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BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!!
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: DougR Date: 15 Sep 02 - 03:33 PM Bob: Stop raining on Bobert's parade!!!! :>) DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: bob schwarer Date: 15 Sep 02 - 02:30 PM Remember that Dade and Broward counties were the only two to use this particular voting system. Elections are run by the COUNTIES. The Supervisor of elections in each county is in charge. The county can choose any system they wish. If Dade county bought a bummer that's their problem. Even the New York Times clone here in Polk county says in their editorial today that the Dems are blowing smoke trying to pin the blame on Bush. Bob S.
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: The Pooka Date: 15 Sep 02 - 01:32 PM DougR, y'welcome. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: DougR Date: 15 Sep 02 - 01:29 PM Pooka: Thanks for posting that article. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: The Pooka Date: 15 Sep 02 - 12:53 PM Bobert: OKOKOK. Good points, well articulated. Not bad at all at all, of a Sunday mornin'. (Now, it's off to Mass wit' yez :) But please try to feel better. Florida, and the Republic, will survive. Trust me. (Mmmwa-ha-haaa...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Bobert Date: 15 Sep 02 - 12:30 PM Pooka, et al: I can apprciate what you have shared with us *but* I'm still wondering about using race as an identifier and not social security numbers on purging a hughly disporportionate number of black folks from the voting roles in Florida. One would think that with a right as important to the survival of the democratic process that before stripping one of his or her such right that election officials would take at least one step beyond the color of one's skin. Now, when one looks at the 57,000 people who were stripped of their rights to vote in Florida who were disporportionally of minorities who voted overwhelmingly for the Democratic ticket, it is no wonder that in a state with a Bush in the Governor's mansion and a hard liner Repub running the election, there are more than just a few raised eyebrows. The appearance of a "fixed" election may indeed be more than just an appearance. Doug: Well, my friend, give this some thought. You are hearing over and over from folks on the other side that NPR is in a sprint to right. What, do you think we are imagining this, or what? Heck, it's funded by a government that has had no problem intimidating its critics. Ask Tom Daschle, after he was all but branded a traitor by the administration for not goose-stepping in time. So here, as far as a lot of us are concerned, we have Pacifica, which is looking more and more like the Alamo. The liberal media? Ha! Your guys are so scared that the one danged thing is going to get by you, like anything that is pro-human for the working clas, that your guys cry like babies. I mean, their is no compromise coming from your side. None. Nada, Zip. You guys got your extremeists, and your "boogie men", and your war drums, and your neoMcCathism in full force and you're not going to give up until labor is goosesteeping to and from the assembvly lines singing, "we love the boss". Hmmmmmm? Beam my boney, Wes Ginny butt up while I sing, "take this job and shove it", thank you Not bad for a Sunday mornin', Bobert.. Feel better? Not really. Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: The Pooka Date: 15 Sep 02 - 11:51 AM michaelr, yer most welcome. Thanks for considering the humble bureaucrat's perspective. :) I'm in Connecticut. If you can stomach more blah-blah Pookaranting on this dull subject, plus a link to my agency's website as an extra added attraction (HAHAHA!), see the thread on "U.S. Election System". --Imperfectionist Pook |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: michaelr Date: 14 Sep 02 - 10:21 PM Thanks for that perspective, Pooka. What state do you work in? Doug, it appears to me that all one has to do to discern anyone's political agenda is to listen to them. Pacifica's is as clearly stated in their programs as is Rush Limbaugh's. As to your other point -- from where I'm sitting, NPR is only slightly left of center anymore. You must be waaay over in Limbaugh land! ;-) I'll skip the hugs cos I think Bobert's got you covered. Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: The Pooka Date: 14 Sep 02 - 09:47 PM Re my above rant, full disclosure: I'm a career state Elections Officer. So, my bias is in favor of my professional brethren. (Siblren? Sistern??)