BS: Muslim men and white girls - again

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 05:15 AM

I think you are missing the point, Jim. By your own figures there are 3,000,000 Moslems and 200 of them have been convicted of paedpilia. That makes the ratio of 'normal' Moslems to convicted paedophile
Moslems 15,000 to 1. Exceedingly low indeed. I am assuming that the 200 convictions in in a set period - A year maybe? Or is it since time began?


Anyway, what is the ration amongst the non-Moslem population? There are 60,000,000 people on this island. If the ration was the same we can extrapolate thatthere should be 35.something times more convicted paedophiles of a non-Moslem extraction - More than 7000. Is that the case? I didn't know so I did a quick search.

The simplest statement I found was in the Daily Mirror and said -

Ministry of Justice figures show in 2005, 1,363 people were convicted of sex abuse on youngsters but it was up to 2,135 last year.


Now, allowing an increase in the last few years lets say that 135 were Moslem and the remaining 2000 were not. That means that the proportion in the non-Moslem demographic is 57,000,000 to 2000 or, 27,500 to 1 - A damn sight fewer than 15,000 to 1!

Now, I will be the first to admit that this argument could be wrong. My figures could be up the wall for umpteen reasons and I would love someone to prove me wrong. Can anyone do that? If so, we can put this thread to bed. But, sadly, if not then there does indeed seem to be cause for concern.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 04:59 AM

Jim.
When you posted about priests abusing children, you never argued that it was not significant because most priests were not involved.

Also, you never argued that it was not significant because most child abuse was committed by non-priests.

There was a real issue about priests abusing children.
There is a real issue here.
Why do you deny an obvious truth?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 04:50 AM

'THERE IS NO PROVEN RACIAL OR CULTURAL REASON FOR THE ACTIONS OF LESS THAN 200 CRIMINALS – IF THERE WAS, EVERY MUSLIM IN BRITAIN (3,000,000 OF THEM) WOULD BE A SUSPECT..
These threads lower this forum to the level of those sites which have been set up specifically to target ethnic minorities'

Jim - you are the one who is trying to draw a simplistic conclusion to a complex issue. No one has said the answers are straightforward. What we are saying is - Houston, we have a problem....covering you ears up, isn't going to make it disappear.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 04:44 AM

cool.I am sure if we were face to face we would agree on more than you might think,and you may even entertain the thought i might have a point.Gl

J.mc

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 04:40 AM

"Jim, do you really not find this crime horrible?"
Yes, I do find the constant attempts to smear entire ethnic groups as sexual perverts utterly disgusting because of the actions of a handful of criminals (less than 200 convictions) – yet here we are again with the makings of yet another 'Muslim prejudice' thread.
Virtually everybody who has worked with these young women have stated that there are no racial conclusions to be drawn from these (handful of) crimes: police, judiciary social workers, ex – Home Secretaries.
One brain-dead even doctored his cut-n-paste to remove the latter's having said so, and went on to claim that "all British male Pakistanis were culturally implanted" to tend them towards having underage sex – how sick can you get?
The survey systematically carried out last year warned against drawing racial or cultural conclusions from these events, based on the available and extremely limited evidence, but agenda-driven prats continue t make these claims.
But that's not what you mean, is it?
Of course I find such crimes horrible, and to use them to project a racist message not only perpetuates them, but it abuses these young victims all over again just as they have already been abused.   
THERE IS NO PROVEN RACIAL OR CULTURAL REASON FOR THE ACTIONS OF LESS THAN 200 CRIMINALS – IF THERE WAS, EVERY MUSLIM IN BRITAIN (3,000,000 OF THEM) WOULD BE A SUSPECT..
These threads lower this forum to the level of those sites which have been set up specifically to target ethnic minorities, but I have no doubt that that this will not deter these people – so I'll leave you to it
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 04:24 AM

Likewise, wouldn't wish to give offence.

