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No man's land protest

DigiTrad:
NO MAN'S LAND
NO MAN'S LAND (3)
NOBODY'S MOGGY'S LAND (No Moggy's Land)
WILLIE MCBRIDE'S REPLY


Related threads:
Lyr Req: The green fields of France (39)
Lyr Req: Green fields of france PARODY (27)
No Man's Land/willie McBride-rap version? (89)
Info: No Man's Land (Eric Bogle) (46)
Lyr Req: Willie MacBride's Answer to Finbar Furey (11)
Greenfields of France parody... (34)
Alternative lyrics to 'Willie McBride -Flower (7)
Green Fields of France (48)
Lyr Req: Green Fields of France Parody (14)
Lyr/Chords Req: Green Fields of France (Engli (26)
Lyr/Chords Req: No Man's Land (15)
Lyr Req: Parody on Green Fields of France (26)
Lyr Req: Willy Mc Bride (41)
Lyr Req: Willie McBride (Parody) (6)
(origins) Green Fields of France (10)
Lyr Req: Green Fields of France^^^ (22)
Lyr Req: Willie Mc Bride's OTHER reply (2)
Lyr/Chords Req: green fields of france (4)
Lyr Req: no man's land parody (3)
Lyr Add: Willie McBride parody - new chorus (5)
Lyr Add: Not Willie McBride (7)
Lyr Add: The Green Fields of France (12)
Lyr Req: Parody of Willie McBride (21)
Lyr Req: Parody of Green Fields of France (5)
Lyr Req: Willie McBride / No Man's Land (5) (closed)
Chords for The Green Fields of France/No Mans (3)


GUEST,Raggytash 07 Nov 14 - 07:42 AM
GUEST,Howard Jones 07 Nov 14 - 07:36 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 07 Nov 14 - 07:30 AM
GUEST,Daisy belle 07 Nov 14 - 07:16 AM
GUEST,Rahere 07 Nov 14 - 06:47 AM
GUEST 07 Nov 14 - 06:18 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 07 Nov 14 - 06:10 AM
Bounty Hound 07 Nov 14 - 05:55 AM
Musket 07 Nov 14 - 05:47 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 07 Nov 14 - 05:32 AM
Bounty Hound 07 Nov 14 - 05:29 AM
Keith A of Hertford 07 Nov 14 - 04:46 AM
GUEST,DTM 06 Nov 14 - 06:46 PM
Tattie Bogle 06 Nov 14 - 06:34 PM
Bounty Hound 06 Nov 14 - 06:10 PM
Black belt caterpillar wrestler 06 Nov 14 - 05:59 PM
GUEST 06 Nov 14 - 05:54 PM
GUEST,Spleen Cringe 06 Nov 14 - 05:50 PM
GUEST 06 Nov 14 - 05:46 PM
Richard Bridge 06 Nov 14 - 05:44 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 05:44 PM
Pistachio 06 Nov 14 - 05:35 PM
MGM·Lion 06 Nov 14 - 05:23 PM
Musket 06 Nov 14 - 05:22 PM
Bounty Hound 06 Nov 14 - 05:17 PM
MGM·Lion 06 Nov 14 - 05:17 PM
Bounty Hound 06 Nov 14 - 05:14 PM
GUEST,Allan Conn 06 Nov 14 - 05:01 PM
GUEST,Morris-ey 06 Nov 14 - 03:35 PM
GUEST,Fred McCormick 06 Nov 14 - 02:57 PM
G-Force 06 Nov 14 - 01:58 PM
Musket 06 Nov 14 - 01:46 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 01:10 PM
The Sandman 06 Nov 14 - 01:01 PM
Musket 06 Nov 14 - 12:39 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 12:26 PM
The Sandman 06 Nov 14 - 12:17 PM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 12:16 PM
GUEST,Allan Conn 06 Nov 14 - 11:36 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 11:14 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 10:40 AM
Bounty Hound 06 Nov 14 - 10:36 AM
Dennis the Elder 06 Nov 14 - 10:36 AM
MGM·Lion 06 Nov 14 - 10:35 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 06 Nov 14 - 10:30 AM
Anne Lister 06 Nov 14 - 10:26 AM
Musket 06 Nov 14 - 10:19 AM
GUEST,punkfolkrocker 06 Nov 14 - 10:09 AM
Acorn4 06 Nov 14 - 09:56 AM
Richard Bridge 06 Nov 14 - 09:34 AM
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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 07:42 AM

Some years ago I asked Eric Bogle if he was cheesed off by the Fureys version of No Man's Land .......... he said he was ......... until the Royalties started coming in.

