'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants

Subject: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: GUEST,BDenz
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 04:00 PM

Liam O'Flynn does a pipe tune about the Wild Geese and speaks of this as a common term applied to young Irish men who left for American before the potato famines. Checked the index -- Found several songs, but I'd like to be able to place this in history. Anyone know WHEN these immigrants were called Wild Geese? Other details would be welcomed.

Barbara

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 04:04 PM

Originally, the "Wild Geese" was a term applied to defeated Irish soldiers who left Ireland for the continent of Europe after the defeat of a 17C. rebellion in Ireland. Later, it was sometimes romantically applied to emigrants in general.

Regards

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: Áine
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 04:27 PM

Dear BDenz,

Please click here for a website with some historical notes on The Wild Geese.

-- Áine

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 04:49 PM

I was goint to post a link to the Wild Geese site, but Áine beat me to it! This is a great site, a good place to research such issues, and post threads with questions. I did some research here for one of my songs!

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: GUEST,Bdenz
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 04:49 PM

Wow! A whole website for Wild Geese. I never would have thought of that.

Thanks to both of you. Am passing the info onto my husband, the arranger.

Barb

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 04:51 PM

Oops. To all 3 of you [cross-posted, Liam.]

Liam -- one of your songs? As in one you wrote? [glyph of very interested singer]

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: GUEST,Mbo
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 06:09 PM

I like the Wild Geese so much, I'm assembling all the music I can find about them--including spectacular victories when serving with the French army at Fontenoy & Cremona.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: GUEST,Mbo
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 06:17 PM

BTW I'm a member of the Wild Geese website. Over there I'm known as "The Dagda."

--Mbo

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: JedMarum
Date: 20 Jan 00 - 06:26 PM

Barb - I wrote a few songs where the wild geese info was helpful, but none specifically about Wild Geese. I wrote some about my ancestor's experineces, and some about experiences of others ... Irish born Civil War soldiers and Irish immigrant experiences in general.

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: GeorgeH
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 07:16 AM

I've no idea whether there's any connection (I've often wondered this, but never strongly enough to ask the question) but I've also heard Irish folk tales involving wild geese (as geese, more or less) - and thought "did these tales feed into the song tradition?"

Also, as I recall, don't some songs use "wild geese" (with some irony) in refering to the Irish who fell in WWI fighting for the English? A version of "The Foggy Dew"?

G.

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: Brendy
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 07:23 AM

Do you know Mayonnaise. As in that stuff you put on sandwiches? Invented by a Lieutenant McMahon of the French Army millions of years ago. A descendent of the original Wild Geese. (MacMahonaisse, geddit?); also there's a Wine company in Bordeaux, forget the name now, Irish people, also descendents of the original crew.
B.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE IRISH BRIGADE (from the Wolfetones)
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 09:07 AM

Here are the lyrics to the Wolfetones song about the Irish Brigades, or Wild Geese.

THE IRISH BRIGADE

The mess tent was full and the glasses were set,
And the gallant Count Ormonde is President yet.

The veterans arose like an uplifted lance,
Crying, "come raise a health to the Monarch of France."

With a thunderous cheer, now, they did as they were bade,
For King Louis is loved by the Irish Brigade.

A health to King James and to Sarsfield's wise craft
With the Georgie electors, and fiercely they laughed.

Good luck to the girls, we wooed long ago,
Where the Shannon, and Barrow, and black water flow.

You would think in old Ireland that they were afraid,
For in battle there's none like the Irish Brigade.

But surely that light does not come from a lamp,
And the boys they're all singing songs round the camp.

Hurrah boys, the morning, a battle has come,
And the generals beating on many a drum.

They rushed from the revel to join the parade,
For the sword is the light of the Irish Brigade.

They fought as they reveled, just fiery and true,
And the victors they left on the field of the few.

And they who survived, fought and drunk as before,
For the land of their hearts, they would never see more.

In farfel and field from Dunkirk to Belgrade,
Lay the soldiers and Chiefs of the Irish Brigade.

In farfel and field from Dunkirk to Belgrade,
Lay the soldiers and Chiefs of the Irish Brigade.