/ Anyway, for those interested in dreary reality as distinguished from the joys of political condemnation and gnostic perfectionism, here's a good article (from a very non-Bushie newspaper btw)--pasted in full 'cause I dunno how long it will stay on the website: washingtonpost.com Fla. Vote Uncovers a Problem: Overwhelmed Poll Workers By Dan Keating Washington Post Staff Writer Saturday, September 14, 2002; Page A0 Florida discovered this week that spending $100 million did not eliminate the weakest link in its election system -- poll workers overwhelmed and turned off by the increasingly complex demands made on a group that has traditionally been mostly retired seniors. Voting precincts opened hours late and counts were delayed because poll workers did not show up, did not know how to deal with the demands of managing sophisticated computer-based voting machines or quit in the middle of the day. "Your service support is a bunch of 70-year-old volunteers, who, if they don't feel like working or are confused, won't work. They walk out. That's essentially what happened," said Stephen Ansolabehere, co-director of the Caltech-MIT Voting Technology Study, created after Florida's 2000 fiasco. The state notorious for voting problems was just the worst victim of a national trend. Election supervisors say they struggle to recruit volunteers and are left holding the bag when trained workers do not show up or quit. Election reform and fancy new technology do not solve the problem, they make it worse. Demanding rapid change nationwide could spread Florida's problems. "What almost killed Florida was this unholy thing that has developed where we're seeing larger and larger numbers of poll workers not show up," said Doug Lewis, executive director of the Election Center in Houston. "We're seeing higher numbers of no-shows than we've ever seen before. Any state that changed a lot of its stuff. If you expect too much of poll workers, they get overwhelmed and they're not sure if they can do the job and they just don't show up. "Federal election reform might create the same problem by changing everything at once. Politicians have to remember that implementation is important and you can't just edict changes and expect it to come off automatically." Conny McCormack, who has been running elections in Los Angeles for seven years, fears new demands from Washington. "Elections are in danger of collapsing under the weight of their own complexity," she said. "There have been so many new laws passed in states; the accelerated rate of change has created a new environment, yet we have the old structure. Look at the polling place and it's the same faces, the retirees. The new [touch-screen] equipment is too heavy. I saw an 80-year-old poll worker lifting these things of out his car. I'm not going to ask my 80-year-old volunteers to do that." McCormack was in South Florida on Tuesday to watch the implementation of new touch-screen voting booths first hand. Poll worker problems are not new to McCormack. For her primary election in March, she had recruited 25,000 volunteers, but 20 percent bailed out. "It was abdication," she said, "defection at the level of a meltdown." What saved McCormack was another growing trend: replacing volunteer poll workers with government workers on loan from other departments. County employees offer a stable pool of workers who have some technical competence and are used to following bureaucratic procedures. Several supervisors said that the historic pool of volunteers is, by definition, people who would not otherwise be working on a Tuesday. "The people available to work Election Day do not have the skills that we need," said Sharon Turner Buie, director of the Kansas City Election Board. "Recruiting is almost impossible. As everyone knows now, it's a nationwide problem. The problems are not the equipment. It's the people who have to work it." For Tuesday's Florida primary, Miami-Dade election supervisor David Leahy turned to county employees to help in his precincts. But Leahy's plan was overwhelmed by too many changes at once. Reapportionment of legislative districts was only completed in Florida in mid-summer, contributing to confusion about where people should vote. Leahy needed someone with a laptop computer in each precinct to look up the names of people who swore they were registered to vote but were not on the voting list at that polling place. Because the database search was considered the more complex chore and training time was limited, the county employees were trained for searching registered voters, but not trained on booting up the new touch-screen voting equipment. Last-minute changes in instructions for starting the touch-screen equipment then created chaos with the volunteers. In Maryland, Prince George's County had a smooth transition Tuesday to touch-screen voting. Linda Lamone, administrator of the State Board of Elections, said Prince George's had a large crew of roving technicians from the county's computer department as well as other county employees working the polls. Kansas City and surrounding counties encourage companies to make a civic contribution by loaning employees to work at polling stations or encouraging workers to use vacation days. Connecticut, Ohio and some other jurisdictions recruit high school or college students, including those too young to register to vote, to volunteer at the polls as a public service project. Election officials fear that increasing complexity has all but killed the traditional system. "We've added provisional ballots and the new voting equipment," said Lamone. "We have various new federal laws, new electioneering requirements on where they can be. They have to make sure people don't wear inappropriate things in the polling place. It's no longer this sort of neighborhood thing where everybody knows each other and go down to the local fire hall kind of thing. We were short the number of people we should have had on Election Day in probably 75 percent of Maryland jurisdictions." The task force that Florida Gov. Jeb Bush (R) appointed to