If you say, its all in my head, lets hope you're right. Then it won't bother anyone else, will it?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 03:54 AM

Oh and because of the crap inflicted on us from birth we all have "childhood issues" labels to drop and discard/understand. ps Sorry for minor thread jack.Ignore at your leisure.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 03:19 AM

The reptilian brain is an ancient beast. It was developed over 100 million years ago. The higher brain or the neocortex came along a mere 40,000 years ago. So, when the reptilian brain is on alert, it's pretty hard for a youngster like our neocortex to tell a 100 million year old brain to behave!2

One of the insights we've learned from body psychotherapy is that hardship in counseling is needlessly provoked if the reptilian brain isn't calmed down first. That is, it's very difficult to dig into our psyche (e.g. and explore childhood issues) when the reptilian brain is calling the shots.

However, when the nervous system is regulated and balanced, it far easier to move through our emotions."

Google it there is loads of material to educate ourselves this is the answer,teaching kids how to center themselves feel good about the world and be emotionally stable,then negative traits thoughts don't happen.Look at those in the world who are causing death and misery they are trapped in this part of their brain permanent angst mild psychosis.Once someone has felt the brain work to its full potential (all religion tries to deliver this imo) you would find it almost impossible to do/think harm to others.Will the globe ever have the will to get this done,doubt it but at least it is now common knowledge that this is the problem so i am hopeful,

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 02:49 AM

Children do see race and difference for instance but it does not matter.They see the diff accept it and there is no problem.Society teaches the hate.Human irrational fears are the real enemy and there are ways to address that and they can be taught/learned.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 02:36 AM

sorry cnt....world is yours.I'm saying it is a brain problem science agrees anything else is irrelevant.I reread what i typed yesterday looks a bit snippy but was not my intention.Just imo those with your attitude stop us moving on and time for a whole new approach as the old ways are not going to work anymore.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 02:31 AM

Solutions Mr Whittle, the scary world you lot try to shove on the rest of us does not exist it is your fear it is in your head.Yes we do have nutters from all demographics but your view of the

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 10:07 PM

Al, I'd back you up anywhere, anytime, no questions asked.

Your email still the same?

BM

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 07:24 PM

Sadly what I say is true. If we were a big country like America. I daresay we could be like them - live with droves of serial killers and gun nuts and they would not become too apparent.

Or if we were a lightly populated country like Ireland - we could have victims of sexual abuse in every woodshed, and still keep up a semblance of normality.

But we don't. We live in a very overcrowded little island. Shoulder to shoulder, and there have to be ground rules. Unlike France and Spain, where they pass regulations about everything and police none of it, in England every parking ticket is an existential dilemma.

but that's the way we like it. Martin Carthy can bang on about the Dowie Dens of Yarrow - we English relate to Elvis , Jim Reeves and the Beatles, Acker Bilk ,the Sex Pistols and Kylie. We're a mongrel nation. And if someone shits in our sleeping place - they need a tug on the lead.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,999
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 06:59 PM

"We have to get to the bottom of it . . ."

Brings to mind a comment by Oscar Wilde.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 03:32 PM

Jim, do you really not find this crime horrible?

Would it make a difference if some of the vulnerable, love starved mites initially consented?
Do Police excuses for not acting to protect sex trafficked children make a difference to the horror of it?
Are you devoid of human compassion Jim?

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 03:24 PM

.'The difference between me and you Mr Teacher is that i know how ignorant i am you on the other hand 8).The smileys were because i knew comments like yours would come so you have proven my concern true heh'

Mt name is Mr Whittle. Mr Teacher makes whisky. Highland Cream. There are many differences between us., Guest. The first is that I givemy name out freely and i am not ashamed of my honestly held opinions.

I daresay Jim that if we had the pedigree of sexual hypocrisy of your adopted country - we would be trying to sweep this one under the carpet for a quiet life. there's no future in that though. Not on an overcrowded island like this. We have to get to the bottom of it and sort it out.