Who can blame him, he has to make a living. He's probably one of very few who has made a decent living out of folk music.

I've listened to Joss Stone's version in my opinion it is unadulterated horse droppings and certainly negates the anti war message of the original which I have always considered to be one of the finest of its kind.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Howard Jones
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 07:36 AM

This raises a number of interesting questions.

Firstly, was this the right song for the British Legion to choose in the first place? Did they want an anti-war song? I would guess that a fair number of the professional servicemen and women they now mainly aim to support are not entirely opposed to war in principle, and the same may also have been true of many of those who are now remembered. The opposite of war is often not peace but oppression. Certainly many of my parents' generation who were in WW2 had few doubts that war was justified, and the same seems also to have been true for many of those in WW1. This song represents a modern point of view which may not have been recognised by those who it is about.

Secondly, did BL deliberately edit the song to alter its message, or was this a crass decision made during the process of rehearsing and recording? Either way, whether or not it was legal to do this without the consent of the writer was it morally justifiable to do so?

I am astonished that in the accompanying 'behind the scenes' video Joss Stone talks about respecting the integrity of the song. It makes me wonder whether she'd even seen the full lyrics or was just presented with the truncated version.

i'm not quite sure what the edited version is trying to say. The tone seems to me quite inappropriate for what has become a simple requiem for a individual soldier. However I suppose a lot of people will buy it, whether to support the BL or because they like the sound, perhaps without thinking too much about what it is saying.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 07:30 AM

Fair enough that one shouldn't expect the Legion to be anti-war but if that is the case then one can criticize them for taking a top anti war anthem and twisting the meaning!


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Daisy belle
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 07:16 AM

Surely this was a missed opportunity to expose the futility and stupidity of war? In the words of another songwriter "When will they ever learn? I would suggest that anyone who wants to know what it was really like and what motivated young people at the time reads Vera Brittain's autobiographical novel "Testament of Youth".


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Rahere
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 06:47 AM

Eric's probably right, the pipsqueaks don't deserve the attention. Next time the lesson for anyone writing something is to pull no punches, and in the mean time, perhaps Eric will confirm that he actually gets some royalties from it, as he's not credited on the RBL YouTube thread, only further down as it being a "cover" of his work.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 06:18 AM

You can hardly expect the RBL to be anti-war, basically it's a welfare organisation for ex-members of the military. It remembers the First World War because that was the spur to its formation and much of its resources have been used supporting those who fought in it as well as those who served later. It is neither for nor against the wars but for the well-being of its members.

And it is a difficult situation. Imagine that you were in a Syrian town being attacked by ISIS and that you are aware that if the town falls the men will be slaughtered, the children taken away to be brought up by the ISIS fighters and the women sold into slavery, would you take a gun and fight if you were offered the chance or would you surrender and take the consequences?


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 06:10 AM

All I 'know' about my family's role in WW1 is from what little I was told as a child.

My Nan lost a brother at Passchendaele.
Her father, my great grandad, was somewhere over there in his 40s. He got wounded by shrapnel.

I haven't a clue if either 'volunteered'.

Grandad - my dad's father - may have been in the horse artillery,
By my rough calculation, he must have been well in his 30s...
Again, no idea if he was a 'volunteer' ???


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 05:55 AM

Fair point PFR, just looked for some figures and there were more conscripts than volunteers.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Musket
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 05:47 AM

Tattie Bogle. "If Joss Stone feels so strongly about singing an anti war song, let her write her own."

