Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)

Subject: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 04:52 AM

Well, I'm sorting out a guitar for my daughter for Xmas, and hoping to start some work on some others (more threads later maybe) soon.

So I emailed a number of manufacturers including Pick-Up-the World (of whom the mudcat has good reports) for certain information. Result - absolute silence so far.

THen I dug out an old (but unused) Shadow and fitted that. There was a problem, so I emailed Shadow, got an immediate helpful response, and with their help and the exchange of several emails I now have quite a bit of useful information and a working pickup.

I am grateful for their time.

Guess who gets the first hit on their website next time I am looking for a pickup?

But what do people here think of their pickups..?

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: mooman
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 06:02 AM

I've fitted quite a number of Shadows for people and the results have been quite acceptable for the price. Back in the 80s they were the one of very few manufacturers to provide a decent under saddle pickup system.

I have fitted a PUTW #27 to my own guitar and find the sound absolutely excellent, the closest to a "microphone-like" sound I've found. I didn't actually need to contact PUTW for technical help but others on Mudcat have reported them as normally being good on technical back-up. I'm sorry to hear that you didn't receive a reply.

I agree with you that one tends to naturally go back to people you have had a good experience with and I'm pleased Shadow took the time to help you out.

Best regards,

mooman

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: JedMarum
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 10:08 AM

I too have used the PUTW products and been very happy with the results. I also had reason to look for help from the twice and did so via email. I got answers the same day - actaully the same afternoon, both times. BUT, if a small company becomes successful, they may not manage their customer service as well, and the result may be what happens to you. Likewise, if they've become unsuccessful they may be bureid for other reasons! I don't much about these guys, except they had a great product.

I don't know Shadow. I have used several fishman products and I have to say that these guys do not make a bad product! Their Matrix pick ups are excellent, their Rare Earth series likewise. Their pre-amps seem to be good too, but I do not use these products as much. I like the sound of the Fishman blends - but I have to say that I do not believe they are a practical solution (placing a mic inside your guitar is the worng place for it, unless you like the sound of a mc in a box - also using a mic on-stage defeats the purpose of a pick-up, microphone are the enemy to a stage - also if you are using a mic, you ought to have a sound engineer at the back of the room setting its levels - these are generalities, of course, but they are my cheif reasons for staying away from blenders).

I've heard nothing but raves about LR Baggs products, but I can't say I've heard any that are better then Fishman or PUTW. They reputedly have superior electronics for their pick ups, and that may be true, but I know a few folks who use them, and I cannot say they sound as good as the others I've mentioned.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 12:50 PM

A frind of mine is very keen on the LR Baggs I-beam, but I think it is very expensive.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,michaelr
Date: 26 Nov 02 - 08:57 PM

Sorry, NetZero ate my cookie...

Has anyone here tried the Schertler Bluestick pickup? It's a new Swiss-made product that they advertise as an "under-saddle condenser mic" (???)

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 04:50 AM

How much does that bluestick cost?

I've emailed PUTW again and we'll wait and see.

Incidentally, (thread drift) I am also finding it hard to get info back from the Bridge Doctor people. Any experiences out there?

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: michaelr
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 02:25 PM

Here is the website for the Bluestick pickup, but no pricing info. Seems like Emmylou uses it!

Shadow is a German company. I used one of theirs years ago and wasn't impressed with the sound, but they've probably evolved.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 06:23 PM

I got a response from JLD Bridge Doctor. Helpful but it may be not what I need.