They want government grants for their faith schools. We have to be sure that they;re not disseminating attitudes of this nature.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 03:22 PM

"but this uniquely horrible crime"n
Far from unique and so "horrible" that the N of England police refused to follow up reports because the sex was "consentual

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 02:39 PM

one particular ethic group, as if they are the only ones doing it.
It may look wrong to you in US, but this uniquely horrible crime in UK does appear to mainly involve one ethnic group.
Here is a BBC report on the latest case currently being tried.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-21059681

Here is some historical perspective.
http://journalisted.com/andrew-norfolk?allarticles=yes

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 12:57 PM

I think the point is worth making that some people here in UK wonder if the Police hesitate to prosecute Muslim offenders for fear of provoking either a white racist backlash or a Muslim fundamentalist uprising. In this particular situation one can see that prosecution, conviction and sentencing do happen. So the fact that the sexual predators and groomers were Asian Muslims is quite pertinent. Some people also fear that Asian Muslims regard the white inhabitants of UK as inferior morally and that therefore their 'loose women' (no matter how young) are fair game. I hasten to add that I don't hold either of these views.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 12:48 PM

Sexual Slavery happens all over the world, with all sorts of ethnic combinations. Wikipedia entry.

The San Francisco Chronicle did a series on this subject that I read at the time it came out - it was a real eye-opener, but I haven't heard a lot about the subject here in the U.S. since then. But that doesn't mean it stopped, that just means it isn't being used as a story to bludgeon one particular ethic group, as if they are the only ones doing it. Your pique at the prospect of men grooming girls for sexual slavery is very selective.

Such scrupulous attention to Pakistan/Muslim activity and not lamenting all of the others doing it tells me you've targeted this group in a bigotted manner.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 07:20 AM

"As someone whose natural tendency is to be a "bleeding heart liberals who support all things minority" I don't think that is a true parallel, leveller."

I rather think that depends on the OP's intention.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 07:16 AM

Most teachers (along with most writers, artists, musicians, doctors, plumbers etc) are in it to earn a living. Idealism is a nice by product, but it doesn't always pan out.

Sometimes the most idealistic are the worst practicioners - just the way it rolls.""
    Must say was expecting more,from a Teacher too.Research the brain and your body its there,science will get you there.The difference between me and you Mr Teacher is that i know how ignorant i am you on the other hand 8).The smileys were because i knew comments like yours would come so you have proven my concern true heh
   Anyway me done as Mr Carroll post nails it nicely in my opinion.GL

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 07:16 AM

Same answer as before, Jim. We want to reduce the incidences of this crime. If we can identify any group that can influence that reduction, we should do so. It is not in my mind anything to do with labelling the crime but is all about looking for leaders who can assist in preventing it. So of your categories 'Christian' might have some value, because we could in principle persuade the various leaders to put pressure on their subordinates to do something to reduce it. There are no relevant leaders for 'white' or 'Anglo-Saxon' that I can see. For 'British' you have Parliament in general, so that is more or less covered, at least in theory.

Putting labels on anything has no inherent value. It is how you then use the label that matters, and in particular whether the label enhances your understanding of the issues or makes you ignore aspects of it. So I don't have any issue with saying that this crime is more common amongst the XXX-group than elsewhere; but I have a serious problem if that is taken as we need only address the XXX portion.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Musket sans cookie
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 07:09 AM

The white slave trade here in The UK is almost exclusively Eastern European, and then mainly Albanian nationals owning and running the massage parlours the young women and girls are tied to.

If we bring religious aspects into this debate we have to consider these people class themselves as Muslims. Or coptic Christians or cstholicd. Truth is they are none and neither.   The rapists in this Oxford case on the other hand may well genuinely believe infidels can be abused.

Either way the point is that the law is the law and contrary to the waffle of clerics of all persuasions, morals transcend religion and ignorance of the law is no excuse.   If you don't understand that all people have equal rights and that includes young girls, you are a danger to society and we have prisons to deal with you. Ironically you may find out what it is like to be on the receiving end once you get there.

Comparing cultures isn't helpful. You don't have to be a repressed Pakistani English man to abuse vulnerable people. You just have to be of a mind with opportunities. ..

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 07:03 AM

Sorry to interrupt yet another 'hatefest'
In context;
At the last count (2110) there were about 3,000,000 Muslims in Britain
If this is a "Muslim" problem why have only less than 200 Muslims nationwide been implicated in legal proceedings, and where does that leave the indigenous population in relation to paedophilia in general (overwhelmingly an indigenous practice) – can this be described as a white, Anglo-Saxon, British, Christian crime and if not, why not
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 06:49 AM

Can stating a fact, however inflamatory, be bigotry?

