Violence is the American Way?

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 11:25 AM

I' a 72 year old American.

I have never, since about fifth grade, seen a person strike another in a private (as opposed to sporting) context. I have never seen a person brandish a weapon against another, and neither I nor any of my friends or relatives have been either the victims or the perpetrators of violence.

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 11:09 AM

Damn tab key....

...From a broader point of view it is obvious that an individual -- any individual -- can fall into a band of insanity where violence is the dominant emotional state. It is a desperate condition wherein one perceives oneself to be at great risk and out of options. This is not usually a true perception, except in cases of war or street-fights or confronting savage beasts, but it is perfectly real in the seeming. It's more sane than complete apathy but less sane than communicating and organizing, by a long shot.

But this is a human mechanism and is just as likely to show up in the back alleys of Kyoto or Mogadishu as it is in the back alleys of Fort Worth. Alcohol tends to magnify it, which is why bars are often the site of violence. It has little to do with American culture.

An equally valid and statistically sound argument could be made for the case that Americans are mother-worshipers.

A

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 11:08 AM

I don't think that American has a monopoly on violence, not by a long shot...

I think of it more as the Human Way... We're a violent little cruddy species... But then again, it's a violent little cruddy world... The natural order is that you kill something (Or a LOT of somethings) every day so that you can keep living...

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 11:04 AM

Misoph:

Why would you take the measure of this country from three border-town gin-mills?

From a broader point of view it is obvious that an individual -- any individual -- can fall into a band of insanity where violence is the dominant emotional state. It is a desperate condition wherein one perceives oneself to be at great risk and out of options. Thisis not usually a true perception, except in cases of war or

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: MMario
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 10:54 AM

obviously the Spanish/Mexican influence.

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 10:51 AM

As understand it, the lady is saying that the US has a culture of violence; one in which violent solutions are often preferred over peaceful ones. I believe it to be true. When I was a boy in Ft Worth, Texas; 40 odd years ago, there were 3 "gin mills" down the street from us. They averaged 2 or 3 stabbings a week, about 1 shooting per fortnight, and 2 or 3 deaths per year. That was 'normal'. No one made any fuss to close them down. Yes, I think the US is violent.

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 10:50 AM

Can someone get this transferred to the BS section?

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 10:48 AM

From a Canadian's point of view.

I've done a great deal of traveling over my life and I can easily say that the thousands of Americans I have MET are probably the LEAST potentially violent of the lot.

I do a great deal of joking on the cat, but I'm serious about this.

Cheers

Rick (don't shoot me, Spaw)

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: Amos
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 10:31 AM

Yeah, Spaw -- lean on 'er a little...


Daylia:

There have been many collisions in the history of this country and they have often gotten violent. The collisions between the Irish gangs of New York and the Italians; the collisions between the Puerto Ricans and the Afro-Americans; the collisions between segregationists and integrationsits; the collisions between the labor unions and the owners of industry; the collisions between statists and Federalists. We were born out of a collision of deeply-held interest and belief. We have a tradition of being willing to fight. Quite so.

But that does not mean that every American is a violent person. Nor does it mean that we seek violence out. No-one in my immediate family has ever been involved in any violent activity, aside from a couple of minor schoolyard scraps. I know a few people who were violent as soldiers in various wars, whose tales could make your scalp crawl, but they were engaged in war against people who were equally if not more so.

When I look at the history of genocide in Africa and Yugoslavia, the insanity of war in Korea and Vietnam totally aside from the American part, the role of gratuitous violence in Germany's history, the statistics of Stalinism, and the sweeping chaos engendered by Pol Pot in Cambodia, I have to say I believe that your article is pointing to the wrong side of the equation. It is just possible that violence is a deeply rooted human aberration, and not an American trait in particular.

A

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 10:18 AM

:)   Thanks Spaw! Oh, put me out of my misery - quick!!

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: catspaw49
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 10:15 AM

We are NOT a violent country! You oughta' be shot for posting something like that!!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Violence is the American Way?
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 10:15 AM

Oops, forgot the non-music tag (again) ... sorry, folks.

daylia

Subject: Violence is the American Way?
From: *daylia*
Date: 21 Apr 03 - 10:13 AM

For those of us who've lived and studied outside the US, the decidely American propensity towards war and violent crime is "common knowledge", verified by not only history and crime statistics but also the content of American TV, movies and music.

However, when I've mentioned this on Mudcat I've been puzzled at the response from American Catters (and GUESTS) - often, they either deny it outright or display large gaps of knowledge concerning their own 'national character', at least as it's seen by other nations.

I wondered why this was so ... have non-American historians and sociologists doctored statistics and taught lies about the US then? ... until I found this article yesterday - Violence is the American Way.

It claims, among other things that "The reality untaught in American schools and textbooks is that war – whether on a large or small scale – and domestic violence have been pervasive in American life and culture from this country's earliest days almost 400 years ago. Violence, in varying forms, according to the leading historian of the subject, Richard Maxwell Brown, "has accompanied virtually every stage and aspect of our national experience," and is "part of our unacknowledged (underground) value structure." Indeed, "repeated episodes of violence going far back into our colonial past, have imprinted upon our citizens a propensity to violence."

Thus, America demonstrated a national predilection for war and domestic violence long before the 9/11 attacks, but its leaders and intellectuals through most of the last century cultivated the national self-image, a myth, of America as a moral, "peace-loving" nation which the American population seems unquestioningly to have embraced."

The article contains some very interesting statistics and analysis. Please note - I'm not posting it here to point the finger at anyone, but to hopefully generate some peaceful - and eye-opening - discussion about the claims it makes.

Thanks all - daylia (hoping to deepen my understanding of my neighbours).