Otway's New Band!!!

Subject: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 02 May 03 - 08:59 AM

Well, after former band mates have posted on their web page that they have broken free of the bandage to Lorcan Otway's band Sorcha Dorcha, so that they can return to playing "Kelly the boy from Killan" in Green Beer joints, or other members have asked if we can play dance music and "not your songs" and a varriety of other steller comments... well, I have found the perfect band for Sorcha Dorcha fans. I am cloning myself. I have put a down payment on a wee box that can overlap tracks live as I play them. Inspired by the solo CD, with a little help from my friends (yuck yuck yuck)I have been working on settings that build on previous phrases, so I can add tracks as I do songs and such.
Now, this does not mean that I am completely adverse to working with other musicians, however, as we enter days when American rights have been flushed down the toilet, if playing with others means not singing about the issues on which our nation will sink or swim, well, I will keep cloning. So, the new Sorcha Dorcha, is Larry Otway on Bodhran, Lorcan Otway on Vocals, Lor Otway on Whistle, L. Otway on Flute, Lollya Otway on Uilleann Pipes, Logi Otway on guitar, Larry "Floatin' Boatin'" Otway on backing vocals - recorder - bongos - hurdy gurdy - syntisizer and pass the hat crowd pleaser...
Cheers
Lor

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 02 May 03 - 09:00 AM

that should read free of the bondage, not bandage, sheesh.

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 02 May 03 - 09:32 AM

...and Logan Outthatway doing the publicity??

Best of Luck, Larry- but how are you going to have the onstage band fights, hit yourself over the head with a tambourine??
!!

RtS
"the only Singer in our house is the sewing machine"

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: You Can Call Me Al
Date: 02 May 03 - 10:28 AM

Lor,

With all due respect, live folk music is about people making music. It is not about someone playing along to their pre-recorded tracks.

Personally, I don't even like to hear such overdubbing on a cd. The best cd's are the ones that capture real musicians playing together.

Now I don't know you, so I'm only conjecturing, but if you have such trouble getting along with other musicians, maybe you should consider that you might be part of the problem.

Got to go now, my band has a practice at noon.

Al

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 02 May 03 - 11:47 AM

Dear you can call me Al... you can call me, but I will likely be out busking.
Roger ol' skin... ain't Al the rigs of the times mate? Ah well, bet he's a yank - knows everything for everyone else. Good idea about the on stage fights, did I tell ya that there were a few, one member playing with her back to the audience away from the mike... because she was having a row with two other members and f* the audience or the music. Well, there you go, But, I agree there is not half the fun without the fights, so I will have to contradict myself and get into a schizo argument over the music.
What is real folk music Al? Damn me but it hasn't been the same since the ouwl music nights around the cave wi the neanderthaul sing alongs. Now, what was nice about Neander music is the lack of pedantic definitions by self apointed athoritites, Neanders were a laid back bunch of tune full beggers and I, for one miss em.
Cheers
Lorcan Ri

