what if...?

Subject: what if...?
From: Chet W.
Date: 10 Jan 98 - 12:00 AM

Here's one I've often mused about. What if our wildest sometime dreams came true, and authentic traditional music became the most popular music of our time, with our favorite performers filling stadiums and the biggest concert halls in the country (or the world, for that matter) and started making the kind of money that Madonna and Michael Jackson make, allowing them to be driven in limosines and have houses in Malibu AND Aspen. What would happen to them? What would happen to the music? Anybody have a thought?

Musingly, Chet W.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Sir
Date: 10 Jan 98 - 01:37 AM

Somehow I don't see Joan Baez and Pete Seeger dressed as Madona and Michael.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jan 98 - 03:46 AM

Well, Chet, even if that happened, I'd still prefer to sing the music myself. I used to go to concerts - now I spend more time singing with friends.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Jan 98 - 11:50 AM

I think we would all be on the Mudcat forum complaining about the latest traditional music Video, and how the images just don't seem to be what we imagined ourselves, and how the music has been ruined by the visuals on TradMtv. alice in mt

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Earl
Date: 10 Jan 98 - 11:51 AM

I think it would be the same as last time. Everyone would realize there was more money in writing their own songs and those songs sounded better when backed up by professional musicians.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 98 - 12:58 PM

the whole point of traditional music is that it IS different than slick, commercial, packaged music...no matter how well the latter is done. And if money & popularity were added in quantity, there would be dilution of the product in the name of competition. I will now relate a TRUE story from the days of the 'folk boom' of the 60's

At my university, (The Univ. of Wichita), there were some of us who had recently gotten the folk music bug...and we really did do mostly traditional stuff, for various reasons....and we actually had hootenannies etc. So the school had recently completed a new student union-with a grand carpeted lounge with a sunken fireplace and steps to sit on. So someone said,"Wow, what a place to sing...lets meet here on Fri. nite and try it...."..and we did.. about 4 of us...and it was great- strangers came over and sat and listened and we had a fine time...So, we did it again next week with more people...and it was even better...the 3rd week, word was out and a LOT of people showed up!! And the school officials came to us & said."This is neat, but it is creating a bit of a traffic jam here...how would you like to have some space in the ballroom...we can partition off one end and you can have chairs and a little stage and not clog the main lounge.?" ....Well, the ambiance was not as nice as the lounge, but we could see the point...so we said.."sure". Several weeks we did this..and popularity grew..and more people wanted to come...and the crowd grew...and it became THE place to be seen..and they had to open up the room to accomidate it all...and instead of a 'song circle', it sort of became an 'open stage' where we had to take turns...and 'wanna be' performers came out of the woodwork wanting to be 'seen' in this great venue! And the school came & said "This is getting pretty big...we had better organize it a bit more formally and require people to sign up ahead of time so we don't have more than there is room for...and we will provide a sound system and do the 'work' of keeping the lists of performers.." And they even had a local TV station come and broadcast it live!! And suddenly those of us who had started it all were finding it difficult to get a place in line..(after all, if it is on TV, you want the talent level to be a bit 'higher', so auditions were required)..and they were taking 'bookings' from groups...like a black gospel band with red, sequined uniforms ---and "Peter,Paul & Mary" lookalikes....and one night, the original 4 or 5 of us stood at the back of the hall...unable to get seats...and we turned and looked at each other and shrugged and went off to someones house and played some music..........And do you know....after several more weeks, the whole thing got so out of hand and hand and crazy and the audience reaction was so mixed..and the complications with the TV thing so troublesome that they abandoned the whole thing!! And they went around saying..."This 'folk music' thing is just never gonna work..too much dissention and hassle.."

So we did our weekend hootenannies and shook our heads....and I have seen echos of that scenario several times since, and when I can get someone to listen,(*grin* like you just did)...I tell them my true story...

And I will NOT type several more pages of my erudite analysis of the phenomenon...you all are pretty smart folk..

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 10 Jan 98 - 01:05 PM

Hey, Bill, that was a GOOD story, even if it was a bit scary. Now, do you have a happy folk story to tell us?
- © Joe Offer, 1998 -

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Jan 98 - 01:32 PM

Joe..that's the fastest answer I ever had to a post --6 minutes flat! Yep..I have some good stories...mostly involving having found this area and a a group of people who among them do almost every type of music...so I can have 'trad' when I need it...but I will think about a couple of specific ones, too....

(BTW...promised tape is made...I just need to get to the Post Office...I am well-meaning but not organized...)