make recommendations for solving the 2000 problem explicitly noted that technology was not the shortcoming {ndash} people were. As he began his examination of the latest Florida mishaps, Mark Pritchett, executive director of the task force, said most reformers had been enthusiastic about the broad changes, but were not interested in the nitty-gritty of applying them at the local level. "It doesn't matter what technology or what rules you have in place," he said. "It won't do any good if you don't have good people on the ground doing it. I found it hard to believe that poll workers wouldn't even show it, that they would come that late. It bolsters the argument that we need to get government workers out doing other things like running the machines." © 2002 The Washington Post Company |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: The Pooka Date: 14 Sep 02 - 09:29 PM Folkie folks, let's not allow our disagreements with the Bushies/Repubs (which I share) blind us to facts & cause us to blame everything on them. (1) Lyndon B. Johnson's landmark civil-rights legislation, the federal Voting Rights Act of 1965 (and subsequent amendments thereto), *required* certain states, including Florida, to record race on voter-registration records---as a means of checking, statistically, on racial discrimination in registration practices. Such laws are still in effect. Nonwhite voting, virually nonexistent in much of the South through 1964 (thus did the White Man's Candidate, Barry Goldwater, win *87.5%* of the total vote in Mississippi! and 48% even in less-ante-bellum Florida), has skyrocketed in the decades since, and hundreds of black candidates have been elected: because the Feds can check the record in comparison to the census data. The Voting Rights Act has been called the most effective civil rights bill ever passed. (2) Party enrollment records are necessary for the many states where only party members may vote in the party's primary to nominate the party's candidates---a restriction which *parties* may impose, if they wish, pursuant to their constitutional rights re freedom of association, according to an ongoing line of court decisions. (3)I don't know about the all-Republican-votes screwup in that county cited; but remember, these were internal party *primaries*, not a D vs. R election. *Sounds* like maybe the computers were designating the D primary tallies as R --- a recoverable error as long as the candidates' names were correct. (??) (4) Look: Florida fouled up, at more than the minimum predictable level. Clearly more work is needed there. BUT, if we insist on a quick, massive changeover to a whole new voting & tallying system, as Florida did --- the good old American gnostic deus-ex-machina, modern-technology-is-salvation philosophy ---then there *IS* going to be a Baseline Unavoidable Screw-up Quotient, first time out. Inevitable. Get used to it. Elections administration & equipment---and voters' behavior---is no more *perfectable* than any other human activity or manmade device; e.g., automobiles, plumbing, policing, brain surgery, street-sweeping, airport security, folksinging, news reporting, website maintenance, war. Not everything is a deep dark conspiracy. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: DougR Date: 14 Sep 02 - 02:47 PM Nope, Michaelr, I wouldn't want to see Pacifica stifled in any way. It would be nice, though, if the media that does have a political agenda would make it known to it's listeners. Too few do. I wonder if you folks get the same NPR that we do? You think they have made a turn to the right since Bush has been president? You MUST get different NPR than we do out here. They appear to so far left to me (and particularly The Diane Rheme Show)they are almost off the page! If you are looking for something more left than NPR, you're going to have to invest in a shortwave radio. DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Don Firth Date: 14 Sep 02 - 02:11 PM "If the United States can establish free elections in Afghanistan, why can't we establish free elections in Florida?" -- Daniel Schorr Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: michaelr Date: 14 Sep 02 - 02:08 PM Yes, Bobert and Elektra -- long live Pacifica! PBS and NPR have gone over to the dark side, and programs like Democracy Now (which is also airing on quite a few Public Access TV channels) and Free Speech News are the last beacon of democracy in these gloomy days. Here are some links: democracynow.org worldlinktv.org Kep up the good fight, everyone, and remember: If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention! Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Elektra Date: 14 Sep 02 - 01:53 PM I registered here in Florida in 1992 and my "race" has *always* been on my voter card, although I too question the need/motivation. While I can understand how the government might want to keep track of which parts of the populace are actually registering for _internal purposes_, I see *ZERO* reason why race should be part of the "public record". Or party affiliation, for that matter. Again, _internal use_ is understandbly necessary for things like primaries...(Although I have my doubts about that as well, it's a whole other topic, LOL.) What's the bloody point of a "secret" ballot when I am (theoretically, at least) compelled to wear my party affiliation on my sleeve? Not that anyone couldn't at least discern my race clearly just by looking at me, and if asked (and sometimes even when not) I make no effort to conceal where my political sympathies lie. ;-) However -- someone dealing with me *personally* is quite different than categorizing me as a name on a list. More importantly, for some people political affiliation is very personal, private, and NOT an acceptable topic of discussion. Then again, I have *very* strong feelings about privacy rights in general. :-)
