that humans and other living beings evolved over time, according to a newly released Pew Research Center poll. The figure has fallen sharply from 54 percent in a similar survey taken in 2009.

By contrast, 48 percent from the GOP believe that all living things have existed in their present form since the beginning of time.

31 Dec 2013

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 08:23 AM

Yeah but Keith. being anti-abortion is the equivalent of beheading, don't you know?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Dec 13 - 01:28 AM

Then I ask you again Greg.
Of course they(Xtian persecutors) should be brought to book.
Persecution is abhorrent whoever does it.
Are you aware of any?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 05:31 PM

Greg, I take that as a "no."

Now THERE'S your problem - or at least one of many.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 04:53 PM

No. I just feel nauseous when you state that gay people are perverts and your wish to see them as having less rights than others.

I would rather you lose the right to openly preach hate and homophobia.

In the meantime, I speak of the prevalence of Christian persecution and Keith likes to say I don't believe it. He says only he reckons there is an issue.

Sad tossers. Bigotry doesn't like having a mirror held to it, possibly because you are only ashamed of your stance when people smile as they dismiss you.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 04:36 PM

Hah!...What a joke, Ian whining about others trying to "stifle debate".

This is the same guy who states that other members should not be allowed to voice their opinions, who he would like to see "stop breathing", who he continually calls childish or obscene names and who he tries to intimidate at every opportunity....

What a bloody hypocrite.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 08:54 AM

Musket, I recently linked to Guardian piece about "Christian Persecution" and quotes of a Labour shadow minister talking about the same, so please do not pretend it is only me who thinks there is an issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: bobad
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 08:39 AM

Facts are anathema to idealogues.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 08:32 AM

How does one compare the provenance of a website with the assertion of a Mudcat member?

I know I keep harping on about it, but those with an agenda as opposed to being objective tend to be the ones who feel the need to back up their comments with links to someone who agrees with them.

I see so called facts on many websites, some even government ones, that don't exactly tell it as it is where I have knowledge, so Keith's rather juvenile attempts to stifle debate by clinging onto subjective snippets doesn't exactly encourage debate..

But there again, his point that people are being persecuted purely due to interpretations of old books rather than more temporal reasons doesn't encourage debate either, just point and laugh.

And I can do that by watching clowns throw custard pies at each other.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Dec 13 - 02:26 AM

Not true Troub.
If I have missed one, tell me and I will supply.
Greg, I take that as a "no."

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Troubadour
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 07:14 PM

"It is not usual to make up quotes from non-existent websites as you have just done!"

So that's why you don't supply sources for you more outrageous cut 'n pastes!

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 06:33 PM

Are you aware of any?

Jesus wept.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Elmore
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 06:16 PM

When the Christians here in the mountains of North Georgia (USA) found out I was a Unitarian, they burned a question mark on my lawn.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 01:31 PM

The school kids chopped up and fed to pigs WAS a lie.
The "quote" from a non-existent site WAS a lie.
Saying I called others liar within 36 hours WAS a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 12:45 PM

Aye. The Christians here happily persecute gay people. Keith does his bit by throwing smear and shit about when anyone challenges homophobia.



Fight the good fight with all thy might!

Onward Christian soldiers!

But don't mention Christianism. He reckons only Islamism is a word connected with suppression and terror. If you quote Dr Omar Khan, he claims he doesn't exist.... Nor indeed any particular council of mosques.

I must admit, it is getting boring now. I tried debate and was cried down. I tried taking the piss to similar effect.

Not a nice man. Not nice at all. If you try saying anything, make sure it is said also by others, preferably on the first hit of a google search, as he will go looking so he can take it out of context and attack you. If he can't find it in 5 secs flat, he will call you a liar.

So if you use your own words, be prepared to be branded a liar.

Me? I will continue to use idle moments to point at his arse. Debating with him is no longer an option.

Oh, asking him to give Nigel your regards sometimes gets a reaction, if that floats anyone's boat. He has a couple of mates who goad him on too. I just can't work out whether they are helping or stoking the fire. Amusing either way.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 12:36 PM

Of course they should be brought to book.
Persecution is abhorrent whoever does it.
Are you aware of any?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 12:33 PM

persecution of Christians should be treated in the same way as anti-Semitism or Islamophobia.



Sure thing, Keith - just so soon as "Christians"[sic] who persecute others are brought to book as well.

But I'm not holding my breath, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Dec 13 - 02:02 AM

Daily Telegraph, 23rd December

Labour should not be afraid to 'do God' in order to stop the persecution of Middle East Christians says shadow foreign secretary.

"Across the world, there will be Christians this week for whom attending a church service this Christmas is not an act of faithful witness, but an act of life-risking bravery. That cannot be right and we need the courage to say so," Mr Alexander says.

