BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST,Long Dong
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 03:46 AM

Great to see an Irish thread. Keith seems to have it all to himself, YET AGAIN !

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 09 - 02:53 AM

Here is what Dan said about life in Kerry before the Easter rising.

he said that in his early youth, Kerry was peaceful until the 1916 Easter Rising.


Relations with the large British military garrison in Tralee were good, where a soldier from Lancashire who enjoyed music was welcomed to sing in the local pubs.

When one of Dan's own cousins who was in the British Army overstayed his home leave, two uncles were arrested after beating up a visiting military policeman inquiring as to his whereabouts.


But the injured soldier refused to give evidence against the two Kerrymen, saving them from certain jail and earning the respect of locals.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7026951.stm

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 05:34 PM

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/76950
Mr Keating said of his civil war opponents: "They were worse than the Black and Tans, and they committed some awful atrocities. In one week they murdered 19 people - comrades I knew only too well. They were just gone overnight."

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 04:00 PM

Noreen, I saw the film thanks to being sent a copy by Divis Sweeney, but it was some time ago.
I remember thinking that all British people portrayed were two dimensional brutes. Only the Irish had personalities and character.
When British people were killed they just went down like skittles, with no visible hurt or pain.
Like the Indians in old fashioned westerns.
I remember that they took an old IRA veteran to see it.
He said that the Free State army were worse than the Tans in their behaviour.
He refused to draw the pension he was entitled to from the irish government.
He sadly died a while back.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Amergin
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 01:48 PM

If you think the Movie In The Name of The Father was bad....read the book by Gerry Conlon.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Noreen
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 01:19 PM

Have you seen the film in question, Keith?

It did actually portray atrocities on both sides, as I am sure the Irish Times review you quoted from selectively, made clear (the link you provided no longer works unfortunately- copying the whole review would have been better).

I found it a very moving and upsetting film, at least in part because it showed the callousness engendered in everyone involved in the situation.

(((VirginiaTam)))

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 08:10 AM

Virginia, I could never live in the Britain as depicted in those and so many other films.
In the real world, fortunately, there is no such place.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 08 Feb 09 - 05:34 AM

I don't know why I went so mental last night about English injustice in that film. Do the same thing with films like Schindler's List and Dances with Wolves.   Every "Power" has done some injustice to someone or group.

Anyway I have been in weepy state for the last week over lost daughter. Damn. Can't really blame it on that either. It is now properly February isn't it?

My official SADS month.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: gnu
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 06:23 PM

So, it was him?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 07 Feb 09 - 06:14 PM

ok... so I don't want to start a new thread but I just got to scream some where.

My darling lovely English (very left wing) husband keeps getting these films and I sit and watch. And innocent little yank I am repeatedly appalled at how inhumane and horrid English power has been not just to the Irish (Wind the Shakes the Barley) and the Scots (Brave Heart) but even to their own in films like Billiy Elliot and Kes.

I just saw In the Name of the Father for the first time. I was shaking and gasping with weeping. I was so angry I kept pushing away my lovely partner who was only trying to comfort me. He is English and bloody well convenient for me to take my rage out on, poor sod.

I have a headache now. How the hell am I going to sleep tonight?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 02:24 PM

ok, gladly!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 11:48 AM

No Paul, you would be welcome as long as you dropped the buggering bit !

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 11:29 AM

Ow! HARSH!

I'm sure both you & he would soon be complaining about being only NEXT DOOR to the Village Idiot...

*G*

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 11:28 AM

Now, about that buggering......

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 11:25 AM

Serves you bloody right for being rude about having me and Sweeney for neighbours.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 10:57 AM

*slinks off, shamefaced*

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 10:56 AM

Oh God, yes I AM being thick....NOW I see it! *ROFL*

Isnt it typical.... that its only when you have irredeemably damned yourself, you see how to have avoided it...*LOL*

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 01 Aug 06 - 10:54 AM

I'll be buggered if I can understand how you count them....maybe I'm being thick, but cant see it!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 05:37 PM

300!
where were you all?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:30 PM

Like that one Dave, never heard it before.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 02:21 PM

Yes Dave, also akvavit (Swedish, not sure of spelling)

wr

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 11:12 AM

You're not so slim yourself:-D

Eeeeh. The old ones are the old ones...