As to the electronic voting booths, we have had them in my county since at least the last local election & IMNSHO as a voter I found them simple and easy to use. However, as to the ultimate accuracy I can make no statements. ;-)
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: BK Date: 13 Sep 02 - 09:46 PM Damn Straight! abt Pacifica... No cheers are possible abt this this topic, BK |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Bobert Date: 13 Sep 02 - 08:53 PM Michael, Ya' know, Michael, what bugs me is that there is only one voice against thousands of voices blaring out the message of the ruling class. Used to be that PBS would step out of the circle but no more. Not since 9-11 and this administration. These folks are running like "pigs from a gun". Yeah, I use to like Diane Rheme but to listen to her today, one would think she was takin' in some kind of scifi chamber and had elewctrodes stuck in her head and reprogramed. This is the scariest thing of all. As Bushcrofth tightens the noose on the truth, lots of folks are squirmin' to sound like they've always been part of the good-old-boy-right-wing network. Yeah, so long live Pacifica. The last bastian of anything that remotely resembles what democracy used to be about... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: michaelr Date: 13 Sep 02 - 07:15 PM Doug -- it's no surprise to me that you would belittle the achievements of Pacifica Radio. Fact is, though, that they're one of the few independent news and opinion sources left in this country anymore. Sure they have an agenda, and a certain slant on issues, but it's a different slant from the corporate mass media. And that's a good thing. Would you want them silenced? Democracy cannot function if critical views are suppressed. To form a balanced opinion, one must have information from all parts of the spectrum. I take in all available news, and then make up my own mind. BTW, you don't have to believe Pacifica on this one. The company in question, Choicepoint of Atlanta, was sued by the NAACP and, in the course of those proceedings, was forced to confess to doctoring the voter lists. Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Bobert Date: 13 Sep 02 - 06:58 PM Heck, wouldn'y matter too much to me if they'd arm wrestle of flip a coin "cause its become evry much a one party system.... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Kim C Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:41 PM Maybe there's a Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy that set this all up on purpose to make the Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy look bad, I don't know. Again, I propose they settle the elections with a friendly game of Risk. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Bobert Date: 13 Sep 02 - 12:02 PM Well, danged, Tweezer. There you go again tryin' to impress ol' Doud with your quick mind an' impressive inventory of wordinz... And futher mo, Iz had you penciled in as Secretary of der Blues, which is real importanz to der countree but after dis rathurd remarkable stan on der edgey-cation stuff den lookz like Dougir is rite. An', ifinz my Wes Ginny slide rule is rite as Doug seemz to be, den, danged dat's twiced dat he be rite dis week, witch far az I can see ez progress fir the ol' boy... An' we got der same problem here in dat der teachers ain't gettin paid to teach nobody to think no more, 'cauze see where thinkin' get you, don't cha. Bunch of luney-ticks scratchin' and carryin' on at der Catbox. Dats where. No. des days ets pass dis teat den pass dat one. "Hey, Johnny, you back there thinking? Well, you look like you're thinking? I'm not going to take you to talk with Mr, Woorley, again, am I?" "No, Miss Pendergrass, I promise I wasn't thinking. I just have a sore tooth that made me look like I was. I promise." "Well, okay, Johnny, but I'm gonna have to have a note from your dentist tomorrow." So, Tweezer, you got the job so you might as well start packin'. Well, it'll get ya' out a floorda and, heck, we can play bluez everynite... Boberdz |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Tweed Date: 13 Sep 02 - 07:14 AM Yer right on there, DougR. As de Education Secretary, the first thang I'd do is dump ol' Jeb's FCAT program , what seems to only be another worry fer every teacher, az Jeb and the fatcats seemz to think the teachers got more time on thar hands then iz healthy. See they got to teach the reglar textbook setup to the younguns and then somehow teach this FCAT horseshit to thar charges soze the kids kin try an' pass the FCAT test in order fer thar school to get a gud grade. If they fail this here FCAT an' suffer th' disgrace and guilt uv becomin' a "F" graded school why then he takes away thar budgit money a little more. Seemz like them schools would be the