BS: English To English Dictionary

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 19 Mar 05 - 08:12 AM

I grew up familiar with "rubber baby buggy bumpers" too – in the Detroit area. However, the person I remember hearing it from was my dad – a New York City boy – so I don't truly know how well known it was/wasn't in SouthEastern Michigan, but I have a feeling it was...

As for stonker vs stonkered, I checked with my (English) hubby, who says that there's no "stonkered" over here, but "stonker" means huge – which could explain Ron Davies' suggested meaning (a guy could have a "stonker"), although hubby says he's not heard it used that way over here. He says its origins are military; a "stonk" was a brief, concentrated artillery attack. For example, a battery (4 guns) would suddenly fire 3 rounds each (for a total of a dozen shells), all at the same target, then stop.

I did some Googling, & found the wwftd dictionary, which has the following entries:

stonk
    a heavy concentration of military fire
    loosed a ~ on them and wiped them off the face of the earth
stonker
    [Austral] 1) to hit hard: knock unconcious
    2) to baffle completely: outwit, foil
stonking
    [Brit] 1) impressively large 2) an intensifier
    a ~ good time

Another word I found confusing when I moved here was "revise" – as in "Did you spend a lot of time revising for that exam?" (For the Brits amongst you, in the US we'd use "review" there; "revise" is used only in the sense of correcting something, or making minor changes.)

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Mar 05 - 12:40 AM

oh, we used "baby buggy" in my family! My brother had a baby buggy (high, with springs and collapsable cover looked very much like this)...I remember it well when I was about 5-6..I never thought much about it till I heard 'carriage' in later years and it dawned on me that 'buggy' was not the most common usage. You adopt local cant and vernacular and sometimes it's hard to change.

(couch? divan? settee? sofa? davenport? and more..)

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Layah
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 09:08 PM

I've also heard "rubber baby buggy bumpers" but never anyone who actually called them buggys. As far as I know in California buggys don't exist and all babies are put in strollers. In London strollers were called push chairs. I have heard that in the UK buggys are called prams (short for perambulator?) but I haven't actually heard the word used. Although I haven't seen people in California use them, I would be likely to call them baby carriages.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 08:59 PM

actually, I dredged up 'stonkered' from a distant memory of a conversation in an old Heinlein novel.."Sixth Column", where the hero is trying to come up with a code to communicate with someone so that his Asian captors won't get it... "The chopstick laddies are stonkered and discombomulated" I had no idea whether Heinlein made it up. I sure hope the rest of 'em ain't part of someone's real slang!

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 08:58 PM

Hello Dave!

I've heard that tongue-twister: "Rubber baby buggy bumpers" in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania too! I think it's still being said by some kids...

BTW, in my hometown of Atlantic City, New Jersey, we didn't use the term "buggy" for a baby carriage..we called it by it's 'real' name- "baby carriage". LOL!!

But the "carriage" was for the infant or smaller baby to lay down in..when the baby was bigger and able to sit up, they would 'graduate' to a "stroller".

But it seems to me that baby carriages are being phased out for strollers..I don't see that many carriages around here. But of course, we got a lot of steep hills in Pittsburgh, and I know from experience that pushing a carriage up hill is no joke..

"Umbrella strollers" are more recent inventions [say 20 or so ago??]. This type of stroller is more lightweight [read flimsy]. It folds like an umbrella hence the name}. Because of that capability, umbrella strollers can be used to push a baby/toddler to the bus stop. It then can be folded when the bus comes and unfolded when the adult {usually female} and child get off at their destination.

Are there other names for 'strollers' around the English speaking world?

And BTW, have you noticed the different ways that men and women push strollers??

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Snuffy
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 08:36 PM

Ron

Apparently you could be stonkered in Australia , but I've never heard it as a verb in UK.

Here's one UK stonker and here are several more

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Frank Maher
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 06:36 PM

In Newfoundland,We have Our Own English!!!!

    http://www.heritage.nf.ca/dictionary/d8ction.html

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 04:43 PM

Azizi asked:

And is "buggy" {baby carriage} US Southern English too?

Southern Minnesota, where I grew up 55 to 60 or 65 years ago.

We used to have a tongue-twister: Rubber baby buggy bumpers.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 04:21 PM

Amos:

'drugged' being the past perfect form of "a drag"? You might have been joking but that's the best explanation I've ever heard for "drugged" being used that way.

