BS: Bleeping Cyclist

Subject: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Aug 23 - 06:36 PM

I understand that as a pedestrian and public transport user I am probably of an inferior race to those who need to get about on their cycles, but these days cyclists disregarding the law is almost at an epidemic level, but these days it seems to be getting worse, particularly with food delivery riders who are not bothered about anything except earning money and think that gives the right of way on the pavement and us inferior pedestrians having the duty to make allowances for them.

There need to be a lot more enforcement so that delivery rider run the risk of prosecution for having to meet the targets that they are expected to fulfill by their employers to avoid losing pay.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Aug 23 - 06:40 PM

e bikes are even worse - they use the pavement at speed. aybe pedestrians need to pass a driving test to demonstrate lane disciplin before they are allowed to leave their homes, and in the meantime pay for supervision by a qualified walking instructor.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Aug 23 - 07:13 PM

It's a shame. Thirty or forty years ago I was commuting by pushbike thousands of miles a year. My route for years included the incredibly busy road from Woodford towards central London and often through Chingford High Road and on the South Circular. There were rush-hour jams all along the way. I weaved in and out of traffic all the time. I never ran a red light or cycled on a pavement. Not once did I encounter any aggro or intimidation from motorists. It seems that the culture has changed radically. I notice that in London these days the roads cater for cyclists far better than they used to. A cyclist is quiet, non-polluting and takes up little space. Every town and city should be treating cyclists far better, in terms of separating them from traffic, than many of them do. Having said that, being a cyclist doesn't mean being a saint. No cyclist should ever cycle on a pavement (small children excepted) or jump a red light. It's complicated, but those two rules should be immutable.

By the way, unlike my cycling son I never wore Lycra. I found baggy shorts (with the chamois gusset) and loose tops far more comfortable and far less likely to attract the automatic "look at that twat" reaction that lycra does.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Aug 23 - 11:54 PM

Vehicles are supposed to stay in the street, whether motorized or bicycles. They don't belong on the sidewalks. They're also supposed to follow the rules of the road.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Aug 23 - 03:41 AM

I have cycled on the pavement. Usually when pushed off the road by a white van or a BMW! Only when there are no pedestrians present though.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 17 Aug 23 - 03:49 AM

I wonder if the law ever got changed to allow perambulators to use the pavement. At one time they had to use the roadway and I'm not sure if it ever got an official alteration.

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 17 Aug 23 - 04:06 AM

The rules about cycling have been changed in the UK in comparatively recent times, SRS. Back when I was a keen cyclist, riding a bicycle on the pavement was absolutely forbidden, as was riding without an ‘audible warning of approach’ (usually a bell), and riding at night without front and rear lights.

In recent years, the requirement for an ‘audible warning of approach’ has been abandoned, many riders simply ignore the requirement for lights at night, and many local authorities encourage cyclists to ride on the pavement, even marking the pavements to indicate that cycling there is acceptable. This is certainly the case in my part of the Lincolnshire Backwoods. Add to that the fact that, where separate cycle lanes are provided, they are frequently ignored by cyclists who just ride on the pavement anyway.

I’m very much a pedestrian since I retired eleven years ago - I do drive when and where necessary, but I try to walk a minimum of five miles each day - and I’ve become very aware of how vulnerable pedestrians are, and how reckless many cyclists are. I’ve lost count of the number of times I’ve narrowly escaped being hit from behind by cyclists (and E-scooter-riders, for that matter) speeding and weaving around on the pavement when, owing to their not having an ‘audible warning of approach’, I had absolutely no idea they were there.

I find it rather surprising that so many cyclists - a group who constantly draw public attention to their vulnerability on the roads - appear to have so little regard for the vulnerability of pedestrians on the pavement.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Aug 23 - 05:44 AM

Like with many groups it is the vociferous minority that grab the headlines, BWM. As a motorist, cyclist, public transpot user and pedestrian I can quote you many examples of bad behavior in all of the groups. Believe it or not, particulary in Skipton on a market day, running the gauntlet of mad mobility scooter users, dog owners with extending leads and young girls with their noses stuck in mobiles can be very challenging!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 17 Aug 23 - 01:08 PM

Spot on there, Dave. Especially those deadly extending dog leads. Is there anyone here who would ban disability scooters from pavements?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: gillymor
Date: 17 Aug 23 - 05:23 PM

It got way too scary riding on the main roads around here, even the ones with bike lanes, what with all the big pickups rumbling by at 60+ mph and the rubbernecking out of towners weaving all over the road, so I sold my road bike and bought a comfort/fitness bike with shocks and started riding on the sidewalks. No incidents so far, I give plenty of warning to pedestrians verbally and by clicking my brake handles and when when there's dog or people situation that looks dicey I stop and maneuver around it on foot. I do agree though that ebikes traveling on the same track with pedestrians is potentially a dangerous proposition.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 17 Aug 23 - 08:24 PM

Cyclists do not now what brakes are for ans expect us inferior pedestrians to respect their right to not have to slaw down. As I am lucky enough to not be frail and do not need assistance for walking, I do not have the means to accidently poke a walking stick through the wheel spokes.

I have heard that one of the causes of food delivery riders not giving a toss about pedestrians safety is that they have to meet unreasonable delivery times or lose pay.

In UK we have laws that mean that householders that use unlicensed disposal services the go on to flytip rubbish can be heavily fined. We need similar laws which means that people who order takeways which are deivered by inconsiderate riders who are caught breaking the law face similar fines. having to pay $1,000 for a takeaway will discourage customers from buying from cafes/restaurants that fo not poperly supervise their riders.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 18 Aug 23 - 03:46 AM

Was it here or somewhere else I read this ....

Old lady gets cut up by a speeding pavement cyclist. With great presence of mind, she shoves her walking stick through his spokes. Cyclist goes arse over tit. Sympathetic crowd gathers round old lady; they help her to her feet, and generally check that she's OK. Fate of cyclist unknown, as nobody pays him any attention.

.... Discuss.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 18 Aug 23 - 04:19 AM

Live by the sword, die by the sword… ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 07:28 AM

.... Discuss


The Guardian 2 Mar 23

A woman has been jailed for 3 years for manslaughter after causing cyclist to fall in front of a car in Huntingdon, Cambridgeshire, UK. The woman, who has cerebral palsy, waved her arm aggressively and shouted “get off the fucking pavement” causing the cyclist to fall into the road where she died after being struck by a car. During the trial, police could not confirm whether or not that section of path was legally intended for both pedestrians and cyclists, but in the sentencing the judge declared it a shared path.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 08:41 AM

Wow, I guess I'll have to mount some kind of weapon on my handle bars to deal with disgruntled pedestrians.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 11:55 AM

"Cyclists do not now what brakes are for"

Some cyclists, SPB, and then only a minority.

I have a theory. Lycra constricts the flow of blood to the brain. The more Lycra a cyclist wears, the more stupid he becomes. And before I am accused of sexism, it is invariabley male cyclists that act like idiots

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 12:15 PM

... it is invariabley male cyclists that act like idiots

I know, from personal experience, that to be untrue.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 12:27 PM

Or maybe lycra keeps the blood down in a region where it can do some good.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 12:43 PM

Yebbut I can forgive female lycra clad cyclists...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: gillymor
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 12:46 PM

That's very generous of you but I was referring to it as an alternative to expensive ED drugs (insert smiley face here).

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Charmion
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 02:38 PM

I was walking home from the theatre one night a few weeks ago when I found myself face to face with a thirty-something man mounted on an electric scooter -- the kind with two small wheels, a little platform to stand on, and handlebars mounted on an upright thingy. I was on the sidewalk and the street was quite innocent of other traffic.

Scooter Man was larking about with a buddy, likewise mounted, and I rather suspect both of them were at least a little tipsy. He braked just in time to not hit me dead on.

"You have wheels. You belong on the road," I said, pointing into the carriageway.

"But that's dangerous!" he replied, not moving.

"Better you should be scared than you should run me down," I replied, also not moving.

"Bitch," he yelped and swooped away -- but off the sidewalk.

Scooter Man and his buddy were almost certainly tourists, the species that makes summer in Stratford such a mixed blessing. The electric scooter is a newcomer to the local scene and I hope it is a quickly passing fad.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 02:47 PM

Offering insults means he doesn't have a good argument to answer your logic.

Charmion: 1

Tourist: 0

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 03:44 PM

Charmion:

Unless things have changed there are no legal e-Scooters in Stratford:
Here

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 03:52 PM

”Charmion:

Unless things have changed there are no legal e-Scooters in Stratford:”

Nigel, I think you’re confused. Charmion is in Stratford, Ontario, Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 07:32 PM

Here in the Washington DC/Maryland area, most cyclists don't stop at stop signs or red lights unless there is heavy traffic. They look both ways and if they see an opening, they just keep going. Downtown is even worse where bicycle messengers act as though none of the rules apply to them in any way. Up here, a few miles north of DC, it's just cycling aficionados ignoring stop signs. They are breaking the law every time, and they do not appreciate being reminded.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Aug 23 - 08:20 PM

Gosh, until the mid-90s (after which one of my knees went) I cycled thousands of miles a year, for several years in just about the busiest urban area of outer London, then in rural Devon and Cornwall for four or five years after that. My daily commute was 16 miles a day (return!) in London and 22 miles a day in the Westcountry (each daily return trip involving 1400 feet of climbing). Not once did I ever break any rule of the road, nor did I ever have any altercation with motorists or pedestrians. I think that most cyclists are environmentally conscious and would not wish to harm or inconvenience pedestrians. Of course, there are always a few. It's amazing how so many people, including two or three here, jump opportunistically on cyclists, who, as a genre, are mostly very responsible. Cyclists don't create air or noise pollution and are not using fossil fuels. Remember that at least. And yet, when I mention that the vast majority of dog owners can't control their dogs and fail to clean up after their pet noise machines (come to Bude if you don't believe me), I get shot down by the "it's not my dog" brigade. I know that the odd cyclist can cause harm, but that pales alongside the health hazard that every dog at large in our streets potentially causes.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 20 Aug 23 - 04:47 AM

Hey Professor Cynophobe, the thread is about cyclists, SFA to do with dogs. I suggest that you stop being a knob, desist from the ‘Whataboutery’ and address the subject of the thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 20 Aug 23 - 05:54 AM

Most of that post was about cycling. Dogs were first mentioned in this thread by someone else two days ago. There is a connection in that both cyclists on pavements and dogs on extendable leads, or just loose, are potential hazards to pedestrians. Stop being so defensive!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 23 - 11:57 AM

Yep. Along with mobility scooter riders and mobile phone users. Should they all be banned?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 23 - 11:57 AM

Yep. Along with mobility scooter riders and mobile phone users. Should they all be banned?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 23 - 11:57 AM

Yep. Along with mobility scooter riders and mobile phone users. Should they all be banned?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 21 Aug 23 - 12:22 PM

Ban them all 3 times!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Rain Dog
Date: 21 Aug 23 - 12:32 PM

"I know that the odd cyclist can cause harm, but that pales alongside the health hazard that every dog at large in our streets potentially causes."

