BS: Brexit & other UK political topics

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 02 Mar 22 - 04:57 PM

Hilary Benn makes speeches, Corbyn just waffles drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Mar 22 - 05:29 PM

More incisive argument from Bonzo

Still no justification for the incompetence and corruption of the current administration though

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 02:17 AM

From The Guardian

String of Lords defeats reflects concerns over PM and legislation

"In the aftermath of Boris Johnson’s landslide 2019 general election win, many assumed the political balance within the House of Lords had swung squarely behind the Conservatives after a decade of ennoblements by Tory prime ministers.

David Cameron and Theresa May had between them elevated 136 Conservatives to the upper chamber over the proceeding nine years. By November 2021, Johnson had ennobled 83 people to become life peers, 42 of whom are Conservatives, while many others were fellow Brexit supporters.

And so what has followed has been a surprise. Official figures show that in Johnson’s first parliamentary session from December 2019 to March 2021, the Lords defeated the government on 114 occasions. This is the highest number of defeats in a single parliamentary session since Harold Wilson’s government in 1975-76 was defeated 126 times.

On Monday, the policies at the heart of the Johnson government’s nationality and borders bill were defeated in the Lords on five occasions.

The vote removed a key plank of the bill, known as clause 11, which would have stripped refugees arriving here via irregular routes of full rights such as a right to a family reunion and access to a public safety net. Peers voted by 204 to 126, defeating the clause by a majority of 78."

And

"There is also concern on the red benches that there is a tendency for ministers to make laws that are constructed to avoid line-by-line scrutiny.

Two Lords reports issued in November, one entitled Government by Diktat and the other Democracy Denied, warned that bills often provided only a broad outline of the law, with the details to be filled in later through secondary legislation, which cannot be amended and can become law without parliamentary debate.

Dr Hannah White, the deputy director of the Institute for Government, said the growing number of government defeats appeared to reflect concerns about the government’s laws. “This could indicate concerns in the House of Lords about the quality of the legislation and the powers that ministers are giving themselves in primary legislation,” she said.

After so-called “ping pong” between the two houses – when legislation is pushed back and forth between the upper and lower chamber – the government of the day often pushes laws through eventually, despite Lords defeats."

++

It is worthwhile reading the article in full, as it follows on from my earlier post a couple of days ago.

As is the usual way in this country, we muddle along for so many years without making any changes. The two major parties are alike in that they are happy to leave things as they are. Sometimes the actions of the Lords suits them but frustrates their opponents. Other times it works the other way.

What a carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 02:33 AM

We are living in strange times.

John Crace in The Guardian

A knighthood for Gavin Williamson? The UK has its own comedian as PM

Some reward for a friend, huh? Certainly not for his work in government.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 05:04 AM

Just the sort of paranoia that Putin suffers from

Boris Johnson rules out waiving visa rules for Ukrainian refugees

Rather than do the humanitarian thing, lift all barriers and ask questions later, the complete dick in chief thinks believes that the UK will be inundated with Russian spies disguised as Ukrainian refugees.

There must be enough white powder in that cabinet office to float the whole population of Ukraine here

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Mar 22 - 05:22 AM

Of all the most astonishingly ridiculous things Boris Bunter has done, knighting the benighted must rank among the top, er, more than several...

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Mar 22 - 09:01 AM

I think Petty Prattle is outdoing the liar in chief at the moment. What a gross insult to the millions of people in the country who want to help Ukrainians in whatever way they can. She just lies through her teeth and thinks she can get away with it. I hope the antics of this current administration are fully remembered come election time. If Steer Calmer does nothing else, he should make sure every man and his dog remember the incompitence, lies and corruption that have become commonplace at Westminster.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: peteglasgow
Date: 15 Mar 22 - 01:05 PM

i see her maj is not so well these days, i wonder if the government is waiting for her demise as a good day to bury bad news (see sue gray, p94)

seriously though, what could possibly be causing the delay for the 2 reports? maybe all our available met officers are on standby to storm into loads of newly-vacated properties of very wealthy russians in the event of some opportunistic crustie shinning up a drainpipe round the back.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Apr 22 - 03:16 PM