:O)

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: GUEST,Amos
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 12:02 PM

I expect it is the past perfect verbal form of encountering something that is a "drag", meaning a downer, bummer, bad trip, and so on.

Everyone knows the verb "drag" has the past perfect "drug" right?

A

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: GUEST,Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 10:15 AM

Go Jerry!!

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 09:23 AM

Azizi!

Go Pirates!

And now that I think about it, "dasn't" is clearly a contraction of dast not. Sounds Shakespearian to me.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Azizi
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 08:40 AM

GUEST,Arnie,

Would you provide a translation please?

****

When I first moved to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania* I heard several Black people say that they were 'drugged' and I thought to myself "There must be alot of drug addicts in this city [true LOL]
but actually they were using in to mean annoyed or upset or "pissed off"..for example: "I'm drugged that our team lost last night".

Does anyone know if "drugged" is used this way in any othehr place? area use this word this way?

*For those unfamiliar with the home of the Steelers football team and the Pirates baseball team, Pittsburgh, PA is about a 6 hour drive from the probably better known Philadelphia, PA; and Pittsburgh is about a 5 hour drive away from New York City..]

Since it once had a deservedly bad reputation as a dirty city because of the steel mills, "yunzt" may be surprised at how beautiful Pittsburgh is now...

We've "cleaned up our act!!"

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Ron Davies
Date: 18 Mar 05 - 06:47 AM

Bill--

From what I hear, you as a guy could have a "stonker" but not be "stonkered"--and stonkered would definitely not be hungry.   Can any of our UK members confirm any use of this word, that Bill, I think, believes he just made up.? Or is it restricted to the English source I hear every day? (appears to be one of her favorite words)--maybe she made it up.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: GLoux
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 04:37 PM

I was visiting the UK a few years ago, woke up one morning, turned on the radio and heard that "the gritting lorries were out"...my imagination went wild, trying to figure out what was meant...OMIGOD, should I stay behind a locked door until they're "put back in"???

the salt trucks were out because it had snowed overnight...

-Greg

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: GUEST,Arnie
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 04:08 PM

Does this count as English? I learnt it as a kid in Yorkshire....

I were bahn dahn us ginnel
As t'pictures were loosin'
It were black as t'coil oil and mucky as t'tip
When I saw t'rag and boon man
All brussen wi' boozin'
'Twelting t'osses ower t'ead wi'a whip!

Arnie

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: GUEST,neovo
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 11:33 AM

The phrase "keep your neb out" is quite common in Yorkshire, meaning keep your nose out - mind your own business. I also recall the "while/while" urban myths. The one I remember was about not lighting a boiler while there was water in it. BANG!

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 09:08 AM

Hey, Azizi:

My Father used to say dasn't, and it did mean dare not. I'm not sure where he got his words, but his Father and Mother were born and grew up in Denmark, so it does make sense that it would be Germanic. He also called our frying pan a spider. Now, "skillet" is old enough as a term in itself, but "spider?" It wasn't until I studied colonial life as an adult that I found out where the term came from. A spider is a skillet with feet (not 8, however.) They were used for frying food over the embers in a fireplace. Who says there isn't reincarnation?

My sons always liked the wisconsin term "couple three." And then of course, there are all the localisms that wouldn't make sense to someone in another state. When my Father wanted to describe a place that was far away, he's say it was "from here to Hanover." Or maybe even Barbury Cross.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 09:04 AM

YY - I think traffic lights came in in the 1930s, but that story dates from the 1960s when gates at railway crossings were being replaced by raising barriers and flashing lights. The sign at the crossing read "Do not cross while red lights are flashing"

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 07:05 AM

Back to "5 to 6"...

In Yorkshire, they use "while" the way most others use "until" (or "till"). Example: "The shop's open from 9 while 5."

There's a joke I've heard concerning the introduction of traffic lights to Yorkshire (which wasn't exactly recent, so I'm assuming it's an oldish joke); because this was a new thing, the lights were accompanied by signs with instructions: "Stop here while the light is red." So of course the Yorkshireman concerned stops & waits through the green & yellow lights, and continues on his way when the light turns red...

