BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:29 PM

lets see,a little bit of country wisdom,if poppa dog an mommy dog got's raybies and puppy do to,put down mom an pop do not make pups prob go a way, sorry but true---life ain't fair, an never will be,
   wish i/we could change the way of the beast,we can't--can only keep tring. hagd

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:28 PM

By the way, jpk... nobody EVER gave in to the Palestinians. Not EVER. The Palestinians are the ONLY ones who have EVER made ANY concessions.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:20 PM

Spoiled brats of Palestine?

jpk, there is clearly quite a lot that you don't know about the situation in Israel and the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem.'

The first thing you probably don't know is that there have been several hundred Israelis killed since the beginning of the second intifada, while the number of Palestinians killed numbers in the several thousands (a very large number of them children). The Palestinians in these locations are under military occupation by the government of Israel, and they have no legal rights and no human rights whatever. Their lives are completely subject to the whims of the government of Israel and the Israeli Defense Forces.

The second thing you probably don't know is that as we speak, the Palestinians in these locations (as well as some other locations) are having their homes bulldozed right out from under them so that Israel can take all of the rest of the land that they (the Palestinians) and their ancestors have been living on and farming for more than a thousand years (with the possible exception of Gaza).

I condemn the killing of innocents on both sides. But to call the reactions of some Palestinians to these human rights violations and this outright theft and politicide by the government of Israel, "spoiled brats", is either one of the most profoundly ignorant things I've ever heard, or it is one of the most hateful and bigoted things I've ever heard.

I would be willing to bet you a lot of money, that if the government of Israel was doing to you what it is and has been doing to the Palestinians, you would defend your people and your land. Quite likely with the use of violence.

The only way to end the violence in Israel and the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem is to end the occupation of these locations by the government of Israel and let the Palestinians live their lives in freedom, in their own independent state.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 05:17 PM

ya know the other sad thing about this whole ordeal,is going to be the number of lawyers crawling out of the wood works looking to make a fast buck,plus the number of "book"deals that will pop up.    ps carolc,you want better insight into the moslim world,just ask the dutch.[i talked to a friend of mine(one of the few)in norway that i met in the late 70s while in the service,he told me that they are getting really feedup with "them"]. have a great day anyway

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 12 Jul 05 - 04:57 PM

dear carol c if not for the media,this would not even be a blip on the radar.the only way they can accomp.anything with these actions is with media help and there tend. to [blow]things way out of proportion.(more of there [if it bleeds it leads]reporting standards.   giving into the plo,and it's sister orgs sure accomp. a lot did it not[yep more violence]and to think clinton and those before him [bush sr included][yes and carter to] were proud of there placating actions to the spoiled brats of socalled palistine   i do feel for the victims,but must carry on.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 10:24 PM

Well, Carol C., from your last post I am happy that we are in agreement on some things. I just don't have the harsh vies of the US---except for the current administration---that you do.

I also agree with the other writer---things do not have to be in our image. See my first posting re: the article in the Op Ed in NY Times a few days back now relating to the Jeffersonian view on that subject.

That said, one must respond when one is threatened. I don't want to nit-pick definitions here---let us just call it self-defense. Please do not get into the Iraq business since that is a quagmire of our own doing---Afghanistan is not. Saudi Arabia should be.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Alba
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 08:57 PM

Þakka þú fyrir orðatiltæki hvaða þú did. Friður til þú og þinn Skarpi.
(I hope I have said this correctly)

Love and Light
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: skarpi
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 08:06 PM

H-alló all , i am -can´t sleep at the moment but where are we going ?
Why do we have this anger for each other and hate ?
Do they want something that we have ? Or do we seek to get something that they have ? Who are they ? Who are we ?what have we become?
a monsters??? or have we been that all this time ??

For many hundred years the humans have been killing each other ,the
vikings going around and killing , christian
killing jews, araps killing christian serbian killing islam people
in serbia and not far from us only few years back, what do we learn over theese years ?? Nothing nothing at all, yes there is one thing
that we learn and that is how make better weapons to kill and blow up people.

It´s coming into our back , What ever we do to these people they do it back.Do we seek for their Oil ?? I wonder ??

Maybe the Icelanders should start making their own energie the Hydrogen
and start selling it , then what will happen ??


When are we gonna learn from all this ???
Well i leave this .................   
to the special lists, there are enough of them out there .


Well what ever i was just wandering so just ignore everything I wrote

I believe that every person on earth have somthing good in their heart, I have learned that on short time on this earth and I will
do so..........in the future... with lots good thoughts
to all of you ,,,,,,,,
P.s I wrote alot of other stuff witch I wiped out ???
some things are better be off to be not written.