Still nothing from PUTW despite a reminder email.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: CraigS
Date: 27 Nov 02 - 08:04 PM

The most helpful pickup man I have ever come across is Kent Armstrong - he does custom wound electric pick-ups, which I'd recommend to anybody. However, I don't think he does a contact pickup.
The following remarks apply to contact pickup quality -can't say how helpful the manufacturers are -
I've tried Shadow pickups a long time ago, but I didn't like the sound. I've had Barcus Berry pickups that I liked a lot, an Ibanez that was usable, a Dion Rat II that worked okay, and a Dean Markley that sounds good but the lead picks up noise. As far as I can see the best price/performance combinations in GB/Europe come from Schaller, but they cost a bit more in the US. Their cheapest model for use by the public retails at less than £25 from most significant music shops and is as good as my old Barcus Berry Junior in my opinion. On the other hand, when I used to sing jazz 25 years ago, we regularly used the Barcus Berry Junior on the piano soundboard, and it worked fine - never tried that with a Schaller!

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: mooman
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 04:33 AM

If in Europe, one might consider Ashworth also (UK-based). I have one fitted into the adjustable bridge on my Docherty octave mandola and the sound is excellent.

Here is a blue clickable thingy to their website.

Peace

mooman

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 04:35 AM

I have a schaller oyster.

It sounds nothing like a guitar on either my wife's acoustic or mine.

I have three other contact mics. Ditto.

I have an old magnetic soundhole. Ditto.

Undersaddles usually twang too much, but it's the closest yet - so maybe a PUTW if they ever send me the info.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: mooman
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 04:56 AM

I should have added above that all the Shadows I fitted many years ago were active undersaddle models and as Richard says undersaddles generally have their drawbacks (usually too much "quack" or "twang"). But, at that time, they were the best that were available and the sound was broadly acceptable.

These days technology has moved on and, to date (still doing some guitar repair and setup although not full-time these days), the PUTW is the best I've found. I haven't fitted a Baggs i-Beam or K&K Western yet but have read good reviews about them and have played an i-Beam fitted guitar that sounded good.

mooman

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Frankham
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 12:56 PM

The best I've come across, for me, is the Sunrise. It's a magnetic pickup but it does pick up some wood vibrations and it has a humbucking feature which keeps it from feeding back. With the added pre-amp it sounds great!

Frank

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 28 Nov 02 - 02:15 PM

Hi. I have two boxes full of pickups, and naturally NONE of them will make instruments sound acoustic. Some of the earlier ones like the Barcus Berry, and Martin Slimline were REALLY awful, The FRAP and Buffalo were a TINY bit better, but generally these all sounded tinny at best, and to get any mid or bass you had to deal with a lot of feedback and "wolf tones". Mini Microphone set ups from Fender, Countryman, Sony, and oddly enough..Radio Shack (which was a good as the others!!) and "press-ons" like the Oyster pick up.

Also in the box are various De Armonds, Bill Lawrences, a Sunrise, Shadow, Seymour Duncan and at least three or four others who's names escape me at the moment (one is called a "Woody", but still sounds electric)

That's probably a quarter of the ones I've bought, tried and discarded...remember the ridiculous "Strado Mike"?

I tried Pick Up the World but unlike a few other folks here, didn't have great results. In it's day the Sunrise was pretty much state of the art for magnetic pickups, but it still sounded like electric (good though)

Currently I use a Fishman Blender....but PRAY for a good system and sympathetic sound person!

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: AKS
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 03:06 AM

Here's on(c)e more: the B-Band electret pickup. I say it's worth a try, at least!

AKS

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge with no cookie
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 04:29 AM

I'm investigating

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,GUEST, Colin
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 12:02 PM

Interesting and informative discussion. The Fishman Matric Natural II is my choice but I think all acoustic pick-ups should be carefully matched to the guitar and the player; Body size, playing style etc. The acoustic centre in Wapping, London are the most helpful people when it comes to this advice (that I've found anyway)

I've heard brilliant things about Ashworth too (friendly people, prompt return of e-mails etc) but Phil Beer reckons that although great sounding they can be unreliable and his breakdown an awful lot. Having said that Show of Hands do tour relentlessly so it's probably more usage than normal.

Cheers

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 12:54 PM

Colin - I believe you hit the nail on the head; acoustic pick-ups should be carefully matched to the guitar. I know the Fishman under saddle matrix pick-up sounds quite a bit better in Larrrivee Jumbo then it does in some other guitars I've tried. I chaulk it up, simply to the luck of the draw, and the way it happens to work with that particular design.

