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BS: LSD and psychotherapy
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Subject: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Mrrzy Date: 23 Feb 06 - 12:38 AM Anybody still doing it? Apparently it was amazingly successful, and from my experience, that would make sense... wonder if those of us who know we're gonan have to grow up someday, but just can't make ourselves do it yet, could benefit from being stripped down to our component parts, as they say in the Dept of Redundancy Dept, and rebuilt from the ground up, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Donuel Date: 23 Feb 06 - 01:24 AM Any wake up therapy can be good. Lately the only funded research on psychedelics are to make them non psychedelic like the African root that is effective in overcoming addictions but is psychotropic for up to 48 hours.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Pied Piper Date: 23 Feb 06 - 06:09 AM I once read about a study conducted with terminal cancer patients who were given LSD in controlled circumstances, the results were astounding. If I remember correctly 70% showed markedly reduced anxiety about dieing and 20% had total remission of pain!! PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: catspaw49 Date: 23 Feb 06 - 06:28 AM An interesting side note here is that just last month the U.S. Postal Service approved a new type of airmail stamp honoring Timothy Leary. Simply affix one to the envelope and the letter will fly there by itself. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: GUEST Date: 23 Feb 06 - 06:50 AM Yeah but it comes down with a bump 24 hours later. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Amos Date: 23 Feb 06 - 09:03 AM And people tend to eat the envelope.... A |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Alba Date: 23 Feb 06 - 09:37 AM ..and may experience flashbacks of the letter sending experience a few days later. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: GUEST Date: 23 Feb 06 - 09:50 AM And the letter thinks it's a gherkin. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: David C. Carter Date: 23 Feb 06 - 09:55 AM Bright Green, with a Purple Halo. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: freda underhill Date: 23 Feb 06 - 09:57 AM garnished with mushrooms.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: GUEST Date: 23 Feb 06 - 09:59 AM And the postman gets the munchies. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Bee-dubya-ell Date: 23 Feb 06 - 02:56 PM Ah yes! Reminds me of a few letters received from friends who had moved off to places like California and Colorado back in the '70s. The closing salutation was usually something like: Love, Steve and Nancy ETS! "ETS", of course, meant "Eat the stamp!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Mrrzy Date: 23 Feb 06 - 09:06 PM OK, back to the thread, you creeps... I have also read that LSD was extremely effective in reducing recidivism in convicts. Others? |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: frogprince Date: 23 Feb 06 - 09:18 PM Heard one third-hand rumor long ago that LSD was proving to be the only effective cure for homosexuality. (No, I'm not indicating that I believe it needs to be cured. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Bobert Date: 23 Feb 06 - 09:25 PM Well, I hate to break up the cyber-flashback so I won't... The year was 1969 and it was Lenny Lancaster's wedding out at this farm outside Richmonmd and, well, there were a couple rock bands, a hip preacher to do the duties and bunch of hippies and the brides family dressed up in their Sunday best... Well, Lenny had been "thought" to be like some kingpin in the distribution network and if you don't know what I mean here you have accidently opened the wrong thread... So, seein' as this was the scene everyone knew that the local narcotics guy would somehow be there... Actually, I was a little asurprised to see Sgt. Joe "Piggin" Higgins and his boys there but everything was real cool because unlike other hippie get togeters that weren't quite a big a deal, everything that had any mind alterin' capabilities was cooked into the food... Ever hear of "electric chili"??? Now don't anyone say that Richmond hippies weren't a friendly byunch so we just invited Sgt. Joe and the boys to join in the celebartion and, of course, to partake of the food which they did... Well, all I can say is the chili was dynomite and all of narcs had a big bowl and hmmmmmmm? I think somethin' done got them boys real messed up because they tried to leave and got their unmarked fuzzmobile off the driveway and down into a ditch... All I can remember is a tow truck coming to tow 'um home and bunch of narcs laughing and carryiin' on waitin' on that tow truck... True story... Chili, anyone??? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Alba Date: 23 Feb 06 - 09:50 PM LOL...sorry Mrrzy... I read, I think, something a long time ago about the Concord Prison experiment? which was a program introduced by Timothy Leary. The program involved psilocybin and psychotherapy and it's aim was to study if the use of psilocybin reduced recidivism rates. I haven't read or heard of anything about any new studies or programs however, but then I haven't thought about the subject for a long time. Interesting topic, even if it does bring out laughter and flashbacks:) Best of Wishes Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Amos Date: 23 Feb 06 - 11:40 PM I remember there was a problem associated with LSD, which may be one of the reasons it is not used as much as it once was. I forget who did the research but the problem was identified in the paper something along this wise: "If you send your attention out a long way, then you NOTICE it's a long way, why then, your attention isn't out a long way because it is noticing that it is a long way, but something must be a long way for it to notice. So there must be a kibnd of meeting-yourself-coming-back point between the long way and the place where you notice how long it is, from, if you see what I mean. So if that is the case, when you do that, like, how do you know who you are, ya know....?" Something like that, anyway. It's been a long time. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: JennyO Date: 24 Feb 06 - 12:58 AM I'll have what he's having :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Big Al Whittle Date: 24 Feb 06 - 01:42 AM acid on your brain tissue...can't really be good idea.. as I get older I really value my fragile hold on sobriety.. I don't want my mind altering by chemicals or revolutionary thoughts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Amos Date: 24 Feb 06 - 07:44 AM Drummer, ya shoulda thought of that before you started this lifetime; it's too late. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: freda underhill Date: 24 Feb 06 - 08:00 AM Lookee what happens to be in the paper today (sorry Bobert) MI6 pays out over secret LSD mind control tests; Rob Evans; Friday February 24, 2006; The Guardian The Secret Intelligence Service, MI6, has paid thousands of pounds in compensation to servicemen who were fed LSD without their consent in clandestine mind-control experiments in the 1950s. MI6 has agreed an out-of-court settlement with the men, who said they were duped into taking part in the experiments and had waited years to learn the truth. The men experienced vivid hallucinogenic trips when given the drugs. One recalled seeing distorted "Salvador Dali-style faces and cracks in people's faces". MI6 is also paying the cost of the men's lawsuit, which alleged assault. Don Webb, a former airman, said yesterday: "I feel vindicated; this has been a classic cover-up for years. They took a liberty." The LSD experiments were conducted in 1953 and 1954 by scientists working for MI6 who were trying to discover a "truth drug" to compel prisoners to confess. MI6, then led by Sir John Sinclair, was worried that the Russians had a secret drug to brainwash cold war enemies. The service had seen captured American servicemen confessing to "crimes" during the Korean war and calling for a US surrender. A Hungarian dissident had admitted to crimes he did not commit. MI6's counterparts at the CIA also did LSD experiments on men without their knowledge to try to control their minds. Both agencies finally concluded that LSD could not be used to manipulate people. One scientist involved in the trials wrote that the experiments were "stopped ... when it was reported that in a few people it might produce suicidal tendencies". The trials were described as "tentative and inadequately controlled" in one official document. Mr Webb said scientists gave him LSD at least twice in a week. He remembers a nightmarish experience when he hallucinated for a long time. He saw "walls melting, cracks appearing in people's faces ... eyes would run down cheeks, Salvador Dali-type faces ... a flower would turn into a slug". He said he had first made inquiries about the experiments in the 1960s but was "blanked by the government, which quoted the Official Secrets Act". He said he experienced flashbacks for 10 years after the experiments. Mr Gow said the scientists acted in an "irresponsible and sloppy" way and had not properly monitored him. "They treated us just like guinea pigs. They did not know what was going to happen." One morning, Mr Gow began to trip on LSD, seeing a radiator moving "like a squeezebox". He was still hallucinating when later he went dancing with his wellingtons on. Yesterday, he said: "I am glad they have finally admitted it." A Foreign Office spokeswoman, speaking for MI6, said last night: "Settlement offers were made to the government on behalf of the three claimants which, on legal advice ... the government thought it appropriate to accept." |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: freda underhill Date: 24 Feb 06 - 08:17 AM here is an article about the long and short term psychological effects of LSD use . |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: freda underhill Date: 24 Feb 06 - 08:24 AM very funny story, Bobert, those were the days! |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Alba Date: 24 Feb 06 - 08:28 AM Bloody Hell Freda talk about synchronicity. Seems Mudpower can throw thought waves out to the Media. Thank you for the Links. Far out..indeed!! Best Wishes Jude |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: freda underhill Date: 24 Feb 06 - 08:32 AM interesting, isn't it - the 100th psychadelic monkey syndrome.. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: autolycus Date: 24 Feb 06 - 06:47 PM Mrzzy, It's possible to real strip yourself down, as it were,as a path towards growing up and without using LSD. For further details, contact Ivor (in still freezing cold Norwich,Norfolk,) |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: GUEST Date: 24 Feb 06 - 11:22 PM Licsenced pharmathetical
