BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 12 Apr 06 - 07:21 AM

>>>From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:32 AM

Just one example I found online (where there isn't much discussion of it--though it has come up on some other St Paddy's threads here at Mudcat):

American custom of wearing orange on Paddy's Day<<<

In some parts of the USA, it is still very common for Protestants to wear Orange on St. Patty's day to 'protest of the holiday' when what it seems they are really protesting is the continued presence of Irish Catholics or Catholics in general. I don't believe this is as common as it once was and it appears to be a regional thing and seems to be limited to the East Coast. I don't ever see it out here in California.

I grew up in and around New York City during the 1970s and this practise orf wearing orange was quite common in the public highschools, which often saw an influx of Catholic students in the 9th grade. Catholic High-school tuition was and is often beyond the means of working class Catholics. Many families will do their best to send their kids to Parochial School through the 8th grade but just can't cut it after that or, they send them to Public school to take advantage of Advanced Placement programs. Another reason is that transportation to the nearest Catholic Highscool is problematic or that enrollement spaces are not avilable. As a result, in some areas with lots of Italians or Irish families, there will be a substantial increase in Catholic students being enrolled in the 9th grade.

In the public High-School I attended, this sudden influx of Italian, Polish and Irish Catholic kids was met with various tactics to remind the Catholic kids they were on a lower societal rung. One tactic was the mass wearing of orange on St. Patricks day. Another was spitting at the foreheads of kids who went to Ash Wednsday services. I'm not sure that the effort to wear orange was Anti-Irish so much as it was Anti-Catholic. There were others related to Holy days of obligation and so on.

I'm not sure how common any of this is nowadays, but when I was in Highschool, none of the kids wearing orange deliberately were of Irish ancestry and it was not about pride in their Ulster heritage. It was intended as an offensive gesture. The Italian kids also got teased but I can't say specifically what things were done to them. The Polish Catholic kids were subjected to the usual "Pollock" jokes. And, these same kids threw pennies at Jewish kids and teachers and theym were quite cruel to Black kids. Ahh, High Schoo! "memories....like the corners of my mind..."

It's not all bad, my memories of having to integrate into Public school! There was one group of Protestant kids who belonged to a Church that derived from Quakerism. It was a stand-alone church I only remember as The 'Federated' Church. The "Federated" kids were quite nice and we enjoyed their company immensely - very open minded families and very welcoming to us Catholic kids. Members of their Church were often our Scouting leaders with many of them owning businesses in the are. Tthis was due to their being descended from people who first settled the area in the early 1700s. Wonderful people who didn't spit on ash wed or wear orange on St. Patty's day to taunt!

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:42 PM

Their war with the English.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:36 PM

Why the Irish, then? Why not the Italians, Germans and others in Europe? When my brother lived in Germany for three years, he saw children taking beer to school with them, for their lunches. What is about the Irish which brought about such a stereotype?

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:04 PM

About stereotypes...there was an article in an Irish American magazine about why these stereotypes are so strong and hard to erase...they seriously concluded that the stereotypes linger because many of them are just plain true. I read somewhere that Irish either drink probably to excess or don't drink at all....there might not be a good middle healthy ground...I think alcoholism is strongly related to the whole diabetes/metabolic/malnutrition syndromes and quite soon They will find the proper diet etc. for alcoholics (actually I think they have and it is a high protein, high vitamin one) and the problem will be greatly reduced. I was told all my life I was Irish (only half..the rest being Welsh, Cornish I am just finding out and Native American..all groups who don't fare well with alcohol) and I just couldn't drink. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 06:00 PM

While I wore orange on this day because my dad suggested it, there was never any rancour nor stereotyping of Irish in our home. I also wore green. My dad wasn't a religious man; in fact he blamed religion for a lot of the woes of the world, esp., as he put it, "the Holy Pappy in Rome." I don't remember it being quite so important to my siblings or mom, but Dad and I always made a point of celebrating this day AND wearing orange AND green. It was just a special day for us, celebrating the bit of Irish we had in our blood; nothing negative towards any Irish. I didn't even know enough about the "Troubles" to understand anything different until I was an adult.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 10:32 AM

Just one example I found online (where there isn't much discussion of it--though it has come up on some other St Paddy's threads here at Mudcat):

American custom of wearing orange on Paddy's Day

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: artbrooks
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 09:38 AM

That's a "custom" I've never encountered, GUEST, and I have lived in most parts of the US. Isn't 1/3 of the Irish flag orange?

