BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Mudlark
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 08:15 PM

Even with warning, the sheer improbability of what people along those shorelines were seeing kept them riveted to the spot when they could have been fleeing. Got an email from a friend visiting in Thailand who was eating a late breakfast overlooking the beach on a beautiful sunny day. The first wave emptied (!) the bay as it took form, then as in slow motion headed for the beach. Everyone sat mesmerized before this rare and beautiful event. There was no sense of fear, only awe and amazement. The 2nd wave was much larger than the first, came in much farther, crashing right into the restaurant, taking with it chairs and tables. Slowly it began to dawn on people that they were in danger and most began moving away from the shoreline. The 3rd wave came across the street and right into the hotels and bungalows. By then trucks were arriving to take people to the hills.

Gives the word "awesome" it's full meaning. Original archaic usage indicated dreadful, terrifying.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 08:45 PM

An acquaintance of mine in Juneau was in Kodiak Island during the 1964 Alaska earthquake with its subsequent tsunami. She said the wave came in six different times. She said the people had retreated to the hills above the shore and were able to see it all.

I read once that the reason you can't outrun a tsnunami is that the wave can be traveling 150 milers per hour. Even then, with a proper system in place there can be quite a bit of warning.

Years ago I lived on the Oregon coast. Whenever there was a seismic event that could have caused a tsunami the police traveled slowly through the neighborhoods with a peculiar sounding siren, which told us to head for higher ground.

Here in Juneau Alaska, with the ocean right at our doorstep we really have only one place to run, and that is up the mountains behind us. Our land mass is severely limited. On the other hand, the hundreds of small islands out there break up normal ocean waves so that we get no wave action at all. A tsunami might bring a upswelling of water but no wave as such. In 1964, several boats tied up at the docks overturned with the swelling but there was no damage otherwise. Very different from 600 air miles away.

Some funny stories came out of that quake. One young couple in Anchorage found themselves flung to the ground outside their cabin, where they rode the earth, sometimes looking up at their cabin, sometimes down on it as the earth shrieked and roared with tremendous noise. The woman started praying out loud. Her husband yelled into her ear: "Louder! Louder!"

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Bill D
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 09:41 PM

ebbie...I kinow the mountains you mean...I 1975 I climbed up the trail behind the town. I still have slides of the town from way up high.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Ebbie
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 09:54 PM

By the way, I mistyped - that should be 500 miles per hour that a tsunami can travel, not 150. I went back to fix it and somehow typed in the other number.

NBC just said on the news that the Atlantic Coast has no tsunami warning system. Brrrrrrr. These third world countries, you know.

Bill D, one of these times I hope you and Ferrara come here again. We would love to show you off to everybody. Incidentally I know just what overlook you took your photos from! There is now a tramway that runs up to the timber line. In the summertime, of course. Tourists, you know.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 11:16 PM

Mary, it sounds as if you live near Crab Harbor. That's awesome. WELL worth the risks!   I live on a sand spit, too, down south. I'll have to check in to those warning things (or get a television or radio perhaps -- nah.)

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 11:17 PM

Ease up on Mary Garvey. She is asking a perfectly reasonable question. It would, in fact, have been possible. F__k political leanings and previous thread disputes - it is theoretically possible that people could have been given better warning. Can we please admit that so that next ime it will be better?

And, for the record, no one has (or could) say that the USA is to blame. Nature's power makes the USA look puny in the extreme. This is a global, HUMAN catastrophe. Let's all be good humans in our response.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: harpgirl
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 12:29 AM

This is a natural event of devastating magnitude. I listened to this story on NPR tonight. I could imagine the gentle rolling of the waves out in the ocean and the five hundred mile an hour surge over the shallow coastlines. What a tragedy! The earth almost seems to be fighting humanity back....The ice shelves are calving at a rapid rate and the world is warming fast. The weather is much more violent it seems to me.....

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 12:50 AM

brucie
I believe the year was 1968.