Potentially?

Dogs at large?

Don't see too many dogs at large on the roads these days.

I am always wary of any dog riding a bike though.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 Aug 23 - 01:07 PM

To be clear, "at large" simply meant out and about, not running loose.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 05:10 AM

I think that most cyclists ............. would not wish to harm or inconvenience pedestrians.

I live on a main road. It has a segregated cycle/pedestrian path on one side, marked by a white line and separated from the road by a grass verge. The other side of the road is for pedestrians only, who walk next to the kerb with a grass verge on the inside. There is not really enough room on the footpath itself for pedestrians and cyclists to pass safely. Despite the provision of the cycle path, cyclists of all ages use either side of the road as they want and many seem to expect pedestrians on the footpath to step aside.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 05:27 AM

If we had the confidence, we could stand our ground, it would be the cyclists who would be held accountable, and the insurance companies picking up the tab through their uninsured drivers claims premium they charge to motorists. If that means that motor insurance premiums were under threat to double or triple then parents would do something to make sure that their little darlings behaved themselves when they are out on their bikes.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 05:56 AM

... parents would do something to make sure that their little darlings behaved themselves when they are out on their bikes.

As I said above, it's cyclists of all ages who use the pedestrian-only footpath. In fact, when they are going to and from school in their uniforms, the kids generally use the cycle track. At other times, the youngsters tend to be the ones who are prepared to go 'off-road' and go round you on the grass verge. The nearer to retiring age, the more likely the cyclist is to head straight for you.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 06:36 AM

It's a very subjective observation, but I can't help thinking that there's a general increase in selfishness and downright philistinism all round. Even in good old friendly Bude, a supermarket trolley will head towards you at speed in the veg aisle and, as you jump out of the way, the perpetrator will say "Oops, sorry!" I always tell them that they're not sorry at all...

Maybe it's the world getting more crowded or people getting more miserable or something. Or me getting older and slower.

We use the Camel Trail and the Tarka Trail a lot on our bikes. The trails are intended for all and sundry: cyclists of all ages, pedestrians, runners, joggers, kiddie pushchairs, invalid scooters, the lot. There's a tacit understanding among all users that everyone shows tolerance, consideration and good manners to everyone else. It works.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 12:22 PM

And Madcap Maud was there, me boys, a fearsome sight was she
With her turbo ton-up trolley, a dreadful sight to see
With not a care for life and limb, she sped along the aisles
And many a poor shopper's life, each week was brought to trial.
.....

So I drew out my chequebook, and the tension I could feel
As Madcap Maud behind me rammed her trolley in my heel.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: HuwG
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 05:27 PM

Some of my friends keep trying to get spoof news items into mainstream news.

One of their efforts was:

"Cyclist fails to sign in to Google when he fails to recognise any image containing traffic lights."

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 22 Aug 23 - 06:10 PM

Cyclists are using an environmentally-friendly mode of transport. Most cyclists are law-abiding and considerate to pedestrians and road-users. As in every walk of life, there are a few rogues. Fair enough. Have a go. The vast majority of dog-owners cannot control their dogs and many of them behave with a completely unjustified sense of entitlement. Their pets shit and piss in the streets that the rest of us inhabit. You can't clear up your dog's piss and even if you pick up the shit (which most don't if no-one's looking) you leave a nice smear that can spread disease. My bike cost me thousands but your dog cost you next to nothing and you don't need to pay for a licence, to pay for collecting the shit from those revolting bins or to pay for getting your dog properly trained. Hotels, pubs and cafes have got to be "dog-friendly" or else risk losing custom. The dog lobby is untouchable. One false anti-dog move by a politician would get them thrown out of office, rather like those anti-gun lobby politicians in America. Yet, in this great dog-loving nation of ours, it's those cyclists who get the flack every time. Sometimes, I feel like a still, small voice...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Aug 23 - 02:34 AM

Whatever you claim to ‘feel like’, you sound like an over-opinionated, big-mouth hater who never grew up and got over his childish fear of dogs, nor his hatred of both dogs and their owners. Change the record, Professor Knowitall, we’re all sick and tired of that cacophony.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Aug 23 - 02:42 AM

The thread is about cyclists. Whataboutery is the refuge of a scoundrel who knows he has no case. If you want to discuss dogs, their owners, and their shortcomings, feel free to start another thread instead of fucking this one up?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Aug 23 - 04:30 AM

Most cyclists are law-abiding and considerate to pedestrians and road-users.

To use your words upthread, it's a very subjective observation. I don't have any figures so I want say 'most' but many cyclists seem to think that the rules of the road are for guidance and open to their personal interpretation. I used to cycle a lot before I got my free bus pass and, like you Steve, I always followed the rules of the road. I used to find it just as annoying as a cyclist as in my car, to see other cyclists threading their way through crossing traffic against red lights, ignoring no-entry signs or cycling on pedestrian-only paths.

Our local paper is reporting that, this week, seven people have been fined for breaking the cycling ban in the pedestrianised area of the town centre.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 23 - 04:44 AM

"...we’re all sick and tired..."

"All"? Have you asked everyone on the forum, or are you a psychic, a mind reader, God? Now listen. I've already explained the connection between cyclists impacting pedestrians and dogs impacting pedestrians (and everybody really). Making that link isn't even thread drift, and, as I said, 'twas not I who introduced dogs to this thread. I'm not a profligate thread-starter, but when I do start threads I actually welcome thread drift. You don't like doggie criticisms and you're resorting to accusations of "thread drift" in order to try to shut down that criticism, even when it's nothing personal directed at you. I could suggest that your tirades of insults actually prolong these sour-faced discussions. Most human beings resent being insulted and will often bite back. So, as you claim, you're a responsible dog owner. Why wouldn't I believe you? But you are in a minority as far as I can glean from the bad behaviour of huge numbers of dog owners round here and from the undeniable evidence of the mounds of dogshit that you see everywhere. I refuse to believe that dog-owning Bude residents are any different to those anywhere else. I don't like cyclists on pavements or who jump traffic lights either, but (observational evidence again) this is an extremely popular area for cyclists, both locals and holidaymakers. Almost all of them behave as they should and are non-threatening to pedestrians. They are also quiet, non-polluting and they don't leave their poo or poo-smears everywhere. The few who do break the rules fully deserve to be shouted at, of course. I suppose it could be different in some urban areas.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 23 - 04:54 AM

Well rules of the road, Doug. Don't tell the cops but I generally break the speed limit somewhere or other most times I go out in my car. In 55 years I've been "done" just four times. The speed awareness course was hugely entertaining. The guy who ran it was a cardboard cutout of Dixon of Dock Green, knee bends and pelvic thrusts included. I see plenty of drivers speeding up to get through lights on amber, dangerously cutting corners, displaying terrible road positioning when turning right, ignoring pedestrians who are trying to cross, tailgating, undertaking...

Cyclists are easy meat. They are flesh and blood out in the open, they can hear you shout, they will always come off worse in any accident with other vehicles. Shout at the blatant rule-breakers by all means, but, generally, you can't shout at the bad drivers. Their windows are up, they can speed off, they're often elderly, etc. and there are plenty of 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 23 Aug 23 - 03:19 PM

Rant on, Professor - your blustering rants and acreage of script don’t disguise the fact that you’re indulging in Whataboutery because you know you can’t ‘win’ with regard to the thread topic, and ‘winning’ is what matters most to you.

You’ve claimed, on more than one occasion, to be a ‘scientist’, yet you have no evidence whatsoever to support the claims which you always make that good dog owners are ‘in a minority’, or that owners only pick up after their dogs ‘when someone is watching’ - those are nothing more than inventions - the only evidence you do have is that **some** dog owners don’t clear up after their dogs, and you have no evidence at all of what proportion of dog owners that **some** represents. Some ‘scientist’!

You take every opportunity to post your spittle-flecked, hate-filled rants about dogs and their owners, and you started this spat with your standard anti-dog/dog owner rants, for no other reason than to draw attention away from the, in many cases, well-deserved criticism that cyclists receive. You’ll note that I don’t say ‘all’ or even ‘most’ cyclists - I’ll leave that kind of unjustifiable, broad-brush exaggeration to you.

And, if you don’t like my reaction to your attacks on dogs and their owners, don’t make those attacks. And don’t be surprised, when you do make deliberately provocative posts, that the target of your provocation reacts. When I encounter someone who’s behaved like a bell-end, I tell them to their face that they’ve behaved like a bell-end. You’ve behaved like a bell-end, so suck it up, or STFU.

Any further occurrences of you posting your know-it-all horse-shit will be treated with the contempt they deserve.

Now back to the thread topic, and people’s experiences of cyclists’ bad behaviour.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 23 Aug 23 - 03:21 PM

Shout at the blatant rule-breakers by all means, ...

Take heed of my post of 19 Aug 23 - 07:28 AM.



Of course there are many drivers who will break the law if they think that they can get away with it, but two wrongs don't make right. Cyclists get away with breaking the rules because they are not generally enforced.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 23 - 04:21 PM

I know that two wrongs don't make a right, and I've never held back from criticising badly-behaved cyclists (check my posts!). But, like motorists and even pedestrians, (and dog-walkers), cyclists are street/road users and all street-users need to show tolerance and understanding. Mostly they do, but in this thread we're singling out cyclists for special excoriation. I'm not sure that's entirely fair, though I wouldn't hold back on criticising the few badly-behaved ones. I think it's fair, and not thread drift or whataboutery, to point out that cyclists as a genre may not be the worst street offenders, not by a long chalk.