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Selene
Date: 11 Jan 98 - 04:44 PM

it would probably mean that everybody would go around stealing every body elses tunes, songs or whatever, and redoing so them so they could make a fast buck, like with currently popular music. Hell, this year Freddy Mercury is dead for 5 years, and we had three remakes on his songs! and they where awfull, but they sold.

of course, it wouldnt' really be folk then, because we would know who wrote it, when, and where, and it would become "pop" music, as in popular

Selene

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bob Landry
Date: 11 Jan 98 - 04:56 PM

I can't help but think that the power brokers in today's commercial music scene would become power brokers in a profitable traditional music arena. What might that lead to?

Subject: RE: what if...?
From:
Date: 11 Jan 98 - 08:48 PM

I think Earl is right. This is not a complete "what if". Folk music got pretty popular in the 60s, and its audience conisted of people who could afford to buy records and attend concerts.

I suspect a lot of songs about "walkin' that long lonesome road" were written in the back of taxi-cabs on the way to the airport at that time.

Look at jazz. When it became a hot property you had the Gershwins and the Whitemans suddenly becoming the major jazz proponents. The blues singers and even the greats like Duke Ellington, the people who developed the art, and who understood it, became (commercial) poor relations.

Murray

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: chet w
Date: 11 Jan 98 - 11:40 PM

My original message was meant to be a real hypothetical. The "hot" folk acts of the fifties and sixties never made any real money by today's standards. I mean it's great if your creative activities (like performing music) can pay your rent and buy your food and clothes, as it did for Pete Seeger and the Kingston Trio and such. My question is, if the money started rolling in by the millions and the music didn't have to change to suit consumers, would the performers themselves be changed by their new fame and fortune? I guess it would vary from person to person. I recently saw Bob Dylan in concert and his music, his performance, everything was still first-rate. (There were 35 dollar T-shirts for sale in the lobby, though, along with caps,pins, even CD cases, but not a single recording.) I guess I really wonder how it would affect me. I don't think I'd start to tailor my music to mass consumers, but who knows?As for the jazz guys, it wouldn't have made any difference if they had changed their music in those days. In most cases (Benny Goodman AND the Gershwins are prime exceptions), the buying decisions of consumers were very much based on non-musical attitudes. Imagine how it must have felt when Elvis started getting rich doing what black performers had been doing for years. And in still more recent times, remember (I wish I didn't) The New Kids on the Block a few years ago? Their own manager, who was black himself, said that he had been searching for years for white kids who could sing and dance like the black kids that had been doing the same thing, because he knew that he'd make millions of dollars, and he did.Even more recently, the biggest selling rappers (I hate them all. I am a teacher at a school for incarcerated youth. Rap is the soundtrack of failure, criminality, and early death) were Vanilla Ice and the Beastie Boys, the only white practitioners of that vile genre on the market.Did you know that in the fifties, people like Little Richard and Fats Domino had to issue their records with white people on the cover just so parents would let their kids bring them in the house? I guess the point is, at some point, that the consuming public has never been interested in artistic integrity. They just want something that makes them feel good, and right now that something is very strict conformity. A few years ago, in 1990, my wife and I were in Prague, Czechoslovakia (now the Czech Republic). It was only a year since the fall of communism and our first visit back to my wife's homeland. On the street in Prague I saw a guy wearing a very expensive-looking leather jacket with embroidery on the back that read "Harley-Davidson T-shirt". We laughed about it, realizing that he probably didn't know what it said and that the attraction was that it was evocative of America. On that visit we saw several more things like this, but haven't seen them on subsequent visits. Just before Christmas I was passing through a fancy department store in a mall here in Columbia, SC, and I saw for sale a very expensive shirt that read "Calvin Klein Jeans". I saw somebody wearing one at a music party last night. People are paying big money for the privelige of giving rich companies free advertising. I think John Prine said it best when he wrote "It's a Big Old Goofy World". Sorry to go on so long, but this is such a great place to have these discusssions.

Thanks for participating, Chet W.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bert
Date: 12 Jan 98 - 09:54 AM

What if...?

It already happened once and the music that resulted was Country Music.

Jimmie Rodgers took what was folk music at the time and became the first real Pop star.

Commercialization is no worse now than it was then.