Another expression that took some getting used to for me was "stopping" (meaning "staying"). Example: About 5 pm, a work mate asked me "Are ye stoppin'?" I was planning to stop working in a couple of minutes, so I said "Yes." He took that to mean that I would be staying & working late...

Yet another rich source of misunderstanding is the word "dinner". Of course, that varies from region to region in the US as well as in the UK. I have read about a public speaker (in the UK) who ended up double-booked because he had accepted "lunch" and "dinner" engagements – which both turned out to refer to the mid-day meal...

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: GUEST,Auggie
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 12:21 AM

Azizi

I always took dasn't to mean dare not.

If you live near 70 and 80 year old ethnic Germans, you'll hear it quite often.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: GUEST,Auggie
Date: 17 Mar 05 - 12:16 AM

Jerry-

My favorite Wisconsinism came at a department store when I asked for help from a clerk who was, unbeknownst to me, taking her lunch break.

"I'd like to help you," said she, "but I'm on my off."

(Second place goes to a golf partner who, after hitting his drive on a short par 3 pin high but into the sand trap on the left remarked,
"Damn, I got the right up but the wrong over.")

Worst part is, I knew right away what both of them meant.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 10:44 PM

"dasn't" ??

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 10:41 PM

Have to add that almost every "southern" phrase mentioned above is equally common to Wisconsin. At least southern Wisconsin.

You dasn't limit it to the South.

Jerry

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 10:19 PM

Pogo, here's a couple more English & Southern English that I've heard
      used {though since I'm not from the South & have no Southern
      relatives, this is second hand information}


tote- I had to tote that heavy box all the up them stairs. {carry}

Fixin -I'm fixin to {I'm getting ready to cook a mess of greens}

"mess" meaning "a lot of"

And is "buggy" {baby carriage} US Southern English too?

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Pogo
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 09:41 PM

LOL...don't even get started on English and Southern English...


Mash the button (pushing the button)

If I had my druthers (meaning something like If I had a choice about it)

Riled up (meaning angry)

Yonder (meaning a direction...Over there yonder apiece...or Ovah yondah with the accent)

Betwixt (between)

Ill (meaning grumpy...She gets me so ill sometimes)

Sugar or Shugah (Kisses...Give Gramma some sugar, honey)

Arsh potaters (Irish potatoes...what my grandaddy always called them anyways)

Butter Beans (Lima beans)

Warshin' powders (Laundry detergent)

Drawers (Underwear)

Drank (Any beverage...I'd like a drank of Coker Coler, honey)

I reckon (I suppose)

heheh...and one of my favorite expressions...as much chance as a kerosene cat in hell with gasoline drawers on...

hooowee...

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 07:47 PM

Amos, what song are you quoting?

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Amos
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 07:14 PM

Conkalene,
Honey, is that you?
Oh, Conkalene!
Honey, is that you?
You stir-frying my brains, girl
The way you allus useter do....


A

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Azizi
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 04:43 PM

I guess being 'nebby' as used by African Americans in Pittsburgh area does mean sticking your nose in other people's business.

As to 'conk', Clarence Major's dictionary on Black American slang "Juba to Jive" has this entry for 'conk':
"{n} 1930-1950s; pomade for the hair; a hairstyle; the human head itself; brains or intelligence. in general white use during the same time period, this term refered mostly to the human head or the face or nose, and to the act of hitting someone on the head."

Majors also has an entry for 'conk-buster', 'conk-busting': [n;adj],{19302-1950s} anything proving mentally difficult, also sometimes referred to what drugs or liquor did to the mind; from the forties into the fifites, cheap whiskey or wine. Example: "That cat comes up with some conk-busting questions."

end of quote

Well the brand name "Conkalene" had to come from some where..I guess it fits with the 'conk' having to do with the head.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 01:43 PM

A conk is a type of fungus that grows straight out of a tree trunk and looks like ... a nose.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Layah
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 11:53 AM

Purse in UK is what I would call a wallet. Just happens to be a big wallet, but I call them all wallets.

I also miswrote, I don't say 5 till 6 I actually say 5 to 6. Which could in the right context also mean starting from 5 and going to 6, but if someone says "what time is it?" the answer "five to six" makes sense.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Torctgyd
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 11:16 AM

Layah,

Thanks for you reply. Half 11 is definitely 11.30 but to me 5 till 6 means you'll be doing something from 5 to 6 o'clock. I though saying 5 of 6 meant five minutes past 6 (or is it 5 minutes to 6?)