I hope the gutter left is happy with itself interfering in Akshata Murthy's tax affairs.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 22 - 03:30 PM

I seem to recall that the Queen 'decided" to pay tax. Now the missus of The Chancellor has "decided" to pay tax. Great to have the choice, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 11 Apr 22 - 04:14 PM

Aren't you forgetting the Double Taxation Treaty with Indiaaaah??

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 11 Apr 22 - 06:19 PM

Yes, and that tax arrangement allows her, eventually, to avoid £280 million in inheritance tax and about two or three million per annum net in ordinary tax. She is twice as rich as the Queen and has about four extremely luxurious residences (that we know of). The pretence that her finances are completely separate from her hubby is a laugh. Let me put it to you this way, Bonzo. If you are a wannabe benefits claimant, married to someone with savings, you're stuffed. You can't claim even if their savings are incredibly modest. That applies to the poorest in society. But it doesn't apply to the uber-rich like Sunak and his missus. You hardly need to be an ultra-lefty to see how bloody unfair that is, do you? One more thing: her dad founded that company in which, without doing any work, she now has a stake worth £700 million. OK for some, eh, Bonzo?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Apr 22 - 04:59 AM

Tax legislation is what it is, and thank goodness for Double-Taxation Treaties.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Donuel
Date: 12 Apr 22 - 05:20 AM

Good ol Jimmy Savile was never benighted, beheaded or respected for his Trump like behavior.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 12 Apr 22 - 07:38 AM

"Tax legislation is what it is, and thank goodness for Double-Taxation Treaties."

It does need some serious reforms. It needs to be simplified as well. Both major parties seem reluctant to do that, probably for different reasons.

Now do you think Sunak might have considered reforming the non-dom rules? Do you think he ever asked his wife about it?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 12 Apr 22 - 08:43 AM

Why should he, it is there to encourage investment in the UK. Even if non-dom status was abolished and such people are taxed on world income in the UK, they would never be double taxed on overseas income because of Double-Taxation Treaties, whereby foreign tax suffered is deducted from the UK tax liability.

It is what it is.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 12 Apr 22 - 08:51 AM

Liar, liar pants on fire.

From the BBC

Johnson and Sunak to be fined over lockdown parties

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 22 - 09:29 AM

Sunak is now toast. Johnson will fight the next election and win it. Just my predictions (as a Labour Party member), that's all.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Apr 22 - 10:07 AM

"It is what it is."

I expect that's what they said about hanging little boys for sheep-stealing. Until it wasn't what it was any more.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 12 Apr 22 - 10:16 AM

”Sunak is now toast. Johnson will fight the next election and win it.”

I hope you’re right about Sunak. I’m afraid you’re right about ‘Teflon Suit’ Johnson.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Apr 22 - 03:46 AM