A few years ago I'd just emerged from the superb Bude butcher's shop (sadly, John the butcher died last year) with a couple of pounds of sausages in a carrier bag. As I made my way up towards Sainsburys a thuggish type of chap, somewhat Neanderthal in appearance, scruffy, hoodie, sort of thing, was heading towards me. He had a huge, vicious-looking dog on a heavy metal chain lead. As we passed each other his hound smelled the bangers and made a sudden lunge for my carrier bag, behind his owner's back. The chain wrapped itself round the chap's legs and he was well and truly decked. Excellent...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Aug 23 - 08:04 PM

By the way, my background (and university degree from Imperial College) is in science. I taught science in schools up to 'A' Level for decades and I was a chief examiner at the University of London in 'A' Level biology. There is no claiming going on here, just a statement of how it actually is. I've never "claimed" to be a scientist because I do not need to. Suck it up, John, and try not to be so rude, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 03:17 AM

I had words from a lady as I was cutting her hedge. My reply was "Am I a citizen? Is this a right of way?" no more explanation.

narrow enclosed footpath, she was more worried about her privacy, to the point she didn't lop the tops of the fir trees and thus promote growth down lower, she still has privacy. I was concerned about kids hooning around on bikes that could be motorised. Health & safety, principally mine.

UK law allows any citizen to improve a public right of way and demands that landowners maintain their borders.

She slunk off saying "I don't like it" - I suspect she was a local councillor. She knew the law on both counts, that was clear.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 10:30 AM

It's quite clear that it is putting people in cars that causes them to become law-breakers.

Steve has assured us that back when he was cycling thousands of miles per year he never once broke the rules of the road. But put him in a car and he regularly disregards speed limits (even if he's only been caught 4 times).

It is clearly the cars themselves that are the problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 10:45 AM

There is definitely something about getting into a car that can change some people's personalities for the worse. I was in town this afternoon when I saw a whole stream of cars moving slowly in convoy up the high street failing to let a young woman with a baby in a pushchair cross the road.

Well, Nigel, I don't watch my speedo enough I suppose but I don't exactly hare manically around the place.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Charmion
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 01:17 PM

Driving at the speed limit can get one into more trouble than speeding would.

In this part of the world, drivers routinely exceed the speed limit by about ten percent, and often push it more. The pedant who cleaves to the magic number at all costs will provoke fellow motorists into some spectacularly risky behaviour, especially on a two-lane highway such as Highway 7 or 8, the main drags of Perth County.

I once witnessed a motorcyclist ride the white line between such a pedant and an on-coming tractor hauling a harrow, so desperate was he to get in front of that bastard determinedly doing 79 kph in an 80 kph zone.

As for cyclists, most of them scare me when I'm driving in the city. It's not just their blithe refusal to follow the rules of the road, but also their tendency to unpredictable -- and unsignalled -- movement. The last time I nearly killed a cyclist, he was riding toward me (the wrong way) on a one-way street, in the dark. His bike may have had reflectors, but I could not see them. Fortunately, he was wearing a light-coloured tee shirt. Otherwise, he'd be dead and I'd be in court, if not jail.

Children on bikes who abruptly jink off the sidewalk to cross the street in the middle of a block -- don't get me started.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 03:54 PM

So you refuse to exceed the speed limit...what could that mean?

First, cars in the UK must have their speedos adjusted to be optimistic about speed. That's the law. Typically, a speedo will show around 10% above your actual speed. If your needle is stuck on 30, you are doing 26 or 27.

Second, so many of the non-speeders don't drive AT the speed limit as shown on their dial: they drive BELOW the speed limit.

Third, if you're an absolute stickler for the speed limit, it could mean that you're obsessed with watching your needle instead of the road ahead and behind.

Fourth, look in your mirror. If you're dragging your heels with an impatient convoy behind you, pull over. That's the morally correct thing to do. If you don't, you simply don't understand the failings of human nature that could lead to a horrible overtaking accident.

Fifth, you're not a policeman (unless you are a policeman). You don't have the right to impose your moral high horse on anyone else. Pull over. End of politically-incorrect rant.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 04:51 PM

if you're an absolute stickler for the speed limit, it could mean that you're obsessed with watching your needle instead of the road ahead and behind.

Most modern cars have speed limiters. Once set, there is no need to keep watching the needle.

It's a limit, not a target. There is nothing moral about expecting someone to aid and abet others to break the law.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 06:06 PM

There's something very moral about doing your best to prevent serious overtaking accidents once you've managed to recognise that human beings behind the wheel can be impatient and inclined to take risks when, as they see it, they're stuck behind you. To take your argument into the absurd, you might as well say that you're aiding and abetting speeding by staying at home to watch the telly instead of going out in your car when you could be leading a convoy. It's safer all round to pull over and let them pass.

As for speed limiters, well it's four miles from my house into Bude. The speed limits on that route are 20, then 60, then 50, then 30, then 40, then 30. On the way home, the same in reverse. I'd be interested to hear how your speed limiter would handle that.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Bill D
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 06:06 PM

HuwG:

"Cyclist fails to sign in to Google when he fails to recognise any image containing traffic lights."

I love it!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 06:30 PM

The speed limits on that route are 20, then 60, then 50, then 30, then 40, then 30. ........ I'd be interested to hear how your speed limiter would handle that.

My car, a Honda Jazz, has two speed limiter settings:-

one where I set the limit manually, starting at the current road speed and then moving up or down in either 1 mph (short push) or 10 mph (longer push) using buttons on the steering wheel;

an 'intelligent' setting which reads the speed limit signs and adjusts the limit accordingly.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 24 Aug 23 - 07:11 PM

I had you down as a Honda Jazz man, Doug. We had one when it first came out. We traded it in when we realised that everybody else who had one was at least 30 years older than us. Anything more than an hour's drive in that thing had me needing back surgery and the short gearbox made the engine whine on the motorway. Awful thing, even though the clever back seats would let you fit a Ford Ka or something inside. I'm sure they've improved.

My Focus Titanium reads road signs but it lets me decide what to do about them. I haven't investigated whether the car can be set to decide what to do and I haven't got the faintest interest in finding out. I don't want lane assist, pre-crash assist, cruise control, telling me what gear I should be in or any of that paraphernalia. The most unintelligent thing about my car is the intelligent windscreen wipers. The problem seems to be that they don't actually know what rain is. And. The "automatic" headlights come in without fail in low, bright sun but never in fog. I do find parking sensors to be quite useful, though my son regards them as "a bit girlie." I can lock, unlock, start and stop my car without taking the key out of my pocket. My tailgate unlocks so that I don't have to put my shopping down in the dogshit while I grovel for a key. That's quite cool.

George Carlin:

"Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?"

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 04:12 AM

The most unintelligent thing about my car is .....

I always heard it as "..... the nut holding the steering wheel".
;-)

My wife has a Focus Vignale and its speed limiter system is even more sophisticated than mine. If you drive a Focus, then I’m amazed that you had to ask how the speed limiter would cope with the varying speed limits on your journey into town. Even if you don’t want to use the various driver assist functions, I would have thought that sheer curiosity would have made want to find out how they work. Such an outmoded attitude to the benefits of modern technology surprises me, given your scientific background.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 05:20 AM

Mine is a C-Max with inbuilt satnav and has no speed limiter at all. Mind you it is 7 years old now although it is the last model of C-Max they made. The inbuilt Ford Sync satnav and sound system is crap!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 06:49 AM

Vignale? Showoff! :-)

Mrs Steve has a 2018 Fiesta ST-line which is a delight. Oddly, though it's a smaller, lighter car than mine and is 100HP as opposed to my 125, it's slightly less economical, even in eco mode. And she's no speedster either! The one thing I don't like is that it's not happy in 6th gear unless you're doing at least 60.

Why should I have to investigate things that I wouldn't want in a million years, Doug? Life's too short. You'll be telling me next to get an automatic (I'd sooner rip me top off and staple me tit to a beehive...)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 09:54 AM

Why should I have to investigate things that I wouldn't want in a million years, Doug?

Because it could save you a fine, points on your licence and possible increased insurance premiums. You have been caught 4 times. Why make it a 5th?

If you want to take account of the 10% under-reporting of your speedometer, then nudge it up a couple of mph. It's easy enough to flip it off, using the buttons on the steering wheel, if you need to get past a slow moving vehicle and then re-set it once you have completed your manoeuvre. Like all things, the more it is used, the less you have to think about it.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 10:18 AM

Four times in 55 years, Doug...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 10:32 AM

Your choice! It's a tool - you are still in charge.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 12:26 PM

Todays 'brain dead' cyclist - rode in the wrong direction along a one way street, on the right hand side (for the cyclist) of the road. When he/she got to a delivery van stopped he/she instead of swerving into the path of the oncoming traffic decided to endanger pedestrians my mounting the pavement instead. I was safe, observing this all from yards away at a bus stop!!!

What is worse is their is no clause in the Highway Code instructing to only use the pavement with extreme caution when approach stopped high sided vehicles as oncoming cyclists going the wrong way down a one way street on the wrong side of the road may not be in a pedestrian's line of sight until too late. Worse than that, the local authority failed to put a hazard warning sign for pedestrians where the vehicle was stopped. (end of very random, possiblevery passive-aggressive stream of consciousness).

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 12:54 PM

Like I said before, SPB, there are 'brain dead' in every group. I doubt very much that the proportion in cyclists is any higher than that in pedestrians, dog walkers, mobility scooter riders, drivers, nuns on roller skates or penguins on skateboards. Not whataboutery or making excuses. Just putting things in perspective. The other thing of course is that inconsiderate cyclists rarely cause death or serious injury. The same cannot be said about drivers. I tend to save my energy for the more serious transport abusers!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 12:56 PM

1969: fined £8 for 47/30 in Bolton (Moss Bank Way) in my dad's Viva. I'd only just passed my test. I was extremely miffed when my dad was fined only £6 in the same month for doing the same speed on Bury New Road.

2002: fined £60 for 47/30 in Wiltshire, two minutes after I'd been tearily tending a grave. The nice cop asked me the unanswerable question: "Did you see the speed limit sign, sir?"

2010: speed awareness course with Dixon of Dock Green clone for doing 60 in an M5 roadworks with average speed cameras.

2019: fined £100 for 87/70 on A30 near Bodmin. Sunny morning, long straight downhill, no traffic. Mobile camera in police van. Saw him too late. That was the only one that significantly put up my insurance premium.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 12:57 PM

Hey, Dave, aren't nuns on roller skates and penguins on skateboards virtually the same thing?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 01:52 PM

Damn! I have been rumbled.

Transfer to the joke thread

What is back, white and red?

A sunburnt penguin

An embarrassed nun

Or, if you excuse the spelling

A newspaper

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 04:34 PM

> aren't nuns on roller skates and penguins on skateboards virtually the
> same thing?

Try asking Linus Torvalds that .... :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 25 Aug 23 - 06:05 PM

I'm struggling a bit with that, MJTF (may I call you that?)...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 02:53 AM

Techie joke, Steve. Torvalds developed the operating system Linux. The symbol of which is a penguin

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 04:05 AM

Ahah. I knew about the Linux bit but not the penguin bit... Every day's a school day!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 26 Aug 23 - 06:44 AM

There's an entanglement of history to Linux's logo brand character ....