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 09:14 AM

There are (or were - some have been swallowed up by multinationals) several "Wine Geese" as the ones who ended up as wine making families are now known. Barton & Guestier and Hennessy (cognac) are two I remember.

Regards

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: GUEST,Mbo
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 10:25 AM

Thanks for the lyrics, Mick! I read that poem a million times and loved it! Hmm...I WAS going to make it into a song, but seeing as it's already one, I'll have to learn it. George, the Irish tradition does contain lots of stories involving geese. However, the name was given to them by the French. Just after the Treaty of Limerick and the following Penal Laws days, the French would illegally import alcohol to Ireland by ship--and would to return to France with secret cargoes of refugees wanting to live and join the army in France. The French ship captains then would write "wild geese" as their cargo on the manifest, so no would discover the Irish immigrants on board. The whole epic of the Wild Geese to me is a very sad, and also exciting part of European history. I'm still writing songs about them, and am ever thinking of writing a play with music about the Wild Geese too. Very inspiring.

--Mbo

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: BDenz
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 03:09 PM

Martin -- Are the bottles marked as "wine geese" or do you just know this?

Fascinating stuff!

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 21 Jan 00 - 03:29 PM

I just know it, I'm afraid! There was a TV series in Ireland a few years ago, tracing the various families involved. I think the term was invented then - rather neatly.

Regards

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: Áine
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 03:21 PM

Big Mick,

I'm curious about this line in the song you posted above:

'In farfel and field from Dunkirk to Belgrade,'

What's a 'farfel'?

-- Áine

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: Mbo
Date: 22 Jan 00 - 05:54 PM

He was an annoying dog on Seinfeld. "SHUT UP FARFEL!!"

--Mbo

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 03:11 PM

or similarMy guess would be "far-flung field"

Regards

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: Martin _Ryan
Date: 24 Jan 00 - 05:58 PM

Don't know how the "or similar" got to the start of the line!

Regards

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: GeorgeH
Date: 25 Jan 00 - 07:21 AM

Thanks for the info, Mbo.

G.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE IRISH BRIGADE or BATTLE EVE OF THE^^
From: Big Mick
Date: 25 Jan 00 - 09:22 PM

Damn, I should look at these things before I paste them. That was an old transcription I did off a second generation tape. The song called "The Irish Brigade" by the Wolfetones is actually an old poem called "The Battle Eve of the Brigade". As you will see in the poem, the words are "Far Foreign Field....". I assumed in my ignorance all those years ago that a farfel was an agricultural term or something. At any rate, here is the poem, as transcribed from "1000 Years of Irish Poetry" edited by Kathleen Hoaglund. Many of the songs we sing today are poems from this volume set to music.

The Battle Eve of The Brigade

The mess tent is full and the glasses are set,
and the gallant Count Thomond is President yet.
The vet'ran arose like an uplifted lance,
crying "Comrades, a health to the Monarch of France!"
With bumpers and cheers, now, they have done as he bade,
for King Louis is loved by the Irish Brigade.

"A health to King James" as they bent and they quaffed;
"And to George the Elector,"and fiercely they laughed;
Good luck to the girls, we wooed long ago,
Where the Shannon, and Barrow, and black water flow,
"God prosper old Ireland," you'd think them afraid,
So pale grew the chiefs of the Irish Brigade.

But surely that light does not come from our lamp,
and the noise, are they all getting drunk round the camp?
Hurrah boys, the morning of battle has come,
And the generals beating on many a drum
So they rushed from the revel to join the parade,
for the van is the right of the Irish Brigade.

They fought as they reveled, fast fiery and true,
and though victors, they left on the field not a few.
And they who survived, fought and drank as of yore,
But the land of their heart's hope they never saw more.
In far foreign fields, from Dunkirk to Belgrade,
Lie the soldiers and Chiefs of the Irish Brigade.
In far foreign fields, from Dunkirk to Belgrade,
Lie the soldiers and Chiefs of the Irish Brigade.

Subject: RE: 'Wild Geese' /Young Irish immigrants
From: Áine
Date: 25 Jan 00 - 10:04 PM

Thank you, Big Mick. I was wondering if a 'farfel' was similiar to the 'farkleberry' -- a bush that the Texas tufted titmouse likes to sit in . . . ;-)

-- Áine