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 02 May 03 - 12:22 PM

OK Al: Your right, ya don't know, so here are as many of the stories as I can remember. First Sorcha Dorcha, we were booked into a gig in another country, I think the Bahamas if I recall, and on the eve of the flight, I left the band because the band mates were constantly stoned, and as I didn't know what the constructive possession laws were in that country, and we were sharing rooms, I didn't want to put my wife and I in the position of being arrested for drug possession, as we don't do that sort of thing. Now, one of the three band members who went down is now in jail for sexually abusing children, my fault? Then, the next incarnation. Mandolin player, flute player A, singer B, fiddler C. Singer B has an alcoholic boy friend who beats her, and she always shows up late for gigs, tripping onto stage over my Uilleann pipe drones, I have to loan her money to get to gigs, and though she asks for help leaving her abusive boy friend, she does nothing, and finally quits when I mention that she should learn the words to the songs, as she misses rehearsals constantly. We take on singer D. She objects to the song Yvette's Song that I wrote about the forced assimilation of Canadian natives. It is a true story from work I did with hunter gatherer Indians. She tells me she does not feel she should sing about other people's liberation struggles. Fine, I tell her sleep on it, think it over, if we don't tell the story who will, as our electric in New York costs them their land. The next day, she objects to a song I wrote about the murder of a Gypsy mother in the Czech Republic, where the skin heads who murdered her got six months for disorderly conduct. She says she needs to know the other side of the story. Member A says, "what other side, the bitch had it coming?" She leaves taking fiddler C, in comes singer E and fiddler F. Fiddler F has anger management problems and singer E and member A keep telling me they are afraid of him after he blows up several times during rehearsals. He leaves the band, and frankly I missed him. Along about that time, I go to England to stay with a friend who is dy\ieing, leaving new demos with member A to get gigs when I return. My friend dies, I return to find he has not only left to go into a band that does not do civil rights songs, he has convinced singer F to leave, though not to go into the band he has gone into. I am speaking to another fiddler Uilleann piper member G, and couple H and I overhear us and say, "we love your band, can we play also." We take on singer J. By this time, from audience reaction, I am doing a lot of the vocals. Before this, I had pushed other singers and basically thought of myself as a piper and whistle player, but I was getting good reviews. Singer J had time problems, so we took on alternate singer K. The two together did lead on some songs and harmonies behind us. Singer J often forgot the words and objected to doing more than one take on recording sessions and didn't rehearse. She left. Singer K asked to be paid for a benefit that most of the band was doing for free. I paid her cash out of my own pocket from my busking proceeds. Two months latter she tells me that I never paid her and she wants another two hundred bucks. I pay her again and she leaves. (my fault of course). Then, Sept. 11, one of the couple member H is really shaken, was close saw a lot, and just stopped taking part in the band as did his wife. They then announce on their web site that they are free of the bondage of my band. I mistreated them all the time you see, in that often they got paid, when all I got was the expenses of the gig, and no cash, did all the heavy lifting, and they waltzed in to perform. by the way second Uilleann piper (it was great harmonies between the two of us) had already left the band as he was part of the famous fight where member I played with her back to the audience, so I let him go to please H and I. So, I take on guitar player member L and fiddler M. We do a gig in North Carolina, and doing my songs, get a huge reception and offers of other gigs. We get back to New York, I put out several hundred bucks in new promotional materials as M asked us to take on her boy friends member N. Two days later she calls to say she does not want to further commit to the band, and as the band is now defunct, (so she says) without her, can I give her the contact info so she can do the gigs we were offered in Appalachia right. So I get another fiddler. member O. He tells me he does not want to commit enough for me to take bookings, he is only with the band to learn Irish tunes, at which time member L tells me that, though I have incorporated her singing and her songs, which are rather nice, introspective songs about being a woman folk singer, she does not want to do my songs. Yup, join my band, do her songs but not mine. Well, there we are, I may have left one or two folks out in the story and I admit, it is my telling, but see Rashamon, we only have our own limited perspective.
I am to blame? Maybe. I can see why, when I played for six months with a broken rib, right under the Uilleann Pipe bellows, and my band members offered no help to take the PA system down five flights of stairs and back up after the gig, no help setting up, no help pushing the PA through the snow, expected to be paid and were before and generally instead of me, why working for an old bastard like me would be slavery.
Cheers Al. hope your band treat you as well.
Larry

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 May 03 - 05:40 PM

Have you written a song about it yet?

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: You Can Call Me Al
Date: 02 May 03 - 05:41 PM

Woh! I must confess that I've never heard of one musician having so many problems with band members and that all the problems turn out to the other peoples' fault. And then to cap it all, the other band members quit and announce that they're "free" of the one guy who wasn't at fault. Talk about ingrates.

As for my band, after 17 years, we all get along just fine. Of course, we're all friends and play for the fun of it. We get together on Friday afternoons for a practice(we're all professors with no Friday classes)and play the first Monday night of the month as a local bar. The amount we get paid almost covers dinners and the bar tab for the five of us and our wives.