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: GUEST,dianavan Date: 25 Feb 06 - 12:50 AM Freda - The green on the screen of that link was kinda sickening so I copied a part here, "Chronic effects of the drug can be positive and negative. Positive effects include spiritual contact and self-exploration; the most severe negative effect is known as LSD psychosis. LSD has shown to have therapeutic usefulness, although research has been severely limited for the last several decades. LSD psychosis has been linked to forms of schizophrenia, and thus, to some physiological disorders -- it appears to be dependent on the user, and not on the drug." I'd say that just about sums it up. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Cluin Date: 25 Feb 06 - 12:52 AM Read the works of one Stanislav Grof, PHD. And I recall George Harrison saying he had taken acid hundreds of times, but it never does you any more good (i.e. opening your mind) after the first time. Once is enough. All I know for sure is, if you drop acid, DON'T look in the mirror. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Donuel Date: 25 Feb 06 - 08:58 AM To visit your ancestors for a day try IBOGAINE....but cha gotta go to the Netherlands. This is the one I alluded to earlier as effective for compulsive addictions. If ya wanna visit little clown gnomes for 7 minutes try DMT. Easily available at your ornamental grass store. If ya wanna visit entities of a particular area try Brugsmania flower tea/wine. Easily available at tropical plant stores. Similar to Jimson weed's scopalamine however you will not be able to bring the experience back for examination or reflection. What happens there stays there. IF you need lasting answers to particular questions then Amazonian Cubensis is reliable. Easily and legally available by mail. If you are more inclined to enjoy unique electronic induced perceptions you could try a device I accidently invented that causes synthesisia. If you are not already a synthete, the effect will transfer senses into other senses, like turning sounds to color or colors to sound, or smells to bodily sensation etc. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Mrrzy Date: 25 Feb 06 - 08:55 PM Ivor? |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Mrrzy Date: 25 Feb 06 - 09:00 PM I'll check out that link, but what I'm looking for is the rate of success of its use in psychotherapy rather than its effect on the psyche... |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: GUEST Date: 25 Feb 06 - 11:22 PM No Complaints |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: GUEST Date: 25 Feb 06 - 11:46 PM Ayuhuasca is still legal. Get it while you can. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: autolycus Date: 26 Feb 06 - 02:16 PM Mrzzy, You called me? Ivor P.S. My first post came out to brief and thus unclear. I wanted to say that one can really strip oneself right down PSYCHOLOGICALLY without recourse to drugs. The therapy I do is the hard stuff, Gestalt. Hard stuff in the sense that practitioners of other therapies find our approach rather strong for their stomachs, tho' simultaneously, they are intrigued and usually want to know more. Doing my course (five years, since you ask) involved being in the client place a lot of the time, doing my therapeutic work (working on my own issues). It was often the most joyous thing I've ever experienced (I was in my 50s when I took the course), and often I brought right up to things I didn't want to know about. The difference netween me on the course, and a client in the world, is that I elected to see what was there, whereas a client doesn't have to do what they don't want to. Also Mrzzy, Gestalt Therapy doesn't 'do it' for you or 'to you', as your first post implied you might want. Finally, if you were my client, I'd say you don't 'have' to grow up. In Gestalt, the choosing is always in the hands of the client. And that is one of those questions hard to take in societies like those of the West, where people are positively encouraged to find someone or something else to blame When we blame, we are refusing to take OUR responsibility. That's not the same as THE responsibility. Nor the same as being the one at fault. Ivor |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: RichM Date: 27 Feb 06 - 01:09 PM Is the Universe on LSD? BillyGates will love this.