Harpgirl, the 500mph speed is in the deep ocean. At shore it is no more than 50mph. The video I have seen from atop a 20 story hotel showing the 30 foot wave rush ashore over samller buildings a mere 100 yards was amazing.

...........................................

Now imagine a 5 km asteroid hitting the mid Atlantic.

The resulting wave would be about one mile tall in many shoreline locations.

My friends, that is the differnece between a catastrophe and a catacysm.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 01:14 AM

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/WA-feels-the-tsunamis-ripples/2004/12/28/1103996534617.html

WA feels the tsunami's ripples
December 28, 2004 - 1:24PM

Unusual tidal surges and strong currents hitting the coastline of
Western Australia, caused by the devastating Indian Ocean tsunami, are set to continue for at least 24 hours, forecasters have warned.

Meteorologists said they did not know exactly how long the local effects of the undersea earthquake would last, but they were expecting the surges to last at least throughout today.

Perth Bureau of Meteorology duty forecaster Grant Elliott said the
bizarre consequences of the world's worst earthquake in 40 years were
hard to predict.

"We do expect the effects to continue, and we have had anecdotal
evidence of tides up to a metre higher than normal," Mr Elliott said.

"But because this is beyond our experience we don't know what ripples
might remain in the basin, so we just don't know who, what, where or why really."

The first waves arrived on the west coast on Sunday afternoon and
continued into yesterday.

Tidal surges were reported from Geraldton, 425 km north of Perth - where several boats in the port lost their moorings - to Busselton, 232 km south of Perth.

The southern half of the state felt the greatest effects, despite being further away from the epicentre of the quake, because it was more directly in line with it.

Two people had to be rescued after strong tidal surges swept them out to sea in Busselton, where surges of one metre every 30 to 60 minutes were reported.

AAP

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Nemesis
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 07:51 AM

39,000 lives now reported lost ...

Oxfam is one of the agencies already in many of the countries affected

Click here to donate: Oxfam South Asia Tsunami disaster

Others (Google?) are:
CAFOD - Catholic Aid agency
Christian Aid
Save the Children

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Nemesis
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 07:56 AM

In the past 10 minutes, the death toll has risen to over 40,000

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Nemesis
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 08:47 AM

In 45 minutes the death toll has climbed to 45,000 ..

In UK, Sky is providing comprehensive news coverage .. ditto BBC
What coverage is this receiving in the USA?

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Nemesis
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 09:04 AM

Just over an hour since first posting .. death toll now over 55,000

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 12:11 PM

I just heard the quake has created a buldge in the plates between Asia and Australia which could create more intense and stronger quakes to come.
All of this isn't new though. It's been happening in the history of the life of our world.
It is a trip that those islands moved, but that too has happened throughout history.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 04:08 PM

Has anyone noticed the curious death toll reported from Burma (now Myanmar?)? Closer to the epicenter than Thailand with a longer exposed coastline it only reports 34 casualties. A military regime governs there. It reminds me of the death toll reports from behind the Iron Curtain before 1989. Somehow countries with no free press always seem to be exempt from natural and human made catastrophes.

The number of German deaths by the tsunami will be in the hundreds.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Ooh-Aah2
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 04:21 PM

I see this as yet more proof that there is no God - the neat little arguments reconciling perfect good with the existence of evil trail off into silence when one sees the piles of bodies, the screams of the bereaved, the desperate relatives searching.. the day after Christmas. I know from my travels that there are no people less deserving of such suffering than the gentle, kind fishers of Tamil Nadu, and I am sure that the victims in other countrie were just as 'good'.

All one can hope for is that 2005 will be better than stinking 2004 which has to be just about the most apalling year for the suffering of innocent people that I can remember.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST,Mrr-at-work
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 04:23 PM

Georgiansilver, if you had any idea how insulting praying for these Hindus, animists and Moslems "in Jesus' name" is, you might rethink your incredible provinciality.
Then again, the several thousand Swedish tourists might appreciate it.
Wonder how many other northern countries sent boatloads of tourists there.... poor people...