May god be with you All the best Skarpi Iceland

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 07:49 PM

Ok. I think I'm beginning to catch your drift a little bit.

In addition, I daresay, much has to do with poverty worldwide and the envy of a better standard of living in Western nations (not just U S).

Poverty is probably a big part of it. But the resentment doesn't come from envy. It comes from people wanting powerful countries like the US to stop exploiting their countries and stealing their resources, and killing their civilians in the process.

Yes I do enjoy the standard of living that is possible in the US. I live quite frugally by most US standards, but I am very blessed by world standards. I would like the less fortunate people in the world to be able to enjoy what I am able to enjoy. But this will never happen as long as the stronger and more powerful countries prey upon the weaker countries. And as long as the this continues to be the state of affairs, "terrorism" will never go away. It will only continue to increase.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: akenaton
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 07:23 PM

"Teflon Tony" Blair has again managed to make political capital from seeming disaster.
Today in parliament he attempted to justify his discredited stance on Iraq by using last weeks bombings.
He peddled his platitudes to a hushed House of Commons, maintaining that these bombings were proof that "We must hunt down the terrorists abroad to keep our people safe".

The only two MPs to speak against Blair, were George Galloway and to a lesser extent, Alex Salmon, the Scottish Nationalist leader.
What a bunch of sycophants and cowards, so afraid of media censure as to betray their principles, when they should have been spitting blood and calling for the heads of those who have brought the UK to this pass.

In my opinion it will be found that those bombings have been carried out by British citizens,and to a large extent,in response to UK support for the invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Those of us who voiced our protest to the Iraq war on these pages, cited the threat of terrorism as one of the main points against taking part and now another of our prophecies have come about.

Latest leaked documents suggest that both Britain and America are about to cut and run from Iraq, just as the Americans did from Vietnam, and the same endgame is in prospect for those who were forced by financial hardship to support the invaders....The butchers knife.

Maybe some day we'll learn to think again before attempting to export our economic and social systems to other cultures, to pave the way for future invasion and piracy...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 07:09 PM

Bill H. - Everyone wants a better standard of living but they do not, necessarily, want to become "Americans" to do that. Most people would rather preserve their culture their religion and their homeland and be given education and opportunity within the context of their own society.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:57 PM

And I still have no idea what your question was about, nor what point you are trying to make.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:54 PM

I notice you always resort to insulting me when the discussion doesn't go your way, Bill H. That's a sign of weak debating tactics.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:52 PM

jpk - "i know it sounds cold but it is sorta like a spoiled child looking for att.if they know they can get to you they will continualy carry on,if they learn that the only att it gets is there be slapped they will learn better..."

Doesn't work too well. The only thing the kid learns is to slap if you don't like something or that its O.K. to slap if you are in a power position. Trouble is - when they go to school and engage in attention seeking behaviours and the only limit is a slap, what does the teacher do? If you slap, they learn to slap.

Same thing applies to this war and all wars.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:48 PM

You really missed your calling---you should have been a negligence attorney and parsed words. Did you give Bill Clinton the great idea for asking for the definition of "is".

We could go into the horrors that abound in this world---ours (except Nam--and that had to do with the French) seem more defensive after WW2. In addition, I daresay, much has to do with poverty worldwide and the envy of a better standard of living in Western nations (not just U S).

Don't get me wrong--I think that this administration has mislead the world, us, and Tony Blair (for whatever reason he went along boggles the mind)---but in the bigger picture ---the historical one we do come off a bit better than you---who, by the way, seem to enjoy this way of life----would have us believe.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:44 PM

BTW, McGrath, you need to learn that the "terrorists" are whomever GW Bush says they are.   Any "terrorist" who hasn't yet committed a terrorist act is just a future terrorist who needs to be killed before he or she has a chance to do so.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:41 PM

If your definition of "terrorist" includes those, like the US government, who use state sponsored terrorism, then I don't understand your original question addressed to me, Bill H.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:35 PM

Thank you McGrath---"Terrorists" is what I meant---now that all my, and all our communal, cheeks are gone. If many of these co-religionists would truly step forward we would be moving in the right( I mean correct---"right" is not that clean a word now) direction---and that includes the evangalical crazies who are sure they are also right. Or as Dylan said--not that I am crazy about him---"--God On Their Side".

Bottom line is, as usual, people in power/control/oil/dollars. The fanatics on both sides don't realize that the power people really control things---our involvement in Iraq is a perfect example of that. The Karl Rove cover-up is another. He who leaks the news is their hero and she who defends freedom is in jail.