ones what needed a little more money fer teachers an' books and so forth, but I reckon he's of that "spare the rod and spoil the chile" philosophy and haz got off on sum kinda tangent in hiz thinkin'. An' then I'd put a stop to funnelin' tax dollars to the Christian skooz. Them iz some nice folks but have some funny ideas about whut to teach young folks about the beginnin' of this world and tends to leave some fairly important things out. I think I'd also outlaw havin' the school chillen to go out an' sell stuff to get a liddle more money fer their school too. We got thet bigass lottery down here to give the schools money an if that don't do it, there ought to be some more taxes on the big business fellers, who stand to reap the mos' benefits from public education of the up and coming workforce. Thar, you see? I wouldn't do to bad az sekeratariat uf Eddycashun;~) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Troll Date: 13 Sep 02 - 03:38 AM And, of course, NONE of the Florida counties are racist and Democratic biased, right Blackcatter? troll |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: DougR Date: 13 Sep 02 - 02:39 AM Tweed, Bobert: I think you two are so intent on impressing everybody with your advanced English, you find it difficult to articulate your points (assuming there are some). :>) Sounds to me as though you may have overlooked an excellent prospect for your new cabinet, Bobert. Tweed sound to me as though he would make a great Secretary of Education, or Chairman of the National Endowment for the Humanities! The latter would not be a cabinet position, but perhaps, if you are successful in packing the House and the Senate with enough "fellow thinkers," you could persuade them to create a new cabinet position for Tweed! DougR |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Blackcatter Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:22 AM not just in Florida... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: GUEST Date: 13 Sep 02 - 12:00 AM NOT abt Florida's incompetance, rather Florida's brash, unembarrassed, absolute crookedness. To hear Dubya mouthing abt American freedoms, when he & his cohorts undermine the mechanics by which the freedoms have practical meaning, like the florida vote & his buddies in congress about to let REALLY BIG corporations own ALL the media in given locations, thereby totally controlling what the people are told & rendering meaningless "free press," disgusts me. What a tragic farce. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Blackcatter Date: 12 Sep 02 - 11:53 PM Hi all For the first time, Orange County (Orlando) had problems - but it appears to be totally the printer's fault - the company - a local one who's been printing ballots for 20 years forgot to add a perferation to many of the ballots that are bound together in pad form. The poll workers had to tear them off and some messed up the verification bar code, causing them to not work in the scantron machines. oops... What needs to happen is that either election day needs to be a school holiday (or moved to Saturday), voting places should be in schools and teachers should staff the polls. I was in charge in 1994 of both choosing poll sites and hireing & training over 1000 poll workers for Orange County. Most of the poll workers are elderly and we had to work very hard to teach them to understand how to use the simplest of computers (Scantron machines like those used to grade the SAT and other standardized tests). Most of the elderly workers had never used a computer - even an ATM. Hell, most of them couldn't fill out their own absentee ballot correctly. I can't imagine the learning curve for these people in working the touch-screen computers. ________________________ That's being said, the voting practices in several counties are racist and Republican-biased. But remember, regarding Florida "losing" Gore the election. He would not have needed to win Florida if only he had won his own HOME STATE! pax yall |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Amos Date: 12 Sep 02 - 11:37 PM I think it should have read. "No matter what races voters were voting in..."...at least that would make sense. People don't use ballots to vote for a race, even in Flroida!! :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: harpgirl Date: 12 Sep 02 - 11:29 PM ...yes Kevin I thought it was "Viennesse lingerie" (or for the concrete minds...a Freudian slip as in "parapraxis") but that is what the newspaper reported she said!!!!!....hg in Flori-DUH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Bobert Date: 12 Sep 02 - 10:22 PM Yo blues, The Repubs have got the danged thing so screwed up from the 2000 election that it's gonna take them some time to unscrew it up. How would you explain it? Would you consent to Federal workers keepin' an eye on and running the elections in Florida in November and in '04? I would. And heckm I don't like Dems either, but I don't like cheaters either,,, Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Blues=Life Date: 12 Sep 02 - 10:06 PM Democratic primary. 2 Democratic counties. Democratic county election officials. Republicans' fault. Oh. Sure. Got it. Blues |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 Sep 02 - 10:04 PM "everything showed up as a Republican vote, no matter what races people were voting for."