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 04:59 PM

Some understandable censorship by German radio stations: A present hit titled (in translation) 'The perfect wave' is not been played anymore.

Wolfgang

Subject: 60,000+ Tsunami deaths
From: Nemesis
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 05:24 PM

I also noticed (early yesterday) that between the Sky news bulletins the commercial for P&O cruises slogan: "It's a world out there" panning away to show ship in middle of ocean) seems to have been pulled.

Death toll approaching 60,000 ... terrible scenes on TV .. and so many children seem to have been victims because they couldn't run away fast enough, nor strong enough to survive in the torrential waters .. at one resort apparently, when the sea receded (a classic indication of an approaching tsunami) many children went down onto the beach to pick up the exposed shells.

It's been confirmed that Richard Attenborough's 14 year old granddaughter is among the British casualties - her mother is still missing.

It's the virtually the only news story here in UK..Again, what coverage is there on this disaster on US media?

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: nutty
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 05:51 PM

There is excellent coverage on the BBC SITE

HERE

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 05:52 PM

I share Wolfgang's scepticism about the low casualty figures for Burma - but he's wrong about the Burmese coastline being further from the epicentre than Thailand's western coast is, as the map on this page shows.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 05:55 PM

Odd isn't, how provincial our reactions truly are. I have a friend who is in India over her winter break for her first time outside the US. It is mind blowing to me to think what she must be going through as her first time as a foreigner in India under the circumstances.

She is in Bombay, so I'm not worried about her. But it will be fascinating to hear her stories of all this when she returns.

Crazy ole world. Why don't people understand the huge numbers of casualties has nothing to do with the third world thing, but with the fact that these were heavily populated coastal tourist areas at the height of the season, with the waves hitting at a time when many people, children and fishermen and tourist industry workers especially, were just beginning their day? If a 9.0 earthquake hit just off the southern California/Mexican coast during the height of the tourist season, with tsunamis equivalent to this one, the number of deaths would be incredibly high--likely in the tens of thousands too. The reason why the Alaska earthquake doesn't compare isn't because of the ferocity of the quake, but because of the thin population in the area, which is true of most earthquakes and tsunami.

I do hope this disaster results in an early warning system for the area. It is true that in certain areas, like the Banda Aceh area of Sumatra, or the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, that there never would have been much time for warning, as it all happened so fast, and there was no place for most of the victims to go. I read that on one of the islands, when authorities finally arrived they found only a third of the island's population had survived. That is just an unimaginable scale of death.

I was online early on the 26th, as the story came in, and I watched and read in horror as the stories come in from the gitgo, while the death toll rise by the thousands each hour. Now there is talk of 60,000, and a likely doubling of that number due to water borne diseases, lack of water, food, medical supplies, and shelter and shade (lest we forget, these are tropical regions, but due to development, very little natural shade from the sun.

But I note that the German chancellor and his party were promptly airlifted out.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 06:18 PM

Thanks for the correction, McGrath, you're right.

28 Dec 04 - 05:55 PM, "the German chancellor" has interrupted his vacation (at a completely different part of the world) if that is what you meant. But perhaps you meant to write "a former German chancellor" instead of "the German chancellor"?

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 06:22 PM

Mary Garvey's reaction is similar to my initial reaction. I didn't cotton on too quickly to the facts that there had never been an occurrence in the Indian Ocean even close to this tragedy. And I was listening to NPR tonight where one of the Americans who monitored the earthquake (from a continent away) made it clear that:

1) Initial readings led them to think the magnitude was one tenth what it was.

2) Not every earthquake spawns a tsunami, that occurs when the displacement in the earth is apbruptly vertical.

When the early damage reports came in, they did the best they could to make calls to local authorities. Unfortunately there was no emergency system in place to deal with this, and also unfortunately, it was the weekend.

The conclusion is that without an actual tsunami warning system, the information they had left them with no time to warn the early victims, and no system to distribute an effective warning to the later victims.

Unfortunately, this will not bring any cheer to the millions of people whose lives have been turned upside down by deep personal and financial loss.