Bit of drift there=-=sorry.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:13 PM

we sure have not really killed many

Not killed too many terrorists, true enough - though with successful suicide bombers there is a practical problem involved. Co-religionists, we've killed an awful lot of them, even if we haven't been counting the bodies.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:10 PM

...and for every one we kill, we create a dozen more.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:10 PM

We certainly haven't been turning any cheeks, Bill H, and we've killed many, many more of them than they've killed of us.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 06:04 PM

So -Carol C. what is your suggestion---we sure have not really killed many and I do believe that we are running out of cheeks to turn---both on the top of the body and the bottom.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 05:44 PM

Columnnist Gary Young used a thought provoking analogy in his comment piece in today's Guardian:

To say that terrorists would have targeted us even if we hadn't gone into Iraq is a bit like a smoker justifying their habit by saying, "I could get run over crossing the street tomorrow." True, but the certain health risks of cigarettes are more akin to playing chicken on a four-lane highway. They have the effect of bringing that fatal, fateful day much closer than it might otherwise be.

And earlier in the same piece he draws an even more powerful parallel:

We know what took place. A group of people, with no regard for law, order or our way of life, came to our city and trashed it. With scant regard for human life or political consequences, employing violence as their sole instrument of persuasion, they slaughtered innocent people indiscriminately. They left us feeling unified in our pain and resolute in our convictions, effectively creating a community where one previously did not exist. With the killers probably still at large there is no civil liberty so vital that some would not surrender it in pursuit of them and no punishment too harsh that some might not sanction if we found them.

The trouble is there is nothing in the last paragraph that could not just as easily be said from Falluja as it could from London....

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 05:22 PM

Doesn't look like that method is working very well, jpk. Maybe it's time to try a new approach.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: jpk
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 05:07 PM

best way to deal with terorist is to ignore them except to kill them when the chance avails[i know it sounds cold but it is sorta like a spoiled child looking for att.if they know they can get to you they will continualy carry on,if they learn that the only att it gets is there be slapped they will learn better(maybe).

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 02:34 PM

I really do believe that 'religion' is a red herring. This, and other acts of 'terror' in Afghanistan, Iraq, Rwanda, Northern Ireland, Bosnia etc., etc. are really about power and profit - religion is just an excuse. Personally, I am 'praying'for our, overwhelmingly, innocent, Muslim brothers and sisters at the moment (although I am not convinced that there is a God to listen to my prayers!).
I certainly don't rule out conspiracy theories. The city in which I live suffered a 'terrorist' attack a few years back. The area that got zapped just happened to be a bit run down and a few developers got very rich re-building it - they never caught the terrorists - funny that !

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 12:19 PM

"The IRA was beaten not by British bullets but by courageous people in government gritting their teeth, negotiating with the scum ..."

So let's begin the negotiations with these Islamofacists, and in 150 years or so, maybe they'll stop killing us.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 10:30 AM

Interesting... he says there was an excercise at 9.30am and that this happened at the same time. He's 40 minutes late then, because the first explosion was at 8.50am and the BBC had the first report about 30 mins after that. In another post elsewhere, a teacher states that their class was due to set off at 9.30 to use the Underground but were turned back. This might throw light on the 'friend's husband' who was told to take their passport in to work on the Underground for identification though.....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 10:28 AM

Tracing the internet claim of al quada respondsibility of the London Bombs... It came from Maryland http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/alqmaryland.html

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Donuel
Date: 11 Jul 05 - 09:34 AM

I remind you that on 9-11 there was an air force anti terrorist training exercise that was occuring as the actual hijacked planes were in the air. The 9-11 commission found that this caused great confusion in supposedly being able to respond effectively since the "this is not a drill" announcement was 1 our and 45 minutes too late.

Well take a look at the coincidental circumstances in London.

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2005/090705bombingexercises.htm

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 06:08 PM

A thought re: Jed Marum's note about "...agreeing or disagreeing with Bush/Blair and Iraq".

It does seem that the Iraq invasion was long planned with cover-up reasons for so doing and not a retaliation for 9/11---that was Afghanistan.   Now the spin is that we are spreading "democracy".

The NY Times has a wonderful op-ed piece today regarding the "spreading of democracy"---Jefferson, it was stated, wanted it to spread but knew that one cannot force these things. One size does not fit all and we cannot create everyone in our allegedly wonderful image.   

That said, neither can the "jihadists" re-create everyone in their mold. That is the sad fact of human nature---everyone keeps trying instead of looking for a benefit for all humankind.