On sanctions and the likelihood of global disaster caused by a man-made shortage of diesel fue
~ "Amid the ongoing global inflation crisis, NATO heads of state and mainstream media repeat a mantra that high energy prices are a direct result of Putin’s actions in Ukraine since end of February. The reality is that it is the western sanctions that are responsible. Those sanctions including cutting SWIFT interbank access for key Russian banks and some of the most severe sanctions ever imposed, are hardly having an impact on the military actions in Ukraine. What many overlook is the fact that they are increasingly impacting the economies of the West, especially the EU and USA. A closer look at the state of the global supply of diesel fuel is alarming. But Western sanctions planners at the US Treasury and the EU know fully well what they are doing. And it bodes ill for the world economy.
While most of us rarely think about diesel fuel as anything other than a pollutant, in fact it is essential to the entire world economy in a way few energy sources are. The director general of Fuels Europe, part of the European Petroleum Refiners Association, stated recently, “… there is a clear link between diesel and GDP, because almost everything that goes into and out of a factory goes using diesel.”
At the end of the first week of Russia’s military action in Ukraine, with no sanctions yet specific to Russia’s diesel fuel exports, the European diesel price was already at a thirty-year high. It had nothing to do with war. It had to do with the draconian global covid lockdowns since March 2020 and the simultaneous dis-investment by Wall Street and global financial firms in oil and gas companies, so-called Green Agenda or ESG. Almost on day one of Russian troop actions in Ukraine, two of the world’s largest oil companies, BP and Shell, both British, stopped deliveries of diesel fuel to Germany claiming fear of supply shortages. Russia supplied some 60 to 70% of all EU diesel before the Ukraine war.
In 2020 Russia was the world’s second largest exporter of diesel fuel behind USA, shipping more than 1 million barrels daily. Most of it, some 70%, went to the EU and Turkey. France was the largest importer, followed by Germany and UK. In France some 76% of all road vehicles—cars, trucks—use diesel.The EU diesel demand is far higher than in the US as most cars also use the more economical and efficient diesel fuel. In the first week of April the EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen proudly announced new sanctions against Russian energy that would begin with a ban on coal. The EU is the largest importer of Russian coal. Oil and gas she said would follow at a later date. That foolish move will merely boost costs of energy, already at record high, for most of the EU, as it will force oil and gas prices far higher.
At the beginning of the Ukraine crisis global stocks of diesel fuel were already the lowest since 2008 as the covid lockdowns had done major damage to the demand-supply situation of oil and gas production. Now the stage is set for an unprecedented crisis in diesel. The consequences will be staggering for the world economy.
Diesel Moves World Trade
Diesel engines have the highest engine efficiency of conventional motors. They are based on the principle of compression developed in 1897 by Rudolf Diesel. Because of their greater efficiency and greater mileage per gallon, diesel fuels almost all freight truck motors. It fuels most all farm equipment from tractors to harvesting machines. It is widely used in the EU, almost 50% for auto fuel as it is far more fuel efficient than gasoline engines. It is used in most all heavy mining machines such as Caterpillar earth movers. It is used in construction equipment. Diesel engines have replaced steam engines on all non-electrified railroads in the world, especially freight trains. Diesel is used in some electric power generation and in most all heavy military vehicles.
A global shortage in diesel fuel, temporary or longer-term, is therefore a catastrophic event. Goods cannot be moved from container ports to inland destinations. Without diesel fuel trucks cannot deliver food to the supermarket, or anything else for that matter. The entire supply chain is frozen. And there is no possibility to substitute gasoline in a diesel engine without ruining the engine.