3) The last earthquake that was comparable in size (slightly larger) was the Good Friday quake in Alaska in 1964. It spawned a local tsunami that wiped out at least one Alaskan village. However, the population at the time was pretty sparse. Even Anchorage at the time was more of a 'town' than a city. The next time this occurs there will billions and billions in property loss, but the people are so distributed that I doubt there will be a large loss of life. About two years ago there was a magnitude 8 quake in uninhabited land but right near the Trans Alaska Pipeline. No loss of life, some loss of road, no leakage of oil.

Wolfgang, I was intrigued by the German song "The Perfect Wave". What is the title in German?

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 06:29 PM

I stand corrected as to my German chancellor error, as if it matters. The point is still the same. Their privleged status got them out, which always leaves a bad taste in my mouth in these sorts of circumstances.

Just think how much good he could have done had he stayed, and flown in US TV camera crews instead, and begged the west for massive amounts of aid on live television.

Instead, he and his party fled the scene, and now we get to hear the right wing echo chamber bitch about the UN calling all our rich nations' response to this disaster stingy.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 06:32 PM

yes...the German army seems to have sent a helicopter in to get Helmut Kohl and several in his party. I have no idea how relevant this is to the situation...perhaps the helicopter returned to do other work...*shrug*

We are just beginning to get reports from some of the more remote areas affected, and I'm sure the statistics will rise as evaluations are made.

and Nemesis...there is 'almost' constant coverage here in the US thru CNN, MSNBC, FOX News and others....we may get a break for other news, but the disaster leads most broadcasts...(along with news of the 'upgrading' of the US commitment of money and resources as cricicisms are made. Bianca Jagger was on "Crossfire", claiming that the US didn't 'give' in relation to its resources, even though we do give more than anyone else...You can't win)

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 06:37 PM

blame and accusations.

blame and accusations.

blame and accusations.

Think about what you can do to help. Contact your church or synagogue.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 06:55 PM

Two responses to this are appropriate. One is getting in help as a matter of top priority. This is a far far greater disaster than September 11th was, and requires an appropriate level of response.

The second, longer term, response should be a new recognition of the way in which we are all of us on this planet potentially vulnerable to disasters of one sort or another, and that adequate contingency plans for reacting rapidly and adequately need to be in place. That means mechanisms for transmitting and receiving warnings, and for marshalling aid and help. And it has to be coordinated internationally.

September 11th was seen as a wake-up call. This is another wake-up call, on a far greater scale.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Nemesis
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 07:24 PM

Bill D, thanks for that info ...

BTW what happened to the "international rapid reaction force "that there was talk about setting up?

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 07:50 PM

Think about what Helmut Kohl and an American television news crew could have done to help.

Seriously. I'm not talking nonsense here. He seems to have been the only world figure in the region where the disaster occurred, and he bolted as soon as he got the chance. That is despicable, considering the attention he could have gotten doing live broadcasts pleading for aid to the region. He could have shamed at least some in the wealthy nations into doing the right thing. He could have just done something for the other foreign tourists in the region. He could have done a lot of things, but instead chose to flee.

No reason why we shouldn't mention the despicable, especially when they so obviously are deserving of our scorn.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 07:58 PM

I found this story quite interesting, from the Chicago Tribune:

Aftermath of the earthquake: Shorter days


Published December 28, 2004


Incredibly, the magnitude 9.0 earthquake that struck off Sumatra on Sunday morning caused a vertical displacement of so much material that the rotation period of the Earth has been permanently altered. By a tiny but measurable amount, the Earth is now rotating more quickly on its axis, and the 24-hour day is now one ten-thousandth second shorter.That's the result of calculations based on preliminary data made by Oak Park astronomer Dr. Leslie M. Golden. It's analogous to the increase in rotational speed that a twirling ice skater experiences when he or she draws in their arms. It is estimated that during the Sumatran quake, a block of material roughly 600 miles in length and 100 miles in width fell 30 feet closer to the Earth's axis of rotation. The planet has responded by rotating more rapidly, albeit ever so slightly, and our 24-hour days are now one ten-thousandth second shorter.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Leadfingers
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 08:02 PM

The last Tsunami of any size in the Indian Ocean was (I Believe) in
1836 . It is hardly surprising that there was NO Tsunami early warning
system in place in the Indian Ocean as the last people who actually
experienced this died the best part of a hundred years ago .
An interesting side effect of this catastrophe is that there is wide
coverage on the American Media . A Terrible way to give so many Americans a Geography Lesson !