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 08:31 AM

The problem has never been with the Irish when it comes to the negative stereotyping. The problem has been with the dominant Anglo American mainstream using "the drunk Irishman" stereotype as justification to discriminate against Irish immigrants.

There was good reason why there was a national outcry from Irish Americans when the newly elected Minnesota novelty governor, Jesse "The Body" Ventura, complained about St Paul streets (the Irish side of the river in the Twin Cities) being hard to navigate because they were built by drunk Irishmen, on Leno's show.

Old prejudices die hard, especially among all those American Protestants who insist upon wearing orange on St. Patrick's Day.

Odd no one seems to be interested in THAT St. Patrick's Day custom, isn't it.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: michaelr
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 02:43 AM

wld, some food for thought:

Uisce baugh, which gave us the word whiskey, means Water of Life. So does the French eau de vie. There's got to be a reason for that.

And I think it is this: Our world's greatest artists (and I'm lumping writers, painters and musicians together here) have always achieved their peaks by altering their minds -- with whichever substances were available to them. And it would be a dull and boring world indeed if no such substances were around.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Mar 06 - 01:34 AM

Just thinking about this.

Hope you all had a good 17th by the way

The point surely is that booze does occupy a rather unique place in Irish culture. Think of Finnegan's Wake - a drop of the stuff falls on Tim and it revives him, and as such it is interpreted as the life force - and becomes the basis for Joyce's great work.

Also the great Viking story tellers - the tradition of which is at the heart of Ulysses - pissheads to a man! Check out the chapter in Stuart Gilbert's critique of Ulyssess if you don't believe me.

Don't throw out the baby with the bathwater - the myths, the legends, the legendary drinkers, the stuff they got up to, the stuff they achieved - an enormous seminal strand in your culture.

Mines a green beer....

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 10:21 AM

Azizi,

Just to put it into perspective:

Rather than thinking of them as a nation of alcoholics, it might be more accurate to say that the relaxed Irish attitue about beer parallels the relaxed attitude the French have about wine.

Ex: A book on brehon law I owned once -- the brehons, or lawgivers, working in conjunction with the bárds (poet-historians) and the druids (priests), are what kept the culture of ancient Irish civilization going -- contains some interesting laws that were once in effect on the island.

One prescribes the "legal" amount that responsible people of various professions (doctors, priests) are allowed to drink with a meal, so it won't interfere with their work.

IIRC, the respective limits were six and eight glasses of beer. :o Which, unless you're drinking from egg-cups, is enough to knock most people I know flat!

And while it's true that the pub-scene's a huge part of Irish culture, one could make a good argument that the draw of the pub is only partially the drink, and more what they call the craic -- i.e., shooting the breeze, palling around and generally being sociable.

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 09:14 AM

No offence was taken to your joke, Purple Foxx.

And I took no offence to artbrooks' post either.

But in regards to his comment "Lighten-up, people" let me say that, thanks to the sun, I'm lighter in the winter than I am in the summer.

;0}}

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 08:18 AM

No offence was intended by my joke Azizi.
It is centred on the fact that in the accent of Belfast the phrase "Pure ale" & the word "Puerile" are pronounced identically.
I do however fully accept that "All x do y" thinking is at best unhelpful & at worst socially divisive.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: artbrooks
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 08:14 AM

Well, herself and I went out last night to celebrate a friend's upcoming nuptuals (it was also our anniversary). She and her fiance' are both from the (US) midwest and are mostly of German ancestry. Both wore green. Many of those present were of mostly or entirely Spanish-speaking ancestry...and all wore green, many with pseudo-Irish sayings on their shirts (such as "you don't have to be Irish to be lucky"). Jenn (who is mixed Russian-Jewish and Scots-English) and I (and I'm mostly mixed German, French, English and Irish, with a lot of unknowns) wore green. Drinking was moderate (it was a bar, after all) and none of the beer was green.