Diverging from the time, I remember when I was about 9 my mum's cousin, who is married to a US Airman, was staying and she asked me to get her purse from the living room. As you can imagine she wasn't very happy a minute or so later when she came to find out why I'd been taking so long to see me rummaging around her handbag looking for a purse. She quickly forgave me when she realised the language gap. (Purse (US)= Handbag (UK), Purse (UK)= Pocketbook(?)(US))

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Les from Hull
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 10:30 AM

Neb for nose is common usage round here (Hull in Yorkshire, England). To have a 'neb round' is to have an quick inquisitive visit, as in looking round a shop or pub without buying anything.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Layah
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 10:12 AM

I am American and I say both could care less and couldn't care less. I never understood the could, because you're right, it doesn't make any sense that way. Someone once suggested to me that perhaps if you say I could care less you're being sarcastic, but I don't think so. My theory is that it comes from I couldn't care less, which got turned into a set phrase, so people stopped breaking it down to understand the meaning, and as long as no one is looking at the literal meaning, could and couldn't actually sound very similar and it could easily get changed from one to the other.

I'd never thought before about saying 5 of 6 for time. Don't know what the of is doing there, but I would probably personally say 5 till 6. What really confused me was when I first heard British people saying half eleven, and I couldn't decide if that was going to mean 10:30 or 11:30. I think someone told me that in German half eleven would mean 10:30, or maybe it's Russian...But in British it means 11:30

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Torctgyd
Date: 16 Mar 05 - 07:14 AM

One thing that puzzles me (apart from saying the time is 10 of 6??) is why Americans use the phrase 'I could care less' when the British equivalent seems so much more sensible. 'I couldn't care less'. If you could care less then by definition you care to a greater or lesser extent whereas if I couldn't care less then it doesn't mean anything to me at all. Is the American expression shortened from something you'd hear on Friends? 'Like, I could care less?'

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Azizi
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 11:18 PM

As to the word 'conk'.

Once upon a time there was a product in the United States that was called "Conkalene'. Conkalene was
a lye based grease used to straighten African American men's [and women's hair.

So a Black person who had a 'conk' had their hair straightened with Conkalene [I might be spelling it wrong.I'm not sure}.

Spike Lee's Malcolm X movie has a great scene based on the book on Malcolm X before he became a Muslim 'conking' his hair ['conking' meaning using Conkalene]. And to protect your conk at night you might wear a do-rag {a rag/scarf to protect your hair do {the hair that was 'done'??} Of course most people just used the foot of nylon stockings as a covering for their hair, putting this on before going to bed..

Currently products [called 'perms' I suppose from 'permanent', though they are anything but permanent] used to straighten tightly curly hair don't contain lye. They haven't since the mid 1960s.

Still if you aren't careful, those perms still burn-or so I'm told..
****

PS: One of the by products of having a White roomate in college was that I learned that White women perm their hair to add curls while Black women perm their hair to straighten it.

Oh, the joys of multi-cultural living!!

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 10:27 PM

Ah - memories of the old Punch Up The Conk Show come floating back....

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Snuffy
Date: 15 Mar 05 - 09:05 AM

Unlike Richard, I have heard "neb" in Britain (South Pennines), both to refer to the nose itself, or in phrases like "have a neb at ...", in the same way that "nose" is used figuratively for the action of searching.

And the US/UK dictionary agrees on the meaning: conk sl n : nose, syn. hooter, neb.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: jimmyt
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 10:28 PM

Interesting stuff in the last few posts concerning neb and Red up. I always heard these Nib and RId as in "Don't be a nib-nose, and rid up your bedroom (or kitchen )" My family comes from 125 miles from Pittsburgh so it is interesting these are similar. People from southeastern Ohio also use such terms as Get out of my road instead of get out of my way.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 08:53 PM

shore Texans use langwidge! They are economical with it, too! They get one word to convey multiple concepts!

"I was out fer a drive across my raynch when my truck broke down. So I had to get out a raynch to fix it, but while I was doin' that, I raynched my arm and got all my hands all greasy, so's I had to raynch 'em off in the crick."

