BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?

Subject: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 12 May 03 - 12:42 PM

I work for an organization that provides training for degreed, licensed, State certified professionals. A while back, I pushed to get a co-worker/friend promoted to a supervisory position--we started working together and it became clear that she didn't know a lot of stuff that she should have known--One day she confessed that not only wasn't she licensed or certified, she didn't even have a college degree, and she'd faked her resume!

I managed to get her quietly transferred sideways into an area that didn't really require the professional credentials(same pay, though). I didn't see her much after that, and six months later, she quit.

A year later, I've heard that she has the same supervisory job, based on the same phony resume and credentials, plus her"experience" here and references from people who used worked here, but didn't know why she was transferred--

I am torn. Should I let someone know at her new employers(our company works with them, but not her department) or just let them find out themselves?

The place she works is very near a regular sing that I attend, and every time I go by it, I get a knot in my stomach--any ideas?

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 12 May 03 - 12:45 PM

I don't really see why it should be any concern of yours any more...

But if anyone asks about her, do what yer consience tells you to do...

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 May 03 - 12:48 PM

It would be easier to form an opinion if we knew a little more about the type of work involved. Is there any way you can tell us anymore. If this person is pretending to be a surgon or a nurse - by all means report it. If it's a hairdressing license we're talking about I wouldn't worry about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: DougR
Date: 12 May 03 - 12:48 PM

Unless whatever she does endangers life or limb of someone, I agree with Clinton.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: catspaw49
Date: 12 May 03 - 01:16 PM

I'd agree with everyone except I think it goes beyond life and limb. If her being in that position can do harm in any way to other people, I'd report it. Harm can be emotional or financial as well as physical. I'm not a big believer in needing credentials, as I know a lot of folks doing jobs better than their co-workers who are often better schooled or trained for the position. You seem to say that this is not the case here.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: TIA
Date: 12 May 03 - 01:29 PM

Ratting on her doesn't seem right. However, what she is doing is definitely wrong. Perhaps you should tell her that you are aware of what she is doing and ask her to turn herself in or correct the situation. You don't have to pose it as a threat. By saying something, you've relieved your duty (unless there is some danger to life, limb, or well-being -- then you gotta rat).

I don't envy you. Good luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 03 - 02:14 PM

If she doesn't know a lot of what she should know, how is she managing to do the job now? How did she do it before? Is the only way that people are aware of the deficiency when she tells them?

Is she putting other people in harms' way, or is she an impediment to something being done efficiently and legally? For example, is she training caseworkers who would evaluate life and death issues? Is she administering people who do that kind of training? How can she know what is and isn't being covered properly if she herself doesn't have the background?

Even if she is training people who license hairdressers, if you get a hairdresser who doesn't know their job or the health and safety factors involved, you have a problem on your hands.

Sounds like she's relying on your silence. Sounds like she's taking advantage of you. You helped her out of a difficulty once and she's right back in the thick of it someplace else. Do you suppose that if she gets into trouble she won't say "but so-and-so knew all about it" and drag down others with her? Sounds like a bad apple that needs to be culled. If you say something to her directly, would she take it as a threat? That could be difficult. The state agency that she is doing the training for should be notified, without tipping her off first.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 May 03 - 02:16 PM

Yeah, I would notify the licensing/certifying bodies from whom she is claiming to be endorsed, and maybe you can do that anonymously.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 03 - 02:23 PM

If you recast the question as: "Should I inform the company that their money is being taken under false pretenses?" the answer may become clearer.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 12 May 03 - 02:53 PM

I agree with DougR. Wait a minute... I agree with DougR!!!! Now there's a rare occurrence!

Naw, seriously, everybody else has pretty much said what I would have said anyway, so I'll just offer this instead.