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 03:31 PM

Just remebered a little incident I had only a couple of months back locally when 3 drivers decided to try and kill me!

Nutters

It is little wonder that cyclists feel safer off the road when drivers cannot give way to cyclists even when the cyclist has the right of way.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 03:35 PM

BTW, before you ask, I did send the footage to the police. This was their response.

Thank you for your submission to Op Snap, sent on:
2023-05-29

This submission has now been reviewed and the following decision has been made :
No further action to be taken

As no further action will be taken, our justification is below along with any other comments:
Reference DV66EYA, MF15WWV & CN22BWA. Unfortunately this submission has gone time expired due to resource issues and a rapid increase in submissions so we have been unable to process this within the time limit. Please note it has still been logged for reference purposes.

Kind regards,

OpSnap

So basically, the police get so many reports of shit driving that they cannot action them all. :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 23 - 05:25 AM

Well, long before the era of dashcams, helmet cams or handlebar cams (or whatever cams), I was cycling home from Holsworthy to Bude one afternoon and had just reached Holsworthy golf course when the no 9 bus overtook me so close that I had to tuck my elbows in, ride in the gutter and shut my eyes praying for deliverance until he'd passed. I'd clearly been invisible to him despite my hi-viz Sam Browne belt. My shaking at this near-death encounter turned to rage and I rang the police when I got home, thinking that the bus driver could easily be identified (there were only four buses a day).

Nothing happened for weeks, then one night as I was putting the cat out (it was 11.45 pm!) a police patrol car pulled into our drive. Oh my God, who's dead, have they finally twigged which four-year-old shoplifted that licorice Penny Arrow in 1955...

"Er, everything OK, Chief Inspector...?"

"Yes, I just happened to be passing at the end of me shift so I thought I'd report back on your complaint about the bus driver...." (We are over half a mile down farm lanes from tge

The police had contacted the bus company, who had tracked down the driver and questioned him. He'd said that he had no recollection of the incident and didn't remember seeing a cyclist (!) Unfortunately, as there'd been no witnesses the police were unable to take the matter further.

I was very impressed with the police's response - but a cop car pulling into your drive at quarter to midnight!!

(I made up the Penny Arrow bit, by the way...)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 23 - 05:28 AM

from the main road. Sheesh!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 03:16 AM

Well, Nigel, I don't watch my speedo enough I suppose but I don't exactly hare manically around the place.

Fit a dash cam and you may well find you do notice speed limits. In the event, if Mr Plod sees the camera, he would commandeer the SD card. And knowing that is a sobering thought. IME

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 03:52 AM

My car dashboard shows the speed limit on the road I'm on, except when it's the national 60/70 limit, when it doesn't. .

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: BobL
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 04:07 AM

Too many points for comfort are a good incentive to self-train in speedo watching...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 04:40 AM

I was in Lodon at the weekend and visited the West End theatre land. The cyclists are well provided for with their own cycle lanes and pretty much behaved themselves, from what I could see, apart from one young lady who let the side down by hurtling downhill on Haymarket and went straight through the red light at great speed when pedestrian were actually using the crossing.

Most of the pedestrians seemed to recognise their vulnerability and waited for the green signal to cross, although there were a few who crossed to islands against the red man if there were no cars bearing down on them.

What did give problems were the roller skaters on Victoria Embankment. They were old enough to know better but hopped on and off the curb, from the footpath to the cycle lane, at will, zig-zagging in front of pedestrians and cyclists alike.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 05:19 AM

Were there any nuns on roller skates?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 05:24 AM

There might have been some penguins on skateboards but I was too busy avoiding the middle-aged men to notice.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 02:33 PM

This morning waiting at a T junction with traffic lights waiting to turn left a cyclist going my way came passed me on the opposite carriage way (double white lines) went the wrong way round a traffic island just before the lights, got to the front of the queue cut across the car there and then turned left through a red light.

Had I done that in my car I would have broken at least 3 traffic rules and ended up with at least 9 points on my licence.

It is little wonder that car drivers get p****d off with them

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 04:41 AM

He was an idiot but he is more likely to kill himself than kill someone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 04:45 AM

I have just read that speed limits do not apply to cyclists. That is crazy!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 05:54 AM

Most bikes aren’t fitted with speedometers, so cyclists can’t be charged with speeding offences. They could, however, be charged with ‘wanton or furious cycling’ if they are considered to be going too fast for the conditions.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 06:21 AM

I arrived home by bus yesterday afternoon and was about to get off on the pedestrian only side of the road. The bus had stopped at the bus stop, the doors were open and I was making my towards the exit, with a guitar case in one hand and a bag in the other, when an electric scooter went wizzing by on the footpath from behind the bus. A few seconds difference and there would have been a serious accident as he couldn't see if passengers were getting off and there was no way he could have stopped in time. He was not wearing a helmet or any other form of protection that I could see.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 08:30 AM

Another idiot Doug! Maybe the guitar case could have nudged him :-D

Cyclists can also be charged with dangerous cycling. From "The Independant"

They can however be charged with dangerous cycling under the 1988 Road and Traffic Act Section 28, which sets out that an offence has been committed if “the way they ride falls far below what could be expected of a competent and careful cyclist”.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 08:59 AM

Another problematic electric scooter!

Proof positive that, in the wrong hands, the most beneficial gadget can be a source of chaos.

Whenever I see one, I think how handy it could be for doing my messages ... But no. I'd end up dead on Ontario Street, half-way home from the supermarket.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 09:06 AM

My second eldest and his pal decided to hire electric scooters on their way home from the pub once night. They were returned to the hire point in 2 minutes and he still has the bruises!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 09:21 AM

When I lived in Germany, back in the Cold War, my favourite menace to navigation was a middle-aged woman on a moped, heading home from work with her basket brimming with briefcase, office shoes and supper ingredients, steering with one hand and using the other to secure the load. Typically, this person would find her place in the heavy Hauptstrasse traffic right spung in my blind spot, from which she would erupt without warning (Signal? Never!) to rocket through the tiniest imaginable gap between Landkreuzwagons and disappear in the general direction of suburbia.

I wondered where they trained -- the Wall of Death?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 02:56 PM

More or less universally, studies of road law breaking show cyclists break far fewer laws, and break the law fewer times, than motorists.
Virtually all bicycles sold today (apart from folding bikes) have disc brakes, which make it possible to stop not just on a dime but on a nickel.
Most road deaths, by a spectacular level of difference, are caused by four-wheeled motorised vehicles. The same with most life-changing injuries.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 03:17 PM

Incidentally… 
I've been cycling around or about 70 years now. But it's only in the last couple of years that people in cars, and to an extent people walking, have become really horrible to me.
Now, as I cycle along, people in cars jab their fingers to the side of the road, incorrectly telling me that this is where I should be cycling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phNMzsRrbNU
People drive too close to me if I'm wearing a helmet (unless, oddly, I'm carrying visible greenery or flowers on the back). If I *don't wear a helmet, my grey locks are no impediment to their impertinence in lecturing me about why I should.
Where did this nasty enmity come from?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 05:47 PM

I think it's covid!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 05:47 PM

And 99...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 02:33 AM

Could be. People are indignant about all kinds of surprising things, and they're buying (*where* do they get the money?) giant tank-like cars that can scarcely be possible to drive safely, but must make them feel safe inside in the dark there with only their phone.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: BobL
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 02:55 AM

If I were still cycling, I think I'd wear a black leather motorcycling jacket. One with metal studs down the outside of each arm.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 04:12 AM

I wear a Sam Browne hi-viz belt, relying on this to trigger memories in older people and nostalgia-fake-memories in the young from watching old shows, and make people go "Eeeek! Cop!" But a friend was puzzled some months ago when on a trip to his son's or daughter's sports field he was close-passed dangerously several times; on the way back, holding the hurley that had been left behind (for Americans, hurling is a traditional Irish game that combines hockey and psychopathy), drivers were meekly mannerly.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 09:41 AM

If e-bike riders insist on riding at speed at night with no light, the least car car drivers could do is turn their headlights OFF so that pedestrians have a better chance of seeing the cyclists undertaking them. But then, us pedestrians are inferior to cyclists, and our safety doesn't matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 03:19 PM

The latest road rules put pedestrians at the top of the tree. Buses and lorries are at the bottom.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 03:47 PM

”The latest road rules put pedestrians at the top of the tree”

That was the intention for sure, Dave, but it doesn’t seem to work very well - I don’t recall the last time a road-user gave way for me, a pedestrian, to cross at a road junction. I’d venture to suggest that examples of road-users following the new rules regarding pedestrians are, as me owd mother used to say, “as rare as rocking-hoss shit”! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 04:49 PM

Many laws don't work well at first. Change is not welcome by many but will eventually happen

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 05:15 PM

The speed limiter I'd be talking about, on ebikes, would be absolute: maximum 25km/h.
As far as I know, speed limiters for cars are mostly linked to electronics at locations with particular speed limits.
However, I understand that Brooklyn is considering speed-limiting the cars of repeat scofflaws to force them to keep it in their pants.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 07:03 PM

> Where did this nasty enmity come from?

Heinlein's Theory of Personal Rudeness: people being aggressive to one another is a symptom of a dying culture. All the more worrying, as the person being aggressive sees it, not as a sign of weakness, but of strength.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Sep 23 - 02:57 AM

Never heard that theory but it's a good one. Which Heinlein story?

The "otherisation" of cyclists is being fomented by right-wing publications. (By "otherisation" I mean the way that a group is identified with its members. So, my sister's little car was damaged by a big bruiser of a cyclist who scraped along it and didn't stop to apologise or offer compensation. If this had been a driver, she'd have been furious with *that driver*, but, a victim of propaganda, she now sees *all cyclists* as inherently evil. This is, of course, stupid, but it's being really pushed by right-wing newspapers, shock jocks and TV.)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Sep 23 - 02:47 AM

Electric bikes in the UK are limited to 17mph by motor power. You cannot limit the speed of pedal or free wheel power.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Sep 23 - 08:51 AM

Just because e-bikes can travel at 17mh that doesn't means that they should be ridden at that speed all the time without due care and attention, even on the pavement. Maybe I am wrong, and it is the legal duty of us pedestrians to make sure that we do not get in the way of our betters, and if we are not able to do so, then we should just sty at home 24 hours/day and wait for our lives to end. I am sure e-bikes and scooters are not cheap, so we are clearly an inferior race.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 23 - 09:33 AM

They are not, SPB. The vast majority of cyclists, like me, ride sensibly and with all due care and consideration for others. Playing the passive/agressive victim and tarring all cyclists with the same brush will not win you any arguments.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Sep 23 - 12:40 PM

I witness the incidence of poor standards of cycling almost every day.