Until the ill-conceived global covid lockdowns of industry and transportation that began in March 2020, the demand and supply of diesel fuel was well balanced. The sudden lockdowns however collapsed diesel demand for truck transport, autos, construction, even farming. Unprofitable refineries were closed. Capacity declined. Now as world production returns to a semblance of pre-covid normal, diesel reserve stocks worldwide are dangerously low, especially in the EU which is the world’s largest diesel consumer, but also the USA.
Rationing?
At the start of this year world diesel stocks were already dangerously low and that drove prices sky-high. As of February, 2022 before impact of the Ukraine war, diesel and related stocks in the US were 21% below the pre-covid seasonal average. In the EU stocks were 8% or 35 million barrels below the pre-covid average level. In Singapore, the Asian hub stocks were 32% below normal. Combined all three regions’ diesel stocks were alarmingly low, some 110 million barrels below the same point last year.
Between January 2021 and January 2022 EU diesel fuel prices had almost doubled, and that, before the Ukraine sanctions. There were several reasons, but primary was the soaring price of crude oil and supply disruptions owing to global covid lockdowns and the subsequent resumption of world trade flows. To add to the problem, in early March the Chinese central government imposed a ban on its exports of diesel fuel, to “ensure energy security” amid Western sanctions on Russia. Add to that the recent Biden administration ban on imports of all Russian oil and gas, which in 2021 included an estimated 20% of all Russian heavy oil exports. At the same time the EU in its ever-ideological wisdom, is finalizing a ban on imports of Russian coal with bans on Russian crude oil, diesel fuel and gas reportedly to follow.
On April 4 average price per liter of diesel in Germany was €2.10. On December 27, 2021 it was €1.50, a rise of 40% in weeks. Following the unprecedented USA and EU sanctions against Russia following the Ukraine military campaign after February 24, more and more Western oil companies and oil traders are refusing to handle Russian crude oil or diesel fuel for fear of reprisals. This is certain to escalate so long as fighting in Ukraine continues.
The CEO of the Rotterdam-based Vitol, the world’s largest independent energy trading company , warned on March 27 that rationing of diesel fuel in the coming months globally was increasingly likely. He noted, “Europe imports about half of its diesel from Russia and about half of its diesel from the Middle East. That systemic shortfall of diesel is there.”
On April 7, David McWilliams, a leading Irish economist formerly with the Irish national bank, sounded an alarming note. “Not only is oil going up, diesel is going up and there’s a real threat diesel will run out in Western Europe over the course of the next two or three weeks, or maybe before that…We import a significant amount of our diesel, it comes from two refineries in the UK where it’s first processed. Those refineries do not have any crude at the moment. So we are basically running the economy on a day-to-day, hour-to-hour basis.” He added: ‘We have not just an oil crisis, we have an energy crisis the likes of which we haven’t seen in 50 years.” According to him the reason diesel stocks are so low is that the EU countries found it far cheaper to outsource oil and diesel to Russia with its huge supply.
The situation in the USA is not better. For political reasons the true state of the diesel fuel crisis is reportedly being downplayed by the Biden administration and the EU. Inflation is already at 40 year highs in the US. What the unfolding global diesel fuel crisis will mean, barring a major turnaround, is a dramatic impact on all forms of truck and auto transportation, farming, mining and the like. It will spell catastrophe for an already failing world economy. Yet governments like the German “Ampel” (traffic light) coalition, with their insane Zero Carbon agenda, and their plans to phase out oil, coal and gas, or the Biden cabal, privately see the exploding energy prices as further argument to abandon hydrocarbons like oil for unreliable, costly wind and solar. The real industrial interconnected global economy is not like a game of lego toys. It is highly complex and finely tuned.That fine tuning is being systematically destroyed, and all evidence is that it is deliberate. Welcome to the Davos Great Reset eugenics agenda." ~
F. William Engdahl is strategic risk consultant and lecturer, he holds a degree in politics from Princeton University and is a best-selling author on oil and geopolitics, exclusively for the online magazine “ - - - - - - - ”.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Rain Dog
Date: 13 Apr 22 - 04:27 AM