Someone made a comment to me recently with which I totally agree---Man created God and not the other way around===and so many have created their own version---and theirs is, of course always the correct version.

My own guess is that everything goes back to economics, power, and control ---keep it and do it in the name of the deity you have created.

"Democracy" has 9 letters---"power" only 5---and"oil" the shortest of all w/ 3.   Little by little I am sure the administration will get down to the shorter words about the war---they have always been better with short words. Frankly, this makes the Gulf of Tonkin incident seem like only a small little old fib.

A bit off topic about the London tragedy---but so much tragedy is being unleashed for all the wrong reasons---mother nature can cause enough with weather and such. Humankind surely does not need to help in the effort.


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 04:53 AM

The train bombs were, without exception, detonated when the trains were in the tunnels, and at least two when there were other trains passing, in order to cause the greatest amount of disruption. Initial reports suggested that the bus bomb might have been on its way to a tube station but either it detonated early or the bomber was delayed. The neighbourhoods affected are about 80% offices with probably 5% of actual residents, except Woburn Place where my friend George lives, it's probably about 60% offices and 40% very mixed residential. Racial distribution means nothing, the 'population' is wholly human.

Kings Cross is a major junction. An underground train going towards Kings Cross is, at that time of the morning, jam packed solid with people. Liverpool Street is also a major junction. That too, has a vast number of people going through it at that time of the morning. Aldgate is almost entirely offices but they are mostly financial establishments... imagine the chaos on the Stock Market if they were destroyed....! Again, it is a major junction and trains travelling through it are often packed. I cannot comment on Edgware Road as I don't travel through it very often. Woburn Place is a Square that has a higher proportion of residences, mainly flats and appartments above offices. Although the blast was enough to take the roof off the bus, it was sufficiently far enough away that there was little damage do buildings. George says his windows rattled but that was all. It seems that a lot of the blast impact was absorbed by the trees in the square.

The bombs detonated in an area where there IS NO PARTICULAR RACIAL OR RELIGIOUS PREDOMINENCE. They were detonated where there were people.

The initial question was 'why was Guilliano interviewed about London?' That question has been well and truly answered, neighbourhoods, races, colours and creeds were not mentioned.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 12:55 AM

I don't know about the neighbourhoods being predominantly Muslim, there are more offices than residences there, I think, as the locations are in the City centre; but certainly a number of Muslims live and travel through them. There is an Arab cafe at King's Cross for example, where some of the victims received first aid, and all the customers helped out. The racial/religious distribution among the victims is not known, but judging from the pictured of victims that I have seen there is a big representation not only of Muslims, but also Hindus and Buddhists, as well as Christians of various denominations. London has a very multicultural community, and this seems to be reflected amongst the victims.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 12:22 AM

Is it true that the bombings occurred in predominately Muslim neighborhoods?

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 09 Jul 05 - 12:00 AM

You're right El Greko. I just heard that there were still people unaccounted for. I would like to emphasize that I am horrified by what has happened. I was just thinking out loud which is not the best thing to do when people are grieving.

I think, however, that this thread (considering the original post) opened up the topic of terrorism in general. I don't think it was meant to be a memorial or part of the grieving process.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: LadyJean
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:49 PM

Osama Bin Laden
With Appologies to Leigh Hunt
(Readers under 45 won't get the joke. Readers over 45 already know the last line.)

Osama bin Laden May his tribe decrease
Came home one night from disturbing the peace.
And in his tent was amazed to see
An angel writing on a gold PC.
Great, said Osama, looking awed,
Are you listing the names of those who love God?
Nope, said the angel, this database
lists everyone who spits in God's face.
Good! said Osama, list away.
But you'll have to list the whole U.S.A.
With their Baywatch babes and their rock and roll
Theirs is a nation without any soul.
Said the angel, Osama, take a hint.
Consider as I save and print,
the things you do in Allah's name.
Osama was never quite the same.
For on that printout, as I'm sure you've guessed.
LO BIN LADEN'S NAME LED ALL THE REST*

*It goes without saying that Jerry Fallwell and Pat Robertson tied for second place.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:17 PM

I really don't think that this is the time for delving into the causes of the feelings that resulted in the bombings.

Not when there are bodies still trapped 20m underground at Kings Cross.
Not when there are still more than 70 people in hospital, several on the critical list.
Not when the forensic teams are still collecting information.
Not when the terrorists (and those that planned and funded the action) are yet to be conclusively identified.