He adds: "People of all faiths and none should be horrified by this persecution. We cannot, and we must not, stand by on the other side in silence for fear of offence."
Mr Alexander says persecution of Christians should be treated in the same way as anti-Semitism or Islamophobia.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/10532775/Labour-We-must-do-God-to-fight-anti-Christian-persecution.html

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 11:25 AM

It was a quote.
The quote is still on the site and I linked to it to prove it.
I will link again if you like.
I have no affiliation or even loyalty to any party.
The spokesperson I quoted said "we" in his quote.

You know all this from months ago.
How desperate you are to smear me!
Your problem is, like everyone except you and a couple of mates, i would not dream of lying just to win some point here.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 11:10 AM

Circular. I mentioned it. Up to you whether you want to weave it into your ordered view of the world according to Keith A Hole of Hertford.

Just don't call me a liar. You get confused. You are the one who posts that he is right wing and refers to far right political organisations as "we."

And then screams liar when I mention it.

And then claims he was quoting when I find it and post it.

Yet no quotes, no commentary, no nothing other than the post itself.

Is this why you seek to put me down without cause? Is it that I had you weighed up and exposed you? Bit of a bugger because many have before me and those that can be arsed still are. I had a good laugh at you on the Israel thread. No point in joining in, you are spinning in ever decreasing circles without any help.

Give my regards to Nigel.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 11:00 AM

There is no place for lies on a forum like this.
That incident of chopping up school kids and feeding them to pigs never happened.
What else to call it but a lie?

That quote from "The Council of Mosques" was never made by anyone except you.
What else to call it but a lie?

I did not scream?
I first asked for verification, but you can not verify a lie.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 08:23 AM

Would you? You appear to he programmed to emphasise when the victims are classified as Christian communities but ignore when they are classed as Muslim ones. It is difficult to read your spluttering crap on Israel and keep a straight face as it is.

You have form. You also scream liar! When anyone, not just me, points out something that questions your stance.

Ignorant bullies get found out eventually.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 05:34 AM

Musket, if that incident had ever happened, it would not just be heard once on the radio.
Like MtheGM, I have no memory of it, and I would remember such a thing.
Not one of the news sites has such a story.
You are lying.
That incident never happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 03:58 AM

I'm distressed too.

Although that's nothing to my disappointment to read Keith's assertion that it never happened. Obviously, BBC PM Reports just spin porkies on the assumption I might hear it.

It wasn't those identified as Christian so he disregards it and uses his usual taunt of liar. His colours pop out all the more often. Which is good, because he might otherwise be taken seriously.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 03:42 AM

Musket: My point regarding the use or non-use of machetes was specifically in response to Greg's equivalence of Southern US Christian Fundamendalists to Islamists: in particular those British Islamist converts of Nigerian extraction who carved up Fusilier Rigby. I have nothing to adduce in defence of the Nigerian incident you cite, of which I had not previously heard and am much distressed to learn of.

~M~

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 03:09 AM

The example you gave from Nigeria was fictitious.
You invented it, like you just invented the quote from a non-existent website.
Do you even know the difference between truth and lies?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 28 Dec 13 - 03:01 AM

Why do those who behead in the name of Allah get associated with machetes but those who do so on the name of Jesus don't?

I don't quite get your point Michael?

I gave an example from a while back of Nigerian terrorists claiming to be Christians attacking a Muslim community. As they were reported as chopping up people, children included, I reckon associating such weapons with one type of oppressor using religion as a tool and not acknowledging others is something I expect from idealistic fools such as Keith, not you.




Oy Keith! I enjoyed Greg's poetry quote at you in the revision of history thread. I reckon poetry is useful too. Dylan Thomas explains why you call everyone liars whilst pretending to research every word others use so you can find the slightest ambiguity.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see."

If you would be so kind as to ensure I quoted the correct line, you see, those who come to debate rather than play google top trumps tend to work mainly from memory and doubt I have read that line in 30 years.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 06:52 PM

Don't be too hard of Ian folks...everybody knows he loves his OCLD.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 05:26 PM

in the sense that it is no answer to any obnoxious abuse to cite another just as bad

And vice versa, re: Christian v. Muslim, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 03:12 PM

"Christianists don't really need machetes to impose Biblical Law."

>< ><

Quite; but Islamists appear to, don't they?