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:54 AM

It's your round Dave!

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:29 AM

You are indeed quite right weerover - I didn't believe it though. Just miss-spelled it. Probably after taking some..;-)

Incidentaly did you know that the original uisge beatha is phoneticaly very similar to eau de vie? French for water of life or, you've guessed it, Brandy! (Or is it Brandey?)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:22 AM

That last post was mine, don't know why I've lost my tag.

wr

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 10:19 AM

A couple of points for clarification.

Dave the Gnome believes Scotch is "whiskey": it isn't, it's whisky.

Guest, Kenny reckons all Irish men hate the "Scotch". I have spent many holidays on the west coast of Ireland and have been made to feel very welcome everywhere, albeit with a guitar under my arm rather than a firearm. I happen to be a Scot with an accent which clearly identifies me as such.

wr

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:45 AM

Mr Keating does not say that his Civil War opponents were worse because they had more information.
He says that they committed more atrocities then the Tans did.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:27 AM

Those who fought in the Civil War had much more information on those who they were fighting. Arms dumps were uncovered daily because a few years earlier the same ones who found them had filled them.

My grandfather fought the Tans and was a republican in the Civil war and served a jail sentence. He said the Civil War was brutal because the enemy were so well informed and knew everyone. The Tans didn't and tried to hammer information out of people who knew nothing.

I found in my reading of the accounts of both, the period the Tans were here was a lot worse for the innocent civilian population. The IRA never shot Priests either.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:06 AM

Sorry, here is the link to that piece.
Yes I have quoted selectively.
http://vancouver.indymedia.org/?q=en/node/784

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 07:01 AM

This piece gives this review from The Irish Times.
* IRISH TIMES

Thoughtful, powerful and moving Irish political drama, it is,
unsurprisingly, politically loaded. The Black and Tans are depicted as callous, belligerent oppressors, and there is, perhaps, one scene too many to emphasise their sadism.

The piece also has some fascinting memories from a Mr. Keating who fought against the Tans and in the Civil War. He says that his opponents in the Civil War were much worse than the Tans.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 05:45 AM

Dave, had a Silverwing GL500 early 1980's. Then went to BMW R80RT then Honda ST1100 Pan European, then GL1500 Goldwing now onto BMW again. The CX 500 was a great bike once you got the tappets set ! Cam chain is a big problem with them, should change it as when it goes so does your engine. Get her on the road and will meet you at the docks !

Excellent post Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:58 AM

I think Montgomery complained that the troops were not "pursuing him with enough enthusiasm".

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:55 AM

Very good post, Jim. I must say I had half an idea that was the truth but I had never realy formulated the thought properly. Thanks for doing it for me:-)

Didn't know you were a biker, Divis! Makes me want to get the old CX500 going again - Should only need HT leads and Oil but it has been stood there for 2 years:-( It is the custom model but the same engine and running gear that was the Silver Wing. Love to get it over to Ireland but I may wait till I win the lottery and can buy that Harley V-Rod VRSE :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 06 - 04:12 AM

There can be no comparison between the behaviour of the Black and Tans and that of the rebels during the Irish War For Independence (that's what it was folks!). On the one hand you had a badly armed, poorly trained group of fighters carrying out a guerrilla campaign in order, as they saw it, to free their country; on the other there were the armed representatives of the most powerful nation on earth acting under the orders of their government to subdue the Irish people by whatever means necessary. One of the British military leaders at the time, later to become Montgomery of Alamein, complained that the troops were not "pursuing their orders with enough enthusiasm".
In such circumstances it would be more than a little naïve to expect the opposing sides to shake hands after a hard days fighting and say, "Good, clean fight chaps, same time tomorrow".
Any judgment of the war must be based on whether you believe the Irish were entitled to fight for their independence, nothing more or less.
If there was anything missing from Loach's film, it was the fact that the brutality depicted was taking place all over Ireland and it was officially sanctioned and not just the work of a handful of British thugs.
About ten years ago the BBC put on a play called 'All Around The Empire Room' which was a fictionalised account of a series of meetings between Lloyd George and Michael Collins in order to agree the terms of the treaty. It opened with the narrator saying something like, "In 1922 a treaty for the independence of Ireland was signed. Between that time and this, every bomb exploded, every bullet fired, every man woman and child killed or maimed in the name of Irish freedom, can be traced directly back to a series of meetings that took place at number ten Downing Street at that time".
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:14 PM