Here in the South East, it is the Just Stop Oil  activists who are responsible for the diesel and petrol shortages. All adds to the fun that we are having at the moment.

Essex Police make more arrests over fuel protests

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Apr 22 - 08:40 AM

Why don't you just provide us a link, Dick? Or, if you cannot manage that, at least give us the source.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Apr 22 - 09:13 AM

It an article by F William Engdahl in the New Eastern Outlook which according to Wiki is "is a pseudo-academic publication of the Russian Academy of Science’s Institute of Oriental Studies that promotes disinformation and propaganda focused primarily on the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. It combines pro-Kremlin views of Russian academics with anti U.S. views of Western fringe voices and conspiracy theorists."

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Apr 22 - 09:24 AM

Thanks Raggytash.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Apr 22 - 10:12 AM

Not really the kind of source that I would quote from !!

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 02:47 AM

I know that there are still some Tory supporters out there. Here is your invitation to justify why Johnson is still in office.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 03:55 AM

the source is mentioned at the bottom of the article for feck sake.
but it is the kind of source i quote from to get a balnce between western propoganda and Russian and propaganda.
Dave, if you had bothered to scroll to the bottom, i gave the source
F. William Engdahl is strategic risk consultant and lecturer, he holds a degree in politics from Princeton University and is a best-selling author on oil and geopolitics, exclusively for the online magazine “ - - - - - - - ”.
*
PS, even a Google search will not link directly to this article, because of the location of the hosting website, which is now deemed conspiratorial despite it being run by a cultural research institute.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 04:21 AM

of course it is, that is what freedom of speech is supposed to be about , if it is quietly suppressed as facebook appear to doing, we are no better than the Russians.
who is it that has written this on wiki
"is a pseudo-academic publication of the Russian Academy of Science’s Institute of Oriental Studies that promotes disinformation and propaganda focused primarily on the Middle East, Asia, and Africa. It combines pro-Kremlin views of Russian academics with anti U.S. views of Western fringe voices and conspiracy theorists."
Could it be Establishment Western Propogandists? why is this a source that is considered by wiki to be unreliable, could it be that it is offering a different perspective, so much for freedom of speech

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 04:33 AM

here is what the western propaganda news has to say on deisel shortages from reuters[ again this is acknowledged at bottom of article if people are not too lazy

UPDATE 2-China urges state refiners to halt April fuel exports, sources say

By Chen Aizhu

3 Min Read

(Adds quotes, market reaction, context)

SINGAPORE, March 9 (Reuters) - Beijing has told Chinese state refiners to consider suspending exports of gasoline and diesel in April as the Ukraine war heightens concern of shortages, three sources with knowledge of the matter said on Wednesday.

The global market is reeling from the impact of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine that has led to western sanctions on Russia, the world’s leading supplier of crude and products.

The prospect of a further reduction in Asian exports helped to drive refining margins for some products to record highs.

Asian supplies have also been reduced by outages because of the refinery maintenance season and action by the Chinese government earlier in the year to prevent excessive production.

The three sources, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue, said companies were likely to scale back overseas shipments further in April following reduced exports in March.

The National Development and Reform Commission did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

One of the sources said the cuts were aimed at preventing a shortage as independent refiners were under pressure to process less because of the surge in crude prices.

Another said, exports might not be halted completely.

“My feeling is companies were told to hold off talks for new export deals,” the source said.

Russia is the world’s top exporter of crude and oil products combined, at around 7 million barrels per day, or 7% of global supply, according to the International Energy Agency.

Concern about disruption of supplies has driven global oil prices to 14-year highs, potentially squeezing profits for oil refiners, but demand for products is such that refining margins for several oil products in Asia hit all-time highs on Wednesday.

The Asian gasoil crack, or the profit of processing benchmark crude oil Dubai into diesel fuel, hit a record of $44 a barrel and that for aviation fuel also touched a new high at $36 a barrel.

VLSFO margins jumped to an all-time high of $31.79 a barrel, while gasoline margins GL92-SIN-CRK climbed to $16.71 a barrel, the strongest level since October 2021, and up 46 cents from the last close.

China reduced refined fuel exports by a third in the first two months of the year after Beijing in January cut export quotas to discourage plants from over-processing.

China in January released 13 million tonnes of refined fuel quotas - consisting mostly of diesel, gasoline and aviation fuel - under the first batch for 2022, down 56% from the first allotment of 2021.

Reporting by Chen Aizhu, Muyu Xu and Florence Tan; Additional reporting by Koustav Samanta and Mohi Narayan; Editing by Louise Heavens and Barbara Lewis

Our Standards: The Thomson Reuters Trust Principles.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 04:48 AM

oh yes and then we had BBC PROPAGANDA, stating that deisel shrtages in the uk were caused by protestors, maybe the deisel shortages were caused by all 3 that it was a combination of factors

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 06:08 AM

Dave:
I know that there are still some Tory supporters out there. Here is your invitation to justify why Johnson is still in office.