They set up a recording studio around his death bed to record his last six songs and after he died they even had his widow record "As the Evening Shadows Fall"

Country music is of course no worse than any other genre.
If you listen to the radio to "any" specific music you will find the same thing. About one or two good pieces in any given half an hour.
The quality ratio is about the same with albums. You buy a CD and get one or two good numbers. I can't see that changing.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Earl
Date: 12 Jan 98 - 10:06 AM

Bert, I completely agree about the radio. We have station in Boston that plays "folk" all day. It sounds like a good thing but if they played two good pieces per half hour it would be a vast improvement. On the other hand there is a lot of great recorded music that never gets airplay. If you buy selectivly you can do much better than two good songs per CD.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Alice
Date: 12 Jan 98 - 11:12 AM

Bert makes a good point about folk music turning into commercial Country Western. Chet, your story about the jacket/tee shirt caught my eye. My business is souvenir/gift garment illustration. In other words, I do designs that are printed or machine embroidered on caps, tee shirts, sweat shirts, etc., and sold in the US and Canada resorts, national parks, and gift shops, and.... yes, WalMart. The problem of designing for young men is that all they really want to buy is a licensed logo, usually a sports manufacturer. This is a reflection of the "group think" you deal with, and the desire of that demographic group to find a "leader/hero" with whom to identify. Girls, women, and older men, on the other hand, are easy to do original designs for. They are just looking for something that makes them look good.... the right colors for them, and an aesthetically attractive design. I guess we got off track here a little, but it does relate to the idea of mass marketing music "leader/heros" as well. Some people just aren't interested in finding a leader to follow. They are secure in doing their own individual music. I think part of the what if?? idea for me is, what if people started making music more for themselves at home? What if imperfect amateur music became more common, and people turned off the CD or radio, and tv and listened to themselves/family/friends making music? Alice in MT

Subject: RE: what if...?
From:
Date: 14 Jan 98 - 07:55 PM

People would much rather watch TV than sing at home, Alice. People would rather watch TV than talk, play cards, or do anything of that nature at home, not just sing. (Dismounts soapbox.)

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: leprechaun
Date: 14 Jan 98 - 10:47 PM

If I started making my own music at home my whole family would leave the house, because I can't carry a tune in a bucket, and the only instrument I ever played was a kazoo. I guess I'm just a dilettante, but I enjoy listening to good music. These are the kinds of discussions we all might have if we could ever find anybody in the Chat room. I love this site!

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bob Landry
Date: 14 Jan 98 - 11:17 PM

Alice, I'm with you. Imperfect music at home is great. I've been doing it for a lot of years and made a lot of new friends in the process. Bob

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bob Taylor
Date: 15 Jan 98 - 07:33 AM

Alice,

The great difficulty with doing your own music on CD's and tape is the same problem we all have watching someone else's home video. We as consumers have become so sophisticated in our TV viewing that we expect everything that comes from the screen to be "Broadcast" quality. The same thing happens with music. My grandfather worked in a radio station in Bristol, TN. in the early 1920's. I still have some of the "original" recordings that were made at that station of folks like the Carters, and other local folks. If you listen to them, and ignore the limitations of the equipment of the day, you hear musical mistakes, missed queues, and sometimes short bursts of disharmony, coughs, etc. The music however, is real. It is unpolished. In short, it was live. One recording, one time. Would that level of quality be acceptable on CDs, tapes, or radio today? I doubt it.

Unfortunately the entire music industry, pop, R & B, folk, rap, whatever, is all driven by one common element - MONEY. Performers are seldom chosen for stardom because of musical talent, but rather, because of their image.

Those of us here at the Mudcat Café seem to be driven by our love of music. We have all performed for friends and family, perhaps even for the local church or civic group. When was the last time any Mudcatter turned down a chance to perform because they were not going to be paid? Maybe a few of you are in that genre, but most of us are not.

I think the original question dealt more the question of whether or not money would have a damaging influence on what we call folk music. If people got rich with folk music, would the nature of the music change? Honestly, I believe it would.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Alice
Date: 15 Jan 98 - 03:49 PM

I was digressing from the original question to make my comment about the results of another "what if". I was not referring to recording your own music at home to make CD's or tapes. I was referring to singing and playing at home. (I worked in my college years at the University FM sation, so I am well aware of self-produced amateur work.) Notice above that I also made an earlier comment in the thread of how the nature of the music would change if "our" favorite type of music became as commercial as pop music. My comment.... there would be a TradMtv, and all the changes to the music that would come with that. alice

Subject: RE: what if...?
From:
Date: 15 Jan 98 - 05:19 PM

Well, I can't speak for the US but "celtic" (whatever that is) is cool in Canada now. I doubt if the artists are making the money that rap bands are, but younger people seem to be listening to it. GBS is doing a tour of soft seaters rather than bars, allegedly so that their fans under the age of 19 can attend. I can't say that I have much time for this "commercial celtic", but most certainly it is better than being bombarded with some of the racket that's out there.