Yes it can, if the perpetrator misuses context in a deliberately tendentious manner.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 06:43 AM

Maybe OP mentioned it out of a sense of public duty. Attention NEEDS to be drawn to it. the public need to made aware. The intending perpertrators need to know that their card is marked.

A cover up is not on.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 06:42 AM

As someone whose natural tendency is to be a "bleeding heart liberals who support all things minority" I don't think that is a true parallel, leveller. If it is the case that any one group shows a higher tendendency to unacceptable behaviour than another (be it Muslim, Roman Catholic clergy or anyone else), then it it perfectly proper to identify it and put pressure on the leaders of that group to distance themselves from it and for them to take action to stress to their followers it is abhorrent. That's not in itself racist/prejudiced. On the other hand to present the information in a way that implies it is widespread amongst Muslims, Catholic priests or whoever, is racist/prejudiced.

In the case of Jimmy Savile there is not the slightest evidence that being a white Roman Catholic is any more relevant than being a DJ, or a BBC-sanctioned entertainer, or any of many other possible groupings. Now I don't have any of the figures necessary to say whether the OP's assertion is correct in saying this is more common with Muslim prepetrators than any other group, but it seems a perfectly reasonable thing to analyse the court records and see if there is any statistical significance to the claim and if so to act upon it.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 06:33 AM

Most teachers (along with most writers, artists, musicians, doctors, plumbers etc) are in it to earn a living. Idealism is a nice by product, but it doesn't always pan out.

Sometimes the most idealistic are the worst practicioners - just the way it rolls.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 06:26 AM

I agree with John P. Why is the OP making a particular point about the abusers' religion or race? I don't recall Saville being described as a white Roman Catholic pervert.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 06:19 AM

Most teachers are in it for the wrong reasons and the job is a nightmare i agree,should be a vocation.Majority of my Teachers were mildly angry repressed sad individuals.All the problems we have in society including the topic of this thread are as a result of not understanding how our bodies should work.Go research this ,it is never going to go away until we get over ourselves and understand it.Do the work as the Woman above suggests and to do that most ppl need to educate themselves about their brain and what their full potential is. Enlightenment should be understood more and how it is not that big a deal that each of us should attain it in a lifetime,i hate the word myself meaningless in this day and age.Nothing to fear though it should happen naturally then we would not have to protect our kids from animals.
      Re; the animals,very few about that are that diseased, as tragic as this is it is just one of the many symptoms of our failure to understand our bodies/brains.We can train it out of people early and teach them to identify harmful thought patterns.Smileys were because trying to dodge any irrelevant nonsense,but point taken.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 05:47 AM

What's this 8 business?
Opinion 8
Internet 8

A weird contribution to the debate - Guest. i doubt the grooming gangs are in search of spiritual enlightenment. Pebbles notwithstanding.

Been a teacher myself. most teachers are good eggs. Just in an impossible situation. Education isn't a sure and certain way to the good life - as it appeared to my generation of parents. the kids can see that.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 05:11 AM

The education system holds very little for them. For the main part , it is there to reassure them that they are stupid, not university material. That is the Keith Joseph school of tory contribution to the situation. On the other hand these poor children are showered with images of the glamorous consequences of being sexually desirable from the TV."
My daughter is at uni in Cambridge and no change to the crap she has to navigate from peers and some "teachers" all aspects of society is damaged.It is up to us as parents to educate our children the edu system is a joke and useless just creates frightened slaves and robots in the main, scary stuff.MY kids have been trying to engage teachers for years but most teachers are in the wrong job,not up to it because of their brain handicap.We should be rearing our children flag-less and race-less enabling them to grow emotionally and spiritually without any ridiculous medieval baggage.I grew up on a council estate but have and do mix with the "knighted" class, and filth knows no bounds.The reptilian part of the brain is the problem it drives society.
      The child sex prob in my town has been sickening over the years with the suicides of perpetrators and murder of victims.Some rings were going for decades..all Caucasian.Not a prob specifically to attach to one of the labels it is a human brain prob, just be thankful where we are on the damaged scale and not driven like these sick diseased half life's.Opinion mine 8)