Why is he in office?
Partly because he is doing a good, and important, job where it matters. He, or the people chosen by him have put us in a good position with regards Covid. Yes, there were problems with overspending on supplies at a time when all the world was chasing the same suppliers.
He appears to be doing a good job on Ukraine, where he has pissed off Putin, and got useful supplies (arms) to Ukraine before the EU (that much-loved establishment) got off their backsides.

Should he resign because of receiving a fixed-penalty fine?
You may think yes, I think no.

Are the Labour party trying to blow this out of proportion? Clearly.
Tuesday night, on the Welsh news Mark Drakeford (First Minister, Wales) was calling for his resignation on the basis that he had broken laws he helped create. This ignores the fact that the Welsh government have been steadily reducing speed limits "for health reasons". But Drakeford took no action when the Welsh Health Minister recently got banned for speeding (under the 'points' system, so not a first offence). Hypocrisy like this is not uncommon.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 06:23 AM

He should resign, HE lied to parliament and thinks he is above the law

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: peteglasgow
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 07:37 AM

it has very little to do with parties. it is everything to do with him lying to parliament and to us. and for the complete contempt for the people of the uk - every day another lie, another hapless minister wheeled out to obfuscate and lie for him. Have these people no shame at all?

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 07:42 AM

It looks like even Johnson is claiming he needs to correct the record for misleading Parliament about the parties.

Boris Johnson has promised to address parliament next week about his fine for breaching Covid laws and “set the record straight in any way that I can” on his previous claims that no rules were broken." (Guardian, live report)

This will be an interesting statement. If it restricts itself to the party in which he was fined, a follow up question of "What about the rest?" will be inevitable .On the other hand he certainly won't want to admit to things he hasn't yet been fined for. He will probably go for apologising for the one fine but refusing to comment on the rest, which will not help him much if fines for them do arrive, particularly if his apology claimed to set the record straight.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 10:27 AM

Dick, long copy/paste posts are hard to read and are probably against copyright. Post a link and a few quotes, don't put the whole long thing in.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 10:53 AM

Dick, you gave the author but the only other reference was the vague mention of an online magazine with no name given. Not really a source is it and as you seem to have cut and pasted from that magazine it would have been easy for you to paste the URL as well. And what SRS says.

Nigel, no I don't think he should resign because of a fixed penalty. He should resign for lying and misleading parliament

There was no party
There was a meeting but I was not there
I may have been there but I broke no laws
It may have been a party but I was not aware of that
OK, I am sorry. I was there but it was not against the rules
I was only doing the same as all those doctors and nurses do
I was busy and did not realise I was there, that it was a party and illegal
Right. I was there. It was a party. It was illegal. But I did it by accident
I cannot resign or Putin will come and rape your aunty

Give us a break. I could repost the link to Boris Johnson lies again 8f you like. I'm sure it must have grown nearly as long as his nose by now.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 11:03 AM

I should also add, seeing as I mentioned him, that Putin got to and stays in power by lying and misinformation. Bozo may not be quite in his league but with petty prattle ramping up laws against dissent we can see where this is going. Lying to parliament and the public is an undemocratic disgrace but he has got away with his lies for so long I think he really believes he is untouchable. If he doesn't jump, he should be pushed.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 11:23 AM

it has very little to do with parties

It has everything to do with sticking to the rules that the government put in place for everyone else:- "Do as I say, not as I do!".

We may be out of lockdown but the pandemic hasn't gone away. If things take a turn for the worse and lockdown has to be reimposed, who is going to listen to Boris? He has lost his authority on the subject.

