BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 Apr 13 - 08:34 PM

Sailor Jack's a Christian. Ha ha !

Sailor Jack's no Christian. He's just brought Christianity into total disrepute by posting hatred on a new thread. I predict a long period of embarrassed non-support from real Christians. Ugh.

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 06:35 AM

been away over easter.
ebbie - i am not disrepecting anyone ,at least not itntentionally.but neither am i gonna be pedantic over grammer when i am not a fast typer.yes i do use capitals when i refer to God,and you will have to indulge me if i dont put you in the same category!
it somewhat amuses me that i am charged with rudeness,while other posters [mostly atheist but excepting bill] spue out vulgarity,insults and profanity by the bucketload.
if this explanation is not to your satisfaction, i suggest you ignore ignore my posts - i shall not be offended in the least.that is what i do with posts that are truly offensive.
had i capitalized my own name you might have grounds for dissing you by ommittimg capitals .

jack- you made me smile again.while i think the accusation against you is unfounded re insiting hatred, you do disrepect steve,though im sure you can make a case for that being deservedly so!

i had the great joy on sunday of witnessing a young woman being baptized who was atheist till last year.i wonder if there is hope yet for mudcat materialists! maybe,,,they are just too hardened.

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 07:45 AM

maybe,,,they are just too hardened.

Well that isn't very Christian of you, is it! Aren't you supposed to be like the shepherd who puts all his energy into restoring his one lost sheep to the flock? You don't do a very good job, I can tell you!

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 08:16 AM

Steve, you must have a very slow car.
The border is about 5 miles from Bude on the Holsworthy road, and being a few miles outside could not put you much further from it.
More likely closer.

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 08:37 AM

""The same goes for churches. You don't have to agree with everything in a given church to stay associated with it. You don't have to agree with every point of its dogma.""

Ah, but the point is that I have looked around and reached a few conclusions, which are:-

1. The Catholic Church didn't want me unless I blithely accepted all its teachings and the same applied to others who were questioning.

When I ask a question, it's because I genuinely want to know the answer, and there were damn few of those, but more than a sufficiency of punishments for not having sufficient faith.

I know there are good people in the Catholic Church I'm not stupid, but, with notable exceptions, they tend to be the ones who can swallow the blurb whole, and get on with being good.

2. I looked at other Churches and absent the pomp and panoply, didn't see sufficient difference.

3. I had always known that I could pray anywhere, so concluded not only that I didn't need a church or a preacher, but that God didn't either.

Q.E.D.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 09:00 AM

""don t - i see you went straight to the primary source to dis sarfati - not!.that link to " debate" does you no credit at all.""

I went to Wikipedia, which I know, can be inaccurate, but can easily be straightened out by the person himself. The fact that he has failed to take any such action rather suggests that he has no answer.

On numerous occasions I have seen people complain of inaccuracy, when they didn't like or agree with what was posted.

The link, I didn't watch! Merely pointed out that apparently there was a debate. I was too busy organising a four day Folk & Ale to do more.

Perhaps you will tell me what was wrong with that.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 09:15 AM

The border is about 5 miles from Bude on the Holsworthy road, and being a few miles outside could not put you much further from it.
More likely closer.

Further. I live on the Camelford side of Bude. And I never use that road. If I'm driving out of Cornwall I always use either the A39 northbound (25 minutes at least to the Woolley turning) or the A39 nine miles south to Otterham Station, turn left, left again at Wilsey Down on the A395, a good few miles over Cold Northcott (lovely views across to Bodmin Moor) to Pipers Pool and shortly thereafter to the eastbound A30. 40 minutes before I get into Devon that way. You have a point, though no-one in their right mind knowingly goes to Holsworthy. Thanks for your interest.

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 10:23 AM

How could my extremely intelligent friend be so close to 100% sure that what he believed was true? Because "It's just something you know deep down, like you know the sky is blue and you need to eat food to live and move your legs to walk."

Then how can so many people not believe?

"I don't know. Maybe they've deliberately suppressed their faith so they can do whatever they feel like. Maybe they're misusing reason to justify their own sinning. They've been doing it for so long they've forgotten how they started."

What about Muslims and Jews and others? "Any religion that teaches a sound morality may be better than none in the eyes of God. But way deep down non-Christians may know they're in error, that their religions are at best incomplete. I can't really answer the question."

Is the bible literally true? "What's obviously meant to be literally true is literally true. What's meant to be symbolic is symbolically
true. Humans wrote it, so even though God directed them in general it isn't perfect. The crucial things like the Ten Commandments and the Resurrection are absolutely true."

Did God hand Moses the Commandments carved on stone tablets? "I don't know. I wasn't there. He could have if he wanted to. He's God. Or he could have just inspired Moses."

How about Noah's ark? "I wasn't there. I wouldn't take the story literally, but symbolically it's true." What does it symbolize? "God ultimately punishes the wicked and saves the good."

Do you believe in evolution? "Sure I do." Why? "There's too much scientific evidence not to, and I don't see how it really conflicts with any crucial teachings."   

What about people who think it does? "They're wrong."

I believe that my friend is more or less typical of serious, church-going Christians.

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 11:04 AM

""i had the great joy on sunday of witnessing a young woman being baptized who was atheist till last year.i wonder if there is hope yet for mudcat materialists! maybe,,,they are just too hardened.""

1. Don't make assumptions! The opposite of Creationist is not Materialist, whatever you may think.

2. I strongly suspect that if you scratched a Materialist with a YEC Creationist, its the Materialist who would be damaged, as probably would a diamond.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 06:02 AM

well steve,the bible does describe certain people that so harden their hearts that they put themselves beyond repentance and the judgment of God confirms them in that state.of course we dont know who they are and dont give up.

don t thankyou for conceding that you posted a misleading,vulgar,crude voiceover link which was not a "debate",inadvertantly because you were to busy to check what you posted.nothing wrong with that i suppose.we all make mistakes.
pete.

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 06:39 PM

""don t thankyou for conceding that you posted a misleading,vulgar,crude voiceover link which was not a "debate",inadvertantly because you were to busy to check what you posted.nothing wrong with that i suppose.we all make mistakes.""

Call me a pedant, but I don't recall conceding anything of the sort. Had I looked at it I might have conceded what you said.

All I did was to state that I hadn't looked at it.

Make of that whatever you like, but not by putting words in my mouth that never came from it.

Incidentally, being laid fairly low by a throat infection, which is playing hell with my emphysema, I still haven't looked at it.

Don T.

PS. You really must try to establish some connection, however tenuous, with the English language.

Subject: RE: BS: What is 'Heaven and Hell'?
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 04:04 PM

we have established what happened ,and we can see that dawkins did not debate safarti.you posted link without realizing the content.as i originally said,- dawkins dont debate creationists[unless they are not qualified scientists]
wishing you a speedy recovery.pete.