Thank You.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 03:08 PM

Greg ~~ I do genuinely take your points, re KKK & Southern persecutions in supposed name of Xtn values. Of course it is deplorable. But it is, surely, simply whataboutery, in the sense that it is no answer to any obnoxious abuse to cite another just as bad* as if it made the first one somehow OK. It what way do you perceive it as doing so? In what way does the fact that Southern trees bore strange fruit make it any the less iniquitous for adultresses to have melon-size stones crashed down at point-blank range on their buried-up-to-the-neck heads in the streets of Riyadh, or for teenage girls to be publicly thrashed 100+ strokes with canes on the bare buttocks for the terrible crime of having been raped & so become impure? And if it doesn't make it any less so, then why mention it? Hitler [Oh shut up, Mr Godwin!] smells no retrospectively sweeter just because Stalin killed more people, does he?

~M~

*...though numerically smaller (which does matter: think of the Hegelian concept of the critical point at which a quantative becomes a qualitative difference), less legally approved or tolerated, and far less liable to occur right now, unlike those incidents in Syria & Yemen & N Nigeria which are perfectly possibly being enacted at this very moment as you read this...

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 12:30 PM

Well ~M~, first of all, read up on your recent U.S. history & the governors and legislatures of an increasing number of U.S. States. Then check the Congressional record, for the speaches of the TeaPublican "Christian"[sic] Senators and Representaives.

By the way, how many women have died of botched abortions because safe, legal ones weren't available?

How many black folks have been lynched, burned at the stake, castrated or simply shot or beaten to death by the proudly white "Christian"[sic] Ku Klux Klan and other "Christian"[sic] white supremecist groups? (Hint: best re-think your "Little Rock or Nashville comment")

How many Lesbian/Gay/TransGender teens have committed suicide due to persecution by ""Christians"[sic]?

Hardly "whataboutery" - simply some unpleasant truths.

How many impressionable children are being taught Creationist garbage in the guise of fact and never realize that there are serious consequences to believing nonsense?

Christianists don't really need machetes to impose Biblical Law.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 12:25 PM

Do you think it reasonable and acceptable to lie and make shit up just for some advantage in debate?
Is that the only way to make your views stand up?
Your views must be shit.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 12:16 PM

Buggered and flawed from the first sentence. You do play google top trumps which is why I stopped debating seriously with you a long time ago.

The rest of your post gave me a giggle though, thanks.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 11:45 AM

I do not play "google top trumps" but it is usual to provide a link to a quote, so it can be seen in context.

It is not usual to make up quotes from non-existent websites as you have just done!

But then Musket, it is not usual for a normal person to think they know more about meaning and usage than OED!
Or think they are better informed than the Council of Europe!
Or think they know more about History than historians!
Or make up Christian atrocities and think no-one will notice.
Or make up anti Christian propaganda about Uganda and hope no-one will notice.

What an ignorant, stupid fool you are Musket.

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 10:39 AM

Much bigger ladies Michael.

I live near Doncaster.

Mind you, not all of them could be described as ladies. Nor indeed I a gent.

As to firmness, I'd say firm beforehand, softening when in the company of an Adonis such as what I is.

All that research bollocks was for Keith A Hole of Hertford, not you. Generally, you have confidence of your own intellect when debating, rather than playing google top trumps.

In fact, I don't think I've enjoyed a debate with you lately. You seem to have found egging on pillocks a more satisfactory game. Can't blame you, I chuckle at his attempts to make me look a bigger arse than I am, which takes some doing. Nothing soft there though, tight as a duck's. *

Your cheerleading is somewhat a distraction I suppose. If you can think of any subject you wish me to weave in, please do ask. I enjoy pompous sanctimony to be fair, and Keith is one of those part time Christians who manage to excel in the art. If we ran a Noël Coward tangent I suppose, but avoid Princess Di? Plenty there for normal people to discuss and oddballs to google.



*(Apart from those ducks with holes through their middle. What are they cal...? Oh yes, that's it. Henry Moorhens.)

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 10:29 AM

And then of course there are the Christianists working to impose Biblical Law, outlaw abortion, criminalize same-sex relationships, promote "Creationism" &c. &c., and taking over governing bodies across the globe, & of particular note in the Southern U.S. of A.
.,,.

How many 'governing bodies' have they 'taken over across the globe', then Greg? How many soldiers' heads have they hacked off with machetes in the streets of Little Rock or Nashville because that's what Jesus told them to do?

Just asking...

~M~

"Whataboutery", I always call that sort of argument: infallible identifier of a fool who wouldn't know a real argument if it kicked him in the goolies with hobnailed boots...

Subject: RE: BS: Christian Persecution
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 27 Dec 13 - 10:14 AM

Well Musket, Google can only find that quote in your post, not "from The Council of Mosques website. " or any other.
Anyway, there are many councils of mosques, no "The" Council of Mosques.

If you have not made the whole thing up, use your wonderful "academic research" search engine to find it and give us a link.

Will you come up with an excuse not to?
Good luck with that.
Fool.