When I was younger, I was uncool because I listened to music like Sam Larner singing sea shanties, and Cape Breton fiddle music. I was born twenty-five years too early, I tell you. If I was a young buck of twenty right now I'd be oozing cool.:)

Mind you, disco is back too, and I was never one to step out beneath the glittering ball. . .

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: chet w
Date: 15 Jan 98 - 10:02 PM

Well, you know, I have turned down performing opportunities many times largely because they wanted to pay nothing or very little. At the same time, I have played very many times for free if it was for a charity or a good cause or it looked like it might be fun. There is a Dixieland band in Prague that I play with when I'm there, and I mever even expected to get paid. I did get paid for playing "Sittin' on top of the world" on a tv show there. Mostly I like playing with my friends in one of our respective homes, but if you want me for a private party, always the most boring jobs, it will cost a reasonable amount of money (unless you're friend or family. I didn't charge my sister for her wedding music a few weeks ago.) I see nothing wrong with playing for money, but if it's your only motivation, make sure it's a lot of money.There were times when the money I made from performing paid the rent, and I really am glad that it paid, over the years, for all of my instruments. I even have some songs that I get paid for once in a while; card-carrying member of BMI. I don't feel like a mercenary. I write and perform what I like.

Still pure, Chet W.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 15 Jan 98 - 10:28 PM

I refuse to do free ads for anyone except a non-profit org. (FSGW tee shirts for instance), and usual cut off logos on my apparell. I found people in Prague could understand $ quite well. A taxi driver would always figure out where you were from and ask you for the fare at the official rate of exchange. Dollars at the time could be traded on the black market for about 5 times the official exchange rate. I was crossing the famous bridge (whose name I've now fogrotten) with a Russian friend, and we we approached by two men who asked if we wanted to exchange money. My Russian friend looked at me and said (in English) "He means you, they don't want rubles".

Prague joke: Why do Prague policmen always go around in groups of three? One can read and one can write and the other is to keep an eye on those two radicals.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bert
Date: 16 Jan 98 - 02:34 PM

The Charles Bridge I think.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: chet w
Date: 16 Jan 98 - 09:18 PM

Charles Bridge is right. Bruce O., you were obviously in Prague before 1989, When the communists were still in control. The taxi drivers are no better (some have become violent even) but it's at least as safe as any other city of that size. Go back if you can, look up the Steamboat Stompers, and there will even be ads for all kinds of American music in the paper.(the Prague Post is in English) With all respect to your Russian friend, there is quite a bit of bias against that nationality even today, I guess it comes from being invaded. One hint, don't try Irish music there. A friend of mine went there several years ago and played his concertina on the Charles Bridge and nobody would talk to him.

Good luck, Chet W.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Earl
Date: 21 Jan 98 - 09:31 AM

Cencerning Celtic music: I'm not very knowledgable but it seems the popular dance troups "Riverdance" and "Lord of the Dance" are examples of what happens when traditional styles go ultra-pop. How do hard core Celtic fans respond to this phenomonon?

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Alice
Date: 21 Jan 98 - 04:16 PM

At least it has revitalized Irish dance. There are controversies over personalities and egos, but I think it has been a boost for Irish arts in general.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Jan 98 - 09:50 PM

On "All Things Considered" the other night, I heard there's a new CD out of Celtic versions of Roy Orbison's songs. Gee, I can hardly wait to hear a Celtic version of "Oooby Dooby." Well, I guess the Celts gotta make a buck, too.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Frank in the swamps
Date: 22 Jan 98 - 05:25 AM

It occurs to me that we have seen this happen. In other threads people have talked of rockabilly, country, etc. as forms of folk music. I wouldn't disagree that rock & C.W. started out as a sort of folk music. Living in the age of mass communication grassroots music is bound to be different from what the old timers knew. But music business happened. The slick deal is a sure thing. We can actually see a bit of continuum. Succesful folk groups/singers do put out slick records. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that they use all the standard recording studio techniques to produce their albums. Fortunately there isn't enough money in it to draw the sharks, or enough fame to draw the pathetic.

Watch the web itself, right now it's still a kind of folk movement, but the beasties are trying to kill it. When B. Gates and his ilk are through with it, we can set our computers beside the t.v. set, eat chips, and stare at two revolutionary technologies wasted.