St. Patrick's Day in the US has long since become a day to just have fun. I've never lived in a place that had a very large Irish population, so I am probably missing some of the nuances of the celebration there (like excluding gay people from the march in NYC), but most of us really don't think of it as a day to bash the "real" Irish or celebrate Irishness (is that a word?) to the exclusion of everyone else. With all possible respect to friend Azizi, most of us also don't see it as an occasion to pointedly avoid wearing green to emphasize our non-Irishness. And yeah, most of the places I lived while growing up observed the "pinch if you're not wearing green" tradition.

Lighten-up, people.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 07:20 AM

I forgot to add that anytime I re-post comments from Mudcat,
I include a link back to that Mudcat thread.

In doing so I hope to encourage Cocojams readers to visit and to join Mudcat. On at least one occassion this has resulted in one person taking the plunge and joining Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 07:15 AM

Also, as full disclosure, let me mention that in the interest of sharing multicultural information & commentary, I re-posted some of my comments on this thread on this page from my website:

http://www.cocojams.com/celebrations_and_holidays.htm

Also, with his prior permission, I re-posted two comments from this discussion that were written by another Mudcat member. A comment from this thread that was written by a Guest was also re-posted on that same Cocojams page. This was done in accordance with my agreement with Joe Offer for use of Mudcat posts from Guests {non-members}and Members in my writing projects.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 06:41 AM

Sorry for the poor sentence construction of my last post. I'd like to rewrite one sentence so that it reads better and better expresses what I was trying to say:

Somehow, since family members and other people are often negatively affected by individuals who drink hard liquor, I would hope that people recognize this stereotyping and are cautious about even social drinking and driving and taking one's aggressions out on others because their inhibitions are lowered as a result of that drinking.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 06:36 AM

I am probably an outsider, since I don't know if I have any Irish ancestry, but as a person who is familiar with being stereotyped, I want to say that it seems to me that this Irish=heavy alcoholic drinking seems like stereotyping to me.

I am also disturbed that it appears from this thread and others [particularly around St. Patrick's day' that alcoholic drinking=manliness and/or heavy drinking/gettingy drunk [on St. Patrick's Day or otherwise] is a positive.

As I said, I don't know if I have any Irish ancestors or not, but I think this is a people thing, not an Irish thing. And as a person whose twin sister died of alcholism, and as a person who rarely drinks alcoholic beverages because I probably inherited the gene for alcoholism, this "rah rah I'mma get drunk" talk [on St. Patrick's day or otherwise] doesn't sit well with me.

Somehow, since other people are often negatively affected family members and other individuals who drink hard liquor, I would hope that people recognize this stereotyping and are cautious about even social drinking {and driving and taking one's aggressions out on others etc etc etc].

It seems to me that it must be difficult to be an Irish person who has acknowledged that he or she is an alcoholic.

I pray that any alcoholic got through this most difficult of days without relapsing.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Purple Foxx
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 02:21 AM

A young man from Belfast visited London for the first time & had his first ever Pint of London Beer.
They asked him what he thought of it.
He said it was "pure ale."
They thanked him for the compliment.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,mr grouchy
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 01:25 AM

Re: pinching. Started hearing about this stupidity about ten years ago in northern Alberta. Just another brainless excuse for bullies to bully, under the guise of "it's all in good fun". Did I mention I'm a schoolteacher?

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: LadyJean
Date: 18 Mar 06 - 12:56 AM

My all time favorite newspaper cartoon was published in the Post-Gazette many years ago. A police officer has brought two shamrock wearing drunks into the station, and he's telling the sergeant, "Sean O'Casey and W.B. Yeats here for writing *@$# %!Iran on a squad car in green paint."

My family is almost entirely Irish___Protestant. I have some Catholics on mother's side. But Mom was Presbyterian and Dad was Methodist. He was also a staunch Republican, a bourbon drinker (shudder!) and Irish of the Irish. He told me about Finn McCool, and Leprechauns, and Parnell and why boycotts are boycotts, and he's the reason why I have a cat named Grace O'Malley. (She went to the pet blessing at Sacred Heart Church, so she's an Irish Catolic.)