Ignoring the rules of the road, putting themselves and others in jeopody.

There is a cycle hire company in the town I live in, it is on a one way street.

The number of people who cycle the wrong way down the street despite having just been told by the owners it is a one way system is astonishing. I find myself hoping they get a nudge from a car ..... or bus!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 23 - 01:43 PM

We have a lot of old codgers here in Bude and the standard of driving is execrable (I won't dwell on this outburst of whataboutery...) I have an electric Brompton which, if I wanted to, I could hammer along on at at least 20mph, which I don't. The electric assist cuts out at 15mph, after which is goes from being a breeze into being a right heavy bugger. My brommie is for tootling only.

And I've just typed a sentence there, perfectly grammatical, that has "at" twice in a row! In tandem, eh? (see what I did there?)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 03:34 AM

Of course there are instances of poor cycling standards everyday just as there are instances of poor standards in everything (and possibly getting worse unless that is just perception) But the majority of cyclists, drivers, bikers, pedestrians and even roller skating nuns are perfectly good, law abiding people. The fact that bad ones are noticeable only underlines that statement. All the facts and figures indicate that only a tiny fraction of accidents are caused by poor cycling - Google it and you will find lots of statistics about cycle accidents. None of them that I have found indicate anything to justify the demonisation of cyclists that I am seeing here.

Mind you, I suppose blaming cyclists for all our ills makes a change from blaming Muslims or immigrants. Just don't give Cruella more ideas...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 03:54 AM

If you are a cyclist,

You're quiet

You're non-polluting

You take up very little space on the road

Your machine required far less materials to make

Your machine used far less fossil fuels and water to make

Your machine will last for decades (I have a brilliant bike that I bought in 1989 that I've done tens of thousands of miles on)

Your machine is easy and cheap to maintain, needing only tiny amounts of resources

At the end of its life most of it can be recycled at the local tip, not stacked on top of dozens of others in an ugly scrapyard

The cycling will have kept me fit and saved the NHS a fortune

When I'm not using it, it won't take up space on the street or in vast car parks

I can see over hedges, breathe fresh air, work up a healthy sweat, hear the wind in the trees, get a tan and listen to the birds and bees

I can do 30 miles to the pint of water, two bananas and a Hobnob or two.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: G-Force
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 04:32 AM

But if you are two cyclists side by side on a narrow road ...

get out of the %#@&/×+ way!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 05:41 AM

Why, G-Force? How many of you are in the car? And why are you so angry?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 05:44 AM

Reminding me of the Homer Simpson line when a judge asks him "Were you cycling two abreast?" - "I wish! We were cycling to a lake!"
Why cyclists should cycle two abreast.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 06:02 AM

Yeah, bit of a misfire there, G-Force...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 06:21 AM

Why a misfire, Steve? According to you, moving out of the way is the morally correct thing to do if there is an impatient convoy behind you.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 06:42 AM

Yes it is, Doug. But the misfire comes with the extremely arrogant attitude of a bloke in his gas-guzzling tin overcoat screaming swearwords at two people who are just flesh and blood in the open air. I've been driving cars and riding bikes for well over half a century and I can't ever remember encountering two-abreast cyclists who wouldn't give way to a car behind once they'd become aware of it. Seems to me that his anger was somewhat confected. By the way, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with two abreast, when you consider that a car driver is "two abreast" whether he has a passenger or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 09:34 AM

It seems to me that the motorist has been given the ALL responsibilty for the safety of cyclists and pedestrians, that little if any responsibilty lies with them.

You may well agree with that.

However ............ the pedestrian or the cyclist is made flesh (very squishy) and bone (very brittle) I on the other hand am sitting in a steel box that weight 2.4 tons.

Your call.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 10:42 AM

Refer to the Highway Code.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 11:20 AM

I'll go along with 'misfire' for the "%#@&/×+" part of G-Force's post.

I've been driving cars and riding bikes for well over half a century and I can't ever remember encountering two-abreast cyclists who wouldn't give way to a car behind once they'd become aware of it.

As DtG pointed out, upthread, there are poor standards in all walks of life and it's the badly behaved ones who get noticed. I am surprised, however, at your claim never to have encountered the problem set out above.

The main road I live on connects the roads coming from the countryside to main roads leading into either side of town. Although we now have a by-pass, it still carries traffic of all sorts and is on a bus route. More than once, I have been in my front garden and seen a group of six or more lycra-clad cyclists go by, two abreast, chatting away, seemingly oblivious to the queue of traffic behind them. I have driven behind such a group as they left the village into the 40mph section of road, still two abreast and ignoring the segregated cycle track.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 11:42 AM

> Never heard that theory but it's a good one. Which Heinlein story?

Friday, towards the end of Chapter 23. The section thereof (pp 291--293 in my paperback edition) where Friday and Boss are discussing the symptoms of a sick culture .... chillingly prophetic, given that the book was published in 1983.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 12:01 PM

Thing is, Doug, the two-abreast ding-dong we've been having started with this:

"But if you are two cyclists side by side on a narrow road ..." That's not quite the same thing as a peloton! Of course I've seen the latter and I've been stuck behind. Two things there: first, it isn't easy, and possibly quite dangerous, for ten or twenty cyclists to be constantly falling into single file. Secondly, look at Thomson's video again. Particularly on narrower roads, it's safer and quicker to overtake a bunch riding two abreast than to squeeze all of them into the gutter to overtake them in single file. On narrow or winding roads round here we have to put up with slow milk tankers, tractors and horse boxes (and 97-year-olds in Honda Jazzes) as well as occasional bunches of cyclists (even a single cyclist can slow you down for hundreds of yards round here). Who's going to say which of those road users, holidaymakers' cars included, have more right to be there...?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 12:20 PM

To me it's not about drivers vs. cyclists vs pedestrians, it's gets down to the notion that some people are good and some people are no damn good regardless of the mode of transport.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 12:23 PM

Meanwhile, back at the subject:

Wrath at two-abreast slowcoaches: In such situations, the driver's temper was lost the previous N times it happened, and is now pre-lost and ready to go *sproing* with zero notice. (Herself's usually a gentle soul, but I've seen her catch fire from a standing start at two old biddies gossiping as they cycle along a narrow winding country road. Happily, she doesn't use her car as an offensive weapon.) Hearing a phone-answering robot produces similar hair-trigger nonlinearities in most people.

"Otherisation": a good word. I'll see you that, and raise you "particularism" (identifying oneself with a subgroup, rather than all of society) as its flip side. Mayhap it's all due to the shock of finding that other people don't have identical viewpoints to oneself.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 12:55 PM

I will never understand why drivers seem to be bouncing with rage so much of the time. They're sitting their in their comfy chair in a climate-protected room, listening to their favourite music as they glide through the roads - and yet they obviously hate the journey if anything that's going to slow it by even a moment causes them to weep and beep and screech.
Odd, too, that someone who will sit patiently for 20 minutes behind a tractor or a flock of sheep turns into a maniac if it's someone on a bicycle that's on the road in front of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 02:34 PM

... someone who will sit patiently for 20 minutes behind a tractor or a flock of sheep ....

PATIENTLY? I only have to see a tractor in the distance and my hackles start to rise - even before I've worked out if it's ahead of me, on my side of the road, or coming towards me on the other side of the road. We have lots of tractors around here.

Sheep? We don't get many flocks of sheep on the roads around here, so meeting one is something of a novelty. Funnily enough, I actually came upon one on Sunday on the back roads of the Lincolnshire Wolds. I just put on the hand brake, sat in neutral and enjoyed the pleasure of being out in the countryside until they had passed.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 04:26 PM

There was a time when a tractor would just be going a short distance before turning in to a neighbouring field. These days, it's all about contractors hired by farms, travelling many a mile at snail's pace. Most of them seem to revel in slowing everyone else down and gleefully missing many an opportunity to pull in to let the convoy pass. B*ast**ards...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: G-Force
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM

Aw shucks guys, I'm not really the angry type at all, but I do like to get a bit sweary when I'm behind the wheel, it helps to get me through the day (I actually dislike driving). I'm also a cyclist, and a pedestrian, and I sometimes tow a caravan, so I'm well aware of the different capabilities of the various users of the bit of road we all have to share. A slow vehicle in front of my car is just one of life's minor passing irritations - you can't do much about it. But two cyclists side by side and not getting out of the way of the queue of cars behind them is an example of the kind of sense of entitlement which just makes the world a less good place. A bit like dog owners, but that's a different thread.

So just pull over into single file, it doesn't hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Tunesmith
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 05:43 PM

Well, let's get real! In the UK, most cyclists ignore the Highway Code which clearly states that cyclists must not cycle on the pavement. Of the police have very worryingly decided to change the law and have - again very worryingly - been allowed to get away with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 07:35 PM

"Most cyclists"? Don't be daft!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 02:17 AM

Surely it's the driver who has the sense of entitlement? Two cyclists are the same width as one car. Drive a little slowly for a short while and you'll find a safe place to pass.
Best driver I ever met was a TV cameraman who had been given a defensive driving course as part of his professional training. I was his passenger, and was giving about about a bad driver ahead, and he remarked calmly that he'd been taught not to attach emotion to other road users.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: G-Force
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 03:54 AM

No, Thompson, not entitlement, just a reasonable expectation that a car can drive at the speed of a car unless there's an unavoidable obstruction ahead. Slow cyclists two abreast are not that, they can get out of the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Tunesmith
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 06:40 AM

My observations have more cyclists on pavements than the road; of course, this will probably vary from place to place. ALSO, it's amazing how many cyclists choose to ride on the pavement along the quietest roads imaginable. BTW, I bet most cyclist under say 30, in the UK, don't know that the law forbids bikes on the pavement. Now, how has this situation arisen? Well, ask one of those local police officers. You know, the ones with one blind eye!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 08:06 AM

> it's amazing how many cyclists choose to ride on the pavement along
> the quietest roads imaginable.

The roads with the rim-chewing potholes? I used to have decently wide rims and well-inflated fat tyres in self-defence; even so, when I had to replace one wheel, then happened to cycle on a bit of flat pavement, I was surprised how un-lumpy the ride was, thence how bad my rims had got without me noticing.

The youngsters these days have racing rims with next to no metal in them, then wonder why half a hiccup in the road surface totals the wheels.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 08:52 AM

Last night I was driving down a narrow country road just as night had fallen.