I didn't realize people were expected to vote for "races" and that Republican counts as a race.
Incidentally, they're working on getting rid of the pencil and paper system of voting in the UK, Gareth. Too old-fashioned, they say. Makes it too hard to fix the elctions, I say. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Amos Date: 12 Sep 02 - 09:27 PM Ohhhh DougR -- you in DEEP doodoo now! LOL!!! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Tweed Date: 12 Sep 02 - 08:43 PM Yep that's right Boberdz, an' ef we cain't do no gud, we'll git that feller that the P-Vine watches on Oprah to give our Doug a talk and a lissin to. We iz gonna hep you Dougie. As the great Hunter S. Thompson once sed..."We ain't like the others...we iz yer friends" Dang it Boberdz...pass them eye wipes over here, I'm gettin' all weepy now. If we kin save this poor wretch from the publicanz we'll hav ar place in hebbin, an' thas a fack. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Bobert Date: 12 Sep 02 - 08:35 PM Yeah, Dougie, whad Tweezer said. But befo youz get going come on over hear and get a big ol' Boberdz hug, there Beg Guy. Thare, no doncha feel bedder. Now come on now and go 'head an spill yo gutz to us. Heck, wez ani't doin' nuthin no wyaz and wez got plentee of der Kleen X'z don't we Tweezer... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Tweed Date: 12 Sep 02 - 08:22 PM Yer deluded DougR. Here drink this ice cold Budweiser and sit down on the porch. Me and Boberdz kin hep you wif this disfuncshunal thinkin' you got goin' on. Now why eggzackly is it thet folks like you despise ennyone who wants to help folks who ain't got as much as you do? Come on now, get it all outta yer system, you'll feel a whole lot better. |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: DougR Date: 12 Sep 02 - 04:16 PM Troll: There you go again! Will you please stop confusing Michaelr with facts?!! Pacifica Radio? The end all know all network michaelr? That certainly would make it true then I suppose. Geeze. The controversy down there is between two Democrats! If the Demos can't run their own primary, what else is there to say? Can't blame the Republicans. Personally, I hope Janet Reno comes out on top if there is a recount. Jeb Bush will take her apart on her do nothing years as Attorney General. DougR |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: curmudgeon Date: 12 Sep 02 - 10:04 AM The only "freedom" protected in the "war on terrorism" and the USA Scoundrel Act, is to reap enormous profits. |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: GUEST,Greg F. (remote machine) Date: 12 Sep 02 - 09:58 AM The absolute BEST part about the touch-screen and other computer voting machines in this age of computer fraud by 12-year-old hackers is that they are so easy to rig! And there's no paper trail whatsoever or other way to verify what the vote actually was. Recount? WHAT recount? Talk about a false sense of security! I'd go with the paper ballot & pencil. Best, Greg |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: GUEST,Ceejay Date: 12 Sep 02 - 09:47 AM This would be all good fun if it weren't that Florida decided not only the last US Presidential election but also the de facto leadership of the western world. Its not really that funny or if it is, the joke is on us all, not just the Floridans. I am surprised that so few people seem anxious to take up the point about one's 'race' being recorded on ballot papers. Isn't that in breach of the US Constitution? Doesn't anyone care? If the 'war on terrorism' isn't to protect those freedoms that seemingly no one cares about, how much longer can we expect to retain those freedoms we still do care about? Or is the 'war' really about protecting the right of big business to make money regardless of the rights or the safety of 'ordinary people'? |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: SharonA Date: 12 Sep 02 - 09:20 AM Nigel: Good point. Silly me, for not catching that! *G* |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: harpgirl Date: 12 Sep 02 - 07:52 AM ...still counting votes in (as Leno calls it): Flori-DUH |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:27 PM Sorry, they don't take to lesbians in Florida.