When I was in grade school, I always had a green ribbon in my hair on March 17. Which is howcome I started getting preferential treatment from the gym teacher, Mr. Sullivan. Which, as I am a fainter, was an excellent thing.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:34 PM

(Well, gol danged, Bobert... Heck of a food fight here today... And you weren't even in it???)

Well, goldanged!!! Here I've had company fir the last two days and couldn't exactly say, "Ahhhh, excuise me while I go get embrolied in a bunch of mud slinging and sterotypin'"....

Ummmmmm, now the P-Vine is like about between 50% Irish and a 150% Irish and so I live this St Patty's Day 365 a year 'cept, hey, why anyone would wait until just one day a year to have a few beers seems a little laim to me... I drink year 'round like the big boys..
It's a man thing that ain't got one danged thing to do with nuthin'... Men don't need no excuse to drenk!!!

But nevermind drenking and fightin' and carryin' on... Lets talk laundry here!!!

Yeah, why is it that Irish women can't hang a blue and a black sock together on the clothes line eith the same clothes pin??? Yeah, fir all you Irish authorities, answer me that one... Hey, if you do hang a black sock and a blue sock together with a single clothes pin will they not dry???

I mean, lets get real here on this siantliest of sainty days and get to the bottom of something that matters other than why folks drenk... Hey, look around you at this messed up world we are all collectively creating... That's why we drenk and it ain't just Irish folks either...

But, danged, why this obsession of clothes line etiquite... Okay, I have noticed that the Mennonites 'round here also are afflicted with the sock mixin' thing... But they don't frenk so fir anu of you Irish authorities, expalin that one....

O'Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 07:02 PM

I had never in my life until today heard you were supposed to substitute St. Patrick's Day for another day. That is new and not good. It should be a day off period. They said something on TV about it.

This is now a sad day for me...it used to be great. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,Will Power
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 07:00 PM

Really Bad Irish Jokes for St. Patrick's Day



Paddy O'Reilly told his wife he didn't want to be confined to bed, fed with liquids and connected to machines. So his wife threw out his armchair and TV , and poured all his beer down the sink.


Did you hear that Genetic Engineers developed a Seven-leaf Shamrock? The only problem seems to be you get a week's bad luck for picking it.


Drunken O'Hara went into a Chinese restaurant and ordered corned beef and cabbage. They brought him green beer and a fortune Cookie which said "The Universe Changes- So Must You!"


Freddie' O'Hanlon woke up on Saint Patrick's Day dressed and found himself so jaundiced his skin had turned a bright orange. "Bejeezus!" he said, and went to his doctor. The Doctor told him his must immediately quit drinking immediately but when he got the bill the orange quickly changed to bright red.


Kelly the drunk goes into a bar and announced he has a magical frog. "You've gone bonkers," say the patrons. "Watch this!" says Kelly, and he takes the frog out of his pocket. The frog starts singing like Pavarotti "Big deal," says the barman. "You're using an amplifier!" The barman takes the frog and throws it into the sink. It disappears down the drain. A couple of years later Kelly comes back and says "I have three magical frogs!" But when the barman tries to grab the frogs and dump them they hop off in different directions and start singing in three-part harmony. But they only know one song, and the barman looks at Kelly and says "I can't stand that. I'll give you free beer for a year if you shut them up.!" So Kelly whistles and the three frogs hop back into his pocket. Kelly looks at the barman and says "Next time, throw the frog in the microwave!"



Tommy Toohey got drunk one afternoon and stumbled into a Temple, where the elders were discussing the Torah. He saw the bearded men looking into a scroll and ran out swearing off the sauce forever "Jesus, Joseph and Mary," said Toohey, "I never dreamed my sins were that numerous!That was one hell of a long list!"


A Boston bartender accidentally put a permanent green dye into the beer. All his patrons turned green. "Don't worry!. said a patron. "It'll wear off before the Celtics are out of the playoffs!"


