What makes a clean song dirty

Subject: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Joybell
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 11:32 PM

I've always sung various versions of the songs in the "Died for Love" family. Some recent requests here prompted me to ask about something that has had me puzzled for years. When I performed in restaurants I often sang the song "The Maiden's Prayer" (not the usual song with that title - the one I've just put in.) It's very sililiar to "The Butcher's Boy". Almost always people began to snigger from the start. There's nothing rude or even really suggestive about the words. I could sing the same story in another version and no one thought it least bit funny. I did find "The Maiden's Prayer" (under another title) in a book of rugby songs, but that just adds to the confusion. All the other songs in this book are so rude that most of them have ****s all through them.
A lady once told me that she had the rude words to the song I'd just sung but when she whispered them to me THEY WERE THE SAME!
Why is this? Am I missing something? Always-the-last-to-know. Joy

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 11:47 PM

Some were born for inocence

Others to intuitive intonations of vulgarity

Your gene is deficent (be happy and rejoice)

Other's mind's work overtime and exude profane meanings.....when a cigar is only a good smoke.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Some future belly-screaming, lamp-shade creaming, orgasmic experience will push you over the Rubicon. Until then...... enjoy and releash your innocence!

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: mack/misophist
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 11:50 PM

More tersely, intent and perception.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 11:59 PM

It all depends on the audience that you are singing to. Some audiences have a lower threshold of tolerance for bawdy material, even if it is not sexually explicit. For example, Cliff Haslam's recording of "The German Clockwinder". Even though no 4 letter words are mentioned in the song, and everything is innuendo only, I could never sing it to an audience in my orthodox Jewish neighborhood. They would literally run me out of town. I remember once running a "kosher bus tour" to Montauk & Orient Pt., in Long Island. As part of the tour we put the group on the Orient Point to New London Ferry. On the return trip to Long Island, I hired Geoff Kauffman from Mystic Seaport to give a sea chantey concert on board the boat. Before he started, I instructed him that he could sing about anything except sex & Jesus. He turned to me and asked " If you eliminate those 2 categories, what else is left to sing about ?" SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: JennieG
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 12:38 AM

Sometimes it's not the words - it's the way they are sung. And sometimes I reckon that people are in a frame of mind to see smut where none is written or intended; for example, a group of friends out on the town, having had a few drinks, and in a very relaxed mood. It need only take one word to set them off.

Cheers
JennieG

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: pavane
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 02:47 AM

I remember seeing a guy sing 'The BOY from Ipanema'. Made it a totally different song just by this gender change (and the way he sang it, I suppose)

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Micca
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 03:20 AM

and of course, the "Rubber Ducky" song done as a Torch song at the Getaway...
But, To quote Tom Lehrer
" When correctly viewed, Everything is Lewd
I could tell you things about Peter Pan
and the Wizard of Oz, Theres a Dirty old Man!!"

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:06 AM

Could we have the words of the version referred to, so we can pick them over for innuendo or anything else.

Subject: Lyr Add: THE MAIDEN'S PRAYER
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:41 AM

FROM HER PREVIOUS THREAD

The Maiden's Prayer

A maiden young and fair was she
Who lived in high society
A soldier brave and bold was he
Who stole of her virginity

And when her apron strings hung low
He chased her through the ice and snow
And now her apron strings don't meet
He passes her by on the street

Her father returning late one night
He found her home without a light
He went straightway up to her room
And found her hanging in the gloom

(2 lines missing) He took his knife and he cut her down
And on her breast these words he found:
Oh Father, Father dig my grave
Place me beside a garden wall (sic)
And on my grave place a turtle-dove
To show this world I died for love.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:47 AM

If you are singing this to of Schubert's Ave Maria which was originally not based on Latin but taken from Sir Walter Scott's "Hymn to the Virgin" in The Lady of the Lake....I can understand the snickers.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: Lyr Add: A MAIDEN'S PRAYER (several versions)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 06:18 AM

Ran off to Randal's "Blow out the Candle" his reference to "Maiden's Prayer" is superficial, his other reference is towards a totally different style of song, like roll me over the clover.