Al

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 02 May 03 - 06:40 PM

Al, dear friend. Your statement above about playing after work... That says a lot. You see, when folks are making a living at music, it gets more complicated. No mater how gentle the management of a band, folks are used to looking at the "boss" as a despot. In fact, in my band, who ever came into the band brought their music, their identity and were welcome to be part of the process. However, most where looking to put bread on the table, which is fine, that is why I busk, but, the fact is that that is only part of the process for me. For me folk music is the voice of the people, that voice not heard in the press. So, folks where drawn to my band because of the excellence of the music, but wanted to make it an engine for money at the expence of the reason I write music.
I think folks who play folk music causualy are great. Good part of keeping things going, however, folks like Danny Hannon, like Cahal McConnell's two brothers, folks like so many in the north of Ireland who write music for their lives, that is what keeps folk music from being an anacronistic musium peace destined to be as important as the works of Richard Smirt, nice music but not very powerful in social change. Believe me, those of us who play for the lives of our class rather than after class are less concerned with what instruments ARE folk and which are not. I happen to play the Uilleann pipes rather well, and that takes a dedication to old traditions, but no tradition is static. Cultures grow and change and that is still tradition as long as the roots are preserved.
As to teaching three days, with summers, I suppose, nice work if you can get it. Drop me a PM with a snail mail address and I will send ya a couple of CDs. By the way, what do you teach?
Cheers
Larry

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 May 03 - 08:18 PM

The difficulty seems to be that political songs (that's a shorthand expression I'm using there) need a politicised playing and listening community, and one that is attuned to the musical genre in which it's made. People who understand the music, and who understand why the issues matter.

My impression is that this hasn't been there in New York, and the uphill struggle to find it or to build it explains the problems, Larry has been facing. The hope being that people who like the music will be able to open their minds to the words.

Perhaps, with all the stuff going down in the world today, some of the people who already might be open to the words could learn to open their heads to the music as well. For, it's true enough, Larry does "happen to play the Uilleann pipes rather well".

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 02 May 03 - 08:30 PM

Funny enough McGrath:
The problem is not the audiences. Frankly, I have not had a single case of the audience feeling cheeted by a performance. The problem is that either the rest of the band feels the audience is responding to their fiddling, rather than the words of the song and try to strike out on their own, asking me for the bookings, or that they are doing this good, they'd do even better without having meaningful words behind what they are doing. In reality, none of them are getting much air play, while my work is on the radio almost every day in New York. The other draw back is the promoters. For example the agent who heard me play the pipes and asked if I had a band. When I said yes, she asked if it was Celtic rock, I said no, and she would not even listen to us, saying that only Celtic rock was bookable in New York. So, it is not the audiences as much as other impeadiments (and not that I am some ogre... most likely ;-) . Cheers Larry

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 May 03 - 09:30 PM

Eileen Og's transatlantic cousin, Larry Ogre...

Larry Ogre, that's the monster's name is,
In the Irish Bars of New York he is famous,
When he sings, God knows, they're bound to blame us,
Won't he get us jailed for evermore?
Play your pipe and learn to hold your peace,
That's the way the wheel can best be greased,
Singing in the belly of the beast,
Are you trying to get us jailed for evermore?
Larry Ogre, there's money to be made,
Larry Ogre, you're ruining the trade,
Singing words to make us feel afraid,
Are you trying to get us jailed for evermore?

Where's the band with the music that delighted
And the people all got so excited
When you sang that latest song you writed?
It seems that they have broken up once more.
You'd best take care, or you find you'll be rejected
In the real world some things are best neglected,
There's toes you tread on that need to be respected,
That's why your band has broken up once more.
Larry Ogre, there's money to be made,
Larry Ogee, you're ruining the trade,
Singing words to make us feel afraid,
Are you trying to get us jailed for evermore?

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 03 May 03 - 08:56 AM

Ah Kev, Shem:
Gorra mile maith agut, I expect to hear that when I get to Harlow some day.
Cheers
Larry

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST,Rod McD.
Date: 03 May 03 - 10:34 AM

The difficulty seems to be that political songs (that's a shorthand expression I'm using there) need a politicised playing and listening community, and one that is attuned to the musical genre in which it's made. People who understand the music, and who understand why the issues matter.

My impression is that this hasn't been there in New York, and the uphill struggle to find it or to build it explains the problems, Larry has been facing. The hope being that people who like the music will be able to open their minds to the words.