Some Buddhists if i remember correctly roll a stone/pebble on the base of the spine to start the kundalini/spiritual exp.Some Catholic Occultist priests bugger boys of a certain age to do the same,its spiritual rape.These sick bastards filth in turn attracts others who do it just for their own sick personal pleasure. I hope this is not in part what is happening in the Muslim community.

ps no never been dog collar buggerd myself.Know how some minds might work heh love the old tinternet 8)

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: akenaton
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 03:43 AM

Exactly so Al....very well said.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 03:24 AM

SRS

Here in England a lot of our old industries are going. There are a lot of families in which there is no tradition of education. The children in these damilies are frequently very deprived and unsophisticated, and vulnerable - very vulnerable.

The education system holds very little for them. For the main part , it is there to reassure them that they are stupid, not university material. That is the Keith Joseph school of tory contribution to the situation. On the other hand these poor children are showered with images of the glamorous consequences of being sexually desirable from the TV.

Now - the present siuation is that a crime which is appearing with sickening regularity before English courts concerns networks of Asian men. Young good looking Asian boys seduce these undervalued children with treats and romantic courtship. The young girls are lured into situations where they are raped, given to older Asian men for sex, blackmailed into submitting to unwanted sexual acts.

This is happening. The reasons it is happening are (as you can see) many and complex. But its got to stop. And men who are offered sex in this fashion must get to understand if they accept it, that they are putting themselves outside of respectable society. Outside of the law. They should in fact, report anyone whom they hear of. doing it.

Calling people bigots who say that this is happening and is unacceptable - well its only playing into the real racists and bigots hands.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 19 Jan 13 - 03:00 AM

SRS, Akeneaton's statement that you quote above is factually correct, except that the victims are almost excusively white but not totally.
There have been Sikh and Hindu victims.
He was describing a particular type of crime here in UK.
Can stating a fact, however inflamatory, be bigotry?

BM's statement about the Oxford gang.
They have not been convicted and deny the accusations.
The accusations by the alleged child victims justify his statement if proved true.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 11:40 PM

John P wrote:
It seems to me that whether or not someone is a Muslim has very little to do with whether or not they are rapists or sexual abusers in other ways. There are people who act in these evil ways from all cultures and all socio-economic levels. There are good and decent Christians, Muslims, Asians, Africans, Americans, white people and people of color. And there are abusive Christians, Muslims, etc.

"The Other" Brian May wrote:
Fact is, I am incredibly heartened by the majority of your responses above. I also agree that the solution has to come from ALL men. That said, the radical Muslims seem to be more than happy to denigrate all women, Muslim or not. These 'people' - especially the latest group on trial in Oxford are scum and I am only glad that 'we' are beginning to bring them to book. Their behaviour is outrageous, but is fostered by their belief that these girls don't matter - as human beings, that they're only on this earth to satisfy any lust that they wish to exhibit.

Akenatan chimed in:
John P is the worst kind of "liberal"....a silencer.
Men of all nationalities are capable of the rape and prostitution of young girls, but these gangs are almost exclusively Pakistani Muslim and their victims white British girls, never Muslim girls!....But this must never be said... according to Mr P.

It's pretty clear here where the bigotry lies - and it isn't with John P.; Brian and Ake see what they want to see.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 08:01 PM

It's the same the whole world over:

There once was a student of John's,
Who wanted to Bugger the swans,
Said the loyal head porter,
Sir, take my daughter,
Them swans is reserved for the Dons.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,DDT
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 06:41 PM

I have been to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Egypt and the UAE and I have to say that the men in this region of the world are so sexually repressed that they have the sexual maturity of a 6-year-old. And you see a lot of older men in positions of power such as clerics with young men/older boys for lovers. These clerics rarely go anywhere where they aren't accompanied by these boys--mostly teens (some done up to look like girls). That is about the only steady sex boys of that age have any hope of getting in the Arab world because they are kept strictly segregated from girls. That's why so many of these guys so willingly become suicide bombers. They are so sexually repressed that they are full of rage and are driven insane by it. What do they blow themselves up for? 72 virgins (houris) in Paradise. They would willingly kill and die for a bit of nookie and the men that manipulate them into these acts are telling them at the same time that sex between a boy and a girl is a sin against Allah. It's ok to fuck your brains out in heaven but not on earth. I know many people here are going to call me a bigot and maybe if I hadn't been there myself I'd do the same. But I've been there.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: akenaton
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 06:12 PM