As far as I know the Fishman Matrix II is designed for high volume stage, and reduced feedback. Since I do almost nothing but acoustic style music, the stages I play are generally low volume - so the Fishman I works for me.

I just don't like the idea of the condesnser mic inside the guitar, even in a blender configuration. I know you make it sound great in a room by yourself, playing with the settings - but first of all it is the wrong place from which the guitar should be mic'ed and secondly, you are rarely in a position to know what the "front of house" sound is - so you're reliant on a sound engineer (hopefullY) - and if I were him, I'd want a mic on a stand, aimed at the best place for mic'ing acoustic guitars; normally just below the neck, several inches north of the sound hole. BUT - I do agree that the blender configs offer a good comprimise sound; not too electric, near mic quality. The other problem with the blender config is feedback. You may be defeating the purpose of using a pick-up if you're blending in the mic. I have to say that I haven't used a blender on-stage, though. These placement and feedback problems may have been solved through Fishman's excellent electronic ciruit design.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 01:13 PM

I finally got an "acoustic" pick up that I adore! It is made by Shadow, and it's got a mic and a 'tuned' electric pickup with a balance control between the two. It also is equipped with another jack for piezo, which I've never been able to get to work right in the past, so I haven't gotten around to installing it... The piezo can be balanced as ewll, and all the adjustments are right on the pick-up for all of 'em... I have used plain old electric pick-ups mostly, because they are conststant, and sound "almost" good, all the time. They feedback less than the others, and are simple to opperate. What this Shadow does for me is easy to say. With the mic adjusted to each occasion, I can get as 'acoustic' an amplified sound, as the situation will allow. Just mix in as much mic as will guarentee a feedback free environment. The mic works very well for me, and my guitar has a slightly exagerated low end resonance...

Hey uh, CraigS... could you put me in touch with the pick-up builder you spoke on above? I am trying to get a simple, but very long pick-up (or three), and I'm having about zero luck...

Cheers, ttr

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 06:22 PM

I am digging on the B-Band and may have more info from the uK distributor in due course.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: DonMeixner
Date: 29 Nov 02 - 07:23 PM

I am generally pleased with the sound I get from a Pick Up The World #20 on my banjo. I it is a great improvement over my Barcus Barry stuff.

I am exceptionally pleased with PUTW's customer service. I found them to be beyond the top when it comes to servicing their product users. Thank yous to Mudcatter Bluejay at PUTW for this.

Don

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 01 Dec 02 - 06:42 PM

Well I still have nothing fromUTW or B-Band UK distributor.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: BlueSage
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 02:10 AM

Let's see..... I've tried pickups by Barcus Berry, Fishman, Martin, Baggs, Pickup the World, and many others.

I've tried preamps by Baggs, Fishman, Martin, and others.

I've tried mic/preamp "blender" systems by Fishman and Rane.

I've spent thousands of dollors (really) on amplifing my instruments.

I've yet to find anything (other than an external mic) that makes either my Martin or Taylor guitars sound close to what they sound like acoustically.

Even the "acceptable" pickup systems only make outstanding guitars sound like they came straight out of your local Walmart.

If you need to move on stage, or need to be very loud, use a pickup system but don't try to convince me that the sound is "great", my ears tell me otherwise.

Mike

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: Ralphie
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 02:54 AM

Agree with most of the comments above.
Pickups for live work will always be a bit of a compromise.
It also helps to look at the pre-amp you choose.
With my Fishman Rare Earth blends, I use a "Raven Master Blender" which splits the mic and the transducer into 2 seperate chains complete with individual gain and eq. Thus, allowing you plenty of scope to set it up to suit your style/instrument.
Lots of other toys like tuner feeds, FX sends, phase reverse, etc, etc.