I came across two cyclists, dressed in dark colours neither of whom had a light on their bicycles .............. there are those who would suggest that I would have been at fault I had hit them.


Really!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 11:33 AM

Sounds to me, Raggytash, like the offenders were going for a Darwin Award. At least they weren't riding on the left along a Belgian road [full story available on request].

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 01:09 PM

If Raggytash had hit and killed the cyclists the court would probably consider Manslaughter as opposed to vehicular homicide UNTIL THIS THREAD CAME INTO EVIDENCE. ;^/

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 01:25 PM

There is no such offence as ‘Vehicular Homicide’ in the U.K. The nearest we have is ‘Causing Death by Dangerous Driving’.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 03:13 PM

If you were to hit unlit cyclists wearing dark clothes in the dark, I'd say it was very unlikely that you'd be charged with anything. Unless you have an example of this having happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 05:50 AM

OK, folks, you provoked me into it:

Herself's cousin was in the Belgian police force. He was brought in on a case where a coloured cyclist, wearing black at night, and cycling without lights along (I *think*) the English side of the road, was hit by a vehicle and put in hospital. As the cyclist could speak neither Flemish nor French, Herself's cousin was brought in as interpreter. He reported to us that the cyclist kept saying: "But I put out my hand to turn right ...."

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 07:29 AM

A cyclist riding in dark clothes without lights on the wrong side of the road does have a chance of being seen in oncoming cars headlamps.

However where I live, there are cyclist who find it fun swerving from one side of the road to the other - without notice - or mounting the pavement - without notice.

DoT and Local authorities will not spend money putting up proper signage so pedestrians now where cyclists are going to behave stupidly.

Also, as pedestrians, from our childhood, we are taught road drill which advises looking left and right and left again (ie a final look in the direction traffic should be coming from). We are also taught that it is safer to cross the road at zebra and pelican crossings, but not taught to keep stopping and starting while crossing the road in case a cyclist or driver has no intention of stopping at a red light. Further to that if a car or more particularly a bus, van, people carrier or any other higher sided vehicle stops at a traffic light, it is not always possible to see if a cyclist is about to under/overtake it while stopped, so the highway code should say when crossing the road, stop after crossing the path of each vehicle and check if their are any approaching cyclists or other vehicles, and wait for them to stop or jump the crossing before proceding any further.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 07:40 AM

”Also, as pedestrians, from our childhood, we are taught road drill which advises looking left and right and left again (ie a final look in the direction traffic should be coming from)”

Errrrmm…Right, Left, and Right again, surely? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 09:32 AM

Yep, got disoriented trying to envisage what direction traffic is coming from sitting at a desk (and I'm left handed). I suppose left right left would apply to most of the world except for a few countries where there do not seem to be any rules judging by the way most people drive.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 12:09 PM

Minor problem: the Highway Code was written on the assumption that people behave rationally at all times. That doesn't hold in this post-politeness era, any more than the premise which underlies most economic theories that everybody behaves as a Rational Actor.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 06:09 PM

MtF simple answer rewrite the Highway Code to encompass every possible 'what if' scenario which includes guidance for all road/pavement/ crossing users in the event of every possible infringement. No problem if it runs to tens of thousands of pages.

BTW in the 20 minutes it took me to get home tonight:
(2

(1) E scooter rider mounted and continued to ride on the pavement.

(2) E bike ride without lights, swerving onto the wrong side of the road to cut off a bend and had to swerve back to avoid a head on collision. If that had been a fatal collision, what is the bet that the police would have victimised bus users by closing off the road?

(3) Another cyclist without lights.

Police need to get off their backsides and ensure that they are working 24 hours a day (collectively)on every street to enforce road regulations. if it takes a million + extra pace, it is worth 90% pay cuts to protect people's lives.

Alternatively cyclist could start behaving responsibly.

Alternatively, if the minority of cylists/scooter riders insist on not giving a toss about anyone but themselves, seize and scrap every scooter in the UK and make Deliveroo rider who seem to be the worst offenders either walk or catch a bus to make their deliveries.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Sep 23 - 03:49 AM

Escooters certainly need some legislation. Maybe they should be treated the same as either ebikes or mobility scooters? I dunno as I have never used one

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Sep 23 - 06:57 AM

Legislation is pointless unless it is rigidly and robustly enforced, and sufficient enforcement officers are employed to make this happen on every street 24 hours/day. The only way that would happen would be for the Home Secretary/Treasury to at least double the staffing budget for every police force - which would in reality have to increase taxes, cut services, or but the burden on local authorities/metropolitan mayors. I wouldn't put it past the government, however to churn out anti-cyclist hate propaganda blaming cyclists for the lac of effective policing, or even direct blame to people coming to this country some way or other.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Sep 23 - 08:20 AM

I blame Bolivian unicyclists

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Tunesmith
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 07:19 AM

The Highway Code in the UK is joke. It seems to have great concerns about pedestrian safety but the Code doesn't reflect that. There are too many "should" rules which have no teeth; indeed as motorists ignore the "must" rules what chance have "should" rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 05:21 PM

True. Sadly :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 08:59 AM

Another problematic electric scooter!

Proof positive that, in the wrong hands, the most beneficial gadget can be a source of chaos.

Whenever I see one, I think how handy it could be for doing my messages ... But no. I'd end up dead on Ontario Street, half-way home from the supermarket.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Charmion
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 09:21 AM

When I lived in Germany, back in the Cold War, my favourite menace to navigation was a middle-aged woman on a moped, heading home from work with her basket brimming with briefcase, office shoes and supper ingredients, steering with one hand and using the other to secure the load. Typically, this person would find her place in the heavy Hauptstrasse traffic right spung in my blind spot, from which she would erupt without warning (Signal? Never!) to rocket through the tiniest imaginable gap between Landkreuzwagons and disappear in the general direction of suburbia.

I wondered where they trained -- the Wall of Death?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: gillymor
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 12:20 PM

To me it's not about drivers vs. cyclists vs pedestrians, it's gets down to the notion that some people are good and some people are no damn good regardless of the mode of transport.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 03:31 PM

Just remebered a little incident I had only a couple of months back locally when 3 drivers decided to try and kill me!

Nutters

It is little wonder that cyclists feel safer off the road when drivers cannot give way to cyclists even when the cyclist has the right of way.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Aug 23 - 03:35 PM

BTW, before you ask, I did send the footage to the police. This was their response.

Thank you for your submission to Op Snap, sent on:
2023-05-29

This submission has now been reviewed and the following decision has been made :
No further action to be taken

As no further action will be taken, our justification is below along with any other comments:
Reference DV66EYA, MF15WWV & CN22BWA. Unfortunately this submission has gone time expired due to resource issues and a rapid increase in submissions so we have been unable to process this within the time limit. Please note it has still been logged for reference purposes.

Kind regards,

OpSnap

So basically, the police get so many reports of shit driving that they cannot action them all. :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 05:19 AM

Were there any nuns on roller skates?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 04:41 AM

He was an idiot but he is more likely to kill himself than kill someone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 04:45 AM

I have just read that speed limits do not apply to cyclists. That is crazy!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 08:30 AM

Another idiot Doug! Maybe the guitar case could have nudged him :-D

Cyclists can also be charged with dangerous cycling. From "The Independant"

They can however be charged with dangerous cycling under the 1988 Road and Traffic Act Section 28, which sets out that an offence has been committed if “the way they ride falls far below what could be expected of a competent and careful cyclist”.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 09:06 AM

My second eldest and his pal decided to hire electric scooters on their way home from the pub once night. They were returned to the hire point in 2 minutes and he still has the bruises!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 05:47 PM

I think it's covid!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 05:47 PM

And 99...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 03:19 PM

The latest road rules put pedestrians at the top of the tree. Buses and lorries are at the bottom.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 04:49 PM

Many laws don't work well at first. Change is not welcome by many but will eventually happen

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 11 Sep 23 - 02:47 AM

Electric bikes in the UK are limited to 17mph by motor power. You cannot limit the speed of pedal or free wheel power.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 12 Sep 23 - 09:33 AM

They are not, SPB. The vast majority of cyclists, like me, ride sensibly and with all due care and consideration for others. Playing the passive/agressive victim and tarring all cyclists with the same brush will not win you any arguments.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 03:34 AM

Of course there are instances of poor cycling standards everyday just as there are instances of poor standards in everything (and possibly getting worse unless that is just perception) But the majority of cyclists, drivers, bikers, pedestrians and even roller skating nuns are perfectly good, law abiding people. The fact that bad ones are noticeable only underlines that statement. All the facts and figures indicate that only a tiny fraction of accidents are caused by poor cycling - Google it and you will find lots of statistics about cycle accidents. None of them that I have found indicate anything to justify the demonisation of cyclists that I am seeing here.

Mind you, I suppose blaming cyclists for all our ills makes a change from blaming Muslims or immigrants. Just don't give Cruella more ideas...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Sep 23 - 03:49 AM

Escooters certainly need some legislation. Maybe they should be treated the same as either ebikes or mobility scooters? I dunno as I have never used one

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Sep 23 - 08:20 AM

I blame Bolivian unicyclists

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 05:21 PM

True. Sadly :-(

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 03:16 AM

Well, Nigel, I don't watch my speedo enough I suppose but I don't exactly hare manically around the place.

Fit a dash cam and you may well find you do notice speed limits. In the event, if Mr Plod sees the camera, he would commandeer the SD card. And knowing that is a sobering thought. IME

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Raggytash
Date: 05 Sep 23 - 02:33 PM

This morning waiting at a T junction with traffic lights waiting to turn left a cyclist going my way came passed me on the opposite carriage way (double white lines) went the wrong way round a traffic island just before the lights, got to the front of the queue cut across the car there and then turned left through a red light.

Had I done that in my car I would have broken at least 3 traffic rules and ended up with at least 9 points on my licence.

It is little wonder that car drivers get p****d off with them

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Raggytash
Date: 12 Sep 23 - 12:40 PM

I witness the incidence of poor standards of cycling almost every day.

Ignoring the rules of the road, putting themselves and others in jeopody.

There is a cycle hire company in the town I live in, it is on a one way street.

The number of people who cycle the wrong way down the street despite having just been told by the owners it is a one way system is astonishing. I find myself hoping they get a nudge from a car ..... or bus!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Raggytash
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 09:34 AM

It seems to me that the motorist has been given the ALL responsibilty for the safety of cyclists and pedestrians, that little if any responsibilty lies with them.

You may well agree with that.

