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BS:Jewish Prime Minister? (Michael Howard)
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Subject: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: GUEST,Sionline Date: 19 Feb 04 - 02:28 PM JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) If the British Conservative party wins the next General election then Britain will at last have its first ethnic minority Prime Minister. Michael Howard, leader of the Conservative Party, is Jewish. As a Jew, I myself should support the idea of a Jewish-led Britain.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Herga Kitty Date: 19 Feb 04 - 02:45 PM So where, ethnically, does that leave Benjamin Disraeli, who already has been the Prime Minister (19th century, during the reign of Queen Victoria)? My grandmother died in a Nazi concentration camp too and my grandfather in the Warsaw ghetto, but I still wouldn't vote for a Conservative party led by Michael Howard after his dismal record as Home Secretary. Many Jewish migrants to Britain changed their names to ones the Brits could pronounce. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: The Shambles Date: 19 Feb 04 - 02:54 PM Napoleon was a Scot |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Walking Eagle Date: 19 Feb 04 - 02:58 PM Trolling,trolling over the bounding Main. As for a few of your points though. I guess you'd have to ask the gentlemen in question why they changed their names. Also, you jumped from a Jewish Prime Minister of Britain in your first paragraph to Jewish dominated new world order in your last statement. Odd, since as you point out, Jews are but a small portion of the population of the United States and Grest Britain. Just interested as a point of observation and discussion. My q |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Walking Eagle Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:03 PM OOps. Hit the submit button. My questions will be lost in the discussion to follow in this thread, I know. So, what kind of folk music do you like? Do you play an instrument or sing or dance to any traditional tunes? I always like to as these questions to a new poster. Myself, I'm Native American and I play the lap dulcimer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: alanabit Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:05 PM Have you really never heard of Benjamin Disraeli, sionline? A Jewish Prime Minister in itself would be a problem to very few people, however, as a pacifist, I fear that you might find it very hard work to justify voting for either of the British Conservative parties. (By "Conservative" I refer, of course, to Michael Howard's Conservative Party and New Labour). You made such a long and rambling series of statements - not all of which I disagree with - that you did not really map out a clear case for a Jewish Prime Minister. However, I should state categorically that the evidence for the mass extermination of Jews, Sinti, homosexuals and East Europeans is overwhelming and indisputable. Most of the evidence which hanged the leading Nazis at Nürnberg came from their own documentation. I have visited Mauthausen twice. The bestiality of the Nazis does beggar belief, but I'm afraid that it really did happen. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Metchosin Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:15 PM Herga Kitty, IMO paranoid, conspriracy theory trolls more often than not conveniently forget real history or warp it in an effort to be cute or to desparately give credence to their pathetic ideas. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Wolfgang Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:16 PM Very thinly disguised anti-semitic crap. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: GUEST,Teribus Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:37 PM GUEST,Sionline Suck back sunshine you are even more entertaining than the Dreaded Guest, your post initiating this thread has given me the best laugh I've had all week. Wolfgang, Entertaining, in an odd sort of way it may have been, but I fully concur with your comment above. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Nerd Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:50 PM I was puzzled by this at first, until I got to the "no evidence the holocaust ever happened" bit. Then I understood it is what Wolfgang expressed above. I should have saved time by reading this thread from the bottom up! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 19 Feb 04 - 03:57 PM GUEST,sionline said, in part: But one thing does concern me: Why did Michael change his original Jewish surname to "Howard"? You are assuming, for the purpose of your diatribe, that he changed his name. I don't know that, and I don't think YOU know that. At least four other scenarios come to mind: a.) He may be a convert b.) Someone farther back in his family may have changed the name, and Howard is what he was born with c.) His father, or some male back further, may have married a Jewish woman, and Howard inherited the putatively non-Jewish name that way, but was brought up in Judaism d.) "Howard" may be an Anglicization of an earlier Jewish ethnic name. And additionally, SO WHAT? He is who he is, and is or is not qualified for office, and it should stand on that. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Walking Eagle Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:16 PM As for me, I'm goin' fishin'. Ice fishing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: CarolC Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:34 PM I agree with Wolfgang. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Walking Eagle Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:35 PM Yep, hope to get some nice pickerel. Catch and release I call it. You catch them and hope they release your arm! I think Dave may have hit it right about the sur name. So, what about what I asked? What are your folk/musical interests? |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Herga Kitty Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:40 PM Of course it's trolling. Michael Howard's parents were Lithuanian, but he grew up in Wales. We haven't had a Welsh Prime Minister since David Lloyd George. The idea of a Lithuanian Jewish Welsh Conservative Prime Minister might be interesting if the politicians' records weren't so uninspiring. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Gareth Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:50 PM Howards Father changed his name when he settled in Swansea, (I think in the early 1950's tho I am open to correction on this) Unfortunatley not only Howard, but Heseltine and Howe can also claim Welsh birth. Which is funny as I have always thought that Howard came ashore at Whitby (BG) Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Peace Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:51 PM Walking Eagle: I tried ice fishing once. Cut a hole in the ice, stood in the hole and began to cast. Damn near froze my feet. And, I didn't catch any fish. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: GUEST,Martin Gibson Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:01 PM Do you know that Moe, Curly, and Shemp Howard's original name was Horowitz? I would vote for any of them for PM of England if I lived there, which I don't because of bizzarro people like sionline live there. Anyone, especially a felow Jew that denies that the holocaust existed usually make a popping sound when they pull their head out of their ass. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Herga Kitty Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:07 PM Yes, Gareth, but the Conservative Party was more or less wiped out in Wales (at least in terms of MPs) in 1997. And it got marginalised in Scotland too. Heseltine and Howe were despatched to the House of Lords. The question is, can Michael Howard's leadership win enough seats for a Conservative Government to take over next year.....? and however dire New Labour may be, one hopes not.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: sian, west wales Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:18 PM Hold on! I thought MH was a Llanelli boy!?? Now, ya gotta have guts to be a Tory in Llanelli! sian |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Walking Eagle Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:19 PM Brucie, I'll have to teach you the Cherokee two step sometime. The idea is to catch fish to keep you warmed up. I've never seen the fancy fish houses like they have in Minnesota. I've heard that some are real humdingers with TVs and everything. I have a little three sided tent and a small butane heater. I drill about three or four holes and set my flags at all but the one that my tent is near. I can catch about five,six fish at a time. Just enough. And NO TROLLING! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: akenaton Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:33 PM I don't see Sionlines' post as "trolling",but a fine and amusing use of irony. All you Americans read and learn....Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Gareth Date: 19 Feb 04 - 07:54 PM Sian - Or stupidity !!!! Actually your are Correct - he claims an Llanelli childhood. But then Essex born, and Essex raised, Hairy Mellon Jones claims to be the AM for Llanelli. In either case Wales' shame. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 19 Feb 04 - 08:17 PM All depends how you define being Jewish. Disraeli was a practising member of the Church of England. From a Jewish family of course. Howard would be the first practicing Jew to be Prime Minister, except that I doubt if he'll make it. But that wouldn't be anything to do with his being Jewish. (More to do with being Welsh, some would say, after poor old Kinnock's experience...) |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Walking Eagle Date: 19 Feb 04 - 09:32 PM Note that our troller hasn't shown up to defend what he wrote? |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: greg stephens Date: 19 Feb 04 - 09:35 PM this thread is drivel trolling do not discuss |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: alanabit Date: 20 Feb 04 - 12:30 PM One of the most striking differences between a Jumbo jet and the Conservative Party is that the Jumbo has 200 seats... |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Peace Date: 20 Feb 04 - 12:45 PM Walking Eagle, Have you ever or are you familiar with setting nets under the ice? I saw this done once in Fort Chipewyan (northern Alberta). It is ingenious. The people there are Cree and Chipewyan. I don't know if I have the ability to describe it, but I could try if you want. My notion of ice fishing is much like yours. If I wanted the TV I'd stay at home if I had a TV at home. Gotta go. Bruce M |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: GUEST,Van Date: 20 Feb 04 - 02:50 PM Anyone noticed how sionline hasn't replied? anyone wondered how many other sites it may have posted on? anyone thought it isn't worth powder and shot. And meanwhile Howard hangs by his feet in his belfry. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Peace Date: 20 Feb 04 - 06:14 PM Oh, yeah, Walking Eagle, Are you familiar with the rock method for telling what the weather will be like? I bit on that one years ago, and if you haven't heard it, I'll message you personally. Let me know. Bruce M |
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Subject: Anti-Semitism & The Thought Police: From: GUEST, The Thought Police Date: 21 Feb 04 - 11:23 AM Anti-Semitism & The Thought Police: Anti-Semitism against Jews is far more important and serious than anti-Semitism against Arabs (Arabs are also Semites.) Anti-Jewish racism is also far more serious than racism against blacks or Asians or any other races. What we need is an international force of "thought police", with powers to arrest and detain people who oppose anything or anybody Jewish or Israeli, even when their criticism is legitimate. Fortunately this International Jewish Police Force may soon be a reality: " ... calls by Jewish leaders for national governments to set up special taskforces to monitor and combat anti-Semitism - as France and Italy have recently done - and co-ordinate action internationally." "while criticism of Israel was legitimate, it was often a vehicle for anti-Semitism." "The powerful international Jewish lobby had the ear of the EU government this