Frank I.T.S.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jan 98 - 11:05 AM

and in response to Joes note, it seems to me that the BlueGrassers, the Pop-Rockers and the 'New Celts' have so much hard-driving, high-energy stuff in their music, that they run thru tunes/songs like a snow blower, with about the same result....no one seems to have time to actually WRITE new songs continuously.....so everything from Beethoven to Bill Monroe to Smashing Pumpkins gets re-cycled by one of the others....some of the results make my hair stand on end!!! Expecting a Celtic version of "Uncle Penn" any day now...

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bruce O.
Date: 22 Jan 98 - 12:59 PM

Earl, There have been many snide comments on Riverdance and its sequel on the Irish music list, IRTRAD-L. The leader is affectionately refered to as called Michael Flatfoot.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Alice
Date: 22 Jan 98 - 05:07 PM

I saw a news story running several times yesterday on CNN about Loreena McKennitt hitting the pop "big time" with her lastest recording. In light of all the other news of yesterday, it was interesting to see this story about celtic/world/pop music. Along with Enya as the soundtrack for TV ads, is this the tip of the iceberg for singer/songwriters with Celtic roots? Is this the beginning manifestation of Chet's "what if?" It still seems to have to be studio produced with that driving wall of sound. As the news reporter said, "it has a beat and you can dance to it". alice, mt

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Jan 98 - 05:49 PM

Listening to Loreena McKennitt and her breathy, electronically enhanced 'Celtic elevator music' is like eating cotton candy....it is not unpleasant, but there is nothing there...and I cannot understand one word out of four without them printed in front of me.

I don't know, Alice, I think it is just one more attempt to evoke emotion in listeners without actually involving them or saying much of anything....sort of like the trendy tv commercials which flash images, but never mention a product, or young girls trying to emulate Kate Wolf by 'singing their diaries'.

Ah, well...the world changes,whether I like it or not...fortunately, I can still find a little of the sort of thing I like...perhaps Mudcat will help my taste in music to endure ....

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jan 98 - 08:56 PM

Bill, you've given me a great idea. I want to do a CD of Celtic renditions of punk songs. I'll call my CD "Dad's Revenge." My kids will finally get their comeuppance!!!
-Joe Offer, father of a punker whose "hit record" is called "Letter Bomb"-

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Alice
Date: 23 Jan 98 - 11:30 AM

Bill, when I once took a tape of Loreena McKennitt to my voice teacher, (who is a world class opera coloatura soprano) I played a bit for her so that she could see what commercial "Celtic" music is like. She said, that's enough, turn it off. You're voice is better than hers, Alice. She would be nothing without that echo mike.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Jan 98 - 01:17 PM

but echo mikes are easier to make than 'singers'....*grin*..Joe better use one when he makes his 'revenge' recording...it would be SO funny if he DID make the CD and it was considered 'cool' and became a big hit!

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bert
Date: 23 Jan 98 - 01:32 PM

I'd buy a copy.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jan 98 - 04:19 PM

Bert, I'm not sure you'd want to hear a recording of me. I sing at two Masses church at church on Sunday - partially because I have a captive audience. People come up afterwards and offer sympathy. What can I say?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Alice
Date: 23 Jan 98 - 04:40 PM

Joe, they are all thankful that you are up there to lead them. I feel lucky that my 10 year old is into the Beatles. He plays Here Comes The Sun, Yesterday, Norwegian Wood, and She's Got A Ticket To Ride, over and over on the keyboard. I've got an audition tomorrow for a part in the chorus of La Traviata. Wish me luck. Believe me, I've never made any money doing music, and from what I can see of the classical scene, they are just as unappreciated on the monetary level as our favorite traditional music performers.... now what was that about being able to moan and squeak and whisper out some adolescent angst to achieve pop stardom? Naah. We couldn't sleep at night if we sold out that way. Besides, we're too old and wrinkled to pull it off. a, mt

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: chet w
Date: 23 Jan 98 - 07:07 PM

You can have some fun and maintain your integrity at the same time. I love to take songs from one genre and put them in another. I spent one of the greatest nights of my life listening to Canadian Celtic-funk band Rare Air a few years ago. You should hear my soulful version of Walking in Jerusalem just Like John.