Here are some others gleaned from the net:

MAIDEN'S PRAYER
Lyrics for Album: Red Headed Stranger - by Willie Nelson

Twilight falls, ev'nin' shadows find,
There 'neath the stars, a maiden, so fair, divine.
Lonely there she kneels, and tells the stars above
In her heart is a song, an' there it belongs:
Her undying song of love.
Ev'ry word reveals an empty broken heart
Broken by fate that held them so far apart.
Stars on high seem to know she's there.
In her heart is a song, an' there it belongs:
Her undying song of love.

* * *

http://www.animelyrics.com/anime/slayers/slotome.htm

(Anime) Slayers:
OTOME NO INORI (MAIDEN'S PRAYER)

koi ni koi suru onna no ko ni wa
mabushisugiru no MAI DAARIN
    To this small girl loving is
    wonderful, my darling

kirakira RUUJU (akogare DORIIMU)
PINKU no PIICHI
todoite hoshii no otome no inori
    A glistening rouge (a longful dream)
    a pink peach
    I want to reach for it - a maiden's prayer.

* yozora ni ukabu gin no kofune
  suki to kirai no namima ni yureru
  chiisana mune o kyunkyun kogashi
  kokoro wa tobu no anata no moto ni
    * I float to the night sky - the silver of this happiness
      I like to shake the waves of darkness
      my little heart is aching so profoundly
      let my heart leap into your origin

onegai todoite otome no negai
zembu agechau kirei na watashi
    I beg you, let me reach, it's this maiden's will
    It's all I am, this pretty me.

koi ni koi suru onna no ko ni wa
mabushisugiru no MAI DAARIN
    To this small girl loving is
    wonderful, my darling

kurakura KORON (yurameki DORIIMU)
mizuiro PARASORU
kanaete hoshii no otome no negai
    I'm giddy, that cologne (a beautiful dream)
    a light blue parasol
    I wish it would come true - it's this maiden's will

* Repeat
    * Repeat

onegai todoite otome no negai
nageta KISSU wa BUUMERAN
katamichi kippu no BUUMERAN
    I beg you, let me reach, it's this maiden's will
    the last kiss is a boomerang
    this boomerang is a ticket for a one way trip

zembu agechau kirei na watashi
shiroi PEGASASU ni omoi nosete
todoketai no
koi no JIGUSOO RASUTO PIISU
    It's all I am, this pretty me
    I feel like I'm on top of a white pegasus
    delivering the jigsaw of love's last piece

* * *

http://www.allcountry.de/Songbook/Texte_M/Maiden_s_Prayer/body_maiden_s_prayer.html

MAIDEN'S PRAYER

Twilight falls - Ev'ning shadows find
There 'neath the stars - A maiden so fair -divine
All alone I seem to see her there
In her eyes is a light shinning ever so bright
She whispered a silent prayer.

Ev'ry word revealed her empty broken heart
Broken by fate that holds them so far apart
Lonely there she kneels and tells the stars above
In her arms he belongs, in her heart is a song
An undying song of love.

* * *

http://www.hyperion-records.co.uk/notes/67379.html

Tekla Badarzewska (1834-1861)
THE MAIDEN'S PRAYER (1851)

Should we dismiss out of hand 'this dowdy product of ineptitude' (Arthur Loesser) that has become a comical byword for sentimental salon tosh? Most people do. It is now past parody, its title far better known than the music itself for no one plays it, not even the soppy amateurs whose territory it was and who so relished its 'dripping, maudlin arpeggios'. Few could tell you the name of its composer. But hold! Despite the fact that it has no catchy theme to sing or hum, that its octave arpeggios are not easy to execute correctly, and that its four 'variations' (if one can dignify them with that term) are devoid of musical interest, The Maiden's Prayer is probably the biggest selling piece of piano music ever written. Over 100 editions were published in the nineteenth century and in 1924, more than sixty years after its first appearance, a Melbourne music publisher admitted to selling 10,000 copies of it a year.

Its unique status notwithstanding, little is known of the short life of its Polish composer. Badarzewska wrote it when she was just seventeen and had it published in 1851 in Warsaw as Molitwa dziewicy ('The Maiden's Prayer'). It was republished as a supplement to the Paris Revue et Gazette Musicale in 1859 from whence it spread round the world like a plague. There are a further 34 piano pieces by Badarzewska, including one entitled Prayer Answered. Thankfully, it failed to capture the public's imagination.