Clearly, McGrath, your impression is based on Larry's constant complaint that he's this great guy and that everyone is out to get him. Usually, when someone is constantly right and everyone else is constantly wrong, rational people see the paranoid flag.

New York City has been at the center of political folk song since at least the 1930's. Prior to WWII, Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Sis Cunningham, Mill Lampell, Josh White, Leadbelly, etc. were all writing and singing political songs. The Almanac Singers with Pete, Woody, etc. were formed in the late-1930's.

After the War, NYC was home to the People's Songs movement. By 1950, the People's Song Bulletin was reborn as Sing Out Magazine.

In the 1960's, Broadside Magazine, published in New York City, became the organ for new political folk songs. It's not coincidental that many of the most significant political songwriters of that era, like Bob Dylan, Phil Ochs, Tom Paxton, etc. migrated to NYC.

In recent years that has continued. There are many political songwriters today in NYC. Jack Hardy's Monday night songwriters' get-togethers have thrived for more than 20 years and given rise to countless political songs.

Maybe Larry Otway just can't get along with other people.

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST,Rod McD.
Date: 03 May 03 - 10:36 AM

One more thing, Larry says that he has to busk for a living. I always thought that Larry was supposed to be some kind of a brilliant paralegal. If he's so great, why aren't his professional services in demand?

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 03 May 03 - 10:42 AM

Wow! An amazing tale. Since you decided to make your struggles (as well as your triumphs and music) public, Larry, I don't have any hesitation in answering or throwing out opinions in theis forum. Normally people keep things like this behind closed doors....but I believe in Quentin's Crisp's "Less hassles by going public" theory...and whether or not you knew or read Quentin, you adhere to many of his best bits of advice.

It really IS the politics of course! "You can call me Al" talks about keeping a band together for many years, but I doubt very much (I MAY be wrong!) if Al's band has a leader who's views are as far from the mainstream as yours.

You really WANT to believe the very best in people....you want them to actually care (and ACT) for Aboriginals, for immigrants, for casualties of war, for activist DEFENCE ATTORNEYS(!!).....but my guess is that most people got into Irish music cuz' it was fun and it moved them.....most politics had to do with Irish situations...period. I've no doubt that you're getting yer ass kicked on their web-site, but think about this......after almost four years of us being on Mudcat together, I know almost NOTHING about you, other than your involvement in civil issues and your political writing.

I could put together a pretty full profile of at least 50 Mudcatters who've been around for awhile....simply by having paid attention to what they've said, and what music means to them. I'm not sure about your good self though....it kinda starts and ends with Activist/piper/singer....period. If that's the case is it possible that some of your musicians may simply find you Too Intense?

Just a guess. Good luck on the cloning.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 03 - 11:08 AM

The suggestion that the NY Irish American community is too conservative for Larry's politics is just plain silly. There are plenty of Irish American musicians and music fans involved in radical left politics in NY. The fact that Larry hasn't been able to penetrate this community may say something about the clannishness of the community, certainly. But the politics? No way. There are plenty of radical left, left over left, lukewarm left, and liberals in the NY Irish American music community. Think Sinead O'Connor, Black 47, and Luka Bloom. All of those very progressive musicians have been welcomed at the center of the NY Irish American music scene, as have their politics.

Politics isn't the problem. Maybe clannishness is (but I'm only saying maybe, as I don't know any of the people involved in Larry's drama), and as Rick suggests, Larry's personality (ie too intense) is much more likely the reason.

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 03 - 12:15 PM

Here's the website of Larry's former bandmates.

http://www.angelfire.com/music3/lovelandbell/music.html

I don't see it as any kind of an attack on him.