Or alternatively, let anyone sing anybody's song? Are you only saying only Eric Bogle should sing it? I do deplore the decision by BL to leave out the important message of the final verse, but surely any singer can sing any song?   I was asked to sing it lastt week, being the nearest folk club night to remembrance Sunday at a local club. Should I have sung something I wrote instead? Regardless of whether I could do the subject justice?

What an odd comment?


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 05:32 AM

All very fine discussing 'duty' - let's not forget about conscription...


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 05:29 AM

Keith, I don't think we are really disagreeing here, and you are of course correct that duty meant something to the people of those times.

I'm absolutely certain that when Eric Bogle posed the question in the song he was not suggesting for one minute that they were just 'fools to stupid to understand' but asking whether they were there just out of a sense of duty.

John


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Nov 14 - 04:46 AM

John Bounty Hound.
It was not about obscure politics.
UK would not have been involved if it was about Archdukes and the Balkans.

Duty meant something to the people of those times.
We were duty bound to defend Belgium when it was invaded.
We had a treaty.
People were outraged by the atrocities committed in Belgium and every reason to believe that we would be next..
They felt with justification they were fighting to defend Britain.
Everyone had a basic education and access to a free press.
They were not just fools too stupid to "understand when they told you the cause"


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 06:46 PM

Originally a great song but done to death - sorry folks, no pun intended.

Everytime someone at a session starts singing "No Man's Land" or "And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda" my heart sinks and I think, oh god, not AGAIN.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 06:34 PM

Eric's last sentence in the fRoots article is extraordinarily generous and restrained.
Having now listened to the Joss Stone version (previously having wondered what was so awful that yet another petition had to be started - yes I also suffer "petition fatigue") - it's a massacre of the original song. I've never been comfortable with the Furey's version: only Eric's and a very few other people's singing of it "do it" for me.
It's one of those songs that so often get murdered in sessions, and have you thinking "oh no not that again" - unless it is done really well, in which case, yes, the tissues come out. If Joss Stone felt so strongly about doing an anti-war song, let her write her own and not tamer with such a well-written, well constructed, heart-felt song as Eric's.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 06:10 PM

Michael, sorry, I missed that one :)


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:59 PM

Speaking as someone who is anti-war, without any affiliation to any organisation, the affair seems to show the British Legion in a light that marks them as not anti-war.
And after a brief search on the internet I find results which reinforce this with some of their previous historic decisions, for example refusing to change the wording cast into their poppy central sections to show a message requesting an end to war.
I applaud Eric Bogle for his composition and regret that this new rendition will not reflect his intended message.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:54 PM

My favourite is The Men They Couldn't Hang's version too. It was the first I heard and I never realised it was a folk song.

But aren't we being a bit precious here. Folk song developed because people heard songs and sang their own versions. Words were changed, verses added, verses subtracted.

I haven't heard the new version but presumably it's going to mean that a number of people hear the original version anyway when they wouldn't have otherwise.

Mt father was a conchie, I expect that his father was too (although his brothers weren't) and on my mother's side they were working in the pits anyway but even with my background and views I think that we ought to acknowledge that different people from the First World War would have had different ideas about it anyway. If we just assume that everyone was against the war then we do many of the military a disservice. They may have preferred not to fight but they also thought that it was right that they did so.

On a totally different tack, this is the best video accompanying a song about the war that I've seen

John Tams - Scarecrow


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Spleen Cringe
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:50 PM

With you on Jeff Beck, PFR - but he should have retired gracefully in about 1972...


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:46 PM

STW are coming from a clear anti-war perspective and very clear that they object to the increasing levels of jingoism attached to remembrance. Fair enough point as far as I'm concerned. We all have axes to grind and the world would be a duller place if we didn't grind them. To be appalled by the loss of life in capitalist wars doesn't make you a bad person; for the Legion to be associated with an anti-war song is no bad thing. No-one, surely, wants wars - and to glorify them is pretty psychopathic. So as far as I'm concerned it wouldn't have harmed them to do the song properly - might have even done them a favour. Personally I won't wear a poppy, because I don't like what it's come to symbolise: it seems it's less 'lest we forget' as 'we have forgotten - business as usual'.