An ungentlemanly German critic in his obituary of Badarzewska opined that '[her] early death saved the musical world from a veritable inundation of intolerable lachrimosity'. Far greater composers than Badarzewska have shone brightly and profitably around the world before descending into obscurity. For better or worse The Maiden's Prayer, if not the name of its composer, will never be forgotten. Quite an achievement for a teenage female Polish composer of the 1850s. Hard to dismiss in fact.

* * *

http://ourceline.s5.com/tast.html

Celest Dion
AVE MARIA

Ave Maria!
Maiden mild!
Oh, listen to a maiden's prayer
For thou can't hear amid the wild
This thou, this thou can't save amid, despair
We slumbers safely tear the Mother
Though we be man outcast relieved
Oh maiden, hear a maidens sorrow
Oh mother, hear a suppliant child
Ave Maria

Ave Maria, gracia plena
Maria, gracia plena
Maria, gracia plena
Ave, ave dominus
Dominus tecum

The murky cavern's air so heavy
Shall breath of balm if thou hast smiled
Oh Maiden, hear a maiden's pleading
Oh Mother, hear a suppliant child
Ave Maria
Ave Maria

* * *

http://www.lorenzhart.org/mindsng.htm
From Higher and Higher
Lyrics by Lorenz Hart, music by Richard Rodgers
Lyrics published on The Complete Lyrics of Lorenz Hart

I don't care if there's powder on my nose.
I don't care if my hairdo is in place.
I've lost the very meaning of repose.
I never put a mudpack on my face.
Oh, who'd have thought
That I'd walk in the daze now?
I never go to shows at night,
But just to matinees now.
I see the show
And home I go.

Once I laughed when I heard you saying
That I'd be playing solitaire,
Uneasy in my easy chair.
It never entered my mind.

Once you told me I was mistaken,
That I'd awaken with the sun
And order orange juice for one.
It never entered my mind.

You have what I lack myself
And now I even have to scratch my back myself.

Once you warned me that if you scorned me
I'd sing the maiden's prayer again
And wish that you where there again
To get into my hair again.
It never entered my mind.

* * *

The 1910 piano solo is available on-line:
http://parlorsongs.com/issues/2003-4/thismonth/featureb.asp

* * *

http://www.leoslyrics.com/listing/song/A/13/

From the album "Masters"
By the Everly Brothers

Twilight falls, evening shadows fly
There 'neath the stars a maiden so fair divine
Who on high seems to see her there?
In her eyes there's a light
Shinin' ever so bright
As she whispers a silent prayer

Lonely there she kneels and tells the stars above
In her arms he belongs, in her heart there's a song
An undying song of love

* * *

http://mail.speedlink.com.au/users/usnothem/library/livelyrics.html

MAIDEN'S PRAYER
Traditional

A father came home late one night, to find his house without a light.
He went upstairs into her room, and found her hanging in the gloom.

And on her breast was pinned a note, and these the very words she wrote,
"Oh Father, I can't face the shame, to bear this child without a name."

"And when my apron string hung low, he chased me through the ice and snow,
But now my apron strings don't meet, he passes by me in the street."

"Oh dig my grave and dig it deep and plant white roses at my feet,
Yes, plant white roses up above, to signify I died of love."

* * *

http://www.bluegrassmessengers.com/master/maidensprayer.html
Twilight falls, evening shadows find,
There 'neath the stars, a maiden so fair divine.
The moon on high, seemed to see her there,
In her eyes was a light, shining ever so bright,
As she whisper'd a silent prayer.

Ev'ry word revealed an empty broken heart;
Broken by fate that holds them so far apart.
Lonely there she kneels, and tells the stars above.
In her arms he belongs, then her prayer is a song,
Her unending song of love.

TNOTES: A Major. Standard. AB (Christeson), One part (Brody). A favorite tune of Texas swing fiddler Bob Will's father, fiddler John Wills, "who would get up early in the morning, around four A.M., and sit out in the front yard to the Wills farm as the dawn crept up off the plains, and play the melody to himself" (Charles Wolfe, The Devil's Box, June 1982, pg. 20). Florida fiddler Chubby Wise (1916-1996) earned a gold record for sales of his recording of the tune, while Wills' 1938 version became the third best-selling country music record for that year.