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 03 - 12:22 PM

Here is a clickable link to the site the above guest posted:

http://www.angelfire.com/music3/lovelandbell/music.html

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 03 May 03 - 06:20 PM

You know guest, out of respect to the Bells, I did not use there name, feel free to ask if the quote is acurate to the web page before the update. All the fellows you mention, as to the cutting edge of political writing, well they aren't great comparisons. I know, respect and love Larry Kerwin, but we are doing very different things. Larry plays Celtic rock, and is much more concervative about US politics then I, from what I have seen of his music.
As to being a "Brilliant paralegal", I don't know where you got that "quote". I am a political scientist with a juris doctorate from the third ranked law school in the States. If that makes me brilliant, well I didn't say that. Point of fact, I work, almost exclusivly for those who others will not touch as they have no money of their own, and no one to fund their rights causes. That probably means I am a bastard as well.
Look, guys, having a tooth ache and no dental insurenence makes me a bit short tempered these days, but the busking is doing well this season, so after I finish paying for the equiptment, I am going to get a filling and I will be able to laugh at the high jinks of our guest.
Rick, Quentin was a pal of me old dad, he used to come to the theater all the time, and he gave dad a thoughtful gift once, I have to ask mum what it was, I think it may have been a copy of his book inscribed or something. But, right you are. I perfer not to embarass former band mates, and left out things about the wee fight on stage, but the guest, in his zeal to promote his theory that I am a paronoid bastard named them. Some people, eh?
Cheers gang
ow
Larry

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 03 - 06:32 PM

Perhaps the Bells were pissed off at the way you've been describing them. They seem like nice folks and are even complementary about your skill in designing flyers.

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST,Madelyne
Date: 03 May 03 - 06:36 PM

I auditioned for Larry's band, but he didn't think I was too good.

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 03 May 03 - 06:44 PM

Frankly, I wasn't describing "The Bells" untill some genius guest "outed" them. Franly, I am very fond of them, and would not have mentioned them by name. As to Madelyne, I sorry, but I don't recall. What did you play? It also may have been at a time when we had lots of members, at times there were as many as eight in the pool. I know that I have never, ever told anyone who auditioned for the band that they were not good enough. Frankly the only person who (not mentioned above...) was basicly told of a short coming was a guitarist who didn't practicce, and from rehersal to rehersal would forget the arangements. I mentioned to him that he should practice at home, and he expressed surprise. I told him that he should get back in touch with us when he had enough time to commit to practice. Now, for any who think this is another fellow, who didn't remember changes, who had health challenges, it is not the same bloke, that Bloke, said he was not in good enough health to practice between rehersals, and I fully understood, and he parted the band on good terms. Feel free to add letters to their names as more on the saga of band members... but don't go outing members, that frankly is in much worse taste than saying things about me to my face here, so to speak.
Cheers
Larry

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 03 - 06:49 PM

That thread doesn't look particularly unfriendly - but I noticed that, when you click on the link it gives for "SORCHA DORCHA- Ballad and Ceile Band" , it takes you to that porn site there was a link to earlier in this thread. Which could just be the kind of daft thing that happens to links, rather than necessarily intentional and malicious. Or maybe not.

Could it be that the link between political songs and Irish songs and music is easier made back in Ireland? And a singer who's respected in Ireland is going to have more acceptance in New York, along with their politics. Less threatening perhaps than a local singer geared to local (American) issues. Whereas the domestic protest and radical song tradition seems to have been with American type music rather than Irish.

Which doesn't rule out that people get can uncomfortable sometimes round people who are a bit emphatic ("intense") about meaning what they sing or say.

As Yeats wrote:

"I have passed with a nod of the head
Or polite meaningless words,
Or have lingered awhile and said
Polite meaningless words,
And thought before I had done
Of a mocking tale or a gibe
To please a companion
Around the fire at the club,
Being certain that they and I
But lived where motley is worn...