John P is the worst kind of "liberal"....a silencer.
Men of all nationalities are capable of the rape and prostitution of young girls, but these gangs are almost exclusively Pakistani Muslim and their victims white British girls, never Muslim girls!....But this must never be said... according to Mr P.
Common sense tells us that these figures are slightly more than a coincidence, and may be more to do with the cultural attitude of young Muslim men to the female children of "infidels"

The mantra of Mr P and his ilk is to silence truth, whether it be the criminal activity of some cultural minorities, or the horrific sexual health statistics of male homosexuals.

Shhhh.....dont tell the children.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Brian May
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 05:04 PM

Steve,

Agreed reference Jimmy Savile.

Thanks for applying your incisive and razor-sharp intellect to this discussion - it's made a real difference.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 01:43 PM

I don't blame it, frankly.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Brian May
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 11:43 AM

This software is not holding my cookie - sorry for that.

Brian

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 11:42 AM

Akenaton - your first post - thank you, that's exactly what I mean.

I find this kind of behaviour from ANYBODY repugnant, I am married to a wonderful woman and have two cracking daughters and I abhor even the thought that someone could regard them in any way as some form of second-class citizen.

What has galled me for ages is the additional leeway that has been allowed for ethnic groups such as Muslim men in this country (UK) in particular, because 'society' was unwilling to grasp the nettle and see what is real.

Fact is, I am incredibly heartened by the majority of your responses above. I also agree that the solution has to come from ALL men. That said, the radical Muslims seem to be more than happy to denigrate all women, Muslim or not. These 'people' - especially the latest group on trial in Oxford are scum and I am only glad that 'we' are beginning to bring them to book. Their behaviour is outrageous, but is fostered by their belief that these girls don't matter - as human beings, that they're only on this earth to satisfy any lust that they wish to exhibit.

I recommend physical/chemical castration to anyone black, pink, white, brown or any other combination of rainbow colours that is proven to treat human beings, but especially young girls this way.

Perhaps that IS radical, but at least there would be some sanction instead of 3 meals a day, central heating, free medication and a generally easy life paid for by the community that they treat with such contempt.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: John P
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 10:33 AM

It seems to me that whether or not someone is a Muslim has very little to do with whether or not they are rapists or sexual abusers in other ways. There are people who act in these evil ways from all cultures and all socio-economic levels. There are good and decent Christians, Muslims, Asians, Africans, Americans, white people and people of color. And there are abusive Christians, Muslims, etc. etc. Since I know a lot more white men than not, the people I come into contact with who target specific groups for rape are mostly white men.

Making this be about Muslims as a group (or Catholic priests, or Asian men, or black gang members, or whatever) is narrowing the definition of the problem, which encourages not looking at the whole situation. It is also, sadly, quite a display of bigotry. All the Muslim men, Asian men, and priests I actually know are decent, loving people who would never consider inflicting themselves on others in this way. As soon as we say "this is done by Muslim men" we are saying that all Muslim men do these things and that is a grave injustice to all the Muslim men who don't behave badly. The problem is that there are people who are willing to rape or otherwise abuse other people, not which ethnicities they are members of.

I think there is something to be said for encouraging governments that promote this type of activity to become more civilized. In the USA, we didn't really get everyone acting better toward black people and women until we forced our government to enact laws making discrimination against these groups illegal, and to generally promote better behavior as a cultural norm. We still have laws against homosexuals, and that is part of the reason that bigotry against homosexuals is still as acceptable as it is. Muslim men who rape girls are guilty as individuals, and the governments that have laws that encourage rapacious behavior are guilty as law-making and enforcing organizations, but whether or not someone is Muslim has very little to do with it.