Meanwhile, loved your Youtube clip Dick. How about putting up a new recording of the Rebel Soldier? - one of your finest moments in my book...


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:44 PM

Please see S. 80- CDPA 1988 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/part/I/chapter/IV

What I do not know is whether Bogle has signed a waiver under S. 87 (ibid).


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:44 PM

...anyway... enough about Joss Stone....

It's Jeff Beck... only Jeff bleedin Yardbirds Beck...

How many snobby folkies have ever managed anything anyway near as good as
"Shapes of Things" and "Over Under Sideways Down"

Or ever influenced as many other musicians


Jeff legendary pioneer of the glorious TONEBENDER fuzzbox Beck...


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Pistachio
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:35 PM

I too would like the Legion to make a lot of money - but I'd like (even having read Eric's own comments)the general public to know that what's happened is akin to someone rewriting John Lennon's 'Imagine' and putting it out there without remaining true to the sentiment nor singing a style that's sympathetic to the original.                Yes, there's the 'folk process' - with different interpretations - but not butchering and wailing (by some accounts). I do admit, for my own reasons, I do not plan to listen to the JS version.       Hopefully Eric will receive a good return too.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:23 PM

John: I did say that, more or less, a few posts back - 1035 am.

Best

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Musket
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:22 PM

Whilst the pedants are out, she's a soul singer, if we must use irrelevant terms of genre.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:17 PM

That's 'LOTS' of course!


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:17 PM

@ G-Force

JOSS STONE

Birth name         Jocelyn Eve Stoker
Born         11 April 1987 (age 27)
Dover, Kent, England

Wikipedia


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:14 PM

Eric Bogle does actually make the point that no-one has yet said, that this version will have far more commercial appeal, and that of course is the whole point of the recording.

There would be little point in the Legion publishing a 'folkie' version to a limited audience, hence the reason for this version.

As I said earlier, I don't like it, but I hope it makes the Legion lost of money.

John


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 05:01 PM

I didn't mean to suggest that Fred. I imagine her heart may very well be in the right place. It was just another poster said it may have done for maximising sales. If that was the case then Adele, Emile Sande or that red haired guy (name slips by) would have been far more likely to make it a hit


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Morris-ey
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 03:35 PM

What Eric bogle wrote in its entirety via fRoots:

Apparently Joss Stone's version of my song "No Man's Land" has polarised opinions. I usually don't comment publicly on other people's versions of my songs, but many of you have e-mailed me about this matter and seem genuinely upset about it, so I am sending you the following in reply to some of the questions I have been asked………please note that I will be entering into no further correspondence regarding this matter, I don't want to spend the rest of my life e-mailing on my computer, so you will have to accept (or reject ) what I have said below and leave it there…….! ! The copyright for "No Man's Land/The Green Fields of France" is held by my UK Publisher,! Domino Publishing, who are ultimately responsible for approving applications to record this song. When an artist wishes to record "No Man's Land" they must apply for a mechanical license to do so from the relevant UK agency, and pay a licensing fee. Permission to record is more or less automatic, especially if, as is the case with this song, it has been recorded before. At no stage in this process am I, the composer, involved. Generally speaking, the first I know of any new recording is when I see any subsequent royalties from the recording appearing on my royalty statements. ! !
When the artist(s) in question records the cover version of the song, they can, and often do, rework ! the song as to be almost unrecognisable from the original version. This is especially true in Jazz music, and is generally regarded as an acceptable creative exercise by the artist(s). Although! the publisher and/or composer could take legal action if they feel that the original essence of the song has been irrevocably altered and very much to the song's detriment, this very rarely happens. The bottom line is that so long as royalties are paid, any wounded artistic feelings are usually put aside.! !
So then, to the most asked questions about this affair:! !!
Was my permission sought when they decided to record this song? - No! !!
Did I know what they proposed to do with the song when they decided to record it? - No! !!
Do I approve of what they have done to the song ? (missing verses, rock'n'roll arrangement, etc) !
No, believe it or not I wrote the song intending for the four verses of the original song to gradually build up to what I hoped would be a climactic and strong anti-war statement. Missing out two and a half verses from the original four verses very much negates that intention. As to the musical arrangement, it's really about whatever floats your musical boat. I would have thought a strong mostly acoustic version would have done a better job of getting the message across, but that's just my personal preference, and I'm a bit of an old fart folkie. But then to do an acoustic version and include all four verses and choruses would have made the song nearly 7 minutes long, making it of doubtful commercial appeal in today's modern music market, given that the average attention span of that market's consumers is rarely more than three minutes or so. There's not much doubt that the shortened, up-tempo, bluesy version that Joss does will probably appeal to a much broader cross-section of the listening public, certainly to those who did not know the song existed until they heard Joss's version. ! !
Is the strong anti-war message in the original song diminished in this recording? Yes, missing some crucial verses does not help. But then this diminishment is only in the eyes (or ears) of people who have heard the original version of the song. Those who have not heard the original cannot make the same comparisons or judgements. They must take Joss's version on it's own merits and make their own interpretation. ! !
Does it follow then that this version glorifies war instead of condemning it? - No, in my opinion it certainly doesn't glorify it, but doesn't condemn it either, it just sort of starts off promisingly enough and then turns into a sing- along chorus type of song. Sentimentalising perhaps, but not glorifying.! !!
Will me or my publisher be suing Joss Stone, Jeff Beck or the British Legion? — No, you have to be joking. I would have wished for a version of my song that could have been more true to my original intention in writing the song, but if Joss's version touches heart or two here and there and makes some people reflect, perhaps for the first time, on the true price of war, then her version is as valid as anyone else's."