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 03 - 06:56 PM

"That thread doesn't look particularly unfriendly - I meant, of course, "that site", referring to "http://www.angelfire.com/music3/lovelandbell/music.html"

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 03 May 03 - 07:10 PM

Hi Kev: As I said above, the comment was on that site several months ago. As the the link, I believe, as I let our bands web page expire, some porn site bought the name. I presumed it had to do with a link from the guest and I was wrong, as you in presumption that it MAY have something to do with the Bells. I am sure it is some creep buying up expired names. Let's hope Barney the Dinosaur's site does not go this way.
You know a lot of good folks have left Mud cat, and this is a perfect expresion why. A generation raised on political attack adds, takes a notice about dealing with the use of overlapping tracks by a working musician to deal with personel problems, and they take that as an ivitation to personal attacks. Well, I am near to saying I am joining the sick and tired of that kind of thing. Go bomb a third world country assholes.
Cheers
Larry

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 03 - 07:21 PM

I'm familiar enough with the NY Irish music scene, from purist trad, to punk, to polka. The problem isn't with the politics of the NY Irish music community. Yes, the punk and rock scene is more progressive of the trad scene, but that doesn't mean that there are no politically progressive Irish scensters by a long shot, since many of the musicians and punters alike enjoy more than the trad genre. The younger the musicians and punters, the more likely they are to be politically progressive regarding issues deemed more important to the world by His High Holiness Otway.   Who in my experience here on Mudcat, is a nutcase.

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 May 03 - 07:28 PM

And who might that be?

I mean, without having a clue who is giving an opinion, or what any of their views are on anything else, how is it possible to know whether that opinion is of any value? (Scensters???)

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 03 May 03 - 09:51 PM

Lets cut through the shite.
I use my own name on this forum. Anyone can see my record, as it is rather public from my Mayoral citation from Mayor Koch for my fight for racial desegrigation in Boston, to my advocacy for marginalized cultural isolates. Anyone can listen to my music on Rick Fielding's show, Bernard White or Robert Knights broadcasts on WBAI, BBC Scotland, and a few other venues or hear me live at the Theatre for the New City at the end of the month. As to being a nut case, as an LD student at NYU, I had to undergo a battery of tests, so my mental health is a attested to on paper for anyone who is interersted.
On the other hand, on this forum, several annonomous trolls, among them Yarrow, post ad homminum attacks without using their names. So, their record and mental health is only persumable from their need to attack others.
If I have something to say to someone I use their name and mine. If I have something that may be embarassing to another, who are generally OK fellows, I leave out their names. Trolls make this a place where serrious descussion about carreers in folk music are imposible, and I among others, think folks should post under their own poor names.
CHeers
Larry

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST,googlemeister
Date: 04 May 03 - 10:47 AM

Larry, Larry, Larry,

When YOU started this thread by referring to how YOU were done such wrong on your former bandmates' website, it was inevitable that we'd go to Google, put your name in the seach box, and find the site it question.

So we did, and it turns out that they've said absolutely nothing on their site that can be construed as anti-Larry.

YOU, on the other hand, have done much to disparage THEM here in the Mudcat Forum.

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 04 May 03 - 11:02 AM

Amen, Googlemeister. And this forum has not been spared the gritty, distasteful, overblown narratives of Otway's Sorcha Dorcha dramas over time either. He has continually ripped on his former bandmates publicly, in very distasteful ways. Over and over and over. Band bad, Otway a saint. Band bad, Otway a saint.

But let the record of Mayor Ed Koch (of NY) on Otway's great social works (in Boston) stand, eh? For the Great and Venerable Otway is kind to disenfranchised peoples everywhere, and possibly, small furry animals as well.

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 May 03 - 11:23 AM

JEEZ LOUISE Larry!

I can really appreciate that you use your own name here, rather than being anonymous, but you do one heck of a lot of advertising, and like a local (Toronto) PR person, perhaps you stir up some shit first to get attention. That doesn't bother me in the least. I've always been so 'anti-publicity' that the record companies I've been with over the years have probably dispaired of my seeming lack of interest.

....so plug the CDs, plug Sorcha Dorcha, plug Larry, but for Heaven's sake, don't complain when you get your ass nailed to the wall, after starting a thread such as this.

Yes, I strongly believe in some of your songs. I think they've hit the nail squarely, and using a "Celtic format" to deliver that message is unusual. I'll continue to play those pieces of music on the air because I think they're important. The ones that I DON'T think are well-written....I simply don't play.

But you hand out some very sizable 'lumps' so I think at times you have to able take them yourself, rather than act petulant.

Cheers

Rick

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST,Rod M.
Date: 05 May 03 - 12:34 AM

my Mayoral citation from Mayor Koch for my fight for racial desegrigation in Boston

Just curious, why would Koch have been giving out citations for something that happened in another mayor's city?