Chet w.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: northfolk
Date: 23 Jan 98 - 11:19 PM

what if... there was a re-emergence of music as a binding force in the anti-corporate struggle that was so much a part of "folk music" as I am sure many of us came to know it. In Detroit, Pete Seeger, Charlie King, Len Wallace, Anne Feeney at the retirement party for the editor of the United Auto Workers magazine "Solidarity". every thread should weave a stronger fabric....

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jan 98 - 01:29 PM

"What if" we knew what kind of folk music is now being created in Cuba? a, mt

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bob Landry
Date: 24 Jan 98 - 03:07 PM

Alice, you mean there's hope for me yet? ... an echo mike! ..... hmmm ..... maybe if I had an echo mike .....

(Segue to dream sequence)

We could rock some folk tunes, country-fy some R&B tunes. Hell, maybe we can even learn to do celtic blues. How about cowboy celtic? Sea shanties by a landlubber? Write folk tunes that nobody's heard before? Folk with distortion? What should be loudest, fuzzy electric guitars or a drunken electric drummer?

I could learn to control everything just like Loreena ... the music, the nuances, the image, the marketing, the movie rights, the book rights .... We could promise to so an autograph session in a Toronto music store and stand them up just like the Spice Girls. And still "watch the money roll in, roll in ...."

(Segue back to reality)

We'll continue jamming in the basement and enjoy our music with our friends. If we stretch far enough, maybe we can find a tavern owner crazy enough to put us on stage and pay us with beer. That's do-able and that's enough.

Bob - 500 miles north of Montana

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Alice
Date: 24 Jan 98 - 10:45 PM

Bob, Tell you what I want, what I really, really want... to be able to sing 'til I die. "What if" all the Mudcatters meet in a session in the eternal hereafter... and we're all wearing Max's t-shirt? alice, in mt

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: BK
Date: 25 Jan 98 - 01:14 AM

WOW! this is turning ethereal!! Too true, for me-- I rarely any more even think of playing for pay; I sing, play, often "cheat" by having the words (in large print) in front of me, and will do it most any time I can find the energy and don't have other obligations I can't get out of, all for free; in college I was more anxious/hopeful to get paid - needed it more then, and it sometimes helped a lot. Like Alice=>the fact is I want to go on singing and playing as long as possible... I'm a UU now, so I don't any more know if there IS a great jam session in the sky, but if there is, I'll be there.

BTW; just to be a curmudgeon, I guess, I do quite like some of Loreena Mckennit's work, esp "All Soul's Night," not so much some later stuff, tho she seems a bit taken with herself.. from the jacket notes.

For celtic punk, try the Pogues, esp Bogle's "The Band Played Waltzing Matilda." It's REALLY gritty.

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: bp
Date: 25 Jan 98 - 10:46 AM

What always happens when something gets big. It's on everybodies lips, is copied, people get sick of it, a bunch of old timers go on tour, it's relegated to cult status, it comes back, it gets big, etc...

The great songs and performances stand the test of time.

Music is the flower, the Music Business is the flower shop. (Robert Fripp)

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Jan 98 - 11:55 PM

" where have all the folkies gone?,
Long time passing...
where have all the folkies gone.?
long time ago...
where have all the folkies gone?
Gone to the 'flower shop', everyone..
When will they ever learn........."

well, maybe not quite all of 'em.....

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: chet w
Date: 30 Jan 98 - 08:27 PM

I think everyone should do, play, and sing whatever makes them happy. I also think they should revere whatever makes them comfortable to revere. The part that bothers me is when somebody wants to make rules, somebody wants to argue about definitions, and, worst of all, look down on people who don't meet their standards of purity. What a sham this is! Charlie Poole is still held in reverence, isn't he? What if somebody told him he should not incorporate swing into his music. Our musical heritage would be much poorer if he had heeded such advice. I think old-time versions of punk tunes sounds like good fun. Have fun, for God's sake. If you're a scholar, cataloging fiddle tunes like some of my friends ended up, do it, it's important. But don't think your ideas are better than others' because they are more pure or authentic. You've caught me on a bad day, but I have to say, what crap! I think this is Cuban folk music: Ry Cooder just produced and played on an album of old Cuban guys. The album is called "The Buena Vista Social Club".I'm digging it even as I write.

Good luck, and let live, Chet W.

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Earl
Date: 31 Jan 98 - 04:39 PM

Right on Chet! If music isn't fun, what good is it?

Subject: RE: what if...?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 28 Feb 98 - 05:11 PM

The great jazz drummer, Buddy Rich, was in the hospital and on his deathbed. A nurse asked him, "Is anything making you uncomfortable?" He answered, "Country music!" and then he died.