*nods* So I hear, I used to have a mate who was from Galway.... cant recall exactly where though.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:09 PM

Well that's the spot for you, Music, pubs and craic great in Galway

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:15 PM

Well, WHEN I get there, not IF, it'll likely be to wherever friends are going, as I know a few people who, assuming they still do regularly go, tend to stay somewhere, & soak up the crack, rather than travelling & seeing scenery per se.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:09 PM

Paul if you do, head to the West coast it's beautiful. I covered every county on my 1500 Goldwing, many great memories, but the West Coast from Achill Island, Westport down to Cliffton really does it for me. Arklow and Wicklow also great. Getting a bit pricey I found.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:04 PM

I bet...envy you that. Been saying for a long while that I WILL get to see Ireland one day.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 07:01 PM

Do like my seafood Paul. Was over on West coast of Ireland recently and the seafood was heaven.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:56 PM

Bah...it will be hundreds of years before we live that down...

...& ok, chips do seem very popular, but there have been no fish here since...ooooh...1974 I think..

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:51 PM

Good point Paul, mine is very big! Never been to Hull, funny how I get this stereotype image of John Prescott when I think of Hull.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:48 PM

Dunno really..depends how big one's mouth is...*G*

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:41 PM

Now isn't that a big mouthful !

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:38 PM

Not to worry if you have...I'm sure you can fashion your own events in your mind to support your beliefs, even if they didnt actually happen, during your absence.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Divis Sweeney
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:36 PM

Hi folks just back. Have I missed anything ?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 08:41 AM

I'm not ure what youre trying to say here Guest (though thats hardly uncommon with many posts with 'Guest' beside them is it....)

Are you saying that to you, Keith is suggesting that people should be ENTERTAINED by a film set n Ireland, in the era in which the Tans are doing those things? In effect that you think Keith is suggesting that some people would/should be entertained by a film portrayal of some of the things the Tans did (whether the things you have listed above appear in it or not, I dont now).

Maybe you are accusing the film of bias (of the opposite slant to Keith of course) in that it doesnt show those things you have listed above?

Are you claiming that only those facts you have listed are true about the Tans, & no others (no other facts, I mean) & that your list is completely exhaustive?

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 06:17 AM

Guest 4.32
like Loach, you were selective in what you chose to show.
The COMPLETE first sentence of your quote from my post is

"Not that what it portrays is not true, just that it is selective in what it shows and therefor unbalanced and biased."

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 04:32 AM

True Facts.
Members of the Black and tans gained a reputation for brutality and were not subject to discipline in their time in Ireland. This resulted in many murders of the civilian population. The Black and Tans burned and sacked many small towns and villages in Ireland, beginning with Tuam in county Galway in July 1920 and also including Trim, Balbriggan, Thurles and Templemore amongst many others. In November 1920, the Tans "besieged" Tralee. They closed all the businesses in the town and did not let any food in for a week. In addition they shot dead three local people. On the 14th of November, the Tans abducted and murdered a Catholic priest, Fr. Michael Griffin, in Galway. His body was found in a bog in Barna a week later. Most spectacularly of all, the Black and Tans sacked Cork city, on the night 11th of December 1920, the centre of which was burned out - destroying over 300 buildings. They also shot dead nine civilians in the city that night.These are the true facts.

Keiths Facts.
Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'

From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 29 Jul 06 - 10:04 AM

it is selective in what it shows and therefor unbalanced and biased.
But films are not history texts.
People should not go to the cinema to be educated, only entertained.
Enjoy the film,
Keith.

Subject: RE: BS: Ban on 'The Wind That Shakes The Barley'
From: Paul from Hull
Date: 30 Jul 06 - 02:13 AM

*LOL*