An Irish Priest thought it was time he learned to use the internet. So he was surfing along and came to a rather risqué website. He was interested and repelled at the same time. The Monsignor came in and asked "Doing a bit of research?" The Priest said "Better the Devil you know than the Devil you don't!


McNamara the Priest went into the Confessional, when a well-know politician came in and said "Bless me , father, it's been twenty years since my last confession" "Don't worry!" said the Priest "The Lord will lighten your load!" So then the Politician started listing all the sleazy deals he had made in the last twenty years. It went on for hours. "You needn't go into so much detail!" said the Priest. "But I must get everything off my chest!", said the Politician. Finally the Priest said" That's enough! Your sins are forgiven. Say five Hail Maries and sin no more!"

'But that's impossible!" said the Politician. "It's my nature to lie, cheat, and steal" Just as the exhausted Priest was leaving the Church he heard the squeal of brakes and a dull thud. The Priest ran over to see the Politician standing over a dead homeless man. "Thank God!" said the politician. That could have been me". "Hope springs eternal" said the Priest.


A Leprechaun was out for a walk one day when he found himself scooped up in a lepidopterist's net. "Give me three wishes!" said the Butterfly man "And no tricks!" So the Leprechaun starting listing the rules. "Three wishes only. No duplication. The third wish can't be for three more wishes There are no returns and no exchanges" But the Leprechaun was startled when the butterfly man suddenly turned him loose. "You don't even want one wish"" said the startled elf. "Too much fine print!" said the Butterfly man. So the Leprechaun turned him into a toad.

A couple of Irish-American Politicians were visiting Ireland and were comparing backgrounds. "My Great-grandfather was so poor they had to eat rotten potatoes and sleep seven to a bed." "That's nothing!" said the second Politician." My family was so poor they pretended they were English!"



On Saint Patrick's Day a child accidentally went to school with an Orange shirt and green socks. He got pinched by every kid in school and went home to change clothes. "Why did you let me wear those clothes?" he complained bitterly. "What's the matter? said his mother. "Are they teasing you about the turban again?"



An Irish tout was pleading with his customer to put all his money on a horse called "Pride of Ireland". But the savvy customer referred to the racing form and said "That nag has finished last in every race' "But this time the horse can't lose" said the tout "it's a one-horse race!"



Paddy bought a parrot and took it home. The parrot would sing "When Irish Eyes are Smiling" and "Danny Boy" incessantly. The wife complained, and said "Teach that stupid bird something new!" But no matter ho hard he tried, the bird only would sing those two songs. But one night the constable brought the drunken husband home nearly unconscious and the bird broke out in "God save the Queen!"





A farmer went out one day to milk the cow. He was shocked when the milk came out green. He yelled at his wife "The milk's green again" "What do you expect when you feed it nothing but shamrocks!"



An Irishman named Reilly applied to be a London Bobby. He was shocked when he was actually hired. They put him to work in Cheapside, where his chief job was pulling Irish drunks out of the dustbins. One day he pulled a drunk out of an alley and the drunk saw his nametag. "Say, you wouldn't be a Reilly from Donegal?"

"That would be my mother's family" said the amused copper.

"Would you believe I made love to a re-haired wench there one day?" "No, I wouldn't!, said the copper. 'She had a mole on her chest" The astonished bobby dropped the drunk in the street.

"That would be me mum," he said. "Did she wear a crucifix?"

"Yes, and I kept it for a souvenir!" and the drunk pulled the keepsake from his pocket!

"You might be my father" said the astonished copper. "I'll have to let you go!"

But instead of hugging him, the drunk hauls off and punches the cop in the nose! 'That's it" said the cop. "Now I'm going to have to take you in!"

"Why'd you punch me?" asked the cop.

"No wanker son of mine would ever work for the Brits!" said the drunk.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: katlaughing
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 05:14 PM

Azizi, pinching has always been a tradition in the Rocky Mountain West, too. I caught myself, today, even, thinking I'd better get out my green, even though my dad always had us wear orange on this day. He did allow a bit of green just to keep us from getting pinched!