If he didn't realise that he was breaking his own rules, he is incompetent. If he did, he knowingly misled Parliament. In either case, he should go. His replacement can deal with the situation in Ukraine.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 12:25 PM

Dave, The source was mentionedand his curriculm vitae, you could not be botherd to read.
what right have i got to edit some one elses article, that ie a form of censorship,
Censorship is when you use your position of power -- any power -- to shut people up and/or control the information that other people can access.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: DMcG
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 12:41 PM

I freely admit I did not bother to read the text, Sandman. I don't know what the original looked like, but it was probably divided into clear paragraphs. I read a lot of long things online - I read Hansard, for heaven's sake! - but huge dumps of text like that are near illegible. After the first few sentences I stopped bothering.

I agree with SRS: summarising what you think are the key points, then linking to the original article is far better, to my tastes.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 02:56 PM

Dick, the source, provided by Raggytash, was the New Eastern Outlook, mentioned nowhere in the C&P. Now you not only expect everyone to read poorly formated text but also to go and look up the author's CV. Get everyone else to do your work or simply post a link to your source. Your choice. I only know what I would do and how it looks to others. I shall leave it at that.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 03:05 PM

The problem with lies is that everyone does it. And defining lies, when you hold up a fine grain analyzer, becomes a matter of interpretation and opinion. Not unlike the famous quote about pornography by U.S. Supreme Potter Stewart in 1964: "I know it when I see it."

I think one of the things that makes us hold some folks in public positions in contempt is the quality of their lies. For us Americans there has been a famous distinction between the supporters and the opponents of the ex-President Trmp. This is a man who seems to know no limits and be unconcerned with supporting evidence. Not long after his election came the absurd but defensible saying that his enemies took him literally but not seriously, and his supporters took him seriously but not literally.

YMMV

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 05:04 PM

I copied it as it was on facebook , so Dave , try a little harder. ,i

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Apr 22 - 08:59 PM

what right have i got to edit some one elses article, that ie a form of censorship,

No, it's theft if you don't treat it properly. Summarize, quote, but don't copy and paste the entire thing. Share the URL and people can find the article in context. Even Facebook posts.

We weren't able to oust Trump (twice!) with his heinous acts, so it seems like misbehavior of officials in high office is entirely normalized even in the democratic world. Nixon resigned with the thread of impeachment, Trump didn't seem to understand how serious impeachment is.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 15 Apr 22 - 05:35 PM

bollocks.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Raggytash
Date: 15 Apr 22 - 07:58 PM

Dick, please listen to this without getting upset. You, and a few others, frequently copy and paste articles you have read.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that except that you should, as a matter of honesty, indicate that it is a quote and not your own word and secondly where the quote came from.

Your last quote, to my mind, was from a very dubious source.

Please note this is not an attack on you, it is an observation on your, and others, style of posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Apr 22 - 08:12 PM

I'm bloody useless at doing links and I can no longer afford even the cheaper types of low-rise nylon knickers in Aldi six-packs to get in a twist, but here's my personal unwritten rules:

Do a bit of a quote. Pick out the good bits but be honest enough to at least mention bits that will not further your case.

Give enough info for the reader to easily access the place the quote came from.

Never refer to stuff from behind a paywall which you crucially expect your reader to read but which they can't unless they pay money.

Tell the readership why you've quoted what you've quoted, why it's relevant and why (if you do) agree with it and how it furthers the debate.

Do not quote more than will fit on a page of Mudcat. I confidently predict that, if you do, it will not be read).

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: The Sandman
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 01:58 AM

the source is no more dubious than any wetesrn news site including the BBC. do you honestly believe they are giving you neutral news if you do you are living in cloud cuckoo land
Why should i bother with people who are too lazy?
its ok I will not bother any more, i will share it on facebook this section of the site is pointless and is moderated by one person who has openly said
".but I'm getting to the point where I wouldn't mind us, or other countries, getting involved in kicking Putin's ass, and never mind the threat of
world war" anything. Except maybe not tempting China to get involved." what a statement,how can you have a world war without china being involved.
its ok you are welcome to such moderators
I am out of here,it makes more sense to talk to the wall

Subject: RE: BS: Brexit & other UK political topics
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Apr 22 - 02:04 AM

Bye Dick.