* * *

http://www.ostlyrics.com/read.php?sid=6761

Artist: Miles Davis

Once I laughed when I heard you saying
That I'd be playing solitaire
Uneasy in my easy chair
It never entered my mind.

And once you told me I was mistaken
That I'd awaken with the sun
And ordered orange juice for one.
It never entered my mind.

You had what I lack, myself
Now I even have to scratch my back myself.

Once you warned me that if you scorned me,
I'd say the maiden's prayer again
And wish that you were there again
To get into my hair again.
It never entered my mind.
It never entered my mind.

* * *

I appears there are dozens of different recordings and different lyrics for you Title - perhaps that is why they smirk?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Joybell
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 09:28 AM

Thanks Gargoyle, maybe you've got a point. Only thing is when I sing the song I don't tell the audience the title - unless I'm in a folk club - and then they don't snigger. Also I can sing similar songs without a smirk from them. And how did this song get to rub shoulders with truly rude songs in a rugby songbook? Joy

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Joybell
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 09:38 AM

I should add that I've only come across the title "The Maiden's Prayer" used for this song when it was collected in Australia. The title doesn't appear in the song. The English Rugby book I referred to calls it "A Miner Coming Home One Night". No it's not the title that makes them smirk. Joy

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 09:52 AM

I assume(not having heard this song sung in rugby context) that we have a simple Pavlov's dogs effect here. Apparently the song is often sung in these social circles. So if the general entertainment of the evening is good old Rugby smut, anything regularly included in the bill of fare will produce the same salivatory response. Especially as the word "virginity" is included in the song, which will be the key "bell-ringing" signal to the Rugby enthusiasts: aha, filth, let's all snigger. Remember, we are dealing with a group of people, of whom a significant proportion will have suffered from regular hard blows to the head over a long period of time. We can expect their herd behaviour to be a little on the dribbly side.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 10:12 AM

We no longer use the word "seamen" in any sea songs we sing to teenagers. "Sailors" generally works just as well and spares us their angst.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Joybell
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 06:20 PM

Yes Greg and Charley, I think that's probably it. I have thought that as well as having the word "virginity" in it this song is also about male conquest. Funny though, the compiler of the rugby songbook didn't seem to be short of songs that were much more explicit.
Charley spare a thought for someone whose ancestors gave me the family name - "Semmens". It's hard to explain, with a straight face, that I come from "sea men".

I suppose the reason for my posting this question is a carryover from childhood. From the time other kids made you say a word with a double meaning so that they could laugh at you. And you never knew how to avoid it, or what you'd said.
You learn how to avoid the problem but it still puzzles you.
                                       Joy

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Jen M
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 06:48 PM

when I read the lyric they sounded familiar--its basically "Careless Love". My father used to sing that at campfires--since 5 of his 6 children listening were girls I guess the song was supposed to be a warning>

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Joe_F
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 07:11 PM

Charley Noble:

Cf. that wonderful stanza in "The Rhyme of the Chivalrous Shark":

He dines upon seamen and skippers,
And tourists his hunger assuage,
And a fresh cabin boy will inspire him with joy
If he's past the maturity age.

I believe that that was written in all innocence.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Charley Noble
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 09:16 PM

Yes, Joe, for sanity sake I now sing " He dines upon SAILORS and skippers." I find it more gratifying to have the chuckles coming in the expected parts of the song.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Joybell
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 09:41 PM

Yes Jen M, "Careless Love" fits rather well into the same family of songs. The tune is quite similar to the one I'm talking about too. Of course as I've mentioned I can sing other songs from the same family - including "Careless Love" without getting the sniggering. "Tavern in the Town" has them all singing along but there's no "nudge, nudge, wink, wink!" from them.
Conversely I have been known to sing "The Blacksmith" with it's very obvious naughtyness and had people tell me it was a beautiful song. Nary a laugh from them either.
In Australia if you sing, "Why was he born so beautiful? Why was he born at all?" it has the audience falling on the floor. Never knew why. Joy

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: kendall
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 07:38 AM

My friend, Dave Mallett wrote a very nice song which I recorded. It's titled THE HAYING SONG, and of course, it's about the harvesting of hay. Some of the words are: you have to make hay while the sun shines
that's what all of the hill people say
just keep your load wide, keep your eye on the sky
and make sure it's dry when you put it away.

another part, it's when all men are strong and the work days are long
you know when to rise and you know when to rest...

and...6 loads in and 8 more to go..