Remember Minute Maid Orange Juice?
Perhaps Rino will have better results in the more "democratic" north.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Amos Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:21 PM So tonight as soon as the first precinct was recorded, everything showed up as a Republican vote I knew Jeb's Raiders could rig any process ever devised, but this is the first time Ihave heard of them hacking the actual hardware. Desperation? A |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: harpgirl Date: 11 Sep 02 - 09:38 PM ...yes Tweed, now that I look, I am listed as a M 5, IDT which means male - white, not of hispanic origin according to the "race codes!" And this in Leon county, which brags about no voting problems!
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Tweed Date: 11 Sep 02 - 08:01 PM 24 hours later and still no declared winner down here...again. Hadn't heard anything about a totally Republican county Harpgirl. The lines down this way must be down. I'll keep looking for it, but I expect it'll get swept away. Heard a sound byte from Jeb, who wondered in front of the cameras, "What's wrong with these Democrats? Why can't they vote right?" I'll ask this one again cause I'm real interested to know....Anybody else have their race stamped on their voter registration cards out there? |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Nigel Parsons Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:34 AM SharonA: I think it's "Fixed" already Nigel |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: SharonA Date: 11 Sep 02 - 11:12 AM I heard on the TV last night that the polls in Florida stayed open for an extra two hours because of the problems with the new voting machines. I heard on the radio this morning that the polling places in some counties closed at the previously appointed time despite being ORDERED to stay open those extra two hours!! There was a "sound-bite" of an interview with someone who said that it would take some time to fix the voting problems in Florida. My immediate thought was that they won't be fixed until after the 2004 presidential election. |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: harpgirl Date: 11 Sep 02 - 08:45 AM This from the morning mullett wrapper: Union county's optical scan system that tallied ballots marked with special pens showed that every vote cast was for a Republican candidate. The machines were tested without any problems last week but those tests were preformed with incorrect ballots. Debbie Osborne, North Florida Union county assistant supervisor of elections said, "The wrong test ballots were sent. We didn't know it. So tonight as soon as the first precinct was recorded, everything showed up as a Republican vote, no matter what races people were voting for." Sounds fishy to me.... |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Tweed Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:49 AM I guess so Banjer. I live in Palm Beach County and there were only "minor" problems here, like two registration cards with different precincts sent to many individuals and screwed up legal notices published in the Post by our Supervisor of Selections. The touch screens worked well, but with the level of trust down here, I have to kick myself to keep from wondering if all ballot info is really going anywhere. By the way, any other Floridian Mudcatters notice that your race is noted on your registration card? Just wondering as mine shows my birthdate, then W - M -DEM on there. What's my race or anybody elses' have to do with a vote card? That went out a long time ago didn't it?.... Whoops~ fergot whar the hell I live. Tweed |
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Subject: RE: Florida: voting falls flat again!! From: Banjer Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:30 AM I heard our Secretary of State say, when asked his thoughts on the matter, 'I wonder what in the hell have they been doing the last two years'....Speaking of the folks responsible for assembling the new voting systems. This added to all the woes brought upon us by the Department of Children and Families (DCF) not being able to account for all the children in their care, actually losing some 140 or so....Are we the only state with these kind of monumental problems??? |