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Blissfully Ignorant Date: 27 Feb 06 - 06:44 PM I think i remember something about acid being used to treat altzheimers (i know that's probably spelled wrong but you know what i'm trying to say:)) Or it may have been some kind of magic mushroom...same idea , anyway. Whatever you do, don't waste time or money on salvia... yes, it's legal, but it doesn't work and the smoke is really harsh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Mrrzy Date: 27 Feb 06 - 06:47 PM Ivor - I may not have to but it would sure help! And I know that therapies don't do for or to one, although that is what I'd like - that's why I'd like to find someone trained in doing it with acid. Way less effort. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Lonesome EJ Date: 27 Feb 06 - 10:06 PM I was watching Digging for History last Saturday. The host, a guy named Bernstein who affects an Indiana Jones fedora, likes to take a hands-on approach to his science. Bernstein likes to rappel down a sheer cliff face in Libya to study ancient cave-dwelling Christians. Bernstein hang-glides over Stonehenge to...well, get a better view of Stonehenge. Anyhow, B. was studying a Peruvian mountain culture dominated by priests who gave initiates blasts of psychedelic powder up their nostrils through hollow tubes. The initiates were then led down a staircase beneath which roaring water had been diverted, into a large amphitheater echoing these waters. They were then led into an underground tunnel, where Bernstein was told that they carried no candles or torches, which amazed both B. and me. They were then led to a tall totemistic stone carved and painted in day-glow colors illuminated by a shaft of light from above. Bernstein was fascinated by this, and in an attempt to get to the bottom of it, he took the mental equivalent of hang-gliding for a better view, by attending a service conducted by an Indian shaman. "First Maria drinks the juice, then her assistant Sancho, then the man who has been demon-possessed, then my host from UC Berkeley (what a shock) Bob Haney, then, at last, me." This really got my attention. While Maria is shaking pollen over the possessee and channeling the spirit world, Bernstein and Bob are commenting in these hushed tones... Bob : Spitting a spray of lime juice cleanses him. Then tobacco juice is emptied up the nostrils... Bernstein : AH..stimulating the mucous lining of the nose.. Bob : Exactly. And causing the acute discharge seen in the carved heads at Dzibil-shaltun. Meanwhile, the possessee is wobbling and glassy eyed, Maria is jibbering like a banshee, and Sancho has apparently wandered off in a stupor. Bernstein and Haney's eyes are full-pupiled and strange, but they keep making observations on what the others are doing. I'm thinking "my God, what firm grasp does cultural anthropology hold on these freaks to keep them endlessly inserting their inane footnotes? Someone make them stop!" They were exactly like the two guys sitting on the couch at the Acid Party making bets on who would knock over the incense burner first. Later, Bernstein has a heart-to-heart while gazing into the camera lens... "About four hours later, after returning to my room, I experienced the peak effect of the drug. I was..acutely sensitive. Lights seem to be surrounded by haloes." I'm thinking, that's it!? He continues "I had a thought, and, this seems silly, but I went into the bathroom, and in an attempt to simulate the underground tunnel, I turned off the lights, even stuffing a towel under the door to eliminate all available light. I then turned the shower on full blast, simulating the water rushing through the sacred temple. And then I understood : Despite the total darkness, I could see everything perfectly. The power of the drug enabled the initiates to navigate the total darkness of the temple tunnels." And so, inadvertantly, and for all the world to see on the History Channel, Bernstein made a ringing endorsement of the positive benefits of psychedelic drugs. I never experienced this super-power gift during any of my psychonaut voyages, but my guess is that Bernstein is out there somewhere tonight, flawlessly negotiating the cracked and broken pavements of some remote ruin, startling bats and other night creatures with his sudden stealthy appearance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Cluin Date: 27 Feb 06 - 10:12 PM And his designer stubble. It's an interesting program, mind you. I saw one he did on the lost tribe of Israel a couple months back that was good watching. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Donuel Date: 27 Feb 06 - 10:48 PM Seeing perfectly in complete darkness AND EYES CLOSED is a phenomenon I have had with much delight. The last time it happened was 10 years ago. No drug I know of is associated with this phenomenon. However seeing what another is seeing remotely is greatly enhanced with the use of telepathine - no joke - that is exactly what it was called and written on the label. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Amos Date: 28 Feb 06 - 01:56 AM Seeing with the eyes only, of course, is an addiction of a different sort, but equally worth breaking away from... |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Amos Date: 28 Feb 06 - 09:48 AM More on the interesting phenomena associated witn Telepathine, also known as Harmine. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 01 Mar 06 - 12:14 AM I don't believe is was pharmacuetical....but it was therapy.