Human resource departments' failure to verify the information on resumes is apparently far more widespread than most people realize. At a college where I used to work the Dean of the Allied Health Department, a position only two steps down the hierarchy from President, was discovered to have faked almost his entire work and educational histories. The only degree he had was a two-year Registered Nursing degree. He pretended to have advanced degrees up to and including a Doctorate in Education. It was quite a local scandal and, as a follow-up, the local newspaper did an investigative report on the extent to which employers do or don't verify the educational and prior work claims of applicants. They found that many employers are willing to just take the applicants' words for it because it's too expensive and time consuming to confirm what they have put on their resumes. They may call an ex-employer or two, but they rarely verify educational claims. (The obvious exceptions would be medically-related jobs where the hospital, doctor's office or whatever could be held legally responsible for the actions of unqualified employees.) In Academia, it's considered a bit of an insult to even think about questioning the academic credentials that one claims to have. They also found that people do get fired for lying on their resumes far more often than many people realize. Employers usually make up some other reason for the dismissal because they don't want their own failure to verify facts in the first place made public.

Bruce

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 12 May 03 - 03:02 PM

Stilly,

You've got it pegged when you asked;
"For example, is she training caseworkers who would evaluate life and death issues? Is she administering people who do that kind of training? How can she know what is and isn't being covered properly if she herself doesn't have the background?

I don't want to be too specific,, but she is basically being put in charge of establishing the infrastructure for delivering a public health program in an area that hasn't had it before. It includes hiring personnel, training them, creating and administering the system for qualifying, screening, and treating clients, as well as doing the long term follow-up(without being too specific, this is a major health issue)--

In addition to the degrees and certifications, the job requires someone who is a self-starter and also very detail oriented--
When she was working with me, this woman nearly closed our office because she "forgot" to do the screening paperwork on a whole group of clients, many of whom turned out to be inelligible for the services we delivered to them.

And yes, this woman knows that I know--

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 12 May 03 - 03:06 PM

If the person has anything to do with health, safety or case work she should be reported immediately.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 12 May 03 - 03:06 PM

If it wasn't clear, she is in charge of her office, and there is no one supervising her onsite--

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 03 - 03:17 PM

Get her out of there as fast as you can--she's going to get someone killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Sorcha
Date: 12 May 03 - 03:17 PM

Personally, I would report her and tell her ahead of time that I was going to do it. But, then again, if I were nicer, I could be a bitch.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 12 May 03 - 03:21 PM

Given the circumstances you have described, I would be a rat. As others have indicated here, I think the real question needs to be who will be affected and how?

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 03 - 03:40 PM

Why tell her? She's not only behaving unethically and immorally, she's probably behaving illegally, if she's dealing with licensing. Why warn her? So she can quick duck out without consequences and turn up again somewhere else?

All it takes is one child dying because a poorly selected or trained caseworker can't figure out how to act and when to act and it will all come home to roost. Why let that child die? Why strangle the health care of people who must use this agency while she gets her on-the-job training? If she's lacking the bona fides to do the job, do you think she's out there mingling in the field with professionals who are exchanging ideas and learning from each other? No--she's trying not to be detected. She's hiding in plain sight. Drop the dime this afternoon, and put a hard copy in the mail, certified, return receipt requested, to the head of the department.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Guest - ET
Date: 12 May 03 - 04:26 PM

No matter what you do, some people will agree with your actions everyone will have an idea what you ought to have done (but only after the fact).

My question to you is - can you resolve this in a way that will take the onus off of you?   For instance, write to the dean of the college that supposedly issued the credentials.

Request a copy of their answer go to HR/personnel of the firm. That way, you're giving benefit of doubt, HR gets enough of a warning that they should check up on this person. You've set wheels in motion but you're out of the loop.

And hopefully your stomach quiets down. Gad it's miserable (been there but not since the late teen years when a dorm floor-mate was puffing illegal substances, thank goodness!) (One Zen bottle of Tums coming your way) ET

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 03 - 04:56 PM

A university won't respond to a request from an individual who has no authorization to request or receive the information. They also won't go out and do anything about someone claiming to have a degree from their institution. Like the Supreme Court, they wait for the proper occasion to respond, because confidential records (those they have and DON'T have) are called into question.

M. Incognito has to decide who the correct agency official is to send his/her information to, and probably find someone in the state attorney general's office (or similar law-enforcement agency) to send a carbon copy to, to avoid the first agency thinking they might conceal the fact that this woman shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

There may be no simple answer when a possible domino effect can happen once she is identified.