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 02:57 PM

Allan Conn. Not being a pop enthusiast, the name of Joss Stone doesn't mean very much to me beyond the fact (I think) that she was the subject of an abduction attempt not all that long ago.

However, the news that she hasn't had a hit since the devil knows when is interesting. Do I hear the cynical sounds of someone desperately trying to revive a flagging career?


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: G-Force
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 01:58 PM

I thought she came from Devon, not Dover.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Musket
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 01:46 PM

I don't think they do. Part of me is with punkfolkrocker here.

Many seem to be confusing the sacrilige of buggering about with the message of a wonderful song with their pro or anti whatever political thoughts.

It is a song. No more, no less. I too would prefer it to include the final verse, but we can't have old soldiers thinking their mates died for fuck all, now can we?


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 01:10 PM

my reservation about this petition is I consider it's exploiting the song merely as a vehicle
for having an attack againt the institution of the Brit Legion.

I'm not convinced STW coalition really give a monkeys about music or songwriters...???


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 01:01 PM

punk folk rocker, not yet.anyway Ithink we should all sign the petition because it will do a number of things, draw attention to the missing verse and publicise a modern folk song.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Musket
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 12:39 PM

Whatever, Joss Stone has one of those bluesy voices that I can listen to all day, (and have done...) whatever the rights wrongs and indifferences of this topic, her quality and talent in her musical genre is one of the most exciting I have had the pleasure to listen to.

Lets not throw the baby out with the bath water here.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 12:26 PM

Dick - I really like that.
I much prefere reeds to acoustic guitar 'folk' solo accompaniments.

Have you had a similar go at "No man's land", posted anywhere ?


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: The Sandman
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 12:17 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ5xZQVkhak another anti war song with words altered


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 12:16 PM

The bagpipes and drums version nagging my memory, might have been a police or military funeral scene from a movie,
or perhaps this..Dropkick Murphys - The Green Fields of France ???

which is not too bad a version...


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 11:36 AM

If they wanted to maximise single sales then Joss Stone seems a poor choice. According to her discography on wiki her last single to hit the charts at all was in 2007 and that only got to number 84. She's since had 11 releases none of which even made the top 100.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 11:14 AM

June Tabor - She is good, sombre and minimalist.. best so far..

Men They Couldn't Hang - in the right direction, but over prettified guitars / mando ?..

Structurally, It's a long song, so maybe difficult to sustain a recorded arrangement
without lapsing into paint by numbers instrumental filler...???

The quest is on to find the best recording as far away from MOR and Brian and Michael style folk production as possible..