At this stage, speculation or philosophising about what creates such terrorists may be fun to do, but it is not productive, and it diverts attention form the more immediate tasks - like helping people deal with grief/terror, or getting accurate information from the public to the investigators. Whether one takes Dianavan's view of things, or Hannam's, or for that matter any other view as to the causes, this is simply not the time. The time for that will come, and soon. Just not yet.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 10:16 PM

Google Iranian cleric:

"Has the British prime minister forgotten who Al-Qaeda's parents are?" Ayatollah Kashani asked thousands of worshippers after Friday prayers at Tehran University.

"It's the illegitimate child of America and Israel, but you name it Islam. This savagery is not Islam. It is coming from inside of you and it is now punching you,"

"You created all this to plague us, but now it is plaguing you. You have done that before, by equipping Saddam with weapons to fight us, but now you are bogged down in Iraq, he sad, referring to the U.S. support of Iraq's toppled leader Saddam Hussein during his 1980-1988 war with Iran.

"You have to learn from this and come to your senses," Sheikh Kashani said.

I am not in any way making excuses for those who think they can solve problems with violence. I am, however, questioning foreign policy that breeds terrorists.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:53 PM

Muslim clerics in Iran are saying that the terrorists are the illegitimate children of Western diplomacy and are not in any way Muslims.

I just did a news search and a Google search and could find no record of any Iranian cleric claiming that. DO YOU ACTUALLY MAKE THAT STUFF UP?

TERRORIST MURDERERS ARE ENEMIES OF THE HUMAN RACE. PEOPLE WHO MAKE EXCUSES FOR THEM ARE JUST AS BAD.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: dianavan
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:38 PM

Muslim clerics in Iran are saying that the terrorists are the illegitimate children of Western diplomacy and are not in any way Muslims.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 09:31 PM

It somehow doesn't fit that this was an act of Muslim fanatics.

Yeah, just because the Islamic terrorist group that bombed Madrid have claimed credit for bombing London is no reason to assume that this is a work of Islamic terrorists.

No way did the Islamic terrorists do it. Like Dianavan said, it was obviously a G8 conspiracy to shift the focus away from them having to do something about Africa. What better way for Tony Blair to act than bomb his own people and blame it on the Islamic terrorists who are so willing to step up and take the blame.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST,Ooh-Aah2
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 08:40 PM

People on this thread are correct when they say that violence begets terror, which begets more violence... etc. The IRA was beaten not by British bullets but by courageous people in government gritting their teeth, negotiating with the scum, and removing their spurious emotional excuses for blowing up little boys in supermarkets.

If there is a wave of anti-Muslim violence then the terrorists win. A Muslim man duffed up in the back streets of Bradford will become an instant 'martyr' and his fate be noised abroad in the Islamic loony faction to inspire more lethal attacks. By showing tolerance to the majority of Muslims among us who are not loony terrorists but decent people, we will create a critical mass of people who will slowly direct Islam away from the insane turn it has taken in recent years, and back to the position of comparitive tolerance it held in the Middle Ages, when it was Christians who were the main religious killers. This doesn't mean one has to like Islam - I detest it - but tolerance is not only the morally correct course but the best policy.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: CarolC
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 05:40 PM

It could even have been the BNP.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 05:25 PM

AS I said elsewhere... although a previously unknown group calling themselves the Secret Group of Al Qaeda of Jihad (or something like that) claimed they did it, there is no evidence as yet that these bombs were planted either by suicide bombers or by Muslims, or by Jews or by Nazis or by Christians.

Don't jump too soon.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 02:34 PM

Round up all Muslims

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: JedMarum
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 12:11 PM

Oooops - I mean ideologies

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: JedMarum
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 12:09 PM

No argument, McGrath. Terrible things have been done in the name of religious ideoligies. That is what we are facing now.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:54 AM

And you could match every one of those with quotes over the last two thousand years saying very much the same kind of thing, but claiming to speak in the name of Christianity. And with actions done to match.

And you could find people talking and acting like that day. Just stick a couple of terms like "Aryan" and "Christian" together on google and see the kind of thing that crawls out.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: JedMarum
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:50 AM

... also I'm sure that Blair, Bush and the other allies would argue that our countries' recent "War on Terror" actions (military, financial, diplomatic and intelligance) are indeed clear, well planned and purposeful actions.

You or I might argue with that ... and our countries may wish to modify the steps we've taken - but hopefully, these are the basis for those actions.

Subject: RE: BS: 'The Face of 911' in London?
From: JedMarum
Date: 08 Jul 05 - 11:41 AM

agreed Robbie - and others; vengence has absolutely NO place in the Western world's response to this terrorist act ... nor to 9/11 or any other.

clear, well planned and purposeful actions are needed.