Sorry to seem so dogmatic about my answer, but my Mom, with an MSW, worked for a State Child Protective Services Department until she retired. I heard a lot of stories from within the agency when I was growing up.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Q
Date: 12 May 03 - 05:58 PM

I can't even get an address of a former classmate from my university unless I join the Alumni Association and get it from them (if he is a member). Your letter would go into the recycle bin.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 12 May 03 - 06:38 PM

I have a guiding rule that often helps me out of such spots: Never betray a confidence. I'm not clear whether she relayed information to you in confidence, or whether she was forced by circumstances (or somewhere in between.)

If she was a clinical care worker, this would be much easier. I will offend many, including the questioner, I think, by stating that I wouldn't worry so much about the professional competence of a health care administrator, degreed or otherwise.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 12 May 03 - 06:40 PM

I should have said clinical care worker or CPS professional. Both of those would be easy.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: NicoleC
Date: 12 May 03 - 06:52 PM

As others have said, part of the equation has to be, "Does she do a good job." Half of the "requirements" for jobs are bogus; designed partly to prevent the company from being sued and partly to weed out the worst applicants.

It sounds like she *doesn't* do a good job, from what you said. It sounds like her incompetance is costing taxpayers money and preventing people from getting the services they need. And people who lie about these things really rub me the wrong way.

BUT -- if you are concerned about anonymity when making this accusation, I think you have your answer. In that case, you don't like it, but you aren't concerned enough to put your name to it.

Of course, you don't know for certain she faked her resume. She might have told you that to elicit sympathy to do part of her work for her. Any accusation you do make needs to be tempered with your uncertainty about the truth, and/or as a suggestion to verify her background. Otherwise you could be in hot water for making false accusations.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: harpgirl
Date: 12 May 03 - 07:23 PM

If she were a nurse, doctor, psychologist, social worker, mental health counselor, marriage and family therapist, physical therapist, or supposedly qualified in some other health care profession and you knew the individual was working in the field but without proper credentials because you were also in the field and were properly credentialed, or because you worked for a company that re-certified such individuals with CEU's or for state or federal licenses, in america the answer is YES, you must report. But you can do it anonymously, to the appropriate state licensing board. Then it is on their shoulders. The answer is simplier than one would assume, in my view. harp

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: CET
Date: 12 May 03 - 07:23 PM

Incognito:

I don't think this person has any right to protection of anything she might have said in "confidence". I'm also not too concerned about the degree of harm she might cause in her new job. A cheat is a cheat. The fact that she seems to be in a position to do harm only makes it more important to turn her in.

You should go into this with your eyes open, though. How will your employers react if they find out that you knew she had faked her resume and didn't tell anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Tweed
Date: 12 May 03 - 07:52 PM

Why is this bothering you so McIncog? Have you informed co-workers of this thing that you were privy to after the woman left? I see no reason why you should interfere in this human being's desire to better herself and put food on her table. Do you? Really, now. It's not like you witnessed a murder or anything. If she does the job, shows up on time and takes exactly 30 minutes for lunch let her supervisor's discover their mistake if they choose to. Walk in her shoes and then do what is right. Unless of course she iz a weld inspector at a nuclear power plant. Otherwise yore okay and that's my opinion for what little weight it may carry.

Yerz,
Tweed

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 03 - 08:18 PM

Do IT!

Do it anonymously!

Employment is tight, it belongs to those who have the right.

Post the dirty linen, right here on the MC, and one of us will do it for you. Be creative!

I work with a program that recieves govt funding. We had hired for us a director (never had a director before but she had friend in a high place, who created the position and the friend left two months later.) This director's salary equals all of ours (six part-timers). On the first week she admited she knew nothing. Two years later the program is folding, she did not write the grants, proposals, contracts, or followup on two years of government reports and audits. We are almost happy to see the 25 year program fold because the lazy director will go with it. However, we are sad for the 200 to 500 children a year who once recieved jobs through the CETA, JTPA, and now WIA job training programs.

NEVER reward larceny, incompetance, or decete

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Tweed
Date: 12 May 03 - 08:30 PM

Yes, Why not!! Post it as an anonymous GUEST!! You'll feel so good inside. Nothing beats crushing a person's livelyhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 12 May 03 - 08:43 PM

Livelyhood that could harm others, Tweed?