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: mooman
Date: 05 May 03 - 06:09 AM

Dear Larry,

I read the Sorcha Dorcha history with interest and it reminds me so much of many experiences I have had in bands over many years. I feel absolutely privileged now to play in two bands (I quit a third recently because of S.D.-type experiences) that have absolutely no musical or personality problems at all after 25-odd years of giving my own money away, providing and operating a lot of the equipment including mixing, suffering under overbearing egotists, being blamed for everything that went wrong and carrying, setting up and breaking down heavy equipment while others sit watching as if they were somehow not part of the band during those proceedings.

Anybody who knows me will confirm that I am not a particularly difficult person.

Not all of it is bad. I did a fill in slot in another band last year for a missing musician and was delighted to get a handy wad of notes some nine months later when I next saw the band leader (as I had completely forgotten about it and considered it doing some friends in need a favour!)

Keep up the good work brother, band or multitracked...I don't mind!

Peace

moo (Richard)

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST,Bronx Bombarde
Date: 06 May 03 - 05:32 PM

Larry, you said:

"Trolls make this a place where serrious descussion about carreers in folk music are imposible, and I among
others, think folks should post under their own poor names".

I think that is so unfair. There have been a great many serious and informative discussions on Mudcat about any kind of musical career you could name. After implying that former Sorcha Dorcha members have no integrity, and only want to play at the "Green Beer" level, no wonder you've gotten a reaction.

If your suggestion is that everyone should use their 'real name' on a forum such as this when replying to Larry Otway's criticism, then all discussions are going to be pretty short ones.

In the past (other Mudcat threads) you've taken the high road and debated issues until you've been called on certain questionable 'facts' that you've thrown out. At that point you seem to abandon debate and start questioning the motives of the people who disagree with you. That may be effective, but it makes for a sad end to a thread like this.

I've read your former band-mates comments and they're hardly critical. I'll bet they got a shock when they saw this however.

BB

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: InOBU
Date: 07 May 03 - 12:52 PM

Questionalble facts? Name one. But, let's first have a name. Frankly, not being infallable, when I have passed on information which proved to be incorect when sent to me, I have owned up to it. As to the numerous "Guests" who are likely a single troll, my new policy is that I have nothing to say to any coward who attacks me without using a name. Anyone out there notice that not a single person who says I am difficult to get on with, or acuses me of untruths, uses their names? That should tell you more than alot, it should tell you everything.
Fact is I wrote to the Bells, they owned up to the misunderstanding in the term being abducted by my band, I appologised for them being outed in this post.
Here is what I don't need to appologise for. There are three things I need from a musician. 1. Care for the purpose of the music, people's basic rights and dignity and the preservation of rights we are loosing in the nation and the world. 2. Practice enough for the music to honnor the people we sing about. 3. Show up.
That's it. Having not found that, the point of the thread is technology makes it possible to carry on.
Rick, ya know I have nothing but respect for you. But, as to the publisity, fact is one has to push to be heard, especially in a nation with open censorship of the things I am saying. I think the quality of YOUR music...well, you SHOULD find someone to rattle publiicty cages for you.
One last note ... why did Koch give me a citation for something that happened in Boston? I was building and racing Irish currachs in Boston. Our crew was made up of New Yorkers of every ethnic background as well as a lot of Irish and Irish Americans. We raced in seven cities in the US and Ireland. One day the Boston team captain said to me you can bring your black boats to Boston but leave you N***rs in New York. I tried to have the national league deal with it, and was told I should keep quiet for the good of the sport and the Irish American community. I didn't at a great personal cost. As we were a New York club, we were honnored by Koch and Cardinal O'Connor among others. So, my comment to the annonimous detractors stands, who the hell are you and what the hell did you ever do for anyone else?
All the best,
Larry

Subject: RE: Otway's New Band!!!
From: GUEST
Date: 07 May 03 - 01:27 PM

my fight for racial desegrigation in Boston

Thanks for clearing that up. I've always wondered who it was that desegregated Boston.