Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++

Subject: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 02:43 AM

Hi all, from another thread "Nic Jones - video footage?" I thought I would pick up on the topic wandering to the matter of the Nic Jones John Peel sessions recorded for the BBC over the period 1972-1977, plus an additional one recorded in 1981 for "Folk on 2".

Reinhard (I think) who curates the "Mainly Norfolk" site has an excellent summary of known information at https://mainlynorfolk.info/nic.jones/records/bbc.html, from which I derive the slightly simplified list below. What is interesting (to me) is that a number of songs were played, never recorded otherwise in studio sessions, marked in the list either * or **, the former being represented in a live setting on either "In Search of..." or "Unearthed" or (in the case of the "Folk on 2" session, re-released "In Search of..."), and the 2-asterisk tracks never released anywhere, so far as I am aware.

In 2017, a kind person has uploaded a very clear recording of the four July 1976 tracks to youtube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzVWvjistp0), and last year "O'Carolan's Concerto" from the August 1973 session was also uploaded there: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryQIWQKzsEk . As mentioned in the list, the 3 tracks recorded for "Folk on 2" in 1981 are also available on "In Search of Nic Jones". For the rest, who knows? I would not be surprised if keen tapers have copies somewhere - I have a small number myself but probably very muddy - must check... A guest called "CB" (not CJB = Chris Brady) said he has the 1977 session on tape (we already can access the 1976 one as above) which would be nice to hear some day (hint hint)...

Anyway here is the list - further comment welcome.

Cheers - Tony Rees, Australia
-----------------------------
Nic Jones BBC recordings - all John Peel Show except for 1 March 1981
(Modified version of list at https://mainlynorfolk.info/nic.jones/records/bbc.html)

* = not on any studio album (but on live compilations In Search Of / Unearthed)
** = no commercial release known

Recorded 5 June 1972, broadcast 11 July 1972
1. Donald the Pride of Glencoe **
2. The Island of St. Helena **
3. The Blind Harper
4. Rufford Park Poachers *

Recorded 27 November 1972, broadcast 12 December 1972
1. The Outlandish Knight
2. The Green Mossy Banks of the Lea
3. The Lakes of Shilin
4. William of Winesbury *

Recorded 6 August 1973, broadcast 20 September 1973
1. Isle of France
2. The Lass of London City
3. The Blind Harper
4. O'Carolan's Concerto **

Recorded 24 January 1974, broadcast 31 January 1974
1. Ploughman Lads *
2. Isle of France
3. The Drowned Lovers (= Clyde Water)
4. Fare Thee Love (?? possibly = Fare Thee Well My Dearest Dear *)

Recorded 28 October 1974, broadcast 7 November 1974
1. The Warlike Lads of Russia
2. Dives and Lazarus *
3. Jigs: Blackthorn Stick, Dr O'Neill **
4. The Bonny Banks of Fordie

Recorded 14 October 1975, broadcast 12 November 1975
1. Bonny George Campbell *
2. The Wanton Seed
3. Sammy's Bar **
4. The Lakes of Shilin

Recorded 8 July 1976, broadcast 23 July 1976
1. Billy Don't You Weep for Me
2. Annachie Gordon
3. Ten Thousand Miles
4. My Grandfather Knew the Plough **

Recorded 19 April 1977, broadcast 26 April 1977
1. William Glenn
2. Annachie Gordon
3. The Rose of Allendale * (except with Bandoggs)

Recorded 1 March 1981 for "Folk on 2"
1. Seven Yellow Gypsies *
2. Swimming Song *
3. The Rose of Allendale * (except with Bandoggs)

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 06:06 AM

If my memory serves me correctly I recall watching a BBC t.v. play, many, many years ago, a haunting production involving a child, the accompanying music being Nic Jones playing "The Teddy Bears Picnic". I know it sounds odd but I wonder if the BBC still has it in the archives.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 06:42 AM

John from Kemsing:

Our Day Out by Willy Russell.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 07:21 AM

On the version of the 1976 session (a repeat broadcast?) uploaded to youtube, there is no between song chat, but I distinctly remember hearing the original broadcast, and after the last line of "Billy Don't You Weep for Me" died away ("never love a soldier, or sit all on his knee"), John Peel saying: "And to this day, I have not sat upon a soldier's knee". ...

- Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 07:28 AM

Guest, well found, thank you.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 07:54 AM

I think there was a Radio 1 In Concert which was rebroadcast on BBC 6 Music, possibly introduced by Jo Whiley, I'll check this evening. There is also a soundboard recording of a gig in Italy.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 12:07 PM

Good to see that Nic was properly credited.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST,Roger again
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 12:20 PM

I have a recording of a BBC Bandoggs concert somewhere. I'll try to dig it out.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 03:52 PM

Yes, the Italian gig was Teatro Bonci, Cesena, Forlì, Italy, December 17th 1981.

Track list:

Disc One, Set One :

1. Seven Gypsies
2. Petronella (instrumental dance tune)
3. The Ruins By The Show
4. Instrumental Fiddle Tune
5. Fiddle Jig : The Lannigan Ball
6. Guitar Jig (instrumental dance tune)
7. Rockin' The Baby
8. Fishing For
9. Instrumental Fiddle Tune
10. Instrumental Reel Tune
11. Farewell To The Gold

Disc Two, Set Two :   

1. The Trees
2. Canadee I O
3. The Little Heathy Hill (instrumental)
4. Billy Don't You Weep For Me
5. Lord Franklin
6. Instrumental Fiddle Tune
7. Instrumental Fiddle Tune
8. Yamato Town
9. Monday Morning

Encores :

10. This Summer I Went Swimming
11. Guitar Jig (instrumental)

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 04:09 PM

RE Bandoggs at Teatro Bonci, Cesena, Forlì, Italy, December 17th 1981 - sounds great, I don't suppose there is any way to hear or share this?

- Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 04:17 PM

According to http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/johnpeel/sessions/1970s/1977/Dec14bandoggs/
, Bandoggs also did a John Peel Session, recorded 14 December 1977, broadcast 13 January 1978. Tracks were:
1. The Tailor In The Tea Chest/Astley's Ride/ Up And Away
2. Laird Logie
3. The Dragoon And The Lady/Grand Duke Of York
4. The Swimming Song

(I have not heard this one)

- Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 04:28 PM

1 track from the Bandoggs 1981 concert in Italy was included on "In Search of Nic Jones", apparently, i.e. "Lord Franklin", according to Reinhard's list on "Mainly Norfolk". (I do not have that album to hand, but obviously should!!)

- Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Reinhard
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 05:23 PM

"Lord Franklin" is from a 1981 concert, but Nic sang it just to his guitar accompaniment, so I don't know if this is from the Bandoggs concert mentioned or from a solo concert.

The notes on the song from "In Search of Nic Jones":
I’ve always considered this to be a classic among folk songs and I first came across it during my days with The Halliard. It wasn't a song I used to do and I can’t actually remember singing it, so it was quite a surprise to me when I first heard the tape. It was recorded when I was in Italy doing some concerts that Paolo Nuti had arranged for me in 1981. Regrettably, I only have very vague memories of the time just before my argument with a brick lorry, but Julia assures me I had a great time over there.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 06:39 PM

Thanks Reinhard for the clarification!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 03:10 AM

For interest, it seems that the 1976 Peel session uploaded to youtube is the result of a rebroadcast in 2016. The relevant info is in following exchange, included among the comments section on the youtube page:
----------
Chris Brady
3 years ago
Please - are there any more John Peel sessions with Nic Jones around?

Sterling Cale
3 years ago
it seems his sessions are rare as Mr. Jones is reclusive. This set was aired on 6 Music, Boxing Day 2016, so it's tempting to think the BBC are plundering the archives and digitise the other seven sessions for future transmission.
-----------

I do not know whether any more have materialised in high quality to date, however.

- Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 29 Jun 21 - 04:56 PM

So the tracks on the BBC 6 Radio 2004 rebroadcast I have, which I'm sure was introduced by Janice Long are:

Seven Gypsies
Icarus
The Rose of Alandale
Little pot stove
Barrack Street
Farewell To The Gold
The Swimming Song
Tune

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 05:05 AM

Hi Bonzo3legs - interesting track list - a number of these do not appear on The Peel Sessions list above :) e.g. Icarus, Little Pot Stove, Barrack Street, Farewell to the Gold ... and Swimming Song is only on the Bandoggs Session. I wonder where these came from!

Meanwhile I have 2 tracks on a live tape off a radio session - maybe Folk on 2 or similar, 1975 according to my notes; Nic Plays "Hardiman The Fiddler" (with a spoken intro) then sings "Fare The Well My Dearest Dear" (not sure if that is the correct title). I have not traced any record of this transmission elsewhere, at this time anyway...

- Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 02:55 PM

Hi again Bonzo3legs, Reinhard and an old guest, under a previous thread discussing the 1976 Peel Session "Nic Jones - BBC R6 - 1976 rebroadcast", the 1981 concert (rebroadcast in 2004) that you describe above ("Seven Gypsies", etc.) was kindly made available via a person's dropbox or 2. I must have been not paying attention to mudcat at the time - any chance of a re-post?

Thanks in hopefulness - Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 04:07 PM

fare thee well my dearest dear is the correct title

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Reinhard
Date: 30 Jun 21 - 05:34 PM

The notes on "In Search of..." and "Unearthed" are woefully unhelpful in finding the source of their tracks. They contain performances of "Seven Yellow Gypsies", "Hardiman the Fiddler", "Fare The Well My Dearest Dear", and "Icarus" but it is not clear if these are the performances that Tony mentioned.

And Tony, I have only Nic's LPs and CDs, no other radio sessions, so I can't help you here. Sorry.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST,James Phillips
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 08:03 AM

Was just listening to the recording of him singing The Pride of Glencoe and it struck me how similar it sounded to Tony Cuffe's version, uploaded by Douglas Hadden last year (perhaps recorded from the radio, he says, although a date is not given).

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 03:29 PM

David Thomas of London has alerted me to a couple more snippets from John Peel sessions available via youtube:

Nic Jones - Two Songs From 1973 Peel Session - contains O'Carolan's Concerto (already available separately) and Isle Of France; the other 2 songs from this session are not on the tape that these tracks came from, although I have a fragment of one in my own collection (The Blind Harper, recorded off air, but only the last 3 verses!)

Nic Jones Blackthorn stick/Dr O'Neill (from Oct 1974 session, broadcast Nov 1974)

The uploader of the last says that "William Glenn" aka Captain Glenn from this session was included on "Unearthed", however that seems to be a mistake since that song was not recorded for Peel Sessions until 1977.

- Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 05:07 PM

Tony, we are away from home until 10 July but will upload the the 1981 concert when I return.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 01 Jul 21 - 06:18 PM

Thanks Bonzo!

One day (maybe when we are all gone) it would be nice to see this and related materials available via some publicly accessible archive, or via commercial release with proceeds to Nic and family (time for a BBC reissues series I am thinking)...

Cheers Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jul 21 - 05:54 AM

I remember him doing a cracking version of Buy Broom Besoms. Did he ever record it?

Tradsinger

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Jul 21 - 11:05 PM

RE Buy Broom Besoms: not to my knowledge, however I have not heard all the live tapes that are out there (probably the subject for another thread...)

- Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 13 Jun 22 - 02:41 AM

Returning to my initial post - RE this particular BBC session:

(BBC radio John Peel Show - actually "Top Gear" I believe)
Recorded 5 June 1972, broadcast 11 July 1972
1. Donald the Pride of Glencoe
2. The Island of St. Helena
3. The Blind Harper
4. Rufford Park Poachers

Of particular interest: Nic's version of "The Island of St. Helena" has never appeared on any studio album or live recordings compilation. Somehow, I have a partial tape of this session which cuts out completely after the guitar introduction and the first verse... just wondering whether anyone else might have a more complete tape lurking (a long shot I know). A youtube user called Rob Embleton uploaded the start of this show in poor mono quality, in which JP announces that Nic Jones is on it, but no music (just his comments as 4 snippets regarding the new Rod Stewart LP he was about to play).

"Island of St. Helena" being a particular favourite of mine (a somewhat distant club recording of this is also available on youtube under the title "Nic Jones: Bony on the Isle of St Helena" uploaded in 2010 from a 1972 club performance, not by me... but the Peel Show version should be in higher quality, if it exists. (According to other sources known to me, the BBC did not keep the tapes of its early shows such as this and the tapes were generally wiped for re-use!!).

Any assistance very welcome,

Regards - Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST,Rigby
Date: 13 Jun 22 - 04:58 AM

Regarding the 1975 session, I would assume that 'Sammy's Bar' is likely 'The Jukebox As She Turned', which appears on Unearthed.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 13 Jun 22 - 05:52 AM

No, Sammy's Bar is a song by Cyril Tawney; Jukebox as she turned is by Jeff Deitchman, a different song (I have heard many other Cyril Tawney songs, but know nothing of the other author, my bad probably).

- Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 13 Jun 22 - 03:35 PM

Great news - a member of the Facebook group "Nic Jones Appreciation Society" has come forward with all 4 tracks from Nic's first (July 1972) session for BBC radio (John Peel Show aka "To Gear") - visit https://www.facebook.com/groups/5231679367/ if interested. Maybe it will be possible to post them more publicly/permanently somewhere in due course. Meanwhile thanks heaps to Neil Jennings for allowing access to his holdings for these rare tracks!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST,CJB666
Date: 13 Jun 22 - 05:39 PM

Clicky ...

https://www.facebook.com/groups/5231679367/

====

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GerryM
Date: 14 Jun 22 - 03:42 AM

Post, upthread, From: GUEST, Date: 28 Jun 21 - 03:52 PM, mentions a recording of "The Ruins By The Show". Would that be a typo for "The Ruins By The Shore"?

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 31 Aug 22 - 01:48 AM

News to me - but maybe not to others - is that 3 Nic Jones live tracks from 1980 appear on the 2004 compilation double CD "Folk Festival - A Celebration of Music Recorded at the Sidmouth International Festival" - full details available at https://mainlynorfolk.info/folk/records/folkfestivalsidmouth.html (thanks Reinhardt). The NJ tracks are Flanders (aka Flandyke) Shore(s), Bonny Light Horseman, and Barrack Street. The CD set is apparently available for purchase via Amazon or the tracks can be streamed via Spotify in "acceptable" quality (free account) or better-but-still-not-CD quality (premium i.e. paid account)... Well worth a listen if you have not heard them!

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Sep 22 - 02:47 PM

Earlier in this thread were a couple of interesting contributions:

From: GUEST,Roger again - PM
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 12:20 PM

> I have a recording of a BBC Bandoggs concert somewhere. I'll try to dig it out.

My comment: Bandoggs did a John Peel Session, recorded 14 December 1977, broadcast 13 January 1978

and

From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 21 - 03:52 PM

> Yes, the Italian gig was Teatro Bonci, Cesena, Forlì, Italy, December 17th 1981.

> Track list:

> Disc One, Set One :

1. Seven Gypsies
2. Petronella (instrumental dance tune)
(etc.)

In my mind I had conflated these 2, thinking the Italian set was by Bandoggs (they did tour Italiy I think - unless I have that wrong as well!) - but judging by the material it was obviously a Nic solo gig, from which "Petronella" and maybe "Lord Franklin" have subsequently had "official" release.

As stated above, I would love to hear these, if anyone has a copy they can share, either privately or publicly...

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 02 Sep 22 - 03:29 PM

Tony.
I'll do my best to find the Bandoggs recording.
As I remember it was mostly of their album.
Roger.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 02 Sep 22 - 03:52 PM

I've found it Tony.
I've not played it yet and I am racking my brain cell to remember when I recorded it.
On the other side is a BBC concert of The Boys of the Lough.
Whether that will help date it I don't know.
As soon as I know it still plays well I can send it to you.
Roger.

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 02 Sep 22 - 06:30 PM

OK sounds great - thanks in advance, Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 03 Sep 22 - 03:34 PM

OK, Nic Jones at Teatro Bonci, Cesena, Forlì, Italy, December 17th 1981 (details further back in the thread) - this show was uploaded to Dime a few years back, and a friend has kindly provided a copy, so I have it now...

Happy to share privately if anyone would like to send me a PM.

This show was obviously available to compilers of previous Nic albums but only a couple of tracks received official release - I am guessing for reasons of space, so that other material could be included from elsewhere as well, but I for one would be happy for such shows to be released in their entirety (or at least saved for posterity as such)...

The copy ex Dime could do with slight re-eq-ing (seems a bit trebly) but that is easy to do after the fact for someone with the inclination.

- Tony

Subject: RE: Nic Jones rare/unreleased tracks - BBC++
From: Tony Rees
Date: 04 Sep 22 - 02:43 AM

A bit above, GerryM said: From: GUEST, Date: 28 Jun 21 - 03:52 PM, mentions a recording of "The Ruins By The Show". Would that be a typo for "The Ruins By The Shore"?
------------
Yes, you are right, it is incorrectly labelled on the text file that accompanied the Italian recording on Dime. The song is a fine Nic original, see https://mainlynorfolk.info/nic.jones/songs/ruinsbytheshore.html maybe one of his first on record, also to be found on the "In Search of..." compilation, perhaps even this Italian performance (not compared at this time...)