Incognito needs good records of his/her own role in this, if there are any extant. Make copies of important documents that protect yourself and keep them in a safety deposit box. No one is suggesting that care not be taken when following through with this.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Mudlark
Date: 12 May 03 - 10:03 PM

Aside from all the valid advice offered here, I think, Incognito, if you read your own input over again you already have your answer. You are not just uncomfortable about this, you are agonized enough to get a knot in your stomach, and your posts make it clear you feel this person is in a position to do real damage. Do what you think is right, with as much protection for yourself as you can muster. I think the suggestions about couching the whistle blowing in terms of questioning and doubt, rather than accusation are helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Cluin
Date: 12 May 03 - 11:10 PM

I'd say you had a golden opp. here to pick up a bit of extortion cash on the side. Play your cards right and you could spin the whole scenario out into a new reality series on one of the networks. They're obviously hurting for ideas right now. A bit more cashola in the pocketola, man.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: toadfrog
Date: 12 May 03 - 11:43 PM

I wouldn't use the word "rat," it is thieves' jargon. If the person is doing real harm, report her. If not, don't. You may know whether she is doing real harm; we have no way of telling, so our advice is really not too useful. But the idea of not "ratting" is a romanticised part of criminals' ideology.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 13 May 03 - 01:56 AM

A word from the other side. Credentials are a peculiar thing. My business partner suggested that I claim a PhD on an proposal we are submitting for a service contract with a casino in Atlantic City. My response to him was that we have enough experience and he has enough paper that the proposal should be allowed to be handled on its merits. We may be up against some stiff competition but I have persuaded him that we do not need to put ourselves at risk for the sake of a contract. We are good enough that we can sell the concept sooner or later.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Frug
Date: 13 May 03 - 03:42 AM

Whatever the pros and cons of credentials, what is really worrying is deceit. If someone is palpably not up to the job then it will eventually come to light. If a big mistake is made and there is an investigation then the question might be asked as to how that person ended up where they did. The trail could lead back to you........A defense that might be used could be "well so and so knew about it and thought it was alright/did nothing...." If this person has forged their own credentials might they not help others to forge theirs, it sounds as though they mat be in a position to do just that........Incognito you know what to do !

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 13 May 03 - 04:08 AM

Don't you have to show your credentials when applying for a job either in original or in certified copies? So it is over here.
When faked documents are shown, it is fraudulence - a crime which has to be prosecuted by the State's Attorney.
So let it be with her.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Helen
Date: 13 May 03 - 05:37 AM

In our region, just in the past couple of months, a scandal blew up with lots of media coverage about a manager who left a high paying job to become the even more highly paid General Manager (i.e. head honcho) of a large Sydney Local Council (i.e a local government council). He was accused of fraudulently claiming that he held specific degrees and qualifications.

The university he claimed to have degrees from was investigating the issue and I think that they reported it to the Independent Commission Against Corruption, which is the big scary Big-Brother organisation which keeps everyone on their toes here in Oz in cases of suspected foul play. Even the biggest politicians in the land are scared of ICAC.

I haven't heard the outcome of the investigation but the man never took up his new position because the new organisation was notified that there had been a lot of questions about his qualifications in his previous job.

In my opinion, this is a big issue and if I were in MC Incognito's place I would definitely be working out a way to alert both my current organisation and this woman's new employer, by casting doubts on the validity of her qualifications.

Two things provide the foundation for my belief in taking this action:

1) I teach subjects on Human Resource Management, Industrial Relations, Business, Management, Organisational Effectiveness etc, and I see the profound implications of this fraudulent behaviour in a lot of the processes and results which make an organisation effective. The organisation has a right to get what they pay for, and the right to expect a high level of service, and to expect to achieve the right outcomes from their employees. It is defrauding the organisation but also, more importantly, it is tainting the work of that organisation.

2) By finding a way to cast doubts on her qualifications, rather than becoming an outspoken "Whistle Blower" you will hopefully be avoiding a much worse possible consequence, which is that you could be bullied and victimised by the organisation for "pointing out their failures or incompetence". You need to protect yourself from the backlash.

Is there someone you trust absolutely in a higher position in the organisation who can discreetly raise the issue, either with your organisation or with the woman's new employer?   Or is there someone in the other organisation who can raise the questions there?