..........A simple mind-numbing routine, and learning zen-like patience........ ..........................................................twenty loaves of sliced dark rye spread over every surface of a one-bedroom flat, (stove, floor, lights, beds, toilet tank, tub/shower............waiting and waiting 72 hours in the bay-fog atmospher that brewed steam from anchors........
And then.....meticulously, with chromium-tweezers, plucking the miraculous blue/green balls and placing them in test tubes.....where did the hours go?
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: michaelr Date: 01 Mar 06 - 12:49 AM ...so that's what happened to you... |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: autolycus Date: 02 Mar 06 - 05:46 AM Mrzzy, thank you. I appreciated your response. You want to do it with less effort, yes exactly. That's probably why the use of, e.g., LSD is sought. In my neck of the therapy woods, what makes the process an effort is our resistances to growing, including our fears. We all have thoses resistances and fears, in an infinity of combinations. My guess (and let me be the first to underline that it is a guess) is that until we approach, meet, stay with, look at, work with our fears and resistances, we won't get much further. And the world (I'm still surmising !!) will carry on for the next chunk much like in the last chunk. Bestest wishes (and no apologies for originally taking you at your word) Ivor |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Amos Date: 02 Mar 06 - 10:28 AM until we approach, meet, stay with, look at, work with our fears and resistances, we won't get much further Axiomatic, my dear Ivor!! :) One reason is that the opinions and resistance, maintained as wards against the feared or hated things in life, are exactly what keep one glued to them. Leaves ya stuck on the runway. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Donuel Date: 02 Mar 06 - 11:57 AM Amos My telepathine experience included being able to see an original but undiscovered Beethoven music manuscript with my eyes closed. But when I got a pencil to copy it down, as I would focus on which line or space a particular note was on - it would dissolve. I could not transcribe what looked competely real. In experiments with a person viewing a series of photos and another person in another room trying to pick up on what the viewer saw in each photo, the results were ~60% better than without telepathine. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: autolycus Date: 02 Mar 06 - 04:19 PM Amos, so pleased you agree - marvellous, 'axiomatic', exactly. And it's those fears and resistances that keep people from entering the process of self-becoming that therapy can be at its best. "Harry Stack Sullivan said each of us is a mere caricature of what he might be. I long to know what my true self will be when these distortions are gone.(Muriel Schiffman.) Ivor |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: goodbar Date: 02 Mar 06 - 08:41 PM i think they legalized in for shrinks in denmark or something. |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Mrrzy Date: 02 Mar 06 - 10:55 PM None needed, me dear! |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Cluin Date: 03 Mar 06 - 12:31 AM Reminds me of a guy I knew in University Res. who claimed to have a photographic memory. I can see the page, but words are too blurry to read. "Yeah, right", I told him. "It's probably because you wear glasses." His nickname was "Cement Head". |
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Subject: RE: BS: LSD and psychotherapy From: Mrrzy Date: 03 Mar 06 - 09:43 PM Right, less effort. I've been trying and just don't want to do the things I do more than I know I need to do them coupled with wanting do live up to my own conscience. I want to spend a day working really really hard on that and then go from there. After sleeping for another day, of course. Gotta consolidate that neural reworking. |