Well, I was singing this once at a bluegrass festival out behind a stock shed, and there was a little bank. Down over the bank there was a young couple, and you could tell the way they were acting that they were quite fond of each other. Suddenly, that song took on a whole new meaning even though the words hadn't changed at all.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: GUEST,Sooz (bored at work)
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 08:43 AM

Smuttiness is in the ear of the beholder?

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 08:47 AM

exactly! I'm reminded of a duo I used to see and hear frequently that claimed to specialize in "clean songs for the dirty mind" - when you looked at the lyrics they WERE clean songs - but invariably they would get sniggers from the audience.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 10:16 AM

Another word to avoid around teenagers: "booty" meaning plunder.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 11:18 AM

It's the way you sing 'em !

Even without double intendre and inuendo, it is quite possible to change the meaning of a song by the way you sing it.

I was once in a production of "The Mikado" which demonstrated this. The lady playiny the part of Katisha although of the tall and slim build usually associated with the part did have quite a well-formed bust. The costume which she was supplied with, rather than hiding this, tended to accentuate it, giving her a rather spectacular cleavage. The actor playing Ko-Ko took advantage of this in the song in which he courts her (to prevent himself being beheaded). "Tit-Willow" was given a completely new meaning, and phrases such as "Plunged himself into" and "I feel just as sure" were delivered with rather different guestures than normal. Every night of the show, the audience were in helpless laughter at this rather unorthodox rendition of this normally rather sad song.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 13 - 06:02 PM

Did anyone hear, many years ago, Willy Rushton's version of Whistle a Happy Tune on I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue? He made it sound filthy by buzzing out certain words: Whenever I feel a (buzz), I hold my (buzz) erect, And whistle a happy tune, So no-one will suspect I'm a (buzz) etc.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 06:19 AM

Originally from I'm Sorry I'll Read That Again. The Rolf Harris Dirty Song book.

Two little boys had two little toys,
Each had a wooden
Gaily they played each summer's day
both of course
One little chap then had a mishap
Broke off his 's
Wept for his but cried with joy

[contd p94]

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: kendall
Date: 03 Apr 13 - 08:40 PM

W@e see and hear what we want to see and hear.
Why, hell, even Home on the range has a verse that could be suggestive if you mind is set that way. Of course, mine isn't.

..and the gentle white Swan goes gliding along, like a maid in a heavenly dream.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Bert
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 02:55 AM

Marie Lloyd.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 10:46 AM

the audience.

The first song I wrote was a very sad personal song, but because I am known as a joker, they saw all sorts of innuendo. And given my reputation, I couldn't fault them. But it did sit uneasy on me.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 02:16 PM

No-one so far has mentioned the phrase "he's (thinks he is) the answer to a maiden's prayer". Maiden looking for a good lay, fellow is good-looking/randy/thinks he is....
My explanation for the sniggers!

Sooz (30 Jun 04) summed it up!

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 04 Apr 13 - 04:03 PM

One little game we played back in the day was to take a word from a song and replace it with the same word in another language.
Don't remember many of these, but "I wonder who's kissing he nunc prompted a few sniggers.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Young Buchan
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 01:10 PM

Greg Stephens is essentially right that the problem is 'virginity' but I think it is a problem for the folk audience every bit as much as the Rugby Club audience.

I struggle to think of a SERIOUS folksong which contains the word 'viginity', (unless I've missed a very early carol to Jesus' mum)as opposed to simply 'virgin'. And even 'virgin' is not common. In serious songs it is maiden/hood/head, or something even more euphemistic or occlose.

I think folk audiences with any long experience know this intuitively and subconsciously. So when they hear the word they instinctively relax for what is surely somehow at some point going to turn out to be humourous.

Subject: RE: What makes a clean song dirty
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 02:06 PM

1st Sweet Young Thing:   "George has a really filthy mind!"

2nd Sweet Young Thing:   "Really? He always seemed like a nice person to me. What makes you think he has a filthy mind?"

1st Sweet Young Thing:   "Becaues he whistles dirty songs!"

Don Firth

Subject: What makes any song dirty?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 07:59 PM