I would prefer it if we talked about individuals who are rapists and governments who encourage it, rather than about entire nationalities or religions.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Musket
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 09:03 AM

Before anybody lets Ms Cornish sidetrack this any further..

This is about a particular problem where people of one culture see people of other cultures as being inferior. Look at the testimony of the family member women of some of those convicted in the Rochdale and Rotherham cases. They too blame the victims and used the case as showing their culture to be superior to the culture of the victims.

It is not about too many men seeing too many women as objects. it is about people believing women from cultures different to the ones they associate themselves with, (I hesitate to call them Muslims, as that insults Muslims) as being sub human and therefore somehow acceptable as objects.

I don't know what the answer is. If a woman likes to dress up and feel good about herself and if that is appreciated by the men she is in the company of, it has nothing to do with GROLIES or anybody else. This issue will not be addressed by asking women to throw away their nice little red dress and Jimmy Choos and wear a potato sack.   

The fact that, like the late Jake Thackray, I love a good bum on a woman, it makes my day.. Issues such as this don't change my stance. Oh, and if you want to capture the public imagination with a crusade, find a sexy way of marketing it. it is the only way to succeed.

Yes, sex sells. Yes, women find ways of attracting men. Yes, men fall for it. Got fuck all to do with this issue. This is about a very specific evil and shouldn't be trivialised by comparing it to the levers pulled to sell products.   Marketing doesn't invent sex as an aid, it merely uses the existing tool...

I'm reminded of a throwaway line in a Spike Milligan novel where the magistrate fines someone for having sex in a shop doorway. As they leave the dock, they shout, "Fine all you like, you'll never stop fucking in Catford." Quite.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 09:03 AM

Akenaton, a very good point. I read about the girl of 13 who fell/jumped to her death after young men had abused her and videoed the sex acts they performed on her. According to several different sources, it's common in schools for teenage girls to be pressured into sending porno-style pics and videos via their phones to lads who then show them around like sick trophies. Parents seem to allow their children (and they are, in spite of physical maturity, still children)to do what they like when they like and with no supervision or guidance. I wonder if the parents themselves had the same kind of lack of care during their own youth. Probably. Young predatory and sexually-aroused men will target easy prey such as the badly-parented badly-supervised and neglected young girls who may be drinking and/or taking drugs. And bullying by other girls adds pressure to conform. The Spice Girls IMV are victims of the same hype and current attitude. Celebrity worship has a lot to answer for. Let's hope as Dave says that things will change.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 09:01 AM

Sex is good and to be encouraged. Coercion is bad and should not be. Regrettably it is the wellspring of capitalism as well as many societies. I am not aware of any coercive matriarchies at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 08:33 AM

Surprisingly enough I agree with most of what Liz says. But there is one sticking point -

The Solution to this HAS to come from The Men themselves....

The solution CANNOT come from 'men' alone it can only come from those in power, regardless of sex, colour or creed. What most people fail to realise is that we are ALL downtrodden by those who run the world - And that is not always politicians BTW, they are often just the mouthpieces.

I absolutely hate the way sex is used to sell product but while the powers are making enough money to stay there, that is how it will be. BTW - It is not just women that are seen as sex objects - Never seen the coke ads? Or the Levis ads? But I will admit that women are used far more. Mind you - how much of that is woman driven? I am always reminded of the Spice Girls in these discussions. Very little talent but mega-hype. Girl Power? Crap. Porn power maybe - but did anyone make themn do it?

Anyway - I know you are going to say that us ordinary people need to rise up and show the powers that we do not like it. But unfortunately there are enough people willing to fit into their demographic patterns and they will continue to pander to whatever sells their product. Sorry, but that is just a fact of life. At least it is at the moment. In time it will change. But it will be a slow process and no amount of screaming, shouting, wailing or hand-wringing will make it happen sooner. It is good old evolution that will do it in the end.

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Muslim men and white girls - again
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 18 Jan 13 - 08:21 AM

Lizzie:
Women will NEVER stop this on their own.

The Solution to this HAS to come from The Men themselves..

You seem to be arguing that women are inferior as they cannot do this, they need men to do it for them.

I hope I've misunderstood you!