Either way, whatever you choose to do, you are going to be agonising over whether you did the right thing, so my suggestion is to be as objective as possible and go with the decision which you are able to live with. In my case, I would have to do what I considered to be the right thing, and I suspect that you may feel the same, but please, as we say in Oz "cover your own arse" and don't make yourself vulnerable in the process.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 May 03 - 06:30 AM

It is interesting here how many organizations only do cursory checks at best when hiring for positions that might well involve doing harm in some way.

When I went to work for Airtex as a rep, they wanted certified copies of everything from my birth certificate to my college transcripts, including even my high school records! They did drug tests, a physical exam by their docs, and a credit check. The parent company was UIS, a very conservative Fortune 500, but for the love of Pete, I was only peddling fuel and water pumps!!!

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 May 03 - 06:55 AM

Helen is right - if you can find a way to bring this discrepancy to the attention of her managers (and unless she is CEO, there has to be one) without bringing attention to yourself, then do so.

One thing managers hate more than being wrong, is being proved wrong by an "underling".... been there, done that, had the tribunals, got the mental health problems to boot.


Having said that, in all conscience, there is only one way to go, and we'll always be here for support/sarcastic comments when the organic waste product hits the mechanised air-displacer.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 May 03 - 08:04 AM

"Rat"? Bad choice of word, as noted above. Should you expose this person's deceit and dishonesty? Of course. A no brainer.

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem"

;>)

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Greg F.
Date: 13 May 03 - 08:07 AM

My business partner suggested that I claim a
PhD on an proposal...

yup- lie and cheat your way to success. The American way. I'd be looking for a new partner.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Willie-O
Date: 13 May 03 - 08:35 AM

Let's revisit the question:
> I pushed to get a co-worker/friend promoted to a supervisory >position--we started working together and it became clear that she >didn't know a lot of stuff that she should have known--One day she >confessed that not only wasn't she licensed or certified, she didn't >even have a college degree, and she'd faked her resume!

>I managed to get her quietly transferred sideways into an area that >didn't really require the professional credentials.

Houston, YOU have a problem here. I just wonder: why are you asking us?   The answer, whatever it is, is in your gut. Only you understand the complexities of the situation. You obviously aren't comfortable with letting it ride, or this thread wouldn't exist.

If it was me, I would put aside questions of obligations to bureaucracies, and consider obligations to people involved, both employees and clients. If the worst thing she did was provide services to a bunch of people who needed them but were technically ineligible, that suggests a lack of political savvy but not exactly malfeasance. One suspects she won't slip up that way again, since making your organization vulnerable to a critical backlash is a surefire way to shorten your career.

If she was foolish enough to tell you she was faking your way through life, you're probably not the only one she told.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: harpgirl
Date: 13 May 03 - 08:55 AM

...I forgot to say that I believe this to be made up question because it is unlikely that people working for an organization that provides training to licensed, state certified, degreed people routinely hires unlicensed, uncertified, undegreed people to do the training. It doesn't work that way in these organizations in health care.   
      Credentials are always poneyed up in legitmate organizations. In fact, just to get referrals in my area of health care, I have to provide every kind of documentation available, including my vitae, state license, copies of transciprt, business licenses, malpractice cover sheet, national organization licenses, driver's license copy, W9, incorporation documention, full battery of questions about my (non-existent) feloney record, sign a contract with twenty pages of clauses in it, etc., etc, and most states require fingerprinting.
And what's with the "I pushed and then I managed" stuff? Come on, friend...cut the crap...What is our incognito mudcatter really up to?

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: artbrooks
Date: 13 May 03 - 09:08 AM

I was the director of a hospital Human Resource program before I retired, and I have run across this sort of thing. Consider seriously the anonimity issue. Unless this person is your best friend in all the world and her friendship means everything to you (and I gather from what you have said that is not true), then name names (including yours), places, dates, locations, and so forth. An unsigned letter that basically says "Mary Sue doesn't have the bachelor's degree in underwater basket weaving that she needs for this job" realy won't get a lot of consideration.

The exception, and several people have mentioned this, is if the credentials indicate some sort of professional competency that is essential for the position. For example, if someone had come to us and said "Dr. Smith's medical degree is bogus" we would have jumped right on it, and probably put him/her in the medical library reading journals until the investigation was finished.