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 08:19 PM

Yes and no. India and Thailand both have plenty of money to install this sort of technology, for starters. It's a question of priorities.

To put this in perspective though, one need only look at some of the earthquake casualty statistics from the 20th century:

70,000 dead in the Messina, Italy quake of 7.2 magnitude Dec 28, 1908.

200,000 dead in the Ningxia-Kansu, China quake of 8.96 magnitude Dec 16, 1920.

143,000 dead in the Kanto, Japan quake of 7.9 magnitude Sept 1, 1923.

200,000 dead in the Tsinghai, China quake of 7.9 magnitude May 22, 1927.

32,700 dead in the Erzincan, Turkey quake of 7.8 magnitude Dec 26, 1939.

66,000 dead in the Peru quake of 7.9 magnitude May 31, 1970.

255,000 dead in the Tangshan, China quake of 7.5 magnitude July 27, 1976.

Certainly the last two I mention above are well within the memory of most Mudcatters. Which begs the question, why do remember the Alaska earthquake that killed 125 people instead, but not those above?

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 08:25 PM

Leadfingers, there was also a quake in Gujarat, India in 2001 that killed over 20,000 people. Earthquakes are actually very common in this part of the world, and there is no reasonable justification for why they don't have the technology, except their governments and the world development organizations haven't been fit and decent enough to install it. I certainly hope that is corrected now.

BTW, that Ningxia-Kansu, China quake was a 8.6 magnitude. Sorry for the spectacular typo!

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Once Famous
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 08:27 PM

I don't know.

You tell us why, you with all the answers and facts.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 08:39 PM

" why do remember the Alaska earthquake that killed 125 people instead, but not those above?"

because at the time, China was very insular and hated for news of disasters to get out. There very little information about how bad it was, even though we knew that it had occured....the Alaskan quake had movies and news almost instantly and was headlines in the more open press.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 08:43 PM

And the Peruvian quake?

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 09:16 PM

Robomatic,

it's 'Die perfekte Welle', one of the most successful songs of this year. 'The perfect wave' sems to be this summer's german youth language for 'extremely good'.

Helicopters of the Sri Lankan army (certainly not German army helicopters) are transporting tourists from a region that is inaccessible by land (street damaged by the tsunami) to a point from which they can travel on by car. One of these tourists was Kohl. The press, of course, mentions by name only the one who they think is known. Whether he was flown out first (2 days after the tsunami) or not I don't know.

I prefer politicians in disasters not to interfere with the local rescuing activities and to comment from a place further away.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 28 Dec 04 - 09:31 PM

Good heavens I wish some of you could step back and observe your own words in context. Here we have a natural catastrophe and human tragedy of staggering proportions, and even NOW we have so many who just MUST make a mudcat thread into "Americans are ignorant," "Americans are stupid," Americans are selfish," "Americans are greedy." (No, we don't watch news about the tragedy because it doesn't involve oil or textiles.)

I stumbled into mudcat just before 9/11, and I read a lot of insightful thoughts which helped me get my brain around that tragedy. That's what made me stick around and keep reading, but criminy, I'm beginning to understand where Martin Gibson is coming from. The incessant "Americans are" themes are SO tiring. They permeate and degrade almost any worthwhile reading.

My apologies for this interuption to those who are trying to focus on the subject at hand. Back to it.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 12:44 AM

I never suggested Kohl should interfere with rescue operations. I suggested he should have stayed, at least with the foreign tourists, and played the role of world respected public figure who could speak first hand about the disaster and the needs of the locals on the ground. Had he requested to be briefed by the local authorities so he could speak to the world about the relief and aid needed, I'm certain they would have shown that diplomatic courtesy to him.