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 08:36 PM

Somehow recently I came on a link to this American-British/British-American Dictionary. I was going to post the link to an appropriate thread here, but didn't have time to find one. SO, today here 'tis, and when I google to find the above dictionary link, I find there's billions of 'em. So, no excuses now.

~ Becky in Tucson

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 06:29 PM

Texans use language?

I once had an Irish girlfriend, who used "neb" or "nib" (with no observable distinction) to refer to the nose. I've never heard it in native English.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 04:05 PM

Uncle_DaveO -

You are correct. Lady Jean's post didn't distinquish between which population of Pittsburghers she was referring to..

In my post I added additional information that makes that distinction. I did so because I believe that in a multi-racial/multi-ethnic society is not only valid but it is important and interesting to document differences in word usages & word meanings among peoples of different races & ethnicities.

You may be correct that the Yiddish set of terms, "nebish, nebesh" and so on, for "loser" has nothing to do with the Pittsburgh region's use of "neb" and "nebby."

I love etymology, but I'm barely in the first grade vis a vis the study of the origins & meanings of words and phrases. However, one of the first lessons that one learns in that field is that words don't have to be related just because they look very much alike and are pronounced the same or similarly.

So let me amend my post to say that it may be possible that the use of "neb" and "nebby" in possibly different ways and with possibly different meanings among Pittsburgh region's African American and
non-African American populations may come from the Yeddish word "nebish".

I'll then hand this question over to competent eytmologists for them to study, agree upon, and/or fight over.


Azizi

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 03:27 PM

....Jimmy cleesed me that groaters were coming and I was simply stonkered...so I had to perg around to Dunwizzie's for some cazzle and twiskits. I sure hope the ruggies are down on the debs tonight!



(well, that's what it feels like when I read some of the more 'local' posts from those who have had the language for 800-900 years...*grin*)

We poor colonials have a ways to go to get back to 'colorful'...ooops...'colourful'....except for Texans, who have an entire language subset to define their culture.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: robomatic
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 03:14 PM

lobscouse and spotted dog

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 02:48 PM

Azizi, Lady Jean didn't say black Pittsburghers, as to either of those usages.

Also, I have some question whether that Yiddish set of terms, "nebish, nebesh" and so on, for "loser", has anything to do with the Pittsburgh neb and nebby. At least the quotation you gave doesn't indicate that, and doesn't mention being nosy.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Azizi
Date: 14 Mar 05 - 09:16 AM

LadyJean wrote this in 2003:

"And then, course there are the regional dialects. Scots would know what a Pittsburgher meant if she said "redd up". But they*d be confused by the Pittsburgh definition of neb. Here, a neb is a snoop"

end of quote

On top of the differences between American English and other English, there are racial/ethnic differences within the same region and nation.

I've lived in Pittsburgh for almost 35 years, and I've never heard any African Americans [or non-African Americans for that matter] say "neb". But informally, we {African Americans} might say "nebby". When we use it "nebby" means "nosey" [minding somebody else's business when you should be minding your own] For example, "Get out of my bizness. Why you tryin to be so nebby?"

I have also heard "She's a nebby nose." But that seems to be used much less often than the word "nebby" itself.

Incidently, this word didn't originate among Black folks.

Tony Thorne's "The Dictionary of Contemporary Slang" [America, Great Britain, Australia, the Caribbean, and other English speaking places], 1990 has this offering:

"nebish, nebesh, nebech [noun]: A fool, an effectual, clumsy or pathetic person. The word entered English speech from Yiddish in which on of its meanings is a pitiful nonentity or 'loser'. The ultimate origin of the word is the Czech adjective neboby, mening unhappy, unfortunate, or diseased."

end of quote

So to end where I started, in Pittsburgh Black lingo, a person who minds someone else's business is a fool.

****

PS: I've never heard any African Americans in Pittsburgh {or any where else} say 'redd up'. I'm assuming it means "to clean house" [get a place ready for guests] but I'm not sure.

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: GUEST,Conclusion
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 04:13 AM

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: GUEST,Conclusion
Date: 27 Dec 04 - 04:13 AM

Subject: RE: BS: English To English Dictionary
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:42 AM

Music does manage to creep into BS threads every once in awhile, Steve.. :-)

Jerry