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,Antaine
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 04:52 PM

"Next, how do you know St Patrick wasn't an Anglo?"

because the only 'anglos' were the Angles, who were still living along the German/Danish border at the time. It wasn't until they mingled with the Saxons (and were subsequently invaded by the Normans) that anything suitable to be called 'English' had emerged as a culture. When dealing with an island that has changed hands culturally, simply using the current name is horribly inaccurate.

As for Lent, most bishops (as have been noted) give dispensation. Simply replace your meatless Friday with another one during the week or do another form of penance in its stead.

And lastly, is fearr Gaeilge bhriste ná Béarla cliste, cinnte. Is an fuil croí teangacha cainteoirí nua. 'S ea, mhaise, tá "Gaelic" (eg Gaeilge na hAlban) ag fáil bás, ach ní bhéidh Gaeilge na hÉireann marbh am ar bith gan mhoill...

Beannachtaí Lá Fhéile Phádraig daoibh, a chairde...

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: gnu
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 03:57 PM

"...even if it falls on a Friday you can eat meat."

"Yer a trout, yer not a steak... yer a trout, yer not a steak...."

Ah, ya gotta be Irish Cat'lic... or have gone to a Tommy Maken concert.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: gnomad
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 03:50 PM

Someone way up there was asking about "Why corned beef?" Ireland was a source of some of the finest beef cattle for a long time before refrigeration was around. A major export trade in (largely corned) beef was carried on, especially in the Cork area.

Later the emmigrant vessels from England often made a final European call in Cobh to collect the last possible supplies for a trans-Atlantic passage, including both fresh and preserved beef. I would therefore speculate that the association of these supplies with "the Old Country" may have led to the corned beef feast of today. Incidentally I have heard that the hinterland to the supply ports still has a cuisine which makes great use of offal, these being the cow parts which could not be preserved for export.

Don't know if that helps any. I'm away out now, I just hope that the English drunks who have become Irish for the night have adopted the habit of non-agression along with a taste for stout.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 03:22 PM

Supposedly. But adults who were raised on it, will still do it with a surprising amount of enthusiasm.

Ex: Just had a phone convo this morning with a friend who is dating a native Scotswoman. She apparantly hit the ceiling when she got her first pinch; no one saw fit to warn her (poor lady.)

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 03:13 PM

Thanks for that explanation. I suppose this is just a kids' thing, right?

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 03:06 PM

Azizi,

Yeah, it's an American thing. Probably regional; it wasn't practiced where I grew up either.

One explanation (there's more than one, I'm sure!) was that according to Celtic legend, the more mischievous types of faeries would repeatedly pinch humans who displeased them in any way. So by failing to wear green, you're somehow offending the little people.

One of the other rules of the game, is that if you get over-zealous and pinch someone who actually IS wearing green -- like some small or hidden article of clothing, socks or a hair ornament -- you get penalized.

This can mean getting gang-pinched in return (yipe.)

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 03:00 PM

Absolutely. Forwarned is fordressed. Kids love St. Patrick's Day. When I grew up it was the one day of the year we were not encouraged to be miserable about something. The one day of the year to just have fun and not worry about purgatory and suffering souls and Lent etc. In fact, whatever you give up for Lent you can do on St. Patrick's Day and even if it falls on a Friday you can eat meat. If your archbishop has not given you permission for this, he should have so I would seriously consider doing it anyway but that is up to you of course. If you don't have an archbishop, don't worry about this in the first place. So just have fun today whatever your persuasion. Don't let people make fun of you for celebrating..there are spoilsports everywhere and they are not in charge. mg

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 02:45 PM

Speaking of school children, is anyone familiar with this custom?

Today an age forty somethingish African American woman in my office had on a green sweater. She saw me with my black pants & gray sweater on and said "It's St. Patrick's day and you don't have on any green?! Watch out or you'll get a pinch."

When she saw that I didn't have a clue what she was talking about, she explained to me that when she was in school in Houston, Texas, kids who didn't wear anything green on St. Patrick day would be pinched on their arm by other kids througout the whole school day. One thing those kids would do to avoid getting pinched was to go get a leaf from a tree and pin it on their shirt or blouse so they wouldn't be pinched. I guess then they could pinch other children who didn't have on anything green. But she didn't say that. BTW, her school was all Black.