Available out of California, (Sorry, don't have a web address).
I found mine in Denmark St, London.
More info and a tech spec on Martin Simpsons website.
(You'll need a Stereo patch cord though!!)
Regards Ralphie

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: Bert
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 03:06 AM

There's only one place to by a guitar pickup - From our own Blue Jay.
Support your fellow Mudcatters.

Send him a PM.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,BlueJay
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 04:22 AM

I still can't figure out how to re-up since changing my internet server. Richard Bridge, I apologize for PUTW's not getting back to you. Normally, this would not happen, but the main folks at PUTW, (David and Annie), have been out of town, and it's been difficult to keep up with all the phone calls, e-mails etc. You caught us at a weak time. Everybody has to have a little time off. And when they got back, their efforts seemed to go largely to a surprise birthday party, for me.



Richard, I'll light a fire under their ass tomorrow, you will have your questions answered in short order. Thanks, BlueJay

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 09:59 AM

Of course the mic of choice if you want to use a mic is another kettle of fish, and so is the choice of amp for bugs (or mics).

For bugs, I have found the smoothest sound is obtained by using an OLD valve PA head - I use a selmer 100/6 with 4 el34 output stage, and even use the internal valve reverb a litte to warm up really hard cases, but I expect any other would do. I attribute the difference to high input impedance and not too rapid a transient response. Of course it's heavy and fragile.

For choice of mic, I find the AKG D 880 preferable to the 770 and like both. Ordinarily an AKG C1000s is very clean but I have a friend who has a very extraordinary old Martin, and to capture the subtlety of that (like it or not, it's what the instrument sounds like) the only thing to use is an SM58, although normally I would not use them for instrument at all.

AMps for mics I have not found much difference.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: JedMarum
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 10:23 AM

Like DonMeixner I am also using the PUTW product for my banjo. I use the model #27 (because that is what I had available) and it works very well for my open backed, long necked Vega. I was worried that I wouldn't get the bass response I was looking for, so I worked at selecting the optimum placement for a string bass. I placed the strip over the area directly beneath the bridge feet, and because the model #27 is long, I placed more of the strip beneath the bass string foot then the high string foot (the strip overlaps both, though). The result is excellent. In fact, I have a strong enough signal to use the pick up without a pre-amp (especially since most mixers have plenty of gain at the input) - but it works well with a pre-amp. I do use a bit of EQ to reduce some of the bass - but with long banjo, when I play down in E or F, the sound man is usually readjustig EQ anyway (the freq response is quite different when you play that low - going higher is not so much of an adjustment). At any rate, these adjustments are very minor, and are certainly related to the instrument's idiosynchracies as oppposed to the pick-up's.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 02 Dec 02 - 11:59 AM

I recently saw Pierre Bensusan, and as he was opening my head up to incredible musical frontiers (he's definately a guitar god...) I found myself wondering how he got SUCH a great sound! Aside from the obvious exquisite guitar... a Lowden... it seems he was using a high powered directional mic with a little EQ and digital enhancement. I found his sound to be amoung the best I've heard... Of course it does help, a little... that he is perhaps the best guitarist in the world... ttr

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Guest: John Deegan
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:15 AM

I have a very old Lowden S5 which originally came with an Ashworth transducer and was absolutely awful. I've been through a Martin Thinline (bearable), various mics including a PZM and finally settled for an English manufactured Hedways which is the most acceptable to my ear so far.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 03 Dec 02 - 09:31 AM

I use a cheapo BELCAT GT-2000 tranducer in my guitar. It's a double pick-up model and I have located one under each end of the bridge. It sounds fine and produces about the same gain as a normal dynamic mic, so I don't need any pre-amp. I bought it from Hobgoblin for £11.95, which included the end-pin jack socket.

Subject: RE: Guitar Pickups (helpful manufacturers)
From: GUEST,Richard Bridge (cookie and format C)
Date: 21 Dec 02 - 07:00 PM

Gues what?

Still nothing from PUTW.

I guess they think I might be more trouble than I am worth...