Actually, the Brass Band in "Matchstalk men and matchstalk cats and dogs"
might be a good starting point for an arrangement of "No man's land" I'd like...???


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:40 AM

I've read that the earlier "The Unfortunate Rake" is a dying syphilitic soldier song..

Dunno how many poppies that would sell...???

Thanks, I'm off to google the June Tabor version...


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Bounty Hound
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:36 AM

The Men They Couldn't Hang did a good version of it PFR, this might be more up your street? Men They Couldn't Hang

And Keith, When you consider the numbers who signed up under age, the huge jingoistic enlistment campaigns, peer pressure (white feathers etc etc) and the fact that some of the politics behind it all are still not clear to this day, I still think the question posed in the song as to what those boy soldiers believed is a very valid one.

My Grandfather lost his sight in a gas attack and was sent home, I never met him as he had died before I was born, but I'm told he considered himself one of the lucky ones, as he came home, and when asked why he went, all he would say is it was his duty and he had to.

John


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Dennis the Elder
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:36 AM

Sorry punkfolkrocker but I do not agree with your opinion regarding Eric Bogles song and version. To me Eric sings it as he intended, when he wrote it, with a strong message at the end in order to counter those who glorify war.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:35 AM

Another of these English singers -- I gather she comes from Dover -- for some reason incapable of singing except with that odd sort of cod-American accent called 'mid-Atlantic', which I always find super-depressing {I even OPd a thread about it a way back}, even tho one of my best friends, the pop-singer-songwriter Marcie Mycroft, points out that it's just the way songs like hers are sung. This admittedly isn't a song of that sort, & Ms Stone, tho doubtless talented in her own way & genre, seems to me a poor choice to perform it on the part of the BL. There must surely be more suitable English or Scottish singers capable of singing in their own accent who would have made a better choice. OTOH, they presumably want to maximise profits for their excellent cause, and reckoned from a biz POV that a singer as popular as JS, singing in the way that the record-buying public expects such singers to sing, should aid in this. I fear they may be right, at that.

Is one's priority to be with taste or with profit for good cause? Not a simple one to answer, it seems to me.

≈M≈


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:30 AM

I like June Tabor's version of "No Man's Land". Isn't "Laredo" itself just a variant too. Both songs stemming from "The Unfortunate Rake". Not that it matters they can all be judged on their own merits.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Anne Lister
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:26 AM

I'm a bit jaded with petitions, myself, as they seem to be rife on Facebook for absolutely everything these days. So I'm writing directly to the head of PR at the British Legion (a Becky Warren) to express my point of view that the version they're sponsoring has altered the song to the point of removing its central message. I have in my time been a poppy seller and I have also recently written a song (using the "dulce et decorum est" quote, as it happens, as used by Wilfred Owen) inspired by a National Theatre of Wales production about the Somme called Mametz. My song was also inspired by hearing a survivor from WWII describing his own revulsion to great parades and processions to commemorate the start of WWI. We can honour the soldiers who died without sanitising or glorifying the war they died in.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Musket
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:19 AM

I bow to Bridge on such matters, but to borrow and totally change the intention of the thrust of the song sounds more like plagiarism than claiming it to be the same song?

I doubt the new "parody" clause would cover them?


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 10:09 AM

I've just listened to The Fureys with Davey Arthur's version.

That's not much better either... easy listening MOR 'folk music' productions.....



I've now got a niggly notion in my head that I've heard a much more stirring version of this song, or one of the 'Laredo' variants,

with an emotionally charged 'ironic' backing from a rousing 'military' bagpipe and drums marching band...???


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Acorn4
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 09:56 AM

I seem to be in the minority in that I don't particularly like the song that much, but that's the way it goes I suppose.

I have nonetheless signed the petition on the grounds of perverting the intentions of the writer, and dumbing down/sanitising the effect.


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Subject: RE: No man's land protest
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 14 - 09:34 AM

I'm pretty sure that PRS/MCPS do not have power to license material changes to the works in its repertoire so there may very well be an issue of whether the version is indeed licit.

Keith, we know you like war.


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