However ............ the pedestrian or the cyclist is made flesh (very squishy) and bone (very brittle) I on the other hand am sitting in a steel box that weight 2.4 tons.

Your call.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Raggytash
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 08:52 AM

Last night I was driving down a narrow country road just as night had fallen.

I came across two cyclists, dressed in dark colours neither of whom had a light on their bicycles .............. there are those who would suggest that I would have been at fault I had hit them.


Really!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 01:09 PM

If Raggytash had hit and killed the cyclists the court would probably consider Manslaughter as opposed to vehicular homicide UNTIL THIS THREAD CAME INTO EVIDENCE. ;^/

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 04:40 AM

I was in Lodon at the weekend and visited the West End theatre land. The cyclists are well provided for with their own cycle lanes and pretty much behaved themselves, from what I could see, apart from one young lady who let the side down by hurtling downhill on Haymarket and went straight through the red light at great speed when pedestrian were actually using the crossing.

Most of the pedestrians seemed to recognise their vulnerability and waited for the green signal to cross, although there were a few who crossed to islands against the red man if there were no cars bearing down on them.

What did give problems were the roller skaters on Victoria Embankment. They were old enough to know better but hopped on and off the curb, from the footpath to the cycle lane, at will, zig-zagging in front of pedestrians and cyclists alike.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 05:24 AM

There might have been some penguins on skateboards but I was too busy avoiding the middle-aged men to notice.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 05:54 AM

Most bikes aren’t fitted with speedometers, so cyclists can’t be charged with speeding offences. They could, however, be charged with ‘wanton or furious cycling’ if they are considered to be going too fast for the conditions.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 06 Sep 23 - 06:21 AM

I arrived home by bus yesterday afternoon and was about to get off on the pedestrian only side of the road. The bus had stopped at the bus stop, the doors were open and I was making my towards the exit, with a guitar case in one hand and a bag in the other, when an electric scooter went wizzing by on the footpath from behind the bus. A few seconds difference and there would have been a serious accident as he couldn't see if passengers were getting off and there was no way he could have stopped in time. He was not wearing a helmet or any other form of protection that I could see.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 06:21 AM

Why a misfire, Steve? According to you, moving out of the way is the morally correct thing to do if there is an impatient convoy behind you.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 11:20 AM

I'll go along with 'misfire' for the "%#@&/×+" part of G-Force's post.

I've been driving cars and riding bikes for well over half a century and I can't ever remember encountering two-abreast cyclists who wouldn't give way to a car behind once they'd become aware of it.

As DtG pointed out, upthread, there are poor standards in all walks of life and it's the badly behaved ones who get noticed. I am surprised, however, at your claim never to have encountered the problem set out above.

The main road I live on connects the roads coming from the countryside to main roads leading into either side of town. Although we now have a by-pass, it still carries traffic of all sorts and is on a bus route. More than once, I have been in my front garden and seen a group of six or more lycra-clad cyclists go by, two abreast, chatting away, seemingly oblivious to the queue of traffic behind them. I have driven behind such a group as they left the village into the 40mph section of road, still two abreast and ignoring the segregated cycle track.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 02:34 PM

... someone who will sit patiently for 20 minutes behind a tractor or a flock of sheep ....

PATIENTLY? I only have to see a tractor in the distance and my hackles start to rise - even before I've worked out if it's ahead of me, on my side of the road, or coming towards me on the other side of the road. We have lots of tractors around here.

Sheep? We don't get many flocks of sheep on the roads around here, so meeting one is something of a novelty. Funnily enough, I actually came upon one on Sunday on the back roads of the Lincolnshire Wolds. I just put on the hand brake, sat in neutral and enjoyed the pleasure of being out in the countryside until they had passed.

DC

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Tunesmith
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 05:43 PM

Well, let's get real! In the UK, most cyclists ignore the Highway Code which clearly states that cyclists must not cycle on the pavement. Of the police have very worryingly decided to change the law and have - again very worryingly - been allowed to get away with it.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Tunesmith
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 06:40 AM

My observations have more cyclists on pavements than the road; of course, this will probably vary from place to place. ALSO, it's amazing how many cyclists choose to ride on the pavement along the quietest roads imaginable. BTW, I bet most cyclist under say 30, in the UK, don't know that the law forbids bikes on the pavement. Now, how has this situation arisen? Well, ask one of those local police officers. You know, the ones with one blind eye!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Tunesmith
Date: 23 Sep 23 - 07:19 AM

The Highway Code in the UK is joke. It seems to have great concerns about pedestrian safety but the Code doesn't reflect that. There are too many "should" rules which have no teeth; indeed as motorists ignore the "must" rules what chance have "should" rules.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 02:56 PM

More or less universally, studies of road law breaking show cyclists break far fewer laws, and break the law fewer times, than motorists.
Virtually all bicycles sold today (apart from folding bikes) have disc brakes, which make it possible to stop not just on a dime but on a nickel.
Most road deaths, by a spectacular level of difference, are caused by four-wheeled motorised vehicles. The same with most life-changing injuries.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 08 Sep 23 - 03:17 PM

Incidentally… 
I've been cycling around or about 70 years now. But it's only in the last couple of years that people in cars, and to an extent people walking, have become really horrible to me.
Now, as I cycle along, people in cars jab their fingers to the side of the road, incorrectly telling me that this is where I should be cycling.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phNMzsRrbNU
People drive too close to me if I'm wearing a helmet (unless, oddly, I'm carrying visible greenery or flowers on the back). If I *don't wear a helmet, my grey locks are no impediment to their impertinence in lecturing me about why I should.
Where did this nasty enmity come from?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 02:33 AM

Could be. People are indignant about all kinds of surprising things, and they're buying (*where* do they get the money?) giant tank-like cars that can scarcely be possible to drive safely, but must make them feel safe inside in the dark there with only their phone.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 04:12 AM

I wear a Sam Browne hi-viz belt, relying on this to trigger memories in older people and nostalgia-fake-memories in the young from watching old shows, and make people go "Eeeek! Cop!" But a friend was puzzled some months ago when on a trip to his son's or daughter's sports field he was close-passed dangerously several times; on the way back, holding the hurley that had been left behind (for Americans, hurling is a traditional Irish game that combines hockey and psychopathy), drivers were meekly mannerly.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 05:15 PM

The speed limiter I'd be talking about, on ebikes, would be absolute: maximum 25km/h.
As far as I know, speed limiters for cars are mostly linked to electronics at locations with particular speed limits.
However, I understand that Brooklyn is considering speed-limiting the cars of repeat scofflaws to force them to keep it in their pants.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 10 Sep 23 - 02:57 AM

Never heard that theory but it's a good one. Which Heinlein story?

The "otherisation" of cyclists is being fomented by right-wing publications. (By "otherisation" I mean the way that a group is identified with its members. So, my sister's little car was damaged by a big bruiser of a cyclist who scraped along it and didn't stop to apologise or offer compensation. If this had been a driver, she'd have been furious with *that driver*, but, a victim of propaganda, she now sees *all cyclists* as inherently evil. This is, of course, stupid, but it's being really pushed by right-wing newspapers, shock jocks and TV.)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 05:41 AM

Why, G-Force? How many of you are in the car? And why are you so angry?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 05:44 AM

Reminding me of the Homer Simpson line when a judge asks him "Were you cycling two abreast?" - "I wish! We were cycling to a lake!"
Why cyclists should cycle two abreast.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 12:55 PM

I will never understand why drivers seem to be bouncing with rage so much of the time. They're sitting their in their comfy chair in a climate-protected room, listening to their favourite music as they glide through the roads - and yet they obviously hate the journey if anything that's going to slow it by even a moment causes them to weep and beep and screech.
Odd, too, that someone who will sit patiently for 20 minutes behind a tractor or a flock of sheep turns into a maniac if it's someone on a bicycle that's on the road in front of them.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 02:17 AM

Surely it's the driver who has the sense of entitlement? Two cyclists are the same width as one car. Drive a little slowly for a short while and you'll find a safe place to pass.
Best driver I ever met was a TV cameraman who had been given a defensive driving course as part of his professional training. I was his passenger, and was giving about about a bad driver ahead, and he remarked calmly that he'd been taught not to attach emotion to other road users.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 03:47 PM

”The latest road rules put pedestrians at the top of the tree”

That was the intention for sure, Dave, but it doesn’t seem to work very well - I don’t recall the last time a road-user gave way for me, a pedestrian, to cross at a road junction. I’d venture to suggest that examples of road-users following the new rules regarding pedestrians are, as me owd mother used to say, “as rare as rocking-hoss shit”! ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 01:25 PM

There is no such offence as ‘Vehicular Homicide’ in the U.K. The nearest we have is ‘Causing Death by Dangerous Driving’.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 07:40 AM

”Also, as pedestrians, from our childhood, we are taught road drill which advises looking left and right and left again (ie a final look in the direction traffic should be coming from)”

Errrrmm…Right, Left, and Right again, surely? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 23 - 05:25 AM

Well, long before the era of dashcams, helmet cams or handlebar cams (or whatever cams), I was cycling home from Holsworthy to Bude one afternoon and had just reached Holsworthy golf course when the no 9 bus overtook me so close that I had to tuck my elbows in, ride in the gutter and shut my eyes praying for deliverance until he'd passed. I'd clearly been invisible to him despite my hi-viz Sam Browne belt. My shaking at this near-death encounter turned to rage and I rang the police when I got home, thinking that the bus driver could easily be identified (there were only four buses a day).

Nothing happened for weeks, then one night as I was putting the cat out (it was 11.45 pm!) a police patrol car pulled into our drive. Oh my God, who's dead, have they finally twigged which four-year-old shoplifted that licorice Penny Arrow in 1955...

"Er, everything OK, Chief Inspector...?"

"Yes, I just happened to be passing at the end of me shift so I thought I'd report back on your complaint about the bus driver...." (We are over half a mile down farm lanes from tge

The police had contacted the bus company, who had tracked down the driver and questioned him. He'd said that he had no recollection of the incident and didn't remember seeing a cyclist (!) Unfortunately, as there'd been no witnesses the police were unable to take the matter further.

I was very impressed with the police's response - but a cop car pulling into your drive at quarter to midnight!!

(I made up the Penny Arrow bit, by the way...)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 31 Aug 23 - 05:28 AM

from the main road. Sheesh!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 03:52 AM

My car dashboard shows the speed limit on the road I'm on, except when it's the national 60/70 limit, when it doesn't. .