And as to the supposed American bashing here, give me a fucking break. The majority of posters here are Americans. Who better to speak to our own weaknesses and flaws? Would you all prefer they just be swept under the rug and we all agree with the Martin Gibsons of the world that being assholes is a just fine way to be?

And hey--in case none of you have noticed, in my recent posts I have criticized the governments of the region, the world development organizations, a German politician...but for some reason heric only sees criticism of Americans? Looks like someone is very selective in their blindness to the truth.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Peace
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 01:11 AM

Irate Over 'Stingy' Remark, US Adds $20 Million to Disaster Aid

Google the above. Interesting article.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 01:11 AM

>>>only sees criticism of Americans? Looks like someone is very selective in their blindness to the truth. <<<

Can't figure out any part of that. But carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 01:21 AM

And it is no surprise the right wing media in the US has gone into anti-UN, anti-internationalist echo chamber overdrive, screaming about how the world is now blaming the US for the Asian tragedy, because a UN official said the initial relief package offered by the US, $15 million, was a reflection of the wealthy nations' stingy response to these sorts of disasters.

So it is no coincidence that we see the right wingers here in Mudcat echoing what they just heard on the Fox and MSNBC echo chambers' fashionably fascist talk shows. Sadly predictable, actually.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 01:34 AM

Of course, I didn't mention that the UN official was speaking of both the US and the European Union, who initially offered a whopping $4.1 million dollars to the relief efforts. Along with their own planes to rescue their own people. Considering the paltry amount of aid they are offering, it is damn generous they didn't insist the Sri Lankan authorities evacuate them at least, like Kohl did.

The aid response from the governments of Europe and the US to this tragedy has been pathetic. We should be deeply ashamed at the paltry amount the world's wealthiest nations, who have no compunctions about exploiting the region as their tourist paradise, have offered. There is simply no excuse for their being so closefisted and parsimonious about relief to the area.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: Peace
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 01:58 AM

FYI: From the article I mentioned above:

"Mr. Egeland responded to Mr. Powell's criticism by saying that he had been misunderstood and that he had not been referring to aid for the quake and tsunami victims but to the overall trend in recent years by Western countries in aiding the poor. He said pledges for the current crisis had been "most generous."

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 05:32 AM

WE don't know where massive disasters like this are going to hit, and we don't know what kind of disasters they are going to be. But we know there are going to be disasters, because that is part of the world we live in.

And than is why we need to have the infrastructure for responding in place, all the time, ready to move into action when it is needed. Instead we have a few largely paper organisations and committees, starved of resources. It's a bit like having a firefighting system that just relies on helpful neighbours with buckets.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: ard mhacha
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 06:07 AM

The response to this terrible tragedy by the the rest of the countries of the world is beyond belief, it is not often I would agree with The Daily Mail [UK] newspaper, but they sum it up perfectly by stating that Britain spends the same amount daily on Iraq than that which they have offered to the countries affected by this disaster.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: ard mhacha
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 08:31 AM

A few friends kindly contributed a sum of money which I have sent off to-day to the Red Cross, everyone I have talked to were more than willing to help out, the TV pictures are heart-rending.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: MBSLynne
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 08:32 AM

If I didn't have the responsibility of my children, I would offer myself to go there and help.....I feel quite frustrated at not being able to do more than donate an incredibly small amount of money.

Subject: RE: BS: earthquake, related tsunami bring death
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 10:03 AM

I had some friends go to Costa Rica after the hurricane to help out for two weeks. Most of us can't do that of course, what with jobs and families. My friends were both single, well off financially, and had vacation time available and took it.

Money is truly the best most of us this side the planet can offer, if we have it. Question is, who best to send the money to?I'd rather send money to the region directly, and not have it eaten up by administrative costs just to ship the money to Asia, if you catch my drift.