After I heard about this, I did an informal survey of other folks {both Black and non-Black} in my work place. No one else had ever heard of that custom. Maybe it's a Southern USA thing.

Anybody else heard of kids pinching other kids who don't wear green for St. Patrick's day?

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 02:31 PM

Thank you, Peace. ;)

Granted, I'd accept it even if you said it sucked; at least you and Bobert -- that I know of -- not only HEARD the material before pasing judgement, but actively produce your own recorded music.

Looking forward to this work-day ending,

~F

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Peace
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 02:06 PM

Fionn is a damned good singer, fine writer and excellent musician.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 01:51 PM

JOo Offer said it best.

Shut up already and talk about something nice.

GreenBeer is very good so I'm off to get one....

Happy St Patty's day :0)

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:31 PM

Once again, dude: the word you were scratching for earlier is "thóin".

Tee haitch, oh-fada, eye en.

Which is exactly what you're behaving like.

Slink back under your bridge, troll. Save your monkey-chatter for whatever passing billygoats might give a flying damn.

(Citing a children's book, in hopes you might actually recognize a literary reference that's at your reading-level),

~Fionn

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:20 PM

..Slán,

~Fionn"


And good riddance to you, Irish Language mangler, Irish nation shaming turd, Irish people slandering unmusician poser. One who had no life at all before a therapist showed you 'Mudcat'. Fake, fraud, coward and eeejit of the day, March 17th 2006.


Famous Irish musicians

M Coleman ( AngloIrish )
M Russell ( Ditto )
J Morrison ( Ditto )
T Peoples ( Ditto )

( Windposer isn't on any list that I know of but there again we sometimes need a clown to laugh at )

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:42 AM

99 is the new 100.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Alba
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:40 AM

Shock and Awe, B or just awe?:)

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Peace
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 10:28 AM

Ma'am. I am in awe.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Windsinger
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 07:59 AM

My brain works fine, you trollish waste of flesh (and bandwidth).

And as for ignorance, anyone who makes a butt-ignorant statement like "Patrick was English" in a public forum, when the English as a people didn't yet exist (the A-S's may have, but if they tried to get a toehold on the island while the Romans were in control they'd have gotten their asses kicked across the North Sea) deserves to be called out for their apparant inability to crack the spine on a single fucking history book.

Sorry that you lack the opposable thumbs to do so, but you there you are.

"Bad grammar?' Just to refresh your memory, here is a verbatim paste of the wankish poseur-shite you posted: Pog mo ? agus Slan which is a phrase every teenaged Irish-wannabe who doesn't ACTUALLY speak Gaelic has begun parroting (or trying to) when they think it'll make it sound like they do.

Ergo, I'm unimpressed.

(The word you apparantly couldn't think of was thóin, BTW.)

Go the fvck off and boil yer head

Wrong again, O Simian Knuckle-Dragging Wonder. It was "shut your mouth and go fuck your own ass."

Which I suggest you do, and leave this thread in peace. You dropped the collective IQ of it just by walking through the door and contaminating the common air.

Slán,

~Fionn

www.geocities.com/children_of_lir

---

Settle down, please. Windsinger and Sorefingers are both guilty of personal attacks in this thread.
If you'll recall, we don't allow personal attacks. As I used to tell my kids - "I don't care who started it - just STOP IT!!!"
Thank you.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 01:36 AM

"Dún do bheal, agus feisigh do thóin féin" op[wiekl;amna.,dsmal'kdfa ..yeah right

Gibberish to most people who see this page. The reason for that is Gaelic is a dying language, but to me its just realy bad Irish and the person that wrote it an eegit. If a gobshite can be insulted - unlikely in this case through lack of brains - I would do it but what's the use of beating an already dead bore?

Instead I'll say for you in English what you failed to say in Gaelic.

Go the fvck off and boil yer head until yer brain begins to work. Meanwhile, shut the fvck up and don't be abusing an old dying language with yor ignorance and bad grammer.

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 01:18 AM

Jude - so it would be John Mc Bride's great grandson then who is a black activitst in South Africa I guess. He's quite lightskinned. I've seen interviews with him where he talks about his Irish Ancestry.