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 12 Sep 23 - 01:43 PM

We have a lot of old codgers here in Bude and the standard of driving is execrable (I won't dwell on this outburst of whataboutery...) I have an electric Brompton which, if I wanted to, I could hammer along on at at least 20mph, which I don't. The electric assist cuts out at 15mph, after which is goes from being a breeze into being a right heavy bugger. My brommie is for tootling only.

And I've just typed a sentence there, perfectly grammatical, that has "at" twice in a row! In tandem, eh? (see what I did there?)

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 03:54 AM

If you are a cyclist,

You're quiet

You're non-polluting

You take up very little space on the road

Your machine required far less materials to make

Your machine used far less fossil fuels and water to make

Your machine will last for decades (I have a brilliant bike that I bought in 1989 that I've done tens of thousands of miles on)

Your machine is easy and cheap to maintain, needing only tiny amounts of resources

At the end of its life most of it can be recycled at the local tip, not stacked on top of dozens of others in an ugly scrapyard

The cycling will have kept me fit and saved the NHS a fortune

When I'm not using it, it won't take up space on the street or in vast car parks

I can see over hedges, breathe fresh air, work up a healthy sweat, hear the wind in the trees, get a tan and listen to the birds and bees

I can do 30 miles to the pint of water, two bananas and a Hobnob or two.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 06:02 AM

Yeah, bit of a misfire there, G-Force...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 06:42 AM

Yes it is, Doug. But the misfire comes with the extremely arrogant attitude of a bloke in his gas-guzzling tin overcoat screaming swearwords at two people who are just flesh and blood in the open air. I've been driving cars and riding bikes for well over half a century and I can't ever remember encountering two-abreast cyclists who wouldn't give way to a car behind once they'd become aware of it. Seems to me that his anger was somewhat confected. By the way, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with two abreast, when you consider that a car driver is "two abreast" whether he has a passenger or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 10:42 AM

Refer to the Highway Code.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 12:01 PM

Thing is, Doug, the two-abreast ding-dong we've been having started with this:

"But if you are two cyclists side by side on a narrow road ..." That's not quite the same thing as a peloton! Of course I've seen the latter and I've been stuck behind. Two things there: first, it isn't easy, and possibly quite dangerous, for ten or twenty cyclists to be constantly falling into single file. Secondly, look at Thomson's video again. Particularly on narrower roads, it's safer and quicker to overtake a bunch riding two abreast than to squeeze all of them into the gutter to overtake them in single file. On narrow or winding roads round here we have to put up with slow milk tankers, tractors and horse boxes (and 97-year-olds in Honda Jazzes) as well as occasional bunches of cyclists (even a single cyclist can slow you down for hundreds of yards round here). Who's going to say which of those road users, holidaymakers' cars included, have more right to be there...?

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 04:26 PM

There was a time when a tractor would just be going a short distance before turning in to a neighbouring field. These days, it's all about contractors hired by farms, travelling many a mile at snail's pace. Most of them seem to revel in slowing everyone else down and gleefully missing many an opportunity to pull in to let the convoy pass. B*ast**ards...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 07:35 PM

"Most cyclists"? Don't be daft!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 03:13 PM

If you were to hit unlit cyclists wearing dark clothes in the dark, I'd say it was very unlikely that you'd be charged with anything. Unless you have an example of this having happened.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: G-Force
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 04:32 AM

But if you are two cyclists side by side on a narrow road ...

get out of the %#@&/×+ way!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: G-Force
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 05:06 PM

Aw shucks guys, I'm not really the angry type at all, but I do like to get a bit sweary when I'm behind the wheel, it helps to get me through the day (I actually dislike driving). I'm also a cyclist, and a pedestrian, and I sometimes tow a caravan, so I'm well aware of the different capabilities of the various users of the bit of road we all have to share. A slow vehicle in front of my car is just one of life's minor passing irritations - you can't do much about it. But two cyclists side by side and not getting out of the way of the queue of cars behind them is an example of the kind of sense of entitlement which just makes the world a less good place. A bit like dog owners, but that's a different thread.

So just pull over into single file, it doesn't hurt.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: G-Force
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 03:54 AM

No, Thompson, not entitlement, just a reasonable expectation that a car can drive at the speed of a car unless there's an unavoidable obstruction ahead. Slow cyclists two abreast are not that, they can get out of the way.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 09:41 AM

If e-bike riders insist on riding at speed at night with no light, the least car car drivers could do is turn their headlights OFF so that pedestrians have a better chance of seeing the cyclists undertaking them. But then, us pedestrians are inferior to cyclists, and our safety doesn't matter.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 12 Sep 23 - 08:51 AM

Just because e-bikes can travel at 17mh that doesn't means that they should be ridden at that speed all the time without due care and attention, even on the pavement. Maybe I am wrong, and it is the legal duty of us pedestrians to make sure that we do not get in the way of our betters, and if we are not able to do so, then we should just sty at home 24 hours/day and wait for our lives to end. I am sure e-bikes and scooters are not cheap, so we are clearly an inferior race.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 07:29 AM

A cyclist riding in dark clothes without lights on the wrong side of the road does have a chance of being seen in oncoming cars headlamps.

However where I live, there are cyclist who find it fun swerving from one side of the road to the other - without notice - or mounting the pavement - without notice.

DoT and Local authorities will not spend money putting up proper signage so pedestrians now where cyclists are going to behave stupidly.

Also, as pedestrians, from our childhood, we are taught road drill which advises looking left and right and left again (ie a final look in the direction traffic should be coming from). We are also taught that it is safer to cross the road at zebra and pelican crossings, but not taught to keep stopping and starting while crossing the road in case a cyclist or driver has no intention of stopping at a red light. Further to that if a car or more particularly a bus, van, people carrier or any other higher sided vehicle stops at a traffic light, it is not always possible to see if a cyclist is about to under/overtake it while stopped, so the highway code should say when crossing the road, stop after crossing the path of each vehicle and check if their are any approaching cyclists or other vehicles, and wait for them to stop or jump the crossing before proceding any further.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 09:32 AM

Yep, got disoriented trying to envisage what direction traffic is coming from sitting at a desk (and I'm left handed). I suppose left right left would apply to most of the world except for a few countries where there do not seem to be any rules judging by the way most people drive.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 06:09 PM

MtF simple answer rewrite the Highway Code to encompass every possible 'what if' scenario which includes guidance for all road/pavement/ crossing users in the event of every possible infringement. No problem if it runs to tens of thousands of pages.

BTW in the 20 minutes it took me to get home tonight:
(2

(1) E scooter rider mounted and continued to ride on the pavement.

(2) E bike ride without lights, swerving onto the wrong side of the road to cut off a bend and had to swerve back to avoid a head on collision. If that had been a fatal collision, what is the bet that the police would have victimised bus users by closing off the road?

(3) Another cyclist without lights.

Police need to get off their backsides and ensure that they are working 24 hours a day (collectively)on every street to enforce road regulations. if it takes a million + extra pace, it is worth 90% pay cuts to protect people's lives.

Alternatively cyclist could start behaving responsibly.

Alternatively, if the minority of cylists/scooter riders insist on not giving a toss about anyone but themselves, seize and scrap every scooter in the UK and make Deliveroo rider who seem to be the worst offenders either walk or catch a bus to make their deliveries.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 16 Sep 23 - 06:57 AM

Legislation is pointless unless it is rigidly and robustly enforced, and sufficient enforcement officers are employed to make this happen on every street 24 hours/day. The only way that would happen would be for the Home Secretary/Treasury to at least double the staffing budget for every police force - which would in reality have to increase taxes, cut services, or but the burden on local authorities/metropolitan mayors. I wouldn't put it past the government, however to churn out anti-cyclist hate propaganda blaming cyclists for the lac of effective policing, or even direct blame to people coming to this country some way or other.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: BobL
Date: 04 Sep 23 - 04:07 AM

Too many points for comfort are a good incentive to self-train in speedo watching...

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: BobL
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 02:55 AM

If I were still cycling, I think I'd wear a black leather motorcycling jacket. One with metal studs down the outside of each arm.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 09 Sep 23 - 07:03 PM

> Where did this nasty enmity come from?

Heinlein's Theory of Personal Rudeness: people being aggressive to one another is a symptom of a dying culture. All the more worrying, as the person being aggressive sees it, not as a sign of weakness, but of strength.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 11:42 AM

> Never heard that theory but it's a good one. Which Heinlein story?

Friday, towards the end of Chapter 23. The section thereof (pp 291--293 in my paperback edition) where Friday and Boss are discussing the symptoms of a sick culture .... chillingly prophetic, given that the book was published in 1983.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 13 Sep 23 - 12:23 PM

Meanwhile, back at the subject:

Wrath at two-abreast slowcoaches: In such situations, the driver's temper was lost the previous N times it happened, and is now pre-lost and ready to go *sproing* with zero notice. (Herself's usually a gentle soul, but I've seen her catch fire from a standing start at two old biddies gossiping as they cycle along a narrow winding country road. Happily, she doesn't use her car as an offensive weapon.) Hearing a phone-answering robot produces similar hair-trigger nonlinearities in most people.

"Otherisation": a good word. I'll see you that, and raise you "particularism" (identifying oneself with a subgroup, rather than all of society) as its flip side. Mayhap it's all due to the shock of finding that other people don't have identical viewpoints to oneself.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 08:06 AM

> it's amazing how many cyclists choose to ride on the pavement along
> the quietest roads imaginable.

The roads with the rim-chewing potholes? I used to have decently wide rims and well-inflated fat tyres in self-defence; even so, when I had to replace one wheel, then happened to cycle on a bit of flat pavement, I was surprised how un-lumpy the ride was, thence how bad my rims had got without me noticing.

The youngsters these days have racing rims with next to no metal in them, then wonder why half a hiccup in the road surface totals the wheels.

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 14 Sep 23 - 11:33 AM

Sounds to me, Raggytash, like the offenders were going for a Darwin Award. At least they weren't riding on the left along a Belgian road [full story available on request].

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 05:50 AM

OK, folks, you provoked me into it:

Herself's cousin was in the Belgian police force. He was brought in on a case where a coloured cyclist, wearing black at night, and cycling without lights along (I *think*) the English side of the road, was hit by a vehicle and put in hospital. As the cyclist could speak neither Flemish nor French, Herself's cousin was brought in as interpreter. He reported to us that the cyclist kept saying: "But I put out my hand to turn right ...."

Subject: RE: BS: Bleeping Cyclist
From: MaJoC the Filk
Date: 15 Sep 23 - 12:09 PM

Minor problem: the Highway Code was written on the assumption that people behave rationally at all times. That doesn't hold in this post-politeness era, any more than the premise which underlies most economic theories that everybody behaves as a Rational Actor.