You said that she is basically being put in charge of establishing the infrastructure for delivering a public health program in an area that hasn't had it before. It includes hiring personnel, training them, creating and administering the system for qualifying, screening, and treating clients, as well as doing the long term follow-up. So, what she is doing is something like setting up a diabetics screening program in a critically medically-underserved area like an Indian reservation, without understanding the basics of public health? Get her the hell out of there!! Right now!! This is not a you and her issue; it can seriously effect the health and well-being of others.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Sam L
Date: 13 May 03 - 10:00 AM

If the work matters at all to anybody, you should report it and be done with it. Anybody includes people who work under this supervisor, or are better qualified for her job. So even if you are in a factory producing do-nothing toys for no one, I'd say report it. This person made you complicit in a fraud by telling you about it, and there really isn't a sane reason to let it pass. She shouldn't put more years into something that is that fragile, it'll wreck her worse the longer it goes.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 13 May 03 - 10:55 AM

For those who wonder, this is not a made up question. My description may seem a little off kilter simply because I have tried to be vague enough not to give away the person, the organization, or the work involved. Even considering this, some of you have come eerily close to describing the real situation in your replies. I won't say who, though;-)

Some of you have picked up my ambivalence. Part of this has to do with the fact that there will probably be some sort of backlash at work, and dealing will take time away from my work, with no benefit to our organization.

Another part is that I feel like I made a couple of mistakes as a manager. First by giving a friend a position without doing the interviewing and evaluation that I would have given to any other applicant. Second, by trying to help her out of a difficult situation, I actually made it possible for her to go on with her deceptions.

Partly, I don't do anything because the organization that hired her should have checked her credentials(like I should have), and didn't. It is their responsibility to manage the program, not mine.

Most everyone agrees that I have an obligation to act if there is a real, clear danger to someone. This program is a prevention/early intervention program, and if it is properly set up and delivered, over a long period time lives may be saved, but a lot of things have to fall into place before it gets to that point, and one phone call from me isn't going to make it or break it.

It may be that I am mostly angry because I assumed that a friend had just made a mistake, and now I am finding out that it wasn't an isolated mistake, it was a pattern.

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: GUEST,Mudcatter Incognito
Date: 13 May 03 - 11:04 AM

For those who wonder, this program was created at a State Unversity with private funding. They administer and over see it, but it is being delivered by private foundations through county and municipal infrastructures, and is underwritten through Federal funding. Could I have made that up? ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 May 03 - 11:44 AM

You seem to bow be showing some fear of looking like an idiot yourself.....Let me help you out.

SCENARIO ONE: Someone else reports this or she screws up and the truth comes out. Either is likely. Your boss comes to you and asks if you knew about this. You have no good answer do you? If you say yes you knew and did nothing, of I were your boss, you'd go next! If you say you didn't know, then I as your boss figure you're incompetent as well as the other group, and I begin to formulate a plan for shuffling your ass out the door!

SCENARIO TWO: You report this and admit your own mistake. I (the boss) figure that you should have done a better job, but I want you on the payroll because you have just shown yourself honest and not afraid to admit your mistakes when you find them. I'll take 25 of you to the above two people anytime. Matter of fact, that level of honesty and admitting guilt is something a lot of managers look for.

Your choice........

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: Willie-O
Date: 13 May 03 - 11:52 AM

OK, so you didn't just give her a good recommendation, but actually hired her, on a basis of (no more mincing words) personal favouritism?

Wonder what the hell she was thinking of when she told all to you?

Yup, there will be a backlash if you report the situation. And if you report her anonymously, you will be reporting on yourself too, without giving yourself the benefit of being the whistleblower.

Again, it's your decision. But if you come clean on the whole thing, maybe you won't have that gnawing feeling. You might make a bunch more problems for yourself, but you'll be past the wondering what to do stage.   

Good luck.

W-O

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: harpgirl
Date: 13 May 03 - 12:05 PM

My apologies for doubting you, MI. You do have a dilemma...you will certainly clear your conscience if you admit your own mistakes but the outcome might not be as good a one for you at Pat predicts. Good luck....hg

Subject: RE: BS: Should I Rat on Former Co-Worker?
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 May 03 - 12:12 PM

Harpy, I quite agree that Scenario Two may be optimistic, but I will flat guarantee that Scenario One is balls on the money!

Spaw