I assume I learned all this at my Grandfather's knee who was born in Mayo.

Yes, Apple Dumplings for everyone who comes by!

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Alba
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:30 AM

Dave's Wife you definetly have the name right.
I only know a little about John Mc Bride and even less about his Son but here's the little I know of.
John MacBride came from Westport Co. Mayo and at some point he emmigrated to South Africa were he organised the Irish Transvaal Brigade. The Brigade were Irish and Irish-American miners living in the Transvaal who joined with the Boers to fight the British.
He eventually returned to Ireland.
He was an Irish Republican who was executed in Kilmainham Jail by the British for his role in the 1916 Easter Rising.

His son Seán was very active in Irish Politics and won the 1974 Nobel Peace Prize.
(I think he was a founder/member of Amnesty International?)
In fact time to dig out some more information on this topic.
Thank you for bringing it to my attention again.

Now about those dumplings you make..lol
I want some Apple dumplings too..I mean if Azizi, my astrological Sister, can have some then can't I?...:)

Hi Azizi sounds like your Daughter has a great Day planned for the Children.
Love and Warmest Wishes as always Sis
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Mar 06 - 12:03 AM

Thanks Dave's wife!

I'm aware of a number of African Americans who have Irish ancestry, and I have read of the historical & cultural traditions linking Irish Americans and African Americans. For example, I've read that tap dancing is a result of the blending of the dance styles of these two cultures.

However, I wasn't aware of that there are South African Black people who have some Irish ancestry as a result of their ancestors fighting in the Boer wars. I guess-as per South Africa's traditions re: racial classification, these people consider themselves to be "Coloured'. [?]

Dave's wife, I very much appreciate your invitation to visit your home and sample your dessert.

God willing, I'll be able to take you up on your offer sometime in the not too distant future.

Best wishes!

Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Dave'sWife
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 11:22 PM

Azizi - laugh about the Black Irish but let me tell you something you may not have known:

A number of Irishmen left Ireland and went to fight the English in South Africa during the Beor war. The idea being, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Some stayed and married African women. One of the fellows imprisoned during Apratheid, last name of McBride, is descended from one of those fellows. I think his name is John McBRide and his great grandfather was Willie Mcbride. I could be wrong on the n ames, but not on the circumstances.

It is very common to find African-Americans of Irish descent in The United States due to the fact that Freedmen and irishmen often worked at the same jobs and were social equals. I have a few friends in my congregation who have Irish Great grandfathers (from ireland) who were "white" and yet, they self-identify as African American due to skin color.

Of course, that's not what anyone means when they refer to "Black irish" but I thought I'd toss it in for your amusement.

If you are ever in los Angeles Azizi, come to my house and I'll make you Apple Dumplings!

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 11:18 PM

BTW, my daughter is a first grade teacher at a public school that has 99.9% African American students. I asked her if she plans to wear green tomorrow, and she said yes. On this day, as on all others, the students in the school wear [non-green] school uniforms.

Usually my daughter goes to work early on St. Patrick's Day or the school day before St. Patrick's Day. She decorates her classroon with shamrocks, and sprinkles green powderly sparkles in a trail on the floor and on the children's desks.

Then she leaves a warm greeting on the blackboard from Mr or Ms Leprachaun {alternating genders in different years}. Her students then write a reply to the leprachaun as their writing assignment for that day. Needless to say, the children have written some creative, and often funny examples.

I'm going to share this thread with my daughter so that she can also tell "her children" about the background of St. Patrick's Day.

Thanks again for the info!

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 11:09 PM

Interesting thread-not only did I learn someting about St. Patrick, and the history behind that celebration, but I also learned Dave's wife recipe for Apple Dumplings!

As an African American with no known Irish ancestry, I make sure I don't wear green on St. Patrick's Day. Too many unfunny comments about being "Black Irish".

However, I sincerely say to all who celebrate this holiday,
Happy St Patrick's Day!

Subject: RE: BS: Being Irish on St. Patrick's Day
From: Peace
Date: 16 Mar 06 - 09:08 PM

THANK YOU very much. I will try that.