week to discuss plans to make Europe more pro-Jewish." "Influential pro-Jewish groups, including the Israeli government, the World Jewish Congress, the European Jewish Congress, the Congress of European Rabbis, the "Community Security Trust", etc, had their own special "high-level" meeting to speak directly to European leaders and policy-makers about Jewish interests." ("The seminar was briefly postponed after Mr Benatoff and the head of the World Jewish Congress, Edgar Bronfman, accused the EU and Mr Prodi himself of fostering anti-Semitism. The charge infuriated Mr Prodi, who was recently honoured by European rabbis for his part in promoting what he calls "a Europe of diversity".) http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3502019.stm |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Peace Date: 21 Feb 04 - 11:28 AM Well, I always wondered what a really big pile of bullshit would look like, and now I know. Thanks, GUEST,TTP. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Amos Date: 21 Feb 04 - 12:00 PM I came home last night from a week away on a trip for work, testing hardware out in the desert east of here -- very rugged environment, dry, cold, rocky and hostile. Most of all. I brought no guitar with me. So it was with great delight that I picked up my old Martin and felt my fingers falling into the familiar patterns, doing runs and couplets up and down the neck; it was the finest homecoming one could wish for. There is nothing like music to heal the trials and stresses of life in the world. Music also heals between nations and groups -- I sat once around a campfie in the hills of northern Thailand and traded songs with people from Thailand, Vietnam, France, the UK and Greece, and every song that came out was a thin strand of common understanding and a little piece of affinity for the human species. I could recite a dozen such experiences all over the world. Just in my own lifetime. Deteriorating into hatred is to lose music, and vice-versa. Some thing worth at least trying to remember. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Dave Hanson Date: 22 Feb 04 - 01:15 AM If Michael Howard ever gets to be British prime minister I'll eat my hat, fishing flies and all. He aint got a snowballs chance in hell, not just him mind, the whole bleedin party. eric |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Feb 04 - 09:40 AM No need for a second Conservative Party, when there's one in power anyway, even if it calls itself something different. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 22 Feb 04 - 10:12 AM Herga and alanabit, Disraeli or his family somewhere along the line changed faith, though I don't know the circumstances. At any rate he was not a Jew by faith while PM. I hope it was not that he had to renounce Judaism in order to be PM - certainly there was no legal impediment to a Jew taking office. Msybe if Howard gets the top job, he will do for Jews what Thatcher did for women.... Not a lot. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 22 Feb 04 - 10:23 AM Disraeli was 1804 was born on Friday, December 21, 1804, to Isaac and Maria D'Israeli, and baptized into the Church of England, July 31 1817. I don't think there'd have been any constitutional bar to his being Prime Minister if he'd been a practicing Jew. (There would have been if he'd been a Catholic.) Mind, there might have been other obstacles in the way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Peace Date: 22 Feb 04 - 03:21 PM This type of thing was bandied around when JFK became the first Catholic President of the United States of America. I don't know that one's religion seems to make a heckuva lotta difference in terms of what the elected accomplish while in office. I've often thought that the country would run OK if the politicians died off. Most of us wouldn't miss them for years. The job of bureaucrats is to keep the machinery of government functioning. And that they do. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Peter K (Fionn) Date: 22 Feb 04 - 08:45 PM McGrath, I don't think there'd have been a problem if Disraeli had been a Catholic either. Surely the relevant discriminatory acts had all been repealed by the time he took office? |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: alanabit Date: 23 Feb 04 - 04:51 AM Don't quote me on this, but I fear there could have been. Certainly even the minor royals need special permission to marry Catholics even to this day. I don't think it's ever declined in practice, but it's a pretty unlovely bit of protocol to have with us. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Dave the Gnome Date: 23 Feb 04 - 11:14 AM There is no bar on a Catholic become Prime Minister. However the Catholic Relief Act of 1839 makes it illegal for a Roman Catholic to directly or indirectly advise the Sovereign on appointments in the Church of England. Similarly, with a non-Christian Prime minister there would be no legal reason to prevent it but, as the Sovereigns advisor, the PM would either have to give up his or her power to assist in the appointment of Bishops or the Church of England would have to accept a non C of E 'director'. I suspect the latter would occur if it ever came about and I see it as being a change for the good of unification of differing faiths. Too many ifs of course... Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: GUEST Date: 24 Feb 04 - 12:40 AM alanabit, The reason regarding marriage between 'Royals' and Catholics, I think relates to the Act of Succession. As the head of the Church of England, a Roman Catholic cannot be King, or Queen, of the United Kingdom. |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: alanabit Date: 24 Feb 04 - 01:55 PM For me that's another good argument for both disestablishng the church and and ending the monarchy. I'm in a minority though! |
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Subject: RE: BS: JEWISH PRIME MINISTER? (Michael Howard) From: Nigel Parsons Date: 25 Feb 04 - 06:18 AM Alanabit: it would be a good argument for either disestablishing the church or ending the monarchy, but surely cannot be an argument for both. The success of it as an argument for either would negate its effect as an argument for the other Nigel |
